Breaking down “The Heist” Plot Archetype - Mistborn, Ocean’s 11, and The Italian Job

[@dungeoneering1974]

I never get tired of hearing Brandon explain his craft.

[@mikeoncampus]

I respect the hell out of this guy: super successful writer that shares all of this stuff for free.

[@Mispelisfav]

I have created my own kind of plot for a love story, I call it the "I love Brandon Sanderson plot"

[@Joe-mz6ez]

Hah! Don't we all?

[@Mispelisfav]

@@Joe-mz6ez nope, he's all mine!

[@simoncampbell7282]

relatable

[@sotakunaii]

Thanks Brandon for giving us some of your wisdom to watch during these rather exceptional times!

[@jpd466]

I’ve been reading this guy’s books for well over a decade, and today is the first time I’ve heard his voice. It’s both exactly what I expected, and surprising somehow.

[@nothing23145]

I came for Brandon's awesome lecture, and lost my mind looking at his Solaire of Astora "Praise the Sun" shirt. Didn't know he was a DARK SOULS fan. Just beat Neal Stephenson and John Scalzi as my new favorite author!!

[@likeasonntagmorgen]

the man's T-shirt collection is second to none

[@stevedennehy2186]

What you said about the problems changing after we've already invested in finding the solution tracks wonderfully with the Finn and Rose subplot in The Last Jedi. It is a great illustration of the way this goes wrong. It ends up being unsatisfactory despite the content of the subplot up to that point feeling like a classic Star Wars b-plot.

[@totallynuts7595]

"Classic Star Wars b-plot"? I'm sorry, but at no point does it resemble that... let me ditch "b-plot", because in the OT and Prequels, there are no "b-plots", nothing is secondary, I'll call them "different perspectives" instead. So let me jog your memory: ANH has only one perspective; ESB has Luke fighting on Hoth then training on Dagobah and Han, Leia and Chewie dealing with the Empire on Hoth and in Cloud City; RotJ has only one perspective till the last fight. Phantom Menace has only one perspective, AotC has Obi-wan investigating while Anakin plays guard, RotS has multiple scenes with characters bouncing back and forth until Obi leaves for Utapau and Anakin becomes a murder hobo. So which of the OT or Prequel films has anything resembling a character that starts preaching about the evil rich people and then getting thrown in prison and then ending up in a chase scene that destroys a casino and by the end of the film it becomes meaningless because the original reason for this b-plot is forgotten about? There is nothing "classic" about it, it's a section forced into the story for an agenda.

[@rainbowstarfall]

Great lecture! I've been struggling with the heist portion of my manuscript and this really helped me to see it from angles I hadn't considered before ❤ Thank you!

[@Luisa-bt2wr]

thank you for the opportunity of listening to this! i'm brazilian and never found material to this level in portuguese, greatly appreciate it!

[@BlacklitStar]

My guy bless you for giving me a chance to learn some awesome stuff. I couldn't be any more thrilled by all of these uploads i never knew i could enjoy the process of how stories are made and broken down. Thanks again.

[@swaterberries]

Love you Brando Sando.

[@swaterberries]

Ward Yorgason, it’s just a coincidence that I call him that too, haha.

[@greggumz4]

Biggest lesson here. Study archetypes. Study stories. So helpful.

[@patrickg2416]

"when I was building Mistborne.." -- emphasis on BUILDING. Anyone can come up with a story to tell. It is a different, entirely separate skill to BUILD or CONSTRUCT a story that is inherently fascinating on it's own and instantly gives structure for the development of deeper and relatable characters. A story written with average prose will rise FAR above another if the structure of the plot, it's archetypes, and how the characters fit into it's complexity are built in a highly effective way

[@TheAnniewinn]

WOOHOO!! I needed a break from my nutrition studies!! This is a different type of “nutrition” class, I suppose!! 😃

[@iamr9819]

this is very helpful, thank you so much. I have been inspired to write a heist-like story after watching and playing some of my favorite heist stories. still in the works, but hopefully i will be able to finish writing it, thank you so much

[@TinCanToNA]

Saw this segment before in your lecture series, but had this reaction just now: You describing heists: “Impossible problem 1, impossible problem 2…” Me: *Gasp* “Top Gun 2 was a heist movie!!!”

[@reelscreenwriting8940]

Thanks for this 😊 I’m really enjoying the content you are putting out.

[@Wanderhoof]

Thank you! I was just bored out of my mind, you’ve saved me from cleaning 🙏

[@andreasstergard4057]

Just Write has a great video about how Harry Potter is really a mystery disguised as a fantasy series, which reminds me of what he said at the end about Infinity War being a heist in a superhero-movie’s clothing

[@imygurl08]

Perfect timing. I have an idea for a heist plot that I've been trying to flesh out.

[@munchcat]

These videos seriously make me wish I was going to BYU while an active member of the church :p Or at least that my Creative Writing teacher had some actual books under her belt.

[@brotherbuddha89]

I recently watched The Hot Rock a 1972 film starring Robert Redford about a Diamond heist and I enjoyed the film. I enjoyed the pacing as well as how and where the goal posts were moved throughout the film.

[@MrJuakoHawk]

I've always wondered about this one! Amazing!

[@princessthyemis]

Thanks so much! Even though it's an understatement, you clearly know your stuff! This is fantastic!

[@chadum96]

I really need this. My story involves a heist in the first act and so far it's really weak.

[@CamInTheHat]

good luck :)

[@tomplus5816]

Hey! How's it going?

[@NAME-yg8sl]

Is it doing good now? Need some advice for mine.

[@xarmanhsh2981]

Add some pirates

[@julianiemeyer1010]

Oof. Wish he had gone over the Bash and Grab too. I have a cop and thief as my MCs. I know i'm going to be doing murder mysteries, but I feel like heists are also going to be required. I'm planning a series, so I think i'll do one of each in each book and switch which is my A plot based on which one of the two of them is the dominant MC for the book.

[@Rocksteady72a]

*realizes this is practically a breakdown of Starsight

[@TacticusPrime]

I mean, it's literally what happens in Mistborn. Kelsier hides the missing element of the plot from everyone else. But also there are big twists toward the end that force them to rework their plans on the fly.

[@ozalishar9300]

Praise the SUN!

[@yerabbit]

yay plot day!

[@TheBookNerd2]

The commentary at the end has an odd connection the Great British Baking Show for me because a pattern I noticed is that the dishes the judges most consistently had positive results to was a twist on a classic dish. Or to phrase this more similarly to Sanderson; something familiar in a new context.

[@TheKrazyLobster]

I want the new lesson, Master! Pretty please with sugar on top? 🥺

[@lexzbuddy]

Very helpful, thanks

[@MemphiStig]

14:46 so Brandon asked Russo where they came up with Infinity War's plot and he said "from this book called Mistborn"

[@florbengorben7651]

I need this video because I've had the idea to write a screenplay involving the heist of expensive cheese.

[@dtzyYT]

Will just be sharing this or the other lectures to my friends next time they ask me why I have such high standards on games and movies.

[@He.knows.nothing]

Here I am looking at sanderson's recipes to incorporate into my own writings

[@morraquelee]

Oh to be a student lectured by the one and only Brandon Sanderson

[@sanctuarygaming4984]

I am curious, what would something like Altered Carbon be considered for plot Archetype, some sort of sci-fi spy novel?

[@andrewfleenor7459]

IIRC the book is a straight-up noir mystery. Not sure that's an "archetype" in Sanderson's nomenclature (maybe "information plot"), but it gets you pretty close.

[@mrussoart]

I've read several story books but I don't think I remember "heist" archetype being discussed in any

[@leovincent7417]

Hey people what are some heist movies you would recommend?

[@matiasgagliardone7545]

Now You See Me, Takers, Logan Lucky, Tower Heist, Baby Driver, all the Ocean's movies, some of the Fast & Furious use this achetype, Ant-Man,

[@MasterTow1994]

How many archetypes are there? :)

[@SolotaireKid]

Can someone explain how infinity war has elements of a heist story? I feel out of the loop even having watched it

[@Halfkroon]

I think he was referring to Endgame instead of Infinity War (it was originally called Infinity War part 2). In Endgame, they have the hunt for the different infinity stones in the past, which has elements of a heist movie in it (the "smash and grab" subtype that Brandon mentioned).

[@SolotaireKid]

@@Halfkroon ah. That I can understand. Thanks

[@Ruylopez778]

I guess we could argue that Avengers movies (and many superhero movies) have the "getting a team with specific skills together and coming up with a plan" segment even if they aren't actually stealing anything.

[@darkthorpocomicknight7891]

Thanos is stealing gems from various people - heist. But not a single heist- different heists.

[@viktorlindqvist5308]

Did he even mention his chef, not cook metaphor in the first video? Missed that entirely

[@simoncampbell7282]

is rhythm of war going to be released on time?

[@ekitten02]

www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/fmovga/stormlight_book_four_update_8/

[@simoncampbell7282]

thx

[@DAGDRUM53]

Richard Stark's pre-1974 Parker books are excellent heist novels, the ones after 1997 are not as good.

[@shingnosis]

This is old content and part of an earlier full lecture.

[@MuddiedProphet]

Yeah. I'm thinking the lecture that was scheduled to happen didn't because of the C-Virus, but he's trying to give us something.

[@jchinckley]

Still, something is better than nothing.

[@manuelcellini5708]

​@@MuddiedProphet these lectures aren't live streaming. According to my "calculations", they are actually being uploaded on youtube only after a month or so. So probably the two lectures missing (the ones on character, plus maybe a third for Q&A, depending on what Brandon was going to do) took regularly place and should have been already recorded. Hinting at this is the fact that, before lecture #8 with Q&A on worldbuiling, they made a live streaming with the first lecture on publishing (that was scheduled to be #11 or so). And, between this and the release of lecture #7 (that actually took place the week right before #8, as Brandon himself recalls) there's a two weeks gap. Moreover, I feel that Brandon already had the idea to release this part also as a stand-alone excerpt because of its practical usefulness in understanding a specific type of plot (and so I don't think that this was going to be just a 'patch' because of lack of other lectures to release). So I think that this has nothing to do with Covid emergency, quarantine or else. Probably there's been just some menial hindrance or delay (last was Easter Sunday, after all): nothing to really worry about.

[@MuddiedProphet]

@@manuelcellini5708 Sounds good to me! I love his lectures and always want more, so I definitely want to be wrong here

[@manuelcellini5708]

@@MuddiedProphet yeah, he's really a nice person, humble but capable, that kind of 'funny-but-cool' teacher that everyone would like to have. I really enjoy his lectures and very grateful that they're uploading them for us all for free: it's not something that everybody does or would do. Of course, my comment above just shows how much I'm just so anxious to see more of this class.

[@staizer]

Is the Hobbit a Heist?

[@Gevaudan1471]

Well, Bilbo is a burglar.

[@unitron2005]

I don't think so. The book doesn't really focus on the "heist" itself, nor does it care much about how the company solves the problems that come with ith. Like, at all. They just go in with pretty much no plan (in the book at least) - they don't know how they are gonna trick the dragon, they don't know how they are gonna move out all the treasure they want to steal (remember, in the movie, they only wanna steal the Arkenstone, in the book, it's an actual treasure hunt, so instead of stealing a single item a singular burglar can carry, they want to steal heaps of treasure, that even the whole company would have problems carrying), nor do they consider how a rather vulnerable company of little more than a dozen guys is gonna carry said treasure back to their homeland. So, the main focuses of the Heist archetype are probably not fulfilled. The Hobbit is more focused on Bilbo's inner journey than the Heist itself. Well, that, and exciting action pieces that keep on changing almost every chapter. That, and lots of complaining about not so excting subjects... :D

[@davidallphin2345]

I think gone in 60 seconds is a third heist archetype

[@josegustavocoelho3243]

You Son of a Bitch, I'm In

[@darrenezekieldevaraj9334]

You son of a bitch, I’m in

[@WatchParty1]

I hated the Italian Job for the very reasons he explains here.

[@jamiel3902]

You son of a bitch. I'm in.

[@Wingedmagician]

You son of a bitch.