Breaking down VO2 max: Definition, history, why it plateaus, and whether it really matters

This clip is from The Drive podcast: #151​ - Alex Hutchinson, Ph.D.: Translating the science of endurance and extreme human performance. Originally released on February 28, 2021, you can watch the full interview here: bit.ly/3wjuQKm
Become a member to receive exclusive content: bit.ly/3LleNQk
Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: bit.ly/38uTBu1
--------
About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 30 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
Learn more: bit.ly/3ldSCRG
Connect with Peter on:
Facebook: bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDFB
Twitter: bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDTW
Instagram: bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDIG
Subscribe to The Drive:
Apple Podcast: bit.ly/TheDriveApplePodcasts
Overcast: bit.ly/TheDriveOvercast
Spotify: bit.ly/TheDriveSpotify
Google Podcasts: bit.ly/TheDriveGoogle

[@startingtoday4663]

Thank you Dr Attia and guest for this excellent explanation

[@yowandbm]

Wow Peter, what a podcast! This is truly stunning and deep, all athletes or enthusiasts should see this

[@ianpier16]

my senior kines thesis was on bilateral limb assymetry vs economy of motion in relation to VO2. it was tough to study but very interesting to think about. essentially those who have the best vo2 often are less efficient whereas lesser gifted athletes must be more efficient or dig past lactate threshold more often to keep up

[@Andy-Mesa]

Eliud Kipchoge has a VO2Max in the 70s, whereas many elite runners are in the 80s and 90s.

[@ianpier16]

@@Andy-Mesa right I don't have the numbers in front of me but I also recall a lot of successful elite pro tour cyclists having lower vo2 max than you might expect (many in the 70s as opposed to the 80s and 90s)

[@briandaines9156]

Nerd

[@ianpier16]

@lifreal yeah this makes sense. Power output at or below lactate threshold is the most important consideration in terms of elite performance I would estimate. Although vo2 is easier to measure than lactate in the physiology lab

[@brooklynforever1990]

Thank you for breaking this down in a user friendly way.

[@buckmanriver]

I like the idea the V02 max is independent of motivation when framing questions about V02 max limits.

[@simev500]

Is there more than one cause for muscle tiredness other than lactic acid built-up, and can it be a perception due to mental state rather than purely physical origin?

[@itayshorek6872]

awesome

[@saisantoshblr]

Thank Dr. Attia! Is it right to assume VO2 max is measure of endurance Vs Strength or speed? 🙏

[@nrb5]

At what % of hr max would vo2 max be a good estimate for

[@misteratoz]

Why would lowering fio2 isolate the lung specifically as a limiting factor of vo2?

[@oosemekh]

VO2 max seems like BF% in that its not a predictor of athletic performance strictly, but more of a tool that can be used for self comparison. So alter your diet, lifestyle, training, recivery and check your VO2 max every year. Simple

[@iantaylor2331]

Hey Peter. How often do you recommend doing VO2 max work? I am training for a marathon. Current half marathon time is 1:25. I enjoy cycling and have an FTP of 4W/kg

[@semosancus5506]

A recent podcast he said 80 percent zone 2, 20 percent vo2max. But the explanation seemed to indicate that your 20 percent was not all vo2max but rather a hiit workout where you are all out for a couple minutes then rest then repeat.

[@mertonhirsch4734]

I thought that it was fairly well established that the absolute limiting factor at high end was lung capillarization. One problem with very high VO2max is that when you get above about 40, it is easier to get a high value with less mass, but bone and muscle mass have independent effect sizes on longevity that exceed any effect of having a VO2 max over about 40 or maybe 44 at the top. Something like 95% of the effect on longevity occurs from getting from the bottom 25th percentile to about 40 and VO2max also goes higher for people with more type 1 muscle fibers, but type 2 fibers are needed to retain strength as you age. There is likely a migration of fibers from type 2a to type 2b (or 2x) which is the genetic default setting and then to type 1 with increases in VO2ma above about 40 which mean you lose your peak strength capacity above that point even though strength has a greater effect size that VO2 max above 40 or so.

[@Nyonide]

Well ... there are many factors, which are not considered in VO2 max - as you mentioned type II fibers, which can have many benefits on their own, but also other metrics such as the whole adipose tissue or even the brain mass, which all on the their own have many longevity implications. Still, it is very good predictor. That is the funny thing about it. 😄

[@justrione]

Nice jacket

[@nikitaw1982]

Wim hoff breathing. First week id get dizzy. Then cant get dizzy if i tried. Whats changed? Has ability to absorb o2 increased so vo2max improved?

[@whydoyouneedmyname6508]

But your getting dizzy from to much o2? So could it be having the inverse effect of lowering how much your absorbing as a defense?

[@luisfelix7989]

Is increasing this performance helping general well being or longevity or what??

[@XAUCADTrader]

Yeah, high correlation to longevity. You can reduce your risk of death 5-fold by being in the top 2%ile of VO2 max for your age, but that's a tall order...Just think of the real life term of this as 'fitness'. The higher your VO2 max, the more 'fit' you are.

[@nauding1035]

Is resting heart rate and vo2max linked?

[@nickmacaluso6585]

Not significantly

[@bjornalm9950]

Not directly but a low resting heart rate is a good measure of general health. Infection, overtraining, undertraining, stress, lack of sleep etc will all rise your heart rate at rest.

[@ExcitingBob]

this is deep and penetrating. A bit like my VO2 max.

[@bmp713]

How can VO2max be considered the ultimate measure of aerobic fitness by experts when someone sedentary can have the same VO2max as a trained marathon runner? Wouldn't the highest Lactate Threshold much better indicate the best measure of aerobic fitness?

[@jono1457-qd9ft]

Or Velocity at VO2 max. Also elite distance runners don't have the highest VO2max anyway. They are just very good at running and very highly trained in endurance. So yes, a sedentary person with the same VO2max would have to do huge amounts of training to maximize efficiency and endurance.

[@Nyonide]

No sedentary person will ever have numbers above 60. Your statement is not true.

[@nycstev]

Hey great thread. Quick question there is a method to calculate your Vo2 max using the different of your MAX HEART RATE-RESTING HR times a constant 15.3 . How accurate can this be since my resting HR varies from 60-80. Which one to use? Thanks!

[@bjornalm9950]

Ooh. This does not come out right no matter how you do it. Where did you get this from?

[@lannbak3618]

interesting - as an example max heart rate 180, resting heart rate 50 180 divide 50, and then multiply by 15.3 = VO2 max of 55

[@bjornalm9950]

@@lannbak3618 Don't we all wish for easy solutions? Sorry a run on a tread mill while measuring oxygen consumption is the hard way but as accurate as it gets.

[@lannbak3618]

@@bjornalm9950 yes, i was just using the equation that nycstev provided. I have never heard of the constant of 15.3 before

[@bjornalm9950]

@@lannbak3618 neither have I so I'm sceptical...

[@karlbenmafia]

Man i still don't get it

[@XAUCADTrader]

That's normal, I think this podcast is for people with at least an undergrad understanding of health sciences.

[@vikroy3777]

They don't get it either, like they say they don't know

[@whydoyouneedmyname6508]

Surprise... vo2max favors lighter people... a 150 pound runner will have a higher vo2max than a 280 pound NFL player. But that NFL player can run faster and their total energy out put might be 5x.... vo2max is only good for your own comparison as stated... for firefighter testing we do vo2max testing and all the skinny weak guys pass it no problem but then they get crippled on the stregnth tests ..

[@luisfelix7989]

Nah!! I played football, basketball, and ran track in high school. None of the the guys that played only football couldn't even breathe my dust on the gravel track because I was so far in front of them the dust was settled. I'm 70. I run 40 yard windsprints with the Durango high school quarter back and recievers when they invite me...9 of us altogether...I'm never past 4th in place. These guys are 17 thru 19.

[@loopba]

doesn’t seem to be a picture of health, so perhaps missing something here. Very odd/unhealthy obsession it seems.

[@fhowland]

Ya. Runners and cyclists don’t exactly look healthy

[@darrellshirar4411]

There very healthy very strong hearts

[@XAUCADTrader]

Their cardiovascular system is top notch, but not likely their strength/aesthetics. There are runners' highs that people get addicted to. It's also just an area of progress in life. I've always been a lifter, but have recently been getting into more cardio for health reason. Weightlifters and sprinters look better lol.

[@dralexbrothers]

I doubt Peter has a VO2 of 70. And if you do perhaps you should not constantly broadcast that.

[@matthewr3986]

Yes sounds like BS

[@jono1457-qd9ft]

Why? A 70 VO2max isn't rare for someone with low body fat and naturally suited to endurance sports.

[@JoshuaCurey]

@@jono1457-qd9ftI was gonna say too, wasn’t Peter a high level cyclist?

[@R2RHIker4]

​@@JoshuaCureyhe was also an elite level endurance swimmer. Swam from one island to another in Hawaii. 70 is very high, but not impossible for him

[@cannuckchick7522]

Since it’s something you’re largely born with and can only nudge it rather than dramatically change it with training, you can’t make any assumptions about what a person’s VO2 max is.