Brexit isn't working - nor is Boris Johnson's Britain | Ivan Rogers interview | The New Statesman

[@NewStatesman]

Watch next: Economist Duncan Weldon argues that, after Brexit, Britain is once again becoming "the sick man of Europe". kzbin.info/www/bejne/ranUZaanpNCXock

[@ryanoshea8957]

Ha ha ha ha ha

[@3bebles]

How very true, only this time no doctor!

[@bryangeake5826]

@@ryanoshea8957 No analysis just emotional nonsense badly expressed as silly laughter!

[@bryangeake5826]

@Gustav Von Memel Then you fit the Brexiter basic identity as a reality denier!

[@bryangeake5826]

@@3bebles ....how very typical of Brexiteer denial, attack the man not his points! Shameful!

[@rgghjs9270]

EU was closing loopholes for tax evasion. London does the world's money laundering. It's really not that complicated.

[@jackmcnally9237]

Correctisimo!

[@raymondwebb4179]

Yes brexiteers deny this. , and won’t listen ?

[@georgesdelatour]

The EU’s Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive 2016/1164 was adopted by the EU Commission three days AFTER the 2016 Referendum. The UK incorporated it into domestic law while it was negotiating withdrawal, and it’s still in force in the UK today.

[@georgesdelatour]

The biggest three contributors to the Remain campaign in 2016 were Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan and Morgan Stanley. A Guardian investigation revealed that Jean-Claude Juncker had engaged in tax avoidance. Tony Benn devoted over thirty years of his life to campaigning against the UK’s membership of the EU. He didn’t do it to avoid tax.

[@FacheChanteDeux]

This was the real goal- Malta 2.0, screw the middle class and everyday working Brits who make the country tick.

[@TheEvertw]

"The naivete of the UK political system" The phrasing is very complimentary towards the Johnson government. They had been warned, many, many times that they were massively underestimating the complexity of Brexit, but chose to ignore those warnings. This can not be wholly attributed to naivety, but rather to disinterest. I think the Johnson government was pursuing different goals from what they admitted to. Their biggest priority was getting the UK out from under EU monetary regulations by 1-1-2020 because of the stricter EU controls on money laundering & financial transparency.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

There is an argument to be made that brexit actually was the better option for the uk. Complying with these eu regulations could quite possibly have devistated the one industry propping up the country. The entire economy is dependent on being the worlds laundromat. Taking that away could end very ugly.

[@sadjaxx]

Idiocy more like.

[@peterjones596]

Oh I don't know so much, they were hugely interested in taxdodging, and Johnson was far from disinterested in power...

[@dessertstorm7476]

I think their main priority was winning the election. Now their main priority is winning the next election

[@JohnWilson-yg7ko]

Naive is not the word most of us would use. Corrupt is a much better fitting word for the scum currently entrenched in Westminster.

[@detritiv0re144]

They wanted all of the benefits of EU membership with none of the obligations and they did not get that.

[@lucius1976]

Now they blame the EU and remainers that they did not get it.

[@DieNWOsiehtAlles66]

Which is usually described as "bullying", "punishing" and "trying to drag them back" in UK press.

[@pjconnolly]

@@DieNWOsiehtAlles66 🤣🤣🤣, What about trying, to determin a trade deal through legislation in your own, parlement to override an international trade deal that you negotiated, because you didn't like it.

[@derekmab7734]

Because they live in a fantasy land called BrexShit

[@georgesdelatour]

They wanted the free trade without the federalism. They wanted the EU to be more like the NAFTA/USMCA, the CPTPP etc, and less like a proto-USA of Europe.

[@jamesgriffithsmusic]

There are still some delusions coming through in this interview. The idea that we gained 'maximum autonomy' from a wafer-thin trade deal is for the birds. Fun fact: if we want to sell any of our stuff in the EU (our largest and nearest market), we have to follow their rules. And oh yeah, we used to join in on making those rules before we left, and now we don't have a say but still have to follow them anyway. So we have even less autonomy than we had before we left. And for an encore, our borders are now so under our control that they're wide open.

[@louis-philippearnhem6959]

I completely agree

[@darraghfinnan3740]

100%.

[@michaeljijus980]

True

[@alexkat8297]

He probably means autonomy to do trade deals with other parts of the world

[@windowman929]

Even if the UK attempts to strike deals with other countries, those other countries,more than likely have to pass it by the European union, as other countries will have agreed terms and conditions, with the European union, regarding new competition, from third party countries. there is also the small matter of 440 million customers in the European union. what kind of economy, would put that of risk.

[@ianwoodywoodwoof345]

Free movement within the EU was a wonderful thing. I took advantage of it to travel, work, etc It was easy. Now it is a nightmare and has scuppered the dreams of many, faced with increased costs, beurocratic visa hurdles and for those with homes in the EU now limited to 90 in any 180 days. It is now again the persuit of the privileged and it is gained by those with access to money. Odd how so many of those who supported Brexit at the same time gained/bought EU passports!

[@kevincoshner310]

Ian. do you still travel to EU and how much extra time has been added to your journey, if any, because of Brexit.

[@jonsimmons4150]

I moved to paris in 1986.. Before maastrict treaty free movement. Got job... Had somewhere to stay... Lived 18 years there.. Biggest difficulty? *getting employment over the legions of local native speakers, with local exp.and local quals* Its not the paper hurdles.

[@jonsimmons4150]

you can travel- and work. like i did in 1986- 18 years in europe. learn language, get job.. simples.

[@jonsimmons4150]

good luck!- low pay EU. 🙂

[@marvinstorm9153]

It was totally unnecessary to stop it

[@slacker2101]

Imposing trade sanctions on yourself is always pretty silly.

[@LordOfLight]

Amen. 🙏

[@fredfish4316]

Having a PhD in international economics Anthony, I, and my professional colleagues, would proffer that it is a bit more than silly . Indeed, the consensus is that it is downright unbelievably, moronically in-f'ing-sane.

[@LordOfLight]

@@fredfish4316 Sticking my head out here, but I think your PhD is in BS. But at least its international.

[@petergaskin1811]

The first time it's been done in the whole history of the World.

[@jonsimmons4150]

Letting committees in other countries control your international trade, its rules, and allowing unfettered immigration to your country on the back of a trading contract is a bad deal.. Especially when you have to pay billions into the standover committee every year to trade.

[@Paul-eb4jp]

So basically the losses are massive and the benefits are almost non existant, on top of this we've lost our freedom of movement.

[@emm_arr]

Yes. But the London Laundromat stayed open and dirty money avoided ATAD and AMLD.

[@leonardgibney2997]

I lived in Germany in the 1970s as a Brit and had no trouble getting in. As did a lot of my English mates, some of whom had been there since the end of the war.

[@georgerobert4709]

Pretty much sums it up YEP !

[@Shikuesi]

You assume FOM in this sense is automatically viewed as a good thing by everyone in Britain. News for you: it isn't.

[@jonsimmons4150]

lol diddums!- youll have to do like i did in 86- goto country, seek employment, learn local lingo!

[@gerardvila4685]

So "having your cake & eating it" was what the UK had when it was in the EU: it got the economic boost while opting out of the stuff it didn't like. Now it's a mythical cake that you have to believe in but nobody has ever seen (or will see). To me it is obvious that if the British public had had the same understanding of reality that Rogers had - in particular the economic cost of leaving the single market and customs union - then Brexit would never have won the referendum. And the main reason they didn't understand - or not enough of them did - was that they were lied to.

[@biocapsule7311]

Strictly speaking almost every member has something they get to opt out of, the UK more so then any. What they want with Brexit is worst then opting out of stuff. Nothing is ever enough for the privileged who thinks they are the only ones that deserve all the privileges.

[@Jay_Johnson]

@@biocapsule7311 this was my argument for remain. Why are we leaving now? If the EU try to force the euro or an EU army on us by removing the veto and not giving us opt outs that is when Brexit should be discussed not when so far the EU had been nothing but a good faith partner.

[@kimwit1307]

The politics and part of the media in the UK had been engaged in a concerted anti-EU effort (filled with lies) for decades at the time of the referendum.

[@georgesdelatour]

@@Jay_Johnson The problem with your argument is, previous UK governments have signed up to integrationist moves against the wishes of voters. It’s just a fact that belief in the EEC/EU is far more widespread within the political class (which includes Ivan Rogers) than among the voting mass. The 2017 Parliament - elected after the 52-48 vote to leave the EU - produced a Parliament in which 480 out of 650 MPs said they had voted Remain in 2016. You can’t even make sense of John Major’s knife-edge battle to force the Maastricht Treaty through Parliament unless you assume Major believed the British people would vote it down if they were allowed a Referendum on it. If the 2016 Remain campaign had promised constitutionally binding automatic referenda on all future European integration I would have reluctantly voted Remain. But I suspected the Remainers would use a Referendum win to push through more federalism. I didn’t trust them, based on their previous form. I’m constantly told that the slippery slope is a fallacy. But in just about every historic example I’ve looked at, it’s turned out to be true. I notice you mention the EU Army. I heard high-profile Remainers like Nick Clegg claim on TV that absolutely no one in the EU had ever advocated an EU Army. It was, apparently, all a Leaver conspiracy theory. Yet I remembered Jean-Claude Juncker making speeches advocating it. How was I supposed to square that?

[@Jay_Johnson]

@@georgesdelatour The EU army will not be created until they get rid of unanimous voting. As long as we had a veto it would never have happened. I also think the level of support the UK would see within the EU if it was seen as the EU forcing policy on the UK would have been much greater and would have put us in a better bargaining position. countries like Denmark Austria, Sweden and Finland would have kicked up a fuss too.

[@ianworley8169]

Brexit has become nothing more than a national cult. Regardless of the impact on the UK economy, increasing immigration, inflation, the shrivelling pound, dwindling exports, vastly more expensive imports, loss of overseas markets and all the competitive advantage being had from EU Membership. We've gone from the fastest growing Economy in the EU, to the second worst in the entire G20. The Union is in terminal decline and will not exist within this decade. All of which shows no signs of obvious improvement. And still the zealots blame every external factor but the glaringly obvious, hard Brexit. Nothing matters but the sacred, bloated, toxic, cow of Brexit. Perhaps once Britain as an entity no longer exists, along with any status we once had in the World and with a unified Ireland and independent Scotland firmly within the European Union, we might be able to confront this lunacy. Another generation will then take steps to rejoin as the greatly diminished singular country of England. Who the hell knows where the Welsh will end up. Personally, I'm sick to death of all the rancid nationalism around the UK. I'm now, more than ever, English and not, British. Britain and it's putrid Brexit cult can just fade into history as far as I'm concerned.

[@pureplay7071]

Absolutely spot on.

[@raymondwebb4179]

Excellent response, But sorry brexiteers are not listening , or not wanting to listen?

[@fuckfannyfiddlefart]

So now you want a hard BORDER in Britain. Great! Doh!

[@Bbq7272]

What is it with the Welsh? They won't even vote Plaid over the English import 'Labor' - as least the Scots have seen through that.

[@Nick-kb6jd]

Agree almost entirely. Apart from Brexit being "British" That's not really true is it?

[@andrewolgado6018]

The very fact he was replaced by an incompetent Frost was huge warning bells for brexit disaster. As a remainer, I really wanted to be proved wrong. We now have most incompetent government in living memory. Brexit argument was largely instrumental in the purge of more intelligent and competent politicians and senior civil servants.

[@raymondwebb4179]

Correct!

[@glennjanot8128]

An added difficulty is that this government isn't just the most incompetent but also the most corrupt

[@djdoolittle1315]

How the gave him a peerage? What a nut house 😔☝️

[@davidbarbero6212]

Frost could only play the hand he was given.

[@allancrotch2953]

So how did brexit not work? thats just what I voted for

[@blindfreddy9157]

They wanted a unicorn and got a one horned goat.

[@ParcelOfRogue]

We left the SM & CU on the day the EU's Transparency and Savings Directives came into force. Mogg and Redwood with their dodgy distant overseas investment companies were desperate to avoid those and they may have been the real drivers of the UK leaving, certainly the timescale.

[@edwardbrady5843]

They need us more than we need them, really?

[@raymondwebb4179]

Remainers we’re told project fear , it is now project here,

[@richardcory5024]

I find nothing but denial, not despair, over Brexit from Brexiteers. I presume they can go on denying for ever. Politically powerful Brexiteers genuinely do not care if the country becomes poorer and poorer because they are the ones who profit from other people's poverty and despair.

[@samhartford8677]

You should watch David Frost in the UK in a Changing Europe seminar "The World Beyond Brexit", if you want to see some more of that denial. Watch out for the hazard of getting concussion from having to bang your head on the wall.

[@christopherthorpe7840]

It's not Brexit, it's fake!

[@3bebles]

YES... to some extent BUT soon there will be no more profit and no more UK cow to be milked. Little England milk will be very sour!

[@tomhighsmith]

Patience, in a few years all of the UK will realize it.

[@jonsimmons4150]

Truck drivers on £300 pw pay increase outta EU. In france €1800 gros pay/ month. Uk £750-1100 p.w.

[@ParcelOfRogue]

When will Britain come to it's senses and end this insanity

[@fredfish4316]

ENGLAND never will.

[@ParcelOfRogue]

@@fredfish4316 the polls are shifting against brexit across the board. Even convinced Brexiteers are angry that it's been so bad and must sense they were lied to. They believed the liars rather than the experts

[@kelvinsidwick506]

Not while there are people on this very feed saying i voted out and would do so again without giving any real reason,its a religeon.

[@Youtube_deleted_my_favourites]

The report, from classics master Martin Hammond to Stanley Johnson in 1982, criticised the 17-year-old Boris for thinking he should be free of the "network of obligation that binds everyone". The teacher also said Boris "believes it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception".

[@michaelmouse4024]

The brexit Paradox is that any govt capable of delivering brexit wouldn't & voters clever enough to decode brexit would reject it. As Hugh Grant said "We’re not allowed to call Brexiteers thick but it’s a struggle sometimes.”

[@Houston1863]

Precisely!!

[@jonsimmons4150]

we have waited 30 years for a referendum on the EU. booted it into the back of the net.. dont worry- albania and north macedonia are inbound soon, they can make up the lost income to EU coffers.

[@michaelmouse4024]

@@jonsimmons4150 Totally agree - can you now summarise Proust 'À la recherche du temps perdu' ?... in ten words, if you can?

[@johnking6271]

@@michaelmouse4024 Which part of "Its stupid to run a trade war against yourself" do you find impenetrably complex?

[@michaelmouse4024]

@@johnking6271 Stephen Hawking voted Remain. Gemma Collins voted Leave. I rest my case.

[@horanm5]

It's funny to listen to the British thinking that to rejoin is a matter for the British alone. After their untrustworthy negotiations over Brexit, I doubt many Member States of the EU would even consider it for a very long time. An independent Scotland would be a different matter as they voted to remain.

[@garrywynne1218]

On that point we can agree . The voting public of the UK made their choice .

[@dublindutch6346]

i also have to chuckle sometimes at their English exeptionalism. Like joining the E.U is like a Netflix subscription lol. This past decade has caused so much distrust, i really see no way of them joining this century. SIngle market is also not that easy peasy as they think it is, albeit more realistic and doable. I think Scotland best choose independence and come play with the big guys in a 15 trillion market as an equal, rather then take marching orders from an old forgotten empire that is sinking like the titanic.

[@tonycook7679]

How can a futile exercise in stupidity ever be done? It was always going to go like this, there is no other possible destination except the realisation that you really can't have your cake and eat it.

[@tomthumb2361]

Extraordinarily good analysis. Why can't the BBC do this level of exploration of the issues? If our media outlets weren't so subject to political, financial and Establishment influence and so into 'popular' entertainment etc, we might have had proper coverage of the whys and whats of leaving the EU. Instead we just got a jumble of sound-bites and the whole thing was treated like a soap opera. With unfortunate consequences.

[@NewStatesman]

Glad you appreciate it, thanks for your kind comment

[@solidus784]

It's because the average person isn't that bright and has more interest in what colour knickers Meaghan Markle is wearing rather than the economy.

[@Jay_Johnson]

@@NewStatesman My only complaint is that George could do with a better microphone.

[@pauln6803]

The BBC has to fit everything into a space of between one and five minutes. The BBC also has to do it with the Tory Gestapo breathing down their necks.

[@dantownsend4246]

Boris just put in his man as head of BBC. Enjoy the unbiased reporting from now on

[@miramuchachito296]

First: "i don't think we are coming back" honey, we don't want you here. We only want Scottland and a reunification of Ireland Second: the "global" thing is a joke! Why a country like France, Spain or Germany are not "global"? Always the arrogance to believe that " we sre special" "we are different" Give me a break!

[@sadjaxx]

Its a bit stupifying isn't it?

[@ane-louisestampe7939]

If you come back, Dear, you better come crawling on your knees, and better make sure you know at least 50 ways to say you're sorry. Oh, and don't forget to bring gifts - BIG gifts! Peace and love from a woman scorned :-))

[@michaeljijus980]

TRUE!!!!!!!

[@jonsimmons4150]

they are. france sell frigates to taiwan, mistral helicopter assault ships to russia, helicopters to australia heck you can buy a new BMW in south africa or japan! spain has no manufacturing

[@miramuchachito296]

@@jonsimmons4150 maybe not manufacturing but Spain is nailing it with services to Latin America. I'm myself venezuelan (i live in Germany) my sister works for a big spanish insurance company in Caracas.

[@hvermout4248]

Brexit is working quite well: Europe is now able to slowly slowly come together!

[@helenooft9664]

I am European and think that England back in the SM and CU is not an option, and also never will be ever again a member of the EU. If Scotland and NI perhaps in the future be a member is ok, but not in the United Kingdom. For me brexit is done 6 years ago.

[@ULYSSES-31]

Northern Ireland automatically re-enters the EU if it reunifies with the Republic of Ireland.

[@joachimfrank4134]

I think it will come back into SM and CU, but not into EU. There are several states not in EU eg. Norway and Switzerland, so this could be a possible way.

[@davetdowell]

Thank you for expressing clearly that all of this from a European perspective is about age old pure hatred of Europeans for the English, and that the EU strategy is working to destroy UK and GB. Good luck with the free loading Celts.

[@IslandForestPlains]

Scotland leaving the UK might actually solve the NI conundrum, as it would force unionists to chose between loyalty to the Crown, or staying close to their ancestral heritage in Scotland. If they chose Scotland, this might result in a Celtic equivalent to Scandinavia or the Benelux countries, with close economical and cultural ties between Ireland, NI and Scotland, forging a new identity.

[@martinmcdonald4207]

Interesting times. But i am beginning to think that an independent Scotland might be a smoother happening with the backing of rejoining the EU will be easier result to achieve than that of a United Ireland considering the impossible stance of the Unionists. That is and always was the old chestnut that says NO to everything and anything that is positive and good for all the people of NI. Scotland don`t have such oddballs to deal with so Independence is inevitable. Slainte from Dublin.

[@blessedheavyelements8544]

Interesting idea. Thanks! 👍🏼

[@vercoda9997]

I don't think you grasp what Unionists truly think like - while many of them respect ancient Scottish ties, overall it's The Crown that they look to, and a Disneyfied hyper version of 'Britishness', which refers to royalty, not England. Scotland leaving the Union - which, personally, I hope they do, not least as I also don't see any interest from Westminster and England in Scotland (any more than there's interest in Northern Ireland - there patently isn't), other than simply maintaining The Union, and the lingering echo of a once mighty empire - would simply make the Unionists, or at least, the hardcore Unionists within that insufficient label, double down on clinging to remain what they are, and grip their Union ties even closer.

[@Bbq7272]

@@vercoda9997 that's what always struck me. The sashes and bowler hats and union jacks are just another cosplay. Do they really relish the union or is it a comical anti papist theatrical thing

[@janswimwild]

Add Wales in for a Celtic federal alliance. This is a very attractive proposition, the worm finally turning.

[@mike747436]

Easily the best informed and most comprehensive summary of the current UK/EU relationship I have seen. Thank you.

[@NewStatesman]

Thanks for your comment, glad you found the video useful

[@nicennice]

Exactly what I was going to say. I hope this is what Starmer is listening to. I get the impression it is. The Tories on the other hand are, for the time being, lost in a totally delusional world of English exceptionalism.

[@iberiano-ls2rv]

Genuinely Brits, you have made a Great job by uniting us more. Now, since don't like the EU , you can keep away. Thank you very much and farewell.

[@timonsolus]

Please don’t say ‘Brits’, when you say that. Please say ‘English’ instead. Because Brexit was never, ever about what the Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish wanted. Only what the English wanted. The Brexiteers and their followers are 99% English.

[@iberiano-ls2rv]

@@timonsolus I understand about Scots and Irish but not Welsh. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, is the UK the one that had always been putting sticks in the wheels and jeopardizing of a project, which although not perfect, is one of collaboration, peace, integration and understanding. The UK never believed in Unity, only in self interest.

[@timonsolus]

@@iberiano-ls2rv : A majority of people in Wales that were actually of Welsh descent voted Remain. Unfortunately, there were a very large percentage of people living in Wales that were of English descent, and most of them voted Leave, which took Wales over the Leave majority threshold. Not that it would have changed the outcome if they hadn’t, since the population of England is many times larger that of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland combined, but at least the real ethnic Welsh wanted to Remain.

[@garrywynne1218]

angel garcia - it seems 6 million EU citizens prefer the UK and applied for leave to remain in the UK. So it can’t be that bad can it ?

[@garrywynne1218]

@@timonsolus - that’s nonsense about Wales and the Welsh voting remain. Most Welsh speaking farmers I know voted leave . As did my nieces ( Welsh Uni graduates and Welsh speakers) along with many of the youth. It’s a meme put about to diminish the result .

[@joeococonnor]

The Vaccine rollout is a red herring wrt to Brexit. The UK was effectively in the EU (This was during the transition period) at the time. In addition, Hungary and I believe Denmark went their own way anyway. SO there was no compulsion to choose the central planning model that most countries accepted. The EU Program was v slow taking off and frustrating to watch, it did catch up and may have exceeded the UKs program within about 6 months.

[@craigfoulkes]

Well said. This line on the vaccine was not benefit of brexshit. The flexibility was there for all EU members

[@joedonnelly6721]

They constantly mention the roll out but neglect to mention the body count. Ireland for instance had less than half the deaths per thousand.

[@aasphaltmueller5178]

public healt was a member state matter, so Brussels was a bitreluctant and/or slow to accept the role, but then it got going

[@tonylavery8298]

I do believe that Hungary rolled out the vaccination programme 2 days after the UK did.

[@olearyma57]

And we all got jabbed By the inferior Astra Zeneca (Based on data provided by the manufacturer, the Astrazeneca-Oxford vaccine, or AZD1222, has shown to be 63% effective in an ongoing, large-scale clinical trial.) instead of the Pfizer Bio NTech (When Pfizer-BioNTech applied for FDA authorization for its vaccine in December 2020, its initial Phase 3 clinical data surpassed expectations with 95% efficacy, based on an independent analysis by the FDA).

[@catrapesco]

I want to go back to the EU. Please.

[@davetdowell]

Who's stopping you? They appear to be accepting migrants from everywhere as far as I can see.

[@kevincoshner310]

Catrapesco. I am sending two white coated gentlemen to collect you!

[@ColinBarrett001]

Excellent analysis. I'm staunchly pro-European. From what I've read reported over the last six years Ivan Rogers is bang on in his assessment. The sad fact is that the English political establishment is incompatible with the concept of co-operation with other European nations and governments. De Gaulle was right when he objected to British EEC membership back in the sixties for that very reason.

[@markshirley01]

Sad but true, I think Europe is far more socially liberal than the UK. This analysis made me feel a lot better about leaving the EU. Sir Ivan's analysis is spot on. My only irritation with Brexit at the moment is my friends denying the damage that been caused.

[@ausbrum]

The English are basically incapable of cooperation with any one else at all. It sends a barmy army to sledge at test matches and oiks to create a bit of bovver at international football matches

[@georgesdelatour]

Your characterisation of De Gaulle is inaccurate. De Gaulle loathed Monnet’s supranational blueprint for the EEC/EU. He sought to replace it with a “Europe of Nations”, which would have been something like the old “Concert of Europe”, but led by France. That’s what the Empty Chair Crisis was all about. De Gaulle vetoed the UK twice because he feared the UK was too close to the USA - which he disliked far more than he disliked the USSR, BTW. But in February 1969, realising that his attempt to push the EEC away from supranationalism had failed, he secretly approached Christoper Soames, the UK ambassador to France. He offered the UK immediate access to the EEC economic market without involvement in the political structures. Unfortunately for De Gaulle, Soames was a super-Federalist, who immediately revealed De Gaulle’s proposal to the other five EEC members, effectively killing De Gaulle’s plan. Soames was rewarded by being made an EEC commissioner in 1973.

[@sarginsonjon]

Scotland is far better suited to being an EU member Westminster is too arrogant and too ignorant Even after Johnson surrendered to the Taliban he still kept bragging Ashamed of the government

[@Paul-eb4jp]

@@markshirley01 Your only irritation is your friends denying the damage, rather than the damage itself?

[@lemmingsgopop]

Brexit is kinda like if Texas reacted to free trade treaties with Mexico by closing the state off to the other 49 states whining about how expensive everything is now.

[@PanglossDr]

The reason they are unhappy is simple. They were promised something which was completely impossible but they stupidly believed it. They say there are two sorts of Brexiter, very rich and very stupid. Check your bank balance to see which sort you are.

[@jonsimmons4150]

not rich- checked- hardcore brexiteer since 1993, checked. lived in europe 2 decades?- checked.. brexit good ... checked!

[@Irene-im8xi]

Hmm ... Listening to what you say about Scotland I get the impression that instead of being regarded as an equal partner in a voluntary Union (as the UK was in the European Union), Scotland is not regarded as an equal partner in the Treaty of Union. Sounds here as though Scotland is regarded by England as just an annexed territory like the Basque territory which it was equated with in this video while discussing possible secession?

[@simoncolombo6640]

No offense, but as a Finn watching how the English politicians treat the Scotts, I think that is self-evident. (Now, opposite to that I've heard normal English people say it's completely up to the Scotts and that they should get a referendum. -- And let's not mention the absurdity of 'getting a referendum'.)

[@ULYSSES-31]

@@simoncolombo6640 It's why the Irish had a revolution and left (most of us).

[@alastairbarkley6572]

"EU vaccine pressure....." What 'pressure'? Hungary - an EU member - did its own thing; purchased and distributed Russian Sputnik V vaccine. Sputnik V wasn't even licensed in the EU, yet Hungary, an EU member state, bought it and used it.

[@fromgermany271]

The pressure was so hard, we even delivered the vaccine IP to the US. Just look where the „Pfizer vaccine“ was developed. In the mid if the EU.

[@rigelkent8401]

All rise to the Celtic alliance of Ireland and Scotland together.

[@greattobeadub]

Ireland would push hard to help the Scots join the EU.

[@gloin10]

Míchael Martin spoke for a lot of Irish people when he said that he saw no reason to deny EU membership to any country, given the transformative effects it has had for us. Ireland has been pushing for candidate status for Ukraine, and we would definitely be Scotland's loudest and most enthusiastic sponsor when an independent Scotland handed in their membership application in Brussels!

[@jonsimmons4150]

Yes.. Just one or 2 issues there.. Pointed out to snp leader andrew wilson here ---->kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3vMomaPachneZI ~ myself i watch from time to time to witness the competences and reality checks.

[@gloin10]

@@jonsimmons4150 What on earth does you silly link have to do with either the OP, or my response to ir?

I have to say as an Irishman brexit is a dream come true.

[@vincentmckenna1755]

Not got brexit

[@gloin10]

@@vincentmckenna1755 "Not got brexit"? What is that brain fart supposed to mean? You didn't get the Brixit you specifically wanted? Please define it, then tell us all as to which ballot paper it was described on?

[@vincentmckenna1755]

@@gloin10 are you 10

[@muiresuilgorm3452]

Absolutely, mo chara.

[@gloin10]

@@vincentmckenna1755 No, rather more mature and experienced than that. As opposed to your clueless self, obviously....

[@patrickchilds2987]

Has anyone else still not received the Pink Brexit Unicorn we were promised . Guessing it must still be at customs waiting for the paperwork

[@Elbe-Citizen]

Supposing the UK is the centre of Europe. In this situation the UK is surrounded almost everywhere by EU territory similar to Switzerland which can be regarded as an island inside of the EU. I have the impression that brexit will never come to an end. Whenever brits want to travel to the EU or want to trade with the EU they have to follow EU regulations. Perhaps brexit CAN never get done because of this situation.

[@michaeljijus980]

UK is defo NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF EUROPE!!! CHECK OUT MAP OF PLANET PLEASE!!!!

[@Elbe-Citizen]

@@michaeljijus980 I have written "Supposing ..." It is / was just an imagination my friend ;-)

[@michaeljijus980]

@@Elbe-Citizen I know!!!! it's my imagination,what working too.. Mysterious way!!! Lol Bless you!!!

[@davetdowell]

And if the EU companies who want to trade with us will have to follow ours. How did all of this only ever become about the EU being an all powerful empire dictating to everyone else, to you all. I love the idea that EU trade with the others will be done by them dictating terms and standards to America, or China.

[@frankguest1168]

All they can talk about is money & the economy . They don't want to understand why we voted for Brexit!

[@diogeneslamp8004]

Because you can’t eat national pride.

[@colinballantine7868]

62% in Scotland voted to remain. UK government totally ignored this. Time to end this so called Union regain our independence and return to the EU. Hope so much that this happens in next few years and we can escape the madness of Brexit Britain.

[@physiocrat7143]

How would an independent Scotland get its goods in and out of the country?

[@colinballantine7868]

@@physiocrat7143 Strange question. The answer is of course the same way as the Republic of Ireland does.

[@physiocrat7143]

@@colinballantine7868As regards Ireland, where do the goods originate from, what route do the goods take and what mode of transport is used? What changed after Brexit? How would the logistics change if an independent Scotland was in the EU? What is strange about the question?

[@colinballantine7868]

@@physiocrat7143 One of the priorities of an independent Scotland would be to greatly increase capacity at a number of east coast ports, so that goods could go directly to Europe. There will still be goods that will go to Europe via England and by air, but just as Ireland sees the benefits of direct links to the largest single market in the world so will Scotland.

[@physiocrat7143]

@@colinballantine7868 If the direct east coast route from Scotland to continental Europe was viable, it would already have developed. The nearest ports to Scotland are Gothenburg, Esjbjerg and Bremerhaven. The first two are distant from the main centres of population and industry. Leith to Bremerhaven is slightly too far for a RoRo service, as the maximum for a out-and-return next day service is an 18 hour crossing, which Harwich-Esbjerg was; the Ropax ferry operated by DFDS on that route stopped running in 2014 partly due to EU environmental regulations and partly due to falling traffic. Scotland could never generate enough container traffic to support a large port where the biggest container ships called, which means that a Scottish container port would at best be a feeder to Rotterdam or Hamburg. Tyneside is the same - it is just a feeder port to Felixtowe and possibly Rotterdam. The EU Single Market is predicated in the principle that goods should be kept out. Since most goods currently come from or through England, that would be a bit of a problem if Scotland is in and England is out. Alternative sources would have to found, with higher logistics costs to match, but at busy times, the tailback from the EU customs control point north of Berwick would tail back all the way to Gosforth High Street. Advocates of an independent Scotland in the EU haven't studied how it would work on the map.

[@adamgrimsley2900]

Didn't some people say all this? And they were told they were negative, unpatriotic, remoaners...It was impossible to deliver all the promises, and yet here we are. Brexit meant different things to so many people...It's made our country worse and Johnson is to blame.

[@davetdowell]

Johnson shouldn't have done what the population voted for? Not a fan of democracy then? Would rather live in a dictatorship?

[@adamgrimsley2900]

@@davetdowell what of I voted for a Norway style Brexit, did he deliver that?

[@davetdowell]

@@adamgrimsley2900 Did you get a special ballot paper? Only the rest of us only had Remain or Leave on our ballot papers. We picked our option, and are still waiting for it to be delivered.

[@adamgrimsley2900]

@@davetdowell that's my point, there are many forms on Brexit. If I don't get the one I voted for can I say my demonstratic will has not been enforced?

[@davetdowell]

@@adamgrimsley2900 Ummm and my point is you didn't get 'many' options, you (like the rest of us) got a binary choice. Remain or Leave. The Leave option won, so when are we leaving? You've all decided we're not going to Leave, because you all decided you didn't like the option we picked so you converted it into "Remain as much as we can get away with". You've literally made it clear to us that our votes won't be respected (that you hold our existence with hatred and contempt) if we don't vote for what you want. Whilst simulateously doing your level best to dehumanise us (with vile hateful slurs) to justify (in your own heads) your right to ignore our votes. I'm afraid we won't be ignored, and we won't go away, just so you can have what you wanted.

[@klausschumacher7126]

I am always smiling when "specialists" saying how important, influencing and successful the UK within the EU was.... Now I ask myself why the UK wants to change everything when it was so good... It seems more that the UK is highjacked by an nationalistic English party and the voters supported it during the 2019 election. Maybe the UK performed very well on Trade and commercial terms but the people in the UK never developed themselves in a European Way of living. I don't agree with everything what this guy is saying because he doesn't understand the EU either.... The EU doesn't want becoming like the UK where only money is counting. A Federal Republic of Europe and a European Army should be what many EU citizen want. Let's see how it's going.

[@pauln6803]

We're an island and we don't generally see ourselves as European because of it - don't mention the Empire(!). Ireland is different, they suffered under British rule and many were dirt poor before joining the EU, which they've done very well out of. Obviously so did Britain but the benefits were largely hidden from the working class, who've seen the decline of British industry and wages stagnate as house prices rocket.

[@pauln6803]

A federal Europe is definitely not in our way of thinking. But when taking into account the rise of China and the east, closer European integration could well be the best answer.

[@georgesdelatour]

I’d say EEC/EU membership sped up the financialisation of the UK economy. The trend was there long before we joined the EEC, but our membership definitely intensified things a lot. Contrary to what Friedrich List had predicted 100 years earlier, free trade between Germany and the UK benefitted German industry at the expense of British industry, while providing somewhat compensatory benefits to UK financial services. The CFP decimated the UK fishing industry, with most of the damage completed by the mid-1980s. This is exactly what the policy was intended to do. I think a heavily financialised economy can work well for small city states like Singapore and pre-1997 Hong Kong. But it’s bad for the UK and the USA. Both need to rebalance.

[@LordOfLight]

"The EU doesn't want becoming like the UK where only money is counting." A breath taking generalisation.

[@tomhighsmith]

I think the UK should work on becoming a real democracy first. It is now a class society.

[@JamesKerLindsay]

Very good interview. Always worth listening to his views. I just have a couple of comments on Scotland: Spain is not opposed to Scottish independence and EU membership. It is opposed to unilateral secession. As long as Scotland leaves the U.K. with the consent of the British government it will certainly not stand in the way of Scotland in Europe. Secondly, an independent Scotland wouldn’t open a debate on a Europe of microstates. Scotland would be a large small state, or a small medium state, if it joined. It would probably be 17th or 18th out of 28 members in terms of popukation. It certainly wouldn’t be one of the smallest.

[@RobBCactive]

At least after the disastrous Brexit vote, Spain also recognised that Scotland had been an independent country which Spanish nationalists deny Catalonia which joined Castille by union of monarchies.

[@jean-pascalesparceil9008]

@@RobBCactive No, the kingdom of Aragon, of which the Catalonian counties were part of since 1137, joined the Kingdom of Castille. Catalonia was never an independant country, it gained autonomy for the first time in 1932.

[@RobBCactive]

@@jean-pascalesparceil9008 thanks for illustrating my point 😁

[@jonsimmons4150]

andrew neil vs andrew wilson snp on YT. that will wake the fairies out of your head.

[@NLTops]

I love how everyone always says Spain would get in the way of Scotland's EU membership. The guy in the interview says it best: As long as it happens in a way that can be differentiated from Catalonia (i.e. sets a precedent for Catalonia) Spain couldn't give a flying foop. And it CAN be differentiated. Because the UK is not in the EU and Spain is. If Scotland becomes independent (even unilaterally) and applies for the EU, the UK is not in the EU to veto their membership. But if Catalonia becomes independent (which can only happen unilaterally, secession is against the Spanish constitution), then Spain is in the EU and can veto their membership (for any reason they'd like or even none at all, that's how veto works...). Spain has nothing to gain from blocking Scotland, nor anything to lose from accepting them. The UK should know this because they played the same card during the first indie ref campaign, I recall the not so subtle threat "If you leave, we'll just veto your EU membership.". There are other issues that need to be worked out (very well iterated in this interview), but the EU (as a whole or member states in specific) has no reason to stop an independent Scotland from rejoining. It regains some of the EU-side's losses of Brexit, it puts some not-so-subtle pressure on the UK in the form of a land border and it would increase the chances of Irish reunification.

[@honda-pcx-tips-reviews-custom]

My dear British Citizens, Please eat your Brexit Cake and stay away from us for good!

[@sacredgeometry]

Shush now bot!

[@florafauna5883]

@@sacredgeometry Well, you asked for it, didn't you, you little englander..

[@derekmab7734]

But I voted to remain and I am now a prisoner of BrexShit. I want to leave the UK to go to Europe but I cannot because the Brexiters stripped me off my EU citizenship against my will.

[@raymondwebb4179]

@@derekmab7734 oh dear feel sorry for you, but there are many many more wanting to leave cesspit island,

[@raymondwebb4179]

It wasn’t the fault of all Brits have compassion for us!

[@peterjones596]

Gosh, imagine that, the Tories promised something and it turned out not to be true, and now they're desperately trying to cover their arses because they've sold the country down the river, again.

[@paul1979uk2000]

Brexit isn't working, it's clear to see even for Brexiteers, but Brexiteers are slow learners and it will take about 10 years of pain before they are willing to admit they got it wrong and want to change course and until then, things are likely going to get worse in the UK with the real possibility of Scotland and/or Northern Ireland leaving the UK union and honestly, maybe that needs to happen as a major wake-up call for the Brexiteers. Being stubborn and not listening to other points of views on Brexit can have major consequences for the UK and I think that as long as the Conservative Party are in power, the risk grows every day that Scotland or Northern Ireland will leave the UK union, they are the ones fuelling the fires and they don't even realize it.

[@paulap2377]

Don't count me in.......Please. Don't abuse the intelligence... ..Remainders don't get it .... Brexiteers have common sense... paying billions for what .to dictate to the people...... Only fools stand for that.... And Brexiteers are no fools ....

[@muiresuilgorm3452]

They do not care.

[@douglastodd1947]

We had to suffer 45yr of EU rules paying up with no benefit . it was a TRADING POST NO FEES , RUN BY CIVIL SERVANTS FROM MEMBER COUNTRIES ,, France and Germany politicised it.

[@jonsimmons4150]

Here is your "wakeup call" ----->kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3vMomaPachneZI

[@arnaldofigueiredotibyrica6202]

Superb! What a comprehensive and precise analysis of the events around Brexit. I’d add that Brexit may have opened the eyes of the EU for the fair demand for a more dynamic governance.

[@therealrobertbirchall]

And when Scotland leaves the UK and rejoins the EU. The UK is finished.

[@therealrobertbirchall]

@@roberttownrow3606 well Scotland has plenty of natural resources and human capital to back our own hard currency. By joining EFTA Scotland will start the process of de integration from the UK economy and will move to a Norwegian model, backed as I say by a hard currency a Scottish £ not the toilet paper that is the UK £. Let's hope the Westminster government treat the negotiations for Scotland's withdrawal from the UK with a little more respect and seriousness, I suspect they won't no matter who is in power doon there, we in Scotland are embarking on a national conversation about a Scottish constitution and our future direction of travel. Something conspicuously absent before the Brexshit referendum. As you say it won't be easy there are challenges ahead, but as JFK said 'we chose to do these things in this generation, not because they are easy, but because they are hard'.

[@therealrobertbirchall]

@@roberttownrow3606 there will be inconvenience for sure but look at it this way we may be erecting a trade barrier with a very small not even global player the rump UK. But we will be eliminating trade barriers with 27 soon to be 29 other states, who have much more to offer us than the English dominated UK. As I say the Scots £ will be a hard currency not like the UK pound at all. Scotland will be fine but how will England manage without our oil, gas and taxes?

[@therealrobertbirchall]

@@roberttownrow3606 do you live in Scotland? If not then you have no need to worry about us.

[@JerzyFeliksKlein]

I watched all of his speeches and interviews available and by far Ivan Rogers is the best expert in the UK on the issue of Brexit. Always level headed and unbiased, trying to present facts rather than opinions. A huge loss for the civil service.

[@michaeljijus980]

He is biased...by British "exceptionalizm" Seriously

[@mikedon5205]

@@michaeljijus980 stating fact isn't biased .. Ffs you hear exceptionalism every day in UK politics . Every time Boris Johnson opens his mouth at the dispatch box spewed exceptionalism

[@jonsimmons4150]

so why didnt he foxtrot oscar off to the EU to live?

[@JerzyFeliksKlein]

@@michaeljijus980 seriously, he is not. I've watched hours of his speaches, got his book 9 lessons from Brexit which is waiting for me and I have never sensed even the slightest hint of English exceptionalizm from him. This suggests that you yourself might be biased and present your own bias on the man.

[@JerzyFeliksKlein]

@@jonsimmons4150 I don't know, because he is British and this is his country? Because he is not a Brexiteer who actually lives in his villa in France?

[@mycallhotshot123]

So “Project Fear” has become “Project Told-you-so”. No surprise whatsoever

[@wearemysticking]

Simple question, what has happened to all the money that was paid to the EU and why hasn't it been used to help those people in need

[@sadjaxx]

Stolen by the Tories and their cronies.

[@joachimfrank4134]

There were central services done by EU agencies, which had to be duplicated in the UK. I'm not sure, how much had to be invested into theese.

[@gloin10]

The whole Brixit debacle is an explicit denial of the Gravity Model of Trade, which basically states that the intensity of trade is highest between geographically close states, and decreases as the distance between trading partners increases. It is also a denial of the reality that rich countries trade, overwhelmingly, with OTHER rich countries. The UK is about No 30 in the world, in terms of per capita GDP. The World Bank classifies about 36 countries in the world as 'Developed' or rich. Of those, at least 30 are in the EU and the EEA. The UK simply CANNOT replace its trade with the EU by making trade deals with countries or blocs on the other side of the planet. Nor can the UK become better off by selling expensive services, its most lucrative exports, to the likes of Malawi.

[@lennylaa1686]

EU was a protectionist racket...that's why UK suffered from massive trade deficits with the EU.

[@lennylaa1686]

@@Dionysos640 EU protectionism never suited UK's global model. UK had world beating manufacturing and fishing..until EEC entry.

[@davidgreen6490]

Brexit was not about trade though??????

[@gloin10]

@@lennylaa1686 "EU protectionism never suited UK's global model"? What "...global model" as that? You are aware that the UK was classified as 'The Sick Man of Europe' before it joined the EEC in 1973. "UK had world beating manufacturing and fishing..until EEC entry"? No, it simply did NOT. if it did, it would never have been described as 'The Sick Man of Europe', you ignorant jingoist....

[@gloin10]

@@davidgreen6490 "Brexit was not about trade though??????" If not, what the hell was it all about?

[@justsayen2024]

In light of that honest conversation it seems like government is making the best of a overwhelming majority in Parliament, by eliminating human rights and diluting the media to be forced to fall in line, in order lay the foundation for whatever comes next.

[@guydreamr]

You mean Britain severing links with its largest trading partner might turn out to be bad for its economy? Color me surprised.

[@jonsimmons4150]

wot? the 169 countries in the world *NOT* IN THE EU AND WITH NO INTENTION OF REPLICATING IT? THAT TRADING PARTNER?

[@guydreamr]

@@jonsimmons4150 No, not that trading partner. I was referring to Britain's erstwhile largest and most proximate partner, the EU.

[@jonsimmons4150]

@@guydreamr i live in queensland, Australia. that is 23 hours plane flight away from london. -when i goto the shops to do my weekly shopping, i check out where items come from.. coles+ woolworths stock frozen pizzas.. - *from the UK* it is clearly written on the box. "made in UK" and the distributer is in Australia.. - i have a friend who owns a a food meals factory, not far- its in a area called molindiner.. i went in to see them 3 weeks ago- they were throwing some boxes away.. broccoli..they grow plenty over here as its warm and fertile land, never freezes, never snows on the boxes printed "produce of CHINA" chilled prepacked chinese broccoli imported and put into prepared meals in australia. they do 15k meals a week. chinese broccolli because it is cheaper any notions of "proximity" is B.S in buisiness. penny.. drops... slowly..

[@guydreamr]

@@jonsimmons4150 Modern shipping technology means goods can be shipped readily the world over, no doubt. Nevertheless, you don't have to be a shipping expert to realize it is going to be cheaper to ship goods through a 25-kilometer tunnel or over a channel than it is on the other side of the world.

[@jonsimmons4150]

@@guydreamr funny.. when i worked in manufacturing in the UK in a factory that made industrial welders in basingstoke-30kw pipe welders, the cabinets were made in the UK- then shipped to eastern europe to be painted, then sent back to the be fitted out and tested. my job. so, just the fact of sending large steel cabinets to eastern europe shipped and back again was cheaper than painting locally in buckinghamshire where there are companys that do this. i found it crazy- but i was told "it is much cheaper" just as buying the bits they needed from china. thos the quality wasnt there always

[@JRattheranch]

What? Lord (numptie) Frost is still beating the brexit drum and if course none of the downsides are his fault.

[@LetoxxIant]

The vaccine topic is so funy, Yes the UK was the first to carry out vaccines but was overtaken by 22 of the EU memberstates in % of pupulation vaccinated after 6 month. So the UK might have been the first but it was by far not the fastest.

[@cyberslim7955]

23:30 Correct, deepen and strengthening the Union to bring peace to the whole continent and then pick up the pieces after the UK falls apart. That might come faster then Sir Ivan Rogers thinks. 😁

[@jonsimmons4150]

Reality check!- More than one EU country is falling apart as of today.. - got a gas pipeline for sale?

[@physiocrat7143]

The EU has done a great job in bringing peace to Ukraine and the Balkans.

[@cyberslim7955]

@@physiocrat7143 Good luck with that assessment!🤣

[@briane5706]

Brexit - of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%.

[@Martin-bx1et]

Can someone please point me to the sensible, balanced analysis that shows how Brexit was ever a good idea? Anyone?

[@TesterAnimal1]

@honest john there isn’t any such document. Because there are no benefits to the people.

[@patrickmurray8483]

@@TesterAnimal1 That depends on which counrty you live in.

[@walkonhotcoals1277]

The fact of the matter is that my children were born as citizens of a European Union and the rights that gave them were stripped away from them. That in and of itself is one of the biggest removal of human rights in British history.

[@remainertears]

Freedom of movement to other countries is not a human right, it was an option within a trade agreement. You can still move to the EU if you want, it costs a bit but no right has been removed.

[@TAHeap]

@@remainertears You may not have regarded it as valuable, but however many times you deny it this was a *right* and it has now been removed. What you have written is abject nonsense. But you seem to think it's no problem as, according to you, the *rich* can still do it.

[@Tpaulissendougan]

I believe, sooner rather than later, the UK would join the single market and the customs union inplace of becoming a member. It is inevitable because erecting trade barriers that they did not have before is unsustainable. Norway and Switzerland, for example, are not members but do enjoy unimpeded free trade. You always do the most trade with your closest neighbors. All around the world you see examples of this.

[@muiresuilgorm3452]

B4, that we who live here will have to do a lot more suffering.

[@lennylaa1686]

We would have to pay billions again to Brussels and suffer FOM stealing British jobs and driving down British wages...not again...no thanks.

[@Tpaulissendougan]

@@lennylaa1686 I disagree. Norway is paying and they doing very well. Check on Norways economy. As I said the UK does more trade with The EU than the rest of the world combined. It’s inevitable that the UK will join the single market. If they don’t, it would be the UK that suffers.

[@uweinhamburg]

You are aware that no country can 'join' the SM or the CU?? Countries are allowed to apply for membership and if they fulfill all conditions and no existing member has a problem with them, they may be allowed to join!

[@Tpaulissendougan]

@@uweinhamburg I believe the UK may be an exception because they were already a member and left. I also believe it would happen because of the Northern Ireland border issue. Also the EU saves money on checks coming from the UK.

[@jounik]

06:28 Diversifying from a de facto world standard is not a benefit by itself, any diversification benefit would require there to be a plan to use that specific diversification for some specific purpose. Otherwise it just means providing substandard goods for a presumably lower price. 07:28 Deregulation just means accepting substandard goods for a presumably lower price, period.

[@chrisbailey7550]

Not necessarily. Regulations are big trade barriers. Allowing the importation of goods which are differently regulated certainly means cheaper goods, and possibly not even a reduction in quality.

[@frankhynd885]

The vast majority of British fishermen voted to leave the EU during the Brexit referendum. Fishermen now know that Brexit has been a disaster for the fishing industry. The workers in other British industries who voted for Brexit are worse off or unemployed because of leaving the EU. These were seduced by glib propagandists like Farage, Hannan and Boris Johnson. It would be appropriate here to quote George Carlin, the US comedian, who used to say “the average person is pretty stupid and just think that half the population is even more stupid than him”.

[@TheEvertw]

I wonder where he gets the figures for the "benefits" of regulatory relaxation from. Lowering regulations can make you more competitive in markets where regulations are lower, but closes markets where regulations are stricter. As the EU is by far the largest trading partner of the UK, this means that lowering regulations will mainly make it easier for other countries to export to you, while local production needs to maintain high standards in order not to lose their existing market. A company can not change its standards depending on who they produce for: they need to comply with the highest common denominator. This undercuts local production, which is exactly what we see happening in e.g. UK agriculture. Soon other branches of the economy will see the same effect. Also, new foreign markets can never make up lost exports to the EU, as it is the largest trading block in the world, conveniently placed at UK's doorstep. That is the biggest Brexit fallacy. There was nothing preventing companies from targeting those markets pre-Brexit. Economically, both short and long term, deregulation therefore makes no sense. That is not even talking about the social and environmental effects, as being able to compete with low-regulated markets means UK living standards will need to drop substantially. Which is exactly why the EU is raising standards: to improve living standards for its citizens. Which is why one of the very few examples of Brexit success we saw was a company exporting glass eel: a protected species that should not be trade in this way.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

Regulatory relaxation doesn't create bennefits. Regulation and the amount of it simply shifts costs, nothing more and nothing less. Lower regulation leads to cost being externalised, increased regulation shifts the burden to creator of the cost. It is much like energy in the universe, it can neither be created or destroyed, it simply changes state. There always needs to be a balance, shift that towards regulatory relaxation and workers, the environment, social health, freedom, competition carry more of the costs while eleviating the creator of the cost enabling them to become "more efficient". Shift it to the other side and the creator carries the cost making it's production more expensive but it eleviates the world around him from those costs. Cleaner environment and less polution, healthier population, fairer competition, more democratic society and many many other things. Not allowing some costs to be externalised would make any creation unaffordable, allowing all costs to be externalised creates a dystopian hellfire nothing is able to exist in. Cost and bennefits needs to be shared in a healthy fashion.

[@TheEvertw]

@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 That was deep and well considered. Thank you.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

@@TheEvertw np

[@3bebles]

All those hard Brexiters who kept shouting " Get used to it" or "project Fear" are like children when they suddenly discover the myth over Father Christmas and try not to show their huge disappointment. Pride is the only reason why so many refuse to recognise the facts in the same way that some of the betrayed children deliberately choose to continue believing in Santa even if they cover themselves in playground ridicule!

They're more like people who still think Santa is real but they're 26.

[@gillramsay1112]

I fundamentally disagree with the arguments for leaving. There were no gains to be made as the plan or should I say lack of plan has led us already to be the poor man of Europe. Working people having to feed their families from food banks, unable to pay their bills, choosing heating or eating. This has been a senseless push by the far right to take back sovereignty…we had sovereignty. Take control of our borders….we are an island we had control of our borders. This was rich carpetbaggers in this country looting the country…just look at the obscene amounts of money which has been “lost” during the pandemic and they are refusing to find it. I am so embarrassed to now call myself British. We are being led by a narcissistic mad man who is happy to lie and lie again without shame or rebuke who is mired in sleaze…quite simple revolting and stomach churning.

[@ems7623]

Nationalist lines-of-thought usually have a very sizable element of fantasy in them. It's strange to think of how very much countries nationalist political movements have defined our modern world. The only time they seem justified at all are when a peoplec really are living under the fist of a bigger abusive nation. In Europe, that's not actually been terribly often. Brexit is one of the silliest I've ever seen or read about.

[@scroggins100]

I can tell you one thing.. A lot of usually very calm people are getting really angry at this country being rudderless.

[@GordonLonghouse]

Regarding immigration,it has been the Australian experience that to have a liberal immigration program, the government must have “control” of the borders i.e. the ability to determine and control eligibility and entry into the country.

[@diogeneslamp8004]

The government already had control of the borders. The Leave campaign didn’t think to mention that.

[@QHATrent]

Given where the UK is now, I simply can't see how the country - and certainly the bulk of its people - could, going forward, ever feel properly safe and prosperous again. Someone please educate me.

[@lairddougal3833]

Kiwi here. I really enjoyed this substantive, knowledgeable coverage. Thank you.

[@jonsimmons4150]

its bullshit!- that guy should have quit it over a decade ago. flogging a dead horse for nearly 20 years.

[@nigelweir3852]

Typical , no mention of Northern Ireland when you mention Scotland in Europe

[@seanfallon4580]

If brexit is going so well why are half the population looking for Irish Passports 🤣🤣😍

[@kmadge9820]

The deal isn't causing trade war - the breaking of the deal by the UK is.

[@juanfran579]

The crazy thing about Brexit is that the Brexit promoters had so completely different and even opposing ideas that we can clearly see the desastrous results now as Brexit can mean high or low tax policies at the same time.

[@csharpe5787]

It's just a joke, brexit never had any potential. It was just about, no one tells us what to do. But that's not the way the world works, everybody has to work together to prosper.

[@Jamal-Ahmed786]

Brexiteers are in charge and they have the cheek to say its a remainers brexit

[@jonathananderson3990]

It's time for the uk to get out of brexit,and back in to the European union

[@georgemullens]

Fascinating interview, thanks New Statesman!

[@NewStatesman]

You're welcome! Thanks for your comment.

[@johnjeanb]

Sir Ivan Roger has a great view on European things. Indeed Britain is very different regarding leaving the EU at least on 2 counts: The UK is the sole country never invaded during WW2 (a strong motivation for the invaded countries to construct a peace and economic machine). The UK had a huge empire and many there have profound regrets of a period when Britain was imposing its rule to the world. True France has also a huge empire but because of the Algeria war and the Vietnam war, the colonial page was turned much faster and very few regret that period. For these reasons Britain never truely supported the political project and many British politicians were just trying to use the economic entity to their benefit. Brexit was brewing for a long time way before 2016 (end of Thatcher period). Also for these reasons, Britain believed it could impose its rules even when leaving (They need us more than we need them, We are not a rule-taker). Indeed Britain made such an arse of itself when leaving that it added a lot of cohesion to the EU. Truth is, the EU is not perfect, far from it BUT, politicians everywhere have this nasty habit: when something is good, it is thanks to THEM, when something is bad it is the EU's fault. Brexit set the records straight in many places in the EU. In the UK Brexit is like a religion and even in the face of obvious Brexit drawbacks will claim the happy Brexit fish, happy to be British.

[@justincharles2332]

Unfortunately for Britain, it fell for the myth of Brexit cakeism...

[@CarlosMartinsPT]

Don’t think Europe ever moved to undercut Nato. Eu defense has always been inline with nato, with only a difference regarding issues NATO would not address.

[@steeneugenpoulsen8174]

Seems to me like UK is using a Russia model, great they aren't also invading Ireland, but they are still going to see the "cream" start leaving the country. The rich people already has alternative passports. It's like one of those beach houses, where a scientist can tell the sea will eat enough of the beach that the house will fall in so many years. Having lost it's status as Russian crime money capital and EU money capital, what is really left... UK's problem is that it's small and insignificant, but because they used to be this nasty sun never sets empire, they are totally blind to the fact that they are mostly just some leftover imperial tyranny, the only saving grace is that they made it easier for the US/Russia to save the world from nazi germany.

[@muiresuilgorm3452]

Saudade.

[@runwiththerunners8152]

The reason for a thumping majority was against and anti Corbin rather than pro Brexit.

[@gregmason2760]

Who needs intelligent thoughtful people like this when we have heavyweight brains like Nadine Dorries and Jacob Rees-Mogg ruling over us?

[@ems7623]

This is one of the main weaknesses of democracy. Therevare few enforceable standards to become a parliamentarian or politician.

[@physiocrat7143]

The speaker is still looking through the telescope from the wrong end. He thinks that the main purpose of an economy is to make stuff and sell it to foreigners.

[@nanorider426]

In Denmark the extreme left and right are still going on about leaving EU but saying it more softly. The other parties which were partial to leaving don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole now. Excellent analysis and video. I'm personally sorry that Britain left because Denmark and Britain (and other smaller states) was on the sceptic side. We did question the EU positive side, particularly France, and held back on the more outlandish sides of EU. You can say we were a stable factor. That side is gone with Britain and now the EU leans fully to the other side.

[@scooby1992]

Fair point and totally agree .

[@drc4563]

A very clever man who knows the EU better than most. A lucid and well argued and structured analysis from someone who called this a long time ago. Thank you for sharing this with us.

[@greghamilton6681]

This is the sort of thinking that should have been engaged in before the referendum was held. David Cameron was in the same class of competence and responsibility as Boris Johnson.

[@diogeneslamp8004]

Hear hear!

[@kayedal-haddad]

I am still waiting for the Post-Brexit vision...

[@welshskies]

This is quite possibly the most depressing video I have seen on Brexit and demonstrates how the disconnect between individuals and politics can occur. To some of us living in the UK our European citizenship was a vital part of our identity and it was just taken away with little thought by those focused on "the big picture". The UK died with Brexit, independence for Scotland and Wales will happen.

[@happinesstan]

And you think by having your gvernment housed in another country is a solution to that disconnect. Or is it another way to exploit and grow that disconnect?

[@evolassunglasses4673]

We are European and always will be. The EU superstate is not Europe.

[@bryangeake5826]

@@evolassunglasses4673No the EU is an alliance of states, not a superstate there is no central executive power unlike the USA that does!

[@welshskies]

@@happinesstan For us in Wales much of our government is located in another country, England. At least as a sovereign state within the European Union (which is an alliance of sovereign states) we will have far more democracy and recognition than we do in Westminster. Many Tories deny that Wales even has a right to exist and would do away with our Senedd if they could.

[@welshskies]

​@@evolassunglasses4673 The European Union is not a superstate. Whilst I will always be a European I now no longer have all the personal rights and freedoms enjoyed by the majority of other Europeans because of people like Johnson and May. I was "ALLOWED" to visit my daughter in Germany last month, two years ago I had THE RIGHT to visit my daughter in Berlin.

[@thedrumdoctor]

What a balanced and pragmatic commentary from Sir Ivan. It’s clear now, leaving the EU isn’t impossible, but it is of paramount importance that it is managed by people far more capable and experienced with problem-solving/planning than the naïve instigators of the idea. Whilst emotion is a great motivator for votes, it plays no part in careful decision making and is no excuse for not having a plan.

[@stephenhodgson3506]

The problem was as Neil Kinnock said during the referendum campaign "you are trying to explain some very complex situations in a very short period of time as to why we should remain. While the Leave campaign can create dreams that don't have to be based on reality. Very few of the British public were ever aware of what the EU was about. When we joined industrial strife dominated the headlines. Followed by the Thatcher era when all we heard was how the EU was trying to take advantage of us as we tried to force the EU into the way we wanted it to operate. Then we had the European Exchange Rate Mechanism farce with Major. By the time Blair came to power the seeds of doubt about the EU had well and truly been sowed with virtual no education about how the EU worked. So instead of forty plus years of understanding what we were members of we got instead a six week crash course which was easily rebuffed by lies. What was never mentioned in the whole campaign was the European Union Medium and Small Business Development Fund, that UK companies had been drawing from for their Research & Development. A fund that in the last round of funding when we were members of that we paid into €5 billion but had withdrawn €8 billion from. A fund that currently has €85 billion that our European competitors can draw on. A fund that gave grants that didn't have to be paid back so that European companies could create jobs and opportunities. Small and Medium businesses now have to revert back to the old methods of R&D namely pay for it with profits or borrow from banks and have to pay back the loan plus interest. These are the very negative reasons that the EU Fund was set up to abolish. The sad thing that is rarely discussed is that if the Brexiters and right wing media realised their error, admitted it and we tried to re-join then we would be treated as a new applicant. As a new applicant we would have to accept the EURO as our unit of currency, agree to the free movement of people and would probably be told that all the concessions we had negotiated for decades would not be re-applied. We might even be made to make a financial deposit to deter us from trying to leave again if we ye again changed our minds.

[@davebento1548]

Interesting interview and good hands off interviewing.

[@ulicadluga]

15:56 - If many Brexiters intended to "curb" immigration (whether from a nationalist or racist sentiment), they certainly haven't achieved that, because immigration in a "free movement" geography would be self-limiting as a union's inequality decreased. The same can now not be said of extra-european immigration, as population growth accelerates and pressures from climate change, wars and resource shortages grow in third and second world countries.

[@markthomas328]

There are no brexit benefits at all.only hassle and inconvenience

[@patriciamoffat1542]

Something pertaining to fish fingers and USB cables are benefits that Mogg seems to have discovered, courtesy of Sun newspaper readers.

[@aacvieira]

The problem is not economic, it is political. And the British only know how to think politically, realistically (not including morals, not excluding propaganda). And that happens both at the exit and now when they put the case of re-entry into the EU. What happens is that the EU did not deliver to the UK what the UK wanted/needed. And Germany was the head of the continent, and the UK was put behind France, a disgrace. Therefore, Brexit. What is happening now is the change in perspectives resulting from the war in Ukraine. In particular, the perspective of the direct effects of sanctions: the impoverishment and deindustrialization of Europe, with the prospect of decapitating Germany, and significantly weakening France (and only with unnoticed aid, and small nudges, as usual by the United Kingdom, Boris). One and one, give... RU inside!

[@keithrodgers1030]

Brexit is working for a very few wealthy billionaires avoid labour & environmental laws plus the big bonus is avoiding offshore HQ business investigations.

[@jonsimmons4150]

Another "chemtrail" conspiracy... Uk pay up!! Plenty jobs!

[@jonsimmons4150]

Like branson and all the wealthy that tried to *STOP* brexit.. Those millionaires and billionaires you mean? Cheap imported labour running uk pay down? Gotta pay going rates for nannies and gardeners for their estates now!

[@williampatrickfagan7590]

Graveyard is full of people who could not be done without.

[@andrewrobinson2565]

Hi William. It sounds like sour grapes at the beginning but he goes much deeper, and he's right.

[@williampatrickfagan7590]

@@andrewrobinson2565 I agree.

[@user-qb7ms6vs7s]

I voted remain and wondered why my friend voted to leave. He told me it would be just like canceling a gym membership! Needless to say im very thankful the dutch government has given me a 5 year residency card as i registered before brexit. Lets see what happens. If i am wrong as a remainer i can always move back.

[@davetdowell]

And that's why I voted leave. Membership of the EU destroyed my country, filling it with people to whom it is entirely discardable, who care for nothing but themselves. Its why we need to ban the holding of dual nationaility, like other countries do.

[@physiocrat7143]

Terrible analogy. What were the benefits, for most people in the UK?

[@ulicadluga]

08:43 - there's an interesting "semantic" link here. "De-integrate" is a tautology. The closest logical word is "disintegrate", which carries an ominous meaning!