Why I Never Became Eastern

After I became convinced by the historic claims of Christianity concerning the person of Jesus, I started looking for a church to call my own and as I did, I quickly became confused by the disorienting variety of teachings and practices among different denominations and this forced me to confront questions about the divisions that exist within Christianity.
I started studying Church history and I quickly narrowed my focus to the division between Catholicism and Protestantism. Eastern Orthodoxy didn’t, at that time, register as a contender for one very simple reason.
I’m an English speaking white dude in a British commonwealth country.
There is a universality to Catholicism that doesn’t exist in the Eastern Orthodox churches. For me to become Eastern Orthodox, I’d have to join a Church with a very specifically ethnic or national identity.
When people ask me why I’m not Eastern Orthodox, I’m tempted to get into a theological throw down, but the easiest way to answer that is by pointing out that I’m not Russian, Ukrainian, Greek, or any other ethnicity that the Eastern churches in the city I live in serve.
A point of contention at all the major divisions in Christianity has been the focus on authority. So, the East West split focused on the authority of the Pope vs. other bishops and patriarchs. The protestant reformation was about the authority of the Church and the Pope vs. the exclusive authority of scripture, and the English reformation was about the authority of the Pope vs. the authority of the King. So, as you might guess, authority, how it’s defined, and where it resides, seems like a pretty essential component of the faith.
So in the case of the East West schism, there were a number of controversies that they were stuck on, but arguably, the most significant one was the disagreement over the authority of the bishop of Rome vs. that of the other patriarchs and bishops. Rome insisted that the bishop of Rome had a unique and universal authority over the entire Church, without which there would be no universal Church, as inherited from the authority of Peter. The Eastern Orthodox side was arguing that the bishop of Rome was a first among equals but only in an honorific way which meant that he had the same authority as the other patriarchs. So that was their position going into the controversy. OK, how true were they to their positions after the controversy had led to an actual division and schism? Well, the West still maintained the conviction that the bishop of Rome had a universal authority over the whole Church. But the East, did not continue to treat the Bishop of Rome as a first among equals. In fact, they excommunicated him which seems like a clear violation of their own claim that no autocephalous patriarch has authority over another. The honor of first among equals has since been designated to the Patriarch of Constantinople.
Jesus wanted his followers to be one as a sign of his divinity to the world. Between East and West, from what little I know of it’s history, I only have ever seen major attempts from the West to realize that unity. Through the councils of Lyon and Florence, the East’s bishops conceded Rome’s position on Papal Supremacy, the Filioque, and purgatory, but the unity that was struck fell apart when the Eastern delegates went home and succumbed to political pressure there.
Rome has always been the initiator of ecumenical dialogue, from what I’ve seen. It was at the first Vatican Council that the mutual excommunications of 1054 were lifted. It was the second Vatican council that made ecumenism a high priority for the Church moving forward which paved the way for the joint theological commission of East and West.
It was Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI who recited the Nicene Creed with Eastern patriarchs without the filioque. It was the bishop of Rome who first visited the East. It wasn’t until 1995 when the Patriarch of Constantinople finally visited Rome.
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[@BrianHoldsworth]

Thanks for all the comments. Many people have misunderstood the main arguments that I've offered in this video, so I've provided a follow up video with some clarification. Please watch that before commenting. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nardpKtjoM6Ifbc

[@SaleSarajlija]

Dear Brian, I appreciate you doing another elaborative video, but in all honesty, whatever you try to say people will hear what they want to hear not what is intended. As a former Orthodox, now Catholic, I have been dealing with these reactions for years, some of them almost hysterical, by literally completely reconstructing my words to fit their intention for the purpose of discrediting me and my spiritual choice. What lays behind it is the history of antagonism and many Orthodox in their comments here show that, plain and simply. Just look at the responses to my comment from 5 days ago. Regardless of how respectfully you try to present your point of view, they will find they way to discredit it, always stating the supposed historical, philosophical and theological "inaccuracies". Fine, if that's what they think, nobody here is forcing anyone to be one thing or the other (at least not on the Catholic side). You'll see, they will start pointing at other "inaccuracies" in your second video, or even worse, start accusing you of "insensitivities" to this or that. The first video was great, the second, too. From my point of view, I feel blessed to have access to your channel as it reflects my spirituality and identity. You do it in a respectful and inclusive manner to those who do not share your beliefs. Whether some of your critics here who "misunderstood" you do the same, people can judge by reading the comments. Take care!

[@sotieismihos3850]

I don't accept woman priest.

[@Quantum1008]

Alex and Brian, I am an Orthodox Christian, a convert from pentecostalism, and I am sorry you have had this experience. I know what you say is true and it is very sad. I fully respect these kinds of spiritual journeys and I think that the challenges you present to Orthodoxy are legitimate and need to be answered honestly not swept under the rug with counter attacks. Like you said, "Regardless of how respectfully you try to present your point of view, they will find they way to discredit it, always stating the supposed historical, philosophical and theological "inaccuracies". " Yes we need to have some difficult conversations in the next few centuries. But I regret this kind of triumphical blame shifting! What Brian has said is true and the Orthodox need to seriously address these problems rather than attack the messenger for being wrong in principle because he is not already one of us. As for myself, I don't see the differences between classic Catholicism and classic Orthodoxy as ultimately irreconcilable. Where most seem to see only ruptures, I see synchronicities. However, I must say, that I cannot presently convert, together with my family, to a "family of the catholic churches" that is currently suffused with neo-catholic church of nice, post-modern, pro-homosexual, globalist, pro-contraception, political corruption, and liturgical chaos (Mass of Paul VI). In fact the attempt to canonize Paul VI confirms that the vatican is corrupt, at least to me. I REALIZE THAT TRUE CATHOLICISM IS SAFE FROM THIS. And that these are troubles the Church is going through, but will not ultimately destroy her. And I realize that Orthodoxy has it's own problems. I RESPECT YOUR WILLINGNESS TO STAY AND FIGHT. And I look forward to the day that true Catholicism will emerge at the end of this sad civil war. Then and only then will a reunion be possible.

[@MajevickiVihor777]

In the Book of Revelations, I believe Catholic church is the one with Jezebell in it. And you are making arguments. Wrong doings. Plain and simple. You are saying that this is why you chose - but you are spreading your views that are not always correct and in that way manipulating others. Why did you really make this video is the real question? Did you even consider that it will have impact on someone? Why didn't you say that you are maybe wrong on all of these things?

[@TaxmanGoki]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eaGZqXtjaLaHjLM

[@neiloshodges2816]

There is no ethnic requirement to be a member of the Orthodox Church.

[@nikolabakich9709]

yes but he is right about the orthodox churches being national churches they argue with each other im from the balkans i know

[@michelledalenaa]

Of course not. However, you're sheltered (and lucky) if you haven't ever experienced being the 'wrong' ethnicity Orthodox among a group of ethnic gatekeepers. I can 100% see why he wouldn't bother after his experience.

[@eldermillennial8330]

michelledalenaa That’s what was my last hang up with becoming Orthodox after losing my faith in Papal Infallibility. Then I discovered the Western Orthodox, or what Roman Catholics OUGHT to be. The Rites are a Confederated brotherhood with valid Ecumenical Councils being the ultimate authority. This also appeal to my Minarchist values. Corruption can’t super concentrate in any one area. I can visit my siblings houses but the Western Rite is my home.

[@1985LISS]

But Catholics are heretics like Protestants too. The holy sephulcure only lights for an orthodox patriarch not for any leader of any other Christian denomination and in fact it only lights for a Greek and no one else. God wants to show the rest that Orthodox is the purest available and we must follow the ancient paths. GREEK orthodox does not stop you from becoming orthodox. It invites you to participate.

[@RGTomoenage11]

Neilos Hodges They claim scripture is not important to understand but they wanna talk about heresies when they don’t even study scripture.

[@walterclements5460]

Orthodox Christianity is for everyone. Not just Russians or Greeks. It doesn’t have to be about ethnicity

[@bronwynstirkul3549]

Walter Clements amen, @Brian holdsworth you got a bad ethnic parish, populated by people who don’t really understand their faith. Thankfully these are becoming less common, our Orthodox Church has multiple ethnicities all coming together.

[@RafaelCosta-fy7tb]

He didnt say that.

[@user-em9qy4jj1e]

True

[@ChristopherDancy]

I attend a Russian Orthodox church and there is no Russian anywhere in my genes and the people in this parish could not be nicer to my family and I.

[@billyhw5492]

Sure, in theory, but in practice they are all ethnically monolithic churches.

[@motchie]

Orthodox Church is universal. I'm Indonesian, and for me Orthodox Church is not ethnically centered.

[@TheMelopeus]

I am Romanian and i have seen this inclination of nationalism. I don't like it, we should be more modern but this things evolved after many many years of opression.. I will fight to change this mentality because we must all be one in Christ and not divided by stupid nations..

[@motchie]

I agree that Churches need to be one, nationality is a construct but ethnicity is not, culture is not. There are different people of ethnic and culture and churches in some area need to have the understanding with those different ethnics, also we have different languages, churches need to adopt but not consumed by these cultures.

[@TheMelopeus]

exactly!

[@Onneukbaar]

Alrich Brata same for me

[@spartanastas5560]

I agree, we should all be Orthodox and accept everyone. But both sides of this coin can be to blame. A Greek Orthodox Church that was started by Greeks has Greek traditions in it. Those who come to this type of Church should respect that the founders were Greek, the majority of Parishioners are Greek so they will be doing Greek things in the Church. On the other hand, Greeks should not be angry that other nationalities want to come into the Church. Churches split because converts want the Ethnicity to end, or the Ethnics want to do what they've always done. So if you enter a Russian, Antiochean or Greek Church, Accept the ethnicity. They are not pretending that it's Biblical, it's just how they've always done it. Orthodoxy is not about being "Modern" and Change is exactly what created 40,000 new denominations... So be careful about the Change that you're looking for. You can't enter someone's home and fight to remodel it. Liturgy is the important part and ethnicity really doesn't interfere with liturgy too much these days. Most Churches are half English and Half Greek, or Russian etc. So Liturgy is why we are in Church. If you are angry at anything else and you leave because of Ethnicity, then you aren't in Church for the right reason. You don't have to get alone with people during coffee hour.

[@robertgroover3316]

As a person who travels a lot for work, I've been to several orthodox churches, Greek, Russian, Ukrainian, and Serbian. Not once have I had a negative experience from them. I have always felt welcomed there.

[@vladimirmilosavljevic6628]

But that doesent fit in his agenda?

[@AFreckledAngel]

Curious if you are a blonde or a redhead, though?

[@robertgroover3316]

@@AFreckledAngel actually I'm redish blonde

[@LOCATIONREDACTED]

@@Bb-pw1zi that's a shame, what was your experience?

[@ntmn8444]

@@robertgroover3316 that’s why bro. I think Greeks no, but if I try going to the Russian orthodox churches around here I might stick out like a sore thumb.

[@yuefei8711]

I am so sorry to see such division, between the two churches in the comments. As long as we fight amongst ourselves, satan is winning. Let’s pray again so that our reunion may see the light.

[@gman3841]

@Al Furqon Islam appeared in 7th of century, from Christian belief

[@MortenBendiksen]

@Al Furqon There is actual evidence that the Quran has been changed many times over. And those who even discuss it get death threats. Islam is not open about anything. Deception is even explicitly permitted in the tradition if done in Islam's favour. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[@stephenson19861]

@@1985LISS You should be. I am a catholic, I respect orthodoxy, it's theology and spiritual practices. As someone who finished masters degree in theology I can at least tell you that we never had any lectures agains orthodoxy. I wouldn't go around converting orthodox christians nor do I expect us ro suddenly become one. But I would like to see the fighting stop. The world hates Christ, we both profess our love for Christ, for Trinity. Each and every time we hurl insults against each other, we make the enemies of Christ stronger.

[@stephenson19861]

@@1985LISS And for the persecutions from the west, please keep in mind tgat crusaders attacked and sacked catholic cities as well...

[@1985LISS]

When you learn of a faith. Study the history first. Down the line God shall provide the truth in your heart and go by the faithful not the leaders because even leaders become corrupt. You won’t go to hell because your not orthodox but orthodox is a more narrow path to Jesus so it being strict as it has preserved the 2000 yrs of tradition it has kept itself as it always was so it just makes you stronger to fight evil!!!

[@Catalin207]

We do not discover God through a certain way of thinking, but through a certain way of life. This is Orthodoxy, a way of life.

[@MikeHawksBig69]

“SPQR”

[@sebathadah1559]

The Catholic Orthodoxy yes.

[@HIMYMTR]

@@yusukesmokes2398 Orthodox are polytheist heretics who do yoga to experience "God"

[@yusukesmokes2398]

@@HIMYMTR no they don’t can you explain why you’re so rude and what you mean yoga?

[@HIMYMTR]

@@yusukesmokes2398 Look into hesychasm, they gaze at their navel all day and do breathing techniques to experience God's "uncreated energies" This is hinduism not Christianity. and no i am not being rude, the Catholic church in its infallible capacity always recognized eastern schismatics as heretics,

[@lindat4294]

I'm a black American living in the American South who chose Orthodoxy over Catholicism. Yes, there are very ethnically oriented Orthodox parishes, but there is the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) that uses all English in its services. I attended an Antiochian parish that used all English. You can't make a decision based on a visit to one church. I know a monk in Scotland starting an Orthodox monastery there using English and read of a native Welsh Orthodox priest. There are many Orthodox parishes in Africa, and places like Guatemala. Don't judge a book by its cover. There's much more to Orthodox Christianity.

[@theresurrectionandthelifem4971]

Da Bome If it pushe you out of catholicism what did you become now?

[@theresurrectionandthelifem4971]

Linda Tutcher God Bless You!

[@RabbiKolakowski]

Does OCA exist in Canada? I have to ask my friend who is an OCA priest

[@arsenioss7020]

Catholics and Orthodox are brothers for life

[@richcook2007]

I am a multi racial American and belong to the Orthodox Church. Our Patriarch NEOFIT is in Bulgaria. We are 90% converts with two families at St. Tikhon's seminary. We are not focused on Bulgarian anything. Only living the Christian life through the Orthodox Church.

[@georgedakar9635]

I'm Arab and Orthodox.

[@nickhaddad9778]

So am i!!!

[@Vuk637]

Love From Serbia Bro!

[@melhemaboutrad3925]

@ميشال خوري 😂

[@melhemaboutrad3925]

​@Slavic Melody bro middle eastern christians should not called as arabs , one of reasons is we cannot belong a community that murdered us

[@georgios7191]

Greek Levantine (rûm) and Greek Melkite Catholic here

[@matheusmotta1132]

Dude, the Eastern Orthodox didn't excommunicate the Pope. The Pope excommunicated the Orthodox and the Orthodox excommunicated the Pope back

[@enlightenedsoy-basedneohum9118]

Matheus Motta Vatican 2 is an apostate church which isn’t Catholic anyway it’s abundantly clear it’s the schismatic on , Francis is a heretic and thus not a valid Bishop of Rome

[@berwynsigns4115]

@@enlightenedsoy-basedneohum9118 You're dumb

[@user-et8vm9cc3t]

You should say that the other patriarchs all together excommunicated him.

[@LB_die_Kaapie]

@@enlightenedsoy-basedneohum9118 so wrong..you sedaventacists are a pain in the Church!

[@alexanderpodgorski5449]

So they excommunicated Pope

[@NovelistVampireGirl]

You're wrong on this one. You don't have to be Russian or Greek or any other specific cultural background to be an Orthodox Christian, I'm an English speaking, American born, mostly British by heritage, person, and yet I have never felt out of place in my parish because of that fact. The faith is universal, yes there is a cultural aspect to Orthodoxy perhaps to a greater extent than Catholicism. In the Orthodox church, not unlike in Catholicism you have regional bishops who take care of all parishioners within a certain country or region, AND the areas where that community moves and evangelizes. So it's not a matter of the Patriarch being universal, it's that the parish we are worshipping in and the community we are apart of was established by people who were under the authority of that patriarchate when they came over. Now, it could certainly be argued that it is time for Orthodox populations in certain western countries where the Church has a foothold, to establish their own diocese and I would be among the first to agree with that argument. The excommunication of the Bishop of Rome is more complex that you've made it sound, he was excommunicated because he believed himself to have the power to enforce changes in certain matters of faith and practice for the whole church, when every single other time something like that was even up for discussion, a council was called, Pope Leo IX just went and did this to throw his weight around and test the new authority that he was claiming. He actually sent messengers with a papal bull excommunicating Patriarch Mikael I for not submitting to his authority and demanding that they followed the process of actually communicating with each other before these sorts of changes were made. Makael I undersrabibly took this to mean that the Bishop of Rome wasn't interested in talking or in resolving the conflict in a reasonable and Christ-Like way and sent those same messengers back to Rome with his own document of excommunication, in response to that. As for your experience, that does sometimes happen, my church is Ukrainian as well and the response that I got was they were just as surprised, but in a good way like: "Oh my Gosh! New Person! She wants to Join us! Yay!" so what I get from hearing your experience is that, that parish was not welcoming, that was wrong, that was on them, please don't judge all Orthodox Christians or the attitudes of the church as a whole by people who act that way.

[@AM-os4ty]

"You're wrong on this one" How do you argue someone's personal experience? Because he walked into a Ukrainian Orthodox church and it was awkward. You don't get to negate "This is what happened to me" as long as the story sounds reasonable. "he was excommunicated because he believed himself to have the power to enforce changes in certain matters of faith and practice for the whole church" Yes, because the Bishop of Rome believed himself to be the seat of Peter, which honestly isn't under dispute. Peter made hard decisions along the lines. The issue was that the Eastern Bishops didn't like the concept of someone really being in charge, rather than 1st among equals. "that was on them, please don't judge all Orthodox Christians or the attitudes of the church as a whole by people who act that way." A generically Orthodox church will say "Yay!". A Greek Orthodox Church with a Russian (or anyone else) on their door will quite logically point them to the church down the street. If you've ever watched "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", one thing that falls out is the way they turn the boyfriend into a Greek man is to baptize him the Greek Orthodox church. It's quite logical.

[@NovelistVampireGirl]

Again, not always. It's not about the kind of parish, it's about the people within that Parish and their attitude towards converts. I would imagine that an OCA Parish (Orthodox Church of America) would be least likely to have that issue, but I wouldn't know because there isn't one in my city. The one I attend is Ukrainian like the one he went to and other than the surprise factor our two experiences couldn't have been further apart. I am sick and tired of this misconception that there are no Western converts, or that we aren't welcomed, it's not a universal truth.

[@AM-os4ty]

"I am sick and tired of this misconception that there are no Western converts, or that we aren't welcomed, it's not a universal truth." I never that thought at all. In fact I knew you had Baptists, at the very least, incoming who wanted orthodoxy but couldn't stomach the idea of being Catholic. But...you will need to reconcile yourself to the idea that when Orthodox Churches have modifier in front of them, like "Greek" or "Russian" it will be off putting to anyone who is not Greek, Russian, or whatever. It's the way it is. Meanwhile, I wish I could convince people that Catholics aren't all about dopey communists Priests who molest children in their off days, endless Rosary beads, or have seemingly every other evangelical call me a pagan or not Christian while not noticing you or the Anglicans or the Lutherans. But it is what it is. We all have our crosses to bear.

[@NovelistVampireGirl]

There's no reason for it to be off putting, at all.

[@AM-os4ty]

Hmm... if you started a club called "The Daughters of the Revolution", do you wonder why men don't want to join? Or women who can't trace their lineage back that far? I think it's a fair cop.

[@FunnyBlackHole]

You seem to misunderstand a lot abou the Orthodox Church

[@jesusthroughmary]

Please elaborate

[@christinadelacroix2370]

anyone can be orthodox ..there are scores of Americans and English in England who are Greek orthodox..even some of the Mainsteam books on Greek Orthodoxy are written not by greeks or russians..like Timothy Ware who became orthodox. anyway Jesus told me Orthodox so that's what i became and it's a gorgeous way to be a Christian i have found

[@patrickmartin8783]

Christina I’m a American born kid who’s joining Greek Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is for everybody

[@terioze9]

@@patrickmartin8783 How come suicides and abortions are so prevalent in Orthodox countries?

[@patrickmartin8783]

terioze9 because there is a divide between the church and the government

[@TheLadyPlantagenet]

I’m Romanian and orthodox and I am terribly sorry for what you went through with these ignorant parishoners. For this reason I go to an English-speaking Orthodox Church in London where’s there people of all nationalities and races. Praise the lord.

[@mikeiannucci7931]

I think the Ukrainian church he visited might have been schismatic. Because the only canonical church in Ukraine is the UOC under Metropolitan Onuphry and they do not have many churches under their authority outside of Ukraine.

[@Kinotaurus]

Excellent point@@mikeiannucci7931

[@Hanna_W]

It isn't always available everywhere, in some areas only very ethnic churches are available for everyone and you will have to endure sticking out as a sore thumb if you convert to Orthodoxy.

[@chriscollins2938]

I've been attending a Serbian Orthodox Church very friendly. Orthodox is for everyone.

[@datboi3136]

@@ivkekosovo So true

[@pana9366]

Yes brother, it is for everyone.May God help in every way.

[@foreveryoung9564]

@Ante Srz Its easier to just say fairy tales and be arrogant than debate your point of view fairly, nationalistic Croats are the biggest truth escapers in the Balkans, you deny that you are OG genocidal people of the Balkans, you love democracy and liberalism, but when the cameras are off you are proud about genocide that you did, when the Nazis arrived in Cro you threw flowers on them "The Ustashe regime systematically murdered approximately 300,000 to 500,000 Serbs out of whom up to 52,000 died at the Jasenovac concentration camp, according to current estimates." source Wikipedia I did not make this out, look it up Lies are the best thing ever, they ultimately lead to truth, I don't know how can you live with yourself or you are too dumb to realize that lies are the essence of your national identity

[@nikolabakich9709]

@@ivkekosovo the serbian orthodox church had the idea of a greater serbia and guess they are chetniks too

[@larryfine4950]

Islam is the exact same so that's why it's so corrupt

[@George-we5yu]

This is so wrong. Orthodoxy is for everyone, there are orthodox Chinese, Japanese​, Indian Pakastani, Columbia etc...

[@johnb4632]

George Papadopoulos; So who has the keys to heaven. Athens/Jerusalem/Moscow or Rome. One office was given one main office. In the US you look to the president.In Canada you look to the Prime Minister.In Britain you look to the Prime Minister.For heaven we look to the Papacy.

[@pupak7433]

They are just stupid cities, piles of bricks, they don't have keys, bishops that uphold Orthodox Faith have the keys.

[@johnb4632]

What about the office of Peter. Now the House of David is like, you know, the House of Bourbon. It's a dynastic reference. The House of David is the Davidic kingdom, the Davidic dynasty. We know this because David has been dead for hundreds of years when this is happening in Isaiah 22, "I will give you the key of the House of David. He shall open and none shall shut, and he shall shut and none shall open. He will become a throne of honor to his father's house." Look at all of the symbols of dynastic authority that are being given to this individual. First of all, an office. Second, a robe. Third, a throne and fourth, keys, the key of the House of David, these royal keys.This is in Rome the papacy. Romans 1;7 7 To all that are at Rome, the beloved of God, called to be saints. Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

[@mihai5456]

Christ has the keys to heaven. We Orthodox look to Christ for heaven, not to this or that bishop.

[@johnb4632]

Marius Filip; Well Milan is the fashion capital of the world lol.

[@danthumu2211]

Am a Kenyan and all my life an orthodox... Orthodox is universal

[@gregorypilau3530]

What is Orthodox??? The only Universal Church which is publicly known and acknowledged is Catholic...Check the world records...Correct me but Orthodox is only found in some East European and its proximity...Apart from that Orthodox church does not exist...

[@geneschmidt8308]

@@gregorypilau3530 ...1000 years of existence prior to the Catholic split says otherwise

[@geneschmidt8308]

FightPeople you should just read more history about orthodoxy and also the Coptic church and how it has been the buffer for your Catholic church's survival from Islamic occupation. Just listen to yourself "yea well how big is your church? If it isn't big then it doesn't count"... is this what you're trying to imply? Between Ethiopia, Egypt, Romania, Russia, Greece.... Christians separate from you heretical power lust Catholic church which asserted itself as an empire over the world and led to the bastardization that is Protestantism of which it's founders genuinely consider your popes to be the literal antichrist because of their countless crism against humanity.... the Christians separate from this mess are MANY. Have you ever considered why your Catholic church is so big? Do you know anything of the genocides committed by it in the Americas 400 years ago? Or even the genocides it committed against the orthodox church during the crusades? Like seriously bro you have the internet... this information is just a click and 30 minute away.... don't be so ignorant please.

[@palamaro1603]

@FightPeople Yes, for instance there was one a few years ago.

[@TheWockComp]

Catholicism by definition is universal

[@vonschlief3809]

Keep in mind that Orthodoxy is still relatively new to the West and has been brought by Eastern European immigrants. Catholic Churches used to be more nationally based as well; in the US you had churches with congregations that were a majority demographic for many years - German, Italian, French etc and over time they mixed together. I think a similar thing will eventually happen to Orthodox churches. That be said Orthodoxy is and always was meant to be decentralized, as compared to the Catholic centralized structure

[@Elemenohpea440]

There were ethnic neighborhoods and still are, but the Mass was in Latin in every church regardless of their ethnicity

[@vonschlief3809]

@@Elemenohpea440 Orthodoxy has always operated in whatever the local language was. The first 1000 years of Christianity the church was set up in a decentralization fashion

[@zsedcftglkjh]

Yes, that's how missionary work goes. Catholics and Protestants have churches across the globe, while Orthodox are ABYSMAL at spreading the good Word.

[@derkuchenmeister]

​@@Elemenohpea440 yes so everyone could equally not understand what was going on

[@SJ-vd1jh]

@@derkuchenmeister I’m Catholic, but this got an LOL out of me.

[@zacpalmer61]

I’m a British/German and have been Greek Orthodox my entire life and the church has never had a problem with my ethnicity, personal interested to see other people’s opinions

[@user-sy5dk9dj6v]

Serbian Ortodox here, you are our brother and welcome in any Serbian Ortodox church in the world. I guarantee you that. Your ethnicity, language, etc is not a problem. Like a said, you are our Ortodox brother!

[@brianeibisch6025]

Hi, I’m an Australian of German ancestry but go to the local Greek Orthodox Church that being named, believe it or not, St Nicholas. I have always found the Greek people to be a warm and welcoming group and along with me there is a French family, an ex Canadian and his daughter, and older English/Australian. Of course many of the Greeks have married into Aussie families and Aussies have married into Greek just like in the film, “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”. Thing is, if you get to know people they will get to know you and as Christians if you’re happy to pray with them they are happy to pray with you. Of course any community with a strong sense of culture and history is not going to give that up easily, nor should they but if “outsiders” show respect then they are treated as friends.

[@heidipaulus3701]

i am a swiss blond hair and I am getting baptised our day 27 before our Easter, they do russian and then english it is just beautiful

[@austinfranz2563]

I'm sorry you had a poor experience within the orthodox church. I'm an American who is German ethnically. I go to a Greek orthodox cathedral and I've never been so accepted in any atmosphere like I am in this one. Orthodoxy is for everyone

[@tiffany-sheriwageman.3702]

An American with German ethnicity and I am pondering about a religious change in the next year. Glad that you made your comment.

[@CPATuttle]

It wasn't about a poor experience in the Orthodox Church that made his decision smh

[@br.m]

No it's not. Orthodox Christians hate me and always attack and insult me.

[@bobbobb4804]

I'm of Mexican ancestry and I go to an Antiochian church, and I've felt accepted even when I visited Russian and Greek Orthodox churches

[@yiannisroubos8846]

So you won’t submit to a Greek patriarch but you will to an Italian one?

[@1985LISS]

Greeks and Aramaic were the first languages of the bible. When Jesus saw the Greeks coming towards him he uttered " now came the time my name will be glorified". That is a very serious statement. God loved the GREEKS so we are the first to recieve the holy light and spread it to the rest of the Orthodox world. May God shine his light on new comers. God wants to see all his people in one faith, the true ancient paths and the Orthodox did preserve this for 2000 years even with the persecution by barbarians and fellow Christians . The Crusades

[@RafaelCosta-fy7tb]

As peter was living in Rome, obviously, he was the bishop there. Jesus gave peter the keys. Then, all roman bishops are successors of peter. All other bishops of places which peter founded cannot be his successors as peter left bishops there at the time.

[@DysmasTheGoodThief]

Rafael Costa wrong

[@drewfisher1619]

I imagine the near east would be much better place if only the muslims didn't wipe out the old greek colonies there.

[@someguy9571]

@@RafaelCosta-fy7tb St. Peter was also bishop of Antioch, a very major jurisdiction in early Christianity; even St. Paul was sent out as a missionary from Antioch. So why don't Catholics make the same claim about Antioch that they do about Rome?

[@kyriljordanov2086]

My priest is a black man from Alabama and a convert to Orthodoxy. By your reasoning he should be a minister in some AME holiness church. I'm glad he wouldn't agree with you.

[@louisstamas6672]

Congratulations! You're the first to bring insult and American politics into this discussion! Trump much?

[@jennifermcdaniel9531]

As a black woman from New York and a former convert to Orthodoxy only because of my previous Anti-catholic bias, I would say that this man should probably do more research on exactly what the Orthodox and Catholics say and look at the history from both sides unbiased. The Catholic Church is the only Church that has representation from all of the ancient churches both east and west. NO OTHER CHURCH CAN SAY THAT!

[@kirkcavenaugh758]

Robert Kyril Jordan ew

[@troysamson8240]

tim spangler wrong, GOD gave the bishops authority, protestanism is a continuous rebellion against the church

[@troysamson8240]

tim spangler faith alone is not in the bible, you're the son of luther

[@LovedbyJesus23]

I definitely understand what you’re saying in regards to ethnicity in the Orthodox Church. I’m African American, what church would I be able to attend? I love how Universal the Catholic Church is. All are welcomed💖 Thanks for sharing🥰

[@nuzzi6620]

I’ll never understand the hang-ups people have about national churches (that is, if they actually do any research into why the situation in the West is the way it is). Orthodoxy is the One True Faith, and every single Orthodox Church believes the exact same thing and worships in virtually the exact same way. The language is different in different countries because-surprise-they’re different countries! While the Catholics stuck to their Latin no matter where they went, leaving the masses to orally understand nothing that was being read or chanted in their services, Orthodox missionaries laboriously translated all the services, hymns and prayers into the native tongue of whatever culture they were ministering to. In fact, as an example, the Cyrillic script used to write almost all the languages of Eastern Europe was invented by two missionary saints, Cyril (after whom it’s named) and Methodius! Over time, as these local churches develop in their respective nations, they become big enough to necessitate local governance. So they become “national” churches. They’re all in communion with each other, of course, and believe the same things, of course; literally nothing changes. Things only get tricky when you fast-forward to modern-day immigration to Western countries, particularly in North America. It’s rather complicated, but essentially immigrants come from all over the world to the brand-new country of the USA, at a time when they’re all still adapting to using English as a lingua franca with other immigrants and using their native tongues within their own communities. Each community brings priests and bishops from their old countries and establish churches, because the Russian churches (which were in America before any other Orthodox were, as they were colonizing Alaska) don’t work too well for people who only speak Greek, or Serbian, or Arabic, etc. It’s a tragedy, indeed, that nowadays we in America will often have several bishops in the same city (which is against the canons, which mandate one bishop per city), but the concept of America and immigration to it was a new concept and nothing like anything else in history before it. We’re working on it, but it doesn’t change the history and tradition of the Church and the fact that Orthodoxy is the religion of the apostles, preserved faithfully and in full throughout the ages. I would suggest visiting your local OCA (Orthodox Church in America) parish for more information, and certainly before making any decisions about which church you’d like to join in the end. OCA is great if you want an English-speaking parish that is super welcoming to inquirers. It’s also the only native American Orthodox jurisdiction (rooted in the very first Russian missionary expeditions to Alaska and America in the 1700’s, even before the founding of the United States as a country). Any other Orthodox parish is fine, but that’s what I’d recommend. I’m a Canadian of Ethiopian descent and I’ve had no problems. I’ve found my OCA parish to be the most multicultural and welcoming church I’ve ever been in. I’m confident you’ll have the same experience. Now that’s universal. God bless you on your journey, sister.

[@LovedbyJesus23]

@Christus Rex I understand that Orthodoxy is for everyone because Christianity is for everyone. And I know there are Orthodox people around the world. What I’m saying is there is no general Orthodox Church, for everyone regardless of ethnicity. And when it comes to ethnicities there is no African American Orthodox Church. If there is a general Orthodox Church or an African American Orthodox Church, please let me know🥰

[@LovedbyJesus23]

@@nuzzi6620 Thanks for explaining all that to me!💖 I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having national churches & I can understand why but why isn’t there just a general Orthodox Church? If that’s something they’re working on that’s great!🙆🏽‍♀️ I just feel like if you’re not that ethnicity & walk into that Church they’re not going to be welcoming & make you feel like you don’t belong. Kinda like what Brian was saying about his experience. If it’s not like that I’m sorry for misunderstanding. I’ve always wanted to go to an Orthodox Church to at least visit.😢 I will look up OCA!🙏🏽💖 Thank you & God Bless you too.🥰🥰🥰

[@LadyMaria]

You could attend any you want.. My Greek Parish had a lot of African Americans, even Asians.

[@LadyMaria]

@@LovedbyJesus23 Why would there be an African American Orthodox Church? There's no need for that. We already have the Orthodox Church in America. Segregation based on race is just weird.

[@annmckenzie6679]

I am from Serbia and I am orthodox. I go to the church in my country and when I'm in Greece I go to the "greek" church and pray like usual, same goes for Romania, Russia, Macedonia... There is no ethnicity in orthodox church. You have the wrong impression about that.

[@annmckenzie6679]

@@pennsyltuckyreb9800 Honestly, it is very hard to believe and understand what I've read

[@cupocity303]

That's bullshit and you know it. What orthodox church is there that doesn't have their Nationality's name attached to it?

[@annmckenzie6679]

@@cupocity303 I really don't care about that. It is one God, one faith.

[@tadijafr]

@@cupocity303 Dude it's literally like that I'm also Serbian and i prayed at Greek and Romanian orthodox churches like at those in Serbia. It's not really about nationality the only important thibg is that it's orthodox church.

[@thekristofsbergledger9758]

@@cupocity303 You mean like other churches?

[@corinthcorinth6995]

Brian, you have stated so many things in your reasoning that is contradictory. One of the biggest fallacies in your thought process is the fact that you state that you did not want to become Orthodox because your ethic identity did not seem to fit into the identities of the parishes you entered, but then you attack the orthodox Church for preserving the ethnic identities of a people that were attacked and murdered by Catholics, Muslims, Communists and others because of their refusal to give up their faith and ethnicity. If you truly had the mindset that the church should transcend ethnicity, then you would have been blinded to those things yourself, but it appears that you may have been projecting what was already in your heart. Secondly, you stated that the Orthodox Patriarchates excommunicated the pope of Rome, but it was the pope of Rome who FIRST excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople simply because the Patriarch refused to accept a new and foreign idea into the Church, namely papal supremacy. When the tomb of the pope was delivered into the Hagia Sophia and laid on the alter by the bishop sent from Rome, one of our Orthodox bishops chased the Roman delegate for miles pleading with him to retract the excommunication and begging him to see the damage it would do to Christianity, and it was all to no avail, since the West had already decided that they were infallible! Thirdly, if you would have read the teachings of the holy fathers of the Church, and not simply used your fallen reasoning you would have seen that Christ's prayer about unity was answered immediately, since there has always been a unity in the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic ORTHODOX Church, and it has always existed. You should also remember that the Lord Jesus also taught about a falling away, and warned us to be aware of the wolves in sheeps clothing. Rome fell away from the true church, but its falling away did not impact the unity of the church, which is unified in Christ, and not in the pope. Please do yourself a big favor and start reading the early church fathers and all your fallen reasoning will be healed, corrected and illumined. St. Paul says that he would give up his very salvation for the sake of his fellow Hebrew people that had not yet received Jesus as the Messiah. Does that make him an ethnophile? Loving the ethnic identity that God made you is not a sin, but it is a sin if that ethnicity prevents you from joining His Holy Church!

[@e.rutger6611]

Corinth Corinth Can you (or anyone) direct a new convert to the literature that defends your ideas here? I never knew there was so much history in the church.

[@mitrovdan]

Thank you corinth, very well said! !!

[@mikeporro3311]

Agreed, I converted from RC to Orthodoxy 4 years ago to OCA Ukrainian/Russian Orthodox Church. Liturgy in all English. Did it take me out of my comfort zone to go there and speak with the Priest and consider Converting? U bet. I am now a server, Council member and Maintenance coordinator at my Parrish. I am not usually one to quote movie lines but "The Power of Christ Compels You!" I always urge people to Step out of their comfort zone and to come and see.

[@wms72]

@@e.rutger6611 You can find this history in historian Warren Carroll's "The Building of Christendom. " www.amazon.com/Building-Christendom-324-1100-History-vol/dp/0931888247/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=history+of+Christendom&qid=1557200546&s=gateway&sr=8-3

[@wms72]

Corinth Corinth Papal supremacy was never a novel idea. St. Augustine of Hippo wrote of Papal supremacy in the 4th century. Before that, St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote of it on his way to be martyred in Rome about 107 A.D. The Patriarch Michael was usurping papal power and was politically motivated because Constantinople was the seat of imperial power while Rome was just a backwater town in his time.

[@joshua_wherley]

I appreciate your comments, Brian. I converted from Lutheranism to Orthodoxy, but that was not without a brief stay in considering Roman Catholicism. I empathize with you on the issue of ethnicity.

[@dave1370]

I am sorry for your departure from the true Apostolic tradition.

[@Marcus-rs6fr]

@@dave1370 Why?

[@awake3083]

@@dave1370You’re a funny guy

[@hackmeister9449]

I appreciate your time and effort to create such a well made video that explained your experience. I am sorry to hear about your negative experience with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, I would recommend that you do not let that one Church become your view of Orthodoxy as a whole. I will also say that this is a big reason why the Antiochian Orthodox Western Write is growing very quickly in the Americas. Praying for you brother!

[@ChristianOrthodoxMiracles]

I returned back home to Orthodoxy from going to the born agains (false Christians) and thank God back to Orthodoxy 🙏💒✝️ Here are the major differences between Orthodox and catholics and ofcourse protestants kzbin.info/www/bejne/nouxpZR8r66kgMU

[@SuleimanTheMagnificent71618]

@@ChristianOrthodoxMiracles Both Eastern and Oriental orthodoxy is hersey!

[@eliasm5784]

@@SuleimanTheMagnificent71618 wrong

[@SuleimanTheMagnificent71618]

@@eliasm5784 yes

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

@@SuleimanTheMagnificent71618 No, you're not making sense

[@terawhitaker]

I found this so helpful Brian! I was actually raised Catholic and then did the Catholic slide to Lutheran and then Baptist. I was gonna check out Eastern Orthodoxy but I just feel like the Catholic Church is home for me. I plan on getting into a local Parish here in SC since I moved. Again God Bless you and your family!

[@jeffjacobson59]

@sphynxbabe. I’m a recent SC transplant myself. Just joined a great Parish in the Hilton Head area. First time I’m back in the faith after 30 years away and I’m loving it. Jump in head first! Most churches have study groups that are really helpful. I attend a mens group that is fantastic. Best of luck and God Bless.

[@catalintican5530]

Strong orthodoxy în România! Greatings to all orthodox people!

[@heidipaulus3701]

Greetings to you, I am not Russian but I love our church

[@lorraine5800]

Is orthodoxy still strong there?

[@andreiferaru8903]

yes

[@lupusdivinorum4673]

@@lorraine5800 About 80% of the people in Romania are Christian Orthodox.

[@user-ef8ni2gy6q]

@@lorraine5800 Same here in Serbia

[@michaeljkowar]

God bless the Orthodox Church.

[@AS-nt6eo]

The Orthodox Excommunicated the Catholics because the added the Filoque, not because of Papal Supremacy. Filoque broke camels back. They changed not us. Sorry but get your facts right. As you said the Catholics went to convert all. The Orthodox went to serve their own. So when you went to the Ukrainian church, you should have "When in Rome" tried their customs, and maybe would have learned something. The creed says, I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

[@thecrazyenglishman1066]

Hi Brian. Bit like a message in a bottle; Four years on and I am watching these videos of yours for the first time. I am a cradle Catholic in the autumn of my life and am struggling with sin habitually. I have often with much intensity looked towards Eastern Orthodoxy as the magic bullet to solve or at least distract me from this struggle. I can find so much wrong in my local parishes and blame this for my lack of transformation in Christ. I have concluded that despite the many problems in the Catholic Church, it is still and will remain the hospital, where sick sinful creatures like me can find healing and Mercy leading to transformation (deification) . There is so much treasure here in the Catholic Church, that even if I was to live for a million years, I still would not be able to apprehend a fraction of it. I believe that the time is fast approaching when the Church will be driven underground; then there will be no altar, no lovely adorned church buildings, very few priests. The Apostles never had any of this, so; I have a massive piece of wood stuck in my eye and I need to spend the rest of the time, God has given me, to try with His help to remove it. I would hazard a guess that there are a few here in the comments section that also are in need of the Master Carpenter to deal with some wood splinters (Catholic and Orthodox). Like your videos, Brian; I find them a catalyst for self reflection. John

[@RGTomoenage11]

Jesus's church is universal.

[@Youchubeswindon]

In complete agreement. I am not religious, in the slightest, however Brian's arguments confuses me. Why do you need to 'join' a church? Why do you need to seek the church that Jesus started, when even the bible says he didn't, it was his apostles. From my understanding Jesus didn't even really believe he was creating a religion, let alone where one should be located. Why isn't any church that teaches Jesus, and the bible good enough, I understand that there are some types of 'culty' churches and denominations, and some practices you may not want to follow, but if you have a need to attend a church, they are all churches, as long as you can understand the language. Imagine the travesty of finding 'your' church, and having to learn a new language to participate. Oh hang on, you need to learn a language (all sorts of bespoke terminology) and follow new customs even if it is taught in your native tongue. The reason the Abrahamic religions triumphed over pagan religions, is that they where not tied to place. I'm pretty sure the Jews started this revelation during the Babylonian exile, but at the moment I can't seem to confirm it, and geographical ties should not be how you define what you follow. Early Christians in Rome, prior to Constantine's conversion prayed in their homes. So whilst he may, or may not make a good argument, it starts on shaky foundations, even when you believe in the religious aspects of his choices.

[@RGTomoenage11]

@@Youchubeswindon Because Jesus stablished a church and he mentioned it on Mathew 16:18... that church is his body and evangelized the world throughout the centuries. One Holy Catholic and apostolic church. That same church put the Bible together. all others were stablished by men much later....

[@RGTomoenage11]

@@Youchubeswindon Early Christians congregated at homes and caves to celebrate the sacrament of the Eucharist (because they were persecuted). They broke the bread daily....

[@hollistantang9469]

I am also a Roman Catholic believer. I have met many people from Eastern Orthodox faith. Some are pretty great people and amazing friends (they are mostly of Greek, Serb, and Russian descent, you know how friendly they really are) and some (sadly from the same countrymen as myself) were overly zealous and sort of disliked me in an instant when they heard that I was (and still am) with Roman Catholic Church. The thing is.... Doesn't matter what sort of faith one embraces, it is the person that matters.. I know I may not going to convert myself to Eastern Orthodoxy, but I still feel that every single Orthodox Christianity believers are my brothers and sisters too. So, I'll say Hi to my brothers and sisters from Roman Catholic and the Orthodox churches.. And shall this day be a blessing for all of us.

[@psu2dcu]

I would have to say that spending more time studying the crusades would enlighten your understanding of the decline of the Eastern Church in the Middle East. In addition, eastern Christendom served as a barrier to the onslaught of Islam for well over 1,000 years. Eastern Christians have suffered through the centuries as second class citizens under Islamic law. Even today the Ecumenical Patriarch is prohibited from maintaining a seminary in Istanbul (Constantinople).

[@brotheraugustine]

"I'm the wrong ethnicity" is a really low-tier understanding of what Orthodoxy is, and a very goofy reason not to join the Church the Apostles planted. I'm 100% Ashkenazi - how many Patriarchs, Bishops, and Priests of the Orthodox Church do you think are Jewish? How many "Jewish Orthodox Churches" do you think there are? Zero. But I joined anyway, because it's the Church that Jesus built, and the Truth of Who Christ Is and what His Body Is should always take higher priority for us than ethnic division.

[@MF-qe2wu]

I’m a white guy that has been going to Antiochian Orthodox Church for a month, there are people of Middle Eastern and Greek descent, but also white guys that converted. So I can’t say that I agree with you, the people at the church are very nice and welcoming. I’m not saying I’m gonna convert but I am at least going to read up more on the church to make an informed decision. I love the Divine Liturgy, such a beautiful service, and have attended a Paraklesis service once, I know some of the doctrine but not enough yet. That will change over the next month or two.

[@elliotlazarus9257]

Any updates on your faith journey? Just curious to know

[@matfejpatrusin4550]

You are not orthodox because your heart did not call you to become one. Language barriers would not have meant a thing if you were convinced that that is the path for you.

[@michelledalenaa]

@Collins Anosike My godfather was black- and he wasn't from another country. He only spoke English. :)

[@xtra.squish]

Collins Anosike I’m mixed and see black people a lot in church. It’s for everyone! Please continue to learn and grow❤️☦️.

[@xtra.squish]

Collins Anosike I’m apart of a Greek Orthodox parish and we do the liturgy in English and Greek. Which is beneficial because there are so many terms in Greek that can’t be explained correctly in English ❤️ what’s the majority of the NT written in? Greek! The KJV misses a lot of context because of mistranslation.

[@xtra.squish]

I should make a video on my journey to orthodoxy. I was agnostic and against organized religion. After my encounter with the Holy Spirit; I was told by someone from Greece, who went to Greek Orthodox schools that I sounded like his mother who was Greek Orthodox. Also telling me how terrible it is etc. a month later we stopped talking and I met someone whom I believe to be my future husband who is Mexican/Caucasian and a Greek Orthodox! I prayed to find where God dwelled and where I could find Him and not a place where people make God into what THEY want him to be. I was called to orthodoxy! The devil tried to give me this guy who was everything I wanted of this world. Someone who wanted to travel, backpack and who had money and loved photography like me. But he didn’t have Christ and didn’t want him so it would never work. But yeah satan used him to deter me from truth. But living in Jesus gave me the discernment I needed to find His body, the unbroken church of Christ. The predenominational church!❤️☦️ I pray everyone finds truth❤️

[@samothracesamothrace4265]

Collins Anosike look up Orthodox Church in Africa, not only do we have Africans and African Americans in our churches, they are in many way the lifeblood. In my church we have several African Americans, Ethiopians, and Kenyans.

[@alycertain]

Thanks for making these videos. You put my thoughts into words and that makes them so much less confusing. I went to an Orthodox mass once. Maybe it wasn't as weird, because I went to a somehow touristic Church, in Yekaterinburg. Still, Russians weren't yet very used to foreigners, but it was more about me adapting to their rite and not them trying to accommodate for me. Because of my several trips, I have met other Eastern Orthodox people, and I respect them and feel close to some of them, but there's always the national barrier that I don't think will ever disappear, so even if I was convinced by their version of the religion, it's not really up to me to become one of them. You're right, the Catholic Church has really made a big effort to actually become a universal Church. Seriously, thank you for doing these videos. For me, it's not even like you're convincing me of anything, but you're helping me straighten up my own thoughts, ideas and beliefs, in your simple way of explaining things.

[@Kinotaurus]

Let me ask you a question, if you go to a Catholic church in italy, will you expect the service to be in English, in Church Latin, or in whatever is your native language? Or in Italian? And how is that different from your experience in Yekatetinburg - and why then the Italian church with services in italian is more "universal" than the russian church with services in russian?

[@heidipaulus3701]

I became an Eastern Orthodox Christian b 4 Pascha this year.

[@elisabethdakak878]

And what does it mean that you became an E. Orthodox Christian?

[@TheRealRealOK]

elisabeth dakak It means she was baptized and chrismated like every other Eastern Orthodox.

[@HairyMunci]

Or maybe only chrismated. As long as you have been baptised previously in the name of the Holy Trinity then that’s fine (as far as I was told). If you haven’t been baptised in the name of the Trinity before then it’s the full works (like I had).

[@HairyMunci]

Είδωμεν το Φως το Αληθινών !

[@belle.etrangere]

Me too! God bless you

[@hexahexametermeter]

And since when is "safety and prosperity" a measure of truth? Is that the message you get from the Gospels? Or from the entire Scripture for that matter? This is perhaps the worst part of your presentation when you say that somehow the hardships in the East are God's providential judgement for rejecting the Pope. Read your Jeremiah and understand that many an idolater lived in prosperity while being in utter error. (Jer 44:17) You should have stuck to your original desire to follow truth instead of what appears attractive. Instead your arguments are just based on what you perceive as an attractive history.

[@benjaminholmes2318]

Precisely. He is shrouding emotionalism with a visage of intellectual, theological reasoning.

[@felixdelgado1893]

Another point to consider is the lives of the saints. They weren't prosperous. Many were martyred. Does that mean that Christianity is false? I find the comments that he shared regarding this whole matter to be insulting and ignorant.

[@ericholmberg2963]

I thought Brian did a great job threading the needle on this very difficult subject. You are right, in this life you will have tribulation and God has promised us nothing other than eventual triumph through the cross. But the cross we must bear nonetheless. With that said, there is a general trajectory that works its way through history eventually. Truth works in time and space and the gospel of the kingdom is very much like leaven in a loaf that gradually, over time, and at times it's one step forward and two steps back, but inexorably it will leaven the entire loaf. But here we come to an interesting point that Brian may want to consider. The metrics by which we measure such things is somewhat ambiguous and debatable but I think most of us will agree in general that yhe opportunity to choose your own career path and flourish in it, to enjoy civic freedoms and avoid tyranny, be educated. Live in a culture teaming with beauty, enjoy good health and long life, enjoy freedom of conscience etc etc all reflect the type of human flourishing that is the fruit of Christian goodness truth and beauty. And if you look at the broad scope of the history of nations and cultures I think it is fair to say that it's where all three of the branches of Christianity exist together in peace and enjoying a kind of divine tension, iron sharpening iron. I can't think of a single Nation that is primarily one of the three alone that I would care to be a citizen of when compared to living in a nation where all three co-exist. Does this absolutely prove that it may be God's will for all three to exist and find out how to work together? No. But it sure suggests it.

[@laurameszaros9547]

@Hexameter. 100% agreed. Well said. The Catholic church has been historically more successful. Were Orthodox to be in the majority today, this is where he would have gone.

[@timothyfreeman97]

@@laurameszaros9547 the Eastern Orthodox Churches have far more success than Rome.

[@c.s.froggis9982]

I also read Jesus's prayer for unity right before becoming catholic, and I felt Jesus speaking to me through it in reassurance of my decision. His heart really is in His one, holy, and apostolic church.

[@reformedcatholic457]

"What you found attractive about Protestantism" with due respect it doesn't matter what is attractive to you, the question is what is theologically true. And I agree with the Orthodox church that I reject the authority of the papacy.

[@joecastillo8798]

JOHN 17:21 "that they may all be ONE. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me". EPHESIANS 4:3-6 "ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL". This UNITY or point of convergence have been the constant presence of The HOLY SPIRIT promised by Christ, guiding the Church BUILT on PETER to all truth and continuing with his successors, the Vicars of Christ, throughout the centuries faithfully guiding our Catholic family to unity and truth, while aided by the prayers of our saints and many faithful theologians, even after death. It all begins with Matthew 16:18-19 18 And I tell YOU, YOU are PETER, and on THIS ROCK I will BUILD MY CHURCH, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. . 19 I will GIVE YOU the KEYS of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you BIND on earth shall be BOUND in HEAVEN, and whatever you LOOSE on earth shall be LOOSED in HEAVEN.” The name “PETER” comes from the Greek word for “ROCK.” JESUS makes him the FOUNDATION on which the CHURCH is to be BUILT. The word “CHURCH ” means “assembly” or “society” of believers. The Hebrew equivalent is used in the Old Testament to indicate the chosen people. In applying it to the church, Jesus shows it to be the Messianic community foretold by the prophets. AND PETER has the KEY to the gates of the city of God. This POWER is exercised through the church. “BINDING ” and “LOOSING ” are rabbinic terms referring to excommunication, then later to forbidding or allowing something. Not only can PETER admit to the kingdom; he also has power to make authoritative decisions in matters of FAITH and MORALS. Today, there's no greater comfort to read, assimilate and be inspired by teachings from St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Iraenaeus of Lyon, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, Pope St. Damasus 1st., Pope St. Leo the Great, St. Francis of Asisi, St. Padre Pio, Pope St. John the XXIII, Pope St. John Paul the II, our present Pope Francis the First, etc. To name a few of the venerable guides in our catholic family. UNITY means NO SCHISM.

[@NeuSatz72]

@@joecastillo8798 If Peter is the Rock, why is the roman pope the "rock" ? Rome was the center of pagan Roman Empire. Constantinopel became the New Christian Rome, the center and seat of a new Roman Empire, this time a Christian one. Not only the Emperor but allso the Ecumenical Patriarch seated in Constantinpel the New Rome. So once again why do you think your Rome is the center and your pope the Rock? Because Peter died in Rome ? Well the popes (patriarch in greek) after him moved to the new capitol Constantinopel the New Rome. So the bishop of Rome is just a bishop who elevated himself to the rang of Patriarch of the Universal Church and lateron even to being "Christ on earth". The real pope is still seated in Constantinopel.

[@leonmajcen2577]

@@NeuSatz72 Amen. Papacy didn't exist until 5th century. (Even though I attend evangelical churches, I love you Orthodox and agree with you theologically a lot. I must admit you are theologically more sound than most protestant pastors and we evangelicals can learn a lot from you.)

[@NeuSatz72]

@@joecastillo8798 To be "ONE" we must believe the same. Since Rome changed the Creed we do not believe the same and are not "in communio". We are no longer "One in mind and spirit". We are no longer one body, one church. So, 2 churches are not possible. One of them must be fauls. It is up to you to find out which church stayed faithful and which changed after a 1000 years of Christianity the Creed and till now introduced so many changes.

[@joecastillo8798]

@@NeuSatz72 My friend, I am part of the ONE true Church, The Catholic Church. This is why? Matthew 16:18-19 18. And I tell YOU, YOU are PETER, and on THIS ROCK I will BUILD MY CHURCH, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19. I will GIVE YOU the KEYS of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you BIND on earth shall be BOUND in HEAVEN, and whatever you LOOSE on earth shall be LOOSED in HEAVEN.” There's only one Peter, the Rock over whom The Church is built and he died in Rome. All his successors inherited the Chair and the promise of our Lord to be with him until the end of times. In ancient times, keys were the hallmark of authority. To be given the key to the city, an honor that exists even today, meant to be given free access to and authority over the city. The city to which Peter was given the keys was the heavenly city itself. This symbolism for authority is used elsewhere in the Bible (Is. 22:22, Rev. 1:18). After the resurrection, Jesus appeared to his disciples and asked Peter three times, "Do you love me?" (John 21:15-17). In repentance for his threefold denial, Peter gave a threefold affirmation of love. Then Christ, the Good Shepherd (John 10:11, 14), gave Peter the authority he earlier had promised: "Feed my sheep" (John 21:17). This specifically included the other apostles, since Jesus asked Peter, "Do you love me more than these?" (John 21:15), the word "these" referring to the other apostles who were present (John 21:2). Thus was completed the prediction made just before Jesus and his followers went for the last time to the Mount of Olives. Immediately before his denials were predicted, Peter was told: Luke 22:31-32 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I HAVE PRAYED FOR YOU that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again (after the denials), strengthen your brethren". It was ONLY PETER who Christ prayed for so he would have faith that would not fail and that would be a guide for the others; and his prayer, being perfectly efficacious, was certain to be fulfilled. RECORDED HISTORY From Eusebius (Church History IV.22), we learn that in the middle of the second century Hegesippus, the Hebrew Christian, visited Rome and that he drew up a LIST OF BISHOPS as far as Anicetus, the then POPE. Eusebius does not quote his catalogue, but Lightfoot sees ground for holding that we possess it in a passage of Epiphanius (Haer. 27:6), in which the bishops as far as Anicetus are enumerated. This list of Hegesippus, drawn up less than a century after the martyrdom of St. Peter, was he believes, the foundation alike of the Eusebian and Hippolytan catalogues (Clement of Rome I, 325 so.). His view has been accepted by many scholars. Even those who, like Harnack (Chronologie, I, 184 sq.), do not admit that this list is really that of Hegesippus, recognize it as a catalogue of Roman origin and of very early date, furnishing testimony independent alike of the Eusebian and Liberian lists. LETTER XVI OF ST. JEROME TO POPE DAMASUS. (Written from the desert in the year 377 or 378 aD.) This letter was another appeal to Pope Damasus to solve his doubts. Here, Jerome once more refers to his baptism at Rome, and declares that his one answer to the factions at Antioch is: “HE WHO CLINGS TO THE CHAIR OF PETER IS ACCEPTED BY ME.” LINK TO THE COMPLETE LETTER St. Jerome Letter XVI. To Pope Damasus. www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.v.XVI.html OTHER RELATED LINKS www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272a.htm www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm REFERENCES 1) Joseph Barber Lightfoot (13 April 1828 - 21 December 1889), known as J. B. Lightfoot, was an English theologian and Bishop of Durham. 2) Adolf von Harnack (1851-1930) was a German theologian and prominent church historian. May God bless your discernment.

[@deborahvanbronkhorst8420]

I agree that the Orthodox Church I attend used to be mostly middle eastern people, but that is no longer the case. People from all different backgrounds, from all around the world attend our church today in America. It’s beautiful!

[@kimfleury]

Your conclusion really got me thinking (and once again, I greatly appreciate your clear, solid reasoning). It's not the first time that I've noticed what you pointed out in that last bit, you just made me think about it in a way that is helpful. I've had internal difficulties arise when I begin to consider it, so I've shut down the thoughts so as to avoid the near occasion of sin. Really. It's so tempting to get cocky about it. But that's like the right hand thinking it's superior to the left. These are Apostolic Churches, with the Real Presence. The right regard is sorrow -- not despair, mind you, but recognition that things aren't the way Jesus prayed for them to be. I greatly appreciate the way you led a prayer without formalities, by pointing to the prayer Jesus prayed. The very words you used are a prayer, pointing to what we should be praying for and why. Father in heaven, grant that Your Church may unite as one, that the whole world might know that You alone are God. I ask this in the Name of Jesus Christ, Your Son. Amen.

[@mikeparsegian3571]

I'm Armenian Orthodox I love my Orthodox brothers I enjoy visiting other Orthodox churches its like a big family.

[@sakogekchyan7366]

jeisa Jeis Not really. The book of revelation mentions the continued existence of the nations. It says that Jesus will rule over all nations and they will all be brought under his feet. But it doesn’t say they will cease to exist. They will just be under one divine Lordship.

[@ChristianOrthodoxMiracles]

I returned back home to Orthodoxy from going to the born agains (false Christians) and thank God back to Orthodoxy 🙏💒✝️ Here are the major differences between Orthodox and catholics and ofcourse protestants kzbin.info/www/bejne/nouxpZR8r66kgMU

[@Yasen.Dobrev]

@Mike Parsegian Hello. No offence intended but the Armenian Christology and the non-Chalcedonian Christology as a whole, is not Orthodox. It rejects the monophysitism of Eutyches and that of Dioscorus of Alexandria but is based on the Monophysitism of Severus of Antioch (465-538) who rejected the Tome of St.Leo that was accepted at the 4th Ecumenical Council, at Chalcedon (451). St.Leo says in his Tome the following which is rejected by Severus:,,…For as “God” is not changed by the compassion [exhibited], so “Man” is not consumed by the dignity [bestowed]. For each “form” does the acts which belong to it, in communion with the other; the Word, that is, performing what belongs to the Word, and the flesh carrying out what belongs to the flesh; the one of these shines out in miracles, the other succumbs to injuries.“ Severus’ beliefs are summarized, for example, in the article of the Coptic author Mina Soliman ''St.Severus of Antiovh and the Julianist controversy":,,Severus believed that the humanity of Christ is filled with divine energy, but that does not ignore the human energy. … Julian would criticize Severus that he becomes no different from Pope Leo of Rome and the Chalcedonians, but Severus would retort that the subject of the willing and acting is the Logos, which he would contest Pope Leo did not confess.“ If, when referring to the time after the Incarnation, by ,,one subject“ we understand one Person/Hypostasis in Christ, it is right and it is true that the Hypostasis/Person of the Word which was one before the Incarnation, remained one after the Incarnation with the difference that the simple Hypostasis before the Incarnation became complex after the Incarnation in the sense that now two nature subsisted in it - divine and human. Will - divine or human, is a natural property and of course, its mode is always hypostatic because the Person/Hypostasis of Christ is one. But if we say that the subject of the human willing and acting after the Incarnation, is the Logos, the Logos Itself, the Word Itself, the Word alone, then comes an issue. This is because the expressions the Logos, the Logos Itself, the Word itself, the Word alone refer to the Person/Hypostasis of the Logos and to the divinity, to the divine nature and energy since the eternal Logos’ own nature and energy, i.e. the eternal nature and energy of the Logos, are only the divine nature and energy unlike the created human nature and energy which became His own nature and energy in addition to the eternal divine nature and energy after the Incarnation when the Logos assumed the created human nature and energy. That way, when we say that the Logos is the subject of the human willing and actions, since the human willing and the actions do not belong to the Hypostasis but belong to the human nature and proceed from the human energy, then it follows that the human willing and actions belong to His divine nature and so proceed from His divine energy. That would mean that his human nature does not have its own energy. Therefore, it would follow that after the Incarnation the divine nature and energy of Christ have changed as they would now have two wills and kinds of actions - divine and human, i.e. it would follow that God has changed which is impossible (James 1:17). Also, if the divine nature and energy have changed after the Incarnation, that would mean either that the divine nature and energy of Christ only have changed which would cause a split in the Trinity, or that since the divine nature and energy are common for the Three Persons, the divine nature and energy of all Three Persons have changed which would mean that the Three Persons have Incarnated. A split of the Trinity is impossible because God is One Being in Three Persons and it is not that the Three Persons have incarnated because only the Word that became flesh (John 1:14). So, the human willing and actions of Christ do not belong to the divine nature and proceed from the divine energy but instead belong to the human nature and proceed from the energy of the human nature, i.e. the created human nature of Christ has its own energy. So, the only way for the Divine Word, the Logos that refers only to the Hypostasis and the eternal divine nature and energy, to be the subject of the human willing and actions, is if at the Incarantion there occurred a confusion of the divine nature and energy, and the human nature and energy and that would lead to Monenergism because there would be a one new, mixed energy and one new, mixed energy, i.e. Monophysitism. (The mixture of the natures and energies means also a mixture of the divine and human wills which would lead to a one, new mixed will, i.e. Monothelitism.) Therefore, although it is true that the subject of the human willing and actions is the Person/Hypostasis of the Word because the Hypostasis before and after the Incarnation is one and so the mode of the wills is hypostatic as it was already said, it is wrong to say that it is the Logos which is the subject of the human willing and actions because the expression ,,the Logos“ refers to the divine nature and energy, except to the Hypostasis of the Logos, i.e. it does not refer to the assumed human nature and energy and that would suggest that there occured a change in God’s nature after the Incarnation of the Word and also that His human nature does not have its own energy. As it was shown, both suggestions are not true. As the eternal Logos’ own nature and energy, i.e. the eternal nature and energy of the Logos, are only the divine nature and energy, to say that after the Incarnation it is the Logos, i.e. the Logos Itself, that is the subject of both the divine and human willing and actions, means to confuse Hypostasis and nature - in this case the divine nature. It would be precise if we say that it is the Incarnate Logos or incarnate Word which is the subject of the divine and human willing and actions because those expressions - Incarnate Logos, incarnate Word, refer to both nature - divine and human as the word ,,incarnate“ refers specifically to the created human nature of Christ. As it was said, St.Leo says in his Tome the following which is rejected by Severus:,,For as “God” is not changed by the compassion [exhibited], so “Man” is not consumed by the dignity [bestowed]. For each “form” does the acts which belong to it, in communion with the other; the Word, that is, performing what belongs to the Word, and the flesh carrying out what belongs to the flesh; the one of these shines out in miracles, the other succumbs to injuries.“ Since the eternal Word’s own nature and energy, i.e. the eternal nature and energy of the Logos, are only the divine nature and energy, wherefore it is wrong to say that after the Incarnation it is the Word, i.e. the Word Itself, that is the subject of the human willing and actions because it would mean that since the human willing and actions belong to the nature, belong to the divine nature, St.Leo is right when he says that the Word, i.e. the Word Itself perfoms what belongs to the Word, i.e. only the divine actions. When he says that the flesh performs the human actions, he does not mean in a Nestorian sense but only in the sense that the human actions proceed from the human energy which is not the Word, i.e. the Word Itself Whose energy is only the divine energy from which there proceed only the divine actions.

[@Yasen.Dobrev]

@Mike Parsegian It must be added that St.Cyril explains his the famous phrase ,,Mia Physis Tou Theou Logou Sesarkomene“ in his second letter to Succensus:,,For if we had said that there was one nature of the Word and had kept silent and not added that it was ‘incarnate’, as if we were excluding the economy, they might perhaps have had a point when they pretended to ask where was the perfection in the humanity or how did our human essence endure. But since both the perfection in the humanity and the assertion of our human essence is implied by the word ‘incarnate’ then let them stop leaning on this broken staff (Is.36.6). For if anyone took away from the Son his perfect humanity he could rightly be accused of throwing the economy overboard, and of denying the incarnation.“ As he explains, the phrase refers to Christ’s human nature, so it is not used in a non-Chalcedonian sense. In accordance with the explaination of St.Cyril, the correct translation of the phrse is ,,One Incarnated Nature of the Word“ and not as it is sometimes incorrectly translated:,,one nature of the Word Incarnate“. Another argument against the acceptance that according to his human nature Christ is a fully human person (without the reference to His human nature as a human person implying Nestorianism), which is held by the Severians was that there is not a nature with no hypostasis (subsistence) and since His human nature came to subsist in the pre-existent Hypostasis of the Word after the Incarnation, thus not having its own hypostasis, it cannot be referred to as a human person because that would imply Nestorianism. But St.John of Damascus dedicates one of the chapters in his ,,Exact exposition of the Orthodox faith“ exactly to that question of the Severians and he refutes that wrong view. St.John of Damascus, Exact expositon of the Orthodox faith, Book 3, Chapter IX. In reply to the question whether there is Nature that has no Subsistence:,,For although there is no nature without subsistence, nor essence apart from person (since in truth it is in persons and subsistences that essence and nature are to be contemplated), yet it does not necessarily follow that the natures that are united to one another in subsistence should have each its own proper subsistence. For after they have come together into one subsistence, it is possible that neither should they be without subsistence, nor should each have its own peculiar subsistence, but that both should have one and the same subsistence. For since one and the same subsistence of the Word has become the subsistence of the natures, neither of them is permitted to be without subsistence, nor are they allowed to have subsistences that differ from each other, or to have sometimes the subsistence of this nature and sometimes of that, but always without division or separation they both have the same subsistence--a subsistence which is not broken up into parts or divided, so that one part should belong to this, and one to that, but which belongs wholly to this and wholly to that in its absolute entirety. For the flesh of God the Word did not subsist as an independent subsistence, nor did there arise another subsistence (hypostasis) besides that of God the Word, but as it existed in that it became rather a subsistence which subsisted in another, than one which was an independent subsistence (hypostasis). Wherefore, neither does it lack subsistence (hyspoastsis) altogether, nor yet is there thus introduced into the Trinity another subsistence (hypostasis).“ So the human nature of Christ subsists in the Hypostasis of the Word and that means neither that the human nature is without a hypostasis. It took the Hypostasis of the Word as its own hypostasis. Therefore the argument that the human nature of Christ cannot be referred to as a human person because it does not have its own hypostasis, is refuted. Therefore, since the human nature of Christ has its own energy and is not without a hypostasis, it can be referred to as a fully human person without that being Nestorianism.

[@StJoseph777]

I am a former atheist who is also a convert. When I decided to go back to Christianity, I decided to focus on Church history and see who seemed to really have the most reasonable claim to be the original Church unchanged. I concluded there were four branches: Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Catholic. Studying all the branches of orthodoxy, in other words, not JUST the Eastern Orthodox. I concluded Rome made the most sense overall, especially now that Rome is back in full or partial communion with the other three main branches. But I have deep respect for all the other branches, and am so happy that mutual excommunications have been lifted and ancient issues like the Nestorian controversy have been resolved.

[@Mariasfromsilenthill]

Dean Esmay not so reasonable, more biased unfortunately.

[@jennifermcdaniel9531]

Only the Catholic Church has all four in one. Become catholic now!

[@Mariasfromsilenthill]

Jennifer McDaniel I will not, I am sorry to say, I will stay with what I think is the true church.

[@minasoliman]

Dean Esmay I, as an Oriental Orthodox have to disagree with the hope you presented. If you study doctrines like theosis, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Catholics agree that this is an essential foundation of our salvation. This has yet to be clear in the Assyrian Church. In fact, this was the main reason why Oriental Orthodox condemned Chalcedon. It wasn’t merely semantics. If you can’t guarantee there is one “unit of existence” out of the two nature of Christ, then there’s no real unity within Christ, which is the foundation of our unity to God in Christ, which in turn is the foundation of our theosis. I think there needs to be a serious re-examination of the historical doctrinal divergences. There are so many that has not been translated by Eastern writings, as usually history is written by the victor (victor being the Latin and Protestant west). I do however concede one thing. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox are practically in all intents and purposes the same faith despite lack of communication, and both have the same objections against both Rome and Protestantism. You can’t really ignore that. I would recommend anyone who thinks the East has lost its ways and does not have the superficiality of victorious grandeur the West seems to have should read Laurent Cleenewerck’s “His Broken Body”. If you dare, this will shake the faith of Roman Catholicism at its core with really deep questions that no Roman Catholic should ignore if they want to be deep rooted in their Catholicism and their belief in the alleged infallible security of the Pope of Rome

[@henrybn14ar]

Have you compared the liturgy and practices?

[@irreadings]

I'm an inquirer into orthodoxy. In the parish I visit weekly, this has never been a problem. It's a Greek parish, and there's a number of Greek people there, as well as people of Greek descent, but they're around half of the regulars there. I have never felt isolated or looked weird at for not being Greek. In fact, the first person to introduce me there was a Bulgarian woman, and I am being instructed by a local man (not of Greek origin or descent). However, ethocentrism *is* a problem in the orthodox church. I haven't had a problem with it, but this is true enough for the patriarchs themselves to recognize it and emphasize that ethocentrism is a heresy (or a sin, I'm not sure which of the two, and how big of a difference there is between them). They *do* want more people in the church, and they don't want to remain so localized. However, their way of evangelizing is through lifestyle and example. They don't believe in Jesuit practices. This has its pros and cons.

[@theunknownone2189]

I've been Orthodox for 6 months and I think that evangelism is the biggest problem. Also the fact that I have to constantly check and see if I'm in communion with a church before I attend is a problem.

[@pacnik77]

This is what i saw and felt "dominationalism" i felt the same vibe with a sense that i felt like an outsider and alienated me was almost i had to become mideastern first becore rea;lly accepted kind of like in the beginng the Judeisers insisted you had to be cirumcised become a Jew before you were baptised and entered in full communion wuith the church'. I was face to face with that... believe me im nod spring chicken and Catholic.Me going it was not done lightly. i justed didnt wake up Sunday and decide to go. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYfaomiEetOiqg 8ODknot

[@zsedcftglkjh]

I've never had a positive experience with the Orthodox. Very standoff and enclosed people. Never understood it.

[@BoondockBrony]

Same here, I was an inquirer as well a while back. The individual church really does make or break the experience with Orthodoxy. An out of state friend of mine had a ROCOR church that was very open to him, despite him being very much an Irishman. However my churches have more or less heavily leaned into their ethnicities that I would feel left out of the loop, not just due to closed communion mind you. I have other issues with Orthodoxy but this post *really* spoke to me since I really don't want to come off as ignorant when it comes to something as serious as converting to a faith and I usually do a lot of research before I actually step foot into a church.

[@nigelmansfield3011]

I am catholic in the Roman tradition and am deeply proud of it. I love the eastern catholic traditions as well. Importantly, I love Orthodoxy too. When life is tough, I find it important to look east and recognise what has always and everywhere been believed.

[@alexwarstler9000]

The reason why the popes before Francis recited the Creed without the Filioque in the presence of the EO Bishops is because Rome had no right to change the Creed without the permission of the other Churches.

[@joecastillo8798]

Alex Warstler Alex, You're mistaken. They omitted the "filioque" In deference to their host and not because of change in our dogma, which continues affirming at all Masses that the Holy Spirit proceeds from The Father and The Son. And The Pope, has the Petrine authority to declare infallible Dogmas, with or without a Council of Bishops, in communion with Rome. May God bless your discernment.

[@marklouiecastor5613]

Unfortunately No, the Popes before Pope Francis always recited the Creed with the Filioque, the only thing why Pope John Paul II has an agreement with the Patriarch that if the Creed would be prayed before them and in Greek the Filioque will not be mentioned. In fact that was also the exemptions approved by the Previous Pope for the Eastern Rites during the Union of Brest.

[@jessicalockerby7021]

Local to me, the Eastern Orthodox Churches work together and hold service as one church in times of renovation, natural disaster, etc. from what I’ve gathered, the separation of ethnic origins in Eastern Orthodoxy is to keep a sense of ethnic culture and tradition as well as Eastern Orthodoxy tradition. I think your experience of feeling awkward in that Ukrainian church is unique and uncommon.

[@lelandunruh7896]

I've definitely felt a bit "other" in a Ukrainian Orthodox church, while I've felt very welcome in a Ukrainian Greek Catholic church. That said, I don't have nearly a large enough sample size to draw real conclusions.

[@Kinotaurus]

Any church that dubs itself "Ukrainian" in the west is schismatics and/or heretics. This is because the only legitimate Ukrainian Orthodox Church is under the omophore of the Moscow Patriarch, and outside of the Ukraine its faithful worship in the churches of ROC MP. My local church in London certainly has lots of Ukrainians in it (also Georgians, Romanians, Bulgarians and "native English").

[@kennethhagin-sermons]

“The Orthodox were divisive” is a terrible argument, granted that Rome was upending the tradition and demanding the “rules” be changed. You’d see straight through this in any other situation. Example... Child: if you don’t let me do this I’m running away Parents: were not gonna let you do that. Child: my parents are kicking me out 😭

[@Bella11264]

✔

[@timothyfreeman97]

Yeah, YOU GUYS were the children.

[@LadyMaria]

@@timothyfreeman97 Yup Rome was.

[@Onneukbaar]

I’m a Dutch orthodox with no Easter background

[@mattynewell5906]

Thank you for your boldness at the end, very interesting and beautifully put arguments

[@intersabellos2482]

This is such a fascinating topic to me. I was so very drawn to the Orthodox tradition and it really was a huge part of my faith journey that ultimately led me to the Catholic Church. I had become a strong Catholic so obviously I took my faith seriously and the worst feeling is seeing heresy, political garbage, cliques, and abuse in the one environment I thought I could truly trust. I became convinced that because of Orthodox Christianity’s ancient practices and lack of central authority, it was truly the church for me. But my friends, long story short, months of praying and researching just led me to better understand Catholic doctrine and I realized I actually think the Catholics are right. At the end of the day, I am an even more devout Catholic than when I started and I got to learn about the other lung of traditional Christianity so it was a positive experience. I pray Catholics and Orthodox Christians can someday unite to fight evil and live as Jesus wanted. God bless all of you!

[@permanenceaesthetic6545]

I am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. I have recently stumbled upon some fairly compelling Catholic apologetics, and thusly am struggling in certain areas. Would you mind explaining to me what caused you to make up your mind? Thank you, and may God bless you.

[@intersabellos2482]

@@permanenceaesthetic6545 Praise be to Jesus Christ! I would be happy to briefly explain the bottom-line of my decision to be Catholic (RC) rather than to be Eastern Orthodox (EO). As an EO inquirer my expectation was that the EO were one unified church when to my shock there are actually three different divisions of Orthodoxy (Chalcedonian Orthodox; Oriental Non-Chalcedonian Orthodox; Assyrian Orthodox Church of the East). Each of these communions considers one another to be heretics/schismatics, despite many of their concerns being reconcilable provided there were a universal magisterium that could be appealed to in order to solve disputes. Many of the disputes are caused by ethno-linguistic misunderstandings and are unfortunately not so tied in with a concern for zealous piety. Moreover, the Chalcedonian Orthodox are de jure out of communion with each other and I found that Greeks would rebaptise me, but that some Russians would never venture to commit such sacrilege as to rebaptise me (that is a colossal problem. How do I know if I have been baptised in this situation?) The post-schism theology of the EO is not consistent with pre-schism Eastern theology and there are reasons for this, but it goes to show that the EO are not invincible from innovation and heresy. There are books in length to be written on that problem alone. Ultimately, the Orthodox only universally hold to whichever Ecumenical Councils their particular communion recognises to be truly ecumenical, all other doctrinal questions which apparently “condemn Latin heresy” are no more than post-schism opinions and polemics and exactly the same as the previous ethno-linguistic problems I’ve mentioned earlier. I was running from the Catholic Church because of its problems, and EO seemed to have all the answers and be so wonderful until I entered into that world. For me, it didn’t take me very long to realise that there are the exact same problems in both camps and that to evaluate which communion to enter based on liturgical abuses per capita or something like that was not healthy and academically dishonest. I would highly recommend that you attend an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy if it is available to you. Find the Church with a Tradition which interests you in EO, all EO Churches have a Catholic parallel with its own history. At any rate, the Traditional Latin Mass is also beautiful and these days that is my normal liturgy. There is very much more that I have to say, but suffice it to say you should consider reaching out to/read/listen to the following people: Charles Coulombe (Tumblar House, Theology on Tap on KZbin) Vitalis Varaioun (On KZbin The Russian Catholic), Timothy Flanders (The Meaning of Catholic, YT and website), Vladimir Soloviev (book: Russia and the Universal Church), Erick Ybarra (Reason and Theology on YT, ErickYbarra.com), Gideon Lazar (He has published some articles online under his own name), Linden Predy (The Badger Dad on YT). Sorry. Long response, but I hope you are at least in the right direction. JMJ

[@permanenceaesthetic6545]

@@intersabellos2482 What an eloquently insightful comment! Thank you immensely for your time and your words. I am in an incredibly tight spot theologically at the moment. I myself have never been baptized into and Christian faith, and fell into atheism in my latter teenage years. I always maintained a sort of pseudo-traditional outlook on life, but until recently never really knew where to glean that traditional aspect from. It was Orthodoxy (as well as the Shroud of Turin) which brought me out of atheism. And it was after studying its theology, history, and miracles that left me absolutely confident in its truth. It seemed no matter how greatly I fought, Orthodoxy kept calling me home. Upon discovering the unbroken Miracle of the Holy Fire, it absolutely shook me to my core. It is simply undeniable. Yet, within the past week, I have read honestly (and what I feel like is thoroughly) the Catholic position. I see where the Orthodox in certain areas absolutely misrepresent topics such as Absolute Divine Simplicity, the Filioque, unleavened bread for the Eucharist, Papal Primacy, etc. yet even with this, my experience with Orthodoxy is far too strong to simply discard it outright. It is for these reasons that I desperately need your prayers and for our Lord to pull me out of this psychosis I seem to have found myself in. I worry that I am one of those too easily “swayed by various doctrines” which our beloved St. Paul warned us about in his epistles. I will definitely look into those resources you mentioned. Thank you again, and may Christ be with you and your family.

[@xXPureMetalXx]

@@permanenceaesthetic6545 I'm curious how this turned out. What is your current position?

[@feliped2443]

@@intersabellos2482 I appreciate this educated/well thought out reply, thank you

[@AZ-vv1rf]

Soooo.. we just gonna pretend here, that 1204 never happened?

[@bachatamusica]

Excellent. I enjoyed this very much. From a brother Portuguese Catholic.

[@mikael4032]

1. Ethnic background has nothing to do with Orthodoxy 2. Orthodoxy is for anyone and everyone who wishes to approach it with free will and love in his heart 3. A mortal can never be a head of the Church, Jesus is the head of Church. 4. Research about why Orthodox Christians do not agree with the Pope on many things, one of them being for an example ,,Pope being non sinful and an absolutist over all Christian dominion. 5. I wish you a blessed day and may God give you wisdom and blessings

[@levisando]

1. If this is true, it's a pity that he had the experience that he did, because someone apparently thinks it is not true. 3. Catholics agree with that. The Pope isn't the head of the Church in it's entirety, he's the head of the Church _on Earth_. He's the Vicar of Christ. 4. That statement that you give as an example is not a Catholic teaching. 5. Ditto.

[@nikob381]

*Rome sacks Constantinople, cripples its defenses, and then refuses to send support when the Ottomans invade shortly after* "Welp, guess it's providence that Constantinople fell and Rome didn't!"

[@BrianHoldsworth]

Constantinople would have fallen long before if the West hadn't sent aid through each successive crusade, sacrificing lives and wealth. The case of the sacking of Constantinople had as much to do with internal politics and dysfunction as it did with mistakes on the part of crusaders. If you're interested in the actual history, give this a watch: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqOWaGmDoL-qgqs

[@Tytheband]

Me and My wife and children all converted to Orthodox Christianity this year. We attend an OCA (Orthodox Church of America) parish, almost entirely filled with American Protestant/Catholic converts. But we also feel perfectly at home visiting and taking communion at Orthodox churches in the Greek, Romanian, Russian and Antioch Traditions. Christ transcends all cultural expressions of the Faith. Orthodoxy is paradoxical. Even with completely decentralized, autonomous regions (not denominations), it has real unity and consistency and Phronema (the mind of Christ) between all of them. Their dedication to preserving the Holy Tradition of the Apostles, monasticism, and rejection of the rampant dogmatic “innovation” that Catholics and Protestants take part in daily have sustained it faithfully for 2000 years straight. Orthodoxy is one. Western Christianity even with Catholicism has thousands of splinter groups. It is the True Church that has stood the test of time.

[@ChaosRevealsOrder]

It doesn't matter where you are from, a father, a bishop, even a simple believer will welcome you open-hearted. The reason orthodox churches hold their sermons in specific languages and not a common one like Latin is so it can be understood by the peoples of that country. That person turning you away was wrong, may God bless him back on the righteous path.

[@johnoneill4209]

As a cradle Catholic all my life it's as if I am a fish surrounded by water of Catholism . It is wonderful to listen to someone who has sought out God and arrived at our beautiful church with alas mostly minimum help from us.God bless you and keep you always close to Him.

[@joeycsk8305]

Catholicism? Oh dear

[@CybermanKing]

@@joeycsk8305 I hate to break it to you, but this is a Catholic channel with over 100k subs. If every Catholic comment upsets you, you're going to have a rough time falling asleep at night.

[@joeycsk8305]

@@CybermanKing dont worry I do really sleep well. Thanks for your concern.

[@MikeyAGoGo101]

It came to prayers for me, I asked God where he wanted me, all I saw was Catholicism all around me from the bible to getting pulled into the Catholic Church and then the church fathers to know the history of Christianity. I find Catholicism to be so beautiful and I feel at home.

[@CybermanKing]

@@MikeyAGoGo101 I don’t distrust your prayers, but could you be more specific? I’m genuinely curious what brought you to Catholicism as a revert myself.

[@antlers163]

Jesus established an ekklesia...an assembly, a gathering, a body of believers. He established a movement, NOT a location.

[@stephenson19861]

True, first center was Jerusalem, then it was not. But the truth is also that Rome and Constantinopole argued who should have the most exalted place. In Rome they wanted to keep it because Peter was there, in Constantinopole they wanted to take it because it became the capital and seat of emperor. We can mix in theology but it was always a question of power. The bishop of Rome always had that "first among equals" status, like - a special place of honor. Later it was shifting always more towards power of jurisdiction as well.

[@berndlauert8179]

He established a body of believers and the minister of that body is Peter who resides in Rome.

[@mx_moi1964]

Ναζωραῖος Did this demonstrate papal infallibility was non-existent? Not at all. Peter’s actions had to do with matters of discipline, not with issues of faith or morals. Furthermore, the problem was Peter’s actions, not his teaching. Paul acknowledged that Peter very well knew the correct teaching (Gal. 2:12-13).

[@marcokite]

but the man he chose as the first Pope died for the Faith in Rome and thus all Christians for the first few hundred years recognised the primacy of the Roman Church

[@antlers163]

Just because Catholic’s make that claim does NOT make it so. The ‘rock’ that Jesus referred to is NOT Peter...it is the bold statement that Peter had just made. There is NOTHING in scripture about a pope, purgatory, indulgences, trans-substantiation, or relics. Thank God for Luther and the reformation. Catholic hierarchy didn’t even want common people to have the Bible for themselves.

[@lar.8168]

I was born in a primarily Orthodox country and I can confirm that Orthodox churches are closely tied to nationalism, which is inherently not Christian

[@satyannair4837]

You're bang on target on that one!!! Unfortunately, the Orthodox commentators on this post are unable to see the elephant in the room.

[@lar.8168]

@@satyannair4837 Yeah, because a lot of churches propagate their exceptionalism, and tell their believers that they alone are the "God's people" and other similar nonsense. They tend to rely a lot on traditional values of that particular country, meanwhile they talk very little about Christianity, so people usually confuse tradition and nationalism with Christianity

[@joek600]

@@lar.8168 Most of the orthodox churches were basically arks of culture preservation while most of the orthodox countries were overun by Turks. Meanwhile the catholics had the time to embark to the colonies and organise forcefull conversions and genocides of natives. Different priorities.

[@_Gaby_950]

11:38 The Battle of Lepanto is my favourite pro Mama Maria's intercession story❤ Your videos are so clean and aesthetic and I can't tell you how much I appreciate seeing that. God bless you and your family. My prayers are with you. Peace to you

[@georgekakaboukis6961]

Im from Nafpaktos Greece (Lepanto)

[@_Gaby_950]

@@georgekakaboukis6961 You're so lucky!

[@intensity33]

3:50 in and I'm like "whoa, we live in the same place!!" Have you ever tried visiting the two OCA churches? Those are supposed to be multi-national, and apparently St.Herman of Alaska on the West End is just that. Of course, I haven't checked it out either, and I agree whole heartily with your thoughts on the ethnic situation on the Eastern side. Which Catholic church do you go to if you don't mind me asking?

[@Ups_downs_life_funny]

They basically didn't know why you were asking to participate while it's always open for everyone and that's why you gave up on orthodoxy because you didn't know whether or not to go in?

[@richardmcleod1930]

Out of entire sympathy, I would highly suggest you watch the videos of Father Josiah Trenham of St. Andrews Orthodox Church in Riverside, California. There are many videos by Father Trenham of St. Andrews of Riverside, California. I visited the church on many occasions, and have only appreciation for the work in promoting the Gospel Christ at St. Andrews in Riverside, California. They have refrained from modernization and all that afflicts the Roman Catholic Church of today. I highly recommend you watch the videos about St. Andrews in Riverside, California. I truly feel you will have a new appreciation of Orthodox Churches.

[@redlander55]

Sometimes I think that both Catholics and Orthodox are cultural developments. There was a geographical distance between the West and the East. And in the West, Rome was the only big Christian center, while in the East, there were several. And these facts gave birth to the westerners love for the Pope and the easterners love for councils and stuff like that. Sometimes I think that if there were another big Christian community and patriarch in West, maybe things might have been different: the Bishop of Rome far less powerful and no schism. But what do I know :))

[@al4381]

Yeah, I have had similar thoughts about this. Prior to the miaphysite schisms of the Eastern church, each patriarchate had its own liturgies as well. The reforms made by St Gregory the Great were only applied to Western Christianity, not Eastern, because there is a distinction between local synods of bishops and ecumenical councils. Even in the council of Trent, the new Tridentine mass was only to replace all forms of the mass that were younger than 200 years old. It was meant to be the universal (catholic) mass, but was on equal footing as the old liturgies. All the bishops of the West saw the authority of the Pope in Rome because that was the only seat of authority in the West, whereas the other patriarchates had been there since the dawn of Christianity, and mentioned at the council of Nicaea. The jurisdictions of the patriarchs of the East also changed a lot of times, the see of Antioch lost some northern bishophorics to Constantinople and some southern to the see of Jerusalem in the 5th and 6th centuries. To the West, their perspective is all through how they become ordained bishops by the pope, then cardinals, then elect the next one, but none of the bishops outside of that jurisdiction have that influence. The bishops of the see of Antioch elect the Antiochian patriarch, the bishops of the see of Alexandria elect the Alexandrian pope and so forth. Also ruling from the pope in Rome is very separated from the other sees. It had only the barbarian threats of the north in mind when defining new tradition, which wasn't always compatible with the East. The same issue sprung up in the 16th century when Sweden broke off from the Roman Catholic Church because it refused to understand the political climate of the former Kalmar Union. The traditions of the West always differed from the other sees, such as the use of leavened or unleavened bread, and the use of Latin as opposed to Greek or Syriac, and with the increasing claims of authority and infallibility of the pope, tensions were bound to grow.

[@raymonddunne7153]

Im not eastern orthodox (yet) but I'm very much interested and studying it. I appreciate your point of view although I think I have heard some the details of the history of the schism portrayed a little differently. But beyond that whats interesting to me personally is how some of the things that repelled me from orthodoxy as younger man, partly the church's resistance to change, are now what are drawing me toward it. In my opinion, we are headed for some very difficult times and the root cause of this is man turning his back on God and serving mammon. So the distinction between what is of this world and what is of God is a very important one to me now as I am now being told, for example, that I either allow the world to push chemicals into my bloodstream against my will or i lose my job. This has been a wake up call for me and has forced me to consider if I want to be involved with any organization actively trying to become more worldly to increase its following. I find the word holy to be related in some way to the word interger-a "whole" number, and the word interger to be related to the word integrity. Integrity is in part resistance to change. Resistance to change is now in my mind a good thing as I watch man more and more assume the role of God, and more and more people obey them like gods.

[@Thegreatone-tx1yl]

Have you converted yet? I’m studying orthodoxy as well and am going to my first church this Sunday.

[@raymonddunne7153]

@@Thegreatone-tx1yl no I live in a very rural area that doesn't have a church. I have been going to a Catholic church and thinking about joining. I tell myself that Christ wouldn't have wanted the schism and probably doesn't recognized two separate churches.

[@lboh5260]

Why not just follow a east catholic rite?

[@raymonddunne7153]

@@lboh5260 thank you. Found an Orthodox church last November and feeling better about things. Curious though, how does one follow an eastern catholic rite?

[@lboh5260]

@Raymond Dunne there are 23 rites to the catholic church just as the early church. The first among many was always considered Rome prior to 1000 ad. Because the bishop of rome of being the successor of Peter. All the patriarchs of the catholic church has equal authority but just as polycarp did and ignatius of antioch they went to the first among many or the vicar of christ was another wording they used to make sure they were following apostolic succession when facing questions. Of faith and morals. Knowing peter was given the keys of the kingdom. So the eastern rites are eastern they follow their bishop and the pope only has authority when ex cathedra. Which if a fancy way of saying what was before. Orthodoxy and catholicism separated more because of power everyone wants their country to be the center of the church... and language east spoke Greek west Latin and racism and nationalism just like today then was an issue and a reason to not get along. It is documented and shown that for ecumenical councils east bishops were called to the councils but they refused and decided to try excommunicating the bishop of Rome to hold their national power. East was very nationalized Rome was more spread out over numerous countries. There was no German catholic church like there was the Russian catholic church aka Russian orthodox church. For the monarchs and patriarchs to hold their power they did the split and fought against them selves for even longer. Many have come back and some parts. They practice almost exactly as orthodox do even don't have the filioque in the creed which isn't necessarily one way or the other. Many also have leavened bread. I'd say with time people have respected the culture and the language differences from times prior.

[@tadijafr]

I'm from Serbia and when i visited orthodox churches in Hreece and Romania i never felt feeling of not belonging there i prayed there like i pray in Serbian orthodox church. Believe me or not ethnicity there isn't a thing.

[@tadijafr]

@Lia Amen brother

[@user-md2ez1jl5o]

I live in Russia. I was baptized in Orthodox, but I became an atheist when I grew up. Now I'm 17 and I started to think about coming back to the Church. Once I decided to went to the Orthodox cathedral, and when I ask people who are working there: "Can I talk to the priest?", they were like: "WTF?! What do you need?". We have same problem in Russia. Russian Orthodox Church isn't good at missionare work even in Russia. Every year there are less and less people, who identify themselves as Orthodox. What personally makes me sad, that is there are kind of priests in Orthodox Church, who are Orthodox-only. They are dismissively speak of other denominations and sometimes spread hate speech about Catholics and Protestants. And this kind of priests are majority in Church. Last 6 months I'm going to the pentecostal church, but a short time ago I start attending the mass in our only catholic temple in city. Now I'm thinking about convertion to catholicism.

[@LadyMaria]

Roman Catholicism isn't any better. Their Liturgies are watered down, their Priests are stretched thin, there's very little community. And they have Pope Francis. They also talk very badly about Orthodox everywhere. Some RCs are even calling for Orthodox imprisonment.

[@brandonreed4439]

@некий В Very nice. leave Orthodox them dying now. Russian Orthodox even has the evil Patriarch Kirill.

[@LadyMaria]

@@brandonreed4439 Your comment is deleted most likely due to slander.

[@Yasen.Dobrev]

@некий В Hello. Before going to my main point, I will say a few words about the believers in Christ who are born in a tradition outside of the Orthodox Church. The question about what happens to a believer who had believed in Christ but had passed away wihtout having ever been a member of the Orthodox Church, is often asked. In 2011 there is issued the book ,,Пламень огненный. Жизнь и наследие архиепископа Серафима (Соболева)». (,,A flame of fire. The life and legacy of Archbishop Seraphim (Sobolev) (1881-1950)). I am not sure if the book is translated in English. It is a book by A.Kostrykov who is a doctor of history and a pedagogue. It contains chosen sentences of the newly canonized (2016) saint, Archbishop Seraphim (Sobolev) of Boguchar (Bulgaria). He was canonized by the Russian Church and our Church together in 2016. There he says the following about the pagans, although it is relevant in some way to those Christians outside of the Orthodox Church: ,,I asked Vladyka Seraphim: “After all, the majority of people on earth are not Christians but pagans. But among them there are good, loving, honourable people. Will they, too, all fall into the fire of the Gehenna after death? ” Vladika:“ No! For their suffering and good deeds, the pagans will not fall into the worst hellish torments, for them there is a “northern side” at the Last Judgment. They will not come to know the kingdom of God but they will not taste the terrible torments of hell, too.” He is referring to the good people who are non-believers and says that they will neither come to know the kingdom of God, nor will they suffer eternal torment. What St.Seraphim says is relevant to what St.Gregory the Theologian says in his Oration 40 - on Baptism, about the unbaptized infants - he says that they will neither be glorified, nor punished. In the Life of St. Basil the New (834-944) by Gregory the Monk, as a part of the Vision of Gregory the Monk, a disciple of our Holy and the God-bearing Father Basil the New of Constantinople, of the Last Judgment that was revealed to him, there is said the following regarding the infants who have died unbaptized:,,...Infants not enlightened with Holy Baptism Then the Lord commanded that those who were blind but walked according to the wave of God, be separated to the left. There was not a seal of evil on them, nor a seal of good. The Lord looked at them, pitying them with meekness. He also looked at their parents, scarily, blaiming them for not endeavouring to enlighten them with the Holy Baptism. And the Lord commanded His holy Angels to bestow upon them a place of rest to the west, so that they could somewhat partake in the enjoyment of eternal life but without being able to see the face of God. They said: ''All-merciful Lord Who own life and death, Thou art blessed and good and merciful, because the Lord of life and death has deprived us of temporary life by His inscrutable judgments, and that is why we ask one thing of You:"Have mercy on us, Lord. '' - And the Lord gave them a little consolation. They were unbaptized infants. They were all the same age. They glorified the goodness of God for His mercy and entered the rest, prepared for them by the Lord.'' ...‘‘ Similarly, Ambrosiaster (6th century), although he is not a Holy Father of the Church, says something about those outside of the Church, although he gives an example with Montanists, Novatianists and Donatists. He says in his Commentary on Pauline Epistles, more specifically on the book of Romans: Romans 2:15-16: ,,And their thoughts, debating with each other, accuse or even defend them 16 on the day when God will judge the secrets of humankind according to my gospel through Jesus Christ our Lord. …Those whom Paul says are in turn accused or defended by their thoughts on the day of judgement, are Christians. Those who disagree with the Catholic Church - who hold different views about Christ or about the meaning of the law according to the tradition of the church, whether Cataphrygians, Novatianists, Donatists, or other heretics - their thoughts will in turn accuse them on the day of judgment. If a person understood that the Catholic Church is the true Church and was unwilling to follow it because he did not wish to appear to have been corrected, being ashamed to abandon a view he was held for a long time, on the day of judgment he will be accused by his thinking. In fact, two ways of thinking in a person will accuse each other, good and bad. The good way of thinking accuses the bad because it has contradicted the truth. The bad way of thinking in turn accuses the good, which did not follow along as it - the bad way of thinking - thought it should. For this reason, a person who knowingly thought that the Catholic Church was good and true but persevered in heresy or schism, will be found guilty. But with a person who always thought this way (e.g., a person raised as a Montanist, Novatianist, or Donatist), suppossing that what he followed was right, his thoughts in turn will excuse him. For it will be said:,,When I thought about it, I always supposed that what I followed was right. This was my faith.“ Although this person must be corrected, his is a less serious case, because he will not be accused by his conscience on the day of judgment. In this manner will the secrets of humankind be judged on the day of God’s judgement by Jesus Christ our Lord.“ So those who have been part of the Church (I am referring to the Orthodox Church here) and leave it, are guilty of the unforgiveable sin of schism but those who are born and raised in another tradition, are not held liable for schism or heresy because they have not seceded from the Church, although Ambrosiaster says that that they will not be accused by their thoughts in the Day of Judgement, i.e. they are not condemned at the Day of Judgement but they are still not being justified because they have passed away outside of the Church. He only implies that their fate will not be of eternal damnation. This can be related to what St.Gregory says about the unbaptized infants and what St.Seraphim says about the good people among the pagans - that they will neither come to know the kingdom of God, nor suffer eternal torment. So, if someone who is born and raised outside of the Church (I mean the Eastern Orthodox Church) but has a respectful, humble, civilized attitude towards the Orthodox Church, although hacing disagreements with certain points of the teaching of the Church, does not commit the unforgivable sin. Although it is possible for a person who is born outside of the Church to commit that sin, if he or she (I am talking in general), for example, consciously insults the Church and its members, openly manifests his or her hatred towards the Church, attacks the Church, accuses it of deception etc. - this kind of attitude is also a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. But outside of that case, if someone who is born outside of the Church, has a normal attitude, an attitude of dignity and respect towards the Church (I refer to the Orthodox Church), does not commit the unforgiveable sin and will not be eternally damned (in relation with the words of St.Gregory the Theologian, St.Seraphim and Ambrosiaster) but still is not saved because he has died outside of the Church. So they are in like a middle position between eternal salvation and eternal damnation in the Gehenna. But the Church has barely referred to the matter because it has always strived to emphasize the impossibility of salvation outside of the Church - I mean the Orthodox Church. As for those who have consciously seceded from the Church, they commit the unforgiveable sin of schism - sometimes for the reason of the unforgiveable sin of heresy but not in all cases. Both schism and heresy are considered unforgiveable sins if one does not repent of them (Galatians 5:20-21) because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth (John 15:26) and since for the reason that the heresies are damnable the way of truth shall be evil spoken of (2 Peter 2:1-3), the heresies and schisms (Galatians 5:20-21) are blasphemies against the Holy Spirit which is an unforgiveable sin (Matthew 12:32), wherefore they are damnable. So if one who has become a member of the Orthodox Church through holy baptism for the remission of sins but has left the Church for another tradition and has become a member of another tradition, commits the unforgiveable sin of schism (Galatians 5:20-21) and unless one has returned to the Orthodox Church (though holy chrismation because the true baptism in the Orthodox Church is unrepeatable), that one lives under a condemnation and in order to avoid it must return to the Orthodox Church where only there is grace and salvation. God bless, brother!

[@Yasen.Dobrev]

@некий В In addition it must be said one more thing that is very important. All who started a teaching after the time of Christ and the Apostles, are not from the Holy Spirit because it is said that the vision and prophecy is sealed with the coming of the Messiah:,,Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.“ (Daniel 9:24, KJV). The sealing of any vision and prophecy refers to those who start teachings after Christ and the apostles, and does not refer to the prophecy of certain events because there were still those who prophesied events:,,And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch. 28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.“ (Acts 11:27-28, KJV). The faith is once delivered and the gates of hell cannot prevail over the Church as a whole:,,Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.“ (Jude 1:3, KJV); ,And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.“ (Matthew 16:18, KJV). In that sense the faith as dogmas and traditions has not been tainted with later human traditions and so cannot be restored to its supposed original state as the pioneers of the Reformation have claimed to do because if they were right, they would be driven by the Holy Spirit. But then it would turn our that Daniel who spoke from the Holy Spirit has made a mistake when he said that a vision and prophecy would be sealed. Therefore those who claimed to have restored the original faith by rejecting the veneration of the Holy Virgin Mary and the other saints, the episcopacy with apostolic succession, the transsubstantiation of the bread and wine into the True Body and Blood of Christ etc., were not driven by the Holy Spirit. Therefore all who reject these teachings as supposedly later human traditions, are not from the Holy Spirit. And therefore these teachings are apostolic traditions. In Scripture there is a distinction between a human tradition (Colossians 2:8) and the holy traditions of the Church:,,Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.“ (2 Thessalonians 3:6, KJV); ,,Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.“ (2 Thessalonian 2:15, KJV). What is considered a later human tradition in the historical Church, is actually part of the holy tradition of the Church. When I say historical Church, I refer to the Orthodox Church as the only successor of the apostolic Church.

[@flintymcduff5417]

I will happily remain Catholic.

[@dystopian2153]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Im Greek Orthodox. I really appreciate you sharing your journey.

[@ValidityJ]

As a non-Greek Orthodox Christian attending a Greek Orthodox Church, I very much understand your argument regarding the ethnic issues. This is my biggest personal struggle in my church. It gets SO OLD. Sometimes I jokingly tell people I was baptized Greek, because that's what it often feels like. But. I'm convicted, even with this issue, the Orthodox religion is the correct & right faith. I found too many issues with Catholicism. I'd rather put up with annoying Nationalism and be in the correct faith than to be comfortable in a wrong faith.

[@Damascene749]

Find a different church that’s oriented towards converts such as ROCOR or OCA church

[@bond3161]

Aye

[@JetsfanMrT]

Consider Eastern Catholic rites, it's basically all the good of Orthodoxy without the drawbacks

[@bond3161]

@@JetsfanMrT the issue is authority Why is Peter given all authority when in acts, James clearly is the presider? This suggests Peter is an honorable person, not the ultimate arbiter Perhaps catholic is but it a smaller portion of all the churches. All church needs to be in council

[@nuan22w3]

God bless！

[@ntmn8444]

I’ve noticed something here. Normally, when I find out someone is Catholic, I immediately just say “cool, I’m Catholic too.” I have never said, “that guy is Korean Catholic” or “that girl is Cuban Catholic.” I just say they’re Catholic. But I’ve noticed that isn’t the case in orthodoxy. I met a lady who could’ve fooled me, I didn’t know any better, she was holding a rosary and said she’d pray to Mary for me. But when I asked her, “you Catholic?” She says, “no, I’m Greek.” I said, “huh?” She said, “I’m Greek-orthodox.” That’s something I’ve since picked up from others in the orthodox community. They’re not just orthodox. They’re (country) orthodox. We are all Catholic. Someone on here is literally trying to say that Catholics divide themselves up by nationality. Lol that’s not a thing! At all. Do different Catholics in different parts of the world have their own traditions? Yes. But we are all Catholic at the end of the day. I don’t really see that same unity in orthodoxy. Who is the leader there? We are all part of the same coin, and the divisions just need to stop. It’s useless.

[@user-ym8qt2lp5o]

Excuse me sir, you made the same mistake asking her if she was a Catholic, as if the only Christians were the Catholics! Walking in the footsteps of your way of arguing, why separate Christians asking them if someone is Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox or other? She didn't ask you if you were Orthodox not even if you were a Christian, she nevertheless offered to pray for an unknown person! We don't need any leader because Jesus leads us when we follow His teachings!

[@LadyMaria]

Our leader is Christ. We do say we're Orthodox first, however we give the tradition of the Parish we attend to give the person a better idea. Likewise I've known Roman Catholics who say they are Roman Catholics or Latin Catholics and Byzantine Catholics like to differentiate, same with the other rites.

[@TomLandry1]

Brian, solid reasoning. Thank you for another great video! Another apologist who I’ve heard speak on these issues is Dr. Dave Anders. He has some interesting perspectives as well. As a side matter, which I’m sure you know, and I realize you can’t discuss everything and still have a brief video! Though you touch in this: But it strikes me that there is no single “Orthodox Church” with which all “Orthodox” denominations are in communion. Thus it’s a complete misnomer to refer to “The” Orthodox Church. “Orthodox” leaders (at least those I’ve seen on the internet) make much of their claim that they never suffered a “Reformation”. But this is a less than genuine claim. There have been multiple schisms within “Orthodoxy” and we see many countries with multiple denominations claiming to be the “true” church for that nation. This, and the fact that even the “Official” “Orthodox” Churches each maintain a degree of autonomy from each other. Thus there is no one “Orthodox” Church any more than there is any one “Protest-ant” Church that all Protest-ants agree with. But you knew that! (I just enjoy typing it! :-) God Bless You!

[@JerusalemCouncilII]

I feel same there, I do appreciate and respect the eastern traditions, aesthetics and asceticism, prayers, icons and beauty. I’d love to join an ecumenical Russian chorus, singing sacred songs in Slavic tongue, because they do have a divine and rare beauty, unique harmony. Upon visiting a Serbian Orthodox Church one time, and having asked our pope (priest) guide about communion (delicate question), if as a catholic I could receive the holy communion in his church, I was so blasted by his answer, I could sense the big gap between us. Misunderstanding. Later on visiting an ecumenical service with Copts and Russians celebrating the same patron Saints of our city (who originally came from Egypt, linked with orthodox Coptic tradition) again I felt such a distance, despite the beautiful official discourses. Uneasy feeling. They do let us feel we are not the same folks. So I am so glad to belong to the Latin church, more universal, with a pope, a Magister and also long tradition. The problem is not one tradition against another tradition, it is really the fundamental attitude towards people, towards believers. One is exclusive, the other inclusive. But we need to get inspired and take the best of eastern traditions. Should we go astray, they bring us back to the essentials.

[@Kani8122]

What would a Roman Catholic priest say to an orthodox, if he asked whether he could receive communion in the Roman church?

[@ntmn8444]

@@Kani8122 I don’t think orthodox members would have a hard time getting communion in a Catholic Church. We profess the same creed, and our baptisms are similar. The opposite seems to be case for Catholics in orthodox churches.

[@Tytheband]

There are many fundamental differences in the two, from which Catholicism has innovated far away from the original Tradition. But especially when your religion has a rich history of systematically murdering the monks and nuns and parish members of their religion, you may not be welcomed as openly as you would like. It’s much easier for Catholics to extend that “virtue” to Orthodox as they ignore the history. But virtue that comes natural or is under false pretenses with no struggle is no virtue

[@ragnardanneskajold1880]

@@Kani8122- the Orthodox person would be welcomed to receive communion in any Latin Church Vatican 1 I believe made this very clear.

[@xtra.squish]

Orthodox Christianity is catholic and apostolic ❤️

[@pemcortes9467]

Your arguments are all in point. They were also what i noticed especially the historical effect on the world. The ottoman empire had more than a thousand years of rule devastating former christian cultures in their expansion of the empire and at its height would have ruled the entire world if not for lepanto and the holy rosary. Instead, the catholic christian ethos and viewpoint expanded to be the world wide norm that it is today. This is what Jesus wanted. This was what the Bible and Torah prophesied. The ottoman, indian and chinese empires never established such a worldwide norm even at their height. Yet, the orthodox churches fell under the ottoman rule. Jesus said that the gates of hell will not withstand His Church.

[@8elias8]

Hey Brian, talk to Jay Dyer. He'll clear up a lot of things for you.

[@Onyx_eye_records]

Interesting! I converted to Orthodoxy over a year ago. I think I was attracted to the melting pot of our small-town orthodox congregation. It is technically Carpathian-Russian, but the liturgy is in English. We have 56% Protestant converts - and the rest are Catholic, Serbian/Greek/Russian/etc cradle orthodox. I was really attracted to the melting pot and the warmth of the community. However, I know there are Western Rite Orthodox churches, and we are in communion- it is very similar to old catholic, and they do accept certain tenants of Catholicism that do not conflict with orthodox teaching. They even accept certain saints after the schism.

[@matthewhamstein3811]

Where are you from? I go to Saint Alexis

[@edwardmikkelsen9215]

Nailed it. I'm a convert as well (Byzantine Catholic, as it happens). I spend a lot of time in Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches. Lots of lovely, God-fearing folks who have no idea how off-putting the national/ethnic tones are to folks who do not identify with their particular national and/or linguistic heritage.

[@DF_UniatePapist]

My brother, this is a very good video, but you seem to be completely unaware of the Eastern Catholic Churches. The reason I say this is that, had you been aware of their existence, you would have realized that the idea of being subject to a “foreign Patriarch” is exactly the same in the Catholic Church. You said that unless a foreign Patriarch has universal authority a Christian across the world cannot be subject to him, but that argument actually works against the Catholic Church in the same way. For example, Maronite Catholics in Canada are subject to the Maronite Patriarch of Antioch, Syro-Malabar Catholics in Canada are subject to the Patriarch of Trivandrum, Chaldean Catholics in Canada are subject to the Patriarch of Babylon, etc. No Catholic Patriarch (other than the Pope) has universal authority, but every Patriarch has Catholics around the world subject to him. I agree with you that Eastern Orthodoxy is not the true Catholic Church, but the arguments you made in this video, when applied consistently, also go against the Catholic Church.

[@BrianHoldsworth]

I am aware of them, a good friend of mine is a Ukrainian Catholic priest. The reason it isn't a problem for Catholics to be governed by a foreign patriarch is because that is perfectly compatible with Catholic theology. It is not, however, compatible with Eastern Orthodox theology which places limits upon the patriarch to stay within his temporal boundaries.

[@dominikpavelic5339]

The problems in the Catholic Church in all of its history are actually reason FOR believing that She is the true Christ's bride. Because, in spite of all bad popes, all bad decisions, all the evil that have been done in the Church itself, She still stands with unchanged doctrine and morality.

[@the-square-hub]

Well said my friend

[@johnyang1420]

Absolutely!!!

[@JumbaGumba]

The Papacy and Filioque are not present in the first 1000 years of the church. There’s your change in doctrine. The Orthodox church maintains its purity by anathematising heretics, where as the RC church seems to allow them to defile her from the inside

[@walterdreiberg]

@Night Bo thank you for this.

[@Yasen.Dobrev]

@@JumbaGumba Hello. Unfortuneately modernistic theology attacks the original Orthodox theology. The actions of Constantinople in Ukraine since 2018 are related to the modernistic theology that it has been embracing for decades, especially regarding the pushing for ecumenism and regarding the rejection of the penal substitutionary atonement (rejected on the basis of the wrong clain that it is a Western influnece on Orthodox theology). The matter of the rejection of the PSA is directly related to the ongoing crisis within the Orthodox Church regarding the internal schism that occurred in 2018. If we go through the history of the Orthodox polemics with the West regarding the Western deviations of the ancient faith, we will see nowhere a rejection by the Orthodox theologians of the penal subsitutionary atonement as supposedly a Western legalistic error or a rejection of the legal Anselmian understanding of the original sin as supposedly a Western error. If the penal substitutionary atonement was a Western heresy, it would have been condemned as such exactly in the polemics of the Orthodox with the West, for example during the attempts for a union between Rome and the Eastern Orthodox Church because during those attempts there clearly arose the dogmatic differences between the East and the West. So the theory about the Latin captivity of Orthodox theology is a myth. The schism within Orthodoxy today is rooted exactly in the ongoing modernistic anti-PSA theology (at least that is one of the major reasons for the schism) because the Churches that fell inito schism since 2018 had been gradually embracing it since the late 1950s. But significant Orthodox theologians (some of them saints) have clearly defined the anti-PSA understanding of the Redemption as a heresy. St.Theophan of Poltava (1875-1940) calls it a ,,cross-fighting heresy'' because it fight against the Cross as a tool of the Redemtion of our sins. It is also refuted by St.Seraphim Sobolev (1881-1950). The first major source of the cross-fighting heresy is Metpolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky (1863-1936) with his work ''The dogma of Redemption'' (1917) which rejects the patristic Orthodox understanding of Redemption. Metropolitan Anthony gave the name ,,moral monism‘‘ to his anti-legalistic teaching. What characterizes moral monism is the rejection of the traditional Patristic teaching of the Redemption, Retribution and Judgment. Metropolitan Anthony expressed his anti-legalistic teaching also in his Cathehism (1926). He explicitly rejected the penal substitutionary atonement on the Cross and claimed that Christ redeemed humanity with His tears in the Garden of Gethsemane and not through His Suffering and Death on the Cross. A follower of his ideas and another major modernist of the 20th century is Protopresbyter John Romanides (1927-2001) with his fundamental modernistic work ,,The Ancestral Sin'' (1957). Another fundamental modernistic work is ,,The River of Fire'' (1980) by Alexandre Kalomiros (1931-1990). Unfortunately there are traces of anti-legalism in the explanatory notes in the Orthodox Study Bible, although iit must be said that it is not issued by none of the Local Orthodox Churches - p.3555:,,...Rather than justification as a legal acquittal before God, Orthodox believers see justification by faith as a covenant relationship with Him, centered in union with Christ (Rom 6:1-6)...''; p.3558:...Our relationship with God is not something static, a legal fiction given to us by a Divine Judge...'' There are four significant moments that refer to the events in Orthodoxy in the recent few years and that must be mentioned. First, it is the conducting, most notably by the Constantinopolitan Patriarchate of a policy of ecumenism which attempts to unify all Christian denominations. Second, the decade-lengthy process (starting more severely in the late 1950s) of spreading anti-PSA modernistic theology by some modernistic Orthodox theologians, unfortunately gave bitter fruits to the point that the Constantinopolitan Patriarchate embraced the modernistic claim that the teaching of the penal subsitutionary atonement which is an Orthodox teaching and a teaching of the ancient Church, is a late Western teaching like the modernists claim and today rejects it. (www.goarch.org/-/btb-173?inheritRedirect=true). (The Orthodox modernistic theologians recognize the term PSA only in the sense of Christ saving us from death by subsitututing it with His Death on the Cross but reject the term in the sense of Christ saving us also from God's wrath and second death of the eternal punishment for the unrepented sinners.) Third, the Constantinopolitan Patriarchate has embraced an eastern form of papism. Here is what Patriarch Bartholomew says:,,The beginning of the Orthodox Church is the Ecumenical Patriarchate; “in this is life, and the life is the light of the Churches.” The late Metropolitan Kyrillos of Gortyna and Arcadia, a beloved Hierarch of the Mother Church and personal friend, was right to underline that “Orthodoxy cannot exist without the Ecumenical Patriarchate.” (www.uocofusa.org/news_180901_1). This is a indirect claim for infallibility. Fourth, there are the non-canonical actions of Constantinople in Ukraine. These actions caused an arising internal schism within the Eastern Orthodox Church. This is an English translation of the 2019 letter of the Bulgarian Metropolitan Daniil of Vidin to and eparchial metropolitan bishops of the Patriarchate of Alexandria, Patriarchate of Jerusalem, Church of Cyprus, Church of Greece, Albanian Orthodox Church and the Romanian Orthodox Church: new.sliven.net/res/news/292888/___________________.pdf. He explains the issue of the 2018 Moscow-Constantinopolitan schism entirely from a canonical perspective. This is a link to a famous 1995 Letter from Patriarch Bartholomew to Patriarch Alexey of the Moscow Patriarchate on the Ukrainian Diaspora: orthodoxsynaxis.org/2018/10/10/1995-letter-bartholomew-alexey/. In the letter the Patriarch clearly refers to the groups that were later included by the Patriarchate of Constantinople in the recently formed Orthodox Church of Ukraine (2018) by issuing of a Tomos of autocephaly, as schismatic groups. The Patriarchate of Constantinople openly entered communion with the newly formed church of Ukraine that consists of those schismatic groups. But the communion with excommunicated persons, leads to excommunication of those who have communed with them:,,And, if any one of the bishops, presbyters, or deacons, or any one in the Canon shall be found communicating with excommunicated persons, let him also be excommunicated, as one who brings confusion on the order of the Church.'' (canon 2, Council of Antioch, 341). That is why it is argued by some Orthodox theologians and priests that the Patriarchate of Constaninople is no longer a part of the Eastern Orthodox Church since 2018. In other words it fell from the Church like the non-Chalcedonians in 451 and Rome in 1054. Unfortunately there is a danger that the internal schism could grow bigger. The Alexandrian Patriarchate supported the schismatic OCU in 2019 and as a result the Moscow Patriarchate ceased Eucharistic Communion with it like with the Constantinopolitan Patriarchate in 2018. That way the Alexandrian Patriarchate also fell from the Body of the Church. Nowadays the Constantinopolitan Patriarchate and the Alexandrian Patriarchate and the Churches which took the side of the schismatics and recognized them are not part of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Those other Churches are partially the Churches of Greece and Cyprus - partially because some of the bishops of their holy Synods did not and still do not recognize the new OCU. Things can change if they can become again part of the Orthodox Church but right now they are in a schism, thus being out of the divine grace. There are modernists within all Orthodox Churches but the Constantinopolitan Patriarchate and the other Local Churches that supported Constantinople and fell into schism, too, have embraced the anti-PSA modernistic theology as a doctrine, whence they fell into schism. Schism is a result of embracing a heresy. That has always been the case in the history of the Church. That was the case with the non-Chalcedonians in 451 and with Rome in 1054. In that sense the statement that it is the Constantinopolitan Patriarchate and respectively the other Churches that recognized the actions of Constantinople, that fell into schism, is not political but refers to dogma.

[@garrettdyess1110]

This was a very well done and kind video, Brian. I love you how you state from the very beginning your love for our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters. This approach is far superior than the bickering that we see so often between Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, and Protestants. Thank you.

[@mathieuconklin3146]

I think "bickering" is good so long as it is to learn which Church is true. If one is true and one is not, a lack of conflict would almost be an insult to God as it demonstrates that you don't care enough to correct error

[@garrettdyess1110]

@@mathieuconklin3146 I can agree with this. I am speaking more to the difference between respectful debate and shouting.

[@bartlarsson6432]

The ethnic component of US Orthodox Christianity is basically over in most places. I attend a ROCOR (Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia) parish in west central West Virginia, where over half the parish members are white Americans of mostly Western European descent.

[@Gio-ce8ob]

I love many things about the Orthodox churches but noticed Rome is always the one leaving the door for unity open. What turned me away was they aren’t just in schism with Rome, but from each other! Antioch is in schism with Jerusalem, Moscow with Constantinople, several in America weren’t in communion with each other, it was like a never ending division the further I researched. How can I be apart of a church who isn’t even in communion with itself? How can they preach forgiveness and unity while being in division with everyone? I can’t reconcile that. I’ll pray for them but cannot let them drag my soul down.

[@wardone8991]

I was with you until 6:15. The RC church doesn’t seem to be the same church it was even 50 years ago, much less before the east west split. On the point of being most unchanged it seems obvious the orthodox win.

[@revelation20232]

How is Orthodoxy the answer when the Orthodox churches don't have missionaries & don't even agree with each other on doctrine? Orthodox is by far the smallest branch of Christendom. It does not have the resources to do really anything. Remove Orthodoxy from Christendom history and history doesn't change much. It has been largely irrelevent since the beginning while the RCC has carried the torch.

[@borneandayak6725]

I believe Jesus through Catholicism...

[@ChristopherJohnsonbowtie]

There feels like a lot of ignorance of Church history here. I’m Catholic and I appreciate what your trying to do but an enormous amount of what your saying is patronizing to Eastern Churches in Communion with Rome. I’m also concerned with your comments on the fall of the Eastern Sees. That is borderline bigoted when you think about it. The Marianites have always been in Communion with Rome and are a minority in their country.

[@orthodoxretrograde40]

I’m Anglo Australian and an ex-Catholic Orthodox catechumen who goes to a parish made up largely of English speaking people of various European and Asian backgrounds. Ethnicity has nothing to do with this. There are plenty of legitimate debate points that one could bring up on either side but this one is just so tired and pointless.

[@DannaCat]

Out of all the videos about Catholicism I fall upon this one while living in Edmonton myself! I was baptized in 2015 at a Protestant church but have been presented with Catholicism and the Orthodox church both through people and the internet. It's confusing and a little nerve wrecking (especially with some Protestant friends being opposed...). I pray God will help lead me in this.

[@BrianHoldsworth]

Yes, there's a lot to learn. Check out my videos about why I converted to Catholicism (two parts). The second part is more about the theological reasons I chose RC over Protestantism. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpzUgZ2upZd_qtk

[@rockztah911]

Hi can you give us an update?

[@mjones6894]

I believe Jesus is the messiah, am sure we all can agree

[@SuperGreatSphinx]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus

[@vernthebarbarian546]

As a recent convert to the Orthodox Church, I found your video interesting and thought provoking. I think your critique on the ethnocentric nature of some orthodox parishes is fair. I have heard similar tales from others who visited an orthodox church. My parish is 90% American converts, so I am blessed to have a much different experience. It is interesting also, that I came to different conclusions after looking at similar evidence, especially when it comes to the providential argument you brought up at the end. In the Gospels, our Lord tells His disciples that in this life we will have many troubles. We will be persecuted for His name's sake. The persecution and oppression suffered by the eastern church under the Turks and the Soviets, seem to me as a fulfillment of what Jesus was saying. As for your thoughts on trying to mend the division between east and west, specifically when talking about the council when eastern bishops made concessions to the west regarding papal supremacy and the filioque, it must be remembered that this council took place while the east was under severe threat from Muslim conquest. It was political pressures that encouraged the concessions, not the revocation of the concessions. When the laity of the east heard what the results of the council were, they chose to risk a Muslim yoke rather than compromise their faith. All in all, the split between eastern and western christianity is the greatest tragedy since the Fall. I pray that it will be mended.

[@andreassvensson895]

The Chatholic and Orthodox churches should be in communion again. We are brothers in Christ.

[@DejanJovanovic123]

Who really and sincerely look for the Lord, he eventually becomes an Orthodox Christian.

[@georgeince4136]

The Pope's envoy excommunicated the Eastern patriarch first.

[@m_m_m_m_m_m_m_m_m_m_m]

I have been studying these topics for a while now and I find myself closer and closer to Orthodoxy. It seems you have a few flaws in your logic and facts. But there are enough comments covering them already. God bless.

[@triplea6174]

Since you have more knowledge at the moment does orthodoxy also pray to the saints/mary?

[@AR-qs2ng]

@@triplea6174 Yes, in orthodoxy we "pray"" to the saints. meaning we ask them for prayers. just as you would ask your friend for prayers etc. Christ is risen and death has no power over the unity we have in Christ.