British Army Webbing 1903 - 2010 | AATV EP067

Gadge and Anvil talk through their collection of British Army Webbing and LBE from 1903-2010. There are some significant differences and indeed many similarities.
Please let us know in the comments if we got anything wrong or missed anything. Do you have any memories or stories about using this kit that you would like to share?
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Hosts:
Tom 'Anvil' Hibberd
Gareth 'Gadge' Harvey
Camera:
Tom Hibberd
Production & Editing:
Black Dog Design Services
This video was originally shot for Airsoft Action TV
www.airsoft-action.online
You can find us on Social Media @:
/ airsoftaction
/ airsoftactionmag

[@britishmilitaria2947]

My friends uncle was sent to the Falklands with the paras and was involved in the battle of goose green

[@cirian75]

I joined in 1994 and we got the 58 pattern, about 4 weeks in to basic we all got the green PLCE webbing that was new still in its packaging , and by final fling we had the DPM webbing, all within 10 weeks, we we were among the last to use all 3, I saw guys with the ops vest but never had it

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

What did you think of them? I might get some my collection out to talk about them.

[@cirian75]

@@AnvilAirsoftTV 58 was ok'ish till the second it got wet, then it was a wet never drying pain in the arse, after 4 weeks we were very happy to get the PLCE, it was much much better, we had the day packs as well which was good if you didn't need the full burgeon, being able to get the PLCE off fast was a god send in basic

[@jamesdeveson4655]

Hi guys, the speed loader was wrong way round and the bandalior carried 150 rounds of 5.56 mm, 3 clips of 10 per pocket. It was great watching all old I ware during my reserve service. Thank you

[@neilward3790]

I was a member of the trials section at the Army Personnel Research Establishment from 87 to 91. We carried out trials of the PLCE, these trials would involve spending the mornings repeatedly going over, under and through the obstacles on the specialist assault course followed by section attacks all afternoon! We trailed (tested to destruction) various designs and manufacturing methods of webbing from several countries until we came up with the PLCE. It's not perfect but certainly better than anything else at that time. We trailed any and all new kit before it it was sent for mass production. Spending 8 hours in a wet sleeping bag at minus 40° was fun 😉

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Hi Neil. Thanks for commenting. That’s really interesting. Have you ever spoken to a collector or enthusiast about those trials?

[@lordsllim8053]

I was a tom for 20yrs and started off too, with 1WFR at the demo battalion in Warminster showing off the new IW. Gareth is right I saw very few problems with the L85. Only issue first off was the mag release catch being uncovered. You would load the weapon run then make ready only to find the mag was gone. The weapons were recalled and a horse shoe welded over to prevent the release button from being pressed. My mate and I came up with all sorts of stuff kit wise, making our own out of cordora, changing plce fastening to fast clip. I even wore an American pasgt helmet with dpm cover on. I was laughed at back then.. oh how times change

[@78thgeorge]

Guys to let you know, The 1903 bandolier equipment, was made from the British army’s experience from the second Boer war from 1899 to 1902, this mainly was to make a set that allows the individual more mobility and lighten the load of a infantrymen. Both infantry and cavalry used the 1903 bandoliers, 5 pouch for the infantry and 9 pouch for the cavalry. Along with this a waist belt would be carried, on it was 4 extra pouches 2 10 rounders and 2 15 rounders, for a total of 100 rounds per infantryman. You guys also missed out the 1908, the most influential British army equipment sets ever, this set was the first the feature the name “ Webbing” (which the modern British army call every equipment set now) this set was revolutionary for the army, allowing easy modifications, changes and comfort instead of thick buff leather. This set also stayed In service way into the days in ww2, used by some British army units until the battle of France in 1940 and second line or empire troops Throughout the war, such as the Indian army.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Thanks Jack. Good info. The main reason we didn’t cover the 1908 equipment is that we didn’t have any to show.

[@78thgeorge]

Airsoft Action TV that's fine, happy to help 👍

[@AZSP1966]

I have all original M1 carbine webbing and pouches with the X back harness used from WW2 - Vietnam. When the US started phasing them out they were reissued to South Vietnamese Army troops.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

I'd like to do a similar episode for US gear but we don't have a full set through the ages to do it.

[@darkogaurina4778]

U mean pistol belt with m1 carabine pouches or there was dedecaded belt that i fo not know about?

[@DevilbyMoonlight]

unusual thing with 44 webbing is the belt - its in 3 pieces - btw had no issues using 30 round mags on SLR - lots of guys carried them

[@DangRockets]

Fascinating talk. I'm a more interested in Great War stuff but found the evolution of webbing very interesting. Another commenter mentioned getting a soldier on to interview, for each set of webbing featured. I think that'd be a good bit of living history viewing. Keep up the good work lads.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

We have a bit of a gap in knowledge in Great War webbing I’m afraid. Thanks for watching.

[@stuartlathe2310]

Nerve agent pretreatment sets, your welcome 👍🏻 Good vid it takes me back to being wet in my 58 pattern on Soltau-Luneburg training area.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

The whole thing terrifies me! Find it quite horrifying to be honest.

[@TaZ101SAGA]

37 pattern is great. It does the job and doesn't slide around because of the pin system. Lovely kit. Absolutely smashing vid fellas, keep it up!

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Glad you enjoyed it. We have a few more like it on the channel.

[@jackoneilsg1]

You got the ammunition-weight-thing the wrong way round. In Vietnam the US army found out (as the Germans and Russians already did in WW2), that it doesn't so much matter, what you shoot at the enemy, but how much of it. So the idea was, let's take a smaller cartridge, so the soldier can carry more of it. Also 7,62 Nato was simply to powerfull to be shot effectively in bursts. Apart from that, great video!

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Hey thanks for commenting. We were paraphrasing a lot and trying to emphasis the light-heavy-light-heavy cycle that designers and infantry went through.

[@jackoneilsg1]

@@AnvilAirsoftTV and you did a lovely job at that! 1:06 h and I never got bored! 👍

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Jack O'NeilSG1 thanks Jack. We get a bit worried about this sort of episode but to be honest we like doing it for our own enjoyment!

[@kurtsteiner8384]

My grandfather wore these in ww1, norfolks cAvilry 8th batalion thetford division. He transfered to royal engineers. Sappers. I may have one from saudi arabia still leather held one clip 5 rounds 303 rifles. Generally you did a good job my service was rn 1979 to 1993. We had smgs, slr gpmgs etc. Sa80 came later but did make the gun sight at a company i worked at after discharge did the machining.

[@kurtsteiner8384]

My grandfather had a bandanna in ww1 still have it somewhere i think leather. He was norfolk ta to start then transfered to royal engineers. Sapper i think. He had german bayonnet the butcher one 18 inches in length. I have used a 303 lee enfild as a sea cadet. I remember the slr and smg and browning pistol. Sa80 was after my discharge from RN. However have made the gun sights for them at a company i worked at. They did all the maching on them. You are very knowledgeable about all this.

[@pierevojzola9737]

Hi, once you got on to PLC you lost me as thats “after my time”, but anything before that I can talk about until the cows come home. Each set of webbing changed the concept of what a grunt could, would or agree to carry. The great learning curve to us so called experienced soldiers when we passed P Company and joined the regiment. It all came to weight you could jump with and what is the minimum you could get away with. Forget the basics like ammo, water, food and medication. There were always additional items that were dished out like, mortars, grenades, explosives, mines, belts of ammunition for the MG’s, additional mags for the LMG, 3.5 rocket launchers, rockets, batteries and in dire cases Jerry cans of water. What you blokes kit out with is the minimum for an overnight quicky! Then if you were with the mortars or signals, well you didn’t jump, you fell out of the door. I have always carried more in weight in bag & chute then my own body weight. The other consideration was the long patrols where you were promised re-supply. If you believed in promises you went hungry and thirsty. The benefit of going to SLR’s from 303 rifles was that those brought up on the 303 Enfield were more frugal with their ammo and better shots and their rifles didn’t seize up with the fine sand of the Gulf states. The advantage for the SLR came in Nam because of the 7.62 ammo of the SLR allowed our blokes to fire through the vegetation and once shot with the SLR people stayed down and out. Trees? What trees? Enough from this old codger! Cheers mate. Harera

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Thanks for your thoughts. Always great to read about people’s real life experiences with gear.

[@pierevojzola9737]

Hi, thanks for the mention. After I wrote about the kit I realised that I never mentioned the webbing on top of the kidney pouches that was meant to carry the gas cape. We all tried to scrounge or “borrow” a camouflaged poncho, rolled it up with a lightweight blanket to use for sleeping in. The only time we had sleeping bags was when the company made camp and CQMS and his gear caught up with us. I know that for you modern guys its hard to imagine going out on a week or ten day patrol with only what you can carry in cold, hot, dry and wet places without the comfort of even decent underwear! We lived in ten man tents in Bahrain airfields spare runway. Compo rations for the whole year, a company on “STANDBY”, a company on fatigue’s, a company building a permanent camp and a company on patrols in Muscat & Oman. We got measured up for the new No. 2 Dress uniform before leaving the Gulf and when we got back to camp after disembarkation leave none of us fitted into our new uniforms! We had all lost so much weight that the measurements for the uniforms were US! I got married to go to Cyprus but got my posting switched to the Gulf when Qasim threatened to invade Kuwait. So, from an exercise in Norway above the Artic Circle to Persian Gulf in one quick move with a short honeymoon in between! I have toted up this week and I figured that I have learned and forgotten fifteen languages, worked in twenty five. It’s just as well that as a foreigner I am use to change. Now I live in the South Pacific paradise. I just found out that my son was twice in the UK’s air soft team that went to the States, I just asked him about the airsoft SLR’s as I never heard of them, and he tells me “ oh, I have two of them”! It’s a small world. Anyway, love your vids, keep it going. Cheers mate. Harera

[@ausman9165]

yeah, only australian SASR really cut down their rifles, got bigger magazines, put for-grips on them and sometimes even make them full auto.

[@jamieslingsby9907]

Was an army cadet in from about 2006-2010. we got issued 58 pattern webbing, bloody hated the stuff (wasn't helped by us never being given more than 1 magazine at a time so we never really had anything to fill the 2 ammo pouches with) Saw many a cadet buy their own webbing. Plce, asault vests all sorts, wish i had. one time we did the whole 'lets set up a webbing set specifically for you' even though it had my name on it i almost never got it given to me when i had to draw my webbing out.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

No wonder people buy their own kit!

[@NepaAirsoft]

Love videos like this. I got some kit like that for my STEN and love it. Liking the other items you showed off. Great job!

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Thanks. People seem to have enjoyed it so we’ll do more of this sort of thing!

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

I find it fascinating. I’m glad others do too. We’re discussing what to talk about next.

[@dunkyhut]

Great video again guys

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

An oldie this one. We may update it at some point.

[@thesilverbackozzy8323]

Great presentation and awesome information 👍

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Thanks! :)

[@jasemac5391]

Good information guy’s 👍🏻🇦🇺 I should do a video like this with all my Aussie gear from WW1 to Current issue, and good you buddy for service to your country 🇬🇧

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

That would be a really interesting watch

[@tonydotnottingham]

A really enjoyable deep dive chaps, thanks.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

+tonydotnottingham thanks Tony. Is there another similar sort of topic you would like us to cover?

[@tonydotnottingham]

@@AnvilAirsoftTV During the video you mentioned the frequency of soldiers modifying issued kit to address it's deficiencies and purchasing commercial kit to address those needs. Would be interested in a followup showing examples of common mods which became popular e.g. you've mentioned trimming of brims of hats previously, are there any other mods which were commonly copied. Would also be interested to see adoptions of non-issued kit - e.g. captured kit from opposing forces being put to use (presumably as it addressed a need not met by issued kit) to commercial off the shelf kit seeing front-line use. Appreciate that might require more use of royalty free images (where available) or photos of equipment that there isn't access to, but it's interesting to see how people have solved problems, and addressed changes in tactics with equipment use.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

tonydotnottingham that’s a really good idea. I think between us we can manage that :)

[@dannyotter7247]

Loved this, interesting and informative - woudl be good to get some respective serving opo for each year to give commentary on actual application, and also do the same for clothing/doctrine.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Thanks Danny, glad you enjoyed it. We’re going to try a short series of ‘webbing walks’ soon so look out for that.

[@ThinBrownLine]

Fanfeckintastic vid guys, a pretty damn good look at British load bearing gear. I actually still own 2 Ops vests. Not sure where I got the second one though 🤔. I started in airsoft using the ops vest as thats what I was used to but for the game decided to go for a more 'osprey esk' style of load bearing, I still wear dpm (best camo pattern by far 😉) but wear a fully modular plate carrier and cumberbund so I can place my gear exactly where I want it. Again brilliant vid guys 👍

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Thanks Mark. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@46templar]

Boy i loved it and it opened my eye up ☺☺☺

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Thanks Mark, is there a subject you like us to cover on a similar topic?

[@andrewcombe8907]

Never understood the fact British webbing seems to have been designed to make the water bottle as inaccessible as possible (save for the 44 pattern bottle and carrier).

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Some patterns you really need another person to get it out for you.

[@brucekendall9873]

Such a confusing shirt lmao I really want it I honestly hate the sea of joy division shirts but that one's a pretty funny counter to that

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

😂😂😂

[@PeterGiddens]

Great show! Ever wonder how the evolution of kit & doctrine would have gone on if NATO standardized on a 7mm/.280 FAL?

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Interesting question!

[@Yandarval]

The front iron sights were bloody dangerous doing drill with them . Nicks and cuts on the face from the L85, were common during the early days. I used the Cadet POS L85 in the mid to late 80s. Used a Sterling in the 90s (RAMC). The L*% is a bloody awful weapon for a medic. Heavy, gets in the way. Sterling, much lighter and smaller. Chuck it over you back to work. The Sterling stayed put, not so the L85.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Ouch! Thanks for your recollections. Always interesting to hear from people who had to use them for real.

[@couchcamperTM]

I never understood the British bottle and mug idea. plastic, AND heavy. No wonder the troops preferred the older bottle ...

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

I prefer the plastic bottle to the ‘44 pattern. The plastic mug not so much. I have a metal crusader in my kit.

[@LethalRenegade]

This is ace guys

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Thanks. We tried to go into the why they are set up like that rather than just focusing on the webbing itself.

[@BlueStarJT]

I never knew that the british army adopted the czech box fed machine gun , ovbiously the british used that design to make the bren gun , looks identical.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Yup it’s based off ZB26. Very good design and well loved except by the bloke that carried it.

[@BlueStarJT]

@@AnvilAirsoftTV hahaha .

[@r4fken]

Very interesting. Though i have to say I like my low profile plate carrier and rig. Funny that it seems a few guys are now using plate carriers which have the option to clip rigs into, Haley, Spiritus etc.

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Pippin there are very few new ideas. Delta were doing that in the 80’s and I saw some WW1 armour in the Imperial War Museum that looks just like a modern plate carrier :)

[@olly31d13]

58 pattern ,, one poncho roll,, in that NBC And poncho ,on belt , ammo pouch , nbc , frog ,kidney pouch , water bot , ammo pouch ,, large pack (useless ) bergen was used , if NI ,, a butt pocket was attached to belt , weapon used SLR,, Then L85,,mk 1,, with 58 pattern , until the new webbing was issued ,,

[@66kbm]

@1.06.05 Green PLCE. Earliest i saw it, never used it, was in 1987 with 19 Sqn RCT 4 ADTR. This was trailed with the L1A1 in that unit. I was 12 Sqn. Never actually got to play with it. '58 till i left in '90. Surprisingly enough, RCT still using L1A1 in the first Gulf War in '91. 4 years, no progress. However again....From the 2010 upwards, i think that the Military no longer spends years of procurement to get the body armour and fighting load good/correct/usable, it goes straight to the Civilian manufacturers...Arktis, Warrior, Profile Equipment, etc?

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Recently Lots of money had been spent on Virtus. Most of which is made by Revision and is generally not liked at all by soldiers.

[@rmc_reenacting]

Actually thats the Osprey mk4a. The Osprey mk 4 didnt have the pals on the left arm thingy

[@rmc_reenacting]

*shoulder

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Cool thanks. I still hate it :)

[@rmc_reenacting]

Airsoft Action TV 😂

[@puma1304]

I am very interested in carrying equipment in general, especially for civilian use, and found this quite interesting even when I do know most of what was shown here (I own and use some WWII + Vietnam + Afghanistan gear) I have been evaluating the convenience/or not of PLCE solutions for civilian use, and until now I conclude that a reduced and very specific use (first aid, water, torch, knife, some tools) is quite ok, although the modern backpack (max 65L/20Kg) is still the best overal solution.