British Leyland Princess - Optional Extra

[@astonmartin4360]

Back in 1976 our neighbour Malcolm bought a brand new Princess.He was so proud of it and washed it almost every day.Other neighbours came over to look at it and comment on how cool it was.A couple of weeks later my dad bought a brand new Lotus Elite.Malcolm didn't look happy.

[@L_U-K_E]

Love the Lotus Elite

[@boronsniify]

Which one failed to proceed first?

[@DeLorean4]

I've worked at various car factories over the years. The quality of what gets churned out is a direct representation of working relationships. My first launch experience was at a problem-child facility. There was so much lieing, massaged data, back door deals, back stabbing, and old boys clubs. Honest hard-working people who tried to fix issues were blocked at every step of the way by individuals who exerted whatever power they had to slow things down, either to work more overtime, milk more money from the mother ship, or just to feel superior to another human being. The only two times I lost my temper at someone and shouted in the last ten years, was during my short stint at that bad factory. I'm in North America, and always thought BL cars were interesting, but my experiences in the industry have affected my perspective. When sad suppliers send parts designed by sad engineers to be assembled by sad unions, you get sad cars that get bought by sad customers.

[@markrl75]

I think that is probably true of so many organisations. Unfortunately BL became an old whore riddled with just about every possible problem and industrial disease going. If it had been a horse a vet would have put it out of its misery by shooting it. I felt so sorry for Michael Edwards trying to turn around that hopeless mess. GM had many similar problems but on a much bigger scale however hopefully they will just about be able to save themselves (having sucked up a great deal of taxpayers cash).

[@Hvitserk67]

I'm a long time follower of the regular videos, but I have to say that I like this format where you discuss more freely cons & pros regarding the different car models and how they came about and were executed. I remember that my uncle once in the late 70's bought a Rover SD1 3500 Vanden Plas. It was a very elegant car with absolutely all equipment (sunroof, electric windows, automatic transmission, air conditioning, etc.), but it did not take long before serious problems with the car appeared (mainly electrical problems and rust). An acquaintance of the family at the same time had a BMW E9 3.0 CSi from 1974 (ie at that time a 5-6 year old car), but even though it was older than my uncle's Rover, it appeared to be a newer car and with a far better perceived quality. I therefore believe that you are absolutely right that the problems British car industry had at this time actually started with the decisions made by the management. Through the 70s and 80s, the German car manufacturers and especially Mercedes-Benz and BMW took over the part of the market that Jaguar and Rover in particular had previously dominated. Better design and mechanics were certainly an important reason, but most important of all was durability and minimal flaws and shortcomings. Keep up the good work :)

[@LittleCar]

Thanks - I think this one came out well. The next video won't have an Optional Extra, as it features Patrick le Quément, so Little Car will feature the whole interview. But I intend to do more Optional Extras in the new year.

[@Hvitserk67]

@@LittleCar Thank you for the answer. I look forward to the interview with Patrick le Quément. He is really interesting and thought far out of the box when he was a car designer for Renault in particular, but also Ford with the Sierra model (which was completely groundbreaking in terms of design when it came on the market).

[@Mike_Connor]

I agree - great video and a good explainer that it wasn't all the fault of the trade unions, even though they got the blame. I've heard stories of BL managers going into their office and sleeping pretty much half the day - it was a cushy number for them, so why change it, even if the company was sinking?!

[@starrdan]

Great extra. Thanks. I worked in Cowley in design office in the mid 80s as part of the BL student/grad programme during the Ambassador, Acclaim, SD1, Maestro, Montego years. A lot of the union issues seemed to be fears about jobs. The govt was only putting cash in to Leyand to invest in technology (think Not The Nine O’Clock News “built by Roberts”). The incoming Maestro/Montego lines were highly mechanised when compared to the SD1 lines that were just across the factory aisle - for example lots of robot welding and weld tagging. I spent a little time seconded to the Industrial Engineering function. These were the guys with stopwatches designing and planning throughput performance. They told us that the new Maestro/Montego body-in-white production lines would only need 10% of the people to build the vehicles due to the mechanisation, and other assembly areas were also being automated in many places. As the SD1 line was being ripped out, 9 out of 10 could see their jobs disappearing. The effect of technology was also being felt in the traditional white-collar design areas as drawing boards and slide rules were being replaced by CAD/CAM.

[@LittleCar]

Thanks - very interesting. This was of course happening to all car companies at the time, but the toxic nature of the relationship at BL only made this problem worse.

[@paulqueripel3493]

I'm sure it was looked at differently somewhere like VW. BL, how can we make the same number of cars with fewer people, VW, how can we use the same number of people to make more cars?

[@skylined5534]

@Paul Queripel You got it right the First time and that goes for all big business. You don't invest in automation to keep and pay the same sized work force. That's the whole point of automation.

[@christopherconard2831]

The disconnect between management and labor was common in the US too. In many companies, US and UK, there were sometimes three dining areas. One for blue collar workers, one for white collar workers, and an executive dining room for the big bosses. There was an interview with a former Pontiac (I believe) exec who said it was possible for him to go to work for the entire week and never make eye contact with, much less talk with, anyone who actually assembled the cars at the plant he worked at. He would go months without physically being in any assembly area unless there was a major problem that needed his attention. Compare this to companies like Kawasaki who require everyone, regardless of the position they are hired for, to work on the assembly line. (60 days I think) This is so they have an understanding that when they ask for a change, or if presented with a problem, they know what they are asking the workers to do. Even after this period it isn't uncommon for higher executives to walk a piece of equipment through the process to see what is being done and how they're doing it.

[@LittleCar]

This is the way to go. I've done back breaking, dead end jobs when I was younger, so when I interact with people doing them I try to make sure I make their job easier, not harder (e.g. I refrain from being rude to a telemarketing person - this may be the only job they can get).

[@wyndhammh6170]

@@LittleCarI agree entirely. Having been an employer for 30 years (about 50 employees in the business) it seemed so obvious. Treat people with respect, try to give them the resources to do the job properly, try to lead by example, offer opportunity to those who want to progress, etc etc. It works, and is rewarding. Staff turnover low, business successful . . . . Not that we avoided any problems of course, but we could overcome them better together. Much more difficult to achieve in large organisations … though some of the Far Eastern industries seem pretty good at it. Entrenched cultural differences may be a lot of the explanation.

[@johnburns4017]

I worked with an American who had a job on an auto line (he was to be there 3 year then off). He mentioned the different cafeterias creating a class barrier. He went in them once then took his own lunch. He was there for money, no other reason, so never went along with the culture he did not like. I can see why office workers and men who get dirty are segregated.

[@landcrab75]

One of your best videos ever - spoken from the heart. In 1985 I went all the way to Basingstoke to test drive an Ambassador with a view to buying one but it was terrible. Bought a 5 cylinder Passat instead which was light years ahead. Loved it so much I even spent my wedding night in one at Gatwick airport My own Maxi was pitched up against an Ambassador in 2014 in the classic car press but had to drive the Ambassador for the photo shoot - that too was awful. When I was 17 I loved BL’s innovative engineering talent and frequently wound up my dad in the early seventies by asking “Great British management - what would we do without it? A great deal more”. He dismissed my arguments saying I had no idea how difficult and how much power the unions had and I was just a naive 17 year old Unfortunately what I said turned out to be absolutely true. Spencer Hall Bristol

[@johnburns4017]

The perceptions of a free thing young mind against a media conditioned mind. 🙂

[@Stars_Falling_93]

Loved to see you ellaborate your nuanced take on the problems of BL. It also shone through in the main video. As Clarkson once said about this: it was all of them.

[@LittleCar]

Yeah - it might make a full video if I do some more research about it.

[@richardmclaughlin5298]

Please make a video on BL. Your view on it will be interesting

[@gotham61]

Clarkson's video piece "Who Killed the British Car Industry" is excellent.

[@shyguy2189]

@@LittleCar I've been a fan of your videos since you started on here but can't make out wear you are from are you from the UK or US you sound British 🤔 ps I love your video thank 👍🙂

[@LittleCar]

@@shyguy2189 I'm from the UK, but live in the US.

[@lidiawilliams4837]

I have a Princess my utter dream car, it took so long to find her! I love hearing all the back ground about the company and how she came about! Mine was assembled in Nelson New Zealand :) we drove it there for her 40 th birthday!

[@GSimpsonOAM]

I worked in the New Zealand meat industry in the 80s. The same dysfunctional attitude of the unions and bloated management resulted in the industry collapsing at the end of the 80's Voluntary union membership in the early 90's resulted in workers telling the unions to take a hike. We hired employment lawyers on a retainer who actually acted in our interest. I rejoined the union around 2000 as their attitude had dramatically improved. The biggest problem of the industrial unrest of the 70's and 80's is that it became normalised. It wasn't cured until the collapse of the industries affected.

[@dufus7396]

I worked in Wakatu..it was crazy wild cat walk outs..

[@-----REDACTED-----]

Unions are an incredibly important and sadly necessary thing - if they do their job. Good to hear NZ unions having gotten their shit together! I think the Germans kind of did the right thing by requiring that union representatives must be part of the supervisory board and the workers get to elect certain fractions (depending on size, iirc) of the board. Makes it more of a team effort between management and employees rather than the classic antagonistic up vs. down relationship.

[@rolandbogush2594]

Thank you - I really liked your discussion here. As you say, strike action by the unions was just the publicly visible manifestation of deeper management problems and poor industrial relations. I suspect that it was in part a generational thing; most of the senior managers aged in their 50s would have served in the armed forces during and just after WW2. They were used to a 'command and control' organisation where the troops did what they were told without question, however bad the decisions or however difficult the working conditions. The younger people working on the factory floor didn't have that experience and had different expectations of their working lives. Obviously, there are a number of sweeping generalisations in that view. I imagine vast tomes have been written on the subject in the intervening years. Clarkson's video, as others have mentioned, highlighted a number of the issues.

[@richardjmacdonald]

I think the lack of harmony between management and workers I think is a run on of the entrenched class system. I grew up in England in a working class family, so I was always led to believe management were scum...:.....and that we are in one group, they are in another.... and the chasm cannot be closed. As I’ve got older I realize and agree with you that it is more nuanced. I think we have reached the same conclusion but started on different sides of the same coin.

[@LittleCar]

When we're young everything is black & white. Age brings the experience that many issues are rarely like this.

[@herseem]

@@LittleCar When you've heard both sides of the story you realise there are more than two sides

[@wyndhammh6170]

Tragically those attitudes broke British industry in the 70’s & 80’s. Strikes, attempts to bring down elected governments ( Heath & Thatcher) , abysmal workmanship, sabotage on production lines. Coupled with poor management, lack of investment , often poor education. Generalisations I know,and doubtless honourable exceptions. But that generation, children in the war, elderly now, has little to be proud of. Much has changed since, and I now can own two excellent British-assembled cars. Unfortunately the class divides haven’t resolved - as our politicians demonstrate daily with the likes of Rayner, Rees-Mogg etc etc .

[@10beerman]

@@wyndhammh6170 ... and it's getting worse, only now because of Thatch and her cronies, everybody is either so far in debt or wants to be (over inflated house prices) that nobody can afford to have any unpaid time off work.

[@Mariazellerbahn]

I remember our three gaffers having a Wolseley version each back in 1975 (Maroon / White / Dark Green). I thought the twin round lights on the Morris and Wolseley versions looked a lot better than the trapezoidal lights they eventually went with.

[@nadeemchaudhry6585]

Love the openness and honesty in these videos. Most importantly, good to see you are keeping up your contractual obligations by mentioning the Unions. I think you could actually do a whole management vs union's video and how it changes the UK car industry for ever.

[@LittleCar]

Gotta mention the unions!

[@nickwebb9290]

Excellent, I do like your Optional Extra posts, thanks 😁 Just to add, in my 55 years of driving/car ownership the worst car I’ve ever had was a Morris Marina Coupe 1.3. Against that, one of the best was an H reg ‘69 Mini Cooper 998 👍

[@johnmoruzzi7236]

With these Optional Extras you are spoiling us....

[@LittleCar]

😂

[@grootzijl]

I think you've created a very nice and unique format for your videos with the main video on the main channel and then these unscripted or lightly scripted optional extra videos with your personal takes and opinions on your second channel. I've been here since just before the restart and I very much enjoy following along, hopefully for years to come. Thanks!

[@LittleCar]

Thanks Miegel. I'm enjoying the unscripted bits. We'll see if it continues to work.

[@ramblingrob4693]

@@LittleCar Yeh it will if you keep to cars an not dig into other territory like Unions

[@LittleCar]

@@ramblingrob4693 You may be disappointed. I like talking about what comes to mind. And these videos are more "opinion", so you're going to get that!

[@georgeosborn3223]

I'm reminded of "Are You Being Served" with the workers' cafeteria and the executive dining room.

[@mafiousbj]

Having those Ferrero on the back actually made me chuckle! Classic British humour!

[@Henry_Jones]

Fiber optic lines were used in all the spaceship models in star wars to give the appearence of windows from outside the spaceships.

[@garrylawless3550]

Loved both videos, and I too remember the power cuts, and shortages, and the news - strike after strike. My Grandad bought an Ambassador in 1982, I loved it - we didn't own a car, so any car was great!😆

[@richardcrossley5581]

I'd love to see a video on the industrial relations, or rather lack of, of the 1970s. I wasn't just British Leyland, but Rootes/Chrysler also had a pretty torrid time. I too remember many strikes from the 1970s, which resulted in us having huge fires in our front garden (erm?) where the street's rubbish was burned. We also had a coal fire, kerosene lamps and stoves. Segregation between management and employees is always bad and resentment brews.

[@robinforrest7680]

After having a very early Wolesley 18/22 to try (registration A1!) to try out, my dad had two as his company cars as head of purchasing with Dunlop. LVP 444P and EOM 692V. Both were 2200HLS automatics. EOM 692V had Denovo tyres. We always knew them as Austin Princesses.

[@gerardrahman7687]

Brilliant video - really enjoyable - and touches on some big questions - would absolutely love to hear you talk about the why BL/Rover Group came to an end.

[@catjudo1]

A video on the union/management struggles at British Leland and across the UK in general would be most welcome. I don't know much about the issues and how/if they led to the Thatcher years (the first PM I remember) and would enjoy a video in your simple and clear style that tells me more. Also, I love the term "Landcrab" as a name. To me it has two meanings: A dull, ubiquitous vehicle that one sees everywhere or a low-slung desert vehicle that skitters fast and has claws to bite. I'm probably wrong on the second one, but I'm picturing a sand rail kind of like an Ariel Nomad. Great video as always, sir!

[@LittleCar]

There's not much research in these Optional Extra videos - it mostly comes from the research from the main video and my experience. But yeah, a video on the 70s and BL might be good. Needs to be different to the Clarkson one though (which I seem to remember was quite good).

[@johnburns4017]

@@LittleCar Clarkson blamed everyone.

[@DiscoFang]

@@johnburns4017 Maybe, like has been alluded to in this video, he was correct. Everyone WAS to blame.

[@DiscoFang]

"Crabbing" is never a good trait in a vehicle - it's used to describe a twisted chassis or bent axles where the The rear wheels don't follow the same line as the fronts.

[@catjudo1]

@@DiscoFang LOL, I know what it is and I didn't even think about it! Yikes!

[@TheRetroShed]

I grew up in Kings Norton, only a few miles from Longbridge and clearly remember seeing all the protests and crowds with loud hailers gathering in Cofton Park. I never understood what it was all about. We had many Leland cars in the 70s and they were all pretty dreadful! Great video as always. Stay safe mate.

[@MATTY110981]

Thames TV has a brilliant archive You Tube channel. The clips from Drive-in I find fascinating because they have inadvertently chronicled the decline of BL and the rise foreign car imports to Britain from Europe and Japan.

[@TheRetroShed]

@@MATTY110981 it’s funny actually. My dad had 3 or 4 BL company cars - Allegros, Marina, Princess. All dismally built cars and then he chose a Mk1 Cavalier. That was a complete departure from the badly built BL cars. Much nicer quality.

[@KarlHamilton]

Unions are essential. Great to hear you sticking up for them as opposed to lazily bashing them like most motoring journalists do. Without unions we'd all be working 7 day weeks for pittance with no holiday pay or sick pay, no workers rights. Nothing. Its pretty grim that people don't realise that these days. Solidarity!

[@LittleCar]

It's a double edged sword. I personally think they were constraining industry by the 80s, but today I certainly feel that we could do with more collective bargaining to redress the balance of zero hours contracts and the like. In the US it seems you need two jobs just to have a roof over your head, never mind health insurance!

[@MaxPowweer1]

Really enjoying the Optional Extra series, great to hear personal thoughts on these stories

[@seanhershey3390]

looking forward to the Hyundai episode.

[@LittleCar]

I'm eyeing that one up. Maybe about the Pony, as Hyundai working on their own cars at the start is the interesting bit to me.

[@seanhershey3390]

@@LittleCar just that little video piqued my interest..thank you for your work & to better let me understand the British car industry..& the history of some of my faves..( US based Volvo/ Toyota truck owner)....& maybe a Boxster soon...( there’s one for ya)...or the Cayenne..( the suv that saved Porsche...Cheers!

[@judethaddaeus9742]

Great additions! My theory about why people called it the Austin Princess after the late ‘75 rebrand is that the most common versions of the Princess had the same front end as the Austin version of the 18-22 Series. The Austin’s front end was the only version of the 3 that survived the rebrand. While the quad round headlight versions were still available after the rebrand, they used the Austin’s hood and didn’t have the Morris or Wolseley grilles between them. Also, “Austin Princess” had been in use until 1957 on the top-line model in the Austin range, as well. So folks probably just ported over the Austin association with the Princess name for the new model in late 1975.

[@LittleCar]

Maybe so. Glad it's not just me!

[@christophresmerowski1824]

Coming in from Germany for some business in London in the early 80's my British friends had a Princess "sitting around" and where happy to let me use it for my time in London. I was impressed. I was impressed with the nimbleness of this vehicle and the accuracy of the automatic transmission and enjoyed it in and around London for about two month. The car seemed light and accellaration seemed always sufficient. I have fondness for this Princess in my heart & memory. Thanks for the video.

[@toms5996]

British Layland is such a Landmark. I had a Morris Marina way back when. Edit: I had my Marina in the late 80's here in Finland.

[@tetchuma]

More ‘Optional Extras’, Please!!! I love hearing the inside scoop!!

[@LittleCar]

If I have useful stuff to talk about I'll be sure to do more!

[@uselessDM]

The Jeremy Clarkson Car Years video about why British Leyland failed is pretty good in my opinion and he interviews people that were directly involved in it all and it gives a lot of insight about all the things that went wrong inside the company. You can find the video on KZbin.

[@BennysBenz]

Industrial action was a big part and it didn't help the dealership network but the cars were not engineered properly.

[@geraldmonger1921]

Not just BMC but also Ford. In the early 80's I was paid to photograph a conveyor belt that connected a giant press for door panels to the rest of the production line. The day before I arrived with the client the papers were full of the news that workers were striking on the new Escort production line. When we arrived we found out that the width of our conveyor was to small to safely collect the panels from the press and management were asking the workers to manually push the doors onto the conveyor and hold them until they reached the correct sized belt on the rest of the system. This was against work and safety rules and was dam right dangerous and so the workers refused, especially as it was the management's fault as they had supplied the wrong information to my client. Needless to say the news papers didn't see it that way and put all the blame on the unions. The car was the Erica/Escort.

[@johnburns4017]

By the time the Ambassador came around in the 1980s the car was about right (except for that appalling looking front grill - the round headlights were far better). It was a very advanced looking car when introduced in 1975. I drove a new Ambassador once (rented). It was a superb fast motorway/A road car. Very roomy inside. The hatch meant it was very practical. I never lived with one day to day. All they had to do was get the quality right and that awful front end removed. But the marque was tarnished by the time they got many things right. You cannot blame unions for the front end design, using antiquated B Series engines and the design of the later engines that did not have any space for cooling water between cylinder linings causing a hot spot. Triumph and SAAB (using Triumph engines) used a g'box under the engine, but not using the same oil. BMC (later BL) could not figure this out, with engines and g'boxes burning out fast. All poor management.

[@laszlokaestner5766]

The problem with the Unions was that they assumed (wrongly) that the government would always bail out the companies therefore the Union could ask for pretty much whatever it wanted and went on strike when it didn't get its way. It was only later when various industries had effectively ceased to exist that people realised the folly the Unions were pulling and things returned to an even keel.

[@panpan7908]

I think the unions battles in the 1970s were, as you say, mostly cultural - a move towards the end of such a pronounced class system. I can remember the shocked expression running around in the mid 70s of 'My chauffeur has a Rolex Oyster - I can't believe it', which catches it well. The end of the period in which the lower classes should know their place and keep in it - and the people who said this really meaning it.

[@phillipm1039]

Still the best car history channel so well researched and professionally presented.

[@LittleCar]

Thanks Phillip!

[@compu85]

Mercedes used fiber optics for the dashboard lighting in the W126 too. One bulb lights up the vent controls and buttons in the center console. They moved away from that for the W124 - LEDs were available! So on a late W126 there's a mix and match were some buttons still use the fiber optic line (defroster, rear dome lamp) and some have built in illumination (air recirculate, heated seats). I have a video on my channel where I show replacing that bulb.

[@jamesengland7461]

Yes, make a union video!

[@johnclayden1670]

A balanced take on things. My late father-in-law was a branch secretary (and one-time president) of ASLEF and always took the view of BR that "Management must manage". Basic really.

[@CMZPICTURES]

We had a princess when I was a kid. We must have got lucky and got one of the good ones because it wasn't particularly bad for reliability or rust, that I remember. A camel at longleat kicked the door in and some monkeys ripped the vinyl roof off but the car itself soldiered on for many years.

[@Mariazellerbahn]

In the book "British Leyland - The Truth About The Cars", it mentions that the customer did the testing and then they would act on the complaints.

[@jcobbett1958]

You pricked a memory for me about the strikes of the 1970's. I well remember the power being turned off at assigned times throughout the day for certain areas of the city I lived in. They would last between 3 and 5 hours, all because of power workers/miners industrial action. The bread and other foodstuff shortages concerned everyone, but for us it was a bumper time. My father was an environmental health officer. It was his job during this period to visit all the shops with perishable goods that would defrost or stop being chilled and take them for disposal at the local tip. Shopkeepers were canny buggers and took the opportunity to reliquish old stock in the name of being 'ruined' because of the power cuts and disposing of old or slow moving stock. They could legitimately write these off as a tax loss. Needless to say, if our freezer was working it would be filled with arctic roll and other delicasies we wouldn't normally buy. We also had some obscure stuff such as powdered asparagus soup? In saying that, it was possibly the best asparagus soup I ever had.

[@LittleCar]

Nice! At least the job had some perks.

[@jourwalis-8875]

The Citroen DS also used fibre optics from 1970 year model. It was a fibre cable from the instrument light bulb terminating in and illuminating the ignition key lock

[@hoygys]

In Denmark it was called the Austin Princess (1800 HL) which I used to hoon around in, when I first got my drivers license. The engine was adeqaute for it's time, the rest of the car, not so. But to this date, I still love the looks of it.

[@boronsniify]

I worked as a graduate trainee for Austin Rover in 1986 - the management hadn’t improved, renaming on my contract to be sponsored to the RCA to punish another student who had not returned to the company after being sponsored to Art Center. Punishment for someone else’s problem didn’t sit right, so I left the UK motor industry for good. With many successful GM and Porsche products on the road I have never regretted that decision….

[@rodoherty1]

Really enjoying these off-the-cuff follow-ups to your main videos. It's very interesting to get additional context and it feels like a conversation. You're a great communicator!

[@vernonmatthews181]

I remember out in Australia 🇦🇺 they had a Morris Marina that had a larger engine of 2600cc, perhaps they were onto something. This was a 6 cylinder engine from the smaller capacity P76 Leyland car also from Australia 🇦🇺. I'm based in New Zealand 🇳🇿, incidentally I was online last night with SRUK and a subscriber looking for a sump plug 🔌 for a 74 Marina. This made me think of Horopito motors in NZ's "North Island" and I made the distinction between the 4 cylinder ( 🇬🇧 UK & NZ ) & 6 cylinder ( Australia 🇦🇺 ). To know both watch Hubnut whom did a tour in both Australia ( 4 & 6 cylinder Marina's ) and New Zealand 🇳🇿 ( Horopito Motors ). The abbreviation SRUK is of course Salvage Rebuilds UK 🇬🇧 ❤

[@CaesarTjalbo]

I'm from The Netherlands and there was a green Princess in our neighborhood, late '70s/early '80s. I wasn't knowledgeable about cars then (or now) but I knew the car as an Austin Princess, even though it only said Princess on the car.

[@davepax982]

There was a 2.6 litre version of the E6 engine we had here in the P76 that could also have been used. It was pretty torquey and twin carbs could have been bolted up for that bit extra. That would have made the Princess a nice tourer.

[@johnmoruzzi7236]

Correct, the 2200 6 was based on the 1500 4, and the 2600 based on the 1750. It seems crazy to expect a modern 6 to run will with just a single carb... all the Triumph and Rover 6s had twin carbs. The 2 litre O series engine was enough for the base model Rover 800 of the late 1980s.

[@chrisbates8064]

You raise the question of the 2.3 and 2.6 litre six cylinder engines from the SD1. What many don't realise is that the E Series was used in 2.6 litre firm in Oz, though in RWD applications.

[@sporkfindus4777]

Please do the videos about the unions and downfall of BL

[@philiprodney7884]

I like the relaxed style of your optional extras. Interesting comparison with the SAAB 900. I think the difference was that unlike the Princess, it was thought of as a quality car. No matter how attractive the Princess was in its day (and it was), it felt cheap and nasty as soon as you got into it.

[@theobservingpoutine1721]

Neat job! It was badged a Princess in Switzerland; saw the car in winter-school holiday early 1983.

[@thomasfrancis5747]

Totally agree with your view on unions - they filled a void when management failed to liaise successfully with its workforce. Might be worth including a photo of the prototype Vanden Plas Princess which was to sit above the Wolseley - ironic given the model name was previously associated with VDP. Also a mention of the driveshaft problems/recall on early Princesses.

[@calinescuandrei9662]

Besides your other vids, I love these extra ones. I hope you keep them up! Cheers

[@LittleCar]

So long as I've got something extra to say!

[@Involvod]

Really enjoyed this natural setting, great vid!

[@chrispenn715]

Haha - The Ambassador is spoiling you - with Ferrero Roche! :-)

[@MATTY110981]

I always get the impression that BL was doomed from day one. BL’s product line up seemed confusing, had too many vehicles competing against each other for the same market and built on different platforms and engines.

[@rogerevans2853]

I might have missed it but I don't recall you ever explaining about the ADO designations. ADO stood for Austin Drawing Office.

[@LittleCar]

Yeah, I missed that. My brain is going faster than it should.

[@arthurbretas2003]

I like these extra videos

[@paulsutton5896]

Yes. The "industrial relations" problem at British Leyland required two participants to make things as bad as they were in the 1980s. But the unions had a long-term strategy in the 1960s, which was extremely shrewd. Management was offered industrial peace (always rather short-term) in exchange for accepting practices which surrendered more and more power to the unions. This was stupid, but it was seen as tolerable because industrial relations was about to become an industry in its own right - with university professors and so on. It was as if the perpetual industrial strife was a kind of sociological phenomenon which needed experts to study it. In fact, it just needed management to stand up to the unions, as we saw later when Mrs Thatcher rebuffed similar ambitions in the miners' unions leader, and management under Michael Edwardes stood strong in the car industry. This had been going on since the 1950s, when shipbuilding was the battlefield. We should remember just what trade union aims were. The unions had a wider platform than the minutiae of pay deals and terms of employment. The unions wanted to establish a communist Britain, and if destroying capitalist Britain industry by industry was a step on that road, then so be it. Britain's shipbuilding industry WAS destroyed, and the socialists had moved on to target the motor industry. Have no doubt about it, the long drawn out demise of the British car industry was all part of establishing a Soviet-like economy in this country. The socialists were winning.

[@theneedleandjetmotorcycles2008]

Thanks for the extra vid mate, appreciate your work

[@LittleCar]

No problem 👍

[@emilymaitlislaptop]

Fantastic. Really liking the more informal delivery in these Extras.

[@GBOAF216]

I had a 1978 1800 HL as my 2nd car at the age of 19, it was a great car that I had for 4/5 years... a great big bench seat in the rear was good fun with the girlfriends at that time...... part exchanged it for my first ever sports car, a Porsche 924...... which was a real dog!

[@jeffking4176]

As an American, and Car guy, I’d like to see a video on British Leland. 📻🙂

[@Mariazellerbahn]

Save the packaging on the Ferarri Rocher, then wrap brussel sprouts for Hallowe'en.

[@kd23se4]

James May in the old Top Gear also called it Princess :)

[@roverboi100]

AWESOME I HAD AN AMBASSDAOR AS MY FIRST CAR IN 1989 I LOVED IT A219EMY REG 15.12.1983 I SOLD IT FOR A MAESTRO IN MAY 1991 AT A ROVER DEALER GOT £600 PX WISH ID OF KEPT IT IT WAS A TWIN CARB IN LOVELY OPORTO RED METALIC WAS A LOVELY CAR XX THANKYOU FOR COVERING THESE MODELS

[@michaelwebber4033]

I remember the Austin Princess, I assume it was called that here in New Zealand because we had an Austin factory here that would have been assembling them from knock down kits sent from England

[@Bucketroo]

When I grew up in France, my family had a succession of Austin Minis. Then one day, they came home with an "Austin Princesse", and it didn't look like that. It looked more like an Austin 1300. I don't remember much about it, but it had folding tray tables built in the back of the front seats for the rear passengers to use, like on an airliner. Young me thought that was pretty neat.

[@davepoul8483]

70's MADNESS....

[@benglover2007]

The fact there is dash trim damage in the brochure pics, but they still got published, is so BL! 😂

[@autisticlife]

I rememebr reading and article by Ronald "Steady" Barker on the updated princess saying what a well sorted car it was and it was a shame it took this long to get it right. He made reference to teh Land Crab saying how he thought it was under developed and on a test he thought the suspension was so bouncy that he went the same distance vertically as he did horizontally.

[@TheJonathanNewton]

I used to have a Princess in the late 80s/early 90s. Quality problems? Check. The boot lid was bulging, causing large gaps. The Hydragas system was leaking causing the car to list. Parts were low-quality and would just fail. Electric problems? Check. At one stage the engine couldn’t be turned off. A faulty hazard warning light switch turned out to be the cause - I still can’t figure that one out. But. Design and management problems? Check. * The engine was undersized, underpowered, and over-age. Open crankcase ventilation, poor fuel economy, plenty of room in the engine bay for more. And the oil filter shot out like a torpedo underneath the car just waiting to be punctured by something protruding enough from the ground. * No fifth gear, even when production began two years into the oil crisis? Come on. What were they thinking? * No hatchback! Honestly, how can you decide not to fit a hatchback to a hatchback-looking car? Who in their right mind would decide to buy a Princess because it had no hatchback? If that’s what they wanted, they’d have bought a three-box. And they did. In short, the futuristic design was making promises the car’s innards couldn’t keep. And that could easily have been avoided by a management appointed on merit rather than pedigree and performance in classical languages at Oxbridge. BL comes across as a Tower of Babel where people at different levels clearly were incapable of communicating with one another. Or with the outside world. It could have been a great car. It’s such a shame that it wasn’t.

[@colrhodes377]

I had a 2200HLS ( used ) it was without doubt the most comfortable car I ever owned. Not fast, cool of trendy but a car I would happily have again

[@0898007]

And it wasn't an O-series

[@briankay4713]

Such a sad story ....grasping defeat from the jaws of victory comes to mind .... This car was so right .... but crippled by the problems at BL.

[@john1703]

The E series engine was developed for the Maxi as a 4 cylinder. It later appeared in the Allegro. It was extended to 6 cylinders (2200) and used in the Land Crab and Princess. Both installations were transverse, with the gearbox in the sump, like the A and B series before it, which also limited the number of gear ratios to 4. The first end-on gearbox appeared with the O series engine in the Princess, which allowed the lower bonnet line of the Ambassador, but not the Allegro. The Triumph 6 cylinder engines (2300/2600) would not fit transversely in an Ambassador, with an end-on gearbox.

[@chriswarren2599]

I am pretty certain the Princess and Ambassador only had gearbox in sump arrangements. The O series had end on gearboxes in the Maestro and Montego.

[@paulqueripel3493]

The maxi had a 5 speed box.

[@simonheap4294]

Yes all Princess/Ambos had the underslung gearbox in the sump layout carried over from the landcrab because it was cheaper. Supposedly the Maxi E series 5 speeder wouldn't have been capable of handling the extra strain of the heavier car especially with the E6 2200 engine and I guess no extra money in the kitty to design a stronger box?

[@kbtred51]

ADO Austin Design Office is actually the Amalgamated Drawing Office: the "amalgamation" referring back to the merger of Austin and Morris to form BMC.

[@fretlessfender]

I really liked this! As a contrast to the main video I mean this is a bit more relaxed and informal... Keep this going! It is a succes path I'm sure!

[@LittleCar]

We'll see!

[@dufus7396]

I was dissapointed it never took off..thought it looked fantastic

[@albertseabra9226]

An excellent vídeo. With a few more details and another lay-out, it would become class material for any first-rate Business School . A Famous Harvard BUSINESS School Professor used to say: "IF A BUS FALLS OFF A CLIFF,, DON'T BLAIM THE PASSENGERS". By comparing VW Labour Relations with BL's environment, you touched the Million Dollars Answer. A Féw exception aside, BL made lousy cars. And MANAGEMENT was unable to assuage their Workers" grievances. The chaps who went to South Korea didn't land in a Magic Country. Strikes there could bcome rather violent -- however, disputes were quickly resolved. In sum, BL had some First-Rate Managers -- unfortunately, their voices were ignored at the Top Floors . By the way the same Hara-Kiri took place at the British Motorcycle Industry, driven into the Cold Waters of the Ocean by Japonese and Italian products And to a very large extent, across the Atlantic Detroit was "Getting High Marks" driving the American Car Industry Into the Ground. With your smarts and sense of humour , here you have material for a nice bunch of great videos. Warm Regards and 1.000 Thanks, A.

[@derekogilvie6942]

love this - the relaxed vibe - you have brightened my morning!

[@craig5127]

Sorry to be a nit picker, the 2.2 6 cylinder was an E-Series, derived engine from a 1.5 Morris - By adding two extra cylinders, giving it the 2.2 displacement. Applied to the Austin Tasman and Kimberley. This was added to the different marques of the Landcrab. The 1.8 1800 was a B-Series engine. Applied to many different cars even outside of BL, even so far as to being applied into two different Mercedes-Benz models of the 1970’s. The O-Series 1.7 and 2.0 were introduced in 1978 and produced until 1993, being used in many variants of subsequent BL/AR vehicles. Though the 2.2 straight 6 E-Series remained in use until the production of the Princess ended in 1981 in the UK. The 1.8 B-Series in the ADO71 was scrapped in terms of application in 1978 to make way for the newly introduced O-Series 1.7 and 2.0, being used in the ADO71’s replacement (the Ambassador) in both displacements until the end of Ambassador’s production in 1984.

[@NLBassist]

I'm a big fan of your vids and I like this more spontaneous extra vids too!

[@LittleCar]

Glad you like them!

[@ronmccullock1407]

ADO Austin Design Office Harris Mann did the design for the Allegro, TR7 and Princess. Bad management, lack of investment and old fashion factories.

[@npdarcy123]

Do you remember that the 1800/2200 was the first British car to have trapezoidal headlights, which were installed on the cheaper models because of course, 'twin headlights are better'? As a result, due to the novelty, the expensive models sold much worse than expected. That's my recollection anyway.

[@timwebster8122]

How about doing the Perkins Diesel engine story? A British manufacturing success stories

[@anderscederholm1303]

Saab 900 never had Triumphs 1.7 liter engine, only the Saab 99 had that, intill 1971. The 900 came first 1978 and had Saabs 2.0 liter engine.

[@stevehead365]

The fibre optic indicators can actually tell you if your road lights are working and there is little to go wrong. I would say they were an advance. However, when both dip beam bulbs in my C4 blew at the same time at night, it was rather obvious. Poor old sidelights, nobody uses them anymore.

[@MrAbowker]

I think a lot of the name thing comes comes from the Logbook (V5). On the whole the section with make would be filled in by the dealer on registration and this would appear on the tax disc until 2014 when they stopped being used. The most common was Austin followed by Austin Morris followed by Morris and for a short time BL Cars. Anyone looking at the tax disc would therefore more often than not see the name Austin ( or Austin Morris) next to the Make section on the windscreen.

[@warmstrong5612]

Management acted like it was still the Victorian era where workers were there to be exploited, and if you do like it then shove off. We'll replace you with someone else. It was the 1970's, not the 1870's.

[@johnwatters840]

I really did enjoy the Optional Extra, thank-you! With regards to the IR situation in the 1970's this is a much more complex topic with numerous socio-political factors at play. Perhaps in the case of BL, this common context was exacerbated by constraints on governance, capital, capacity, and the distributed network of manufacturing plants. The very formation of BL also seems to have been imposed on its constituent parts with very limited appetite for rational post-merger integration. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but a dreadful shame that the industry didn't survive...

[@stumpeth]

The Triumph engines in the SD1 were rear wheel drive so would have needed a new gearbox solution engineering to get them to fit the Ambassador or Princess

[@eggbirdtherooster]

Love this sort of one take videos my man. Keep them coming.. 🙂

[@LittleCar]

And I only messed up a couple of times in this video (and hid it with photos). I'm getting better!

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

Poor reporting in the 1970s did not help.The hole in the wall strike was 20ft square and workers were building cars in snow .

[@gotham61]

Mercedes used fibre optics to illuminate several things with a single bulb starting with the W114/115 in 1968.

[@LittleCar]

Nice - I didn't know that.

[@Mike_Connor]

IMHO the front end looks very similar to the Peugeot 504 and even the previous Austin 1800 looks a lot like the landcrab