Brodie Has a Controversial Take on Disc Golf Baskets | Disc Golf Debate Night

Trevor is joined by Brodie, Jake, Hunter, and Brad for this week's Debate Night
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[@jasondunnewold4946]

Commenting every week until Uli is on the show

[@chrisproffitt6198]

I dont think Uli has any interest or deep takes. Just saying

[@iheartdiscgolf]

@@chrisproffitt6198 you don't need deep takes. Having a touring pro with as much experience as Uli would be cool to hear his takes. Uli just doesn't want the drama 🤣

[@rogernock7865]

@@chrisproffitt6198yea cause this show provides only the deepest of insight reserved for the most sophisticated analysist minds. /s

[@TheBotchJob]

​@@iheartdiscgolf To be fair I don't think Uli has the time at the moment... Considering all of his other obligations with a kid on the way while entering the European swing of the season. I think it's more about allocation of time and resources than him not "wanting any drama".

[@hunterventers6531]

Liking this and commenting on this until Uli is on the show !

[@tdkempton]

I like watching Trevor decide which of his bosses he wants to make happier this week.

[@BrucekyPlush]

Haha for real though

[@leastselfawarepotassium]

The housing market analogy from Brodie was electric.

[@kingchuckfinley]

lol facts. I’m no Brodie fanboy, but the guy does drop a gem from time to time and I’m here for it.

[@totalleftydiscgolf]

I’m a lefty and one of my biggest pet peeves is when people say to me on the course “cheating lefty, lucky lefty, we have a cheater on the box”

[@cincystreaming]

As a lefty, I'm a little biased, but an overwhelming amount of courses are designed with the right-handed disc golfer in mind, and making them "harder" usually involves including "lefty holes." But you should ask Emerson Keith or AJ Risley, who are both left-handed who learned how to play Disc Golf right-handed because of the bias. Also, ask Zach Arlinghaus, who has a right-handed forehand and now has a right-handed backhand, despite being one of the best Lefties in the world.

[@JaredTG.]

We definitely have to learn more complex shots as lefties to be able to score really well. I've found that a large portion of the time when a hole isn't "lefty friendly" if I throw a laser straight shot or a shot that finishes slightly left I can at least get a putt at most baskets. However when I have to throw that touchey shot and then watch everyone else throw a dummy 250ft hyzer and park it yhe feeling isn't great. I don't expect the sport to change for my sake whatsoever, it can get a little frustrating at times though when the best I can get on a hole is a 40ft putt. I'll survive though

[@leastselfawarepotassium]

The “lefty holes” are always 250ft RHFH hyzers and then it’ll be followed by a hole that forces a 400ft+ LHFH. Not expecting anyone to design courses for the minority but you have to laugh about it at times.

[@mahazroko6753]

Are you sure Emerson is a lefty?

[@d3icid4l65]

Brad know this is a debate 🙄 😒 😴

[@bobbyshizz2138]

Calvin is money on Prodigy baskets-- 3 wins at Jonesboro. He putts low, barely over the cage. Never spits out. Honestly, that low putt generally doesn't spit out on any basket.

[@thumberlife]

Brodie said 3 episodes since he interrupted another panelist, but if we count his dogs barking during my answer last week and 2 weeks before that, it's been 0 weeks. I think he's training them to attack when hearing my voice...🤔

[@thomasbrovont4114]

lol. Now that's a good conspiracy theory!! I'm hear for it.

[@mgd76yt]

Did players like the spiral cage in New Zealand? They look cool...

[@barrypeirson3710]

You talking about the RPM baskets? I think the problem with them is they are expensive to have shipped here. RPM should do a satellite manufacturing plant/site in the US. They would make $$$

[@mgd76yt]

@barrypeirson3710 if players got behind them, they would make money. but if the players didn't like them, it's not going to happen...

[@pinhighdiscdyes]

Mark Horn PDGA #67 is the guy Hunter was referring to that they spoke with at Oak Grove, I remember seeing them having a long talk with him.

[@BradMatejek]

Rpm Helix

[@morticianjohn]

They look really good IMO

[@philmorrison1856]

Really good chat 👍🏼 I learned a lot...

[@marvelfandom2000]

Let’s end this talk that Majors are “worth so much more” than anything else on tour. I don’t get why some people think that? By that logic, Andrew Preznell and Corey Ellis will go down as greater players in history than a Calvin Heimburg or Simon Lizotte, which doesn’t make sense at all. Other than champs cup, the idea of Major titles have been around longer compared to the disc golf pro tour starting in 2016. But in regard to field depth, and even payouts, can you really honestly say that winning a Dgpt + event (which is also 4 rounds) such as mvp open, ledgestone, even Waco, is not seen as just as impressive or even more so than any kind of major win? The only Major event in that consideration pool is Worlds, so let’s start saying it like it is as opposed to claiming that all majors are worth more in general.

[@joegotti2354]

Totally agree. But I do think that players would rather have a Major title than anything else, and if they could choose which, 99.99% would say worlds. I think they mentioned on Tour Life before that Calvin Heimburg would give up all the wins in his career for a worlds win.

[@jvladcliff4083]

I need a shirt that says "This guy sucks" lol 😹

[@Luffy-rf5yc]

Here's something nice about Jake. I like how he can articulate his thoughts without having to read his entire response verbatim off a prewritten script.

[@jakemurtaugh3875]

the trick is to forget to prepare!

[@matthewdavis4434]

Idk what you’re smoking, dude can’t put a solid thought together without contradicting himself

[@daftdolfing8712]

Nice episode!!!

[@paulwildes8257]

Question for debate night. We have a weekly league which had an ace pot that was up to $700 a few years ago that we paid into week after week which we looked forward to trying to win. The pro tour came through our town and a pro jumped in which was exciting. He aces hole 9, wins the pot, and skips town with everyone’s money. We were happy to meet him but afterward were upset that our ace pot was gone. This year our ace pot is up to $3500 but this time when the pro tour came through and the same pro talked about playing the league, the leadership said he wouldn’t be eligible for the ace pot without a member bag tag. The pro didn’t show and probably won’t now. Do you think it’s fair to exclude pro tour players from being able to win local money from leagues and tournaments?

[@jacobjohnson6287]

Brodies thought on learning the baskets like you would a golf green is a great approach but it’s a bandaid to the real problem. One of the most important things about a professional sport is the consistency of your tools. A golf green is not a tool, theyre the sport and that’s the key difference. and that’s why it’s okay for them to be unique and for you to have to learn them. Baskets are a tool, just like a baseball, a football, a soccer goal, etc. You HAVE to have rigid uniformity and specificity regarding your tools to generate any confidence or legitimacy for your sport. You can’t show up to Yankee stadium and use a wiffleball and metal bats and then go to Fenway and use a softball with and 2 by 4s. You lose every piece of legitimacy immediately. How the pro tour has not taken ownership over that fact is insane

[@a.j.5108]

Baseball fences are different heights

[@michaelmaniloff9297]

Pro tour said they will likely have a few standardized baskets next year.

[@PastHisPrime336]

I'd love to putt on the RPM Helix basket to see how it performs.

[@ClimbTimeRC]

What if you just keep the chains the way they are on the good baskets and just make the cage 2x as big to catch those cut throughs.

[@MrKingsley16]

Has any R&D gone into inverting the angle downwards of the hanging chains, to see how they catch the discs?

[@benjatta]

the new zealand baskets are also great to stop spitouts actually

[@dennis3224]

I strongly disagree with this whole “we should go back to how it was and make the basket to where you have to putt with finesse” discourse. I think it is very stupid to punish people for having a more confident, strong putt

[@MegaFlorest]

One of the great parts of our sport. So many styles can get the job done.

[@Grannyknockers]

The baskets are too big. All of the issues we’re running into with course design are a result of the baskets being so big that anywhere on the green is an automatic birdie. 350ft away, shank your drive by 40 feet, no problem. That’s not how golf should be played. Golf should be a game of accuracy. Distance will always reward players, but you shouldn’t have to throw your hardest to reach a par 3 cause it’s 530 ft away. Tee shots should be a balance of finesse and power and we have gone way too far down the side of power.

[@MegaFlorest]

@@Grannyknockers No, the baskets are fine. Pros miss 40 footers all the time. Some miss in the circle putts as well. We aren't ball golf. We don't need to make a ten 20 footer difficult. that would be tedious and ruin the enjoyment of a round. Playing on dual golf/disc golf courses, I've never been on a card that didn't complain about how long the group of ball golfers ahead were taking to putt and move off the hole. And as far as spectating, I'd never watch another live round if we slowed down the putting game. No one wants to watch a player tense up over a ten footer because they're trying to toss a frisbee into a mail slot. The most exciting and dramatic putts are the long circle twos, not just because they are difficult, but because we get that hang time, that you get with a ball golf putt. All we need are more greens that are guarded and difficult approaches. John Houck, the most prolific disc golf course designer in our sport wrote a very nice piece on basket size and course design back in 2019, and he breaks it down nicely.

[@miketomlinson4648]

Ambidextrous? Look up Phil Arthur, who started Prodigy. Maters World Championship. He bombs from both sides.

[@Fabric_Hater]

"Putting should be harder" "Baskets should catch putts" - Same People

[@Kvothe3]

I think I am one of "those" people. I want smaller putting targets. But when a good putt is made it has to catch 100% of the time. Not sure how to make that happen but that is my ideal scenario.

[@morticianjohn]

​@@Kvothe3champ cap type of hole that spins 360 so it faces the player.

[@baertheblader9402]

These are not contradictory statements. We want to consistently and predictably reward the players with the most accurate putts and not reward inaccurate putts. An accurate putt should go in every time, and a putt that misses should not.

[@noroom4commies086]

Righty backhand lefty forehand… that’s me :( i write right handed but do most sports left handed. I feel the lefty backhand feels easier to learn than the right forehand.

[@baertheblader9402]

The RPM baskets are innovative and from what I hear they are really consistent, but they are really expensive because they are manufactured in New Zealand.

[@sebastiangomezlondono5142]

Time outs aren’t the ideal solution to pace of play but I think they could be useful. If they are indeed used, it will contextualize players’ overall pace of play. If someone calls a time out and later on takes too long to throw or putt, their card mates might feel emboldened to call a time violation. Time outs, if used frequently enough, can make players more conscious of the pace of play in the moments when they aren’t being used.

[@jwalkdiscgolf3130]

I think with the basket situation they should do what the pickleball scene does. That is they put a bid in for what brand of ball they will use for the entire season. I think it would work for the baskets as well.

[@proflowery30]

I have RHBH/LHBH and it’s amazing for scrambling and occasionally distance control. I’m more precise around 150’ with the LHFH whereas my bh has a much bigger spread.

[@SamMattson]

You should put the idea submittal link in the description.

[@edgerunnerproduction]

You don’t need to worry about golf when the ball hits the cup and goes in…it stays in. With disc golf, we should NOT have to learn each basket. A hole is a hole so that comparison is not valid. Yes you have to learn the green and a fair comparison is learning the green around a basket. How the wind is blowing, where the spots are that block your shot. THAT is learning the green in disc golf. Not learning how a disc goes in this basket or that basket. In should be in!

[@LetsDGBogeyFree]

"The worst time to sell a house is when no one is looking to buy a house. The best time to sell a house is when everyone's trying to buy a house." Is he inferring the players are the houses? Cause it would seem the best time to "BUY" a house (grab a player) would be when no one else is looking to buy.

[@jordanfemmer3189]

RPM Helix 2!!! Make it the standard

[@barrypeirson3710]

They're expensive to have shipped RPM needs a shop here in US Would be awesome

[@shadowdancenz]

100% agree. I'm a kiwi and know they are good. Even Drew sings their praises.

[@Sumaleth]

Solution to the disc golf timing problem: players could wear a device, like a wrist watch, that has a timer built in. They tap it to start taking their 30 seconds and it makes a recognizable sound that everyone can hear. It beeps softly at 10 seconds, 20 seconds, and then each of the last 5 seconds at which point another recognizable alarm sounds that everyone can easily hear. If the player taps "off" on the watch before the alarm then it was a good shot. If the alarm rings then they are penalized one stroke. They need to throw it with enough time remaining that they know they can take "off" (maybe give the timer an extra ~4 seconds before the alarm goes to accommodate that task, so there's no complaints. If a player fails to start the timer they get +1 as well. That takes most of the ambiguity out of it. The question remaining would just be: when is a player meant to tap "on"? Could they game that bit of wiggle room? (I know they won't do this, just trying to find a clean solution to an interesting problem.)

[@kylejacobs8329]

#JusticeForJake

[@jakeharle2897]

Look up Hansen park on Udisc. Oldest park in MN (I think) and it has very unique baskets without chains. I don't like them, but they're different at least and technically work

[@marcoshuerta8661]

The back of the hook that the chain is connected to on the top of the baskets is at too much of an angle pushing the chain forward. They need to lower the angle so the chain can slide freely back and forth. This is why you can hold a disc to the pole and the chain pushes it away like a reverse magnet. The top of the chain should be able to slide at least half the distance to the pole.

[@p0p_t4rt92]

Just gonna throw this out there: Bill Nye isn't a scientist per se, but if I'm not mistaken he has a master's in mechanical engineering so think he'd actually be a great guy to have help redesign our baskets

[@hubterk]

As a lefty, here's what I will say. Brodie is spot on - I am from Dallas originally and learned to play there, and I was forehand dominant for years because the courses I learned on were very right-to-left dominant in terms of shot shape. There were only a couple of holes I played with a left-to-right shape. Statistically, the vast majority of course designers will be right handed and in my opinion, do not think about lefties because in their minds they probably think "well, the lefty can just throw a forehand." And it's true enough, but if you have ever tried to scramble, you know that a lefty forehand is not the same shot as a righty backhand. I do think there is bias to right handed players in course design, but I do not think there is bias against left handed players.

[@jdizzy92403]

I’m a lefty and I think of hole 2 at new London. Not super long but that tree being right in front you need to basically almost hit that tree with a hyzer flip with the perfect disc. While righties have more room to work with on the fairway to pan it out on a turnover. I can’t wait to see how Clemons will navigate that tee shot at worlds.

[@ryandeininger822]

Nice RPM basket shoutout from Brad. Best baskets in the world. By far.

[@johngalt1234]

Gary? Gary? Gary? Gary? GARY???

[@thumberlife]

You summoned me?

[@johngalt1234]

@@thumberlife 🥳😊😃

[@RichSlaton]

Who?

[@mattking3852]

Does the PGA have specific whole cups and pin flags that they have to use at each event?

[@HaikesXO]

1:05:26 I’m just picturing a 91 year old Ricky still on tour 😆

[@whitetees41]

I was going to say I was upset about Brodie’s loss and #JusticeforBrodie. Until Hunter cried during his speech. Then I was just impressed and no longer thought that. Great win Hunter

[@pinhighdiscdyes]

is Trevor afraid to take points away from Brodie for interrupting? control your show Travis!

[@zpdietirch]

What if there was a clock style device, kinda like chess, that every player had to have attached to their bag and once it is their turn and they see their disc, the time starts. Could be 45 seconds or whatever but it takes people calling eachother out. The device could ring or whatever and if the disc is not out of their hand, then penalty but eitherway no one wants to call anyone and that causes dudes to take 2 minutes to throw

[@jessearzola8214]

The solution for the Veteran is simple. Change the ring on the bottom chains. It was tested with success, and it was fantastic. Now, they just need to implement it into production.

[@aarontwitchell7166]

I think veterans are great but I love mvp portal

[@michaelmiller2081]

The chains on them are too light as well

[@tylermoseley7492]

Every time I start one of these I think Jake is Isaac Robinson for a second

[@jakemurtaugh3875]

get me on the course… you’ll be able to tell the difference then lol

[@DrFlemingR]

Man of the people

[@andrewklaudt8080]

The baskets at the preserve are not the old model T1. They were installed in 2023.

[@brandonmaxwell6241]

Here is my concern with having one specific basket for the pro tour each tournament is usually sponsored by a major brand and those brands are the brands of the baskets at the tournament. You could run into marketing problems where say the Dynamic Discs Open is using Innova baskets as they had the highest bid I could easily see Dynamic Discs having a problem with that as it's their tournament so why can't they use their baskets and if it's the pro tour saying oh we only will use this basket screw your baskets I could see a bunch of sponsors pulling out of tournaments. I don't know what others think about that but that's my hot take on this topic but Prodigy baskets have to go I hate them and hate the design and I think prodigy discs won't last longer than a few more seasons till they disappear from disc golf for good

[@elisabethe8055]

Has the problem with the baskets evolved or has this always been an issue? If a "new" problem, what changed and when? Was it better a few years ago or is the problem that players made the next level? I think its time to go back to the drawing board, look in to history and try to find the key to when basket design changed and what that meant to the putting game.

[@kingchuckfinley]

My home course is a lefty course at its heart, so the distances are fairly short, but can be frustratingly hard.

[@prattacaster]

I feel like the courses around me are pretty left hand friendly being a LHBH player. My bag looks like a MA4 bag with all the understable and some lighter weight discs 😂

[@rman713]

Really took an emotional turn at the end

[@mikethomas5451]

Good entertaining casual show this week. Thanks to Brodie for the more fine detail analysis of left and right handed shots on tour, I would not think it was so pronounced, and it is not except for those details which he pointed out. I do get rather tired of theRicky Legacy, Calvin when a major, Paul and Paige washed up, generic questions. It seemed to come up every two or three weeks that is not just here all over the Internet and every show and commentary in general.

[@morganpyne9646]

Never really saw MA4 offered nor requested at events in AZ over the last 10 years. Sanctioned or not, MA3 Rec division was seemingly accepted as the entry point into tournament play. Events typically reach capacity at every course without issue nor room for additional players regardless of division or competitive format. Does MA4 truly offer additional value to the sport or does it just encourage additional sand-bagging for trophies while lowering the level of competition and slowing pace of play for the rest of the field?

[@marklaube4566]

Have the pro tour card holders ever been polled to see which baskets the majority prefers? Seems like the players should have a say in the equipment being used. (I understand there’s also a sponsorship/money thing attached to said “equipment”, just saying)

[@jamesyantis9334]

The top 100 players should vote on their favorite badket

[@iheartdiscgolf]

Trevor has a bias toward Gary the GOAT. It is the eyes.

[@shadowdancenz]

RPM helix basket. Ask pro's who have been to NZ about them. They love them.

[@Chillydall02]

Kinda insane that KJ is signed yet Gavin Rathbun doesn’t even have a sponsorship with a major brand.

[@michaelmaniloff9297]

Innova bought out KJ contract and Rathbun prefers his open bag. It's gonna make him good money for next year.

[@Kris_Terry]

Im pretty sure the house does have to be publicly listed for some reason. Maybe it's before companies can buy it

[@wolfgangweber9359]

The slow play problem could be circumvented at least in the first round by lumping fast and slow players together. If the sloooow players need 5 hours to finish their round, have them play in the dark and not the players behind them.

[@philmorrison1856]

What about Eagle? If he can play well, he throws both ways...🤔

[@pdderek]

Jake, third place is way better than any of Brodie's finishes😘

[@aarontwitchell7166]

I would say tour championships could be considered a major

[@tbahall]

People can’t putt with touch in Emporia or Texas most of the time. Ya gotta jam that thing

[@derekwiley4770]

Imagine icing someone on hole 18 with a timeout 😂

[@patnope6344]

i will say as well kj has the potential to move a lot of plastic through innova

[@rman713]

To me Ricky will always be one of the goats, can’t argue otherwise

[@aarontwitchell7166]

Bill nye and Neil degrass are both absolutely boneheaded check out bill nye and Kent Hamm debate

[@jordonlacefield5241]

I bet Brodie would be great at poker. How do we get him on the WPT??

[@kingchuckfinley]

People will buy KJ innova discs. People still love him, but everyone loves innova. I throw exactly 1 innova disc (sonic) but I love innova. Everyone loved he leopard at one point or another.

[@tannerw817]

The fact that Hunter knew non-compete clauses were recently made illegal is based. Do we have a fellow Lina Khan stan in our midst?

[@aarontwitchell7166]

I like kj but wished he would focus more on disc golf instead of djing I think he’d be better

[@readingthewaters]

Brad 🥱

[@Zipoqs]

56:08 hey Trevor. I have a Lefty FH and a Righty BH... and FRICK you for calling me out. But yeah its tough out here

[@barrypeirson3710]

Lol hey if one of your arms get injured you're still good

[@kingchuckfinley]

I mean, sounds like ya got something to work on!

[@Zipoqs]

@kingchuckfinley backhand is all I really throw anymore. It works enough for me to have fun and be decent so ohwell

[@thomasbrovont4114]

For time violations there should be a hot potato the players have to pass around. When they get passed the potato an internal timer starts on the potato. When thirty seconds is up an ear piercing air horn goes off and the person is assessed a one stroke penalty.

[@BrianAndrewParker]

AJ Risley has/had forehand both sides, sadly injured atm

[@jasonegger3550]

I watch live coverage every tournament and I love Ganon’s game but when he’s on lead card it’s borderline unwatchable

[@garrettselberg8272]

Engineering! Do X amount of putts at the same distance with a full blown spin putter, full blown push putter, and an in between. Just like cycle times for manufacturing

[@MrCornaldo]

Hole 14 Brewster Ridge… lefty hole.

[@mitch-a3011]

Im left-handed, but I paly discgolf right-handed. Like i do for most sports . So i wonder how meny discgolfers are left-handed, but thorw right.

[@ForrestMillerMusic]

Sixth topic, Man of the People

[@nautilusshell940]

4 round 'majors' are overrated and have little pragmatic difference from standard tour stops. Yes they are more competitive but something as prestigious as a 'world champion' title should require 6+ rounds. USDGC is different imo, same course generally with history.

[@kingchuckfinley]

It’s even worse that Bill Nye went to Cornell and is right there in the northeast

[@user-dz6tx8tc1w]

👽♠️ Mac7 all day I agree 💯 Chicago IL approved

[@user-dz6tx8tc1w]

No 🤔💭 Im with Brodie actually. Every course has its set of baskets. Just ones that have been known to spit out . Since there is no testing we the power putters and loafing putters have both agreed on. A certain basket brings highly unpredictable putts . I say that needs to go

[@rman713]

What if the baskets had no chains?

[@CagoEman23]

Ricky is the Aaron Rodgers of disc golf.

[@ToddsDiscGolf]

Sorry Jakey boy, last comment at you might have been a tad too reactionary 😋

[@jakemurtaugh3875]

what was it?

[@ZachSoczka]

Hunter needs to host. Brad had the perfect answers imo and didn't get the credit he deserved. Best ideas of the season.

[@Falcon888]

Trevor does have a subconscious anti Brodie bias on this show. I think it’s actually more pro Hunter. It’s odd because they butt heads on Grip Locked but Trevor always seems to agree with him on here.

[@garrettselberg8272]

An 814 should not be playing MA4. PDGA needs to fix their ranges.

[@Chris-gd3tg]

Love a guy who hasn’t finished better than 42nd this year thinks the baskets are the problem.

[@EZPCNZ22]

In other words, your comment is mute because you're a npc.

[@michaelmaniloff9297]

Did you see the preserve? Those baskets got to go.

[@ForrestMillerMusic]

Topic four, Annika Steen

[@BrucekyPlush]

Luke Samson is probably the closest thing we’ve got to an ambidextrous player on tour. He’s had a rough couple of years, but nonetheless, his LHBH drives are impressive. Do I think they give him an upper hand? Not really.

[@kingchuckfinley]

I want Ricky to win worlds so bad this year. I truly think he can, and when/if he does this conversation will look silly.