NHL to Atlanta, for a THIRD time? (Pros & cons of expansion)

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#nhl #hockey #atlanta

[@brodiebrazil]

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[@sampicano]

" i mean... that person left a great detailed comment that i was able to easily respond to. you're absolutely welcome to do the same." thanks Brodie, I was hoping to add some additional information - Atlanta failed in the NHL twice - the only city to do that in the NHL since 1938 - Atlanta set the NHL record for most money lost by a team ($130 million in losses between 2005 and 2010) - Georgia (population 11,029,227), has zero NHL players in the league, Atlanta had NHL hockey for 20 years and there are no NHL players from Georgia - by comparison small cities in Saskatchewan like Regina (5), and Saskatoon (10) have more NHL players than 11 million people in the state of Georgia - hockey registration in Georgia is 0.02% (not one fifth of a percent 0.2%, but one-fiftieth of a percent 0.02% play hockey), it's some of the worst hockey registration numbers in North America - what really makes those numbers so staggeringly bad is Georgia's hockey enrollment was 0% in the 1970s and in 52 years it only grew to 0.02% by 2020 (2,078 hockey players) - at that rate Georgia will have 0.04% hockey registration by the year 2072 - all of the smallest states in America have more hockey players registered than Georgia; Vermont 647,464 population (4,289 hockey players), Wyoming 576,851 population (2,195 hockey players), North Dakota 779,179 population (7,310) - all of the smallest provinces in Canada have more hockey players registered than Georgia; Prince Edward Island population 154,331 (5,557 hockey players), Newfoundland population 510,550 (10,052 hockey players), New Brunswick population775,610 (14,418 hockey players) In 2010 the Atlanta Thrashers were valued at $135 million USD Between 2005 to 2010 the Thrashers lost $130 million - $26 million a year in losses In 2011 the Atlanta Thrashers (population 5,729,304 in 2010) relocated to Winnipeg (population 730,018 in 2011). A city with 5 million less people... And the team's value skyrocketed from $135 million in Atlanta to $164 million in Winnipeg - an increase of $29 million In 2012 the team's value skyrocketed from $164 million to $200 million - an increase of $36 million The same team nobody supported in Atlanta moved to Winnipeg and set the NHL record for consecutive sellouts. Between 2011 and 2020 the Winnipeg Jets set the NHL record for most consecutive sellouts; 41 games a year for 10 straight years...that is a record that Atlanta could NEVER accomplish. It didn't matter there was 5.7 million in Atlanta or 11 million people in Georgia if none of them were going to games. Presently they are barely supporting the Atlanta Gladiators in the ECHL (4,240 attendance). Hockey markets like - Kelowna (4,305), Moncton (4,507), London (9,035), Halifax (8,329), Quebec (9,726), Wisconsin (10,059), North Dakota (11,627), all average more people per games than Atlanta. Over 6 million people in Atlanta and you can't do better than Moncton or Kelowna or Windsor Over 11 million people and Georgia can only average 4,240 to games, that's bad, there are no hockey fans in Georgia.

[@MIchaelMiii]

It really feels like Houston and Atlanta are getting expansion teams. The question is when?

[@curt7777]

The Thrashers average attendance was higher in their final season than the Jets this season. Jets are the 6th best team in the league this year. The Thrashers were the 25th best team their last season. The nhl will be back in Atlanta.

[@Gallalad1]

So a few things. 1) The Jets are having their second worst year ever in attendance. Covid really did a number on that and its taking time for people to go back. Especially with economic outlooks not being great in Canada. 2) Despite point 1 they were only 300 off the Thrashers that year. 3) The Jets average attendance is the same or higher (around 15k) than every year Atlanta was in the NHL bar their first year and the 06-07 season. 4) Winnipeg is a far smaller market than Atlanta, the metro area is about 800k compared to Atlanta's 6.3 million meaning that despite being almost 8 times bigger Atlanta couldnt outcompete Winnipeg for all but 2 years. I'm not saying the NHL shouldnt eventually go back to Atlanta but it should be low on the priority list. Any team in Canada will be able to do what the Thrashers did. You could put one in Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories and it would find a way to have 15k averages. Canadians deserve teams more than fairweather fans from the sunbelt.

[@brycemcneil4404]

Winnipeg fans pay more per ticket than most markets in the league. That also can't be ignored. A 13K crowd in Winnipeg, even *AFTER* currency conversion, probably brings more gate money than an average 15K crowd in Atlanta did.

[@TrocarSlushWeasel]

I'm from Atlanta and when I lived there went to a few Thrashers games a season. Now, I'm not pro or con to a return of the NHL to the city but the Flames and Thrashers had outside factors that led to their relocation. The Flames owner went bankrupt and managed to sell the team at an above market rate to the Calgary group. The Dany Heatley crash/Dan Snyder death put a serious dark cloud around the Thrashers just as they were on the rise and set them back years. Plus, Gary Bettman twisted himself into knots to keep the Coyotes in Arizona, dooming the Thrashers time in Atlanta.

[@GuardianOfFreyja]

Not to mention that the NHL approved the sale to ASG, who didn't even want the Thrashers, and then literally refused to sell to anyone who would keep the team in Atlanta.

[@bluerincon]

Tom Cousins (owner of the Flames & Hawks) had money problems and had to sell both teams. (Cousins made the colors of both the Flames & Hawks red and yellow) Atlanta Spirit never wanted the Thrashers they only wanted the Hawks and operating rights to Philips arena. The NHL was progressing but cut down by poor ownership. from the Hockey Writers "Perhaps most importantly, fan support was on the rise. Atlanta’s average attendance was 16,240 that season-better than Boston, Chicago, Washington and New Jersey, among others. Had the Thrashers continued their winning ways, they would have surely been able to sell enough tickets, merchandise, etc. to stay afloat."

[@zacksheets9726]

8:19 The ECHL's Gladiators had an average attendance of 4240 last season. They do a Thrashers Night every year where they become the Thrashers for 1 night only, and that game always sells out. Also, the Gladiators are at the bottom of the ECHL standings

[@brycemcneil4404]

The Gladiators have been a big missed opportunity. When the Thrashers relocated, they suddenly had the market to themselves and they have sucked royally for the last *decade.*

[@shanebarnes6783]

Atlanta has always had an ownership problem. Tom Cousins, who owned the Flames, was cash strapped and a group from Calgary paid around six million dollars to buy and then move the Flames to Calgary. The Thrashers were bought by Ted Turner as an expansion team. Had to sell when the Thrashers and the whole Turner empire (I could be wrong) were bought by Cablevision out of New York, which owned the Rangers, which meant that the Thrashers needed to be sold. The Atlanta spirit group bought not only the Thrashers but the Hawks and the arena they both played in. The Spirit group wanted nothing to do with the Thrashers, and the NHL had to move them from Atlanta due to no owner being available. And I believe the Atlanta spirit group wanted no hockey team in their arena.

[@justinking3127]

Yup. We went to tons of thrasher games and knew someone who was pretty high on the organizations ladder. It’s nice to see others knowing the true story

[@willp.8120]

​@@justinking3127I agree. It is a shame that Canadians continue to believe what they want to believe. Their sports media is merciless when it comes to Atlanta. They lack the facts and, frankly, it is outrageous that their mainstream sports commentators have such a lack of knowledge with regard to what happened in Atlanta. It has been 13 years. You'd think they'd have educated themselves in that timespan.

[@justinking3127]

@@willp.8120 exactly! I will NEVER forget or forgive the way jets fans trashed us when they got our team. I will NEVER pull for them in any way. I’m moving to CO in 2 weeks so I’ve picked the avalanche as my new team since I’ll finally have one nearby again. I’m waiting for that first game to be special, and I’m waiting for them to play the jets. I’ll spend the extra money on good seats and boo the hell out of the jets while I’m in my thrashers jersey and avalanche hat lol. It will be my first NHL game since the last one at Phillips in 2011. Absolutely zero love for them, and I find it ironic that they’re having attendance issues lately

[@sampicano]

"It is a shame that Americans continue to believe what they want to believe." 2010 Atlanta Thrashers value - $135 million USD Between 2005 to 2010 the Thrashers lost $130 million - $26 million a year in losses (record amount of losses) In 2011 the Atlanta Thrashers (population 5,729,304 in 2010) relocated to Winnipeg (population 730,018 in 2011). A city with 5 million less people... And the team's value skyrocketed from $135 million in Atlanta to $164 million in Winnipeg - an increase of $29 million In 2012 the team's value skyrocketed from $164 million to $200 million - an increase of $36 million The same team nobody supported in Atlanta moved to Winnipeg and set the NHL record for consecutive sellouts. Between 2011 and 2020 the Winnipeg Jets set the NHL record for most consecutive sellouts; 41 games a year for 10 straight years...that is a record that Atlanta could NEVER accomplish. It didn't matter there was 5.7 million in Atlanta or 11 million people in Georgia if none of them were going to games. Presently they are barely supporting the Atlanta Gladiators in the ECHL (4,240 attendance). Hockey markets like - Kelowna (4,305), Moncton (4,507), London (9,035), Halifax (8,329), Quebec (9,726), Wisconsin (10,059), North Dakota (11,627), all average more people per games than Atlanta. Over 6 million people in Atlanta and you can't do better than Moncton or Kelowna or Windsor Over 11 million people and Georgia can only average 4,240 to games, that's bad, there are no hockey fans in Georgia. Georgia ranks 50th out of 60 states and provinces in terms of hockey enrollment. Only 9 states have worse hockey enrollment than Georgia (Hawaii, Louisiana, Arkansas, New Mexico, Alabama, Mississippi...none of these places deserve hockey)

[@rileyholden-zc9ip]

With stable ownership Atlanta can work

[@brodiebrazil]

agree. that's the most important part. less about fans, league.

[@atlabama]

A movie should be made about the Atlanta Spirit ownership group that had the Thrashers, Hawks and Philips Arena. They bought it from the ashes of AOL/Time Warner and spent most of their time suing each other while never stepping foot if Atlanta. The Hawks were also run into the ground but had the advantage of drawing fans to watch the away team. Arizona was a worse cluster and was taken over by the NHL while providing no such safe harbor for the Thrashers. Now Arizona plays in a 4k seat arena.

[@squidMB]

Yeah this makes me feel like SLC and Atlanta are getting teams. Probably around 2030 they’ll start playing

[@fadercreek]

Kansas City and Houston too

[@amywirth1479]

@@fadercreeki think Hamilton is more likely than kc

[@fadercreek]

@@amywirth1479 Bettman don't like canada

[@mikeru99]

Well, this comment is a tad off now😂

[@pauldavis1943]

I was SO wrong when I assumed Atlanta would be a poor soccer market. They are the strongest MLS fan base. I would not bet against them again.

[@fadercreek]

Georgia is literally the Capitol for us soccer

[@seankennedy6525]

Would love to be able to dust off the old Thrashers sweater. Love the channel Brodie

[@matthewpeach1776]

Bring back our Thrashers! I agree with will! The other point he didn’t mention was that the arena is planned on being built north of city where the median income per household for the area is $141,000. This is where your season ticket holder base is. Love your show Brodie!!!!

[@brianjones7660]

say it. the white people.

[@jdsmith1740]

You would be Amazed with where Atlanta is today and how bad we want NHL back in Atlanta. Good ownership the team will not only work it WILL THRIVE!!!!!!!!

[@willp.8120]

Also to get an idea of the hockey support in the area, here are some videos from some of the local leagues. The Cooler (Alpharetta) kzbin.info/www/bejne/baXLZH5qraZ0ec0 The Ice (Cumming) kzbin.infom6-H7pEHT3Y Atlanta Ice House (Marietta) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpLJcqaXndmWZ6s Atlanta Madhatters Junior Hockey kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqK0f2x-ad-ngMU Center Ice Arena (Sandy Springs) kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJuxXniCbKiMZ5o Ice Forum (Kennesaw) kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4baZKZsdtGApac Atlanta Capitals Junior Hockey kzbin.info/www/bejne/aofLm2aNlM2pe7s Georgia Tech Hockey Team (At Ice Forum Duluth) kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3rcfZWofbKLj7c And of course our past and present professional major and minor league teams. Atlanta Thrashers kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoiTiKepgtSFpNU kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKS2dIuIj5xoftk Atlanta Gladiators kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmGaeayAdsmihLc Atlanta Knights kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3bYanp3msd9ipo Atlanta Flames kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6K3Y2udjteJhMk

[@bretts2356]

I think its more of a matter of when, not if the NHL comes back to Atlanta. I think the Atlanta and Houston markets specifically are just too big for the NHL to ignore. I also think that you are right, Brodie- the key is Competent Ownership and the League having vested interests in keeping the team there. A lot of folks around are belly-aching about "Oh, but you lost two teams and don't deserve another one!" but they don't fully understand WHY the teams left... regardless- lets look at some numbers. The Atlanta Metro Population in 2010/11 was 5.2 Million. Thrashers attendance was 13,469. Or about .25 of a percent of the metro population. And that was their worst year attendance-wise and the on-ice product was not particularly good. The Atlanta Metro Population now is 6.2 Million. Assuming the same rate of interest (using 2011 as the worst case scenario) you are looking at roughly 15,500 on average. That doesn't sound great... better. But not great. BUT The old arena is downtown. Like Braves fans (who moved their stadium to the northern suburbs) most of the Thrashers fans lived North of the city. It was a hard sell to get them to drive through Atlanta traffic downtown to watch the Thrashers loose by 5 goals. The new arenas are planned to be on the North side of town. Right in the middle of the most densely populated portion of the fanbase. Its also where most of the people with lots of disposable income live. I think that going to an arena even when you know the Thrashers are going to lose by 5 goals is a lot more appealing when that arena doesn't come with a 1 hour drive each way. Most importantly... having owners who actually want the team. That matters. The last owners of the Thrashers bought the team as part of a package deal with the Hawks and Philips Arena. Unfortunately, they didn't want the Thrashers. Not only did they not want them they didn't even want them to play in their arena. Even if they had sold the team to another Atlanta based owner, the Thrashers would have had to find a new barn because Atlanta Spirit Group wouldn't let them play at Philips. Unfortunately, there wasn't another arena option and Winnipeg had a new one... soooooo.

[@brianjones7660]

what are the demographics now? Hint, hint...

[@bretts2356]

@@brianjones7660 Demographics for what? Downtown Atlanta or Alpharetta? Neither has changed much in the last 20 years other than growth. There aren't all that many people that live downtown. Alpharetta is still affluent, just more crowded now.

[@HeritageWealthPlanning]

Putting the team in south Forsythe county would be huge. So much easier for where the hockey fans live to get to. We go to a couple hawks and falcons games a year and it’s a pain in the butt driving downtown. But northern suburbs? Man, I’d get season tickets. Oh we moved here from thr Philly area in 2013

[@jeremiah_12]

From Atlanta to Alpharetta with no transit link is the equivalent of the Flyers moving to Doylestown with no SEPTA service…..would that fly in Philadelphia? If there’s no transit connection, Peach Pass and the new franchise better get creative with promotions because that’s a terrible drive no matter the highway (75, 85, or 285).

[@dylan3488]

@@jeremiah_12Is it any worse than Atlanta to the Battery on 285?

[@amazingeric97]

Another idea for a future video is the city of St Louis that lost two NFL teams - The NFL Cardinals & Rams. Both teams were relocation teams that only stayed in St Louis for a short time. St Louis could be a future NFL expansion if there is enough interest. However St Louis seems happy to have just an NHL & MLB teams. St Louis is geographically close to the Chiefs & Titans.

[@scottNNJ]

Nice response, Will and Brodie! The one thing that gave me pause was that the new arena will be in the SUBURBS. Will this be the problem of the Coyotes in Glendale all over again? Granted, I don’t know the geography of the Atlanta area at all, but being in the city has got to be preferable than the suburb. At least that’s what they said when the Capitals moved from Landover MD to Washington DC, and when the Devils moved from East Rutherford to Newark. I fear what will happen to the Caps if they move back to the suburbs.

[@willp.8120]

Atlanta is different than those cities, I'd say. Thanks for the kind words, Scotte.

[@docdawg15]

The geography and population of Atlanta is different for sure. The population "center" of the Metro Atlanta region is well north of the geographic "center" aka downtown Atlanta. Most of the people with the expendable income to spend on hockey live in the northern suburbs. It's not a racial thing, it's an economic thing. The Braves did a study of where their ticket buyers lived and that became part of the reason they moved to the northern burbs.

[@willp.8120]

Good video, Brodie. You definitely went above what I expected. Thanks. I do believe that a third time for the NHL in Atlanta will be very successful with the right ownership and if they market the team well. I could easily see it being in the top third in attendance or higher. A lot has changed since 2011, and even then Atlanta had a terrible ownership group who did as little as possible and frankly didn't want the team and did all they could do to disengage fan interest (hardly even marketed the team) and sought to remove the Thrashers from their arena. The owners really only wanted the Atlanta Hawks when they purchased the Thrashers in a bundled package sale, and despite the owners being terrible for Atlanta, they still outsold the Hawks in attendance 7 of 11 seasons in downtown Atlanta. These new arena locations (there's a second group in the bunch now) are in the heart of where the hockey fan support is highest in the metro area, as well as where most of the ice hockey rinks and youth and adult recreational leagues are located. Since the Braves moved to the suburbs, attendance is higher and continues to be a huge draw. I have no doubt that with a new Atlanta NHL team, the same would occur, especially considering that both plans are for an entertainment complex with a new arena. Getting to that, yesterday or the day before, Anson Carter, co-owner of the ECHL Atlanta Gladiators, has submitted an application for an Atlanta expansion team. The ownership group is Alpharetta Sports and Entertainment Group. Their plan is working with the city of Alpharetta to redevelop North Point Mall's property to include an arena and entertainment destination adjacent to the arena. Vernon Krause and Krause Sports Entertainment Group is the other potential ownership group. His plans are for the team to play at the Gathering at South Forsyth. Thus, there are now two ownership bids, basically. This gives Atlanta a greater chance, in my opinion. Regarding the Gladiators, it is ECHL hockey, AA hockey, and Gas South Arena has an issue with traffic relative to its location. Attendance is relatively good on weekend games but is lower during the week, namely because of the traffic situation on I-85. It is very hard to make a 7pm puck drop if you get off at work at 5pm, as the traffic up I-85 is bumper to bumper. I once left for a game at 5pm and didn't make it to the arena until 7:45 pm. I missed the entire first period. Of course, this was two days before Thanksgiving and is more extreme, but traffic is still relatively difficult up the 85 corridor, and while parts of Gwinnett from the arena westward have a high number of hockey fans, it is on the edge of the higher hockey fan base, whereas the Alpharetta and Forsyth plans are in the heart of it. Furthermore, traffic moves a lot faster on the Georgia 400 corridor where Alpharetta and South Forsyth are located, as it has far less truck freight traffic. I-85 is one of the heaviest truck freight routes in America. It probably has more freight truck traffic than any other Interstate in the Southeast. Georgia 400 doesn't have these issues and as such is much easier to get to. It's also more centralized in the northern suburbs and can better pull from Cobb and Cherokee counties than Gwinnett can. That said, an NHL caliber team is totally on another level and the fan support would be absolutely massive if marketed well. Also consider there are some Atlanta fans who are still upset that the Thrashers left and, as such, you won't win their support back until the NHL returns. As such, they've cut out attending Gladiators games as it is seen as a slap in the face that a city this large only has AA hockey, along with the likes of Greenville and Reading. When the Thrashers were in town, Gladiators attendance was higher not only because the Thrashers generated more fan interest, but also because many fans hadn't been upset of the NHL pulling out of the city, coupled with the Gladiators putting good teams on the ice, or at least better. This year's team has only won 10 or 11 games since their 8-0 start, after which many of the players that allowed them to go 8-0 were called up to the AHL. Overall, Atlanta is a great sports city, and I am looking forward to the NHL return to Atlanta.

[@dcfog81]

I've never been to Atlanta outside of an airport connection and don't know all the details of the shortcomings of Thrashers ownership. I can't remember which podcast I heard this on but they had mentioned that part of the reason the Thrashers didn't work out was because the arena was downtown. They were saying if the venue was closer to the suburbs, like the Braves have it now, it can possibly work there. Who knows? Also, that point about the NHL being on TNT, I believe the Fox NFL studio is in LA, and there was no team there for decades. Regardless, I do agree 32 teams is enough for now. We just got there. We don't need to dilute the rosters any further

[@mattf2146]

The area is abysmally ghetto. The same has been said about why the old Braves' stadium didn't work out. It was too ghetto and crime-infested for the average Atlanta resident to want to go. Watch the Braves on TV, or risk getting mugged / car burglarized if you go to the stadium.

[@battle4truth701]

​@mattf2146 it was just ghetto. But overall, it was safe. The area has done very well since the Braves left. Center of Atlanta is a different bunch. Ravers, EDM type people. Not sports fans. People went, but now people sell out Truist Park daily.

[@bartphlegar8212]

Hmm. Yeah..."if the venue was closer to the suburbs, like the Braves have it now, it can possibly work there." That is racially coded speech for if they move the arena out to where the white folks live in Cobb, they'll sell more tickets. Which is patently as false as it is racist. NHL would sell more tickets out of Atlanta neighborhoods like Buckhead, Midtown, or Druid Hills than they will out of MTG Country. Not attributing that statement to you sir, but I'm calling it out for what it is. I guess the Falcons should pack up and leave downtown too, huh?...

[@mattf2146]

@@bartphlegar8212 It's not "coded speech." One of the main complaints of the old stadiums in ATL was that they were located in ghetto areas of ATL. State Farm Arena is where the Thrashers used to play. People call it "Stay Away Farm Arena," due to the violence in the area. Nobody wants to be robbed, mugged, or have their car burglarized while trying to enjoy a game. The crime statistics of the area speak for themselves, and - regardless of what you may believe - facts aren't racist. If given the choice between going to a nice area of town, or a crime-infested cesspool area of town, what are people going to prefer?

[@jeremiah_12]

@@mattf2146 The area around Turner Field (it will always be Turner Field, despite the new name) is very gentrified now).

[@brandenhall5350]

The biggest point in Atlanta’s favor is the new location. Most hockey fans are in the suburbs and didn’t want to go to downtown Atlanta. That is the real reason that fan turnout was down in the past.

[@folofus4815]

Bring back the Nordiques instead

[@Zach3ry]

Atlanta is the only perspective markets with two ownership groups ready to take a franchise. You should have mentioned the projective growth of the metro, Atlanta will be home to over 8 million people by 2045. Forsyth, Gwinnett, and Cobb Counties surround the area of the potential arena sites (South Forsyth via Waffle House Group and North Point Mall via Anson Carter/Simon Sports who owns the Indiana Pacers) are the main area of the population growth will occur. Gwinnett County is home of the Gladiators and it will surpass Fulton County to become the most populated county in the state. Atlanta suburbs are very diverse and have a high Asian population I think that's very attractive to the NHL. Seattle and Vegas both are also very diverse and have high Asian populations. .

[@Lawomenshoops]

The NHL has cities/states that are on their second teams! Sure some of them were WHA teams that merged. Minnesota Colorado Winnipeg SF Bay Area Seals and Sharks The NFL also has/had cities/states with two or more teams. Baltimore Cleveland St. Louis Oakland Dallas-first Dallas Texans, who folded after a year or two. Houston LA- Rams, Raiders, Chargers

[@julianromero7615]

Expansion drafts are totally different than back then look at Seattle and Vages

[@tomsanford9391]

I can’t wait I live five miles from where the land is located.It's suppose to be of ronald regan blvd in cumming,ga.

[@matthewjones4037]

Great Feedback enjoy your vlogs I think also having a NHL only dedicated owner would definitely help Atlanta while the other two owners put the teams second to the Hawks

[@davewolf8898]

As to point 9 with Atlanta and Chicago. That was also the time when the Blackhawks home games weren't televised. And yes they were not good years in Chicago, that's also the dealing of their late owner Bill Wurtz, when his son took over after Bill died, he hired the right people in key management positions, which helped turn things around.... Plus we'll say a few great drafts with Kane and Toews leading the way.

[@megailbodie]

Yes do

[@user-sk6yr8zm5b]

So many people are spot on blaming the ownership. It was an embarrassment to have them suing each other more than working together to build a winner. One point that always drove me nuts with Don Waddell’s GM decisions to go for soft players. Goalie Damian Rhodes and his frosted hair was the first Thrasher signed and Patrick Stefan (I know, who?) was our #1 overall pick. The Flames were built to be tough and often stood toe to toe with the Broad St Bullies of the 70s. I was at a lot of those games as a kid, it was like the Roman Colosseum when a fight erupted. The Thrashers were never able to push anyone around. Evander Kane brought some toughness near the end but it was too little too late, I guess.

[@cameronvandevelde4186]

Atlanta is NOT the only NHL Team to receive and lose two teams....Quebec City is also another city. the Quebec Bulldogs got an NHL team in 1919 and only lasted 1 season there before they relocated to the Hamilton Tigers. Then, the Quebec Nordiques lost their team in the 90's and moved to Arizona and people would prefer Quebec City over Atlanta for an expansion team? I don't understand that....while Quebec city is a great Hockey market and people love the sport there, it would one of the smallest Canadian markets in the NHL. the Atlanta Market is THE Biggest market on the Eastern side of the United States/Canada that doesn't have an NHL team. Market wise and population wise, Atlanta makes the most sense and should be a Top Candiate if the NHL were to bring in a Expansion team for the Eastern Conference. Heck, now you have 2 different ownership groups interested in bringing an NHL team back to Atlanta. It's going to happen whether people like it or not

[@scottbussey499]

They just need to be good. If not they will be dwarfed in popularity by the Braves, united, and UGA football.

[@willp.8120]

The Braves and UGA football are always going to be the most popular teams. The only thing to change that is for other teams to go on a multiple decade dynasty run. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that an Atlanta NHL team can be very successful here, just as the Falcons have been. UGA football is more popular than the Falcons, but the Falcons still have a strong fan support and do relatively well even when the team has multiple losing seasons.

[@soxpacker]

I heard the league wants a team there now that they are on TNT (based in Atlanta)...it was a better market than Arizona.

[@brycemcneil4404]

I really appreciated this video because it wasn't the simplistic "one of two extremes" where the host either belittles the idea of hockey in Atlanta or lazily says "MARKETEZZZZZ therefore success!" It was a good dispassionate assessment. But I will add: the NHL *has* been tried in downtown Atlanta twice (in an arena with a bonded basketball team while they were not bonded). The NHL has *not* been tried in the northern Atlanta suburbs in a "team-as-first-tenant" model. Does this mean there might still be some lean attendance years? Possibly. But I'd argue those would be less fatal in the long run when the owner and county center their entire project on the NHL team, rather than "NHL team *too*....I guess." Dedication is very important. If you run the first few years of the Thrashers vs. the Penguins or *especially* the Capitals, the stories arent that different. But there was more dedication in the latter stories. The Caps are now *9th* on Forbes valuation list! Not that Forbes valuations are flawless; but that's telling of what can happen with dedication in a major market even after a crummy launch.

[@NicEeEe843]

You can’t put a bad product on the ice consistently and expect people to come, period

[@tomk.3428]

I think that they should be allowed to start-up another team AS LONG AS a city in Canada, perhaps Quebec, is ready and willing to take them in within three years.

[@waynejones5635]

I'm all for it ... Quebec City needs a team and every time Atlanta gets a team they move to Canada. People in certain non-traditional markets, just don't care about hockey. Atlanta is one of those places. ** Insert Curb Your Enthusiasm theme music while watching Atlanta Thrashers hockey hilarity in front of empty seats. Since Atlanta is big city with a large media market, they should have a professional cricket team too ... who cares if nobody would watch it. 😄👍

[@willp.8120]

You can't possibly compare cricket with ice hockey. Ice hockey is a Big 4 sport in the USA, whereas cricket is a fringe sport, even more so than rugby or lacrosse.

[@HeritageWealthPlanning]

😂

[@brianjones7660]

@@willp.8120 no its a 2nd Tier sport. No national TV money for the teams to rely on . Why?

[@kevinturner1849]

Brodie, I do see the NHL expanding in the future. I do think they will eventually get to 36. The 4 cities I see getting teams are Salt Lake City, Houston, Atlanta and Quebec City. Myself I’d like to see the Whalers come back. I think Bettman wants to be the first to get to 36. I can also see MLB doing the same thing in the near future. But time will tell. And keep up the good work, love watching your videos

[@user-ox1qd8zj5g]

i dont really want expansion right now cause you have to fix arizona coyotes and the winnipeg jets figure out what to do with them then maybe as soon as they figure that out maybe you expand going into the 2030s

[@kgroves17]

As long as Utah gets a team as well I’m fine with it 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@thebaseballnerd4570]

Also, if you want to get into deluding the talent. I would say that’s not the case. Because they’re giving more players opportunity to prove what they can do on teams that they will not have gotten a chance with before. However, you might have to increase the playoffs from 16 teams to 20 teams if you go to 36

[@kevinmauws9562]

I'm really hoping that Atlanta gets another NHL team. Then in 3 or 4 years they can move to Quebec City.

[@bustertn2014]

So they can stay there for a short time till they move again as well?

[@thomasjoseph3488]

Very few people in the rest of the country like Atlanta. Everyone would avoid it if we weren't stuck with the airport funneling.

[@willp.8120]

Why do you say few people in the rest of the country like Atlanta?

[@thomasjoseph3488]

​@willp.8120 The airport is just something we are forced to endure. No one actually wants to be in that cacophony. The hub system rules. Driving through the area is just painful. Politically, most of the country and the rest of Georgia despises Atlanta and the associated counties for all the reasons in the news.

[@willp.8120]

@@thomasjoseph3488 I don't watch the news, so you'll have to be more clear. I live in the northern suburbs close to the new arena plans, and it is nice here. Traffic is a problem in every major metropolitan area in the country. The area around the airport is crime-filled and is not safe.

[@thomasjoseph3488]

@willp.8120 OK. Referring to the Fani Willis fiasco and the 2020 election shenanigans. Regarding traffic, you are correct that all large cities are terrible. Outside of those places, the rest of the country doesn't like those cesspools either!

[@potluck5896]

Shoutout Will P for the facts

[@luismarichal13]

❤ the show

[@KWally]

Atlanta has been talking to the league since 2018, they'll be the first ones getting a team. Theyre the furthest along with a new building as well.

[@sampicano]

Quebec city, Houston, Hamilton, Portland, Milwaukee all have arenas built already. How is Atlanta furthest along? What a lie

[@mattf2146]

Too ghetto.

[@willp.8120]

@@mattf2146 Not at all. Downtown Connector (probably on a Sunday with lighter traffic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGSXfaJjoNBlnc0 Various skylines of the Atlanta area: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKHMnamrbMh6hJY Alpharetta, city around where the two arenas are being proposed. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5eQgJuaqdeXhbs Alpharetta downtown: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXqaZZqvqcl7p5Y Alpharetta home tour (to get an idea of the residential in the area) kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpm9YYxjgZuoo8U Definitely not ghetto.

[@Hoovie9596]

Pfffffffffff hahahahahahahaahahahahahahaa

[@antioch1975]

​@@sampicanoAtlanta would be further along for building a new arena. Milwaukee? 😂 That arena is 70 years old . Portland is nearly 30, Houston(which I do think should get a team) is nearly 20. Quebec City is nearly 10 years old. Why in the world would you want to be an owner for a team and move into a pre-existing arena so you can spend millions upgrading it to your liking? When the Thrashers started, Phillips had just been built in 1999. All I see from all of your responses is whining. You are single handedly keeping Kimberly-Clark in business with all the Kleenex you buy to dry those tears thinking about Atlanta possibly getting a team. 😂

[@joshuaolsen5125]

Is it possible for the NHL to have more than 32 teams though given that so many Canadian teams exist? I feel like this is the trick in the MLS as well. Being able to have more teams in more metro areas because you increase the number of metro areas that can support a team.

[@willp.8120]

I think they should break off into separate leagues. NHL USA and NHL Canada. NHL Canada can have their Hamilton, Saskatoon, Halifax, Quebec City, London, Victoria, Hamilton Bay, second Toronto team, second Montreal team, etc.

[@hughjass1044]

I definitely support Atlanta getting a team. It's the surest way I know for Quebec to get one.

[@ianhiggins1696]

Hey Brodie, I love your channel and especially your content, I’m surprised you’re not a tv host on one of the major sports networks in the US? You’re too talented not to be. I’ve edified you enough now so let’s get to the real topic I wanted discuss. It’s inevitable Brazil that the NHL will have 36 teams in the next 10 years or so. Atlanta, Houston, Salt Lake and it’s a toss up between Kansas City and Quebec City for the Cities who will be part of the NHL. I know it’s not you wanna hear but it’s gonna happen. Look the NFL if they happen to expand to Europe in the next 5-10 years will do it with 4 teams and form a division because it makes more sense than just one or two teams. The NHL owners want more money that they don’t have to share with the players and there are two major markets that are currently not in the league, Houston and Atlanta. In the case of dilution, that’s what everyone always says when leagues expand and not one of them has suffered from that. Take the Golden Knights for example, they took a bunch of cast offs to the Stanley Cup Final in their first year…who does that? So I’m hear to bust your theory Brazil. Keep doing the quality work you’re doing, I do enjoy your channel a lot.

[@brianjones7660]

Ask Molson if they will allow QC to have a team again. Fixed it for you. Do keep up?

[@XxxXxx-fm3wo]

How else will Saskatoon in the 2040's get a NHL team!

[@ScottBlack13]

Brodie please read… I normally don’t comment but you welcomed any valid points to the conversation. You have said that the NHL is at 32 teams and no other major North American leagues have over 32. This is as you say, comparing apples to oranges. Here’s the difference, MLB, NFL, NBA have how many teams in the US vs how many teams in Canada. Those leagues have maybe 0-1 team in Canada (depending on the league of course.) The NHL has 7 Canadians teams so really when competing with those sports leagues in the US, they only have 25 markets. Of course money is a big reason to expand but bigger than that in my opinion is if the NHL ever wants to grow in the US to the size of the other leagues, they need a bigger US presence. They need several more markets/cities. An example of this is Quebec. Quebec has asked the NHL for a team, even during the Vegas expansion time period. They have the building and the fans but have not gotten an expansion team. Why? Not b/c it wouldn’t be successful, it actually would be a huge success. It’s b/c they are not a US market, they are not a new market. The NHL wants to grow in the US. Another reason to be in the US is the Canadian dollar vs US dollar and NHL players are paid in US dollars even if they play in Canada. Sorry I digress and this is getting long. My point is, for you to say, oh the NHL has 32 teams and no other league has more, it’s a fair comparison in my opinion b/c the NHL competes for that entertainment sports dollar and only has 25 markets in the US. They need to grow to compete. Hope that makes sense how I explained it.

[@dominicgarcia34]

Houston is bigger in every metric than Atlanta. Both cities the NHL should want to have

[@willp.8120]

Houston is a little larger in metro population, but the demographics for support for a hockey team is far greater in Atlanta than Houston. Atlanta is a wealthier region. It has a more diversified economy (Houston is heavily based in energy). It has a larger media market than Houston. Plus, Atlanta's sports teams in MLB, MLS, NFL, and NBA have outperformed every Houston team in attendance. Don't get me wrong, I think Houston would be a good second choice for the NHL with Atlanta, but Atlanta is simply a better all around market.

[@dominicgarcia34]

@@willp.8120 the Texans rockets and arstos are all valued higher than braves, falcons, hawks

[@dominicgarcia34]

@willp.8120 Houston gdp is greater than than Atlanta gdp by a far margin. Size of the media market is irrelevant when Houston population size is double that of Atlanta

[@willp.8120]

@@dominicgarcia34 Do you bother to research this stuff? Metropolitan Houston has about 7.4 million people, whereas Atlanta is at 6.4 million people. That said, Atlanta has a more favorable demographic fanbase for hockey than Houston (I'm not saying that it can't work in Houston.) I never said anything about GDP, but understand that a lot of that is tied up in energy and NASA. Atlanta has a more diversified economy by actual corporations in industries where they deal more directly with average people. Houston's city proper population is high because its land area within the city limits is so large. Atlanta has a small area for its city limits, but it has a considerably larger urbanized land mass than Houston, about a quarter to a third larger.

[@dominicgarcia34]

@willp.8120 business diversity is irrelevant as long as you have sponsors with big pockets. Houston has those. Houston has 2 million residents inside the city loop that 7.4 comes from all of Harris County. Atlanta does not have 2 million residents in the downtown area. Once again every business metric you can come up with Houston edges Atlanta. Not saying Atlanta is a small American city in any way. But Houston is top 3 in the county not to mention it is the most diverse population in the entire country. If you wanna grow the game it's a city that could help grow the league I

[@krobb93]

Before the NHL can return back to Atlanta, they need to grow the actual sport of hockey in the state itself. Sure there is a finite percentage of people in the area that probably love the sport but I don’t think the area is that hockey crazy. What needs to happen is for the city and by extension the state to grow the collegiate/youth scene before we can start talking about getting a pro team in the area

[@willp.8120]

The Atlanta area has far more recreational leagues than Raleigh and Tampa do, and those are two of the most successful NHL franchises.

[@sampicano]

Hockey registration un Georgia was 0% in 1970 It was 0.02% (one-fiftieth of a percent) in 2020. 52 years and 0.02% growth rate So by 2072 the growth rate would be 0.04% Practically ZERO growth in 104 years. Yeah, I think Atlanta should have 2 teams. Atlanta is the best hockey market on Earth. 0.04% growth in 104 years

[@willp.8120]

@@sampicano Still, hockey registration doesn't determine who will generate the highest attendance. Case in point Carolina and Tampa Bay being 2 and 3 last year. As of this year, Tampa Bay is 3rd and Carolina is 5th. Plus, Atlanta has more leagues than pretty much any other southeastern market. The Cooler (Alpharetta) kzbin.info/www/bejne/baXLZH5qraZ0ec0 The Ice (Cumming) kzbin.infom6-H7pEHT3Y Atlanta Ice House (Marietta) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpLJcqaXndmWZ6s Atlanta Madhatters Junior Hockey kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqK0f2x-ad-ngMU Center Ice Arena (Sandy Springs) kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJuxXniCbKiMZ5o Ice Forum (Kennesaw) kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4baZKZsdtGApac Atlanta Capitals Junior Hockey kzbin.info/www/bejne/aofLm2aNlM2pe7s Georgia Tech Hockey Team (At Ice Forum Duluth) kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3rcfZWofbKLj7c

[@HHSGDFootballJPD]

Disagree. They didn't have 30 rinks in LA & Orange County in 1965 before the Kings got there. A competitive team will get fans to the game, who'll like (and maybe fall in love with) hockey. Let Atlanta experience playoff hockey a couple times (and not the top 12 of 14 teams get into the playoffs bit). The energy and passionate fans will get more fans interested. Then those fans (and their kids) will sign up for hockey. BTW-- besides Univ of Alabama Birmingham and Arizona State, I don't know of any college hockey team south of D.C. or SF.

[@sampicano]

@@HHSGDFootballJPD "A competitive team will get fans to the game" This is an echo chamber of stupidity. So now the Atlanta Thrashers failed because the team wasn't competitive? Then those same players, that same roster went to Winnipeg and sold out the next year... Realize what a failure Atlanta was Winnipeg did not care about competitiveness, they SHOWED up like true hockey fans. Atlanta has to be coddled to work, propped up by more successful teams like the parasitic Coyotes.

[@lolo27234]

Atlanta is a sports city (braves hawks falcons) but they would need a real marketing push to make it and would have to avoid controversy to avoid going the way of the thrashers

[@nathanbaca5131]

Atlanta is a different city now then when the Thrashers left. I think they could build a fan base that can support a team staying there long term. Football will always dominate but the recent support for ATL United in the MLS is proof that less popular sport leagues can find financial success in Atlanta.

[@WrongedSports]

The first 7 "points" that were referenced summary: Atlanta is big in population, money, and sponsorship. None of these points make the case for Atlanta having a team over Houston, since Houston is bigger and has the arena

[@gordonwhitney6052]

The pedant in me must point out that even though they still have the Canadiens, Montreal has lost 2 NHL teams - the Wanderers (folded after their arena burned down in the NHL's first season) and the Maroons (1924-38).

[@elosogonzalez8739]

It boils down to the teams performance. If you win, the arena will be full. If the team loses, you'll have issues. Arizona is having. Lack of respect for the fans and gross mismanagement from ownership. The Coyotes will end up moving.

[@sominboy2757]

NGL, the thrashers had the right ingredients to build a core, it just materialized in Winnipeg. Had they stayed it would have been an 8 year playoff drought.

[@user-cr4kl3uf5w]

We have a ECHL franchise in wheeling wv and cheap seats are 10 bucks glass seats are 25

[@willp.8120]

Cheap seats in Atlanta are about three times that amount.

[@user-cr4kl3uf5w]

@@willp.8120 we are about a hour drive or so from Pittsburgh. I think the league is definitely family affordable. Unlike the NHL it’s not family friendly what so ever. Them glads are having a down here. I feel sorry for u guys. Btw what’s goin on with Athens Georgia are they still getting that ECHL team ?

[@willp.8120]

​@@user-cr4kl3uf5w Athens is in the radar for the ECHL but I'm not certain when that is coming.

[@theadventuresofjimmycrapol8827]

Sports fans can be like entitled spoiled children. Las Vegas has never gone through the pain of being a true expansion team like all the previous expansion teams had to endure. Nashville has become a great Hockey Market and so has Tampa Bay (among others). They had their years of pain. Las Vegas was handed a cup contender right out of the gate, and a situation where they should be competitive for at least 10 more seasons... but the jury is still out in my honest opinion. I want to see how the fan base reacts when in 10 or 15 years they finish in the bottom 3 or 4 teams in the standings for 6 or 7 straight seasons. Then, and only then will we know how good that market is for hockey. It's very easy to cheer for a team that makes the cup final right out of the gate.

[@TimFrith24]

On May 18, 2026, an Atlanta-based group, led by Atlanta Falcons and Atlanta United FC owner Arthur Blank and Atlanta Hawks principal owner Tony Ressler, will purchase the Florida Panthers from Vincent Viola for $1.82 billion, including a relocation fee of $195 million to relocate the Panthers to Atlanta. On June 23, 2026, the NHL Board of Governors will approve both the sale and relocation of the Panthers to Atlanta in a 30-1 vote, so after 33 seasons in the Miami area, the Panthers will relocate to Atlanta to become the Atlanta Thrashers and play their home games at State Farm Arena in the 2026-27 NHL season.

[@fadercreek]

since nobody is talkin about it the growth of us soccer is gonna expose so many cities that could support a pro sports team

[@BillyJoeMcallister]

Quebec City would fill the arena without checking many of those boxes.

[@thebaseballnerd4570]

So you need a competent team competent owner and dedication from the NHL to make it work. So pretty much what Oakland doesn’t have then

[@justinking3127]

The Atlanta spirit ownership group intentionally sabotaged the team and sold them the first chance they got. With the right owners, the possibilities are endless. Growing up we knew some people high on the ladder and let’s just say it was a NIGHTMARE behind the scenes. With owners who actually care, the possibilities are endless

[@dreamcage1801]

Not just Atlanta but San Diego wants a NHL team too and their sports city can be rejuvenated

[@Where2bub]

Both Philadelphia and Boston are much closer to New York City than Buffalo is. Buffalo is like Canada, but Philadelphia and New York City is just 2 hours drive apart. So when talking about the greater New York metropolitan area, you might consider Philadelphia creatively, but Buffalo might as well be the greater Toronto area

[@mmc11512]

Sunbelt hockey markets with existing NBA teams, eugh. Fine when the teams winning but when they're not it's a huge problem. Don't need teams in Phoenix, Miami/FL or Atlanta.

[@wildwilliamplayz6295]

Atlanta is not the only city to lose 2 NHL teams. No one ever talks about the pre original six NHL teams which add Quebec City which lost the Bulldogs in 1919 and the Quebec Nordiques in 1995 and Montreal which lost the Wanderers mid way through the 1917 season and the Montreal Maroons which folded in the late 30s or early 40s

[@CanadaMMA]

Good video, but I do feel the need to stand up for Calgary and Edmonton as "speciality" markets, while Buffalo is called a general one. Buffalo has a population of maybe 250k? Calgary and Edmonton are over a million.

[@brodiebrazil]

if i said buffalo was a "big" one, i certainly take that back. it's definitely more "specialty" along the lines of EDM, CGY

[@sampicano]

If Edmonton and Calgary are specialty markets then what does that make Phoenix Anaheim Miami and Carolina? Failed markets? Bigger cities that generate less revenue than small hockey markets...sounds like a failure 😕

[@maxpowr90]

Buffalo is definitely on the chopping block for relocation, unless the state of NY throws even more money at the Pegulas. I doubt the appetite is there to do so.

[@brianjones7660]

@@maxpowr90 hardly. Where are you from?

[@charliem9831]

Didn’t Atlanta have most of this during the time of Thrashers?

[@willp.8120]

When the Thrashers were here, the metro population was 9th or 10th. It is now 6th. The media market at the time was 11th. It is now 6th. Attendance for other Atlanta sports teams were lower then than they are now for those same teams. Atlanta has also gone from 11-12th highest GDP to 8th. Corporate support was good then, but there are now more headquartered companies located here. Norfolk-Southern relocated here, as did Porsche for its North American headquarters. Google has made a huge investment in the region, and Microsoft has purchased a lot of land on the west side of the city for a future tech village, so to speak. The area is also home to Delta Airlines and Atlanta also has the world's busiest airport, so flights into and out of the city come very easy.

[@sampicano]

To summarize yes they had all that and still failed.

[@willp.8120]

@@sampicano Ownership issues.

[@sampicano]

@@willp.8120 Mommy issues you really aren't saying anything Atlanta moved to Winnipeg with the same roster and found success. They were managed fine. Atlanta Flames and Thrashers had no fans. That's the truth, small markets like Calgary and Winnipeg re more successful than Atlanta. They were more successful and STILL ARE.

[@willp.8120]

@@sampicano Why do you say things that are not true? First off, Atlanta had decent attendance. IN EIGHT SEASONS (8), the Atlanta Flames: -Had higher attendance than the Pittsburgh Penguins 6 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Chicago Blackhawks 6 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Detroit Redwings 4 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Los Angeles Kings4 seasons. In ELEVEN SEASONS (11), the Atlanta Thrashers: -Had higher attendance than the Phoenix Coyotes 8 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the New York Islanders 8 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the New Jersey Devils 5 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Anaheim Mighty Ducks 5 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Washington Capitals 5 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Nashville Predators 6 seasons. -Had higher attendance than Chicago Blackhawks 5 seasons. If you can outattend Chicago, an original six city, you don't "have no fans". That's irrational, and you know it. Atlanta also had an ownership group who were terrible. Winnipeg has a different owner. Atlanta Spirit Group sold the Thrashers to True North Sports. One did not invest in the community, market, etc., the other did. This is not hard to figure out. Even then, as shown above, the Thrashers did okay given their circumstances. These videos prove that hockey has fan interest in the Atlanta area going back to the 70s. Atlanta Thrashers kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoiTiKepgtSFpNU kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKS2dIuIj5xoftk Atlanta Gladiators kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmGaeayAdsmihLc Atlanta Knights kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3bYanp3msd9ipo Atlanta Flames kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6K3Y2udjteJhMk

[@Camry23]

PLEASE Garry Bettman, expand the league. Add Salt Lake and Houston to the Western Conference. Add Atlanta and Quebec City to the Eastern Conference. Both conferences would remain equal in the # of teams.

[@dreamcage1801]

No Kansas City?

[@battle4truth701]

They are talking about moving too far into the Suburbs. CNN also just left for good. Sign was taken down last week.

[@brianbaird7797]

Its working out well for the Braves

[@willp.8120]

@@brianbaird7797 Yep, definitely working out well for the Braves. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmWsnYKHl9dgg6s

[@willp.8120]

They are essentially looking to put the team in the heart of where the Thrashers season ticket fanbase was located. The Braves did the same prior to their move to Truist Park (SunTrust Park) from Turner Field, and that is why they chose to build where they built. The area was where they had a higher concentration of season ticket holders.

[@willp.8120]

Regarding CNN, while they left the CNN Center Building by State Farm Arena, they are moving operations over to the Turner Studios in Midtown. Yess, CNN has moved some of their broadcasting to New York, but CNN will still be headquartered in Atlanta and have a presence here. Even if they left, Atlanta has the Turner Networks, as well as The Weather Channel.

[@jeremiah_12]

@@willp.8120 See how easy misinformation can spread😂. Good for clearing that up, it kills me that folks don’t verify things before they post. Every story of CNN mentions that they moved out of one building in ATL to another building in the same city but that guy wants people to think ATL is hemorrhaging assets left and right.

[@user-qt1ly3tw9v]

Get the NHL back in ATL.

[@DuckOfRubber]

11:15 Given the excuse of ownership for Atlanta in his previous bullet point, its disingenuous to not acknowledge that Bill Wirtz was one of the most fan hostile owners ever in pro sports, and that things turned around for the Blackhawks immediately after he died.

[@dusty3033]

If anyone deserves a nhl team it's Quebec and could see kansas city getting one before atlanta

[@robertweisman3122]

By your arguments San Jose had many more issues about sustainability of a franchise than Atlanta. Sharks have commuted ownership but more teams and diluted product will not help the NHL

[@scottc9414]

Its great to have the population but if they dont show up doesnt matter how big a city is

[@christiandoll4435]

Twice is enough.

[@georgehand]

Even if I was open to expansion which I’m not but if I was I’d be saying no no no as Atlanta isn’t a failing market its failed past tense!!!

[@willp.8120]

It had nothing to do with attendance, so that is a moot point. Please just stop with this argument. It's like claiming Seattle shouldn't get an NBA team back because they lost the Sonics (which also had nothing to do with attendance). You could say the same for St. Louis, the NFL, and the Rams and Cardinals.

[@jeremiah_12]

True, you need a competent owner and upper management. The potential site is problematic because it’s in a far flung northern suburb and needs to have easy access from the city. There needs to be a transit stop that connect it to the city core. I get that there are a lot of hockey rinks and transplants in those burbs but to use the Atlanta name and not have direct connection with Atlanta is a bad look and may affect attendance.

[@davidrosca8059]

Atlanta Thrashers Is Coming Back In The NHL

[@brodiebrazil]

Says the expos avatar

[@davidrosca8059]

Montreal Expos Is Coming In The MLB@@brodiebrazil

[@davidrosca8059]

@@brodiebrazil Montreal Expos Is Coming Back In The MLB

[@Hogtownboy1]

The only team with a flushing toilet as a logo

[@Hoovie9596]

Forget the Thrashers. Bring back the EXPOS

[@JStorm13]

5 of those 6 networks that he mentioned are owned by the same company, warner discovery. So that point is moot.

[@curt7777]

You should do just a little research on why the Thrashers left Atlanta. Do a little research!

[@sampicano]

​Calgary had professional hockey since 1920 Edmonton had professional hockey since 1911 Vancouver had professional hockey since 1911 - Calgary and Edmonton only got NHL team’s in 1972...the same year Atlanta got an NHL team and Vancouver only got an NHL team two years before Atlanta did. The NHL has been thriving in small Canadian markets since 1970 - Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver have benefitted the NHL - meanwhile Atlanta lost money with BOTH FRANCHISES, it doesn’t matter how big the city is…it turns out 6 million people not showing up to games is still ZERO. Ottawa had professional hockey since 1883, they only got an NHL team in 1992. - they had to wait 20 years longer than Atlanta Seattle had professional hockey since 1915, they only got an NHL team in 2021. - they had to wait 50 years longer than Atlanta ATLANTA HAD TO FAIL TWICE BEFORE THEY EVEN CONSIDERED GOING TO SEATTLE…WHY SHOULD TRUE HOCKEY FANS SUPPORT THE LEAGUE THAT IGNORES THEM? Portland has had professional hockey since 1914, they still have no NHL team. Quebec has had professional hockey since 1878, they still have no NHL team. Hamilton has had professional hockey since 1920, they still have no NHL team. Basketball is most popular in the South and the Midwest - the NBA went to Memphis, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Chicago, Indiana, Detroit, and Cleveland. Baseball is most popular in fair weather states; Arizona, California, Texas, Florida, and Georgia - the MLB went to Phoenix, San Diego, LA twice, San Francisco, Oakland, Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston. Hockey is most popular in Canada, New England, and the states that border Canada (Massachusetts, Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, New York, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, and Washington). Since Gary Bettman was elected commissioner in 1992, the NHL expanded into: - Ottawa, Tampa, Florida, Anaheim, Raleigh, Phoenix, Nashville, Atlanta, Saint-Paul, Columbus, Winnipeg, Seattle, and Vegas. Since 2012 the franchises that have lost the most money in the NHL: - Tampa, Florida, Anaheim, Raleigh, Phoenix, Atlanta, and Columbus. - Expansion, expansion, expansion, expansion, expansion, expansion, and expansion. - South, South, South, South, South, South, and South Must be a coincidence? Probably just a massive 10 year long coincidence? Or maybe those aren’t hockey markets? In the 1990s the NHL removed teams in Manitoba (Winnipeg Jets), Minnesota (Minnesota North Stars), Quebec (Quebec Nordiques), and Connecticut (Hartford Whalers). The NHL went back to Minnesota in 2000, and Winnipeg in 2011 - after realizing what a mistake it was to leave those markets in the first place. Meanwhile Atlanta, and Phoenix lost so much money they had to relocate. Arizona/Phoenix Coyotes: Winnipeg Jets moved to Phoenix in 1996... - Phoenix never generated money for the NHL, over 28 years they were a net loss team. - Phoenix went bankrupt in 2008 - Phoenix was sued by the city of Phoenix (twice) - Phoenix was sued by the city of Glendale for not paying taxes - Phoenix was rejected by the city of Scottsdale - Phoenix was rejected by the city of Tempe - Phoenix lost $141.6 million between 2012 and 2021 - During the 2023-2024 season the Arizona Coyotes were not paying hotel bills - THEY FINALLY RELOCATED in 2024 Atlanta Thrashers: The NHL decided to expand into Georgia for a second time in 1999… - Atlanta Thrashers set the record for most money lost by any franchise in the history of the NHL, in 5 years between 2005 and 2010 the Atlanta Thrashers lost $130 million (USD). - Atlanta’s population in 2010 (4,544,000) - Winnipeg’s population in 2011 (731,000) Atlanta Thrashers were valued at: 2006 = $128,000,000 2007 = $148,000,000 2008 = $158,000,000 2009 = $143,000,000 2010 = $135,000,000 Atlanta moves to Winnipeg - Winnipeg Jets value immediately skyrockets after leaving Atlanta: 2011 = $164,000,000 2012 = $200,000,000 2013 = $340,000,000 2014 = $358,000,000 2015 = $350,000,000 Winnipeg uses Canadian currency and has 4 million less people than Atlanta, but the franchise only started making money once they left Atlanta. It’s not just Atlanta….Winnipeg is the smallest market in the NHL, but the Winnipeg Jets generate more revenue for the NHL than: The NHL teams that lost the most money over the past decade (2012-2021): -$152,900,000 = Florida Panthers (Miami - 6,183,199) -$141,600,000 = Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix - 4,845,832) -$108,800,000 = Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh-Durham - 1,509,231) -$83,500,000 = Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles-Anaheim - 12,799,100) -$76,000,000 = Columbus Blue Jackets (Columbus - 2,180,271) -$74,400,000 = Tampa Lightning (Tampa-Saint Petersburg - 3,342,963) -$59,900,000 = Buffalo Sabres (Buffalo - 1,155,604) -$130,000,000 = Atlanta Thrashers (Atlanta - 6,307,261) [Atlanta lost $130 million in 5 years from 2005 to 2010] +$4,900,000 = Winnipeg Jets (Winnipeg - 758,515) Meanwhile Winnipeg, with only 700 thousand people, paying in Canadian currency is generating MORE MONEY than Miami, or Atlanta or Phoenix or Anaheim, or Tampa… The only seasons Winnipeg did not generate revenue were during Covid-19 from 2019-2021. Winnipeg lost -$46 million dollars during Covid, despite losing $46 million Winnipeg still overall managed to be profitable ($4,900,000). There are only two cities remaining in Canada capable of supporting an NHL team that don't have one: Quebec City - 839,311 (2024) Hamilton - 785,184 (2024) -Quebec City (839,311) is larger than Winnipeg 834,678. - Winnipeg is a more viable city for an NHL team than Atlanta or Phoenix. - Quebec City is also a more viable city for an NHL team than Atlanta or Phoenix. - The NHL is a revenue sharing league, and every NHL team in Canada generates revenue for the league. - An NHL team in Quebec City or Hamilton would generate more money than a team in Phoenix or Atlanta. #NeverAtlanta NevaATL

[@Statsy10]

The biggest red flag for me in this video was the idea that the new arena is in the suburbs. This is always a recipe for disaster, particularly with a market where we are not sure about their level of passion for the game.

[@willp.8120]

Disaster? Are the Atlanta Braves a disaster, as they are located in the suburbs of Atlanta. Huge success. Higher attendance in the suburbs than at Turner Field near downtown Atlanta. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmWsnYKHl9dgg6s

[@Statsy10]

@@willp.8120 My bad. I said “always” a disaster when I should have said “often” a disaster.

[@willp.8120]

​@@Statsy10It has never been a disaster in the Atlanta area. Also, Detroit drew well with the Lions and Pistons for years playing in the suburbs.

[@Statsy10]

@@willp.8120 Why are you not mentioning any hockey teams? Both the Coyotes and Senators had major problems with suburban arenas.

[@willp.8120]

​@@Statsy10Well, I am aware of the Glendale situation, but consider that the issue with Glendale is that it isn't where most of the fans lived. That side of the Phoenix area has a high preponderance of senior retirees who aren't going to going to many games. The fans at this point feel the situation is hopeless, though there are some encouraging signs today with a potential location, but understand that when an ownership has problems or outright doesn't care it turns off a fan base. Oakland is a prime example. Regarding suburban Atlanta, as I have said, I see greater success than downtown for a number of reasons. You really have to live here or know your stats or demographics to understand why that is.

[@penguinsfan251]

The comnents about Atlanta being a bad market are ridiculous. What happened in 1980 is not relevant today. The Spirit Group, the owners who sold the Thrashers to Winnipeg, drove the team into the ground on purpose in order to get rid of them. Anyone who blames Thrashers fans for that is an idiot. The whining about Quebec is old and tiresome. The bankruptcy of Ottawa and the poor attendance of Winnipeg doom Quebec. Too bad for Canada. Hockey is the Canadian spoet but Canada does not own hockey. Get used to it. The NHL WILL expand again. The owners list a lot of money due to Covid and expansion is one way to get that money back. Houston and Atlanta are huge markets. Houston has hockey history and a built in rivalry with Dallas. Atlanta is just too big to ignore. Those are the facts.

[@robertv3226]

NHL to Portland

[@sampicano]

NHL to Milwaukee

[@michaelleroy9281]

Stay at 32

[@sampicano]

@@michaelleroy9281 Yeah, or NEVER ATLANTA is also an option

[@TheJamesBibleKing]

Bring Thrashers back and the people will come.

[@DamienKarras1]

The follow-up question is if Atlanta gets a third NHL team, which western Canadian city will they relocate to after four or five seasons?!?!

[@sampicano]

Simple launch a season ticket Drive between Atlanta and Quebec City and let's see who can sell more tickets the winner gets the NHL team

[@XxxXxx-fm3wo]

I say in 9 seasons to be fair, and Saskatoon will be a good location for a team in a small specialty market.

[@vlad2838]

Will hockey resonate culturally with the ethnography of the Atlanta area? It certainly didn’t so previously to a scale that translated into bodies in seats. Obviously, once the novelty wore off and on-ice performance suffered, the Thrashers’ support waned. The example of Tampa was cited, but that franchise largely floundered until Bill Davidson and later Jeff Vinik brought stable ownership. The franchise suffered miserably under ownership like the Japanese consortium, the inept Arthur Williams (who sold after one season) and Oren Koules (who sold after two).

[@jeremiah_12]

That’s a creative way of asking “Do black folks like hockey?”

[@EPiche09]

Your team sucks, nobody's going. teams good, everybody's going. That would be true in Chicago, Tampa, Arizona, Nashville, Atlanta, Carolina. Why do you think they let Vegas fleece teams at the expansion draft and then circumvent the salary cap two years in a row? Vegas sucks that arena is empty

[@rolandrodriguez1381]

Please don't expand the NHL to Atlanta.

[@iljackb]

Why Atlanta again!? Quebec City should get another team before Atlanta. Why the constant insistence to add teams to the US south?

[@willp.8120]

Atlanta: 6.4 million metro population. Quebec: 840,000 metro population Atlanta: 2,858 square miles of actual developed land (note: not square miles of the entire metro area, rather the amount of land that is developed. This 2,858 square miles represents the fourth largest contiguous developed landmass on Earth). Quebec: 171 square miles of actual developed land. Atlanta is roughly 8 times the population of Quebec and almost 17 times larger by developed land mass. Quebec (entire province. This also includes Montreal, Trois Rivers, etc.) GDP: 504.5 billion (Canadian) which is 374 billion (US) converted. Atlanta Market GDP: (just the market) GDP: 455 billion (US). This converts to 613 billion Canadian. So, Atlanta's metropolitan area GDP is larger than the entire province of Quebec that includes Montreal, Quebec City, and other smaller cities, and Quebec is the second largest province of Canada in population.)

[@augustuscaesar9995]

I don’t think Quebec City is a viable market. The market is too small and a team in Quebec City would have a difficult time keeping players, attracting free agents, and marketing the team in Francophone city. The old Nordiques couldn’t keep Lindros because of Francophone Quebec City

[@uhohhotdog]

Atlanta is big

[@sampicano]

Quebec City would generate more money than Atlanta. Quebec City population - 839,311 (2020) Atlanta population - 6,089,815 (2020) Winnipeg Jets generated more revenue for the NHL than Atlanta... In 2010 the Atlanta Thrashers were valued at $135 million USD Between 2005 to 2010 the Thrashers lost $130 million - $26 million a year in losses In 2011 the Atlanta Thrashers (population 5,729,304 in 2010) relocated to Winnipeg (population 730,018 in 2011). A city with 5 million less people... In 2011 the team value went from Atlanta (135 million) to Winnipeg (164 million) - increase of $29 million in one year In 2012 the team value went from Winnipeg (164 million) to Winnipeg (200 million) - increase of $36 million Between 2011 and 2020 the Winnipeg Jets set the NHL record for most consecutive sellouts...41 games a year for 10 straight years (until covid 19)...that is a record that Atlanta could NEVER accomplish. Atlanta (population of 5.7 million) was loosing $26 million a year Atlanta (THE SAME TEAM) moved to Winnipeg (population 730,000 people) and suddenly the fans started showing up to games - no excuses like in Atlanta and it was the SAME ROSTER - suddenly the teams started generating revenue for the league - and every year the teams valuation increased - all because they relocated to a small Canadian city. Fun Fact: - Quebec City 839,311 (2020) is larger than Winnipeg 834,678 (2020) So if Winnipeg generated WAY more money than Atlanta; it would be reasonable to assume Quebec City which is larger than Winnipeg would ALSO DO BETTER THAN ATLANTA

[@AZLANKHAN003]

Atlanta does not deserve another NHL franchise.

[@willp.8120]

Of course it does. It currently is 1st in MLS attendance, 3rd in MLB attendance, and finished in the top half of attendance last year in the NFL, and currently sells out 99% of its seats in the NBA. Only two other markets with three or more professional teams does as well as Atlanta. There are 23 American markets with three or more major league teams.

[@Hogtownboy1]

Traffic so bad in Atlanta. Getting to that site will be a horror show

[@willp.8120]

Not really. Traffic moves much more quickly up Georgia 400 than it does the downtown connector, off of which where Philips Arena (now State Farm Arena) is located. Plus, more fans live and work in this area than downtown. Alpharetta has a high tech presence, along with many other corporations being located there these days. It's a very wealthy area and a relatively high participation rate for hockey than anywhere else in the Atlanta area, or anywhere else in the southeastern USA.

[@HeritageWealthPlanning]

@@willp.8120could not agree more brother. That site in south forsythe is perfect

[@jacobdye4037]

Most of their fan base will probably live in the northern suburbs.

[@Hogtownboy1]

@@jacobdye4037 ok.

[@HeritageWealthPlanning]

@@jacobdye4037 that's where I live

[@w.l.graves7228]

expansion has to be 4 teams ,,, cause only adding 2 makes 34 teams ,, doesn't work for playoffs

[@GizmoBeach]

No, no, NO. 😠 Carter says he and his group will “use private funding.” They ALWAYS say that, then the cost overruns (which will happen, big ones) will fall on the taxpayers. But worse, he wants to build a place nearly AN HOUR outside of Atlanta. Is he nuts? The Coyotes couldn’t draw in Glendale because it was “too far” from Phoenix’s center…and by “too far,” that meant a 15 minute drive. 🙄 Nope. The Thrashers were terrible, and the original Flames never saw RD-2 of the Playoffs. There’s no market for the NHL in a city that’s 47% African-American, despite the nice metro population. On a list of 10 North American cities looking for an NHL team, Atlanta should be 12th or lower.

[@willp.8120]

Carter's group is only one of two groups. The other, led by Krause Sports Entertainment, has already secured upwards of 40% funding for an arena and entertainment district. It has also been approved by the county. Anson Carter's group, known as Alpharetta Sports Entertainment, has informal public support from the city of Alpharetta government, and they are working with him to potentially redevelop the North Point Mall area for an arena and entertainment district, and they have publicly stated that they will provide some funding, even despite Carter saying it will be a private venture. Third, you know nothing about the Atlanta area if you think this arena is too far away. That area where both arenas are planned is in the heart of the hockey fanbase in the Atlanta area. Downtown Atlanta was nowhere near where the heart of the fanbase is located. Furthermore, where even the Krause location for an arena, known as the Gathering at South Forsyth, is located, it is 27 miles north until you hit the edge of the Atlanta region's developed area. The Alpharetta location, Carter's group plan, is still 34 miles from the edge of the developed area, but is only about 20 miles from downtown Atlanta. This is firmly established in the suburbs as is the other location. You also have to understand the demographics of the Atlanta area. No other metropolitan area in the USA without a current NHL team has a greater population of white people than Atlanta. Whites are the NHL fanbase, as about 98 percent of the fans are white. The Atlanta area has about 300,000 more white people than the Houston area. While the city of Atlanta is 47% black, that represents the small city limits, not the suburbs. Even then, the city limits were once 73% black back in 1990. It has dropped to 47% and continues to drop. The metropolitan area as a whole is only around 35% black. The area where these arena proposals are located is predominately white and is located admist where the hockey leagues are located in the area. The northern suburbs and exurbs of Atlanta have about 3 million white people, a population larger than all of the KC metro. The southern half of the metro area, however, only has about 600,000 white people. These arena proposals are common sense. When the Braves moved to the northern suburbs, attendance increased. Location, location, location.