Brompton conversion to Electric with Swytch kit - was it a good idea? Pt 1 purchase, ride, thoughts

[@oldmanwith]

00:00 Intro - why did I build it? 01:34 The lack of retrofit options from Brompton 02:37 Who are Swytch? How do you buy a kit? How long does it take? 03:50 A bit about the install (more detail to come in another video) 04:38 A basic comparison between the Swytch conversion and the Brompton Electric 06:48 What you get in the kit 07:05 A more detailed comparison between the Swytch conversion and the Brompton Electric 07:56 Which should you choose? Original Brompton Electric or Swytch conversion? Price differences and other things to consider 13:21 Conclusion - what would I buy if I was buying now , knowing what I know

[@radarradario5135]

Converted my 2012 p6 Brompton with a Swytch kit recently. The conversion was easy. Really happy with it. I got the pro max battery plus a spare (as electric batteries go they are very small and light). I seldom need anymore than the level 1 assistance.

[@oldmanwith]

Great to hear 😊 I’ve no experience of the “new” Swytch kit so it’s nice to get someone’s perspective, thanks

[@dhardingham]

An excellent video. Very honest and very open. I had problems installing the swytch kit and their customer service team were fantastic.

[@oldmanwith]

Thank you David

[@daelra]

I have a Swytch kit on my Brompton. The primary thing that swayed me towards the Swytch rather than going for the Brompton Electric was the fact that I could still use the front luggage holder. I need a big front bag and the Electric ones just aren't big enough. Having ridden both, I think the BE is better off the lights and has more control of the speed when peddling but I think the Swytch can get me up those steep hills with a little more ease. I think there's a bit more range in the Pro model of the Swytch too. When you get close to the top speed, the BE starts cutting down the assistance a bit more smoothly than the Swytch but the downside of this is that you feel the need to put a bit more effort in at exactly 15mph on the BE than the Swytch. I'm not too bothered about the controls. I basically have my Swytch in power level 3 of the time and boost it up to 5 if I find myself struggling up a hill which is rare enough that I hardly ever need to do it. Generally speaking, those that cycle up big hills regularly should leave it on high, everyone else leave it somewhere in the middle. There's no real need to fiddle with the controls after that. If I had to start from scratch, I think I would still buy the Brompton + Swytch option over the Brompton Electric. The BE is a nicer experience but for practical reasons (ie I can use whatever bag I like) I would always go for the Swytch kit.

[@oldmanwith]

Do you have the original Swytch or the new recently launched version? I was in an email conversation with a guy who had no end of problems with battery disconnections on his Swytch (similar to my OEM Brompton) The new kit looks to secure the battery way better. On the bag side of it that was also one of my considerations, I can live with the big BE City bag but I do think only having 2 in the range is poor. I carry stuff on the rack which wouldn’t go on the front anyway so I had different requirements. In fairness on your controls comment, I actually hardly ever change the setting, I just like that I can.

[@daelra]

@@oldmanwith I've had my 2nd Gen Swytch (Pro) since Oct 2020 and have had very few issues with it. The controller needed replacing but a replacement was sent to me (3 days from reporting the issue) but other than that it's just been very minor niggles. Certainly no issues with connectors. Just whack it in and go. The battery is still doing the job for distance but I am noticing a little drop in top speed as the battery ages. The motor itself is still perfectly fine, as is the sensor. I do have the opportunity of swapping out the battery pack and mount for the new version which I think I may take them up on once the battery on this one gets soggy enough to notice. Possibly do that on their 2nd run on the new kit.

[@oldmanwith]

@@daelra Got to be fair, sounds good, I’ll see how long my OEM runs before either it dies or I get itchy feet for something new 😁Thanks for all the feedback 👍🏻

[@paulmorehouse9455]

Love the comparison sheet breakdown = solid work!!

[@oldmanwith]

Thanks Paul, it’s not perfect and others have pointed out some matters I missed but it’s a start 😊

[@grahamclamp8688]

Very informative and unbiased comparison

[@oldmanwith]

Thanks Graham, appreciate the feedback 😊

[@grahamclamp8688]

@@oldmanwith . I've just ordered my Swytch kit for my 2007 ML3 Brompton. Good video. I'll watch more

[@oldmanwith]

@@grahamclamp8688 ah I guess that will be the new version Swytch with the more compact battery. Interesting to know how that goes

[@grahamclamp8688]

@@oldmanwith yes it is. I think I may order a spare one just in case I want to do a longer ride. However at age 65 I'm not so sure I'll get much over 20 miles lol

[@oldmanwith]

@@grahamclamp8688 haha well you say that but at also over 65 I can confirm that sometimes 20 miles isn’t quite enough 😁

[@dhardingham]

I also have a Swych kit fitted to a Brompton. It's fantastic. It would be better with a pedal thrust sensor, but the standard kit is very good. Adding a Pro battery makes the kit even better.

[@oldmanwith]

Do you have the original kit David or are you running the new one?

[@phillblake6829]

Nice bike mate the saddle looks boss with the black rails 😎

[@alanlee4561]

Thank you for a very informative and detailed video 🙂

[@oldmanwith]

Thanks Alan, appreciate the comment.

[@gustavbrinkel5489]

Nice video mate

[@oldmanwith]

Thank you 😊 I appreciate the comment

[@ep8029]

Interesting. Thanks. I think there are some reinforced parts on the electric Brompton, such as the front forks. So it might prove more durable with the extra torque from the electric motor.

[@ep8029]

Whoops. I see Ken already beat me to this comment below. I think I read somewhere that the handlebar post might be reinforced too.

[@thorsten9502]

Yeah I think so, too. On Fotos if I compare the ends of the fork between the standard and the electric Brompton, it seems to be thicker, more stable - there where the hub is picked up.

[@oldmanwith]

It’s definitely the case that the forks are thicker, Dr James has some pictures on his review. I felt that the standard Brompton with the Swytch kit but without battery felt lighter than the OEM Brompton Electric without battery so we could assume the OEM version is reinforced in some other places I guess. I’ve not seen any folk complaining about fork failure on Swytch conversions which may mean that Swytch’s adaptor washer does as good a job as the reinforced genuine Brompton forks. However, as well as the increased torque on the dropouts there would also be increased stresses on the brazed joints from the motor pulling the bike forward.

[@daelra]

@@oldmanwith I can understand the torque argument in the forks (which mainly applies to the very ends of the forks). However, there's no way the stress of an electric motor on the rest of the front part of the bike will be more than what you would normally experience from heavy braking. (I can go from 15 to 0mph a hell of a lot quicker than I can go from 0 to 15mph.) I would also suggest the stress involved from riding over potholes and the like may be way in excess of what a motor of that size could deliver.

[@oldmanwith]

Once again I completely agree with you Dael. 👍

[@kentwydell9322]

Apologies if you mentioned these items in the video and I missed them: I suspect that a OEM Brompton electric will hold it's value better than a converted item. The OEM Brompton Electric uses a torque sensor in the bottom bracket as opposed to just a cadence sensor in the Swytch The front fork of the OEM Brompton Electric is strengthened. I assume that is for a reason. I would not like to be the one who finds out why....... The OEM Brompton Electric has a lighting system fitted. I have reservations with the 'crowd fund' business model of Swytch.

[@oldmanwith]

Hi Ken, valid comments. I wasn't sure if there was a difference in the way the Swytch "picked up" versus the OEM Brompton, it seemed like it might be a little less smooth which ties in with your notes on the different sensing systems, I didn't ride it any where near long enough to make a really valid comparison so I left it out. On the forks yes you're right, looking at a review that was on DrJames channel kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmrRdGB3YpWdgrM it looks like the forks on the OEM are different to deal with potential failings in the dropouts (see timepoint 14:50). Swytch add a disk to deal with the torque loading so that may negate it IF that's the only reason. OEM Brompton does indeed have a light, I forgot that and I also forgot that the OEM has a USB charge point. I can see I'll have to add some kind of update. The crowd funding thing is interesting. I was very much put off by it initially and I think it may work against them in that way because it gives the image of a startup where they are actually a trading company with Companies House listing, published accounts etc, I wonder if they used the crowd funding initially as a startup and just found it works for them so they stuck with it. Pure speculation because a financial wizard I'm not

[@rob-c.]

I’m not an engineer and I’m not a bike builder, but I get the impression from Brompton that their bikes are built to be bomb proof. I would assume that the standard non-electric front forks are likely already over-engineered for general everyday use and would therefore stand a good chance of holding up to the extra strain of an OEM motor. Obviously different forces (direction etc) require different engineering, but I’ve seen normal Bromptons ridden in pretty extreme ways without (short-term) issue.

[@daelra]

One of Swytch's selling points (over other kits) is that it's totally non-destructive to the Brompton (No drilling, stretching of forks, widening bolts or whatever). Apart from swapping the front wheel out, you can take the Switch kit off and you're back to a bog-standard Brompton. I would also like to wager that the value of a standard Brompton will keep its value longer than the Electric one. E-bikes are a new technology and when the next generation comes along, the older, less efficient versions will be less interesting for buyers. It's also easier to swap out a kit for next-gen features than get a whole new bike.

[@oldmanwith]

Some really valid points there Dael, I have to say that even though I bought the OEM I fully agree with you.

[@petiteange1971]

Great video ! I have an ordinary 6 speed Brompton which I bought 2 years ago and don't use very much because I find it too hard to ride up hills. I'm seriously considering getting a Swytch kit with the big battery and possibly one or a couple of spare batteries. Can you tell me if the steering of the bike is more difficult with the battery mounted on the handlebars ?

[@oldmanwith]

Thanks for the question Angela. Ok, a couple of things: 1 - The kit I built is the older version with a battery that is bigger than either of the current options. 2 - I built it for a friend and only rode it to test it worked. The one I personally ride is a full Brompton Electric so most of my knowledge comes from that. However, here’s my thoughts: I didn’t find it noticeably different, in fact the only thing I really spotted was that it can be a pain leaning it against something to ‘park’ it because the handlebars want to swing one way or the other. The thing that is noticeable though (and this applies to all front wheel drive bikes) is the ‘pulling from the front’ sensation. It’s no big thing once you’re up and riding but if you’re starting off from stationary and you have the bars pointed left or right, the pull of the front wheel can be a bit unnerving especially if you’re in a higher power setting. It can also skip a bit on slippery surfaces. It’s all easy enough to get used to but it is a different sensation. Outside of all that, the only other thing to consider is the effect on your warranty if yours is only 2 years old. As noted by a commenter earlier today, the Swytch kit will potentially void your warranty. Brompton themselves fit heavier duty forks on the factory model and there are stories peddled (no pun intended) about fork failure on bikes with motor kits added. The Swytch kit tries to address the issue by using a special fit system and in honesty I’ve never seen any evidence of actual failures. If I were buying from scratch now, I’d definitely go Swytch kit and secondhand bike rather than new Brompton own make BUT I’ve spent 35+ years in engineering so none of the scare stories scare me 😊 Good luck!!

[@badripoudel3749]

It is nice I am using it for a month it can fold easily like normal but you have to fit onwards in handlebar (my is s type handle )

[@oldmanwith]

Great! Did you get the new version with the smaller battery?

[@Jones-xx2gc]

Great video. I do like the look of one of these for mine. I may of missed it in the video but what is the capacity of the pro battery please.

[@oldmanwith]

Hi, that’s now become a bit of a complex question…. according to their website there are two battery options (98 Wh and 180 Wh) for the version they currently sell which is different to the one I installed. The one I installed had 180 Wh battery and that version was also available with a 250 Wh battery. They seem to be aiming for lighter weight / lower capacity now. That said, on my own OEM Brompton Electric I rarely use more than about 20% of the capacity in one hit so I guess I can see their reasoning.

[@dolphinlover1691]

Very interesting review. I'm looking at this myself. You are so right about the cost of old Bromptons on eBay 😳 I've research this extensively. I understand that new Brommies can have a 5 year frame warranty. This makes the Swytch conversion Brommie warranty topic a bit more controversial doesn't it? Thank you again for posting 👍🚲

[@oldmanwith]

Hi, there’s as many different viewpoints on the topic as there are Brompton Electric riders I think. Without doubt in contractual terms Brompton could refuse to Honour warranty on something like cracked forks on a converted bike. Whether they would actually refuse is a different matter entirely. Part of that would be down to how the individual dealer reports it to Brompton and then a further part is the customer’s relationship with the dealer. My completely personal view is that the weakest link in all of them, Brompton OEM and conversion is the electrical side of it, motors, controllers etc. There are people who have no issues with the Swytch conversion and others who do, there are people who have no issues with the OEM Brompton and those who do. If secondhand prices ever return to sensible levels I’d love to do a conversion using the newest Swytch kit and really give it some hard work. Problem is by the time I can afford to do that I’ll be physically past capable of it 😂 Thanks for the comment

[@idtubenod]

What's your take between the electric 3 speed and a standard 6 speed brommie? Given you take it around the same route with a few healthy hill climbs.

[@oldmanwith]

Hi, it’s not a comparison I can directly make because mines a 6 speed electric and I never had a Brompton before it. What I will say though is I rode it home with a load of shopping when the motor died and in fairness I found it fairly good going albeit only about 3 miles. It was pretty much all uphill with the load of shopping, the dead motor and the battery and it rode like a “normal” bike. By contrast if I try to ride my Trek EMTB with the battery dead it’s like pedalling through thick mud. A whole lot of effort and not much progress. So in my opinion the Brompton is way better in the scenario of “today I want to ride without electrical assistance”. I wouldn’t even consider that on the Trek but on the Brompton it’s fine. Edit: Sorry, only just noticed your comment is on the Swytch conversion vid. That one’s not mine so I don’t ride it but I would guess the same answer applies

[@idtubenod]

@@oldmanwith thanks for the feedback. No worries on the Swytch...you got it spot on. 👌 Stay safe 🖖

[@andygrace3825]

Great video

[@oldmanwith]

Thanks Andy, I appreciate the comment

[@idtubenod]

😁👍🤙

[@oldmanwith]

Thanks 😊

[@docloco86]

How does it fold?

[@oldmanwith]

I’m assuming you’re asking about it folding with the battery on? In which case it doesn’t. You have to take the battery off (just press a button to unclip). You have to do the same with the OEM Brompton Electric. On the Brompton Electric you can put the battery back on once it’s folded, with the Swytch conversion you cannot do this. Bear in mind there is now a new smaller Swytch conversion so I don’t know about that. Thanks.

[@mdascoota4293]

Brompton remote only works with Iphone though

[@oldmanwith]

Is that correct? I just loaded the Android app on a Samsung I had from work and it seems to connect ok but I’ve not had chance to test ride it yet.

[@kent-haraldjohansen4992]

Prices are way up now. The pre sale is around £800, but what they do not tell you that this is only for battery and motor. Then two moths later you receive an e-mail to complete your order, and with extra extension cables, display and sensors you are up to £1250 ish.. To me this felt like robbery, but what can you do when you already paid the pre order..

[@oldmanwith]

Wow that’s steep! I notice as well that the website today seems to feature the same kit that I fitted, yet when I made the video they were advertising a new model with lighter, slimmer battery and a better method of connecting the battery. Although there is a slogan on the website that says “something new is coming” but that’s it. What are you getting for your £1250? The old model like I fitted or something newer?

[@CrappyProducts]

I think a big point is that the Swytch is significantly lighter than the electric Brompton

[@oldmanwith]

Aaaagh, that’s what I meant to do, weigh it. Got too carried away with getting the video footage before I returned it to it’s owner but yes I’d say it seemed lighter. Battery pack is lighter and I’d assume also the forks

[@richmck007]

Brompton told me that the warranty is null and void if you convert the bike with a Swytch kit. I asked what could possibly go wrong with the bike once converted and they replied that the front fork where there could be issues… I believe they ( Brompton ) have created a policy to corner the market…

[@oldmanwith]

In fairness to Brompton, a couple of things: 1: The front fork in the Brompton Electric is definitely different to the standard. Does it REALLY need to be? Well I’ve never heard on a Swytch kit trashing a standard fork and Swytch do use a method of making sure the axle can’t tear itself out of the dropouts. But it still sows the seed of doubt. Point 2 is that very few manufacturers will warrant a failure on their equipment caused by modifying parts or fitting aftermarket bits. Doesn’t mean you can’t do it and if the bike is out of warranty (as this one was) it’s not really an issue. But yes you are 100% correct in that it also (should) ensure that Brompton retain the E market on their OEM equipment. That’s business I’m afraid.

[@richmck007]

@@oldmanwith Point taken. I’m going to try and invest in one, oneway or another in the automation of e-tech!

[@oldmanwith]

@@richmck007 I genuinely wish the Brompton gave me less issues. The fact it has had issues in and of itself isn’t what irks me but if I compare it with my Trek EMTB that never gives me any problems so I know it’s possible to get the tech to work. The battery disconnection thing is annoying because it’s purely that the mounting isn’t quite good enough. I also had an extended conversation over time with a guy who ran a Swytch conversion and had very similar problems. Mine is now fixed simply by strapping the battery down. The motor failure (and the possibility of a recurrence) is more of a worry to me, my best guess is that the EMTB fares better because of the motor being in the frame and the bike having suspension and fatter tyres. All that said I am now fully sold on the E bike experience and wouldn’t hesitate to get another (even a Brompton) and if Brompton ever develop a motor in frame build I’ll probably be on the wait list

[@richmck007]

@@oldmanwith It’s funny you should mention what you did as i have heard of this problem with the battery connection when using a Brompton in bumpy areas. Apparently, Brompton have addressed this issue by changing or will be changing the adapter which holds the battery in place so that it does not suddenly become disconnected. I am keen to also buy this bike, but the sight of an ugly fanny pack stuck on the front of my bike leaves me thinking that they could have engineered a much cooler and better system for the battery. As for having to remove it when folding the bike, that is one thing which is off putting. I have a 6 speed Black edition which I have tweaked to weigh less than 11,5 kilos but I am not confident that a Swytch wheel and battery placed behind the seat is the way to go… As for e mtb bikes. I have two high end mtb bikes which cost an arm and a leg so not mtb rides can come between me and those! Until I cannot take any more riding. And the Brompton is strictly for work purposes.

[@oldmanwith]

@@richmck007 Hi yes some people with the OEM Brompton have had issues and some with the Swytch conversion have apparently also had similar problems. I’m not a lover of the wheel mounted motors myself but I guess that until motor design reaches almost miniaturisation, trying to incorporate a crank drive motor into the Brompton folding frame would be a real challenge. Interesting that you’ve heard they are trying to change the battery mount, I’d not heard that, they changed the latch clip a few months back, I did a video on the fact that it made mine better but didn’t fix it. Nice work on the weight reduction on yours.