Brompton M Line vs C Line | Will 20inch Wheels and 11 Speeds Make a Difference?

What bike will come out on top! The new Brompton M line or a brand new 2023 Brompton C line.
The results surprised me but here we go...
Want to help me out? Please support me here: bmc.link/thebromptonguy
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @thebromptonguy
The Brompton Guy Releases videos WEEKLY at 2pm UK time.
If you enjoy Brompton content help me climb the KZbin algorithm by liking and and subscribing.
For all business enquires contact: Dave - [e-mail]
Thanks for watching…
Chapters
0:00 Welcome!
1:09 A little more on the bikes
5:47 Timed Straight
7:31 Timed Descent
9:26 Timed Climb
12:32 Timed Descent+Climb
15:21 Timed Long Descent (WET)
17:37 Home Stretch Reflection
18:50 The stats!!
#brompton #foldingbike #thebromptonguy

[@BrownPeterAnthony]

Steve Parry made the sp 1,2,3 models, which had vee brakes and great steerers. H e also did a ti frame 20yrs ago, he is a super frame builder based in the U,S, now we also have great tri folds like 3sixty, mobat and pikes ..

[@TheBromptonGuy]

His tandem Brompton on bumblebee bee yellow is a thing of beauty!! Very talented man and a massive impact on the Brompton community

[@kavanobrien6547]

As usual interesting concept you are showing, your arm fatigue with the C- line is saying to me that the mini P-line handle bars would of improved your ride times especially on the C-line noting with the said handle bars there’s three different areas one can place your hands , one of the positions would of increase your time in the downhill section and one in the uphill section the third is just another option , for those who maybe reading this very long comment hopefully with a whiskey, when I said mini P-line handle bars is because the original ones had a shorter stem to accommodate the P-line handle bars for the folding scenario , if there anyone that’s got or using the mini P-line handle bars would be interested in your thought before I change my C-line medium to the ones mentioned, hope the whiskey was at least a double, until the next whiskey time take care.

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Brilliant comment as always 🤣. I feel I need to get a set to review as many people have consistently been telling me to try them (you obvious included). Also think I'll get a whiskey now 🤔

[@kavanobrien6547]

@@TheBromptonGuy The whiskey is after the ride not before and definitely not during.

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Yeah that seems fair! PS the whiskey last night was good 😊@@kavanobrien6547

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

I have several chainwheels for my front of different sizes for tests and some from titanium for my back, but I haven't changed any as I find the present 6 gear S.A. the least awful. I hadn't met steep hills before I then found out for what use I had my low gears - and had to walk on top! I'm sure You could have done it, but as now 75, and a little "weight challenged" person, I couldn't and you would still have to walk past the several cattle tubes on the way up, and down. But presently my 2019 SuperlightM6LXBrompton has come down to 8,75kilo and still with my mudguards, as a "Rainy Dane"! When the Danish Day of Summer arrives, I hope to be able to take it down to 8,50 kilo, with mudguards, so why the interest for a T-line, if also with mudguards 😄? Finn. Denmark

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Hey Finn. I actually was looking at various third party titanium parts today cause I was looking at getting a seat tube made to size, also interested in a titanium chain ring if possible. When starting my channel I've set myself many goals and part of that is to own all the brompton lines for all sorts of wacky testing but the t line will be my event and race bike. While I have my youth I want to keep entering loads of hard cycling events to show people what these little bikes can do. However I would like to see the speed a t line will do my local loop 🤔

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

@@TheBromptonGuy From Chinese A.E. you are able to buy lighter titanium seat post, also shaped like a Brompton post in the end, for a low risk of theft, and in several colors and - length versions. The ones I have, also one extra light 600mm post with an integrated seat ring on top, and by that not theft proof, are all black though. My presently used is a 535mm black, but with a turned round AceOffix seat clamp, for a little more length but still able to enter my solid German B&W luggage box, if in need of a travel! But sadly my dear wife doesn't allow going to Malta any more, where I would have liked to bring my bike, to be able to reach a little further out, and also to the "Maltese Airplane Museum", which isn't on the ordinary program of interests, from our Danish owned Village in Mellieha. We have a Danish/Faroese Airline flying directly down to Luqa from both Copenhagen and Billund (The LEGO Airport, in a town with hardly enough people for weekly bus!) I also have a, I think 550mm for test, as I by now just pull out the post in full and it sinks during rides, so a little extra length could be fine. Finn. Denmark

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

The Danish owned vacation area in Mellieha is of course free for all to rent a house in, with a Danish Director and Guides, but a Maltese/EU crew for maintaining the area. Originally a combined Project between Danish and Maltese Unions, to create more jobs after the Independence, and designed and placed by a now late Danish Professor: Hans Munk Hansen. Later some extra and not quite as inspired housing has been added on both sides, but still in his, Maltese inspired style, as the original buildings. Today it is to 99% owned by the Danes. HMH also designed the still existing set for the Disney, Popeye Movie, with Robin Williams, while there. It is easily to be found on Google Maps as an area in Mellieha, by the beach, and with a former Crusader Watch Tower on the next hill. Also a not so obvious Bird Protection Area was made by the coast while building the houses. The Maltese have been know to hunt and catch small birds in netting during migrations, with Malta as a stepping stone to Africa, so a small Safe Heaven would be fine. Finn

[@AndrewBartley]

I cycled that very stretch of Penarth road myself last Friday! 😂 great to see my local sights popping up. I did spot the bay barrage on one of your videos too 😊

[@AndrewBartley]

In fact I know the lanes well too!! 😂

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Brillant! I was actually on Penarth road because I was going for a cheeky climb in a place called "Flash Point". I also do some dog walking up at the Cardiff Dog's Home next to the Porsche garage. Yeah I assume you'll notice all the classic spots as they come out.

[@TheBromptonGuy]

These are pretty much my "I need to get out today" loops. Proper nice little loop with loads of different variations.

[@AndrewBartley]

@@TheBromptonGuy I’ll have to give them a whirl too! I am In Thornhill so really close. I commute to Rumney but that’s not as nice a trip over the river 😂

[@davidrowe8747]

Very interesting! I'm struck by the considerable difference in average power output in your data table (208W on the M-Line, compared to 179W on the C-Line). Is this a function of the power meters you used, or due to the extra work needed to drag the heavier M-Line around? Your average heart rate was essentially the same, which tells me the difference in power output was not accurate. (sport scientist here, so am trying to make sense of it ;-) ) Regardless of the physiological data, the subjective experience seemed to favour the M-Line - a more comfortable ride in terms of positional comfort and also in terms of being able to maintain a regular cadence throughout. You could see how much you were having to grind uphill on the C-Line - much lower cadence. Nice video!

[@TheBromptonGuy]

My conclusion was the extra power need to haul the heavier bike, the power meters are Garmin pedals and they tend to be spot on normal (well I believe they are spot on). The wind on the M line run was also double the strength which I also believe made me crank harder! That's what else might have affected these power numbers. Yeah M line was way more comfortable but suppose I could switch all those elements that make it comfortable to the C line. Looking forward to see how this loop does with a P line. Do you reckon that will shave over a minute off the time with the weight benefit?

[@davidrowe8747]

@@TheBromptonGuy Hmmm, the numbers don't add up, though. From a physiological standpoint it's an understandable assumption that riding a heavier bike into a higher headwind would lead to higher average Watts (assuming speed and time to completion were approximately the same). But it is highly, highly unlikely (in fact, physiologically practically impossible) in this scenario to achieve a higher average Watts (208 vs 179, a 16% increase) while maintaining a similar heart rate (167 vs 168 bpm). Basically, if external workload goes up (higher Watts), heart rate also goes up (as it's an indicator of physiological workload). The most plausible explanation is either an error in measurement of Watts (if you used the same power meter pedals for both trials, that's very unlikely), or an error in measurement of heart rate.

[@markhooper5824]

That was interesting mate.👍

[@TheBromptonGuy]

You’ll be seeing more of this style soon! Got to do the P line on the same route now.

[@platypushatstand]

You had to stop the C on that narrow lane to avoid crashing into oncoming traffic and you appeared to be stationery for much more than 10 seconds, as you appeared to be talking to the driver of the yellow AA van? Questions for you: 1) Are the bars on both bikes at the same forward degree of inclination? 2) Are both bars the same, ie width, height etc? 3) Are both saddles the same make and model? 4) Are both saddles in the same position fore and aft? 5) Are both saddles at the same angle (up/down)? 6) Are both saddles on the same mounting system, eg: a Brompton pentaclip? 7) Are you using the same make and model of handlebar grips? Also, as you’re using bar ends on the M you’re putting yourself into a better aerodynamic position than the C and this combined with any difference in the answers to the above questions and the longer wheelbase of the M vs the C are going to disproportionately skew your results. My feeling is you want the M to win vs the C. But which bike feels better to ride?

[@TheBromptonGuy]

Thanks for the questions my friend! To your first point the Garmin stops time when below 10km so didn’t lose much time and in Strava sections the M line was about 42seconds ahead and no didn’t chat with him just had to walk back up to a wider part of the lane. 1 No, the Brompton C Line apart from pedals is setup complete stock out of the box. 2. No, to height but pretty sure width is the same but maybe slight different due to the Ergon grips. 3. No, Standard saddle on C Line and Fizik Evo on M Line 4. The saddles are in very very similar positions 5. Yup same angles to my knowledge 6. Yup both on pentaclips 7. No, as above Ergon gp4 on M Line and standard C Line grips I would completely agree the M Line has MANY little advantages and this video was aimed at it against a completely new stock C line. I most certainly in my heart wanted the M line to destroy the C line however I do have to say the Hub drag from the M line makes it feel really sluggish and heavy so overall I generally preferred the C line and from a day to day I always grab the C line over the M line. Hope that answers your questions friend.

[@HolgerNestmann]

Very nice comparison. Funny you called the c-line „the brompton“ as you made the m-line truly something as it‘s own. I guess some of the findings are not to be accounted for the wheel size. The aweful handlebars and grips can should be swapped out on a c-line and you can get smaller front chainrings, so you have a bike that can climb a bit better. I have a wider handlebar and inner bar ends. I like the latter since, I can still reach the brakes. But I would love to give your m-line a little spin as I am interested if the higher stability comes from the wheelsize. Are you able to take both hands of the handlebars with the 20inchers?

[@TheBromptonGuy]

lol you know when watching it back myself before posting I did think the exact same thing 🤣 Indeed! that is all very true and certainly a thought I had however wanted to keep the C Line as true as possible. If I never put my clip in power meters on I know the time difference would also have increased. That said if I kept my wide tyres on the C line would have smoked the M line. I haven't attempted that but pretty sure it's possible 🤔 will let you know.

[@HolgerNestmann]

@@TheBromptonGuy I am unable to free-hand it on the 16 inches. I crashed once because I wanted to open my jacket. Not my brightest moment. But on 700c its no problem take both hands of the bars

[@TheBromptonGuy]

So I just test it and was ok going over speed bumps but didn't try and take a jacket off which is pretty hard for me at the best of times!@@HolgerNestmann

[@HolgerNestmann]

@@TheBromptonGuy amazing, maybe i'll upgrade a brompton to 20 inchers. thanks for checking