Hong Kong’s precarious future

[@georgelim8746]

Christine Lo presents an unbiased opinion about the HK situation. I have a lot of respect for her. She is smart, articulate and objective. She is trying to find a positive way to resolve the difficult HK situation. If only Carrie Lam has her charisma and her communication skill, maybe the problem can be resolved.

[@kaybee65]

HK people have superiority complex over mainland people and they are frustrated that mainland cities are overtaking HK in economic growth.

[@lx5378]

exactly!

[@sammohung2733]

Yeah, HK in 5 years (not even in 10) will be the 3rd largest city in Greater Bay Aera and lucky to stay in the top 10 cities in China. The entire population can not handle the drop of status mentally.

[@redsalmon9966]

I don't know where did you get that idea. What makes Hongkonger keep going is not about economy but to fight against the CCP's oppression. But seriously, if other mainland cities can overtake Hong Kong in economic growth without the rule of law and free flow of infomation, etc, then go for it. I'm all for it.

[@dragonfly1929]

OH YES///THEY SOUND LIKE WOMEN IN LABOUR,SPECIALLY ,,,THE CHIPMUNK ...JOSHUA WANG ,READING FROM SCRIPTED LECTURES,HIS HANDLERS WRITE FOR HIM !

[@kaybee65]

@@redsalmon9966 I know HK is without rule of law for the last 6 months.

[@seansailBruce]

The US shall also approve the Saudi Human Rights Bill if it's really about human rights.

[@BKLau70]

When damages and violence begins, it has crossed the line and become terrorism.

[@kenc8359]

I wait to see American youngsters invade and vandalise Congress, see what's the US Govt's response. Take over and vandalize a University? Remember Kent State?

[@井盖电焊工-p1s]

Hong Kong mobs are more disgusting than ISIS, and ISIS terrorists at least dare to admit their actions.

[@imdba3685]

@@井盖电焊工-p1s It's because Hong Kong mobs are led by Pompeo CxA, No 1 terr0rrist of he century.

[@kamikaze1888]

HK people protesting through the whole 2019 and zero confirmed death by police. While a handful of people charging into congress hill in the U.S and a poor lady was instantly shot dead. HK should sign a human right bill to ensure Americans live with dignity that they deserve.

[@victorpng45]

HK problems originate from the opium wars of 1842. Now American NGOs are akin to opiums of 1842. There is nothing wrong in implementing extradition bills in HK. It should be a norm in all countries. To oppose it means committing crimes is OK

[@ronvara8703]

She is wise, honest, and fact-based!

[@GC-hj2cl]

She is definitely pro-china or pro-integration. Bravo !

[@mflow502]

She is a very nice lady. She doesn`t speculate anyone in bad way. I respect her.

[@edris47]

NBA and US companies are kissing ASS of criminal regime in China, for them money has higher value than people’s lives and freedom. This is how cooperate America created this monster that, now they are controlling the minds of the capitalists from China.

[@clairew7511]

Great respect to Christine Loh! She is an inspiration, if anyone can help to rebuild the trust between Mainland people and Hong Kong people, it would be someone like her! The conversation happening is Mainland China now, is that the younger generation is Hong Kong is not trying to achieve anything than to build a new Berlin Wall. What they want is a segregation, it is exactly what Christine has been addressed in her talk-- Hong Kong people does not seems to able to reconcile the fact that they are Chinese, and part of PRC. And there is the true risk, if the senior leaders also view them as this, Hong Kong is heading to a dark future, not necessary violent, but just irrelevant.

[@awakening333]

At the end of the day, they will only harm their future and interest the most. They will surely regret it. Now I believed them when they said they are not Chinese. A true Chinese will not forget her root. And generally Chinese are a pragmatic lot. The damage has already been done. Without doubt, their role as a stable and respected financial centre is history now.

[@voiceofchina1788]

@@phsamuelwork I ENJOY THE WALL INSTEAD OF SEE ALL THIS BIASED OUTSIDE

[@elaineg60]

If Ms Loh is unaware; she needs to be aware. And NO, THIS IS NOT "propaganda", but myself, other Americans living in China, other Westerners outside the country and yes, many of my Chinese friends, have proven the following points. I'm a 60-something grandmother who's son has been visiting China for 12 years and who will be moving there next year for work. I am hoping to join him eventually. I'm a former physician who is now disabled and has been doing freelance writing and research since my accident over 10yrs ago. 1. This "leader less" movement not only has leaders, they have been training for these protests for over 2 years, just waiting for a trigger. 2. The main goal of these protests are complete independence from China. Hong Kong is a region IN China, a sovereign country. The immediate goal is provoking Beijing into a confrontation with the West to justify this "New Cold War". 3. This movement was instigated, directed and funded by Western Elite and organizations funded by Western Governments. Please search "Steve Bannon" and Hong Kong. There are 2 videos from May and June of Steve Bannon and the student "leaders", including Joshua "Wong". Bannon assures them of continued funding and supplies, "whatever you need". Steve Bannon on Fox Business last month, not only bragged of his involvement, but also said that a "serious conflict with China would put them back in their place, gain us valuable access to resources, guarantee President Trump his re-election and likely get him his Nobel". He has made many other similar statements to this effect, easily found on KZbin. Another organization involved is NED and the banned cult, Falun Gong. (please search NBC. Com for a recent article stating FG's ultimate goal as regime change and installing their leader as "Emperor". They also plan on destroying the world with nuclear weapons, but I guess Mr Bannon has overlooked that fact in his partnership--which can also be searched, I believe it was a Daily Beast article). The ultimate goal of all of these organizations is regime change in China-something that's not going to happen. Which brings me to my last important point, but I want to make several points. An innocent older man has been KILLED by the protesters, just in the past 2 weeks. Another remains in critical condition from being set on fire. Both were trying to stop vandalism or a blocked highway. Half a dozen police officers, including a neck stabbing, a bitten off ear, sliced off fingers, and burns from gas bombs and molotov cocktails tossed into police stations and groups of police taking a break-remain in the hospital along with dozens of less severely injured, citizens, many beaten with bricks, for either voicing their opposition, speaking Mandarin, refusing to strike, and other "free & democratic" reasons. A German TV DW program did an interview with the spokeswoman of the protesters. I urge everyone to listen to it. It speaks for itself. It was done a little over a week ago. 4, Ms Loh DID mention the young people need to learn more about today's China; I couldn't agree more. Learning their own history might also help since MANY conversations I have had with protestor, they state they want the "complete freedom and democracy we had under British rule". Chinese people, unless a member of the wealthy elite in HK, Or one of the many "mafia-type" gangs, (which, because HK has been known for its being a refuge for criminals, even under British rule, for MANY years, mostly white collar criminals, and people avoiding extradition. It is also an international tax haven and money-laundering center. This is another reason behind the protests as Beijing HAS been pressuring HK to strengthen their laws and regulations. The ultra wealthy making HK a "free financial center" do NOT WANT these changes), Chinese people could not vote or hold any offices until well into the 90's; they were treated as 3rd class citizens-hardly "free" . I have also been told the British police were never violent. Nathan Rich has a video specifically on this lie. 3. OK, as I said, the protesters need to know about today's China.. I and millions of others, feel its time for the US and rest of the world, -(many of whom who are already doing this), STOP the false propaganda and constant lies about China as an oppressive, violent, evil dictatorship. I don't have time to go into each issue, but most of what we are hearing is lies. The UN Put out several white papers earlier this year on china's alleged human rights violations. After 4-5 months of investigations by numerous countries, they concluded the allegations were unfounded and taken out of context. The UN praised China for its humanitarian approach to the millions of Muslim immigrants, radicalization by terrorists from other countries like Syria and Turkey, (which oddly has decided it wants Xinjiang back after hundreds of years), and security measures taken after terrorist attacks in that region causing thousands of deaths. I have several wechat friends in Urumqi, they are Uyghurs, and just last night I was sent a video tour of a so-called "concentration camp", (the same "camp" featured in recent articles and videos and who she has introduced me to American English teachers that have taught there for several years, one of whom is now helping to tutor me in Chinese). Arkand took me to the numerous classrooms, computer labs and women's dorm for those whose families live a distance away from the school. Yes refugees ARE required to take Chinese, English, Chinese culture classes and classes on moderate Islamic teachings. What does the US do with refugees these days again? Immigrants claiming asylum? 🙄. Arkand ended the video with she, her husband & kids playing soccer in a beautiful park on the campus, with other Uyghur families. But, there is MUCH MORE misinformation than just on Xinjiang. See Gweilo60's KZbin for a video on "are we free in China". He's a Canadian who has spent most of the last 17 years in China. It speaks for itself. China today is NOT the China of even 10-15 years ago. Each year, more reforms are passed. No, it's NOT a democracy in the sense most other countries ARE-BUT, their system is obviously working for them. Ms loh obviously understands that today's China is very influenced by its history and culture. In fact, I don't believe you can truly understand today's China WITHOUT knowing something of their history and culture. It's why they are determined to maintain Unity between the 56 ethnic cultures, and 1.4 Billion people. It's also why over 100 million Chinese leave the COUNTRY-AND RETURN. It's why they don't really care about politics, their central Govt has lifted over 800 million out of poverty and had unprecedented progress in almost all areas. They LOVE their leader President Xi. It's also why they have not been involved in ANY foreign conflicts in 70 years, nor do they want to be. No, Mr Chang & Mr Bannon, they have no desire to take over the world, nor are they "spying on everyone" - as confirmed by Apple, Google and international cybersecurity companies. (How about the US, SURELY the US Govt doesn't spy on anyone, right?) The Chinese are focused on themselves and their country. Yes, they ARE trying to show other underdeveloped nations the same economic assistance that enabled them to grow and change. If people REALLY wanted World Peace, and not only to line the pockets of the military industrial complex, (which Eisenhower warned us of in 1959); perhaps we could humble ourselves and learn a few things from China instead of attacking them.

[@ronvara8703]

elaineg60 well explained! You’re telling the truth!

[@elaineg60]

@@ronvara8703 Thanks, sorry it's so long and not exactly proofed. I just wanted to get all my points out and happened to be in a car on my way home from a medical appt. 45min away. I'll try and edit it later. I'm currently putting a more detailed article together; but it seems each time I'm doing final edits, something important happens... And, to be honest, this is what is scaring some of us right now. With the ramped up rhetoric, an increasingly desperate administration with a history of causing crisis as distraction; they are Unstable and unpredictable. And Bannon claims on his podcast he has white house ears during these impeachment proceedings. NOT a good mix.

[@rosebud4387]

Greta summation and comments.

[@rosebud4387]

The China bashing in some western countries is reaching a crescendo.The lies/misinformation are out of control and the people are believing them as there is not an alternate view presented or is allowed to be presented without being shouted down or scorned. Sad But true. Fearmongering is rife as is xenophobia. Time and again its about the Uyghurs who they never really normally give a dam for especially Muslims or the Tibetans, and the "concentration camps in china holding and torturing 1million Uyghurs. Also the removal of organs from Uyghurs etc. Its disturbing that they are perpetuating this nonsense/rubbish.

[@ronvara8703]

@@elaineg60 In the beginning, the US used China to offset the Soviet Union; During the WTO negotiation, the US wanted China's market and money, so China was a friend. Now China will surpass the US, so China is no longer the friend. Then the US began to suppress China's rise, getting hard times for the Chinese government in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Xing Jiang and 5G etc, even trying to overthrowing the Communist ruling party. This is the basic evolution of the relationship between China and the US. Democracy and freedom are just a joke and a pretext.

[@wallylee8470]

She tells the truth without bias... very knowledgeable woman.

[@Jackbyl]

This lady has a powerful mind with so much knowledge and wisdom. Respect!!!

[@pronghornxx]

Should have scheduled this after the HK local elections - would have been a completely different conversation.

[@belfon5855]

She is very very good, calm, illuminating, objective, we need more people like her, she is very smart.

[@ryan69838]

it is rare that American can listen the fact. then what? keep doing anti China...

[@AlexFalkon-n2x]

Why is it become so hard for foreigners to live in China in the last two-three years?

[@mx3270]

@@AlexFalkon-n2x Where did you get this conclusion?

[@calvyncraven1141]

@@mx3270 probably from one or two KZbinrs. I.e lauwei86 and seperntzal

[@mx3270]

Calvyn Craven you know. I'm so curious about that cos there are more and more foreigners around us in China which is rare several years ago. If someone feels hard to live inChina, maybe because he didn't have some good skills to feed himself.

[@AlexFalkon-n2x]

@@mx3270 From KZbinrs who live or lived there before before.

[@laurenceco7154]

Thank you Christine Loh for the additional insightful talk about the Hong Kong problem. However, Christine was probably too diplomatic for not pointing out the interference of outside source in making the friction greater as well as the escalating violence. who were the foreign advisers, financiers & other foreign agents helping organize such a large anti-establishment event in Hong Kong ? It has been very evident that the Western media (from UK, US, Germany & etc.) are mostly pro the rioters / terrorists. It is the opinion that the future of Hong Kong is quite murky after the election turn out. It will be quite likely that the importance of Hong Kong to the Beijing Central Gov't. will wane and the young people will loss their bargaining power for further development of a brighter Hong Kong .

[@jacobdu1215]

so facatual and thoughtful interview. insightful and unbiased. respect to Christine Loh

[@JoeC1688]

Under British rule, there was no democracy what so ever. If you check history, any protest against the Govt. was forced down with beatings and even killings. The British, along with like-minded HK tycoons controlled everything and sucked massive wealth from HK. After 1997, HK being a gateway to China, gave them a much bigger opportunity to control, collect more wealth and exploit the common HK people. With no democracy during the occupation, HK people never had the opportunity to develop free and fair thinking and way of life, or democracy. That's why, the HK govt has been trained to just obey their superiors(controlled by the tycoons interests). So, Carrie Lam was trained to obey the law & superiors, and not look at the actual interest and well being of the common HK people. This is the major loss of support from the HK people. With 70% or more of HK judges and law enforcers being British/foreigners, puts the HK Rule of Law at risk. Protesters are arrested, but judges let them free! Tycoons owns land and control real-estate and major businesses, making life unbearable for the common people. Another big issue is the HK education system has stayed British or under Christian control, making the students and young people easy puppets to western interest groups! I hope the recent election can wake the HK Govt. to put the common people's interest first and clamp down on the tycoons selfish interests! With the help from China, new laws should be set up to force real-estate tycoons and major businesses to set aside at least 40% of their investments or profits for cheap public housing and overall life support for the common people. Also, to maintain the Rule of Law, all protesters who caused harm to people or destroy property must be dealt with the full force of the law! Not let free!

[@yanliu4192]

Very fact based and impartial discussion. Its very well informed and presented. It not only tells truths about HK current problems but also reveals from a distance away about the advancement of the central government in dealing with riots. The world this time sees a wise leadership in mainland China despite the meddling from the west. The 1.4b Chinese people now cherishes unity and peace more than any other times in history. The young people in HK got misled and consumed dramatically but this experience eventually will become a life time lesson. Its time HK people reposition themselves as part of China and not look back at the days they were superior to the mainland people. HK got where it is today is totally based on the setup of profitting from the weak China in the past. Time to re-unify and re-position.

[@jeffmoore9487]

You got it backwards somehow. Hong Kong just showed the world how the little people can make policy - democracy. The protest vote got 17 of 18 open seats and now are a majority. The chance that the democracy movement in China can be walled off from their brethren in Hong Kong is zero unless travel (and the profits derived) is suspended,

[@jeffmoore9487]

@Danny dragon Hong Kong will inspire people round the world, including China. This result (protest - vote) is historic.

[@yanliu4192]

It is okay for a kid to want freedom, but not okay to hurt his mother at the same time suck her. There is a give and take. There is blood line. Drink and eat from mainland and kill mainlanders. Is there a clear line in the division? CIA draws the whole picture!

[@jeffmoore9487]

@@yanliu4192 China (nor the US or any nation) are not mothers. They are run by and for the wealthy. They are nasty and present no decent future for their people. HK is a literate high tech region, not a child. HK has united around democracy, not US of Chinese domination. They have voted for the aims of the protesters. They've won 17 of 18 seats and now are a majority. Why do you not want HK democracy? Why would you not want real democracy for China and America, and for everybody? I live in America. My leader and your leader (if you are Chinese) are "best friends" and tyrants. My job is to bring democracy to America. Yours is to bring democracy to China or where ever you are. Neither of us will decide HK future. That isn't the way forward. HK must and will decide its own future. Democracy is being fought for all over the world. Not US fake democracy, but democracy where the little people make policy. Look at Iraq. They are being killed in the streets but won't give up. They are the future for you and me.

[@yanliu4192]

@@jeffmoore9487 no dude I disagree. You never lived in China where life is better than HK and USA. Iraq? You have to dig into what's under the covers in Iraq to say if they want what you think they want lol.

[@frankwang8551]

this lady has given a very realistic picture about what happened in hong kong.

[@RichardYLoh]

According to the agreement signed between China and U.K. ........ If chaos is uncontrolled, one country two system should be abolished.

[@shshashiekhar]

Two country two system

[@peggy_tan]

@@shshashiekhar Maybe for your country.

[@howardwang3438]

@@shshashiekhar stupid

[@flynntib]

Independency and autonomy should be a disposition in future world. Imperialism and totalitarianism must be a threat to all mankind.

[@janicechan6427]

Face mask...one good example, can you enter a bank with face mask...why the judiciary cannot see the simple point.

[@리주민]

If heater is broke in car, can you drive with one (sock hat with eye and mouth holes)?

[@truthmatters2782]

Not only that. It's like people entering the bank with face masks and robbing and vandalizing and terrorising the customers and than say there are those wearing masks and not doing that so everyone has to right to wear masks inside.

[@janicechan6427]

Judiciary in HK can closed shop...and take your pension and f..... off from hk

[@alanx1522]

Christine Low, re listening to the show. You have such a brilliant mind. Your analysis and your replies to the questions are fair and with such measure and charity. Thank you so much to give a fair perspective about Hong Kong in relation to the mainland China. HK is acity in China, but its no least important than Peijing, Shanghai. .... I hope many young people in HK and including the rioters had the opportunity to listen to you and got something out of this wonderful interview. Thank you for speaking for China and to the opposite sides so all can move on to improve relationships for the chinese people.

[@PoliticalWeekly]

We don't consider ourselves Chinese. Why is this so hard to believe?

[@alanx1522]

Lap Gong Leong SAD. You don’t know what or who you are. That’s really sad. It’s staring right in front of you and you don’t see it. Too bad and best wishes. House of cards.

[@PoliticalWeekly]

Alan X if there’s anything I want anything more than 15 years of unadulterated venom, it’s the prospect of an independent Hong Kong

[@june9241]

Rational, logical, holistic,glad to hear such discussions.

[@edris47]

Show no mercy', says Xi Jinping: leaked documents reveal details of China's Xinjiang detentions and oppression www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/17/show-no-mercy-leaked-documents-reveal-details-of-chinas-mass-xinjiang-detentions?RWRpdG9yaWFsX1VTTW9ybmluZ0JyaWVmaW5nLTE5MTExOA%3D%3D&Email&USMorningBriefing&CMP=usbriefing_email Evil regime led by a killer called Xi.

[@willng247]

This sounds like an ill informed dinner party conversation. Colour revolution? British lead judiciary? NED? CIA? MI5? What planet is this woman on…

[@lob4tt]

This lady is well informed and is actually want to solve the problem. Respect.

[@yuanhaochue2889]

there will not be any fruitful dialogue unless THE TENETS /LOGIC/FRAME WORK of ONE NATION , TWO SYSTEM is understood by the majority Hong Kongers, since 1970s, Hong Kongers often feel superior among Asians and currently they are paranoia about their current in siege by China economic rise and scope for advancement that HKrs felt the "HELPLESSNESS AGGRAVATED BY THE MORAL SUPPORT BY MORE THAN 70% OF HKERS....PLUS INTERNATIONAL WESTERN COLLECTIVE AGENDA TO ENCROACH against CHINA RISE, this HK lady being invited to talk already shows that quietly she is more pro-Western narratives firstly she never make a stand that the tenets of 50 years until 2047, police are legalized rule of law enforcer while and illegal protest is against the rule of law, there must not be any compromise , she never state the international Western interference such as the logic of US passing the Human Rights Bill .... one thing though in view of she being more middle ground exposition, thus would attract more attention from Western audience ...

[@voiceofchina1788]

agreed, dislike her

[@PoliticalWeekly]

What part of "we want to elect our leaders" do you not understand?

[@Peter-sj3zi]

This lady dare not criticize the rioters. She could be killed by rioters.

[@yinsenanhai]

She did call these “protesters” rioters. That’s pretty clear of her opinion

[@r2sj]

Great job and fact based analysis and commentary by this lady. Hongkongers need to either accept they are Chinese or nobody

[@raymondchoon]

Hongkongers are no Chinese because Hongkongers can be from Italy, the US, England, India, Africa, mainland China, etc. Hongkongers are just Hongkongers.

[@apakumqi5734]

@@raymondchoon Good, If what you said is correct, after 2047, We Chinese can send those foreigners back to their own countries.

[@raymondchoon]

@@apakumqi5734 Under one-country-two-systems, Hongkongers rule Hongkonger. China and mainland Chinese shouldn't intervene in Hong Kong affairs.

[@apakumqi5734]

@@raymondchoon You Tell me, What is one country?

[@raymondchoon]

@@apakumqi5734 One country, according to the Basic Law, means that China is responsible for the defense and foreign affairs on behalf of Hong Kong. China is an agent for Hong Kong for those matters. Hong Kong remains its status on the world stage, such as the Olympic team, world soccer tournament, trade status, etc.

[@jamesg3399]

This is the best discussion I have seen since the first day of hongkong protest.

[@jeffmoore9487]

They missed the best though. Hong Kong just showed the world how the little people can make policy - democracy. The protest vote got 17 of 18 open seats and now are a majority.

[@davidwong5197]

@@jeffmoore9487 It will be interesting to see if the rioters continue to trash the city.

[@jeffmoore9487]

@@davidwong5197 What rioters?

[@davidwong5197]

@@jeffmoore9487 The people that killed a 70 yrs old man, set a man on fire, destroy cars, shops and metro, beat up tourists and anyone that disagree with them. Those rioters. Your answer cannot be the government made me do it. Why do you beat up a Japanese tourist because he couldn't understand Cantonese? Maybe they are really terrorist.

[@jeffmoore9487]

​@@davidwong5197 You forgot to tell us what the shortest safest path to democracy is. Until you do, I'll go on believing the protesters did ok. Not great, but ok. So what is the most peaceful path to democracy for Hong Kong so we all can know how to do this better? Terrorists usually disrupt voting, yet the voting in Hong Kong went smooth as glass. How could this be? Maybe voting calms "rioters" and "terrorists" down. Let's put all the issues up for a vote. Maybe that's the safest way forward. You like this idea? Of course you do! Let them hold a referendum on the five issues that the protesters demand and five more from Xi JinPing and Carrie Lam. Let the ballot box rule over a peaceful Hong Kong! Problem solved?

[@edris47]

Criminal regime in China is the greatest threat to freedom and democracy in the world. World must support brave people of Hong Kong. Liberation to Hong Kong, to Uighurs, to Tibetans, to people of china, to Lebanon, Egypt, to Chile, to Russia, to Palestine, and so on, we are all in this together.

[@BillWong]

I don't know why Christine has missed the most important demand that is to setup an independent Commission of Inquiry, which has over 90% support, when she said what the demands of the protestors are. To make Hong Kong under such situation is injustice that is the most important reason.

[@frankieleong7606]

Ms Christine Loh, you are a very knowledgeable, analytical and smart person. Your response to all the questions is very pragmatic. .Hong Kong is very lucky to have you. HK will surely overcome the present crisis and prosper again with you around.

[@derekzhou2397]

Creativity?you mean destroy subways, set shops on fire or seting a live person with different opinions on fire? How dare you call this creativity!

[@sungjohnny3640]

Social equality? which western so called democratic societies have social equality?

[@donnertang9319]

Well, u can say that there isn't equality in anything really. Academical equality? No, you always have people with higher achievements. Economic equality? You always have people born in a more well off family, China or anywhere. The point is, if you have people, you are bound to have inequality. So what is special about social equality? It is more so an idea that everyone should be treated equally by the law. That means they should get the right to vote (political right), the right not to be discriminated (social rights) and the right to not be unjustly persecuted (legal rights) and all of this is part of human rights. No where is perfect, but working towards a society with minimum social equality is definitely preferrable.

[@hohotong4325]

D Trump , it’s a comparative term, not absolute. Your point is vague.

[@stephenchristian5739]

U SIMPLIFY TO SILLINESS USA & most of Western Europe have by far great success in raising the highest % of equality & compared to the previous centuries its not even calculable or even measurable to the massive success of population to poverty in other words U HAVE TDS! MY FRIEND GET ON THE TRUMP TRAIN & ENJOY! & PS. GROW UP

[@bademoxy]

democracy is a term for a voting system.social equality is a term for egalitarianism within a society, which may not have anything to do with elections

[@PeterMsk2023]

The most critical question should have been thought through and answered thoroughly, before Christine Loh's phrases analysis on the Hong Kong relevant issues, namely: Why did such extradition arrangements with China and Taiwan leave blank purposefully in the Sino-British joint declarations in 1984 and, for the past two decades since the hand-over? The most damaging aspects of such an amendment bill are the purposefulness of suppressing and stifling the political expressions and aspirations of the Hong Kong current and future generations, that under the CCP's combination of traditional patriarchal concepts of the dynasty past and dictatorial communist values, in the 21st century of humanity. Frankly speaking, it is the same patriarchal ignorance and naivety of the past, by those to say that young people nowadays lack the knowledge and awareness of individual rights and responsibility and obligation, both politically and socially, because of their younger age. And they should only be acquired and learned in a conventional school, by ignoring the fact that we are in the presence of the influential information internet era of the 21st-century.

[@SS-tr6ei]

Martin Lee, a famous HK lawyer and the Sino British Joint Declaration and Basic Law drafting team member reiterated that the extradiction bill is deliberately being left out due to the huge differences in judicial system and towards human rights between HK and China. UN and FREE world also forbid people to be sent from a place such as HK that has no death sentence to China whose conviction and death sentence rate is close to 100%

[@jonathanbeh1]

LeaderLess? If you look at the rioters, they all properly trained and well organised. If no leaders, this could not be happen. The rioter's leaders actually had objectives from start. Furthermore, the funds actually not from public, but from three sources i.e. Western, Asian and Internal.

[@sjwu0602]

The hong kong election shows that Hong Kong do have democracy and two systems work well

[@derekzhou2397]

how about the "one country"?

[@TiHui]

this is a rational speaker we should welcome. open your mind and rein your prejudice everything could be discussed and resolved amicably.

[@awakening333]

O.k. Christine, you have my nomination to be CE of HK after hearing your sensible analysis.

[@belfon5855]

Oh chow Hundred percent w/you.

[@earthsun8339]

👍👏👏👏Dr. Christine Loh, Kung-wai SBS, OBE, JP (陸恭蕙) , is a former Hong Kong Legislative Councillor, founder and CEO of Civic Exchange, founder of the Citizens Party, and founder of Hong Kong Human Rights Monitor. From 2012 to 2017, she was Under Secretary for the Environment in the government of CY Leung.

[@longjeanc5380]

HK there has many criminal offenders that has escape the prosecutions that why they were afraid of extradition bill. Communist party they are the one revolution and fought the country back from min Chu ( the piggy tail ethnic group), they also invaded China and took control of China and lost the opiums wars to British than the weak dynasty handed over HK to British for compensation. Communist party has made well compromise to British during the hand over. However Communist party don't have to honour the treaty with British if thing get worst, after all the Min Chu they were invaded China from the Ming dynasty (Ming dynasty is Han ethnic group) China belong to Han ethnic group. Let put this way if some one was rod your home and occupy for many Century than sell to some one else. The buyer is aware that it a Theft property. Does it a legitimate transaction ?..? Oh cause not . There for what are your sits there gossip other country affair, Just mind your own business. When America states we're united, China not even bother your affair. After all you also invaded Natives America and took their lands and claims it was colonisation periods. GARBAGE . You guy Were invaded the weakness countries because you guy stole the black powder recepy from China and re engineer to gun powder. Now pretend to piece keeper talking and interfering other country affair to stop/slow their rising once again. Look like America is playing the chicken games.

[@yopyop3241]

Your mistake is that you fail to understand that you are dealing with people and cultures, not with property. The British did horrible things to the Chinese people in the 19th century. But the people who did those horrible things are all dead. How much punishment should fall on their descendants who obviously weren't even born when those atrocities were committed? And no matter how much retribution should fall on the descendants of the British perpetrators, that has little to do with the vast majority of the HK people who are not descended from Brits. If anything, the HK people are far more likely to be descended from the people that the Brits abused than your average Chinese person. Now the descendants of the Chinese who only suffered peripherally are going to repress the descendants of the direct victims in the name of that suffering? That only compounds the offense!

[@stevelep449]

Now is the time to have program to prepare HKers to accept 1 country 1system by year 2047 and be proud of a progressive territory of China.

[@jackmoon4975]

Law in order how can you point to police, the is carring out their duty and enforcement if the protester not over limit what can they do

[@hohotong4325]

Jack Moon , carrying out the duty? They just follow orders from Communist China with the help of Chinese soldiers/police disguised as Hong Kong police as evidenced by their accents, together with gangsters to beat and even kill the young protesters and ordinary people. So we HK people think that it is the police’s excessive and brutal violence which flare up the situations. These young protesters, many of them are university students (unlike China or USA, only about 20% of high school students are admitted to the universities per year), sacrifice their bright futures or even lives for democracy and social justice of Hong Kong. Seems like you don’t know the Hong Kong situation that much.

[@lx5378]

This is a professional, rational and objective analysis, thumbs up!

[@joanneyuen]

This lady is speaking for the Hong Kong Government! Without the support of the general public, the protest would have had died down long time ago. The result of the election speaks for itself. The general public is very upset about the excessive force and brutality by the Hong Kong police who was backed by the government. Even peaceful protests are bullied by the Hong Kong Police. Hong Kong Police now acts as a tool solely to suppress the general public who disagree with the government. Hong Kongers are now fighting for their freedom and their basic human right!

[@cbcluckyii4042]

Kudos. A fair assessment of the situation for a change

[@GC-hj2cl]

Yes, especially when she said the protestors are indeed engaging in riots, but the policemen are only doing a difficult job ditto Carrier Lam.

[@vnevarez100]

Is there a democracy in US? Or is it a representative democracy?

[@nikkie1724]

Nearly all modern Western-style democracies are types of representative democracies. Difference being, the people get to choose their government by voting for a political party for a set term.

[@Jackbyl]

Latest news, some students interrupted a football game between Harvard and Yale a few days ago to protest against what Harvard has been doing about climate change. There was no violence, yet 42 students were arrested.

[@vnevarez100]

@@Jackbyl why? What rational? Over reactive authorities..

[@Jackbyl]

@@vnevarez100 Yup. And they say the police in HK are abusing their power!

[@vnevarez100]

@@Jackbyl Us US looks across the oceans to blame others especially Russia... .

[@livinginmelbourne9056]

I actully liked the dialog. It is the conversation that Hong Kong needs.

[@markmurison8639]

you would cos theres no one from the mainland

[@frankieleung2215]

She is not a lawyer. She has got a law degree. Her book on communism in H K is rather superficial.

[@jeffmoore9487]

Ordinarily, communications between Beijing and Hong Kong are conducted through a Chinese government body: the Liaison Office of the Central People’s Government in Hong Kong. The Liaison Office is housed in a Hong Kong skyscraper stacked with surveillance cameras, ringed by steel barricades and topped by a reinforced glass globe The people in the globe haven't said a word in public in days.

[@Harthorn]

There is nothing to say, because that is Chinese way, when have nothing can say, don't say, when have chance to blame attack then strike. Simple. Why so silent now, because they didn't expect the pro-democracy faction to win, they were overconfident with their red education, media control etc. They forgot, HK people were raised not from downtrodden, beaten peasants who had no choice but to follow. HK people were raised closer to a western society, not so easily intimidated and fooled, and willing to take their fate into their own hands. This was unexpected and wasn't recognized by CCP in BJ. This is stark contrast and difference between the differences in ideology and life attitude is now very obvious to see, not the same narrative and that CCP have been pushing on mainland to create drones who avoid political debate/commentary. In other words, mainland Chinese are trained from birth and education to avoid these topics and let the "big boys" make decisions for them. Why? If you didn't listen, you would be intimidated or crushed, and since you were born into mostly poorer families, they are more easily controlled by this method.

[@jeffmoore9487]

@@Harthorn Very impressive analysis! Thank you. I don't know culture but I am so inspired by the protesters and people of Hong Kong. When the British "give" Hong Kong to China, it seems like Hong Kong is a child bride with no words. Then they not only have words but shop keepers, businessmen, the poor, all support students demanding democracy who confront China's paid police. Holy Cow! People around aren't thinking about Hong Kong much, but I couldn't stop thinking I know that China will bask Hong Kong in social media. I love to argue. I've spent the last weeks promoting democracy to Chinese internet trolls. It' is fun for me. It is impossible to argue nicely against democracy. When Hong Kong votes all but 1 of the Chinese clones out of the council and the protesters win a big majority - the argument becomes like I'm a Judge telling off a nasty criminal. I've known for most of my life - since Martin Luther King, Vietnam, and Malcom X that America must go through the same process. Americans will either directly confront the power of the few with all the money or America will go like Germany in the 1930's. Hong Kong, Sudan, Bolivia, Egypt, Tunisia, are all in front of Americans because they fight for democracy against terrible police. In America the control is police for sure, but very effective media too.

[@francoisehembert3243]

Very informative discussion! Thank you for posting. Greetings from Belgium.

[@frankwang8551]

this reflects the ugliness of the competitive democracy. can the opposing parties sit down peacefully to solve practical problems?

[@AlexFalkon-n2x]

It is deeply rooted in to the European civilization. It was like that since ancient Greece and Rome (especially during the time of republic, when Rome was in the state of constant political crisis and when their culture was developed), and since then Europeans always looked back on that times as on cultural standard, on role model. It shaped all European culture. And that how the modern world was build. Without it we would sit on the harvest and play on balalaikas, instead of sitting in front of the computer on the weekend.

[@리주민]

@@AlexFalkon-n2x capitalism had more to do with standards of living, but democracy with rule of law did allow it to prosper. A good example of modern democracies are Sweden, Switzerland, and New Zealand. Definitely a lot better than ancient democratic ancestor, just as we are smarter and more efficient than our ancestors.

[@jimmychoo1661]

I kind of like the way she explain to her audience without upsetting them. I have invested a 1.5 hours listening to this dialogue. Unlike some speakers who love to use misleading sensitive sentences to beat around the bush to confuse listeners. She is precise and concise with all the questions thrown at her.

[@leecheelek]

Christine Loh has managed to articulate well issues of Hong Kongers, Govt, and her perceived opinions of what the Central Govt. of China is trying to do and understand. When we talk about resolving current problems and issues, it still does not resolve the bigger issue of what happens after 2047 irrespective of whatever solutions are found and to be worked out. What happens after 2047, is talking about the future which many HK people wants to know with a clear answer from mainland China and when it is made known by both sides, then the issues of resolving the current social and economic issues which affects everyone can be placed on a clearer footing. The mainland Chinese Govt. has perhaps not been more clear and loud in projecting the future plans for HK which were planned put never really publiced to HK and the whole world. Isn't the future of HK after 2047, the whole crux of the dilemma facing the HK people and the HK Govt.? Why keep something in limbo until 2047 with the current problematic crisis when it is the real issue everyone wants to know?

[@yopyop3241]

The problem for right now is that the HK government is entirely unresponsive to the HK people. 2047 is definitely a looming issue, but it's going to be looming for more than a quarter century. For right now, the fact that the Chief Executive and Legislative Council are dismissive of the will of the HK people and the fact that the HK police are so willing to resort to brutality are the issues of the day.

[@NangongReng1973]

If there is no sponsor from ‘ charitable ‘ organizations, will these HK rioters could have the wherewithal to carry out such mass riot for so long? Who pay for the equipment, the helmets , the weapons?

[@RSydneyChan]

She has forgotten that Hong Kong people is a drop in the bucket, 7.5 million people compare with 1.4 billion people. So, with democracy, that number is overwhelmingly overshadowed in favor towards China. She is thinking what is good for 7,5 million people as against the good for 1.4 billion people. And she failed to mention all the foreign covert instigation and support for the riots and terrorism.

[@quovadis3460]

In my opinion the young rebels of HK are saying: We want to be taken care of. As people of Hong Kong we want to live our life the way we want.(Have all the goodies the world has to offer) The bill for this choice is to be paid by Mainland China. If you agree to our demand, we cause no more trouble. If you do not agree we can not say what will happen.

[@Truth433]

Hong Kong has no political elites, during the British Colony times, all elites of Hong Kong are not allow in Politics, they have all gone into business, which is why the business community is strong. In Singapore, all the elites were taken into Govt. lesser in the business field

[@johnnyli6944]

I don't see why the bill is illegitimate. Without it you can kill someone in Taiwan or China or similar countries without the related treaty and remain trouble free if you can get back to HK.

[@DavidHHermanson]

I recognise that Ms. Low is in a difficult position, but as the overwhelmingly Yellow victory shows, what is at stake here is democracy. Why would the people fear extradition? Because they fear the Central government's use of this instrument for political purposes. The declaration that only the Standing Committee of the People's National Congress can rule with finality upon the constitutionality HK law fills my HK friends with dread, as it is a clear indication that Beijing, as much as it likes to benefit from Hong Kong's economic prowess, wants to end the HK experiment in Chinese democracy. Beijing seems repulsed by democracy, as if to views it as no more than the codification of disorder. Disorder remains the great fear of nearly every Chinese government. This can be seen in the historical forms which succeeded one after another through the 20th Century, or today's idealisation in entertainment and the media of those seen as having united China in the past. The real gift that Hong Kong has to offer China is not access to finance or its ties to other economies, but instead the experience of multi-party democracy as a unifying force in society. But this is precisely what Beijing, at least in terms of its current leadership, rejects. It views even the limited degree of democracy available to the people of Hong Kong as a dangerous contagion, that threatens the spread of a political disease.

[@bigapplechinglish]

thx, David...now let's see how many here would get it !!!

[@bigapplechinglish]

@Yvonne Cheung thx, Connie...reality is tough...will wait to see what will be...

[@bigapplechinglish]

@Yvonne Cheung take good care and be well...challenging time for all...

[@bigapplechinglish]

@Yvonne Cheung sorry, Yvonne...my error... I meant you, Yvonne...

[@atamo4323]

@Yvonne Cheung The main reason they fail in democracy is the lazy HK government. They treat HK as ATM and hoping to just cash out at retirement, like the Brits. The protesters should do more than marches and rioting. They should talk to the government repeatedly and constructively and see what they can offer, Trump. Just saying 5 demands, deal or no deal is poor negotiation skill, more like blackmailing. Even Trump has his deal in phases.

[@stevelep449]

Even if the local district council is control by the pro democratic parties ，mainland China still have to maintain a way for security of their territory sovereignty since the mentality of HKers are not tuned to the system of mainland China ye t .

[@px4301]

“仇恨”教育让台独港独变成了法西斯 年轻港独呈现出一个非常显著特点：对大陆人施暴无罪恶感。 80年前，纳粹法西斯屠杀无辜犹太人时，也同样无罪恶感。 施暴杀人是一件不容易的事情。 施暴杀人无罪恶感是一件更不容易的事情。 是什么让年轻港独成为杀人无罪恶感的纳粹法西斯？ 香港和台湾年轻人与大陆人没太多的接触， 现在这些人对大陆的仇恨来源于后天的仇恨教育和培养。 民运和国外势力没办法用“民主”来让香港年轻人反大陆， 于是，他们首先利用“反普通话”形成香港年轻人与大陆的隔阂， 然后用“大陆人素质低”、“到处拉屎”这些谎言来形成对大陆人的歧视， 并通过“牛奶”、“水货”、“大陆人买房”等逐渐发展对大陆人的反感。 最后，将一切社会问题归咎到大陆人身上。 一旦有事，民运和国外势力就能够利用这些歧视和反感，迅速在香港形成对大陆的仇视。 台湾的情况也完全类似。 台独分子知道“台湾民族”和“民主”这种东西无法实现台独。 于是，他们从“台湾人讲台语”开始，形成台湾年轻人与大陆的隔阂。 台独分子用“大陆人素质低”等谎言形成台湾人对大陆人的歧视与反感，最终发展到仇 恨。 台独分子同样将台湾社会的一切问题归咎到大陆。 20多年前，台湾自认“中国人”的比例高达90%以上，发展到现在低于5%。 香港问题，土共要负主要责任。 当年推行普通话教育时，一遇到反对，土共就马上退缩，种下了祸根。 对大陆人的“仇恨”最终将引来大陆人的反击，形成大陆人对台独和港独的“反仇恨”。 讽刺的是，土共一直打压大陆人的这种“反仇恨”。 这次香港动乱出现的针对大陆人的法西斯暴力，必将让大陆人的“反仇恨”越来越无法 控制。 如果台湾和香港足够大或者距离大陆足够远，港独和台独的仇恨教育确实能够实现其独 立目标。 但是，现实很残酷，台湾和香港不够大、而且就在大陆眼皮底下。 在这两种仇恨对抗的情况下，出现了非常奇怪的现象： 一方面，台独和港独闹得越凶，共产党在大陆的地位越稳，民运人士搞乱大陆的目标越 遥远； 另一方面，台独和港独闹得越凶，大陆人的反仇恨越深。 美帝和民运现在最大的痛苦在于：港乱和台独无法引起大陆的动乱，反而增强了大陆的 稳定和共产党的合法性。 台独和港独是通过“仇恨”教育搞起来的，必将被其引起的“反仇恨”消灭。 靠“仇恨”教育起家的港独和台独是自寻死路。 可怕的事，美国的政治家也开始搞同样的仇恨教育。 可以预见，西方社会对华人的暴力事件将越来越多，华人们自求多福吧。 =============== 以上为转发。

[@paulmatters2641]

Alleged murder. The poor girl killed herself and then jumped into the boyfriend's suitcase. He then took it out of the hotel. He cannot be extradited to Taiwan from HK.

[@GeraldBrownBritsinCreteNet]

Bold effort of Christine. But appears not to be 100 per cent behind the democratic movement's direction. She forgets most people in Hong Kong are there because someone in their family escaped the communist rulers since 1949.

[@twohorse123]

The new phenomenon mentioned in 1.01 is orchestrated, not coincidences

[@alvita9656]

之前的美國對香港的政策是真的為了香港？是為了和中國做生意更方便好嗎？香港是受益沒錯，中國也受益也沒錯。但是前提別忘記了，美國也因此受益，美國的最基本目的是為了自己最大受益，中國香港受益損害不了他的利益。以前美國也這麼幫助過日本。但等到了日本第二的時候，美國就開始打擊日本了。 現在的情況也是如此，美國不是為了幫助香港抗議者，是為了逼迫北京更加開放大陸的金融，所以香港的作用沒有了。美國才不管你香港的死活，是為了打開中國的金融大門。依舊是為了美國的最大利益。 這位女學者，雖然想用非常公正客觀的角度去談論香港問題，但是想問幾個問題： 1，香港政府如何能答應五大訴求？那不是違背了法治麼？ 2，警察在執行任務過程中，這位女士說有存在暴力。那為什麼隻字不提抗議的激進份子對異見分子的殘忍手段（圍毆至命危，澆汽油火燒活人，對警察割喉，天橋上直接砸東西到下面過往車輛）。這種只提一方卻故意忽視另一遍的講法是否存在主觀誤導？ 3，12，13歲的小朋友，與家長意見不同，那麼是誰對他們灌輸這種政治觀念？是誰把他們當作政治工具推上街頭？通常不是父母吵架時候，小孩在場都會停止吵架的嗎？為什麼這種政治活動，他們會在一線成為主力？中小學生是否適合討論政治？在心智分析能力還不完全成熟的少年時期，是否應該以學習為重？ 4，大學學校保護的暴徒還是真的學生？每次在學校鬧事的到底是不是真的都是學生？保護黑衣人卻犧牲想安靜讀書學生的權利，拒絕警察進入，這種權利是誰賦予校長的？是否有人在學校裡做了本不應該做的慫恿和教唆？ 5，法院對示威者對違法處理為什麼這麼慢？對示威者的異見分子的判刑卻超級的快？司法本不應該有政治立場，香港的司法獨立與香港政府和香港立法院，但是能獨立於中國整個司法體系之外嗎？尤其是大法官有外國國籍。想獨立於中國整個司法體系之外又不積極參與配合政府平息暴亂為主要目的的行為，間接造成法治無效的影響，又是何解？

[@a1142730]

A balanced view on the current situation in HK.

[@jeffmoore9487]

grateful cai: Nope. Hong Kong just showed the world how the little people can make policy - democracy. The protest vote got 17 of 18 open seats and now are a majority.

[@a1142730]

@@jeffmoore9487 so let's see how this democracy fixes their problems then. I think they might just lose their future by winning the vote.

[@jeffmoore9487]

@@a1142730 America did ok after it began voting. Hong Kong is more literate and highly experienced in finance and tech than the US was. Why are you worried? They'll vote extremely well i suspect. They won so far without even having leaders. Pretty cool!

[@a1142730]

@@jeffmoore9487 yes, the vote went well. but I am afraid the result is a sign of general perception in HK which is rejecting everything from mainland. from what I can see HK's future relies on how well it integrates with mainland not how well democracy works. so HK's future seems pretty bleak. hope I was wrong... only time can tell.

[@jeffmoore9487]

@@a1142730 Do you want to integrate into China? Aren't you viewing HK as some kind of commodity or child bride. Why should England "give" HK "back" to China? That's absurd. The people of Hong Kong have chosen democracy. "Integrating" into another country is a way of not saying colony. Colony with 0 democracy. HK is awake. It has it's own personality that has courageously defied its "inevitable" "return". What ever China and HK are, They are not alike. You can't return to some long lost childhood. There is no nation on earth preparing for global warming and an end to war and competition. There is no nation worth "integrating" into as we look to the future. We'll either invent a cooperative economy or accept suicide in from current economy.

[@anthonyliang300]

it's easier for the spoiled cockroaches to blame and frame China than to discipline themselves to become competent and competitive.

[@RockBrentwood]

Oh, look! You just earned another 50 cents! Pay him Beijing.

[@AyY846]

I think she has been very balanced and quite informative, insightful, but at the same time, very restrained with her responses to questions, maybe it’s because she is facing an American audience

[@jmok94747842]

In an otherwise generally fair presentation of Hong Kong's predicament, I'm surprised that Christine Loh has not once touched upon the one universal demand of the protesters, and that is the establishment of a commission of inquiry into the causes of the whole movement and the alleged police brutality, in either her opening speech or her subsequent answers to questions. She had many chances to name the demands of the protesters, but kept missing mentioning this very basic and universal demand. I wonder why. A second observation: Christine kept emphasizing the needs for the Hong Kong people, the young ones included, to consider themselves being part of China, which I concur, but without once addressed the widespread distrust of Hong Kongers towards China's judicial system, as well as the many brutal aspects of an authoritarian regime. I think this is the root cause of everything that is happening in Hong Kong today. Should China be an open and fair society, with her prospering economy and bright future, who wouldn't want to be a part of it?

[@MrTankarl]

Ah Mok, what are the many brutal aspects of an authoritarian regime? Are you talking about authoritarian regimes in general or are you referring indirectly to China? China has historically been "authoritarian", i.e., it was not democratic, unlike western societies. Authoritarian practice in China for millenia has been accompanied by concern for the welfare of the people. The emperor and his ministers knew that they would lose the mandate of heaven if the people were not taken care of. The rulers would act harshly if the people are oppressed because their hold on power was predicated upon the people being contented with their lot - enough food to eat, a house to shelter the people from the inclemencies of nature. Authorianism has served China well over the millenia and will continue to do so.

[@jmok94747842]

@@MrTankarl You’re right, to the extent that the authoritarians happen to be the good ones, who care about the people and are mindful of their ruling legitimacy. But there have been more bad ones in history who care about neither. Some are overthrown in bloody revolts. Democracy, though not as efficient a political system to get things done as a centralized, benevolent dictatorship, nevertheless affords the change of governments in an orderly fashion, and renders legitimacy through popular participation and consent to be governed. The West does not have a monopoly on democracy. It’s true that one may trace budding democracy to the Athenians, but throughout history, there have not been less despots in the West than in the East, China included. After all, we also have our 孟子, who in about 300 B.C., has already related the idea of 民為貴，社稷次之，君為輕。I think in general we tend to agree more than we disagree, except perhaps in your concluding statement: You may not believe in change. I do.

[@jeffmoore9487]

Notice that Christine's whole synopsis of the reason for protest revolved around the extradition issue. Every country sets up extradition agreements. It isn't a big deal. The people of Hong Kong have long been anxious of facing China's leadership because of what China has become. The Chinese security regime, media blackouts, the lack of any meaningful democracy, bullying internally and externally, treatment of minorities, and a 100 other significant circumstances of being a superpower would vex anyone anywhere. She doesn't mention that the British were "giving Hong Kong back to China" as if Hong Kong were a commodity without its own sensibility. The protests brought up the already acute inequality that leaves poor Hong Kongers unable to house themselves or find a living wage, etc........ How would the existing problems within Hong Kong combine with absorption into a military state? Didn't the businesses and better off folks in Hong Kong support and help the poor protesters? Extradition wasn't THE issue. The time had come to face China's desire to bring Hong Kong into the unaccountable nightmare that animates the two modern superpowers. She and the media imagine Hong Kong was focused on extradition issues. That's not even plausible. Neither she nor the American media are talking about Independence for Hong Kong. Successes like the vote and the sacrifices of 6 months of very determined and bloody protest has made the topic inevitable. Will Hong Kong relax peacefully into a Chinese colony? Now that the protesters got 95% of the open seats in council, and a whopping majority, what is the most important topic for a people determined to have democracy? Like a tiger being coaxed into a cage who has discovered the vulnerability of her handlers, the first topic for immediate action will be the cage itself whether we're ready to talk about it or not. Democracy and becoming a colony of China are as incompatible as fire and ice. Christine Loh will likely object just as much to the "process" Hong Kong takes as she has to the "riots". Her interest is to keep things like they "are".

[@apakumqi5734]

Good, the long time protest is the excuse for independence!

[@MiB-]

One Concussion : H.Ker Unable to RUN Hong-Kong ‼️

[@naper806]

Anyone does not see that there is zero chance for Chinese people to tolerate HK independence is not qualified to talk about China.

[@yeswecanhk]

naper806 NO one is talking about independent in Hong Kong.

[@lalachencst]

@@yeswecanhk really! Let's see what will be the next demand after the so-called 5 demands.

[@NoBody-oq8nn]

@@lalachencst so are you trying to accuse those people of something the majority of them are not seeking?

[@yeswecanhk]

christine cst 5 demands hasn’t changed

[@jeffmoore9487]

naper806: The protest (democracy0 vote got 17 of 18 open seats and now are a majority. Xi JinPing and Carrie Lam have become very quiet. The method for achieving further progress is now clear. There is Zero chance that the people of China (and their desire for democracy) can be walled off from all of this. Get Qualified!

[@yuen0404]

I think the legislators have to do something, regardless of their political backgrounds, yellow or blue. They should find exits for the standoff. They should at least force the government to come up with a compromised plan.

[@agentbella0788]

No one is mentioning anyone of them or their business... And the talk is obvious... Btw... If it's Racist and jealousy... Throw back...

[@oneone9884]

Lou’s ability to articulate matters and walk a thin line demonstrates one root cause of the issue facing China. I don’t think she used the term CCP or communist party once was telling. One country = one governing body, i.e the CCP. Recognize it was the student body of the early 1900’s that ushered in the communist party ruling today. And it will be the student body that moves the country to true multi-governing (ruling) system.

[@cujoemblakka1041]

Hong Kong has being replicated in Shanghai and Shenzhen, only the stock market left to be taken.

[@bademoxy]

Shanghai and Shenzhen still depends on western markets.

[@kuttalavenkatraman1806]

This is from India.Please warn Citizens of HONGKONG that a terrible massacre will happen in hongkong by chinese army.If no precaution is taken many innocent citizens will be killed.The worst period between Dember 13 to January end . In the last century one english general dyer killed many innocent indians in a placecalled Jalianwala bag in Punjab India at the city of Amritsar. This is a significant forecast so please pass the message to citizens of Hongkong so that at least some people will be sved from the massacre by Chinese ARMY.

[@yellowbird1170]

No mention of NED and other American involvement? This is totally bias discussion. Total BS

[@ps3301]

if she is the expert of this issue, the future is doomed.

[@billing3609]

That's as good information report in HK newspapers except "apple newspaper" but rather "a mix of netural majority newspapers." HK should consider to have freedom dividends/UBI proposed by US presidential candidate Andrew Yang paid by sales tax or VAT. With more mainland people move to HK where the locals see their welfare and jobs opportunities are diminishing. The young ones feel the future as no way out. The root problem is that rich is getting richer and poor is getting poorer. Most families members stay in the same living quarters as moving out is not an option in terms of affordability and availability. The real estate tycoon should give back some of their fortune. We need solutions to the root problem instead of ignoring the less fortunate half of the population.

[@HeresMyView]

It ain't gonna happen under capitalism. Why should the tycoon landowners share economic prosperity. They can dominate the student/kids in politics and economic sector. Maximum profits is the prime objective. The HK election want freedom for capitalism. The tycoons fund the politicians for election, surely they expect politicians to return the favors. Free competition.

[@shmeckle666]

If these riots were occurring in the US at the same fashion and length as in HK, US law enforcement would have already started shooting, breathing and killing and breaking up with ruthless and violent extreme prejudice. HK par enforcement has shown profound restraint. And if the same situation was occurring in the US. Many Americans would be cheering for them to be stomped, shot and put down, run over them if they block streets, etc., they’d encourage violence against protesters “exercising their rights”. The mainlands justification for the extradition bill is completely rational and justified-as justified and rational as any other State to State extradition policy. Or, the mainland could just kidnap them? HKs have become spoiled from the actual freedom and separate economic and political systems they actually have-and have been coopted into believing is not the reality of HK. Pitiful.

[@danielxu1389]

Agreed, let have them migrated to USA and show us how to demonstrate in front of the police here by throwing stones and Molotov cocktails . you will see Tian-An-Men massacre western style.

[@samly7871]

Freedom more important than sec

[@vincenthiew3048]

Moving up the corporate leader is the same around the world. One must have the same vision with the stakeholders, and trusted by them. Is these not the same corporate practice?

[@BY-sf6dn]

HK might be not replace by any mainland city, but its edge will easily replaced by other international cities. R.I.P HK

[@chestertonlewis2867]

How can she skip the major marker- 7.21?!?! The protesters escalated violence only after 7.21 when the polices worked hand in hand with the local gangsters to beat up and abused civilians inside MTR! Help, where have you been?!?!

[@Fendy1]

45:00 Hong Kong: "Hey Beijing, we have the impression you want to snuff us out. Is that true?" Beijing: " ... opinions or questions will not be tolerated. You will know the answer sooner or later. That's our business."

[@KA_-ww2eh]

always wonder if there are advisers in government like these figures.

[@atamo4323]

@Kirara Asuka No, which is so so so so so unfortunate

[@ps5home]

Finally someone who aspires to find some middle ground looking forward.

[@steveleu38]

Smart lady and unbiased!

[@rebeccachan3405]

How disingenuous. How can you talk about the terrorism in Hong Kong with out talking about the US Empire's role in the violence.

[@bademoxy]

then maybe if Trump cuts Chinese /US trade , you'll then understand WHY the US has a right to choose who they open trade with .

[@abcdene5453]

dialogue? with mobs? are you crazy? i dont see Any future of HK if all hk people think in this way

[@thecomprador]

abcde ne looks like the “mob” won the elections today.

[@abcdene5453]

@@thecomprador Reallly? Ok,the results reflected HK people's intelligence.... and all World knew that now. I think it is good.

[@wingyanchong2915]

With due respect, I agree in part with what she said about the situation in HK. But to be fair, she hasn't factored in some more fundamental constraints that China has unreasonably imposed on Hong Kong (which are indeed the root causes for the now deteriorating relationship between Hk people and the Chinese government). The legal system, for example, is one of which i think she willfully omitted when talking about the situation in HK. The National People's Congress Standing Committee (NPCSC, which is the legislature in China) arbitrarily interfered with the rulings by HK's independent judiciary on a number of occasions e.g. duly elected lawmakers were disqualified after the NPCSC forced our Court to accept their version of interpretation on certain clauses and articles contained in the Basic Law. Another example, despite the Basic Law guarantees HKers a genuine universal suffrage, the NPCSC, years ago, unilaterally announced that universal suffrage would come only with a condition that candidates running for election are first screened by a 1200-people election committee (which is largely comprised of pro-Beijing members). Of coz, I agree the current institutional design determines that Hong Kongers need to pursue democratization within the framework of One Country Two Systems, but very often, you'd realise that it (perhaps always) is the Chinese CCP government who refuses to honor the promise of giving HKers freedom and autonomy to practise a different system (namely, the capitalist system, and legal system) in the beginning.

[@tclinn2909]

Is this a good time to speculate on HK real estate?

[@BKLau70]

Kids were brought out to "protest" throwing petrol bomb ... Despicable, shameful, trash ...

[@tinafisher1246]

I’m disappointed while I go on listening! Christine do you seriously believe that speaking better putonghua in China means that the HongKong young can fair better in a SOE? Please read more about communism and CCP before you make such a comment!

[@paultcmak]

Just speaking Putonghua itself is not enough. You completely missed the point. You have to be GOOD. I am a Hong Kong person who lived and did business on China for almost 20 years. I have seen many Hong Kongers who have found success. Nobody said it is easy, and life is not Disneyland, but you won't succeed if you don't try.

[@KT-vs6cy]

What changed is 2 million mainlander came and settled in hk...

[@idontbelieve9024]

Just let the riots people do it, after they'd done it, they will know what is good, what is bad.

[@shanincoffer6455]

Yeah either God will take care of it or China will rape it.

[@dragonfly1929]

How can you let mentally defective/radicalized/ignorant youth/TO BE BLINDED/BY US.CONGRESS SUPPORT/THE US.CONSULATE FUNDS./color revolution schools/CIA..assistance ..nothing will come out of looking for outside ,the west for izy/solutions..CHINA is the only hope of HONG KONG,IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO HATE CHINA /SO FANATICALLY ,WILL TAKE YOU NOWHERE ..WHY SHOULD CHINA HELP YOU ,WHEN YOU HATE CHINA SO MUCH //WITHOUT CHINA HELP HONG KONG IS NOTHING ,NO FUTER ///

[@fanmatisse3024]

It’s a shame that this so-called scholar Loh, who claimed the protests in Hong Kong have got more violent, and she even mentioned the raids of the universities. We have to ask why the universities became what she said, ‘a war zone’ if there were no police raids. It’s the PLA-disguised-as-HK-riot-Police who raided the universities first without proper warrants for arrests. If the police attacked civilians with heavy weapons, who arrested students for no legal grounds, are they sitting there to suffer and accept?? This lady sat in a foreign land safely without any concrete evidence saying what she claimed. Just show us some evidence why the protests escalated. The protesters started with peaceful 1 million-2 million demonstrations, and then people were beaten, jailed and treated inhumanly. They demand an independent investigation committee into the police brutality but nothing comes out of Hong Kong government. What do you expect the Hong Kongers do to protect themselves? This is a disguised as an academic, neutral discussion forum but actually acting as a mouthpiece for CCP, China.