The worst moves in Street Fighter 6

I'll be honest here the ranking order ended up being completely incoherent but I stand by the lineup in general.
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[@malemailmanman]

as they say in gief circles, "If you squint hard enough, tundra storms starts to look like OD amnesia"

[@kobold7964]

You'd need to look Chinese in order to get Tundra Storm and OD Amnesia confused lol

[@Inabathtubuv]

​@@kobold7964thank god I'm chinese

[@magusomnius3201]

I main Ed to counter tundra storm

[@shaunmcisaac782]

If you play modern anyone, there's a decent chance that the relevant normals TS would have countered are now gone. It's really bizarre

[@daeryk6424]

LOL

[@HellecticMojo]

Elena is so boned

[@kennykrool74]

Based Ed mains

[@pepeyuqui2428]

Poor elena

[@ashlikeadragon]

wow broski how did you know i love a numbered list

[@zackswitch9656]

British

[@TortoiseMaximus]

@@zackswitch9656 but it's a list not a queue

[@iDrKx]

I mean you do have Ichiban as pfp

[@shyco321utube]

A list without numbers is like a car without wheels

[@kyrie6910]

a GOOD numbered list

[@itstomis]

"In order to make this video go viral, I have organized my thoughts into an internet-friendly numbered list"

[@baldwhimsicott798]

Tundra storm in the bison matchup is hilarious though

[@Raxyz_0]

One of my friends is a Gief main. He keeps trying to use that on me, but the problem is that if I do nothing it's the easiest sHP punish ever. Good for the lulz, but if you think a scissors is coming, DI is probably a safer bet (and whiffs faster too).

[@servebotfrank4082]

Another weird oddity with Tundra Storm is that they buffed it this season to work on some throw invul kicks like Guile's little upside down kick (6HP I think) but only at close range where Guile is already punishable. At max range Tundra Storm will activate and whiff so Guile is only -1. Another funny interaction is that Chun Li's drive reversal is a kick, but because she does two kicks her 2nd one invuls through Gief's grab and punish counters him.

[@FlynnRausch]

Drive reversal is so silly and unpredictable.

[@SimoneBellomonte]

💀

[@jpVari]

Tundra storm gonna destroy Elena though

[@HawtDawg420]

Hah! Truuuue

[@toosquare]

At least in previous games, most of her stuff hits too low

[@brutus9929]

The one niche use of Gief Lvl 2's Forward Input I found is against Rashid Lvl 2. The forward version moves you and Rashid far away from the tornado while the other versions will leave him closer to it.

[@iamfiefo]

I guess it also leaves them in the corner if you do the move when the opponent already has his back to the wall?

[@LakeEarth]

​@@iamfiefoyou can do far better stuff with the juggle version if your opponent is cornered

[@Catslug]

I love numbered lists almost as much as I love tier lists. Waiter, more slop pleas!

[@Ajani413]

Broskis tier list videos are the best. Hes amazing at explaining complicated frame data while giving the proper context to understand the point he is trying to make. One of the best SF6 content creators by far

[@gamecube_xeno]

Ok so the thing about the Marisa charged heavy kick safe jump stuff What's really nice is that being +18 on block lets you frame trap with charged back heavy punch, which is frame 20. If you hit charged back heavy punch you get ridiculous damage and either kill or setup for more oki, if it's blocked, you get another frame trap with a second charged back heavy, or an uncharged back heavy. Charged back heavy also auto-shimmys throws, but keeps you in command grab distance, and does really good drive gauge damage. It's a really advantageous situation for her, multiple frame traps that can be looped by mixing charged and uncharged back heavy, amazing reward on hit, threaten burnout because of drive gauge damage, and threaten command grab. Marisa does have a worse move imo tho, 6MP -> HK TC. This shit can...uh...cancel into level 2 or 3 o guess? I literally have no use for it outside of that

[@nairdacnalbel]

i actually didn't know about that tc

[@DarshiaCallis]

There is actually a niche use case for the 6MP->HK TC. You can do it out of drive rush combo's to cancel into any super. You can even level 1 off the TC(delay it slightly with a partial charge) and it combos. For example Marisa's HK punish counter juggle into DR 6HK,HK DR lk,Heavu Dimacaerus can be followed with another DR into 6MP->HK TC and you can cancel into any super for only 3 bars of Drive(and 4456 damage if you combo into level 1). Which is useful to know when you don't have 4+bars to burn on a full combo dump.

[@gamecube_xeno]

@@DarshiaCallis that's actually interesting, didn't know that. Would you say it's better than what I had listed? I haven't seen this ever, so I really don't know

[@odonramon]

IMO they should buff charged aerial moves on hit to make the enemy roll, like OD Phalanx does.

[@gamecube_xeno]

@@odonramon maybe on CH or PC, make them slow fall back

[@dectilon]

The cancel on Manon's spin is pretty rancid.

[@meatwadisgod]

Yeah I only ever see high level players like Randumb pepper it in for a reset, or Idom as, like, a stun taunt. I'd almost rather they got rid of it and gave her something else instead.

[@kinoleogeo7998]

It needs to feel like longer projectile and upper body invulnerability or straight up invincible with OD. (Lower body included)

[@GarrettComics]

I was stunned that Mason's spin to evade a projectile and it's "faint" weren't on the list.

[@Harrytmik]

Manon is just sad, she feels like an unfinished character.

[@HellecticMojo]

The thing that bothers me most about this game is how so many "anti x" or "x invul" moves are horrendous at dealing with "x" Anti airs that lose to jump ins, projectile invul moves that barely cross projectiles.

[@arsonne]

Thank you for covering Marisa. Her charged air normals were supposed to be some really nice buff, but it's actually awful and they also needlessly nerfed other parts of her kit even though she was winning precisely zero events.

[@HellecticMojo]

They doubled down on how linear she is by upping damage and gutting everything else

[@cocoz1034]

I kinda like how the idea of Tundra Storm. Like it's bad, but it has such niche uses that getting a kill off a hard read is super satisfying. I think it's good to have some moves like that, it kinda fleshes out the characterization in the game

[@megapussi]

Yeah I agree. I appreciate this video and the info it gives, but also im perfectly okay with the existance of bad moves in fighting games. The worse issue with something like lily's target combo isnt just that its bad, but its boring.

[@charleskuhns6042]

Zangief would literally be a better character without tundra storm because in an intense match you can accidentally press down down and heavy kick trying to punish someone in footsies and instead get blown up. Those aren’t just my words, most Zangief players agree it’s so bad that it’s a buff to remove it.

[@Hurtdeer]

@@charleskuhns6042 in sfv it was worse, it applied to the punch button and i heard reports of people flubbing their spds into this move

[@leonfrancis3418]

Do you remember in MVCU when Wolverine got a new move to Nerf imprecise inputs? I think that was the intent of this move.

[@abysschef5078]

@@charleskuhns6042trying to get lvl1 after helltab I often tundra storm…

[@FayeOkay]

kimberly's double spray can has one actual niche not covered here, which is optimised punish routes such as after a stun or after like jumping zangief level 3! you get double spraycan > 2HP 236MP into max damage. but since it spends all your resources it really better be the final round and ideally it's gonna make you kill - broski's right it's definitely an extremely situational move lol

[@Zykles]

There's also setups where you can land DIs that have to be parried. 1 hit from the DI + 2 cans means they can't DI back or Kim gets to combo them after. It's a knowledge check

[@ejprince]

​@Zykles I learned that from your vid you dropped a while back! I use it pretty regularly nd it works well

[@Gbtx6]

@@Zykles was about to comment on this exact same thing, but of course, my crayon eating brother bested me at it 💓

[@gwen9939]

@@Zykles I love that setup. It's very gimmicky and generally just not very good, but it works decently well against players who have their counter-DIs locked down so you're basically punishing them for having good reactions. It will work exactly once and it's very funny when it does.

[@Spabobin]

Double spraycan can be used for slightly stronger stun combos to secure a kill, and in DI setups where the opponent can't counter-DI due to the double hit (but it's easy to predict that if you hear the double spraycan voice line)

[@Dalkaen]

Yeah, I was going to say this. Stun combos are the only time I ever use double spraycan.

[@NRobbi42]

Yeah, Kimberly's "up" follow-up after 6HK is the only truly useless move in the game.

[@user-mc5pl6xk9x]

For Cammy's target combo, the buffs were really useful. You can use it as a knowledge check and for a mixup on knockdown. -On block, do HP, HK, cancel the first kick into divekick and you're 0 on block (your opponent can jab you out of the first kick. If he's late or pushes any other button, he'll get counterhit. Also if your opponent mashes after the divekick, use OD divekick and you'll be +2 on block). -On hit, you can: >Go for M Spiral Arrow and you can go for meaty H Hooligan command grab or into feint and go for a jab or a throw. >Do a M Hooligan into a meaty overhead, M Hooligan auto-timed sweep (+3 on block, it goes so low that some invincible reversals will whiff), H Hooligan auto-timed cross-up low, H Hooligan cross-up divekick, charged H Hooligan/ delayed OD Hooligan command grab. You can do a huge combo after all follow-ups except the sweeps. After sweep, you can do H DP, M Spiral Arrow, lvl1 or lvl3 (M Spiral Arrow will not land if you do Hooligan sweep in neutral, it has to hit meaty). Overall, the changes to her target combo were great. Cammy is way less linear than what she was, she finally has mixups and not just basic strike/throw (even grapplers have overheads and she used to not have one that is useful), spamming H spin knuckle for easy plus frames is way harder now, but I like the change, since it makes both Cammy and her opponent think way more before doing something and getting a H spin knuckle Punish Counter into combo feels earned.

[@ValdiviaHDS1]

Another thing against Marissa's charged air normals: They are a lot easier to perfect parry when they are doing a safe jump. In a safe jump scenario, the usual mix is either jump button or jump empty throw to bait a parry. If you see the charged normal you can just attempt the PP without having to deal with the empty throw.

[@AsAboveSoBelow-g7d]

Marisa can manually time her charge jumping buttons to end right before she hits the ground so you have to watch out forbthat against a good marisa if they know you want to perfect parry them

[@akuma9046]

if you charged her buttons early you can actually make it whiff on purpose to bait out PP + broski didn't mention that you can do charged bHP as a frame trap after charged air heavy buttons, it takes a good chunk of drive meter as well if the opponent decided to just block the whole thing

[@luigiwiiUU]

nah you can feint it

[@nickthegun]

Tundra Storms main utility is its psychic damage

[@khdo12346]

You forgot E.Honda's Down Down Punch. That's alright, everyone did.

[@BronzeAgePepper]

it'd be more usable without the terrible and awkward input. for self-buffing moves, counters, Kimberly's spray cans, and even Chun's pseudo DP, it makes sense, but for something like the clap or Zangief's stomps, it makes the move a lot worse just by adding more of an execution barrier. I think that might just ironically be a result of wanting it usable in both Classic and Modern controls without overlapping too many command normal inputs. Like just imagine if you had to input forward-forward+KK just to do Ken's command dash, good Ken players might still do it consistently but you'd see way less applications for it outside of the same old DR combos because of how much easier it is to mess up and harder to use in neutral and other situations it is.

[@Balbik21959]

I feel like zangief's smetana dropkick should also be included because it's only rational usage is a punish counter in the corner into SA3 in a situation when you can't use drive meter and you dont care about your oki (so mostly when you are sure that you will kill your opponent). Otherwise there are always gonna be more optimal options.

[@Stealphie]

You forgot Marisa's up neutral jump charged fierce, which i didn't know existed until like a few months ago

[@TyroneRussell-qd8no]

I wish you could do that move jumping forward

[@snackerfork]

You mean Caelum Jump? That has a lot of uses, you can fuck up people's whole day with it if they do something that goes under her neutral jump (which got easier in S2 for things like the Honda MU since he stops under you). It does a shitload of damage off just a neutral jump with no meter which will condition opponents not to use options she can punish with it

[@Stealphie]

@@snackerfork i specified the charged version, which also does the same knockdown from her other charged jump heavies. it's like those moves with even less utility

[@MortsyFGC]

I'm glad Manon's 3HK isn't on the list, cause I think it's got some pretty sweet niche uses and I'm really hoping it gets some buffs in the future!

[@BenderRodriguez762]

I used to use it to side swap after a perfect parry. Iirc she gets to dash up and get oki if they're in the corner

[@un1d]

Tundra storm is even more useless than you described: it is a frame slower than SPD, which means that if there is a gap that large you might as well use spd for higher damage and more screenspace. However, there is a legitimate usecase at lower levels against a specific type of player: a bison that spams scissors predictably. At lower levels there are a lot of bisons who scissors, back up and as soon as they’re in medium scissors range they’ll scissor again. To call this out most characters will try to use pre-emptive DI, but the Bison player is usually looking out for that and it’s usually not fast enough, leaving you open for a counter. Tundrastorm is much more consistent at stopping this, because it has a million active frames (which makes predicting scissors way easier) and bisons are usually surprised by it making them unable to counter if you do miss. Since this move is so rarely used a lot of people underestimate the amount of active frames and will try to punish it with scissors, hit it too early, and get countered anyways. The mental damage that the move does is also incredible, I swear people play significantly less agressive and whenever they get hit by Tundra. At actual high level though I see absolutely zero use cases for tundra storm, besides maybe an extremely risky callout to a very pokey Juri, but you would do that mostly for mental damage.

[@Ashen-Crow]

I'd argue that tundra storm is even worse in this game since you have the options of parry and DI.

[@DanteMasaru]

Great analysis as always, and I mostly enjoy the delivery on a lot of the commentary. It's often quite chuckle-worthy. As for the Tundra Storm, I think I've been on the receiving end of that once in SFVI so far...and I suspect my opponent did it on accident.

[@HaYHaYHaYHaYHaYHaY]

If i remember correctly, If Zangief counters Rashid's level 2 super, only the forward variant of SA2 can let Zangief get throught the following tornado. The jack hammer or backward versions will both cause him to get up within tornado range.

[@EMPER0RC0W]

Kimberly's double can is great to add damage to corner can setups. So its pretty useful for kill combos. Its also useful as an anti- counter DI setup..Because they register as 2 hits, add your DI in and you get a guaranteed launch into shenanigans. 😊

[@ZachHenke]

Honestly I have to disagree with the idea of Marisa's charged jump normals being some of the worst moves in the game. I do wish the reward on hit were better, but the reward on block is, in fact, much higher than a normal safe jump. Even if you go for the same sequence it has the advantage of being a true block string afterwards so the drive damage is guaranteed. I have a video on my channel detailing the use of her charged jump normals in safe jumps if anyone is interested.

[@BahumatZero]

I use your s2 j2HP safejump setups all the time! Great videos for us Marisa players

[@ZachHenke]

@@BahumatZero Cool! Thanks for engaging with it!

[@LuxZoltan]

I still think Jamie back heavy punch target combo its worst since it doesn't even combo without counter and isn't special or super cancelable and also needs three drinks

[@weihfnoinwdvo]

Facts

[@Gonnluv]

It works as an auto-shimmy and deals solid damage, and since it's a target combo it can "frametrap" opponents that try to press a button during it (aside of DI and reversals, I guess). Plus it looks cool. ...but that's for the version when Jamie has 3 drinks. If we're talking about Jamie's 6HP when he only has 2 or less drinks, then yeah, it's borderline useless.

[@zackswitch9656]

@@Gonnluvhe means the target combo part, back heavy punch itself is useful. But the followup hardly.

[@clockworkserpent]

Back HP can be used to punish counter CR. LP spam after plus frames/drive rush. It's a risky auto shimmy and even worse when below drink 3. But the base back punch can go into the LP target combo on punish counter and that can go into various options

[@Zolwiol]

Hit 1 and 2 are super cancellable

[@mangowett9967]

not only is this entertaining its informative! Thanks Broski

[@aggserp4340]

I honestly feel like Gief's dropkick (I think it's 3HK) deserves a honorable mention, that move is useless except for picking up punishes in the corner and even then it competes with several other options and is extremely unsafe. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use that move intentionally.

[@thatcomona]

I've had so many thoughts on buffing Tundra Storm, from as major as giving it multiple versions that counter different types of kicks and moves to as minor as simply being able to end the move at any time with 15-20f of end lag. Even something sort of in the middle, like clapping his hands out of it a'la Honda. It's very funny to me that Capcom has decided "none of the above, this is a funny, excess move that you use specifically for fun" and on Gief I think that's perfect.

[@Secarstra777]

I just love a countdown yes I love the slop more slop please

[@killercore007]

The one thing lily's target combo has is that it's a giant frame trap that tends to catch people way more that it should. On the topic of oki, it actually does have kind of good oki in the corner.

[@stilmaho]

I don't understand why Gief lvl2 back throw is useful when Jack Hammer also sideswitches and deals more damage

[@Dresfvae]

So you can put opponents in the corner

[@toberone5158]

There's more range, it's for when your somewhat near the center of the stage but not quite. If your literally in the the corner though then yea, jackhammers better.

[@nalrobin]

It's probably not as bad as any of these, but I'd like to mention light Yoga Blast, a move that is completely pointless as it is harder to combo into, smaller, does less damage than, as worse oki than, and does not offer a juggle in comparison to the heavy version. it's faster, but it's still outclassed as the difference doesn't matter for comboes and it's still probably worse than any of his other anti-air options.

[@insomniacnerd5592]

Maybe they can introduce some sort of unique effect if Gief specifically uses his lvl 2’s forward version when he’s cornered the opponent? Could be something cool, like he picks them and slams them against the wall for extra damage, I dunno. Would need extra animation work there, but yeah.

[@PillzmansFox]

Easy, that version of gief's lvl 2 is to counter projectiles while the enemy is in the corner and you either 1. Are in burnout 2. Will go into burnout if you did the full spin combo. Jackhammer and the hold back still puts yourself in the corner and full spins does less damage if you don't have the resources.

[@Mr-Domino]

Right, Jackhammer always side switches. The left/right options allow you to sacrifice 100 damage and oki to prevent putting yourself in the corner.

[@oolongpantsu3437]

Kimberlys double cans has some uses in the corner too. There is a setup that gimps the opponents attempt to defend a DI with their own DI with double cans and i think you can use double cans as well for max damage dizzy combos.

[@victorcha666]

What's this freaky ahh chat at the beginning?

[@toxic2yrold]

LMAO 😂

[@El-Burrito]

Love it when the chat gets a bit freaky

[@DouglasBurton]

I feel like Tundra Storm was put there just to catch Marisa's spartan kick. Maybe it'll get more use when Elena joins.

[@yarrun]

The double spray can does actually have one use case. If both you and the opponent are in the yellow and burnt out, with neither of you in the corner, double spray cans can serve as area denial, fouling up the opponent's ability to approach or attempt to zone you out and giving you a chance to get in. If you're lucky and the opponent panics, it might just finish them off. But in most cases, you can do the same with the normal spray can, so it's really a desperation move.

[@blaqnycvids5959]

Lily 6HP has one use. After a 360 when the opponent is cornered, you can drive rush -> 6HP. It keeps her full momentum and travels really far due to 6HP already having a lot of forward momentum. It's not all that plus though, but it is a consistent way to close the distance after 360 with a meaty button. You can also fake a meaty with it too and bait wakeup PP.

[@matteb859]

Honda's clap is so bad it didnt even make the list since he forgot it exists. Its worse than tundra storm

[@BronzeAgePepper]

it's good for combos off lights into M Hands, has some nice frame advantage if done meaty, and can deal with fireballs in burnout. But in every one of these cases, the input makes it incredibly awkward to use, the first case is the only one that's really helpful and even then I mess it up sometimes. Only leverless players will probably get it more consistently. I wish they'd just make it one down input and two or three punch buttons, it can even only come out when done within a few frames of a neutral stick input, so you're less likely to accidentally get a crouching normal. or better yet, just three punch buttons at any time on the ground. it's just his SFV V-Skill 1 after all.

[@Joseponypants]

Kimberly uses double spray can for her max damage stun combo. Basically the only use case other than covering a teleport approach in neutral.

[@nebbiez]

Prior to the wakeup drive reversal update, Kimberly could use the double bomb as a guaranteed anti-DI setup in the corner. If they had no super stocked, it was a guaranteed unblockable that beat wakeup DI. Now you can just wakeup drive reversal to get out of it, so it is a pretty worthless move now.

[@BlitzWhat]

Lily target combo may be awful, but you would be surprised how many people just eat the second or third hit if you throw it out only once or twice a set.

[@fRikimaru1974]

Tundra storm is useless most of the time, but it is cool 🤣🤣 And remember that in SFV was effective only against mid kicks, not high ones. This version works against some specials like flash kick if I'm not wrong.

[@sleepyzeph]

tundra storm is objectively very very funny though. i honestly think it's fine, i wish niche bad moves were more common. like, obviously don't design a character around a central gameplan involving a bad move, but just have it as a little thing on the side that's funny to use.

[@johngleeman8347]

Capcom. It's okay to not lose your minds trying to make Gief's counter "realistic.' Make it work on all standing strikes and not recover for a full century. Counters are already quite difficult to use. It's not going to suddenly make Gief win EVO (the greatest possible tragedy). XD

[@SuperLuigiKart64]

Literally the whole reason they made Tundra Storm was for Zangief to use one of the developers' favorite wrestling moves: the Dragon Leg Whip. That's all they're going to use it for: to give a little love for a very specific and impractical wrestling spot.

[@BIONICTHUMB]

So a friend of mine and I were talking about tundra storm the other day after we tried a gimmick match of only tundra storms and spds vs Ken medium kicks and sprinting kicks. We came to the conclusion that for the risk really needs to reward you more, but extra damage would feel awful to be on the receiving end of, so instead we theorized that making the move either end very close together (no more than Giefs forward dash) or alternatively making it ridiculously plus on hit (about +30) would actually make the move actually worth going for. Another idea was to simply let it have an input to switch sides as well, but we liked the other change a bit more.

[@laku-tikku554]

Best use i have had with tundra storm was DP callouts against Juri Coomers and Guiles specifically to make the point that im sick of it

[@MarcTheDingle]

Marisa's charged jumping heavies actually have a lot of sauce behind them now as a safejump! +18 in the corner gives her a 2f gap for a charged b.hp which is a really strong frame trap with her, but it also gives a big mixup with ambiguous charging. Most people see the charging heavy and attempt to perfect parry on wakeup, so with ambiguous charge timing you can react to a parry while being safe and command grab on reaction.

[@necromancer0616]

@Broski, I think they could buff Tu7ndra Storm by making it counter mid and low kicks as well as give it say a 5 frame start up and add 50% to the damage.

[@wittledragon1314]

The one niche thing that kims double spray cans is used for is the throw the double spray cans and do drive impact. since if they drive impact back, they lose the exchange because of the double spray cans plus the drive impact hit will be 3 hits. If its round 3 and you have two cans and want to finish the round its a good way to do it without the other person stopping you. obviously they can super and all that as well, but we are talking about what its used for in some cases.

[@oblivionfade]

They could make Gief's counter useful if the reward was awesome, like if it left him advantage right in front of the opponent's face for some ridiculous oki... That'd be a high risk/high reward thing

[@Hurtdeer]

its funny how exponentially better tundra storm would be if they made it an anti-horizontal punch move. it wouldn't be great but it'd stop a considerably higher amount of pokes and openers people actually want to go for. i have to assume that someone on the team wanted a move specifically for ultimate psychological damage reads and nothing else, or is a huge wrestling fan (i like the reference to the niche move too), or both

[@nickkiller-0710]

If Gief could Tundra Storm those big straights like Ken's st HP it could actually be a pretty strong move. If it worked on specials it would be busted tho, jist imagine countering Gladius or Ed's charged HP om reaction.

[@Dr.Faustus.]

Tundra storm on drive reversal is funny cause of how cool it looks but you can just spd

[@shinygekkouga52]

Lily feels like an unplayable SFV character that would be in a Big Yellow vid

[@chrismarsh4575]

Juri been real quiet since Tundra Storm dropped

[@jesperpersson465]

One more thing about TS, against Jamie, Chun-li, and Cammy it also works against their DPs. So if those 3 characters try to go for a reversal or drive reversal against a blocked button into drive reversal Gief can call both possibilities out with one move. Still not very good tho since he obviously dies on whiff.

[@un1d]

Giefs level 2 while holding back is also pretty niche: since it does less damage than jackhammer which already sideswitches, its only use is if you’re close to but not in the corner and want to put your opponent all the way in the corner

[@vitorferreira3553]

It throw the opponent further into the corner if. your back (giefs back) isnt direct in the corner but its near it you can corner the opponent pretty easily

[@un1d]

@@vitorferreira3553 Yes that's what I said. It's just that Broski implied that it's necessary to sideswitch at all, and you'll be in the corner a lot more than near it.

[@Talklsgoated]

So for kimberly her two can throws is useful but Like you said it’s conditions to use it. For example Kimberly highest combo route needs level 3 buff and two cans in the corner. Anyway good video

[@Balthazar228]

The worst part about tundra storm is that the input is literally green hand, the move they removed to add tundra storm That extra salt in the wound…

[@weirdbutawesome160]

Tundra storm: 99% miss: oh sh*t I messed up 1% hit: OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH(orgasm face)

[@AfterDeathLive]

Zangief player passing by, and I'll say what is the one use for Zangief L2 (forward throw). It is to counter Rashid's L2 AKA Great Desert Storm AKA The Best L2. Hear me out why you have to use this one specifically. - If you use Cyclone Lariat, then Rashid's L2 will actually interrupt you halfway through, because it doesn't dissipate even if he is hit. Never use this one. - If you use Jackhammer or Back Throw, you will not get hit by Rashid's storm. However, you will drop him next to the storm (because the storm flew past Zangief's animation) and he gets to use one enhanced move, or can kick it at you. - Only by using L2 Forward Throw, will you drop Rashid in a spot that is AWAY from his storm. And of course, using Zangief L2 to counter Rashid is more about depriving him of his super. EDIT: Didn't realise but Brutus also commented this as well, great minds think alike.

[@rinoyujin]

Borkii is the Tweek (Diddy Kong) of SF6

[@cnuon0105]

2 spray cans and an OD reload? I didn’t know either existed 😂

[@ObeliskEye]

Marisa charged jump normals should put the enemy into the rolling combo state so she can drive rush pickup combos in the corner

[@mr.m4302]

For a move like Tundra Storm to workm, Gief would need another move that counter punches.

[@Wisequack_MGC]

I think the Zangief forward LV2 is only useful if you start the combo with lights pulling you to minimum 40% scaling and you don't want to side switch. There are times the hold version into hellstab > od borscht will deal little damage ~20% scaling.

[@isiahduran2041]

Really feels like tundra storm should be a generic counter. Still requires your opponent to hit mid but doesnt require specifically a kick

[@mysterym6757]

Tundra storm IS useful for putting the fear of Gief in people

[@Zephyr_Weiss]

You could use 2 spray cans to keep people away and then think of a move to keep em guessing. Think outside the box.

[@Deibid38]

Only time I’ve ever gotten any use out of tundra storm was vs a dhalsim that would just spam stand heavy kick from full screen.

[@kennykrool74]

You failed to mention that you can do partial charge jump normals with marissa. Allowing you to consistently win situations where you and your opponent jump at the same time and neither expect it because you can release on reaction. IIRC the math on it, it is effectively 4 frames faster to negative edge a release than it is for your opponent to press a button. I cant plot this statistically but times when you both jump at the same time will result in significant corner carry plus another safe jump or drive rush mix when they OTHERWISE would not. This results in an incredible momentum shift. Likewise BECAUSE ITS A PARTIAL RELEASE move, you can release it on reaction to a shoto doing a fireball and NOT get the full charged move Its 29 frames to do a full charge meaning you have 19 frames to react to a fireball while you are charging and release early. Its completely doable. This allows you to option select people neutral jumping your Gladius, jumping in on you, AND throwing a fireball at a punishable range. Well except Ken and luke standing heavy punch. The godlike buttons still beat this. . These moves have significant utility; people just don't use them.

[@oceanviolets1306]

People keep saying Luke isn't numbered list smdh 😒

[@milliawinters5231]

As an Ex Marisa player, I agree. Her buffs were so far from what she needed that I just decided to stop playing her all together, not gonna sit there for all of SF6 hoping they learn how to balance their own character.

[@thedirtypanda]

As a Marisa player, I've never used her charged jump moves ever. "In ever Jerry, In ever"

[@AchedSphinx]

i've never played sf6, but tundra storm seems like a card in yugioh where it has an ultra specific use case that the opponent happens to make activate.

[@residentlando]

lily main here the forward heavy punch target combo does suck but sometimes i’ve gotten it when misinputting mexican typhoon and it hits every single time so😭

[@rayanson2795]

You can reload 2 spray cans with Kim with the double can input but yeah the move is extremely situational

[@irvingforbush]

They should give Zangief an OD version of Tundra Storm where the only difference is that he spins in the opposite direction.

[@karibu9933]

Other people mentioned this before but Marisa's charged heavies are actually decent now. +18 on safejump let's you frametrap with charged 4Hp, which sets up her best strike/throw situation in the corner, and even just blocking can be costly without committing to parry, [jHk] > [4Hp] > 4Hp234lp is around 2.5 drive bars lost on block. If we wanna talk about Marisa's worse moves there are way better contenders: 3Hp's followp, Scutum's low, 5Lk are all worse

Only real use i've seen for Kimberly's double spray cans is for Drive Impact setups, if they react with a counter DI they'll get hit by Kimberly's DI and both spray cans thus braking the counter DI (three hits)

[@philsteinberg6985]

No one asked lil bro

[@Unit27]

Tundra Storm is the move you use to make peak Gief content.

[@HawtDawg420]

Never knew about the different Gief Lvl2 versions! I thought it was hold or don't.

[@leonardopadilla1418]

Im a Manon main and i HATE when other Manons do the OV comand grab, it does NOTHING special, its the same as MP version but with the HP range, no extra damage and no further range. The worst part is that they use it at super close range, so they are just wasting drive meter.

[@maxrosefoxanime7225]

The only reason for zig i feel like it just to put someone closer to the Connor

[@alkhamistic]

Gief's useless super should only be used when you're in burnout and want to create some distance to recover meter

[@MS_Peko]

I feel like Tundra Storm should work against flying tackle-type moves like E Honda Headbutt, Blanka Ball, and M Bison Psycho Crusher as well as the usual kick moves. That way it’d at least be really solid in certain matchups where Gief could be heavily pestered otherwise by the burst range of these moves. And for more mental damage.

[@N00BSYBORG]

Tundra Storm is a special kind of bad where making the move harder to do in SFV was unironically a buff because you're less likely to do it on accident.

[@2centstudios]

Bison mains who's entire neutral is scissor kick: Haha, yeah don't use that useless move.

[@k.u.5798]

Doesn't Jackhammer force a side switch? The forward version of Gief's level 2 leaves the opponent in front of him and doesn't require drive meter to do more damage. It's a tiny use case, but that's a use case.

[@tylerm.8684]

Juggle state level 2 leaves them in front, does more damage from a meterless combo, does much more damage for 2 bars, and has better oki

[@megapussi]

the juggle version doesnt require drive meter to juggle, you can just do hellstab lariat. It does 40 less than holding forward (literally 10% of a jab) in exchange for leaving you plus ten billion

[@duncanhillzzz]

​@tylerm.8684 I agree with all of your points but the forward input would benefit players who aren't as well versed in the game and don't have the ability to pull off those juggles (yet). It's beneficial for lower level players imo

[@NRobbi42]

I think Kim's "⬆️" follow up after Hisen kick is worse than double can. At least the latter can armor break DIs in the corner. Holding up after 6HK is just a suicide button.

[@johnathanmanning302]

It is mainly because the utility of the move itself in neutral has changed. It went from a mix-up tool in the beta to a long range poke pretty much. The idea is if you get the 6hk to hit, you can decide to stay on the same side with the neutral jump option or side switch with the cross up. I will still agree with 6hk being on the list since it's so slow. If the move was going to be a long-range poke, it should be much faster

[@MFGeedorah47]

Mr. Broski there is a functional difference in the Marisa charged safejump in that 6HK into L gladius is the only gladius blockstring that is gapless and is in niche situations worth considering. That being said they're still cheeks

[@McBibz]

Believe it or not, I've been told Lily's target combo is actually "very good" under the 1-week Lily video... ^^' The weirdest thing to me is that both the starter and the tc are risky (-5 > -9 > -26).

[@Soul471]

Top 5 “but no.5 one isn’t technically its own move and no.3 is 2 moves.” You’re a renegade with these lists. Gone mad with power.

[@elSteeler]

as a Lily main, her TC gives me mental damage when I misinput into it

[@jayro792]

If you’re Mena the. tundra storm is the best move in the game, I bet he can’t wait for Elena 😂