Brothers: The Phil And Tony Esposito Story

Documentary, Interviews, Video Clips.

[@CallittheBluesSection415]

RIP Tony. The greatest of all time. Forget about Roy, Brodeur, and Hasek. Give me Tony "O" any day of the week, anywhere, anytime!

[@pavlovshouse77]

RIP Tony O. Nobody will break your shutout record, 15. In 1 season……15.

[@bufnyfan1]

For 1969-70. Tony Esposito had a spectacular season with Chicago, posting a 2.17 GAA and setting a modern-day NHL record with fifteen shutouts, for which he won the Calder Memorial Trophy as the league's best rookie and the Vezina Trophy. No one has even come close to having 15 shutouts in a single season

[@77Sinner]

Outside of my own old man, Phil & Tony Espisto have a special space in my heart...So good.

[@PeterMayer]

RIP. TONY O...

[@mikemccag]

It's so funny... their voices are identical.

[@patparnell477]

Besides the Esposito Brothers there was Lou Angotti and Lou Nanne who also grew up in Sault Ste Marie at same time.

[@mikecohen3990]

RIP Tony Esposito

[@bluesmoke2]

RIP Tony O !!!!

[@idkwhattoname2112]

My grandpa on my dads side played hockey with tony and Phil when they were kids

[@duranventura128]

RIP Tony

[@BostonesPepe]

Bobby Orr was the prime reason I became a lifetime Boston Bruins fan, but, I just love watching Phil Esposito on and off the ice. Besides being one of the best players of all time, he's the most outgoing character and friendly person. I will never forget his effort against Russia in 1972. He carried that Canada team on his shoulders and turned the series around. By the way I read the book "The brother's Esposito" in 1972 for the first time. So nice to see this video on Phil & Tony. Two superstars in the NHL

[@tipple58]

A superb hockey story! Inspirational and moving.

[@garthbuck4274]

Wow! I remember Phil's speech to the fans in Van. after '72 Canada Cup as if it was yesterday! I was 11 years old. Both brothers are Canadian icons. Imagine two brothers as stars in the NHL. Gotta have Stompin' Tom Conners song for these two champions :-)

[@chrave1956]

Garth Buck me too !

[@johnvrabec9747]

My first Hawks game was a playoff game vs. the hated Blues, and Tony gets the shutout win, and it's his birthday, to boot. I always wanted to play goalie in our street hockey and floor hockey games, because of Tony-O. Gotta love brothers.

[@leemark63]

Peace Tony. Peace.

[@laborlabor7526]

Rest in peace Tony O

[@petermotta1623]

Two brothers & legends! God bless #7 & #35

[@euclidallglorytotheloglady5500]

I grew up and lived in Chicago until I was 22 then moved to Wisconsin. I work in the tech field making house calls to fix things. One morning looking at my route I saw the name Tony Esposito. I drew a complete blank why I knew this name and it was bugging the hell outta me all day. Finally it was the appointment window and parked in the driveway and as I was getting out of my truck a guy comes hobbling out of the house to greet me. As soon as I saw him I sad. "Holy shit, Tony O!!" They have a nice summer home on the lake here. It was my last appointment of the day so after doing my job I got to hang out and talk with him, his wife and son. Everyone was so nice and interested in what I had to say. They are one of the sweetest families I've ever met.

[@arkansaswookie]

That is a cool experience. My uncle owns a HVAC business in Milton near Janesville and did the work on Walter Payton's vacation home in Wisconsin. I grew up Wisconsin and the lake that we would swim at during the summer in the mid 70's had a really nice resort/lodge that looked more like a souther style plantation house. It was a favorite vacation spot for the Chicago mafia. They all drove new Cadillacs and one big mafia guy asked me to run to the bar and get him a Coke. He gave me $20 for doing that. It was the summer of 1976 and I was going into the 5th grade and that was big money to a kid in 1976.

[@euclidallglorytotheloglady5500]

@@arkansaswookie Theirs lots of places in Wisco that the old gangsters would hide up here, especially in the North Woods by Little Bohemia, Manitowish Waters. Some of the cabins are still bullet ridden from the big Dillinger shootout. It's no wonder why they'd go up there, you have to know your way around to not get lost in the woods. Even now, let alone on the 30's. Where I met Tony was north of Door County not far from the ferry to get to Washington island, still on good o'l lake Michigan.

[@euclidallglorytotheloglady5500]

@@arkansaswookie Payton though!! That's awesome!

[@arkansaswookie]

@@euclidallglorytotheloglady5500 Door county is a beautiful place. Definitely a lot of wealth in that region. A lot of retired pro hockey and pro football players have "cabins" on the peninsula. I've looked at property up there as well as houses, and some of the houses, aka "cabins" were selling for close to a million or much more. You definitely know that some of the places were owned by former pro athletes by the stuff hanging on the walls. I got a good laugh out of how some of the places were listed as summer retreats and cabins when they're 3 and 4 thousand sq. feet. with an unobstructed view of Lake Michigan. I used to go Coho fishing with family friends on Lake Michigan in a huge Chris Craft cabin cruiser that the family had taken across the North Atlantic to the U.K. in the late 70's transiting to the Atlantic on the St.Lawrence Seaway. I'm hoping to buy my dad's old house not far from Oshkosh, but dealing with my step mom isn't as easy task. I told my wife that I want to get a place for me to go to during the winter and re-live my childhood of ice fishing and snowmobiling. Although it seems like they don't get the snow like they used to.

[@edmundkemp2280]

Tony is one of the toughest goalies or dudes on the planet. That hit in the head from beside the net by Kenny Hodge and continuing on...and that hit in the throat when playing against the Russians in '72 and continuing on. Jesus, a blinding puck in the throat?! God, I'd be dead.

[@chrischapel9165]

As a Michigan native I think of Esposito's as Michiganders etc... HOWEVA I LOATHE both boston and chicago both in all sports!

[@sfgnyy]

I grew up in Chicago and I am a lifelong Blackhawks fan. I only wish that Boston and Chicago made the trade to bring Phil back to Chicago. The Blackhawks would have won a Stanley Cup if Phil came back to Chicago. It would have been a great scene to see Phil and Tony lift the Stanley Cup together. Boston and Chicago almost made the trade but someone backed off in last minute. Tony Esposito was my favorite player. I remember going to a Blackhawks game in 1980 and Tony's wife Marilyn was in the row in front of us. She seemed like a nice and humble person. Beautiful lady.

[@williamlacombe8958]

Do you recall who what players Chicago offered.i know the bruins got park and gotta say park was effin great .not Bobby Orr but still a hell of a player

[@user-oo2cm4ks5y]

Tony O with that mask and the Blackhawks jersey was a true lasting image of the 1970s in all sports

[@SLAYERSWINE1]

Tony Esposito set one of those sports records that will never be broken: 15 shutouts in a season. He sits at this moment 10th all time in wins. He has been retired 35 years...

[@AC-gw4qu]

15 shut outs in his rookie season, too. That's a rookie record that'll be impossible to beat.

[@timrobinson7373]

This is a great story about the brothers Espo. As a Hawks fan Bobby Hull was my hero but Tony O was right next to him the greatest goalie I ever saw as a kid

[@daniellinehan63]

15 SO's as a rookie in '69-70

[@larryjung8062]

Phil Esposito a hockey legend !.

[@craigfazekas3923]

I have a true affinity for 1970s goaltenders. Having grew up in Flyers territory, Parent says it all for me. But Tony O., Ken Dryden, Rogie Vachon, Dan Bouchard, Gilles Vellemure...you name it. The goalies of that era were something that just fascinated me & still does. And I saw the last goalie to not employ a mask, at the Spectrum in Philly. His name was Andy Brown & he backstopped for the Penguins. This was around '73. But Tony Esposito, along with Bernie, were the cream of the crop. No disrespect intended, Mr. Dunc Wilson....😎

[@marblox9300]

I played street hockey in Chicago before going to ice. As a goalie Tony was one of my idols. I saw Tony at a appearance in a store where a long line of people bought a puck and he signed them. When I was a kid hockey was the only thing that mattered. The best times I remember was stopping pucks. Chicago Stadium was big inside and beautiful. All those screaming fans as loud as it was and a Goalie has to do magic in front of all of them. I would have been terrified to have to be a goalie in front of all those people. Kind of like stage fright. Seems strange when the people you think of as almost G-ds you see as real everyday people at weddings and in their houses.

[@bobfishnut]

Two great performers who probably don't get enough credit in NHL.

[@liveclassictunes]

awesome!!!! greatest brother combo in the history of the NHL

[@eddriver7815]

I think the Richards would question that Henri /// won 11 stanley cups Maurice /// won 8 stanley cups Espositos won 2 whos the greatest brother s again ????

[@user-th9dw4bu7h]

А братья Саттеры?

[@CallittheBluesSection415]

@@eddriver7815 The Esposito's. Who the hell could understand what the Richard's were talking about?

[@sfgnyy]

Growing up in Chicago I loved watching Tony Esposito play for the Blackhawks. I just wish that he and Phil had a chance to play together for the Blackhawks. I know there were a few opportunities for it to happen but unfortunately it did not happen, It would have been great. Good guys, I am glad they are doing well.

[@edmundkemp2280]

Tony O, my hockey hero. I was only about 10 or 11 when I chose him as my favorite. He had style and was just great. Remember one time he came on the t.v. doing an interview. I was 12 or so and dropped what I was doing to watch him. Man, I'm now in my 50's and he still amazes me, and not just as a great goalie. Tony O! (Did an edit.) I just found this out at the end of this video and will be watching "Mystery, Alaska" with Tony's bro Phil in it. Awesome! Ha, I can't believe it. Never knew he got into acting. Phil is a Canadian hockey gem. One of the greatest. But no, he is the greatest--our unwavering general in that crucial, pivotal '72 series against the Soviet Union. (I even kind of seriously think Phil should have been awarded a medal of some kind for that by the Canadian military). The movie even has the great Russell Crowe in it. I am also a Russell Crowe fan and was actually a bit incredulous at first but it's true. Crowe has been in my home, Newfoundland, a number of times. Anyway, Lord T'underin' Jesus, me byes, I'll be lookin' forward to it.

[@perryjohnehses3911]

That's really cool, that little old lady still living by their old rink!

[@twistoffate4791]

Yes, lol. And there she was, waving at him. Sweet moment it was.

[@sirmoomin2322]

Didn't know that Esposito was the first player to hit 100 points in a season.

[@edwardlowery4007]

Great story proud to be Canadian

[@user-th9dw4bu7h]

Ты канадец и ими гордишься, а я русский и их тоже очень люблю! Великие игроки, а Фил и Пол Хендерсон научили нас тому, что матч нужно играть до Последней секунды!

[@ourwickedworldaddictradio1028]

Actually, Glen Hall was first "butterfly" position goalie, also a Hawks netminder and 61 Cup winning netminder.

[@anthonygiordano8237]

Great stuff.. Two legends

[@timrobinson7373]

RIP Tony O

[@jhart1488]

Soo legends

[@lambertslife3682]

I grew up playing on that same outdoor rink

[@Demy1970]

Is that rink still there?

[@frankesposito2182]

Phil & Tony,...Esposito..Hockey Royalty.

[@markletki9419]

Frank Esposito I remember watching both as a kid, loved and rooted for each one. True hockey legends and I’m a Sabres fan.

[@Z_TPI]

Are you my uncle? Haha

[@donald2306]

I met both Tony and Phil at a lounge once. Believe me when I say you haven't met Mutt and Jeff until you meet those two guys. Tony was sitting beside me on a bar stool and we got talking. I asked him his name and he said "Tony". I gave him mine and asked "What's your last name?" He said "Esposito". I had to do a double take and sure enough, it was him. Such a jovial little guy. Phil came down a couple of minutes later. The man is absolutely HUGE! He's about 4 or 5 ft. wide at the shoulders. He seemed to be in a bit of a snarly mood and we had a little disagreement because I'm a Habs fan and I told him how much I used to hate him because if the other team (Chicago or Boston) needed another goal to tie or win a game, he seemed to always be the guy who scored it. Tony? Well all he did was sit there and laugh and chuckle as Phil got hot under the collar. He didn't give me the chance to tell him how I drooled over him when his name came up for trade from the Hawks. It was the only time I was ever upset with Sam Pollock because he didn't pick him up. I would have traded half the team away just to get my hands on him. I saw his potential when he was with Chicago as a leader and a game breaker and goal scorer long before he came up in trade and the Bruins picked him up. Then I brought up Guy Lafleur's cousin whom I had played with and why he never made it to the NHL. Let me tell you....that was a big mistake and I shouldn't have brought it up with the history of Lafleur, the Habs and the Bruins being what it was. All the while, here was Tony, still laughing and chuckling. Phil can be pretty scary but Tony was pretty cool. I guess that's why Tony was a goaltender.

[@arkansaswookie]

Great story. Now I have to research Lafleur's cousin. Cheers.

[@donald2306]

@@arkansaswookie I'm afraid you're not going to find much. I don't know where Rejean ended up after College de Longueuil. I've found nothing on him on hockey data base so he obviously never went on to play anywhere after he got out of school. There was, however, a coach who went by Ray Lafleur in southern Ontario who coached my step son. I suspect that was him but don't know for sure as I was living in Calgary, Alberta at the time.

[@arkansaswookie]

@@donald2306 You're right. I didn't really find anything without digging to far. It piqued my curiosity was all, and imagining that if he had some of the talent that Guy had, what could have been. I've known quite a few guys that definitely had the skills and talent to go all the way, but they didn't have the heart and drive for whatever reason. Marriage seemed to play a big factor in some decisions. Anyway, thank for the story. Cheers.

[@donald2306]

@@arkansaswookie Good to hear from you. What I liked about Rejean was that he was just as wiry as Guy was and I will tell you this.....he was even MORE....much more of a gentleman than Guy was. I doubt very much that Rejean ever had an enemy in his entire lifetime because he was so likeable. I could only imagine what it wouild have been like to see both Guy and Rejean on the same ice surface together when they were younger. What a show that could have been!

[@arkansaswookie]

@@donald2306 Thanks for your reply. I have to ask, in your estimation why didn't he make the jump to the NHL? Thanks Donald V. I appreciate it.

[@Demy1970]

Just look at the equipment these guys wore. Those pads were also very heavy

[@Musique61414]

Where would the NHL be without those two? When I was a kid I played goalie, and had a Tony mask from Mylec. I painted it like Gene Simmons of Kiss.

[@peterstrianus1790]

Esposito is surname coming from south of Italy in particularly the city of Naples it was a surname given at the time to the people with no parents who were picked up in a public square where they were shown (esposto) to childless families and eventually adopted. Esposto then became Esposito due to dialect variations.

[@AC-gw4qu]

fascinating

[@Jackretro]

Tony was a better person than Phil ! R I P Tony

[@buddha7178]

Tony's wife is beautiful

[@frankesposito2182]

Great guys,....to bad I caught them at the end of their Careers,....Aww well always the Senoir circuit. ...

[@heathfitzgerald363]

These two could of been enforcers for the mafia lol

[@Solaris501]

Tony had a good wife. Supportive, didn’t gain weight, etc.

[@marblox9300]

They both seem like real nice people. So glad he had such a great famous sports career.

[@powerhouse9868]

Carrie Esposito Selivanov died on January 30, 2012, from an abdominal aneurysm

[@why-why-whywhywhy]

To this very day I still think that *Dominik Hasek* is the greatest NHL goaltender I have ever had the pleasure of watching. But something about the way Tony ‘O’ stood in goal, while wearing his one of a kind mask & sporting his iconic bright red Chicago Blackhawks home jersey always made him to me look like the ‘coolest’ athlete on earth. As for his older brother Phil, well all that he had to do was park his big body in front of the opposing team’s net, have a team mate pass him the puck or he get a rebound & ‘fugget’ about it. Because in both scenarios that biscuit was going to end up in the basket (alot) more times than not. And try as they might, there was bugger all that most defenceman could do to prevent that from being the final outcome either.

[@daniellinehan63]

Hassak and Belfour were Hawks that $1 bill let go

[@laughtoohard9655]

I wore both 4 and 7. As a kid I could't decide.

[@davidberglund8879]

The Bruins of the early 70s should have won 3 or 4 Stanley Cups. So much talent, with Orr & Espo leading the way.

Ken Dryden got in their way, that was the problem, GO HABS GO.

[@davidberglund8879]

@ Yeah, and the Flyers, too. Phil Esposito claimed that the team liked each other so much that no one was willing to step up and call out players who were not carrying their own weight.

[@mikelynch7271]

David Berglund ... Agreed !!!

[@roberthenry8690]

They should have but couldn’t beat Montreal and Philadelphia

[@charlesbaldo]

4:10 A typical Canadian summer

[@jerrymccarthy5826]

What year was this made

[@incumbentvinyl9291]

What year?

[@chirorickyp]

ITALIAN BLOOD FROM SAULT STE MARIE ONTARIO. NOTHING STRONGER!!! STRONG AS STEEL.

[@analogkid4957]

chirorickyp they seem like NY Italians as well. Brooklyn Italians are tough. Fittingly Espo played In NY and probably hung out in Little Italy

[@michaelbelfer6513]

As a life long NY Ranger fan , I never fogave Emile Francis for "The Trade" in the fall of '75. To trade away 2 or the 10 best all time Rangers for a good(not great Carol Vadnais) and a past his prime Esposito who I never liked. Yes Phil could still score but Ratty was a better player at that point. Hell, Jean was the best center in the league (1971-72) when he broke his ankle that cost him a 55 goal season (easily). The man was at last listening to his friend (Rod Gilbert) who for years was telling him to let that wrist shot of his fly. Bobby Orr used to say that Jean was the Ranger forward the Bruins feared the most; his skating, play making and that shot we're the best of any center they faced!!! Orr's word's, not mine

[@michaelbelfer6513]

BTW, Tony was the 2nd best goalie of his era behind Bernie Parent

[@Burford1956]

I had always felt Phil overstayed his welcome in Boston; learning how he treated his wives even lowers my respect for him.

[@RSTI191]

Close your eyes, you can't tell who's who..

[@frankesposito2182]

Hockey is Aboot family anyway!

[@jeancorriveau8686]

Although a Québécois, I admired the two Espositos much more than the Montreal canadien..

[@Jackretro]

good for you !!!

[@TheHoward27]

Jesus saves, but Esposito scores on the rebound.

[@charlesbaldo]

TheHoward27 holy crap, I made the comment then saw yours. I loved saying that in the 70’s

[@charlesbaldo]

Jesus Saves, But Esposito scores on the rebound

[@jimlarsen9340]

I really miss goaltenders having their own personal styles.

[@marblox9300]

Todays goalies all grow up playing a very structured formulated style. It is designed for optimal covering of the net. Back in the day (my day) there was no such thing and everyone just played the position THEIR way to get the job done. There was uniqueness from player to player. Basically I believe the modern goalie is superior to what we were back in the day. That probably goes for all the other positions too. But I do miss the Old Chicago Stadium. :(

[@guytitanic]

St.Catharines Tee Pee's not Sarnia

[@daveyboy_]

HaHa , Bruno Gerussi . Daa Naa na naa nut nut nana nana nut nutt Naa naa na naaa. Know that theme song ? Here's a hint. Picture Rolling logs in the water

[@jameschio756]

The Beachcombers.

[@chuckmagpie4159]

The Beachcombers

[@tylerconley7739]

"Tretiak was a dogshit goalie" .......come on Phil, you know that's not true at all lol.

[@roberthenry8690]

Dryden was the one who always struggled against the USSR

[@tylerconley7739]

@@roberthenry8690 yeah but so did everyone else too at a certain time. But to call Tretiak a shit goalie is hilarious because it's the opposite of the facts

[@marblox9300]

Phil didn't like Russians.

[@incumbentvinyl9291]

27:18 - *Soviet Union

[@MrHelp-yd4kn]

I am italian... My favourite player even though I am a leafs fan is Phil Esposito. I believe he is the greatest personality that has graced the NHL. Ever. I bring a lot to the table. I would pay 500 bucks an hour just to talk to this guy. Can someone make it happen. This guy imo has not been allowed to be the Don Cherry, because he is 500 times the human being, Don Cherry is.

[@irishwit843]

I get ya', I'm old school Irish. I too love Espo...ALWAYS keeps it real about himself and others. You're right hockey should really use this guy...probably TOO REAL for this sanitized, corporate world.

[@marblox9300]

The Espo Brothers were definitely cool. When you see your idols at weddings and in their houses - it seems kind of strange. As I knew them from Television - they seemed almost like G-ds.

[@marblox9300]

As I knew the Espo brothers from American Television in Chicago - they seemed almost like G-ds. When you see your idols at weddings and in their houses - it seems kind of strange because you never envisioned them as real everyday people.

[@robertlavrakas7442]

Keith magnuson Bobby orrs punching bag!!

[@ourwickedworldaddictradio1028]

Jesus Saves... But Espo scores on the rebound! Period bumper sticker.

[@tracybazinet4899]

"Long Cold Winters" LOL.... AVRG -12c in January

[@frankesposito2182]

I wish they were with the Rangers organization....

[@MrHelp-yd4kn]

I will, get to talk to phil esposito. Why? Seek and you shall find. I am stunned this guy isnt the brand of the NHL but at the same time, as an Italian, we have been ripped off time and time again. We are too real.

[@eddriver7815]

When I think of Tony Esposito .. I automaticly think of Jacques Lemaire nd the 1971 Stanley Cup final game 7 ... Hawks were leading 2 - 0 going into the third period .... AND ??? then Tony blew the cup for Chicago .... a fella was yelling ... " Mr Esposito .... paging Mr Esposito ... Telegram for Tony Esposito ... Jacques Lemaire has just shot the puck from London UK it will take 5 hours for the puck to get to you ... whatzat ??? you blew the shot ?? the score is now 2 - 1 ... don't worry Tony ... you 'll blow two more shots and lose 3- 2 and now forever ... you will be remembered for losing the game 7 to Montreal Canadien .... Hawks would not win another cup for 50 years ... that's what I remember when I hear Tony Esositos name

[@Whitestofbears75]

You nailed it Ed, as a Canadians fan I remember that shots by Lemaire. Tony choked in that game

[@daniellinehan63]

Jacques knew his former mate was very near- sighted

[@daniellinehan63]

Pappin missing 3 open- netters in the final 7 minutes....and Henri....doomed them !

[@marblox9300]

That shot was a Laser. It was past the center line (not center) and Stadium ice was short of 200 feet making it even closer. And Tony wore contact lenses which could have played a part in the goal. Tony was great in his prime and could probably hold his own against the best of today. Also goalies of today have incredible protection of armor that in the 1970s was non-existent.

[@bb-gc2tx]

Tony was good for his time. Let's be honest though he couldn't make 3rd string on AHL team today

[@bb-gc2tx]

@CJ Dillon ok I'm insane. Lmao. These goalies today wipe the floor with Tony. Watched a game on KZbin of him against leafs in 83 it was the worst goaltending I've ever seen. He let up 8 goals and looked like he about keel over lmao. Compare quick to Esposito it's not even close

[@tylerconley7739]

Put quick in that gear. He gets destroyed. Injured in the first period. Goalies today are soft.

[@bb-gc2tx]

@@tylerconley7739 oh sure I can see your point because a extremely less condtioned 40 year old Esposito didn't get hurt I can totally see your point how a 33 yr old world class athlete like quick would get hurt and not tony lmao idiot

[@leger205]

are you nuts?!!! Tony takes a shot to the throat and still plays on. Tony takes a shot to the side of his head almost gets knocked out and still plays on. Now tell me again how the goalies of today are as tough as him in the same equipment? They would shit their pants. Yes and I was a goalie back then also. The equipment was horrible and it hurt getting frozen pucks shot at my pads. My pads where so thin I had to wear players pads behind my goalie pads. Don't even ask me about the shoulder pads. I would have been better off wearing a winter coat for protection. Tony was and still is one tough SOB.

[@bobfishnut]

Quick NEVER put up 15 shutouts in any season let alone in his rookie season as Tony did. How many years did the two play?

[@truth7294]

Fun guy Phil. But Phil divorced himself from his wife and God. The Devils got the better deal on that trade. A Godly Life on this earth decides if you go up or down. Heaven is what you want to win when all the earthly cheering stops. "Oh my God." eh Phil? Team Real Catholic is the only winning team.Don't be that communist where you and your wife don't own each other but belong to the godless state. Its not a game Phil as you've said, its a war. Against yourself. Mea Culpa. You surely remember that Phil. Cheering? Praying for ya Phil.

[@35jeydee]

Fucking people and their stupid religion about God. God is really good, that's why things are going so well on this earth :)

[@jim7297]

WTF, the truth is YOU are a wack job!!!!!!!

[@marblox9300]

@@35jeydee If you believe evolution then you haven't put much thought into it. The world is a messed up place but that is because people no longer fear G-d. So now anything goes and we see how that doesn't work out so well for humanity. I don't think Phil being divorced necessarily makes him evil. I think this commentor has some kind of axe to grind.