Bruce E. Levine | The Rise and Fall of Psychiatry | Psychology Is Podcast 45

Clinical psychologist Dr. Bruce Levine joins Nick for a conversation about historical and modern practices in the field of psychiatry. The conversation is based on Dr. Levine's new book, A Profession Without Reason: The Crisis of Contemporary Psychiatry Untangled and Solved by Spinoza, Freethinking, and Radical Enlightenment.
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00:00 Thanks for tuning in
01:30 Dr. Levine's new book
03:04 The credibility of psychiatry
13:29 How did psychiatry regain credibility?
23:07 On the nature of diagnosis
44:40 Freethinking
57:30 If it's not a chemical imbalance, what is it...
01:02:45 Fear
01:06:55 An ugly lie in A Beautiful Mind
Produced by
Nick Fortino & Robert Daluz
Psychology Is Podcast with Nick Fortino:
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[@psychologyis]

If you or someone you know is considering coming off of psychiatric drugs, here are some educational resources: www.madinamerica.com/ withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/ breggin.com/a-guide-for-prescribers-therapists-patients-and-their-families/ medicatingnormal.com/psychiatric-drug-withdrawal/

[@kimlec3592]

Dr Levine is spot on the money. Great thinker. Realistic.

[@stephenmann9534]

Dr. Peter Breggin, has covered these topics for years with all his excellent books, including the first in 1991, "Toxic Psychiatry", which changed my life. Other books he has written, "Talking Back to Ritalin" "The War Against Children" address the problems psychiatric "diagnosing" can cause.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Peter and Ginger have the Center for Empathic Therapy!

[@ccc771]

your recovery begins with non-compliance to psychiatric drugs and shock treatment.

[@annbell8748]

Or when your research is ahead of their “game” the moment you encounter one of these dangerous predators… 🎉😮

[@stevekaylor5606]

@@annbell8748 When someone has a crisis, it's best to resolve it - and not end up as prey to a Psychiatrist. He is too ready to hand out a disease-like Freudian label, then neurotoxic drugs/ECT - all of which compound and tend to make permanent any problems the person had!

[@TalRachman]

Then you will be "diagnosed" with having Oppositional Defiant Disorder....

[@seanmoon7095]

Get Up, Stand Up had a massive impact on me. The only thing more impactful than Bruce Levine's book, Get Up, Stand Up, was the way in which such an important book was almost completely ignored by mainstream media. Talk about gaslighting. I'm pretty sure Levine discussed Liberation Psychology, and Ignacio Martin Barro in that book. Treatment must start embracing such ideas soon, or run the risk of total irrelevance. I think it was Johann Hari who said, when it comes to mental illness, we must stop talking so much about chemical imbalances in the mind, and start talking about power imbalances in society. BINGO!

[@brrradley1]

I just discovered this channel, excellent work. The mind body dichotomy really applies to modern psychiatry; they throw out the conscious mind and treat the human as just a body.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Psychiatrists have been granted their DSM labeling system - they are sincere, unabashed and hubristic about what they proceed to push onto someone. James Davies and Gary Greenberg are good on this!

[@clinttaylor4032]

It’s important to know that Dr. Levine is an expert on the impact of trauma on the psychology of an individual. As he holds for the way of using temperament as understanding people in a no pathologizing manner , he writes about how trauma can have a profound impact on someone’s life, even through generations.

[@DEEPMOODYPURPLEBLUES]

Thank you for another vitally important conversation, Bruce and Nick! "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society", however, that sick society will throw everyone and everything under the bus to avoid owning it's responsibility - just like it tells the individual who's biology has adapted for their survival. ...rinse, wash, repeat. I wonder how long humanity can continue on like this? I've lived with suicidal ideation since I was 8 or 9. I've worked tirelessly to figure my issues out and directly address them, but society doesn't care about reality, and insists upon collective delusions like you're addressing in this conversation. This mass delusion being forced upon us as reality fly in the face of the hard earned truths we freethinkers uncover in our work, and is too often why people kill themselves ffs. smdh

[@karenmackie6591]

Having been under phycareretist care for 30 years I came to conclusion that all they care about is dishing put drugs. I Don't deny that I was manic on occasions and needed sectioned. But if I take time out from society I'm really well. Society is the problem for me as you are forced to live in lies and some people just don't want to live a lie.

[@averayugen7802]

some cant fit in Its not about wanting. They CANT fit in. Then the psycho racket endorses all that. They are made UNABLE to fit in

[@deberebor]

"A Beautiful Mind" inspired me to get off all the meds a psychiatrist had me on for migraine (antidepressant, antianxiety, narcotic painkiller, and amphetamine). I totally understood Nash's decision because I too was losing a grasp on my own identity. So, I disagree that the movie was so misleading. It was clear to me that he made the choice to stop them and to accept his condition and work with it in an honest way.

[@Anna-wr3uy]

The movie is misleading because it states that he improved because of newer medicine he was taking, which is not true because he has stopped completely.

[@upendasana7857]

Thank thank thank you for this wonderful conversation,cannot tell you how grateful I am for the work and enquiry you are both doing around the area of mental illness and how and what is being labelled and considered to be legitimate disorders". It really is a travesty that people are diagnosed so often in the most casual ways and given a label and diagnosis and told to take drugs for the rest of their lives which often have horrific side effects themselves and cause iatrogenic damage and lead often to very poor quality lifestyles. I am really hoping that people in the general public will see through more and more this total sham of psychiatry as recently also Joanna Moncrieff was interviewed about the myth of the biochmiecal imabalnce in depression on Sky news,Hopefully this is going into the mainstream mroe and more and still people seem to unquestioningly think or be under the belief that serious disorders particualrly like schizophrenia are a brain and biochemical imbalance and the only treatment is a chemical one namely drugs. My life and families life has been severely effected thorugh such a damning diagnosis of a family member and the effect not only on that individual but the whole family really is devastating.I think families are being let down and torn apart by the overall lack of support and other therapeutic alternatives as well as the stigma and shame of these diagnosis very often. I cannot thank you both enough for such a wonderful discussion and can't wait to see a part 2. Again thank you for speaking out and being willing to question such a powerful institution that psychiatry is.It has got away for too long with this unscientific methods reuslting too often in abusive practices all in the name of medicine and so called help " I'm sure there are well meaning psychiatrists out there who really believe in the good they do and mean well but in truth psychiatry has probably killed more than its helped.

[@rachelvoorna6899]

I think 100 years of pseudoscientific tyranny is long enough. The damaging impacts of psychiatry will be felt for decades to come. It's time to take the power out of these quacks hands.

[@laurabernas4675]

And to that last point in the video-psychiatry deprives the public of actual solutions that heal, of which there are many!! That’s what is so devastating about this whole situation is that there are genuine healers and healing modalities out there that actively work and provide long-lasting change whose access has been actively stymied because of political and financial interest.

[@christaparro]

Psychology Is Do you have a community for like minded mental health professionals?! I need a group of these people around me as I'm in the field and feel like fish swimming upstream because I don't buy into all the DSM diagnoses and medical models. I loved this interview. Please do part 2!!

[@Earl_E_Burd]

MadInAmerica website

[@theharshtruthoutthere]

@@Earl_E_Burd Turn to bible and allow CHRIST to be your therapist, psychologist and psychiatrist. No man nor women fits to be one. All are sinners and without glory, all are tempted and suffer the same. All are expected to REPENT AND BORN AGAIN, to LIVE HOLY AND GO AND SIN NO MORE. All are weak in the daily fight between their spirit and flesh. All these therapist, psychologist and psychiatrist, this world provides, can do is: to deceive and steal. They deceived you through all these “diagnoses” and they steal your money, through all the pills which you “need”. In short: they poison your mind and your overall health, leaving you with neither one. Therapist, Psychologist and Psychiatrist = Field where no human soul, never ever going to fit of being an help, no matter the among of years spend in “medical schools” or the decree gotten from there. ALL of us are daily deceived, no matter the walks of life. Do not trust one nor to try to be one. 1 John 4:1 KJV Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Turn to the BIBLE yourself and advice it to others also.

[@kristinmeyer489]

25:01 Imo the fact that people can SHOP for diagnoses says EVERYTHING about the corruption.

[@grahaminglis4242]

The fact that this discussion over one and a quarter hours has still other issues to discuss in a second interview attests to the enormous lengths that psychiatry as a branch of medicine has violated the principles of ‘doctor’s orders’ is unsurpassed as a blatant misuse of authority by applying psychopharmacology remedies to patients who are powerless to resist the pathological burden that is inflicted upon them by professionals falsely claiming to know the truth about what’s wrong and how to fix it. The extent of the duplicity in misleading the general public is mind boggling. Sadly, the psychiatric system has been given unfettered power which the scientific side of medicine is a willing participant in propagating invalid diagnostic and treatment regimens and it is virtually untouchable as it hides itself within the positive reputation of the legitimate establishment of genuine medical institutes .

[@thingfish000]

We are all bombarded by lies and insincerity around the clock. A normal healthy mind can withstand only so much.

[@terkelalgevind529]

With the july 20th 2022 news about no proof of chemical imballance in the brain cause of depression I feel much better about quitting my Duloxetine meds without consulting my doctor first... :S I was put on sertraline for anxiety and mild depression, did nothing, put on duloxetine and it made me zombified so after just 2 months on 60mg I quit cold turkey... I had severe withdrawals for the first 5 days, very severe, and the withdrawal is gone now after almost 3 months.

[@terkelalgevind529]

Today I feel younger and more energized then ever at 38! I have also quit processed foods and eat mainly carnivore sources of food. I also started taking a mix of adaptogens handpicked and work out as well for 3 months.

[@kimlec3592]

@ Terkel Algevind : Thank you for writing this. 20th of July was my brother's birthday. He would have been 53. We had bad bad life due to parents not wanting to really be parents. He would be pleased with the announcement on that day. Some try their best in psychiatry, but telling people they are mental without taking their life situation into consideration is usual. Many who were in the most abusive situations did not even realise it, such was the injunction to not tell, and the utter hopelessness of that situation just isolates and shuts people up even more because they are told bullshit that they are ill, when it is actually they are enduring hatred disguised as love. Thank you for writing on here

[@katwmn17]

Wow, wow, wow! Thank you for even more brilliant content Nick. Thank you to Dr Levine as well. I have assisted others in the coming off process for over 5 years now as my full time profession after my own coming off experience. One of my "specialties" is looking at the metaphysical aspects of mental health labels. There is always a reason we start taking these meds and it's never a chemical imbalance! I do believe there is validity in the studies of trauma victims experiencing chemical changes and rewiring of the neural pathways in the brain. But this is completely different than the chemical imbalance narrative we've been fed by Eli Lilly's marketing department to promote Prozac which then continued to be perpetuated long after. Please continue to be of service to humanity in this way. You are a bright and shining beacon of light!

[@danag812]

Thank you for this important interview and for both of your work in pushing back against the established "pseudoscience" that is modern day psychiatry. I have really been enjoying these discussions!

[@rickp.6251]

I forget the name of the movie, but in the script they, the powers to be in the movie directed drugs to be given to a whistle blower to " turn him into an idiot that no one would listen to."

[@Anna-wr3uy]

Excellent interview ❤️very thoughtful questions, thank you both so much and can’t wait for part 2.

[@rodrigoribeiro9057]

I discovered Bruce E Levin in an excellent interview with Alex Jones about his book (if I'm not mistaken) Get Up, Stand Up: Uniting Populists, Energizing the Defeated, and Battling the Corporate Elite. Bruce E Levine gets it right on 🎯

[@kimlec3592]

People develop symptoms in a human response to assault/insult/loss...psychology has long acknowledged this. But you cannot sell someone a drug to fix another person, unless you of course aspire to a career as a drug dealer...🤔😱😲🥺🤬😥🧐😂🤣😂

[@MichaelTenQi]

Bless you Nick! Thank you for spreading these worthwhile ideas. Limitless Peace. 🕉

[@faitht3643]

Grateful for your insightful videos and the experts you invite to share their research and wisdom. I appreciate your posting the time marks for the various topics you discuss and hope you could do that for all your full interviews. Thanks again!

[@annbell8748]

The mere fact that bullies and abusive people use psychiatry to attack their victims is proof enough that they know what is up and the fact there is little to no pushback from the psychiatrists says it all in my opinion. If you are on free medical care about all their effort is spent trying to convince you you are insane. And that it is free - well, it is not really free then, is it?

[@kimlec3592]

Thank you for bringing rational discussion in a way we can all understand...very grateful for your content.

[@adrianskog4117]

great stuff this has been bothering all of my adult life finally we see some change is coming or at least more insights how to do better things to help people and not harm them. Its seems many in the field wants to change things to no harming of patients and helping.

[@sointeresting3938]

And Bruce, you are awesome! And fun too. :o)

[@GnosisMan50]

*_”As a result of human recalcitrance to acknowledge our own pathology, in the history of behavioral science, and in particular in the history of psychology and psychiatry, almost no effort has been made to gain an understanding of human pathology that has its roots in normal--as opposed to abnormal psychology. Primarily among psychiatrists there have been a few notable exceptions, including Menninger, Fromm, Peck, Milton Erickson, and others whose observations are discussed in Bartlett (2005), all of whom have had the courage to recognize the pathological constitution of the ordinary person who so often is a willing participant in inflicting suffering, death, and destruction. But despite the work of these few researchers, psychology and psychiatry have doggedly reserved the term `pathology' exclusively for application to individuals and groups judged to be abnormal, that is, whose psychology deviates from the norm. This, as Bartlett (2005) attempts to show, is short-sightedness in the extreme”_* Steven James Bartlett from his book “Normality Does Not EqualMental Heath” I wish Dr. Levine would interview Dr. Steven James Bartlett as Bartlett has a lot to say about the fallacies within our mental health institutions.

[@kimlec3592]

Try to find "Permission To Be Miserable"...by The School of Life, recently....the pressure to "be happy" despite our circumstances is a very real yet unrealistic pressure that is placed on us by others who cannot stand misery in themselves. The very idea that a pill can cure illness is laughable. Thank you for this guest.

[@annaynely]

Fear is crucial. Fantasized expectations appearing real.

[@toddm6999]

Poison Drugs doesn't solve Mental illness it solves Super Cars for pharmacy executives

[@sointeresting3938]

Excellent talk! Thank you!!

[@mariekejansen7658]

Thank you .. you are so helpful 🙏

[@4eversayaandhagi1]

I am a schizophrenic, I been schizophrenic since I was four years old because I stupidly told my I heard voices. I've on a lot of first generation meds and probably if not all the second generation meds and I haven't liked any of them. Ever. At 43 I still live with my because I can't afford to live elsewhere on my own. I've looked all around Mississippi and I can't find shit that's affordable. One of my Mom's main rules is that I take my medication or she will throw me into a mental hospital put me on conservatorship and that bitch or bastard will control my money (which I neither nor need) and that conservator will decide where I get to live. I refuse to allow that to ever happen to me, ever again. I do not like psychiatry and I doubt I ever will. Psychiatry is all bunch of nonsense bullshit especially when are all but forced to take dangerous medications that aren't specifically for mental health problems to begin with. Since the mid to late 1990's I have been in and out of psychiatry psych hospitals and group homes. I never want to go through that ever again. Unfortunately I am all but forced to take medications that should be flushed down the toilet or thrown away. My choices are me living with my Mom taking dangerous medications that ultimately will shorten my life span or not take my meds go on conservatorship and let them decide how they want to fuck up my life even further than it already is. These shouldn't be my only options. Btw here are my diagnosis since roughly about age 4. I'm a paranoid schizophrenic only without the paranoia I have OCD ADD ADHD and a touch of audiotary autism. These have all followed me well into adulthood. When I hit my preteens again I was diagnosed with panic attack and anxiety disorder as well moderate depression. All of those have been up drastically since then. I now take Ashwagandha 500mg and Ashwagandha 1,300 stress support since I would rather take those than my Clonazepam 2mg prescription medication which I know can be addictive so I only use it as a last resort. Since the 1990's I have ultimately learned from mental health itself is to lie lie lie. Never let them know that I am truly unhappy and/or depressed and if I do tell I:m depressed play it off and as vaguely as humanly possible. Never tell anyone that I'm suicidal even if I'm feeling that way right and then. Just lie my ass off enough to believed that I'm okay and fine when reality I'm not and lie just enough to get out of there and enough not to be thrown into a mental hospital that does far more harm than good. Because telling someone that you're actually feeling suicidal is treated like a more of a form an ultimate severe punishment more than anything else. For roughly 10 plus years I have been in my own right anti antipsychistry than anything else. I absolutely despise mental with every them with my mind heart body and soul and ultimately ever last fiber of my entire being and then some. Lastly going to a hospital or mental hospital hospital where you are stripped searched like some sort of fucking criminal, when you're real crime is asking or admitting that you might need or need help. I will never trust these types of people ever again and the way burned out bitch nurses take their shit out on their patients and the stupid quack or should I say doctor barely listens to you and acts like doing his damn is an incompetent to them. Below I am listening three links, all from Mad in America, to anyone who is even remotely interested please take a look at them please. www.madinamerica.com/2016/06/forced-treatment-is-torture/ www.madinamerica.com/2018/12/mia-survey-force-trauma-sexual-abuse-mental-hospitals/# www.madinamerica.com/mia-survey-comments/ I purposely have all of theses on my phones main screen so I never forget them. The only reason I keep seeing these bastards in a outpatient clinic is so I can keep getting my medicaid and measly $900ish some odd SSDI check, that is literally the only reason I keep seeing them. And I couldn't be bothered to careless if that is considered abusing them or not. I only go there to see my therapist and my bitch of of a useless prn nurse Syke to get my mental health meds, and another Dr. Trip or at least that's what he tell me to call him to get my cloazepam 2mg my Vistaril of 50mg my Tizanifine 4mg I am and my Lunesta all which I use sparingly.

[@mariaclaraps1971]

OMG about the headphones and people talking to themselves on the streets nowadays… 😂😂😂 I have this exact same sensation! I’m sorry to comment on a banal point given such a wonderful deep interview but this made me literally LOL.

[@plekkchand]

Like this guest very much. Thank you.

[@kentshultz6157]

Nick's point about the epidemic of the self-diagnosis of ADHD is so relatable. Even those of us who do not interact with the thousands of people that a psychology professor like Nick does have met so many people who casually apply this label to themselves with a chuckle and a hint of pride. They absorb the idea of ADHD into their identities. (And Nick's point that this absorption can then perpetuate behavior that actually resembles the condition is critical.) This ego-identification with psychiatric labels can (and does) occur with any 'diagnosis', but certain ones are definitely more fashionable these days (ADHD, OCD). Occasionally I have gently challenged some of these folks on it; of course it rarely goes well. Now I just smile and keep my mouth shut. :)

[@laurabernas4675]

This was a really inspiring conversation particularly Bruce’s comment on this actually being able to be fun and pleasurable because it often times does not feel that way, it can feel like a rigorous up hill battle and a fight with a brick wall 😅

[@daliagrigonyte6872]

I watched beautiful mind, and it helped me a lot in some ways. i absolutely was not aware that the character in real life had come off of medications, so i am so grateful to be able to know this very important factor, if not most important, about this particular story. and on the other hand, if the motivation behind inaccurately portraying this aspect in the film is the fear of reaction, it is so sad that we are so in a negative way influenced by outside factors, because if we did were more free thinkers, we would not be so relying on outside for direction, and then the outside would not be threatened to be what it is, it is such symbiotic relationship between the two, where both are equally at fault, and it is insane that specifically in this situation, such important details because of this phenomena was not being able to be communicated via movie

[@Hasanwiqar]

Psychologists have been trying to prescribe medications in different states but they were rejected by the state legislatures .

[@laurabernas4675]

@nick fortino there is actually a non-profit named Excessive Wealth Disorder Institute

[@averayugen7802]

There's a personal note for Dr Levine on his own page. (9/23/23)

[@dissonantiacognitiva7438]

34:00 on adhd/autism spectrum This is been proven to be related to the lack of synaptic pruning And all these networks of extra synapses firing ok all cylinders make for a noisy brain, hence adhd

[@nicholas1895]

Despite the discrediting of the chemical imbalance theory, the question remains of whether meds still have a place in ameliorating suffering. While for some people they don"t do much (or worse, cause unbearable side effects) for others, they seem to bring them back from the brink and are able to enjoy a bit of life again. Spinoza might dismiss this so quickly, as in his philosophy, anything that increases our bodies capacity to act in the world is seen as a "good".

[@derp195]

34:35 that's only for people looking for an excuse. I have ADHD and autism, and knowing those things allows me to more effectively work on my weak points. I have very specific issues (and advantages) with focus, and identifying them helps me to optimize how I operate. I also have very specific issues with socializing and sensory issues, and identifying those allows me to know what I need to work on, and how best to do it. For me, it's never an excuse, it just adds context. If someone uses it as an excuse, 9/10 times, they're just looking for a way to stagnate.

[@psychologyis]

Very insightful comment. Thank you for expressing this @derp195

[@klausshtein4182]

Thanks a lot for the information. Dear host I very need your advice. How could i contact you?😢🎉

[@mariadaidone1645]

I love the movie “The Beautiful Mind” I am a retired therapist of 32 years and one day I had some free time and I made up a treatment plan of an anonymous client and together with so cold symptoms I created 14 goals for this client I worked mainly worked with low income chronically disabled Also I disagree with Spinoza spiritually is very important

[@kimlec3592]

Have friend who takes amphetamines...very irritable...no sleep til early hours...spend days arranging her stuff...she loves the drugs...they're shortening her tolerance & life span, I fear...

[@jujujudio]

Coping skills. People are so drugged up that group therapy or private therapy is useless. The people talk about the drugs they're taking & nothing else. What kind, what dosage etc. Surreal to witness. And sad.

[@kristinmeyer489]

13:17 So if I'm understanding this, it's considered "better" to mistreat, harm, and marginalize (discredit) INDIVIDUALS than a dishonest institution which knowingly makes misrepresentations and profits from those misrepresentations???????

[@stevemills1593]

😊hi

[@Spider_7_7]

Dr. John Breeding is another psychologist who has called out corruption in his profession.

[@peterstone8366]

Bad thoughts (lies) cause bad feelings (inflamed body) pain, and lead to bad behaviour. Madness (unresolved anger) is mental illness and comes from being judgemental. Judging creates guilt, guilt leads to fear (fear of punishment/death). Increasing fear leads to anger (why are you picking on me). Unresolved anger swells into a state of rage. This explains the origin and consequences of all psychiatric disease. Forgiveness eradicates guilt and all psychiatric disease. You can't give anyone something you haven't received. You cannot forgive unless you have received forgiveness yourself from the highest authority in the universe, GOD. The most powerful source of forgiveness is Christ on the cross, symbolised by snake on the stick, which interestingly is the religious symbol for Scientific Medicine, the Rod of Asclepicus. Even Medicine is a religion, a world view that regards the body as all we have, however a body without a spirit and soul is dead. The spirit (breath of life) of love is the source of life and the soul (the will) is the source of health if it chooses to control the body by balancing the spirit of fear with the spirit of love (life).

[@ryanschwartz1593]

Victim blaming.

[@ryanschwartz1593]

Minute 17-19: individual defect theory

[@ry9348]

❤🎉✌😇🕊

[@kristinmeyer489]

A theory touted by an institution as fact, in order to affect people's brains is, imo unconscionable.

[@Ste2023]

the medics Doctors Got Greedy ... unbelievable Greedy .......they allowed Pharmaceutical Co. to set the rules... Sadly Medical journals r fainted by corruption. Very sad .

[@Heru_Iluvatar]

The Bible is mostly metaphorical. Those who fail to understand the book are excessively left-brained/literal-minded.

[@Hasanwiqar]

This channel is all about bashing Psychiatry

[@MsCosmicstarelder]

haha just passing by..

[@joeshugabowski1444]

Just because we can't test is property doesnt mean problem isn't there. We haven't reached that level. How do you test for paranoid schizophrenia? We can agree that being paranoid and talking to God is abnormal but we can't confirm disorder by testing. Same for headache...we can't deny illness exists

[@extrastout1741]

The issue is that we give medication with serious side effects to people that might not need it and do not make an informed decision. If these drugs were like vitamin c, sure give it to everyone but they are not. Studies discovered that long term people who did not take medication for schizophrenia had a dramatically higher chance of recovering than those on medication. These drugs are forced upon people so what do u do in such a case. I don't believe in banning them but people need to know the real success rate and aide effects.

[@kareendeveraux1847]

I'm not denying there is human suffering from mental problems. Plus there are many reasons for the occurance of positive symptomatics (physical, emotional trauma, drug abuse...) and none of them is adressed by those drugs. They work like drugs and therefore can actually cause psychotic episodes. They don't work, besides short term relief because of sedation and disabling the brain.

[@ryanschwartz1593]

What is 'a property?' 'Being paranoid' and 'talking to God' are defined in the medical model as 'symptoms.' Symptoms of what? You say 'paranoid schizophrenia' but that's just a description of the symptoms -- and one that people are beginning to discard. Headache is also not an illness, but a 'symptom' of an illness. Is there a single underlying pathology, in terms of a brain DEfect that leads to these symptoms? Simply because it is not the normal doesn't make it incoherent with respect to the environment and the person's development. Homosexuality is a good example: it is not 'normal' to be homosexual, and that doesn't make it a disease. Drapetomania was defined as the 'psychiatric disease' leading slaves to run away from their masters in pursuit of freedom. Was it not a coherent response to the situation to seek freedom and want to run away from slavery? It was certainly not the norm for a slave to run away: that doesn't make it a disease or not meaingful or purposeful. A lot of people who become paranoid and begin to have delusions have a long history of trauma and betrayal that makes their response coherent and understandable and even purposeful, not without meaning and simply a result of faulty wiring. Relational hypervigilance, or social anxiety, is often a coherent and adaptive response to a disfunctional family where you have to constantly track other people's feelings to avoid abuse. POW's actually quite often become psychotic during torture, escaping into an inner world of fantasy to flee from the horrific realities of their situation. In this way psychosis is a neat trick the mind can do and not a disease indicative of something 'going wrong' with the body that doesn't make sense as a response to the environment, just like anger or joy. However, there ARE situations in which there is something going wrong physiologically, as in the case of late stage syphillis causing psychosis. BUT, not every person with psychosis has late stage syphillis, and not every person with psychosis is reacting to an endogenous disturbance. So 'we haven't reached that level' because there is no single physiological, psychological, or social reason why people become anxious or depressed or psychotic: there are a whole variety of endogenous factors, like sleep apnea and hypoglycemia or orthostatic intolerance, that can present BEHAVIORALLY as depression or anxiety or psychosis, and NONE of them are the same underlying physiological process ; and exogenous factors, like trauma and abuse and bullying and poverty, in response to which depression and anxiety and psychosis and substance abuse would be meaningful human RESPONSES and not a sign of something physiologically 'faulty' that could be called a disease. Talking to God is also not considered to always be a 'symptom.' Psychiatrists allow exceptions to their rules: for instance many in the psychiatric profession and society at large have experiences of 'talking to God' that aren't socially constructed as pathological. This highlights the fluid and social nature of what we're talking about: how can the same 'symptom' be a sign of a disease in one context and not in another?

[@kimlec3592]

@@ryanschwartz1593 Thank you for writing on here. Keep writing/talking common sense.

[@MrBluemanworld]

So milquetoast....

[@psychologyis]

?

[@annaynely]

adhd= trauma, dr janina fisher