Bruce Wayne As the Mask is NONSENSE

[@kwingsletsplays]

The true Identity of Batman/Bruce Wayne has flipped back in forth for about 40 Years Now. It depends on the Writer and the show. Some Batmen have Psychological Trauma that the Human aspect of Bruce was replaced with Vengeance and his rage tampared over time. 1970s- 1999 Batman, BTAS and Justice League & JLU perfect example of this. However Bruce Wayne as the center persona and Batman as Mask was a Silver Age concept and mid 2000s. Such as the fugitive run you described and the 2004 The Batman Show. The 2008 Batman show as well, Brave and the bold to a more comedic take with Bruce and batman being duel personalities. But it all depends on Who is writing the story. Bruce Timm like the Animted series, made Batman the real Identity of Bruce in the Caped Crusader. Dini Who studied Psychology, wanted to give the DC Characters more complextity and mental illlness/ Trauma and did the same to Batman. Giving the Villians more then just outside scars, but inside as well. He re imagined Two-Face, Clayface, Ivy, Mr Freeze and Mad Hatter among others. But also made Batman fight with His persona's of Bruce & Batman on various occassions. Especially Battle of the mind centered episodes. Some of the best of Dini's writing tbh. Kevin Conroy also held this belief that Bruce was the performance and Batman was Who He is. A Child screaming Vengeance into the Night forced to Grow up and deliver Justice. The Arkham Batman shares Kevin's stance as well and it's Batman who returns at the End of AK. But then SSKTJ had to ruin it.... Still overall It's not really a nonsense Idea or "average pov" it's been ultized longer then I've been alive. But again writers like to go back and forth. Some that like the idea of Batman suffering tremendous Mental angish and supressing His Humanity. Others like to have Batman and Bruce wanye battling for control. And lastly some just like the idea of Bruce being the man personality and Batman is like a Job, like the Keaton films. At the end of the Day, it all depends on Who is telling the Story and how they view Batman. Currently DC comics has Bruce Wayne being the real Identity. But Matt Reeves and Bruce Timm works The Batman & Caped Crusader see Batman as the real Bruce. Well made video though.

[@KOFNY]

I completely agree and that's how I've always seen it. Just depends on the writer. The Batman film and even Batfleck really leaned into that aspect of Batman is the real one and Bruce Wayne is the mask. A huge criticism of the Bale movies by a lot of fans was that they did the opposite. Great comment. I feel like 95% of comic debates can be ended with "Depends on the writer".

[@akilbrazier1421]

This right here is the best answer to this whole debate. It depends on who’s writing Batman and what they think of him. I’m primarily one of the people that sees Bruce (the playboy) as the mask and Batman being the closest to Bruce’s real personality, but M Enterprises and other people make good points to argue the opposite. But what I think they misunderstand is that we’re (or at least I’m speaking for myself) not saying that Bruce Wayne being a philanthropist and stuff like that is fake or an act. It’s mostly the playboy/partier side that he displays to the public to throw suspicions off that I say is the act. But of course him caring about people and helping people is both Bruce and Batman.

[@1highvelocity1]

Kwing you're a legend please make a video on this subject please

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

This feels like a good legacy conversation between an Old DC KZbinr, and a New DC KZbinr. I get chills reading this, especially when I used to watch Kwing’s videos when I was a kid. So it reminds me of the episode Batman Brave & the Bold where Dedrich Bader’s Batman meets up with Kevin Conroy’s Zur-En-Argh. Or the BTAS Episode where Kevin Conroy’s Batman meets up with Adam West who played the Grey Ghost in that episode.

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think though, that when some people make the argument that Bruce Wayne is the mask, they consider every part of his persona as Bruce/when he’s not Batman as some sort of entire facade. Just completely made up, head to toe, from the moment he lost his parents. But in these comics, even when Batman acts predominately, you see the differences. Bruce Wayne fights for the Amazon not to be torn down in BTAS, Bruce takes in Robin in most stories, Bruce unveils new technology to help people in The Batman (show), Bruce attends the funeral and seems to take notice of the child in The Batman (movie), Bruce Wayne fights to close down Arkham City in AC, etc. All of these cannot be “Batman”, they MUST be Bruce, as much as you could say other points of Bruce’s character are facades. I think THAT’S where the distinction is

[@crystalpokedude4329]

In defense of the Batman Beyond "That's not what I call myself" line, you have to keep in mind that this is a Bruce who has lost everyone in his life tethering him to his personal life. Dick and Barbara walked out and Tim was mentally broken by the Joker and wasn't the same after that point. Bruce's arc in that show is that he's alone because he pushed everyone away to keep being Batman and now he has to let people in again. In that context, Bruce saying "that's not what I call myself" makes sense. He pushed everyone away to be Batman so he has nothing left as Bruce, and it's been that way for 30+ years.

[@joshjones9749]

Beyond Bruce is basically everything that currrent Bruce fights himself NOT to become lol

[@rungunninja1289]

Batman beyond is a great show but good lord does it make Batman look more miserable than it needs to be. Like seriously I get all the old team moving on but at least you think a few do what Superman did(even if he was controlled at the time) and visit him every few months. Bruce being a lonely old man is realistic but not to the extent they made it in the show. Especially with dick. Every other robin sure(his assassin son doesn’t exist yet or at all in jlu.)

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

​@@joshjones9749 its also why he offically retired he had to use a Gun to stop the bad guy

[@FinalFantasyIV]

@@rungunninja1289Superman is Batman friend, not Bruce, they met at super heroes and even if they are best friends, they always meet with the costumes on, even if Superman didn’t leave him, he is more of a Batman thing than Bruce Wayne

[@cunnyman]

Keep in mind this is fkin written by Bruce Timm. That man wrote great stories but gets a lot of characters WRONG.

[@GenerationWest]

Bruce has three faces: Playboy Bruce, Batman, and Real Bruce (the ones his friends and family see) this should be known and taught to everyone.

[@billyboleson2830]

Real Bruce is basically how Batman acts whenever he’s in the bat cave

[@SMLL-crow]

More recently feels like he traded in his playboy persona to be the bat-dad, at least since alfreds been gone.

[@yamanaaustralis96]

Batman & Superman have a Triple Identity

[@lexofpower2822]

@@yamanaaustralis96yea I’d say that is a fair assessment.

[@lexofpower2822]

@@yamanaaustralis96yea I’d say that’s a fair assessment.

[@TevyaSmolka]

I personally maintained Bruce Wayne calls himself Batman to criminals but to his friends and allies he’s Bruce Wayne which makes sense.

[@shadowanderson2004]

Even though there’s evidence that Batman calls himself Batman in his own head. When asked who he is by Diana with the lasso of truth he literally says “Batman”

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@shadowanderson2004 that’s true and you’re right about that

[@mantraki]

​@@shadowanderson2004I like to think that it isn't that he thinks he is batman, it's just that when he has the mask on he gaslights himself so hard into thinking he is batman that he assumes that persona is his true self

[@shadowanderson2004]

@@mantraki or that when the mask is on he is Batman

[@forastero54321]

@@shadowanderson2004what he believes and what is reality isn’t always yhe truth. The lasso forces people to tell what they believe but not what actually is the truth. Obviously Bruce believes himself to be Batman’s because that’s the path he’s chosen, but the reality is that if batman was his main identity then he’d be no different from joker, or poison ivy, or two face.

[@Vasanth-CS]

Batman: Thomas Wayne would never kill since he believed in sanctity of all life and would never kill Thomas Wayne Batman: She slipped

[@Superlad9494]

That's just one Thomas Wayne version, the regular was a little concerned about the Zorro thing, but Alfred told them if he didn't....Gotham while it's still a mess is less of one.

[@xavierrivera3407]

@@Superlad9494 This is also a Thomas Wayne who watched his son get gunned down and his wife go literally insane with grief to the point that she cut her own mouth open. Needless to say the Thomas Wayne Bruce knows and the Thomas Wayne we see in flash point are to different people who went through different things and life.

[@happysocialmoth1197]

@@xavierrivera3407and this is the same Thomas Wayns who literally lead bane and let him TWIST Alfred’s neck, killing him💀💀💀

[@leaffinite2001]

Flashpoint is an alt universe, so its needlessly edgey in at least a few ways

[@Dorian_Kellum]

I can see Bruce telling himself this, as a type of “defense” to try and keep people at a distance, but with it not actually being true. The real Bruce is the one in the cave with Alfred and the kids, and the League in the Watchtower.

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

Yep

[@horushyperion76]

Okay idk about in the Tower; He performs as Batman to his fellow league members most of the time.

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

@@horushyperion76 Well he also does that in the Batcave. He’s just more himself and chill in the Batcave rather than the Watchtower, usually due to the Watchtower being more job focused

[@edadragneel1569]

I think the real him is a mix of both. A lot of the “highs” of Bruce Wayne aren’t him, and a lot of the “lows” of Batman aren’t him either. He’s more serious than he portrays himself as Bruce Wayne, and he’s more silly goofy than he portrays himself as Batman. He just channels one aspect of his personality completely into Batman to be able to survive out on the streets of Gotham, and the other aspects into Bruce Wayne in order to survive in high society. They’re both the real him, they’re just kept separate for the most part.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

I wish Hollywood would understand this and find a balance between serious and campy instead of choosing only one to focus on.

[@jflexy1344]

they're the exact same person there's no shift in personality like some comics would portray, it's just that as batman crime fighting is a risky job that requires putting your life on the line fighting these psychotic freaks especially in Gotham so his more serious and focus on the mission as we wayne takes his crusade for justice very seriously where as being bruce wayne a rich billionaire what really does he got to be so serious about all the time.

[@whateverwhatever4476]

Exactly

[@baligong3592]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp I don't think that's an Issue of Hollywood, I think that's an issue of Batman in general, including fan interpretation. We still got people arguing how Batman got kicked from the Justice League because of the Contingency Plans. Tower of Babel was more of Batman's Diary being stolen and used against him, and he felt so bad for what has happened he quit the JL. We have panels where DC Trinity holds the Lasso and they all reveal their names. Superman says every version of his name, and Batman just says "Batman". On the side note, Comics have to stop having Batman be the source of his own Problems, alongside hounding on his own Family. He's like a Drunk Man that everyone keeps around, cause they want to fix someone despite not wanting to be fixed.

[@Batx0123LOLXD]

Ya definitely a lot of his charisma and charm is just natural and genuine but he never lets himself truly go and be happy

[@matthewpopescu3670]

Honestly the way people conflate the “playboy billionaire” aspect of Bruce Wayne as his only defined character trait is the shit I hate most, it’s as if people can’t have any semblance of depth without having some hidden alter-ego be a “true face” like huh??💀

[@TheShockVox]

Another example of why I hate Zack’s take on Batman, and how he doesn’t understand. In BvS he has some random woman in his bed that he slept with as a way of “self medicating”. She’s a blink and you’ll miss it. Never watched an episode of the show, but even Superhero Girls show has Bruce be a party guy. I’m not against the guy occasionally having fun on the town whether it’s genuine or just a cover, (even Bruce in The Batman 2004 show had dates and such) but some folks exaggerate it too far.

[@baligong3592]

The Batman 2004 is how I see Batman, because they do a good job in showing what kind of person Bruce Wayne is when he isn't Batman. - He has Friends and enjoys the company of Ethan Bennett - He does Parties, sure! But they're classy and Stylised like a Victorian Party. - Bruce loves Basketball, he's shown going to a Basketball Game, and even playing Basketball himself! - Bruce actually attends meetings for his company, and personally hires who needs jobs. Hell, he defeated BlackMask by hiring everyone under his employ. - Bruce admires Art and Theatre, often attending different museums and appreciating History. The Batman 2004 is truly the most healthiest version of Batman there can be, and might ever be. Especially not just because he's healthy-minded as Batman, but his Bruce Wayne Persona is not a mask, but part of who he is!

[@SiriusM13]

Batman 2004 is goated

[@akilbrazier1421]

@@TheShockVox Another thing Snyder doesn’t understand and got wrong about Batman (besides the obvious one with the no kill rule) is his intellect level and detective skills. You want me to believe that Bruce is so dumb and so blindly angry that he’d get so emotional as to want to kill Superman without knowing anything about him, only for him to not want to kill him anymore because their moms have the same name?😑 And you also expect me to believe that Lex can so easily outsmart and manipulate Bruce by sending him a note on an article saying “you let your family die”?! Lois did more fucking research pertaining who actually killed those people and framed Superman than Batman did, and he’s supposed to be the world’s greatest detective with 20 years on the job while Lois is just a journalist. Give me a break 🤦🏽‍♂️ I get that Lex is also a genius, but it seemed like Batman was easily manipulated in this movie. And it’s even worse because, again, he’s had 20 years on the job! Sorry I went on a tirade. BvS as a movie just still makes me mad 😂

[@Murdstone12]

@@baligong3592 2004 bats will always be my 2nd favorite batman outside of Bruce Timm's version

[@Xedlord]

For a solid 5 minutes I thought the argument was about a theory that Bruce Wayne had a second, even more secret identity as someone named "The Mask".

[@SecretMagician]

Well, he was Matches Malone a couple of times. Does that count?

[@firdanharbima6997]

Where do you think his detective smart come from

[@fuseteam]

*cartoon noises* somebody stop me

[@matthewschwartz6607]

That was just an alias he used in the 1970’s.

[@obaolade1232]

bruce throwing it back is wild

[@DrDolan2000]

"I am both Bruce Wayne and Batman. Not because I have to be; I choose to be" - Batman Forever

[@Alderan3344]

the one good quote from that movie.

[@saltiresamurai9215]

I remember watching Batman the Brave and the Bold and he was confronting Joe Chill. He took off his mask and he had Joe at his Mercy. The Spectre was acted like the devil on his shoulder saying ‘He’s seen your face. If you don’t kill him, Batman will die’ and Bruce responds ‘Batman may die. But Bruce Wayne never’.

[@legofan370]

Literally Joel fucking Schumacher understood this too. "You see... I'm both Bruce Wayne and Batman, not because I have to be... but because I choose to be." The entirety of Batman Forever was denouncing the previous two movies made by a guy who didn't understand Batman. He was showing that Bruce and Batman were one in the same. Not a mask over the other. Which confirms it when MFE says "Without Bruce Wayne, you just get a sophisticated version of the Punisher" which is essentially... Tim Burton's Batman.

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

I meeeeeean….. It kind of counters what’s shown in the Tim movies, but that’s sort of just a different Batman (alike in many ways, different in some). Bruce still did plenty of things for the city and connected with friends and family during those movies, and hell, he was even gonna adopt a Robin in that side. He was debating on letting Vicki (I think she’s on in 89) and Selina into his life, and to see the real him. Yes, it was letting them know and learn about Batman being Bruce Wayne, but it was far beyond just Batman being the only thing. I think Forever did it amazingly, and delved pretty deep into what makes Bruce Bruce, but it wasn’t ONLY a Batman and no Bruce movie in 89 and Returns

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Thank you because it was always weird that if he saw himself as Batman only, why not discard the rest of the Bruce Wayne identity? He still misses his parents, he still responds to the name Bruce Wayne and has a lot of love for his family name.

[@Wizofmincraft]

Well that’s because being bruce wayne is about as close as he can get to his dead parents now, and him having the time to go out and be bruce sometimes let’s him Keep some form of sanity.

[@shhh5743]

It’s literally the perfect disguise why are we acting like we don’t know this stuff😭😭. He does good for the city of Gotham as Bruce Wayne just differently whether that be fun raisers or charity events. Think about the sheer amount of things in bruce Wayne can do in the light that Batman can’t do in the dark. The fact that bro liked the comment is insane cause he made a whole video and doesn’t even understand the topic.

[@marygonzalez2472]

@@shhh5743 Still doesn't excuse the writers screwing Gotham over and over again. I bet that if he was aware of the 4th wall, he'd be pissed at them.

[@Lelouchvibritania986]

W PFP I LOVE CODE GEASS

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@Lelouchvibritania986 I do to

[@Batman88878]

The way I see it, Bruce Wayne is the vessel. The only real "mask" is the playboy persona. The Bruce we see when he's with the Bat-Family & the Justice League when not in costume & the Batman are equal parts of his true self. Batman is what Bruce's anger, determination & drive manifest itself as. Family Bruce is the "human" part of him that like M Enterprises said keeps Batman grounded & honest. The part that allows him to have a whole group of costumed loved ones & his compassionate side that compels him to never take a life & try to improve his city.

[@sizar9003]

I think it makes sense in Batman beyond when Bruce is old and cut off all communication with his friends. He really is just Batman now

[@pianist150]

I think Dennis O’Neil said that to him there’s 3 personas. The Bruce he presents to the world, Batman who he presents to criminals and some combination of the 2 that he is when he’s around Alfred and Dick etc.

[@MegaJetty1]

Thank you for acknowledging this. I always believed that Bruce Wayne was the real face because, as said in Batman Forever, he is BOTH Bruce Wayne AND Batman, not because he has to be, but because he CHOOSES to be. Also, like Bill said in Kill Bill Volume 2. "Batman wasn't born Batman, he was born Bruce Wayne. Bruce has to get up every morning and put on the Batman suit in order to be Batman."

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Batman the Brave and the Bold shows this finely. In Chill of the night.

[@logicaltips4107]

"Batman may die, but Bruce Wayne... never."

[@marcogonzalez9673]

I think the best way Batman is interpreted is in the The Batman movie. To him, he's Batman and Bruce Wayne is dead, so he acts like it. Bruce Wayne sighting is rare in Gotham and he hardly does anything, it got to the point that the mayor talked to him about just sitting on all his money doing literally nothing. But he's not, he's crime fighting as Batman. It's when Riddler decided to flood an entire city where things get so bad he's like "I gotta do a lot more than just be Batman" so I think he's gonna help out as Bruce Wayne with all his money AND be Batman, and as Bruce Wayne, HOPEFULLY, he adopts Dick Grayson.

[@queenredcat6096]

YES! I see alot of people saying this is just an emo version of Batman and Pattinson didn't portray Bruce well but my take away from it is this is early days. Bruce is just now figuring things out, Managing, Moving on, I think in the next movie he`ll be figuring out his public playboy persona, Doing more charity stuff, Ditch the sunglass indoors, And maybe by the next or third film adopt the recently orphaned boy he saw on his date at the circus.

[@scpunknown6369]

a lot of people didn’t like the failsafe arc but i thought it was important for modern day batman comics, its shows the importance of bruce’s circle and how him being a full time batman hurts his loved ones like jason, the build up and conclusion shows that batman needs bruce and bruce needs his family

[@christophermitchell9739]

It's followup Zur en Arrh arc shows it even more! I love that Zur really does show what a Batman with no Bruce looks like and ultimately he's a worse Batman in more ways than one.

[@nexik680]

I like to think that Batman is a coping mechanism to keep what's left of Bruce Wayne safe. The minutes his parents died immediately turned into a man. I know I stopped being a teenager the minute I found out my dad cheated on my mom, and my family kept it for me.

[@ZeonicZaku1-Zeon_Grunt_Suit]

"If this man lives, Batman dies." "Batman may die, but Bruce Wayne? Never!"

[@JLRules]

It was Bruce Wayne who lost his parents. It was Bruce Wayne who decided to fight crime for the rest of his life. It was Bruce Wayne who spent the better part of two decades training his mind and body. Batman was never even a thing until he was ready to start, and the right thing flew into the study through the window. He emphasises/exaggerates different aspects to suit the situation (in public, on the streets, with allies, and even sometimes to his detriment), but it has ALWAYS been Bruce Wayne at the heart of things.

[@NewUltraHero]

Bruce Wayne will forever be the OG Batman

[@DevilWillCry222]

The brilliance of Kevin Conroy's performance. He separated Batman and Bruce while still being genuine. But there is a third performance that gets overlooked, Bruce in the cave, the real man with neither mask. Rest in peace Kevin. Thank you. Great video man.

[@TheN1ghtwalker]

When the character literally spells it out loud but some people are still like "Nah, that's not how I want things to be".

[@Dumbsourplum]

To be fair Bruce isn't the most adjusted person and also there are MANY interpretations of batman so depending on your preferences you can choose either belief, personally Arkham batman is the perfect batman for me, Recently I played Batman Arkham games, I played Knight at first cuz it was on PSN nad my subscription was running out and there Batman was always quiet and serious and I thought that's just what Batman was in Arkham until I started asylum where he was serious and quiet yes but he was also witty and sarcastic sometimes, he spoke genuinely like well...a guy, really made me appreciate how they changed him in Knight to reflect how hard it was for him emotionally, that's batman to me, a guy

[@Degdreams]

Considering the fact that comics have multiple writers and multiple interpretations, the idea of "fanon" is actually sensible and justified. I like to interpret Batman's reluctance to kill as more of a trauma response and mental block rather than as a simple morale choice, because Batman is far too smart to leave that decision as unbreakably black and white instead of gray with nuance. So that being said, while youre being sarcastic, I respond with a "Yes... Because its better that way."

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

@@Dumbsourplum I see it. But wouldn’t you say that most versions MUST have Bruce Wayne be a part of who Batman is? Like in Arkham, it’s Bruce who did all the security increases for the Asylum

[@guardiantree8879]

Batman has kinda told himself a lie. He thinks he’s all Batman. As you pointed out that isn’t quite true, but it’s his viewpoint & possibly a coping mechanism. Superman considers himself Clark Kent first, SM second. Batman thinks of himself as Batman 1st, Bruce second, then playboy Bruce as his cover. Based on the stories you shared, it’s quite evident this is something Batman struggles with & it makes for good storytelling.

[@jamesg1385]

“Of course the playboy billionaire is the mask” THAT IS WHAT EVERYBODY MEANS WHEN THEY SAY BRUCE WAYNE IS A MASK GOOFY. Dawg it isn’t a split personality he can act like himself when he doesn’t wear the suit

[@Cosmicmorales]

Yeah it’s called an alter ego 😂

[@bennycaustic5102]

Batman is a pure character who doesn't stray from his code, Bruce Wayne is not that guy. He doesn't lock up cat woman, 2 of his kids have serious kill count numbers, etc. Bruce Wayne is always there, the humanity and imperfection of a person over a symbol.

[@reidcunningham5906]

THANK YOU!!! I always tell people that you can't have one without the other! Bruce helps the city just as much as Batman. Batman is for the emergencies NOW, and Bruce helps for the future.

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

Right. Because it’s not just Batman for his crusade against crime, it’s Bruce for healing and rebuilding the city

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

I can’t think of a more perfect way of discussing this point. Perfect video. Every single thing, from the examples that show your point and the ones that people misconstrue, to the abstract understanding of Bruce and why he even is Batman to begin with, to testing the counter arguments, to discussing why he should be Bruce Wayne and Batman. Perfect

[@joeker5208]

I know a lot of people have the DCAU’s interpretation of Batman as the “Definitive Batman”, but it’s not. No offense to any of the writers or actors of that universe. But I find it very ignorant to just say that this one universe is the all-time version of the character, past and present. When not only do we have HUNDREDS of people to write many different versions of Batman. But the mainline comics’ version has existed for nearly a hundred years, with different tales being given. And despite those differences, there are always so many different core elements that make up these unique Batmen. One line from Beyond is not gonna just magically apply to every take on such a long running/iconic character. It’s just take from those creatives of their Batman

[@kennethsatria6607]

Yeah and its also a world where Bruce may or may not have had a relationship with Barbara Gordon. So... its just a world that is mostly well liked, it has its own imperfections. I kind of hope that something happened to alter events that the future seen in JLU would have made present Bruce turn his life around. So that the Epilogue episode while the family retired he didn't irreparably burn all his bridges.

[@SapphireKnight675]

to be fair, most people likely saw that than the comics at a certain point

[@chrispeart1394]

You're gonna get cooked for this but you really are spittin

[@Wizofmincraft]

That’s the thing though with all these interpretation’s people are going to have their own definitive version that they think of when they hear batman 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@joeker5208]

@@kennethsatria6607 he seems to have fixed his relationships with Tim and Barbara in RotJ. Probably best if we leave the DCAU timeline (at least regarding the Batman mythos) alone

[@Goobergurl]

We need more Batman fans like you that know what they talking about. As a hardcore Batman fan I'm grateful that you're out here educating everyone. Underrated channel for sure!

[@sahandehteshami7404]

Batman is the incorruptible ideal symbol. Bruce wayne is the human that wears this symbol. (Dark knight trilogy)

[@johnjordan211]

Non canon crap

[@TheSsjJoker]

The way I see it to me his true identity is Batman but that being said Bruce isn’t just the mask per say that’s still who he is, Bruce Wayne is still Batman and Batman is Bruce Wayne

[@Eniggma39]

I mean there’s Bruce, Bruce Wayne and Batman Bruce Wayne, the playboy is a total mask Batman is Bruce way to cope, it’s a bit of a mask but not as much as Bruce Wayne Bruce is who he truly is: the kid in the alley

[@BurningBushProductions]

I believe that Bruce wants to believe that Bruce is just a mask… but in reality that’s not true. Bruce is his humanity. The thing that connects him to the people he’s trying to protect. And over the years he tends to reconnect with that part of himself more and more. Batman wouldn’t take in an orphan boy because it would interfere with the mission. But Bruce… Bruce knows that boy’s pain and shows him kindness. Bruce is at the core of Batman. Not the other way around.

[@shakeelthomas1660]

Bruce: My father would not kill Thomas: yeah, about that son

[@orlandojosemoraamaya363]

Different earth

[@kaine8911]

It depends on the version. I personally prefer the idea that the Wayne's were good people who cared about Gotham, makes their deaths even more tragic. But versions where they're corrupt like TellTales is also interesting and puts Bruce in an interesting light.

[@C.R.Cole331]

Both are masks. Bruce in reality is not what he tries everyone to think of him with or without the cowl. His real personality and his true essence lies in the version that only him, the Bat-Family and at some point Superman can see.

[@mrksimka1159]

Yeah I always said “Batman is who he wants to be, Bruce Wayne is who he has to be, real him is the one sitting in a batcave talking to Alfred, Grayson and whoever else present at the moment.”

[@haha-lj5sq]

This. He’s not really the sleazy playboy billionaire nor the cold merciless symbol of justice.

[@ArtsyCraftYT]

I agree and the only mask part I do believe is the playboy part, I don't see Bruce or Batman to be a playboy but the rest isn't a mask, both Batman and Bruce Wayne, makes him who he is. He's both through and through.

[@doctorjay8673]

The problem with associating identities is assuming that identities are static things that never change. At some point we're this and another that then go back to this. Staying at one is almost never going to happen. Batman is the same. There will be days he just wants to shut everything out and focus on his mission, that's when he's really the Batman. Other days he will indulge in his life and be around people he genuinely cares about but will definitely never show it openly, those days Bruce takes over. He's not one or the other, its more like copilots taking shifts when the mood is right.

[@JaxonPham]

Idk I think there are potentially some misunderstandings with this take for some people like myself. Personally I always subscribed to the idea of Bruce being the mask only because I always saw every genuine good deed from Bruce wayne as really being from Batman. In other words, I see one persona (that being Batman) but that persona doesn't JUST consist of the dark crime-fighting qualities of Batman, but also the human and compassionate qualities that you're attributing to Bruce. I like the idea that the Bruce Wayne he would have become (one without trauma) died in that alley with his parents especially considering that the bat-family essentially resurrects that bruce from the dead in a sense.

[@JaxonPham]

What I get annoyed with is when people joke that batman's super power is "being rich" as if money is what makes batman op and not being the smartest person in the room with a plan and prep time for any situation. That being said, as long as the take isn't "Batman kills" I'm happy.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

True, and there _is_ some credence to this. But just because he _feels_ like his true self as Batman, doesn't mean Bruce is gone... After all, like you said, he learns to get a new family anyways. So even if he says Bruce is just a mask that mask, just like his cowl, will always be on him.

[@austint6029]

My favorite batman sce e is batman brave and the bold where he confronted joe chill and revealed who he was and specter telling him "if you let him live the batman is dead" Bruce Wayne say "Batman may die, but Bruce Wayne the man never" i love this scene, because it shows that batman is the mask and Bruce Wayne is the one wearing it

[@BlazorA02]

Funny how "Batman Forever" managed to ask and answer that question pretty well!!!

[@bullymaguire513]

Thank you. I can't stand it when people imply that Bruce will never ever be able to smile every now and then. He has to be human

[@krisscott5342]

Theres an arc in Grant Morrison's JLA run where the League's hero identities become separate entities from their civilian ones. There's a line where Eel O'brien says, "Everyone thinks when you separate Batman and Bruce Wayne, you get a psychopath and a fop, which is true. Just not the way you think." Batman has all the skills, but the rage, the anger, the drive, that's all bottled up in Bruce. And it almost kills him.

[@doodtheman2508]

He is a balance between the two, because we know Zurr is supposed to be "pure" Batman, and he's become a crazed villain because of it.

[@yourpalbryan1442]

Bruce Wayne as the child of Thomas and Martha Wayne, Heir to Wayne Enterprises and rich kid extraordinaire was forced to grow up that night after the opera. Bruce Wayne the teenager was the one who travelled to various masters and trained with them to prepare himself for the life of fighting crime in Gotham he would put himself into. It was Bruce's fear of bats that inspired the Bat theming and mantle because "i fear bats, its time others shared that fear" as i think the Dark Knight movie put it, and then we have the Bruce he uses as a cover with the board of Wayne Enterprises, at high class parties and press conferences, the fun loving playboy billionaire who could buy out the newspaper company Clark Kent works at just because. I think that playboy *is* the mask, because thats what the persona was made for: To cover his identity as a costumed vigilante. But ultimately everything Batman is or was inspired by came from Bruce Wayne first in some way whether its Thomas' morals inspiring his no-kill rule, or his fear of bats inspiring his vigilante aesthetic, these are all Bruce. You know what else is Bruce? The money used to fund his vigilantism, because how else is he gonna afford the fancy car, constant supply of gadgets, the FUCKING SPACE STATION THE JUSTICE LEAGUE USES?! Come on guys, Bruce is the real guy here. Batman wouldnt exist without Bruce

[@papadankspza7134]

You're actually spitting rn 🔥🔥

[@olivitaspochasTV]

Bruce is working towards the day Batman isn't needed anymore. Great video!

[@garrettdarkstar2647]

Bruce Wayne is the humanity that keeps him in reality. He is the morals and ethics. "The Bat" is the vengeful Darkness that rooted from his trauma. The one that wants to kill those to get justice. Bruce and The Bat cannot exist without each other. They are separate personalities, and seperate sides. But when Bruce and the Bat are together, they make Batman. The Bat and Man together to make a unified being balanced with light and darkness.

[@knghtbrd]

The "Bruce Wayne died that day" and "Batman is all but psychotic" notions really became the standard after Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, but I don't think those things describe a composite of the character over its full history. In fact, I'd say what best does is DCAU's take on the character. He's the one who would do anything he could to help Gotham and its people, including the villains. He protects children, the homeless, the environment, and anything else. Bruce Wayne couldn't battle the crime, so Bruce created a persona who could. But to protect the people he cares about, he had to invent a persona to explain his injuries and to ensure that nobody could believe that he was Batman. If "Bruce Wayne died", it was then, as an adult, when Batman realized that Bruce Wayne had to become someone he wasn't. And as we know from the comics, Batman _has_ taken active steps to address his subconscious, so sure … "Tell that to my subconscious."

[@Hughes81]

There is a great passage from Greg Rucka's Novelization of "No Mans Land" with Batman trying to remember how to be Bruce Wayne.

[@poopooman-q7r]

idk where this misconception came from cause batman ego and dark knight returns exist. Bruce wayne is bruce wayne. he might put on an act in a social setting, but bruce wayne is his own man. Batman is just a manifestation of his grief and torment. Batman isn't necessarily a mask and neither is bruce wayne they're just two sides of the same coin

[@paradoxinraindrops141]

The New 52 interaction I take as a joke, but just as much a showcase of Batman’s mental fortitude. Especially if this the Big 3’s first meet? Batman will keep his identity secret. The DCAU Batman will always be my favorite, but I was never crazy for the Bruce is “dead” logic. Great video!

[@Batman-fg4wu]

2:00 Hold up, love the video but uh, lemme take a look at the sauce before I continue this....

[@mhelm0225]

It's fine in some stories, but for the most part I never liked that interpretation of Bruce's character. It implies he's so detached from reality that it's impossible for him to experience genuine emotions as Bruce Wayne or have real connections with his civilian identity. One of the reasons I liked BTAS and the 2004 Batman so much is that he had longtime friends he saw often, and even played an important role in the plot of some episodes.

[@mal1362]

Batman does believe hes batman, but not just batman. Batman is who everyone sees, bruce wayne is who those who are very close to him sees. Still the same person one is just gor stranger danger the other is these are my close friends. Playboy bruce wayne is the mask for sure.

[@yodudeyo100]

Great video man! This kicks ass and I completely agree with you!

[@alceatropelado9596]

Bruce Wayne isn't The Mask. The Mask is Stanley Ipkiss

[@mystiqueuser4919]

Joel Schumacher hit it right on the nose with Batman Forever. He knew he was BOTH Bruce Wayne, AND Batman

[@V4Now]

Batman Forever has the most mature take on the whole concept of the duality. For all its faults, Schumacher got that right.

[@zechariahanderson98]

If you could create your own teen titans and you have to choose 7 core heroes who would it be and who would be leader and who would be the big villain

[@TheShockVox]

If it’s “Teen” Titans…hm: Tim Drake Robin as leader, Conner Kent Superboy, Cassie Sandsmark Wonder Girl, Amy Allen Bombshell, Rose Wilson Ravager, pre-Rebirth/pre-Flashpoint Jackson Hyde Aqualad, and Mia Dearden Speedy. No idea for a big villain, it’ll be arc by arc basis. Kind of like how the Teen Titans from 2003 up to 2011 were.

[@zechariahanderson98]

@@TheShockVox my team would have been starfire blue beetle beast boy Damian as roben raven static shock and superboy Dona Troy as Wonder girl that would be my team

[@Strive_Higher]

@@TheShockVoxwhy pre rebirth/pre flashpoint aqualad?

[@sarcasmwillbemymiddlename8622]

1:17 bro I thought this scene was just from fanfiction 💀💀 I love that

[@mcl4549]

YES THANK YOU! This idea has been floating around in my head for a while I am so glad you talked about it!

[@gustavocavaca1757]

The "billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne" trope is only 50% true. He's not just a "billionaire playboy". He's Bruce Wayne, a man who wants to do good for his people. Batman just wants the same thing

[@BlahNetworkBro]

I actually really enjoy you dismantling these superhero misconceptions. As someone who has been reading more comics again people really just do be saying shit like the writers aren’t tuned into culture ever. I’m really enjoying Tom Taylor’s titans and the focus the team has had on rescue and reparation.

[@theweldo]

Bro THANK YOU! I’ve been waiting for someone to make this video for years.

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

Batman is Bruce's Alternate persona. Like Slim Shady is Eminem's Alternate persona.

[@nwah15]

May I have your attention please? Will the real slim batsy please stand up, Will the real slim batsy please stand up? We're gonna have a problem here

[@GenesisGunn]

Lol...slim shady. Rest in peace Chino Xl..Eminem owes you everything.

[@barriolimbas]

Not the average Batman fan's opinion, it's often cited by Denny O'Neil. Compared to Superman, which is just a disguise Clark wears, or Oliver Queen, as the same, in or out of costume. Note: this is Bruce Wayne in public, not when he's in private with the Bat family. His Bat family calls him Bruce, but as the real Bruce who is the crime fighter.

[@G.R-w9w]

What's your point

[@barriolimbas]

@@G.R-w9w keep fishing Troll

[@barriolimbas]

"what's your point". Don't block comments you don't like. And stop stalking Troll.

[@monobro141]

Bruce Wayne is Batman's human side and I can't be convinved otherwise

[@JoybuzzerX]

Bruce Wayne calling himself Batman in his head, doesn't mean Bruce Wayne is the mask. It just means it's what he calls himself in his head. One of the things I liked in Batman Forever, is he said "I am both Batman and Bruce Wayne"

[@jondrake1977]

Bruce Wayne realized in a comic book that he wouldn't have his moral code without Thomas and Martha Wayne. Therefore, it is because he IS Bruce Wayne that he doesn't kill people. He keeps his parents memory alive by not killing anyone.

[@Thromaz]

"Now swear on the lasso of truth by your true name" "Diana of Themyscira" "Clark Kent " "Batman"

[@LUCKO2022]

I was going to say this.

[@billyboleson2830]

The recent Zur comics throw a wrench in this

[@Alderan3344]

​@@billyboleson2830how?

[@jim-bob3093]

God i despise the 'Bruce is the Mask' angle. Like, he has kids, wtcf Bruce just having scheduled 'himbo' days as a weekend r&r. Is way better

[@jpjammin1876]

THANK YOU! As much as I love the DCAU, as much as we all do, this notion has never sat right with me.

[@johnjordan211]

I hate the dcau

[@jpjammin1876]

@@johnjordan211 Wow, really? That's interesting. May I ask why?

[@all9472]

7:51 look up how the lasso works its exploitable just self hypnosis or technicality

[@BazztheBazz]

People only latch onto the whole "Batman is the real guy, Bruce Wayne is the mask" thing because it sounds edgy and cool.

[@CalvinNoire]

Frank Miller's Dark Knight and it's consequences have been a disaster for the DC community.

[@ondururagittandeska2004]

The Misinterpretation of Frank Miller's Dark Knight and it's consequences*

[@billyboleson2830]

@@ondururagittandeska2004 no one seems to understand that dark knight returns was supposed to be satire

[@billyboleson2830]

Agreed

[@CalvinNoire]

​@@ondururagittandeska2004 Hence, why I put in "And it consequences"

[@ondururagittandeska2004]

@@billyboleson2830 Uhm Pretty sure it's meant to be about Bruce out of retirement don't know what the satire part is.

[@eraizon8067]

I guess because we mostly focus on Batman part of the character, we often disregard Bruce Wayne part

[@billyboleson2830]

The whole Bruce is the mask thing is just a surface level take on the character from people who only know Batman through KZbin shorts as opposed to actually reading any Batman comics. Batman ego goes in depth on this concept making it much more interesting then just “Bruce is the mask”

[@officialtoddhoward69]

Bruce isn't the mask, nor is Batman - both personalities co-exist as one man, and that man is Bruce Wayne. Bruce is nothing without Batman, Batman is nothing without Bruce Wayne. They are two sides of the same coin (and not Two-Face's doubleheaded one either)

[@nightmarearcade2663]

Brave and the bold has a line that I feel helps exemplify this point. In the episode chill of the night, Bruce has Joe chill dead to rights, he murdered his parents, he's finally ready to take vengeance. Phantom stranger and the Specter appear behind him, Phantom stranger trying to temper his anger and Specter wanting him to end Joe here and now as, Bruce revealed his identity to Chill and, Specter says if this man lives then Batman will die. But Bruce retorts with one of the best lines ever. "Batman may die, but Bruce wayne...never."

[@FutureofVengeance]

wow you have been having some bad takes and guess what .. I DISAGREE 0:31 FN

[@Intr0vertical]

I think they're both as real as each other. Arguably one side dominating the other ( personally, I still think it's Batman ). But the idea of a " true face " is dumb and corny to me. Not all aspects of Batman and playboy Bruce are an act. Both sides leak into each other at times

[@nerdsman567]

As I see it, there are, not two, but *THREE* sides to Bruce Wayne’s personality: The fake “playboy” persona he puts on for the public, the humble/introverted/compassionate side he keeps behind closed doors, and of course, the collected, calculated “Batman” side. One of the best examples I can think of that embodies the two former sides of Bruce Wayne, surprisingly, is in Tim Burton’s “Batman (1989)”, in the scene where Bruce and Vicky Vale are having dinner together at Wayne Manor. They start off eating in the “fancy” dining room with the long-ass dinner table (The two of them comedically sitting at the far opposite ends of the table), but Bruce feels uncomfortable eating at said table and the two move their dinner date to the back kitchen. Vicky then comments how the kitchen reflects Bruce’s personality more than the dining room. I’m not a hardcore expert on Batman comics by any means, but I think that scene, alone, sums up Bruce Wayne’s character and personality quite nicely and emphasizes how crucial his humble, compassionate side is to his persona as Batman.

[@mattlinkous4356]

Reminds of the debate about who’s real Clark or Superman. Again it’s a case of 3. There’s Superman, there’s the mild-mannered reporter then there’s just Clark the guy who grew up in Kansas discovering he had powers and then his unique heritage. The first two are extensions of this same guy, neither is “fake”.

[@Perdix64]

I do think that Batman in his younger years believes Bruce Wayne to be a mask, but when he gets older, the two somewhat merge with Bruce Wayne becoming slightly more prominent than Batman himself.

[@Gensolink]

I didnt know Bruce throwing it back at a party was a thing but I'm now blessed with this information

[@alitahir5904]

Bruce Wayne is the billionaire over the top philanthropist that can’t possibly be more than a playboy. Batman is the dark vigilante who will strike fear and terror into the hearts of criminals and wrongdoers Bruce is the compassionate man who will go beyond all lengths to help people who if you look close enough is always peaking through the cracks of both personas when his selflessness and compassion are on display.

[@noah5941]

For as much as I love the Christian bale batman movies, they've done some serious damage on batman as a character in the sense of making him seem so cold and heartless, that seemed to stick to this day

[@kennethsatria6607]

When was the second series after TAS, I feel like that was when Batman startee to become cold and distant to even his allies.

[@Cashmoneez]

Dude what? I’m sorry but Nolan’s Batman is far from the cold heartless Batman. Big supporting cast with fleshed out relationships. Batman in every one of those movie is burden Bruce Wayne does not want. The only one he’s really is dark and brooding the the 3rd one after all the shit that went down in the 2nd and the story plays it as a character fault the whole time and why bane beats his ass. Even then he’s literally the only popular Batman to straight up retire btw. This is a wack narrative to push I’m sorry but you missed the point of the Nolan movies

[@noah5941]

@@kennethsatria6607 I'm gonna have to disagree just in the sense that, Bruce Wayne in that show had multiple healthy relationships besides Alfred and he also was shown trying to make a difference with his philanthropy, I actually think the batman(2004) has a pretty accurate portrayal of batman/Bruce Wayne

[@user-Chelsea05]

I'd have to disagree, if anyone is to blame, it's Frank Miller's Dark Knight and the idiots trying to be the second coming of Miller

[@noah5941]

@@user-Chelsea05 upon further reflection im gonna have to agree with you and cashmoneyz

[@calebfasnacht8698]

Yeah, Bruce thinks of himself as "Batman," but that doesn't make "Bruce" his mask. The cowl, like the playboy, is a carefully manicured persona to achieve a specific result. It's as much of a tool as a batarang. It's the same way as the Superman persona is as much of a tool for Clark as the Clark Kent persona. The truth is always more nuanced in good storytelling

[@statelessfgc1069]

I had a conversation with my friend about this exact topic last night and now this vid pops up in my feed lol

[@Asmokedetector]

Batman is more who Bruce is, when he speaks to fellow heroes, that's him. The half of his life that he spends in the shadows is when he really comes out, the playboy during the day isn't him at all. Bruce Wayne the playboy is a mask, Batman is who he wants to be, but under the Batman mask, Bruce can be who he is.

[@erichughes2024]

Bruce Wayne is Batman, and Batman is Bruce Wayne. They are NOT 2 separate identities but two equal parts of the same whole. Bruce loves Gotham and its people and will always be there to protect it as the Caped Crusader. 10/10 top-tier video. Keep it up. 🦇👍🏾

[@hunterjump2234]

Thank you for covering this, I’ve always struggled with this aspect of Batman. I’ve heard of those comics but never read them myself.Do you think you could do a video on why wolverine wears a mask? I mean a lot of people know who he is and in a few occasions he’s shown wearing his costume with the cowl down.

[@RamChop451]

See I think when he started being batman, from year 1 to year 3, Batman was the mask, the distraction from his normal life. A way to sink away from that pain and focus on something bigger, and as he mellowed, got less angry and started to own himself, he shifted to Bruce being the mask as he needed to do more in his position of power as a regular man, despite just wanting to be Batman. And I think he struggles between these two identities alot, especially when alone. I don't think Bruce (Early on) knew who he was or who he wanted or needed to be in all circumstances and defaulted to Batman in a variety of unhealthy ways. That's why Dick Grayson and by extension the rest of the Bat Fam helped him grow into who he becomes. His sons and overall family and friends helped him stay grounded in both realities, they helped him see that Bruce and Batman are not only one and the same, that they can both do good, be valid, and be him all the time. He eventually becomes fully integrated between the two personas. Sometimes he may regress, but he's only human

[@CarlosMedina-mx1jl]

I always assumed that when they say Bruce Wayne was the mask, they were referring to the playboy aspect of the identity rather than the whole thing.

[@necrowulfx]

I would also add mainstream interpretations like Batman Begins adding to this popular perspective of there being only one true version to this character. Before seeing this thumbnail, even I would probably say Bruce is the mask, but looking back, my first introduction to the character was 2004s The Batman, and in that show, Bruce and Batman were one and the same. So I thank you for making this video, as I agree with your points, and how Bruce is as real of a personality as Batman, that they are two sides of the same coin. Those closest to him will see more of Bruce Wayne, and I feel the two sides blend together to make the character whole.

[@crimsonXsythe01]

I always thought when people say bruce is the mask they ment his playboy side and his more essentric lifestyle

[@Byrdstar6423-un3me]

Came as soon as it came out and wow did the Nolanverse poison this series and its public perception ( DCEU included )