The PROBLEM with Batgirl

[@mauken-dyn6685]

Alright we just expecting you to do every negative of a DC character at this point? Then moving over to Marvel? Well when that's all done make some positive videos about every character you have a problem with.

[@MEnterprises01]

Comments like this are so dumb because these "negative" videos clearly convey why these characters deserve more love and attention from DC. Y'all niggas act like I vehemently hate these characters when the videos so blatantly show why I like them.

[@BiqRedOne]

⁠@@MEnterprises01preach 🗣️🗣️

[@WonderWomanFan010]

I don't think you've watched any of his vids bb

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

​@@MEnterprises01PREACH PREACHER🗣️🗣️🔥🔥

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

It's clear to me you don't actually watch these videos bro.

[@user_miike]

cass cain is literally the daughter bruce never had. she’s one of few that truly understands his mission and can carry the mantle

[@huntertezz]

It hurts when writers forget that she is his daughter

[@lordarekusanda]

Cassy, Helena and Damian are his greatest childs

[@joshjones9749]

That's one thing the Cassandra Cain Batgirl run explored that had never been explored before. Batman got protective over Cass like she was his actual teenage daughter.

[@nightwing1491]

True but Cassandra Cain isn't really suited for that mantle.

[@luisalejandrolopezbuendia9686]

​@@nightwing1491 She actually is, even more so than Dick. If anything, she is a better heir of the Batman mantle than Dick ever was because even tho he came to understand and own the title of Batman after Final Crisis, Dick was always his own person. Cassandra on the other hand straight up obsessed over the Bat mantle the same way Damian did if not even more and constantly tried to become more and more fitting for the role because that was what she wanted

[@QNPMEDIA]

Steph gets a lot of hate but I genuinely like how much of a normal person she is. Everyone else in the bat family are experts or assasins, but Steph is the human element. She's messy, she's not the smartest, she's not spectacular at fighting or crime fighting. She's just a girl that wants to do good and we need that in Gotham.

[@deathmaniac7712]

I don't care if she's Batgirl or Orphan, I just wanna see more Cassandra Cain

[@joshjones9749]

Its better if she's Batgirl. Her connection to Batman is what brings the character full circle.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

And let her be as sweet as an apple pie, while also being so dangerous, that Bruce needs a permit to adopt her, because she legally classifies as a lethal weapon.

[@Sierlea]

Or Black Bat or a new title, but yea, Cass is fantastic. Heck, I like Babs more when she is near Cass.

[@silloweet]

She has too much plot armour. Pass

[@joshjones9749]

@@silloweet Yet nobody complains when Batman throws hands with Justice league members...

[@natto4now]

"no time for jokes Batgirl"

[@andrewwatson8615]

That 60s show was fantastic😂. If you haven't already you should look up some clips.

[@ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΑ-ε1ω]

You should watch the 60's series

[@damiantirado9616]

@@andrewwatson8615it’s sexist but unironically hilarious.

[@orbboom6119]

BASED BATMAN!?!😳🤯

[@leonarddement3432]

yeah. batgirl in the 60's. america didn't want women making a living wage. so that was the reason for that line

[@gamerath5331]

The worst part about batgirl are the people who ship her with Bruce

[@WeebGuru6]

Or anyone in the bat family i genuinely wouldn’t ship her with anyone in the batfamily

[@ZAYA.21]

Batgirl was first introduced as a love interest for Bruce to makes sense.

[@pyrothefriendlyarsonist9195]

​@angels8920 except that was first Batgirl not Babs

[@pyrothefriendlyarsonist9195]

​@WeebGuru6 so no Dick Grayson?

[@TheShockVox]

@@pyrothefriendlyarsonist9195eh it makes sense in the context of the DCAU. not saying it’s great, but it ain’t unrealistic. Hell, even Friends did that shit with Monica and Richard.

[@malikpierre-louis3343]

Oh boy do I HATE her romantic relationship with Batman that Bruce Tim kept pushing.

[@Fish-Noodles]

it's gross

[@TheShockVox]

It wasn’t just him. Other writers wrote those episodes. He did killing joke, I’ll blame him for that one. But DCAU Bruce and Babs having a tryst wasn’t unrealistic, and not even out of character for either of them. Dick and Babs weren’t nearly as close in that continuity as they are in comics. People who don’t like the age difference (I get it, and it is oogie) it’s not unrealistic, especially if you’re literally the most eligible bachelor in your city (plus Wonder Woman in this continuity, funny enough, is younger than Babs). I’m not saying I ship them. But the obsession with it in the two times it happened is getting more annoying than the ship itself. I don’t see ANYONE shipping them. But boy do I see people talk about it on every Babs video.

[@me-ou3hs]

@@TheShockVoxhow tf is it not out of character, it makes sense as to why Barbara may like Bruce, but Bruce reciprocating those feelings is extremely out of character and something he would never do, and the whole age thing with Diana is that she stopped aging at 18, she’s not 18, in every universe she’s hundreds of years old

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

Y'know, there _is_ a simple solution to all this terrible Batgirl/Batman shipping... ...JUST SHIP HIM WITH BATWOMAN. And I don't mean Miles Morales to his Peter Parker New 52 Lesbo Rep Batwoman, I mean untapped potential OG Batwoman!

[@malikpierre-louis3343]

@@TheShockVox You can push for something without creating it.

[@leonardostefanucci4106]

NGL, Barbara gets passed between the members of the Bat family like a universal blunt.

[@dws0828]

Even Jason tried to get in during Three Jokers 🤣 shit’s getting out of hand

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

M might've given the writers an idea with Damian and Barbara can't lie.

[@ShortPuff]

All that's missing is damian. Lmao

[@HeliatroCipher]

​@@ShortPuff Oh then it'll be leagues worse

[@KOFNY]

@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265Nahhhh that’s so cursed. They don’t even let Damian age most of the time that’d be so messed 😭

[@Mr.DelicateTouch]

It seems like DC is doing better with Cassandra in the comics currently. She’s a main character in Kelly Thompson’s Birds of Prey run right now and it was just announced that she’s finally getting her own solo book again in November of this year. Now all we need is for Steph to get some love too and it’d be perfect.

[@joshjones9749]

I didn't know Cass was finally getting another solo book. WELL overdue.

[@matthewschwartz6607]

Wow. Who will the creative team be?

[@Mr.DelicateTouch]

@@matthewschwartz6607 The writer is Tate Brombal and the artist is Takashi Miyazawa. I personally have never read anything from them but based off what’s been said about the run so far, they seem like very passionate fans of the character and are excited to work on the book, so that’s a good sign.

[@JJ_loves_JP]

Can anyone recommend a good comic to start with Cassandra Cain? I really like her design and outfits

[@pulped69dago91]

​@@JJ_loves_JPFrom the top of my head: Her first solo Batgirl (2000) is a must read Batman No Man's Land - her introduction Shadow of the Batgirl - which is a retelling of her origins Spirit World she's a co-lead Birds of Prey (2023) - she's part of the team There's way more than that and you can find a proper reading list by googling it especially for her appearances pre-new 52 and post-rebirth.

[@kevinbre7563]

I like her better as Oracle, too

[@myconiusmaximus1022]

Thank the creative team of Kim Yale and John Ostrander. They were the ones that salvaged Barbara Gordon as a character by making her become Oracle in Suicide Squad (volume 1) issue #23. DC had no plans for Babs until Yale and Ostrander elevated her character again.

[@matthewschwartz6607]

The Killing Joke was always meant to be an Elseworlds.

[@myconiusmaximus1022]

Unfortunately, DC editorial made different plans after the fact.

[@insertname9736]

​@@myconiusmaximus1022it's fortunately.

[@sobhan1218]

yeah she's hotter

[@pedanticat9479]

Fun fact, I never even heard of Cassandra Cain until Linkara retrospective on her. And the fact that she got a Batgirl ongoing comic first before Barbra is pretty insane to think about

[@UmImAva]

To be fair, Cass is badass as hell, and the trio of Steph, Barbara, and Cass is such a fun dynamic.

[@trexadvent4726]

How tough is Cassandra Cain compared to Damian Wayne Robin? Who would win between them?

[@dcenjoyer7536]

@@trexadvent4726 cassandra

[@lostgem8225]

​@@trexadvent4726think of cass as damian except older, and all the time that damian took learning language, manners and the needs to become the demons head was all spent on training instead

[@dws0828]

@@trexadvent4726whoever the writer wants

[@jadaok888]

It’s so odd seeing them push her dating EVERY MALE IN THE BATFAMILY when the rest of them see each other as literal family members

[@burningcrystalamber]

Can't agree more 😢😢😢

[@nikoletta3855]

When did she date Damian?

[@burningcrystalamber]

@@nikoletta3855 not yet :)

[@emptyteardrops]

@@nikoletta3855Barbara didn’t date Damien (thank god) But in one of the harley quinn the animated series tie-in comics Damien has a crush on Cassandra Cain which is weird because I’m pretty sure Cassandra is legally adopted by Bruce? (I could be wrong) Either way I think we can agree that it’s weird?

[@painvillegaming4119]

@@emptyteardropswait Cassandra is in the Harley Quinn animate series comic ? Also ew that his big sister

[@aidanhever3369]

Barbara Gordon becoming Oracle is like Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing. Like the latter, Stephanie and Cassandra are the spiritual successors to Babs. Unfortunately, DC Comics never gives them a chance as they are too busy with Damian. Which by the way, I don't hate him like the others.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

As a Damian Wayne enjoyer I agree.

[@baki484]

Barbara Gordon is perfect as oracle even after she overcomes her disability. She became more effective as the eyes and ears of the superhero community. Cassandra is perfectly suited for the field, she has a cooler suit and she's a better fighter than batman.

[@andreabanuelosavila2317]

Imagine a comic where Babs is Cassandra’s mentor on her way to become Batgirl.

[@jacobzd2309]

Ummm, that's literally a plot of 2001's Batgirl series

[@almessasorrow4950]

​@@andreabanuelosavila2317 so literally almost every Cassandra Cain Batgirl comic then?

[@milkiassamuel780]

Batgirl from The Batman (2004) animated series is my favourite depiction of the character as her chemistry and dynamic with Robin was very cute as the two bickered and had fun like siblings and her dynamic with Batman was also so entertaining with how sassy and quick witted she was. I really HATE how much Bruce Timm tried to push the relationship between Batman and Batgirl. It is such an uncomfortable and gross ship that should never be canon whatsoever. Btw I totally agree about Cassandra Cain being the best Batgirl if you ask me and I really hope she shows up int he DCU Batman: Brave and The Bold movie

[@mayotango1317]

She is more like Stephanie Brown in that show, like that Robin feel more Tim Drake.

[@CyclopsWasRight]

I like Stephanie Brown's Batgirl. I thought the writing was funny and entertaining.

[@Oddash-lz6kw]

I know I replied to someone else's comment but Steph's run as Batgirl came at a time when I was in a bitter place in my life. Just reading a story where the main character was optimistic even in a dark, gritty world felt like such a breath of fresh air. Like "finally, someone who's not miserable all the time". Steph has a special place in my heart

[@stevenbryant8160]

She definitely her own run

[@danielendless]

Blessed be the ground Cassandra Cain walks on

[@CursedShinobiClown]

Most sane Cass gooner

[@aerickmon3350]

Most truthful cass preacher

[@grindory]

Cass is definitely my favorite of all the Batgirls

[@ToasterLad_]

TRUTH NUKE

[@caiomegaverse5590]

I did some research on which female DC characters are the most loved by fans. Batgirl was the most voted, followed by Wonder Woman, Cassandra Cain, Zatanna, Power Girl, Black Canary, and Starfire. What impressed me was that these are not the characters that DC/Warner promotes the most. Characters like Supergirl and Harley Quinn weren't even in the Top 10, yet Harley Quinn gets much more content than Wonder Woman, they completely changed Cassandra Cain's character in the Birds of Prey movie, and Supergirl is going to get a new movie in 2026... but nothing for Power Girl or Zatanna.

[@space1734]

Power Girl is just there for her big boobs

[@PapaBear77]

Honestly I'd be more offended about Wonder Woman getting side lined for the Deadpool with a vagina. She's a member of the trinity, one of the most recognizable female super heroines, and yet they haven't given her a show since the mid to late 70's. At this point I'm convinced WB is just deliberately sabotaging themselves with their dumb ass decision making.

[@AdamYJ]

Harley Quinn sells a lot of merch.

[@caiomegaverse5590]

@@AdamYJ Makes sense. I really like her, actually. But there were so few people saying that they have her as their favorite character (in my research), that I THINK (but I can be wrong) that those who like to buy Harley Quinn products are not comic book readers, but rather people in general, the casual public who find her fun because of the movies and cartoons, but who have no interest in watching every episode of Batman The Animated Series, buying several comics and omnibouses, going to get autographs at comic conventions, etc.

[@dws0828]

Zatanna is such an easy character to throw into a DC movie with an attractive actress and cool outfit and have her become a big fan favorite

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

I wish Stephanie Brown got more love...❤

[@dws0828]

Besides Wally West, Stephanie and Tim have easily gotten screwed over the most by editorial since I started reading after Infinite Crisis

[@lianmizu2488]

Me too. She was also a Robin for a time, you'd think she would get more respect

[@dazzlethestar151]

I really hope we get a good Batgirl Cassandra Cain in James Gunn's DCU. Our girl deserves a proper theatrical movie appearance!

[@aerickmon3350]

And may we never speak of the “other one”

[@forgotrealname9124]

​@@aerickmon3350is the other one the paraplegic?

[@SecretMagician]

No, it's about the "Cassandra Cain" from the Harley Quinn/Birds of Prey movie from 2020, which was Cassandra in name only.​@forgotrealname9124

[@Achieme]

Problems most people have with the character of Batgirl 1. Barbara being paralyzed/being able to walk again 2. Dick being with Barbara or starfire 3. Mantle of Batgirl

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

Honestly, they should let Dick have that Tamaran @$$. I could go futher back and say that Dick's original love interest really was Batgirl (albeit not Barbra), but his Nightwing will always be with Starfire.

[@TheSsjJoker]

I personally think dickory should always be the right choice

[@TheSsjJoker]

@@ellugerdelacruz2555#Dickory

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

@@TheSsjJoker Amen bro...

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

​@@ellugerdelacruz2555FACTS

[@myconiusmaximus1022]

DC having Barbara Gordon become paralyzed in Killing Joke was their cruel way of getting rid of her as a character, without actually "killing" her off. If you like Barbara as Oracle, then thank Kim Yale and John Ostrander. It was Kim Yale and John Ostrander that salvaged Barbara Gordon as a character by making her become Oracle in Suicide Squad (volume 1) issue #23.

[@daraghokane4236]

No the comic was meant to be none canon, it was just a way to push Batman and Jim over the edge so they would be so angry at the joker they would shot him. That is why joker did it he was trying to say look Jim and Batman anybody can be pushed over the edge even you two. That is also why it ended on a clif hanger we don't know if batman snaped and killed joker in the end. Then DC made it canon,

[@myconiusmaximus1022]

@@daraghokane4236 Whatever DC's original intent was, they ultimately made the story cannon having no regard for it destroying Barbara Gordon. It still stands that Kim Yale and John Ostrander are fully to thank for Barbara Gordon becoming Oracle, because had they not, Babs would essentially have been "fridged".

[@Superlad9494]

​@@myconiusmaximus1022 and even when Simone did the Birds of Prey book, she never referred to Killing Joke as the why she was crippled. If anything it was more or less implied that Simone thought it was similar to how Young Justice season 4's flashback shows it, she had lost her legs saving Cassandra Cain and possibly Stephanie Brown, Bette Kane, Harper Rowe, Nell Little, Charlotte Gage Radcliffe (her version of Bat-Mite), Gus Vale, Gavin King and Helena Bertinelli at some point presumably during the original Crisis.

[@alimahmoud1937]

@@myconiusmaximus1022 yale and ostrander are actaully the ones that paralyzed Barbara, also she retired as batgirl before TKJ

[@myconiusmaximus1022]

@@alimahmoud1937 Source please.

[@Simp-mania]

"it is wrong, it's meant to be wrong" bruh just admitted to Writing shock value

[@Exziles]

Well goddamn, they just announced a new Cassandra Cain Batgirl series. Our girl is getting the love she deserves! Perfect timing on your part 🤣

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Animated or Live Action?

[@disgruntleddev]

@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265main line comic run

[@gra9]

@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 comic

[@Exziles]

@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 Neither! Its a new comic book series.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

@@Exziles Hmm bet. They really gotta adapt these characters more to animation or something. Free advertising for the comics.

[@amentsegayee7656]

The hate on Stephanie is crazy 😅

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

I wish Stephanie Brown got more love...

[@theBlindDeafMute]

Steph lead the best mainline bat family run period. I will not be taking questions.

[@PapaBear77]

@@theBlindDeafMute Eh, I enjoyed it for what it was. Not a Steph fan, but considering the run's competition it was good.

[@joerogers9413]

Yeah, Stephanie's Batgirl series was pretty solid, unfortunately it got cut short when DC rebooted again.

[@burningcrystalamber]

yes,i love bab&cass&tim,but it's surprising and unacceptable for me to find out some bat fans hate Steph.THAT WAS STRANGE.She is absolutely one of the best female superheros,i love her and enjoy her appearance in comics😭😭😭

[@illustratedbymikayla]

Your video just made my day! Batgirl is one of my favorite DC characters ever since Batman TAS. No one ever mentions Stephanie Brown or Cassandra Cain and I'm so obsessed with their comics. Barbara, Cassandra and Stephanie are all so compelling as Batigirl and I love how unique their backstories are.

[@MominEnjoyer]

1:06 Robin in the background: "I'm sorry, she's getting paid?!"

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Lmfao

[@ashleysmith5427]

Bruce Tim doesn’t need to be within 50 feet of a Batgirl story! 😂

[@GenerationWest]

The reason why that Batgirl suit in the Birds of Prey show looked so good because it was actually a comic accurate recolor of the Batman & Robin Batgirl suit (to save money of course). Since that Batgirl didn't have a permanent cowl, they had to make one from scratch (the helmet from the movie wouldn't have worked for the actress, Yancy Butler).

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Huh that's actually cool fun fact

[@Superlad9494]

Also Alicia's suit really wasn't that bad either for the movie...but they should have just called her Bette Kane...then maybe things wouldn't have been so bad (outside of Bruce Wayne being presented as the only identity instead of the duality of the Bat)...because that looked like an upgraded Bat-suit for Bette.

[@AGD_AwkwardGameDev]

It is impossible how each video of yours, take after take, makes me go "hell yeah!" Not only do you have a deep understanding of the various characters from the comics, but you also have a clear passion for what they stand for, and the spotlight they should be given I am eating real good

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Ong same bro

[@TheSsjJoker]

Cassandra is not just one of my favvorite of the Batfamily but also characters in general, next to Dick, she needs more love man not a lot of people know of her unless u are a hardcore Batman fan or dc in general Edit: birds of prey movie did my girl dirty Also would love a video about scarecrow (Batman best villain)

[@burningcrystalamber]

The role in birds of prey movie isn't our cass,also other girls.Writers just made shit and think they have done well,but we all know that's not true😓😓😓

[@georgejoestarii9469]

Joker, that thing is a cow dung. I hate *REPRESENTATION.*

[@saaraao4]

the day babs is free of being forced into a love interest role is the day i can finally rest 🙏🏻

[@ProfessorHurt]

"Who's next-- LUKE FOX?!" *Batgirl of Burnside blinks and slowly slinks into the background trying to hide*

[@abiodunsulaiman2297]

Shit, her getting with Jean Paul valley may be more likely than I thought

[@painvillegaming4119]

@@abiodunsulaiman2297please no

[@painvillegaming4119]

@@abiodunsulaiman2297actually apparently Barbara used to have a crush on him back in the 90s

[@YTHandlesBlow]

I love Cassandra's character is the Webtoon "The Wayne Family Adventures" for most of the time shes neutral and just fun. The Webtoon is fun cause its just the slice of life stuff aka daily nonsense of the Bat-Family.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

It's honestly better than any Batman story in recent years. Then again, I am mostly reading Batdad and Catmom fanfics nowadays, so.

[@aerickmon3350]

It really is one of the best bat pieces dc has made in years Thank god it was successful and is one of their most read works ever at i think it was 90 million reads cause we need more of that

[@Radiolonestar]

It's such a breath of fresh air getting to the Batfam interact each other in some slice of life fun and not seeing them trying to hurt or kill each other or something

[@Voltbolto]

She is complete garbage in that bro 😂 they make her personality like white bread

[@stevenbryant8160]

They need to make that into a show

[@Claude203]

Cassandra Cain is the best Batgirl in my opinion, I prefer Babs as Oracle and Steph is just meh.

[@Mr.DelicateTouch]

The Steph slander is crazy work

[@kylegivens3120]

I agree that Cassandra is the best Batgirl.

[@i.d.9754]

Honestly, I love them all equally...but I love Cassandra more

[@AltAccount-ec2ck]

​@@i.d.9754I prefer Cassandra too. Way more interesting.

[@leonardostefanucci4106]

​@@Mr.DelicateTouchONG. Why is she catching the backlash?

[@nachgeben]

I think the best storyline in Stephanie's initial introduction was the fact that she was dealing with a pregnancy at like 15-16 years old, and Tim was so committed to trying to help her through it. I also wish you would've mentioned that Cass's outfit came from when Huntress created it, because Batman was AWOL during NML, and everyone was starting to run amok. Huntress had issues, and Batman--when he finally returned--forcefully took the outfit from her because her cruel and murderous tactics weren't consistent with his collective.

[@user_miike]

after young justice i wish cass cain and stephanie got more love

[@mercurian_witch]

My first time seeing Batgirl basically ever was in "The Batman" TV show, and man I LOVED the dynamic between Bruce & Barbra before she "Officially" came under Bruce's wing, and the moment at the end of season three where she finally earns a grappling gun was super cool. Didn't like how they sidelined her heavy in the seasons following due to Dick's introduction, especially since Barbra & Dick both had really good chemistry acting like an older sister and younger brother to each other. Great vid as always btw! :D

[@daraghokane4236]

I liked how the show admitted to that, of her getting upset that he was closer to dick then her after one week. It makes sense in character That Bruce would be more connected to dick. As dick had a family that was killled by a criminal so batman is like he is just like a younger me, Barbra didn't have that conection with him,. They should have focused on that character flaw more

[@Rebelheart1985]

I seriously could NOT imagine why people confuse Barbara and Kate Kane like that. I also feel like Bruce Timm’s obsession with Batgirl x Batman didn’t help. And DC switching her between being Batgirl and Oracle over and over again. And her ships usually being shit or just okay. And oh god, PLEASE don’t give DC the idea to have Barbara and Damian be a thing. That’s actually nightmare fuel. And bruh they be doing Cassandra and Stephanie so damn dirty.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

I heard Kath Kane and I'm going who?? But then I remember oh yeah she's batwoman.

[@realtwovo]

Inst Barbara Orcale AND Batgirl rn, DC make your mind

[@ratatouilledrinksclorax9897]

​@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265bruce's cousin. All be honest before reading through No Mans Land i had always confused Cain and Kane because i had only known about Kane from Badblood

[@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831]

Good to find another fan of Cassadra! (I also love Steph's run as Batgirl too, though).

[@monobro141]

Batgirl is one of those characters who usually gets the short end of the stick usually being a secondary or not even a factor

[@WinchesterxNL]

The problem with Batgirl? They ALWAYS go back to Babs. Let Steph and Cass reign alongside, for once.

[@Superlad9494]

I would like to see all four Batgirls on screen together, Bette, Babs, Cass and Steph and show them kicking rear and taking names.

[@GeardoGaming]

Multiple characters with the same name at the same time has become more a problem in recent years

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Yeah it's crazy.

[@neverbeganforme]

Exactly thisssss. They’re all lame too but people will lie to themselves and say that they’re good because they’re wmen.

[@GeardoGaming]

Just to be clear my comment also includes men sharing the same name, not just women

[@neverbeganforme]

@@GeardoGaming I agree, but wmen are usually the worst offenders of this nonsense.

[@totalfree8740]

Stephanie Brown and her friendship with Cass is my top favorite

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

I think Stephanie Brown’s Batgirl should be used more often. While I do like Barbara Gordon’s Batgirl and I’ll admit, Cassandra Karin’s Batgirl suit was badass… Stephanie Brown is an interesting character, as she started out as a vigilante named the Spoiler, before becoming a Robin for a brief time before becoming the last Batgirl of the Post Crisis Continuity. Really weird how out of all the Battle for the Cowl & Inc Era Batfamily members who gets used in other media, it’s Damian Wayne and Batwoman who get used but not Stephanie Brown or Cassandra Kain.

[@BarneyisJehova]

The problem of having Cassandra as Batgirl and Barbara as oracle is that it insinuates that the Killing Joke is canon, and I will ALWAYS refuse to accept that.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

I completely agree

[@tjjordan4207]

Cassandra Cain is the best Batgirl. In fact, she's kinda the perfect replacement for being the protector of Gotham once Bruce either retires or dies, and she is the daughter that Bruce never truly had. Out of everyone, Cassandra understands Bruce the most and shares in his desire to continue the fight, despite the problems they may have. I really wish they would adapt the No Man's Land storyline in animation so that we could see her introduction.

[@jennyleeder8586]

In the Batgirls series they called each other Oracle, Orphan, and Spoiler over coms. I liked that series... thought it was well done and gave a lot of heart to the characters

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

3:15 Also they had Wallace West\Kid Flash show up only for him to be killed so quickly, like why acknowledge him if you're just gonna kill him. Heck they brought back several Teen Titans from that opening of Teen Titans: The Judas Contract, only to kill them off.

[@starfalchion4404]

THANK YOU for mentioning the Barbara adaptation in the 2004 The Batman show And *THANK YOU* for talking about the lack of proper representation Cassandra Cain gets

[@RealLovelighter]

The Bruce/Batgirl ship became so synonymous with Bruce Timm that bro literally had to say “we’re not going to have any Bruce/Barbara relationships in Caped Crusader”

[@batuhanbolat5656]

I swear, if we ever get a Barbara x Damian moment, even if it is an alternate universe or one of those "it is Damian from the future, so he is her age now actually" I will burn DC down.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Stop giving writers ideas bro

[@lauroalexandre279]

I was having a discussion the other on who should be the villain in Brave and the Bold, and I suggested it could be David Cain and Cassandra to mirror the Batman-Robin dynamic, and at the end her betraying her father and being accepted into the batfamily

[@jasonramsey1493]

Cassandra Cain being a better batgirl than Barbra. Preachhh

[@dredgen0268]

Cassandra Cain’s outfit as Batgirl looks SO SICK

[@shibernyan2009]

Yo I nearly died at "No time for jokes, Batgirl".🤣🤣🤣

[@speccowo]

Barbara has sm cool traits to her that seperate her from the other bat family members fr. But all DC see her as is "the girl character" and thus just throw her into constant dating potential plots. Im glad shes valued as oracle tho

[@m.u.sik4eva]

5:43 that makes sense. Oracle was tight, Batgril/Barb is kinda mid

[@doctordoom85]

2009 Batgirl (Stephanie Brown) run was personally one of my favorites of that decade. So fun and upbeat. Funny enough, it was running the same time as Power Girl by Jimmy Palmiotti, Amanda Conner, and Justin Grey which had a similar fun vibe. I have read the first few issues of Batgirls from a few years ago, fairly good, I need to get farther in but it was nice seeing Steph and Cass working together.

[@HighHeelKnight]

Not only did I watch the short-lived BIRDS OF PREY television series, but I also won the official contest that was hosted by the program. 🏆🥳 During the first four weeks of the season, a trivia question was asked. Viewers summited their answers on the internet. I won the contest. The prize was a trip to for two to California to visit the show's filming sets. Because the show as cancelled, the prize was changed into a trip to Universal Studios and to be part of the studio audience for a taping of the sitcom, GROUNDED FOR LIFE. The crazy thing is, I almost missed out on the experience. I was notified by mail. I nearly ripped up and threw away the envelope because I thought it was junk mail. Thank goodness, my curiosity prevailed.😆

[@ryuuseiferretSP]

17:17 I think that might be a nod to one of the Batman the animated series specials where Batwoman were three different people working together.

[@johnathanburton6043]

One thing I realized during this video is that the two subsequent batgirls following barabara (not counting Huntress, who did briefly take up the mantle) mirror the two sides of Barabara Gordon that fans and in cannon characters characterize her as. We have the thrill seeker crime fighter early career side of Batgirl being represented by Stephanie Brown, while I her more traumatic transformation to Oracle is mirrored by how Cassandra became batgirl

[@nightwing1491]

I personally don't consider Stephanie Brown to be Robin because, that honestly didn't do anything for the character.

[@Superlad9494]

I also think that there was a bit of a thing with Steph being fired as Robin though...are you really a Robin or as Red Canary recently put it, a superhero in general "if you don't ignore Batman at least once?" I mean...seriously like Superman once said "you aren't always right, Bruce." That said...as Robin, Steph's really just Tim in a skirt, same as when Bette was first introduced she was just Nightwing in a skirt, but to a lesser degree...and then Jason was just Diet Nightwing at first.

[@TevyaSmolka]

Personally for me my favorite are Casandra Cain batgirl and Stephanie brown batgirl and I like Barbra Gordon as oracle but that’s just my opinion.

[@baki484]

Cassandra Cain is the perfect batgirl her past/upbringing and her being a better fighter than Bruce and the rest of the Batfamily. Barbara is perfect as Oracle and playing to her strength as the eyes and ears of the superhero community.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@baki484 i can agree with that

[@CyclopsWasRight]

Stephanie Brown was my favorite. I didn't read much of Cassandra's books. I'm not a huge Bat fan and only read what I did because a friend hounded me to read some.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@CyclopsWasRight i can understand that

[@officialasim6772]

2:17 WHERE DID YOU GET THIS CLIP FROM BRO I WAS ROLLLLLING omo dis guy sabi pass

[@oneillcornish7915]

Honestly a Casandra Cain and Red Hood anime would rock

[@joshjones9749]

That's an interesting pairing to work together. I would read the hell out of a Cass/Red hood comic

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Put her with Damian. Seriously, these two can have such an interesting dynamic.

[@aerickmon3350]

@@valentinkambushev4968 no not really And honestly there’s way more of a chance of people making it wind up being a cringe fest than anything

[@alimahmoud1937]

a character that hates killing and anyone that does it, and a character that kills. what story would be there?

[@oneillcornish7915]

@@alimahmoud1937 contrast of morals

[@justinc5988]

So funniest shit they just annouced cassandra cain is getting a solo series apart of dcs all out event

[@randomuser4486]

I also wanna see more Cassandra. But the loyalty this guy has to Cassandra, I have to Tim Drake. Just give my bro the credit he deserves! (Btw, what do the Batgirls even do, when they're not on patrol? We always get the Robins. Like Dick is a cop, Tim is a programmer, etc. But never what the others do, except for Barbara.)

[@FunkayJunk]

For Cass' original batgirl run, the whole "what do they do when they're not on patrol" is a big part of her story. Cass was surviving homeless since 8 year old raised to be a weapon for the LoA, and Barbara took her in as a mother figure, teaching & encouraging her to live more normal life and the importance of having a secret identity outside crime fighting, but she's a lot like Bruce & was 100% down to be batgirl 24/7/365 with no vacation, so it explores a lot of that. Man her run was so good 😭 Tim Drake was her robin so he would appear a lot through her books too, I hope her new Solo does her justice

[@magmellandothermysteries8024]

I think Babs being disabled is a fascinating and worthy story to tell! The problem is that that’s not why she was paralyzed in Killing Joke! She just gets fridged without actually dying! OSP has a great video explaining this problem

[@greyworld6242]

A Cassandra solo movie would be awesome! 12:39 what the fuck!?

[@ghartman56]

Bro I don't think I've ever agreed with every single word in a video until today. From it being dumb to call the birds of prey girl cass and seeing the real cass as your favorite batgirl, to babs working better as and bringing out her more unique strengths as oracle, to steph seeming not that relevant or defined earlier on but having a fire batgirl run that solidified her personality in an compelling way. Banger video.

[@CdDaGod]

Imagine if Cassandra Cain’s Batgirl was adapted to Matt Reeves Batverse…

[@spinjitzumasterfalcon]

Ok, why does Tim look like Slim Shady? 😂

[@CursedShinobiClown]

Everyone in that era had to have a shaved head cause it was cool

[@cobinizer]

Bruce Timm jumped the shark with the Batman and Batgirl ship. If only Paul Dini could have smacked him across the face and told him "No!"

[@EdmundKempersDartboard]

"This is no time for jokes, batgirl." Adam West's Batman was savage. 😂

[@trehubb6144]

Personally I wouldn't mind two Bat girls if we're talking for the DCU. Barbara version should be a flashback or a temporary turn back into Batgirl (which has happened multiple times in comics). Barbara is too much of a fan favorite for us to never see her as Batgirl. She was very capable in that role. I will agree Oracle needs to be the role she stays in the longest. Definitely showcases her intelligence more. As we know all robins/Batgirl have aspects of Batman. Barbara exemplifies his intelligence. Cassandra Cain needs to be in love action (rightfully so) . My #1 character I've been wanting in live action since the Arrowverse began was Lady Shiva AKA The deadliest hands on earth😅💯. I need to see Shiva in the DCU. But I also like Cassandra Cain backstory and her fitting in with the Bat family. Orphan would be a great 2nd/primary Batgirl in the DCU

[@shabillalma4907]

I agree with a flashback for Barbara, it would be awesome

[@ProfessorHurt]

Also technically Cass and Babs showed up in Batman: the Doom that Came to Gotham. Babs' role is still the same as the "Oracle" while Cass is Kai Li Cain (basically being three characters. Mainly Cass in her look, compassion, and being Bruce's shadow in the movie. Then Carrie Kelly: her spirit/sharp wit. Finally Tim Drake (just the bits he was originally within the story). Cass is also the Batgirl in the Bat Wheels kids cartoon. Though she wears a Babs-styled costume, there have been hints throughout the series of Babs, and Dick just showed up in it. Literally, the sibling dynamic between the two was so damn good!

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Is bat wheels actually good?

[@Alderan3344]

Batgirl is one of the best. She and nightwing are the power couple of DC right now in the nightwing comics. she deserves some epic movie moments in the new gunnverse.

[@lola3226]

they just announced a new Cassandra Cain solo run so i think there is hope for her to be more main stream

[@natto4now]

Something I like from Cassandra Kane was her friendship with clayface in new 52 Honestly the idea of clayface trying to be a hero and becoming friends with Kane and working with the bat family was a good one imo

[@NightRunner2099]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was from the Rebirth run of detective comics. In fact, Cass didn't exist in the new 52 timeline up until around 2015 if I remember correctly. And it was quite different from her pre new 52 one.

[@pyrothefriendlyarsonist9195]

​@NightRunner2099 she was around pre 52

[@natto4now]

@@NightRunner2099 yeah I think it was rebirth Honestly it gets confusing cuz I wasn't to knowledgeable on comics so I would read both 52 and rebirth at the same time

[@NightRunner2099]

@@pyrothefriendlyarsonist9195 I meant after the new 52 reboot. Much like how Tim wasn't Robin in new 52 and had always been Red Robin, Cass didn't exist in the new 52 timeline until a few years into the reboot. The same goes for Steph and Azrael, despite both Bane and Clue Master existing and supposedly having gone through their original stories.

[@NightRunner2099]

@@natto4now no problem

[@gangofheroes]

The biggest issue with the Birds of Prey TV series is that it's a product of an era where they didn't fully commit to it being superheroes show like it's very much in that same realm of Smallville but worst quality.

[@NoGunPowder.]

"Not time for jokes Batgirl" 💀

[@joeker5208]

Me having the insane Batman-Encyclopedia that I do, will never forget the original ages of the sidekicks in their pre & post-crisis continuities. Cause Barbara is usually around in her early-mid 20s when she becomes Batgirl. Jason is TWELVE in post-crisis. And Tim’s THIRTEEN. So yeah. Can’t exactly say I was shipping Barbara with people she had about 10 years on and met as children. I much prefer her sibling dynamic with those two, instead of just pairing for the sake of pairing

[@KonEl17]

I kinda love watching Nightwing and Barbara Gordon working together in the field.

[@MistarZtv]

Casandra as the main batgirl is the way for me, cause that suit is my favorite out of any of the female batfamily suits.

[@nilge90]

New 52 really screwed over Cass and Steph. Bruce can have 4 Robins but only 1 Batgirl?

[@trashy_luka_]

it's just been announce that we're getting a new Cass solo!! Which means we're gonna have 2 comic runs were Cass is shown case (Birds of prey and her solo series),, personally I feel like lately there's been more push to include the batgirls (babs, cass and steph) which I am so happy about, it felt like there was nothing for Cass and Steph especially for awhile. I hope they start using Stephanie as Spoiler more often she's really underuse I wouldn't mind seeing her be in detective comics

[@joaogabriel-uf8cm]

CASSANDRA CAIN GANGG FR

[@alvincarter7203]

Bro you're basically taking the words out of my mouth I've thought this about batgirl for years

[@horushyperion76]

11:25 Bro if you read Batman Eternal that shit right was highly disrespectful

[@reecewheeler2041]

I really like her as Batgirl and as a character in general. Because Nightwing is my favourite character so of course I like her. She brings so much to Grayson but she's a great character in her own right. By the way I completely agree with your Oracle take because as someone who's disabled. It's actually great to see a character that got back up despite her condition because of her resilience. I prefer her as Oracle to be honest. There have been many times when she singlehandedly saved the day because her being Oracle. Barbara definitely deserves her flowers

[@Silver_Spectre]

The only acceptable version of Bruce and Babs is The Lego Batman movie

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Indeed at least they are around the same age and Bruce didn't have a whole ass history with her as a kid.

[@ZAYA.21]

@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265Bruce never knew babara as a kid in the comics

[@War-Hawk2003]

10:44 That sucks. I was hoping he would bring Barbara Gordon in as Batgirl, but hopefully this goes well.

[@the_revanchistlegion]

Batgirl is one of my Top 3 favorites in DC, so I really hope she gets some love in Gunn’s DCU; it’s about time we end the confusion between Kate Kane & Babs amongst casuals.

[@jadaok888]

The Bruce and Barbara thing is also odd because that’s him dating someone like half his age (even if she is an adult) who also used to date his adopted son

[@MrSupertallblackman]

Once again Bette Kane disrespected without even a mention.

[@jadaok888]

It’s crazy watching them fridge Barbara, make a great disabled hero, and then retcon that just so she has to be batgirl and date Nightwing again

[@insupportofjunhado]

Before watching the video: The problem with Batgirl is that they skip Bette Kane. Don't even acknowledge Bette Kane. While watching video: A mute assassin that gets cold feet. How very Daredevil. After watching video: The Barbara Gordon of Cartoon Network's DC Super Hero Girls basically was Cassandra Brown, minus the super villain father. Dad was still Jim Gordon. And instead of Tim Drake she was close to Barry Allen...since it basically made all the Silver Age heroes who weren't Superman, Batman or Aquaman into teenagers.

[@fortcastellan1730]

I liked the idea of Barbra becoming Oracle. No shade on her as Batgirl, but it was neat to see actual and (seemingly) permanent character progression. But then Nu52 reverted her back into Batgirl, and.....well, that kinda makes it hard to care about any character progression, since its almost certainly temporary, and turns the later Batgirls into perpetual after-thoughts.

[@glasses685]

I think the main reason they cancelled the Batgirl movie was for the tax write-off. Shame though. No idea if it was good but I'd have been interested.

[@doctordoom85]

Definitely for tax purposes, they’re pulling the same stunt with the Wild E Coyote film they made, and the latter got well received by test audiences, so we know quality isn’t the issue there, feels like they need to have a legal investigation, cinema of any kind should not be destroyed forever just so some CEO can buy another yacht. Like, I feel Batgirl movie likely would have been meh, but it’s still disrespectful to the medium of film and the work of the cast and crew for it to be erased like that.