Can THE CITIZEN compete with Grand Seiko?

[@robertomalley3469]

Hey Bruce, great review! Thanks so much for doing it! I have been a huge Citizen fan for many, many years. Your very thorough, fair, and objective review of the watch is extremely interesting. I really enjoyed the closer look at the watch under the macro lens. Being a Grand Seiko collector as well, I can certainly see the differences. It will be interesting to see how the "The Citizen" line evolves as they begin to expand into the US market, which they are currently doing. Thanks again, my friend!

[@BruceWilliams]

All thanks to you!

[@billyblanks6394]

Thank you for finally covering this gorgeous timepiece. Not too many people on KZbin are covering it.

[@911rsr]

This is symbol of true watch nerd and a rich one at that. A man with such a watch would surely own more than enough iconic timpieces.

[@BruceWilliams]

Knowing my buddy they way I do... yes he is a true watch lover with an awesome watch collection

[@jonirwin7316]

7k is not rich man territory

[@911rsr]

@@jonirwin7316 did u even bother reading my comment?

[@Stona999]

Very nice. The better these get, the more pressure it puts on GS to up their game as well. This kind of competition benefits the enthusiast when it causes the manufacturers to continually improve.

[@BruceWilliams]

Great point

[@higgledypiggledycubledy8899]

Price aside, this is a frigging stunning watch. I said "wow" out loud a couple of times watching the video. Really gorgeous.

[@bettersteps]

The dial is really sharp. The design of that case is fantastic! I like seeing Citizen competing with GS.

[@bassebajs]

I prefer the Chronomaster quartz versions myself! But this one is cool too

[@vincentschneuwly9783]

First time I am seeing a review about this one, dont know about Grand Seiko but it appeals to me more than a Zenith Defy for sure

[@yesun6702]

I doubt the finishing on these could beat zenith, and you can get a second hand defy for a hefty discount

[@vincentschneuwly9783]

@@yesun6702 to me it can compete against the Zenith on the case and bracelet quality/finishing, as Bruce says probably not on the dial/hands 😅, and it seems to me it can compete in term of movement finishing against the Elite movement from Zenith but I am no expert. Speaking about money it's obvious the Zenith is easy to find with a discount when the Citizen is a unicorn 😅, in the end I am attracted to that Citizen when I used to own the Zenith and was kind of disapointed

[@Stevencroasdale]

Wow that’s a seriously beautiful watch

[@georgedavall9449]

Citizen Rules !!!!!!!!!!! Used to be a Seiko Fan boi, but have slowly moved away from them. Nice watch here, and review!

[@managua-san8075]

I think their Eco-drive chronomaster are best bang gor buck. It might be a quartz but they are highly finished and have very accuracy than most Grand Seikos at +5 to -5 per year. Also they have a perpetual calendar so they adjust to leap years. No need to fix date at end of the month. It's a set it and forget it one and done watch.

[@dahak972]

I’m after the AQ eco drive version that’s within 5 seconds a year. That 5 seconds is incredible. I do have a series 8 GMT Pepsi version and its quality is unmatched. It’s worth every penny. Great review, thanks!

[@kashbadash5167]

Interesting review. I have a couple of Citizen Campanolas (mechanical and quartz) and a recently acquired hi-beat GS. I think the dials of the Campanolas compare favourably to GS and arguably even a bit better, although the GS applied markers are something else. The big standout on the Campanola mechanical is the superb AR coating which is class leading and that includes the big Swiss brands. I also think the bracelet on the Campanola is better than GS, but the one on my GS is perfectly fine imo (find it very comfortable) and has micro-adjustment which is nice.

[@MrZanzibar123]

Very interesting review, Bruce, thanks!

[@TonyYoung-d2v]

WORTH.......EVERY........PENNY!!! Bravo, Citizen!! Absolutely gorgeous, unique watch amongst all the other look-alikes. And the market seems to agree - selling at above retail. Keep it up Citizen - only the novice can't get past the name, and that's ok! :)

[@billyblanks6394]

I cldnt agree with you more, my friend. I cldnt say it better. I'm definitely picking one up.

[@watchdogpodcast239]

I have a The Citizen HAQ AQ4100-65W and it's stunning. I'm actually not a big GS fan these days, so I prefer these, but that's all subjective. This watch is so good. Would love to own one some day

[@justinlangley9522]

I have that exact same watch and can also agree and how brilliant it is . Under the macro is as good if not better than my GS quartz . And the titanium looks like stainless steel. I've had it for 3 months heavy use as a mechanic and its barely anymore scratched than any of my other watches that gets less wrist time . Also has only gained 1 second it that time

[@clintonshiells3095]

Very nice looking watch. I was hoping to see a review of The Citizen high accuracy quartz watch, which to me is way more interesting than one more LJP automatic watch.

[@donjuan150]

Was thinking the exact same!

[@nikkolomakaveli8295]

That natural lighting as always is top notch. Great cinematography Bruce.

[@mikes.4136]

I wasn’t aware that Citizen made movements, outside of Miyota - especially a La Joux-Perret. It’s a beautiful piece, and I love the way the details of the dial and bracelet are integrated. I’m still in the Grand Seiko camp, but Citizen isn’t too far behind. Maybe we’ll see a Grand Citizen, sometime in the near future!

[@chia-mingyang5804]

The Citizen is Citizen's answer to GS. There's no reason to make Grand Citizen.

[@Meowmeowsweet2]

love the latest gold bazel gold rotor one, super beautiful

[@AJB1702]

It's definitely a beauty... if one could get over the mental block of spending that kind of money on a Citizen - said as someone who owns and enjoys Citizen watches.

[@RadixRill]

The quality of citizen absolutely competes. However, they don't have enough options to compete with GS. They need some more creative dials and colors like the GS Shunbun etc

[@siddhant46s54]

the "The Citizen " eco drive quartz +/- 5 secs per year watches are easily better than grand seiko . it usually comes in titanium with zaratsu polishing + their proprietary duratec coating to eliminate all minor scratches , same price as the GS quartz and offers better value for money tbh

[@URestURust]

Great review and above all attention to detail. Much appreciated.

[@Wootsk]

The first Citizen 0100 have not miss more than a minute since they start running. Any mechanical automatic watch can do that?

[@saodavi6267]

Those uni-directionally winding rotors seem entry-level to me. Not sure if that's a valid take, but I've always associated bi-directional winding with higher quality movements.

[@arspistorica562]

Patek Philippe, JLC and Oris use unidirectional winding.

[@theoverlord1925]

Grand Seiko understood that it needed a more distinct separation between the two brands also getting rid of the old Seiko logo that used to be present. I’m feel Citizen needs to do the same and have a more distinct difference in logo and brand ; as for many this will still look and be a regular Citizen that could be bought for $150.

[@fightROSHANfight]

What a nice looking watch. IDK if its better than GS, but it looks probably better than the newer dial variants of Nivada Grenchen's F77.

[@ottowilliamhalim4116]

that is one serious THE CITIZEN out there

[@matthewtunnicliffe201]

I think these look great to be honest. Good value too.

[@bambammartin1556]

I have a citizen chronomaster with the washi paper dial and a gs snowflake. The finishing on the citizen is about 95% as good as the gs

[@CoolWatchesOnly]

that's beautiful

[@HaiCitizen89]

I Love Citizen❤❤

[@Apex_Apeq]

What reference of this citizen?

[@seanhickling7340]

I think they are far superior to GS. The bracelet is a particular improvement over GS offerings.

[@koraypektas6952]

It's really nice, it looks great on the bike, I love the watch.❤ Citizen Moving in the right steps.

[@Alan1234x]

Reminds me more of a Zenith Defy than Grand Seiko. As for GS, I’ve heard too many complaints of their service and their case design is boring.

[@expertreviews1112]

The ceramic bezel design is interesting… I’d like others to use this design! Nice watch but no GS match

[@sinesaii]

I am always shocked at the idea of “stealth wealth.” Every item I see under this category screams luxury. If anything, I think these items simply display “wealth.” Or perhaps “wealth with taste.” No one who knows anything about jewelry would imagine this to be anything but expensive. I used to wear Grand Seiko as a young man because it was awesome. No one knew the brand, but they knew Seiko, and the watches always drew compliments. I sold them all a few years back when the brand went full Hublot. I think this Citizen is everything Grand Seiko used to be. I almost bought the white paper dial, then did not because I became aware of the mechanical. Now, I think I just want quartz. The paper dials are amazing though.

[@paulbonaventura4969]

Citizen > Seiko ... change my mind Also this seems to be the first citizen I have seen that has appreciated. ALl the other mass "mall" ones drop like rocks. Still amazing watches.

[@kkyukihiro1]

The original strap of this watch is leather. Did you replace it with a metal strap by yourself?

[@drchung474]

Beautiful watch all around! Very nice quality. Although the 9SA5 beats that movement any day lol. GS dial work is also superior still I would say

[@chia-mingyang5804]

9SA5 wouldn't run as good as this one unfortunately.

[@drchung474]

@@chia-mingyang5804 Are you speaking in terms of accuracy? It may have a slightly wider deviation but 9SA5 is still within COSC parameters I believe. I was speaking about the finishing on the 9SA5

[@chia-mingyang5804]

@@drchung474 Most 9SA5 owners report way worse(10-20sec/day) real life deviations.

[@mukakta]

Nice watch, but marred by that horrible eagle logo. They're even putting them on the newer Chronomasters, which is a real shame.

[@SourceEngineEnjoyer]

Can Citizen compete with Grand Seiko? No. No they cannot.

[@justinlangley9522]

They can and they do . I have a aq4100-65w as well as a sbgp007 and under the macro the citizen is BETTER. Both accurate to 5 seconds a year the citizen is titanium and I can say EVERY person that has looked at my Citizen, believe it to be a stainless steel watch until actually handling it and then are shocked at how light it is .

[@JohnBowl14690]

@@justinlangley9522 - The Apple watch can compete with the every watch

[@Walter-1982-]

but what reference is it?

[@bindoctrinated3147]

How did I not know about The Citizen.

[@evh4611]

But no micro adjustment

[@hamtairo]

Too bad the no date version was only limited to higher tier with leather strap. And regular version will come with date complications

[@Harpreet06]

Urrgh that black bezel

[@albertmeyer8983]

The clasp no on the fly adjustment…. No no no

[@Jelloc]

Hi Mr Williams, do you think it could be possible that The Citizen watches are made in the same factory as Grand Seiko pieces? Given the comparable quality and both coming from Japan

[@ditmerk]

No. Omega and Rolex are not made in the same factory either just because both are swiss

[@pushslice]

0.0% chance

[@BruceWilliams]

Different brands, different manufacturing facilities, same country

[@stevespell9634]

Wtf!!

[@CNDcovert]

I came here to shit on the watch but I am actually impressed lmfao. the 22k gold rotor is actually shocking, minus the fact it says k22 on it xd

[@vdbdg]

If you paid $7k for this watch, please reach out, I have a few items for sale that you should be the discerning buyer for.

[@newtonlee7849]

It looks too much like a Series 8 ( too many angular lines). This is the negative of the design. Overall, as you said, G Seiko would be my choice.

[@lucianovictorraulcarillome9032]

Citizen destaca por su eco drive de lujo pero me quedo con grand seiko 😅 es mucho mejor el spring drive. Que eso grand seiko no le gana en cuarzo😅 pero son algo parecidos

[@ShortLifeHax]

*The Citizen Quartz kills the best Grand Seiko Quartz. The best GS makes is Citizens worst at 5 seconds per year. The best Citizen is at 1 second per year something even GS can't match.*

[@daveho852]

better than GS in my opinion 😅

[@Newerasamearea]

Great looking watch let down by the word citizen on the dial and nothing original (dauphine hands, hammered GS type dial, integrated case....all signature features on other watch designs). Will buy one on m when prices collapse 2nd hand or they lose the citizen branding on dial (leaving the eagle)

[@UltraDoug]

Problem 1: it may be ‘The’ Citizen, but the dial still only reads Citizen. Problem 2: coming out of the gate at that price range, you’d expect better finishing on the movement. Problem 3: (as you mentioned) the dial furniture finishing is just not up to snuff. Way too man QC issues. Problem 4: “from arms length” ….exactly. Problem 5: getting away from the name. We’re all conditioned to think “mall watch” when we hear Citizen. $5-6k is an insanely big ask. Bottom line: this line should have launched at the $1-2k range and given time to breathe until it gets its act together.

[@jaer.6540]

No

[@pushslice]

Excellent points. agreed. It kind of feels like citizen thought they could just bunny hop over the half-century of overall investment & efforts GS has made into their brand, and then simply get to “instantly ride shotgun” alongside them. That said, I’m definitely interested to see where this takes the high-end citizen watch category…

[@UltraDoug]

@@pushslice agreed, curious to see where they land. They just need to be a bit more realistic regarding their station in the watch world.

[@Out1sSaidAsOat]

It's a great watch but for those people that say its better than a grand seiko, thats just cope and denial

[@chevy4x466]

I don’t understand why anyone would buy a used watch

[@Ticklethapicklealil]

I’ll take the cheaper and more innovative GS over this. This looks so uninspired for that kind of money 😕

[@lamaludwig1470]

If you spend this money on a Citizen, you know you have lost the control over your life.

[@HdHd-kc9ng]

It's true

[@sharpe8888]

On the contrary it means you know quality without worrying so much about the name. Would you say the same about GS?

[@zillsburyy1]

nothing grand about seiko

[@chia-mingyang5804]

Seriously? It's 2024 and I think they have proven themselves over and over.

[@DSupremeLounge]

I’m impressed. I’d pay $1800 for it. Thanks

[@BruceWilliams]

Lol

[@dr.kevinmoore8889]

Ugly movement, unattractive architecture, laughable finish compared to Grand Seiko. Not even close.

[@mattm1854]

This thing is crap compared to any GS aside from the entry level GS under 4k.

[@SaSpursFan]

The citizen is a dumb name tbh

[@KeepingWatchUK]

No. Bracelet looks like Tissot PRX.

[@d.stiefel869]

Both suck!

[@jorgegonzalezmata524]

Graet wach beautiful