Brushless motor Timing What is Blinky Turbo and Boost never exceed 60 degrees

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[@StrawHatLaw13]

As someone who had no idea what timing/turbo/boost really was this was an amazing primer on the subject. Thank you!

[@tekinprez]

Nicely done. Clarification Boost timing is normally not added all at once at a RPM. It is added over a RPM range. IE if you set 20deg with rpm range of 20k to 30k then it starts adding timing at 20k rpm, at 25k rpm has added 20deg, and at 30k has added the full 20deg. So it increases the timing as rpm increases and you can set any start and end rpm you want to match your setup. Turbo also slides in over time and that ramp rate can be set. IE 2deg per .1sec up to 20deg per .1sec in our case with a Tekin esc.

[@telecomandorc]

I will assume it is the RX8 esc. Such a great esc for 4-pole motors.

[@tekinprez]

@@telecomandorc This is true for all of our esc's. They all have Boost and Turbo features ( We picked those names long ago that have become the industry standards). All of them also run 4pole motors just fine when put in Dual mode, or sensored only with drag motors. RSXpro and Pro2 4pole is perfect in a mini truggy or a 4mod.

[@telecomandorc]

@@tekinprez I used to run the LRP until I ran into the Tekin motors. The Redline just has a stronger front bell constriction (larger screws). And the Pro4 HD 4300 just rocked in a Stampede and made the Tekno SCT410.3 rip on 2S. I still have that motor as it is perfect for a 4-Tec 2.0 mode. But I have not used the RS products yet.

[@FZERO20]

I put my timing settings on my vehicle to equate to 46 degrees after watching a few videos and it seems to be where my V5R MOTOR is happiest. it also stays very cool and has longer run time now. Thanks for this vid

[@telecomandorc]

My pleasure. Side note, most motors I have tested with a rotor gauss strength close to 1700 are happy at about that timing. 45-48 degrees. Motors close to 1600 are generally in the low 50s. I am not claiming this is set in stone, and the law of motors. It is just a coincidence I have observed with 21.5T motors.

[@kaotictube]

Finally I understand timing now. Thank you so much!

[@telecomandorc]

I am glad. It took me a while. I have been asked a few times. I finally had a chance to do an overview.

[@TeamMolasses]

What a great video, thank you so much! I know general knowledge of timing advancing from automotive but im new to mechanical timing on brushless motors. I gained so much knowledge from this video alone. And as a plus you clearly explained boost and turbo in correlation to the mechanical timing which helped me tremendously since advanced esc settings through an app is new to me as well. Can't thank you enough for this video

[@telecomandorc]

My pleasure. Enjoy your RCs. Cheers.🤝

[@johnsonmichaelpaul]

You answered a lot of my questions in one video. Thank you.

[@telecomandorc]

My pleasure.

[@Serial_Enthusiast]

You earned a new sub, great video!

[@telecomandorc]

Thank you kindly.

[@Im_Bloody_Close_to_Being_a_God]

Very good explaining. I've always known how to use the timing, just never how it works!

[@telecomandorc]

🤣 The name is priceless. Glad it was of value.

[@Im_Bloody_Close_to_Being_a_God]

@@telecomandorc thanks 👍

[@yujen1645]

Subbed thank you for explaining this so well, fantastic

[@telecomandorc]

My pleasure.

[@robgrime6840]

Finally I get it... Thank-you. Explained brilliantly 👏 👌

[@telecomandorc]

My pleasure.

[@krailertf]

Thank you for the video. I have been told motor sweet spot is between 5-6 amp. So my can timing is at 42 degree (5.5 amp), no boost, but turbo at 30 degree. So add it all up, 72 is way over 60 you have suggested. Question: should I adjust the timing on the can and run lower amp or just reduce my turbo timing advance?

[@telecomandorc]

Since you are running 42 degrees at 5.5, I will assume you are running a 13.5T. I do have follow up videos to this one. On a two pole motor I tested the timing at just over 100 degrees. It was really fast for drag once I set it up right with low can timing, boost, and turbo. But the heat is exponential. The motor will be too advanced and fight with itself a bit and get hot. So, it will be fast... inefficient, but fast. Consider setting the timing at 38-39 degrees for 5A or just under. Then add some boost (say 10-15 degrees) at a particular rpm (you will have to test this one so it kicks in as you are coming out your average turn onto 'short straight' points. Then add the rest in turbo... but constantly check temps.

[@madvente]

Really a very useful video - many thanks!

[@telecomandorc]

My pleasure. 🤝

[@EdwardPickering]

I run 64* boost and 64* turbo with 50* timing on my Hobbywing G4 21.5T. The kicker is I am using a titanium rotor which changes everything. I could not do this with a standard steel rotor because the motor would burn up in an instant.

[@telecomandorc]

On a follow up to this video, that was the problem. Heat is an issue.

[@DJ.1001]

I understand why 60 degree timing advance should technically be the limit but in practice ive found that not to be the case. I've run timing all the way up to 90 degrees in 10.5t drift motors (for testing) and find that is about where the peak rpm will start to drop off. Drfit maybhe a slight edge case because we have alot less load on the motor and spin the motors much faster than other use cases.

[@telecomandorc]

I have a follow up where I test at over 100 degrees. Really fast but really hot temps. Not something I would do for an extended period of time and not for a 4-pole motor. Only a 2-pole.

[@steveo4thehorde]

Great video, thank you for explaining this.

[@telecomandorc]

My pleasure

[@jbickel7575]

Great job! This actually makes sense!

[@telecomandorc]

Thank you kindly.

[@lawton70]

Great video! Question for you. If a 2 pole motor has a max 60 degrees would a 4 pole motor have a 30 degree max?

[@telecomandorc]

Correct. Now, you can push the 2 pole to more then 60 degrees and it does really fast but the heat it produces is crazy. It becomes very inefficient. I did this in a follow up video. So, you can push a 4 pole further but you will run into similar situations.

[@crabxcorelol69]

Excellent video! Thank you!

[@telecomandorc]

My pleasure. Cheers 🤝

[@MrUltimateConsumer]

This was a great overview. Thank you!

[@telecomandorc]

My pleasure.

[@laserbeam1620]

What a good explanation!! Subscribed!!

[@telecomandorc]

Thank you. 🤝

[@marcosmatos8213]

Glad I found your video dude, great explanation!. I got that exact 13.5 on my tlr 22x4 and today was my first race and I got overlap by the top guys twice since my wheeler was so slow. My class turn out being open timing so I'm gonna swap the escs around for the xr10 g2s on my 17.5. Now the question is: is that motor fixed at 0 timing? I didn't find anything on the documentation I don't want to add 30* at at motor that is already fixed at 40* for example

[@telecomandorc]

This motor has adjustable timing. I played a little with a 2-pole (this motor)... and it handles boost as opposed to 4-pole (4-pole does not handle over 60 degrees). The 2-pole cogged over 60 degrees at low RPM, but then I tried it with boost at a higher RPM, and it ran well. I will publish it tomorrow morning.

[@marcosmatos8213]

I see.. my rig came with the fixed timing version of that motor, so I raced at 0 timing I believe.

[@telecomandorc]

@@marcosmatos8213 Usually fixed timing motors are set at 30 degrees. Setting motors can be a challenge but it can be done if you have set goals. If you do not care about run time it makes it easier. Run the rig for a pack. Take a temperature reading. As long as it is under 160F you are good, and bump up a tooth on the pinion. keep doing it until you notice you are getting close to 160F or it starts loosing too much power and leave it along. Which ever comes first. Now, if you want to add timing, add the timing until you are (depending on the motor) between 45-52 degrees. And then do the above step. Then boost or turbo should be for the bursts where you may need them but careful not to ever heat.

[@marcosmatos8213]

@@telecomandorc I got my programming box in today and managed to plug it into the pc, update and set my parameters. I gave it 10* of boost (40*total assuming my timing is fixed at 30*) and boy what a night and day difference. I kept checking temperature every few laps and the hand says it can manage a bit more. Wondering how much turbo should I add now given the fact you mentioned "high 30s" was the sweet spot for this motors. Does that mean is the most efficient timing for a broad power band but I can push the timing to 50-55 for those few milliseconds all out power? I was having so much fun I didn't even care about tweeking it, I finally have the power I was expecting.

[@telecomandorc]

@@marcosmatos8213 I have a stock USGT motor... it lights up too. Just do 5 degree increments until you find the spot that works for you.

[@backbayhound563]

If someone was setting up a new SCT (or any new RC car) and wanted reliable, long-term, set-it-and-forget-it performance, what electronics would you recommend? Is there a Toyota equivalent in the world of RC electronics? Motor, ESC, batteries, charger, servo, transmitter; all of it.

[@telecomandorc]

Futaba T3PV, Hobbywing Justock G4, Hobbywing G4 17.5T for TC or 13.5T for SCT and a Protek 160 SS servo for TC of 155 for SCT.

[@backbayhound563]

@@telecomandorc Thanks for that. Futaba used to sell a kit that included transmitter, receiver, servo, and ESC which was nice for its all-in-one simplicity. It seems like there was a move to a la carte electronics at some point with a ton of new options and names.

[@telecomandorc]

@@backbayhound563 Most things are a la carte now. Even Sanwa sells TX-RX, esc, and servo separate. Although, it is a very good combination if one wants the bells and whistles with telemetry. But they are no longer a package.

[@SuPeRcAr250]

I have 2838 3800kv motor, which from my research is a 4 pole motor in my Arrma granite grom. I’m not racing it obviously but I’m just curious. Would safe timing be 22.5 degrees combined of turbo and boost (as max timing is 30 degrees on a 4 pole motor)? I’m just curious as I like to tinker with my toys and I’d like to get the most efficient power as I can out of the motor. Also what would you recommend for turbo delay?

[@telecomandorc]

I would push it all the way. Turbo does not kick it until you go full throttle. You can probably set boost to 10K rpm. What esc are you running? Can you program boost in increments?

[@josephcaruana9165]

Kindly I have a Hobbywing Max6 g2 combo 1650kv motor, and I usually I give 24⁰ Turbo timing and 0.2s delay, but now I purchased a DX5 Pro, and I am using around 2.0 seconds delay and I adjusted the turbo timing to instant and I press full throttle but the radio will take two seconds to go to full power. The question is that I do not know when the turbo kicks in. Does it kick in instantly or after the esc is in full output after the 2 seconds delay?

[@telecomandorc]

Turbo kicks in at soon as you go full throttle. But you can program and incremental increase to "full Turbo" which sounds to be what happened here. These are three possible scenarios based on Teking RX8 settings. Scenario 1: Turbo kicks in right away at full throttle. Scenario 2: Set a delay and full turbo kicks in 2 sec. later. Scenarios 3: Set a 2 second incremental delay when every .2 sec. a partial turbo is added until it reaches the 24 degrees after 2 seconds. I think you accidently set it up to the thirds one in your esc. This is something usually done for drag racing for example. If this is the case, you will need to go back into the esc settings. Are you using a link to program the settings? Did I answer your question?

[@richardbrown6762]

Can you remove the back plate on the spectrum 6000kv motor for the mini t with the 2.m shaft to oil the bearing ?

[@telecomandorc]

I am not sure how to open the mini motor. It is the 1/24 scale motor? But I think there is enough of the bearings exposed to as a drop of oil.

[@daletennett4812]

I'm an oval guy that races 17.5 open classes. If we were to follow this, we would be dead slow. On high bite ovals I run 30 on the can, max boost(60-65 pending mfg'r) starting at 1500 rpm, and up to 20 turbo pending the straight length. Yes I do run 2 fans on the motor during the summer months. Even the Tekin guys were running similar settings and they have a note explaining what you're saying. Any chance this could just be for the can timing? Great video either way!!

[@telecomandorc]

Awesome info. I did two follow up videos I thinking. Once you exceed 120 degrees, it spins backwards (I did not show this in any video). But I think you are right about the can. I think if the timing on the can goes beyond it will cog up as I managed to cog one up badly. But through the esc I got one to go really fast, hot, but fast on a different try. So I think the esc has a way to time it right. I guess sensors go a long way. But, man, did it drain the pack. I think I ran just over 100 degrees combined between the can, boost, and turbo.

[@daletennett4812]

@@telecomandorc Yeah the electronics do get hot. Thats why in my sprint & late model I run 2 fans on the motor and one on the esc during the summer months. I run 6400mah shorties and some guys are starting to run stick packs in their sprints if they can fit them so we will have power at the end of the race. Also gear down like you're running a 10.5 motor. My motor and esc was coming off at around 140 deg after a 3min qual in 98 deg air temp.

[@telecomandorc]

@@daletennett4812 That is very go to keep it at 140F. I would probably push it a bit more. Quite impressive, I think. Have you run any turbo? I am curious if you only run the 30 on the can and 60-65 boost or if you have trying boost. I am not sure if the oval you run is long enough to have two "straights".

[@daletennett4812]

@@telecomandorc yes I was running turbo. Can at 30, boost at 64 (max allowed by esc) with initial angle at 30, 25 deg ramp up/ .1 sec, Turbo at 20 with 12 deg ramp up/.1sec. You can activate boost based upon RPM or throttle. I had mine set for throttle at 35%. So when I got to 35% throttle and further, boost kicked in. Boost is low to mid end on the motor and turbo is only applied at full throttle.

[@telecomandorc]

@@daletennett4812 I am quite impressed. Are you running 40mm dual fans or 30mm? Have you found RC fans rated in CFM? I have been trying to look for specs like this and have not found them.

[@Zaggerton]

Does this info go with Rc Drifting as well.? Not sure if you yourself have tried this/that part of the hobby with Timing and Boost&Turbo..?

[@telecomandorc]

The same principles apply. But I do have follow up videos.

[@fusion82]

I run 95 degrees of timing on a trinity 4.0 and that's where it runs it's best. 50 on the can and 45 in the esc

[@telecomandorc]

Nice. I do have follow up test to this video. Curious, what are your run times and temps? Is it boost or timing or a mix? TC?

[@fusion82]

@@telecomandorc 45 degrees of cheat timing on castle X6s esc on a traxxas bandit. Average times I get on gnss is 1.75 in 132ft. Sometimes I get high 1.6's. I'm not sure the exact temperature it gets to but it doesn't get hot to the touch until 4 runs back to back.

[@telecomandorc]

@@fusion82 Ah, you drag with it. I cannot see it heating much compared to a 5 minute main. Bandit? Nice! Those are such sleepers. Do you have the 272R in it?

[@fusion82]

@@telecomandorc yes I have the magnum 272r. Never broke the transmission or the heavy duty plastic driveshafts.

[@anthonya7443]

As stated by others, thank you very much for your easy and thurough explanation. My only question would be: What about RC boats? As there is more load due to the denser medium opposing the turning of the propeller? Would I need to set timing relatively lower or higher compared to cars(tarmac) or planes(air), with the mediums being less dense respectively? Hope this makes sense. Thanks again!

[@telecomandorc]

Makes sense. I do not have experience with brushless boat applications, but lower timing sounds like a winner. With planes, one generally uses a smaller prop on higher turn motors and larger props on higher turn motors. The same with gearing. Now, adding timing into the mix, and the fact that water is tough to over come especially at speed... I would guess timing should probably be between 30-45 degrees as amp draw would climb fast especially at higher timing with the prop load. So, I think you are spot on.

[@michaelchopper7317]

Could you suggest formula for 7.5t sprint high bite

[@telecomandorc]

Not sure. Maybe if you give me more details.

[@michaelchopper7317]

Be happy to what details do you need

[@michaelchopper7317]

I have 2 sprints one mod with hw 7.5 and hw xr10 pro elite 2 and the other is 13.5 same esc with revtech xfactor 13.5 that have been running in stock "blinky" it has adjust for timing looks like it's just set at above 50degrees haven't moved it since new as I'm pretty unfamiliar with timing I can send phone# to u thanks for any help

[@telecomandorc]

@@michaelchopper7317 I would leave them and just adjust the gearing as the end balls are not always accurate. If I have to take a guess I would say the 13.5T is close to 35 degrees and the 7.5T is close to 30 degrees. I have these videos on a 13.5T: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5OpZH5nprJ0iZo kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZnUq4l9ltRjmtk They will give you an idea about the Kv per timing on the 13.5T. Since that video I have found that 4.5A draw is generally best for blinky.

[@giomallysille1663]

I have heard about running 100 plus timing ,like running 30 degrees on can and more than 70 or 80 degrees of turbo/boost

[@telecomandorc]

I have not heard of it. Even going up to 60 degrees, the amp draw shoots up exponentially. The heat is massive compared to lower timing. So going up to 100 degrees would draw a lot of current and create massive heat. A TC motor would not handle it for a full race if the battery pack even had enough capacity. I will do an experiment once rain clears again with an HW X10 G2 esc and a Trinity Slot Machine 13.5T. But in the mean time... below is a link from Tekin regarding timing. Scroll down to the section titled "Timing seonsored only" subsection "Turbo" and they have a note there. Not much information, but they recommend never exceeding 60 degrees.

[@illconductSRT8]

I run 90- 116* on a 4pole. I think he’s talking about at startup. The party just starts at 60*

[@fusion82]

@@illconductSRT8 true. I run 95 degrees of timing on a trinity 4.0 and it loves it. Motor or esc doesn't get hot

[@thomasvennekens4137]

is this for a delta or star wound ?

[@telecomandorc]

Not sure about the difference between the two in terms of timing. The main difference is parallel vs series. I could be wrong. But I am not sure there is a timing difference.

[@micahjared8082]

Nice. Cheers from deeep in the Mtns of NY 🦾🍻 You taught alot in a scant 19mns. TY Bro. Subscribed.

[@telecomandorc]

Glad. I do have some updates and tests since this one. I hope you enjoy those as well. Cheers.

[@garrynelson2861]

Would this tuning apply to 1s?

[@telecomandorc]

Yes, any two pole motor.

[@thesouthwestern]

how low can you go in degrees?

[@thesouthwestern]

and if yo set timing io motor, do you have to match it in esc programing, or is esc programming to add degrees?

[@telecomandorc]

@@thesouthwestern Below 30 degrees the motor is a dog. The timing in the end bell is mechanical and you do not need to program it in the esc. But if you add timing to the esc keep add the mechanical timing so you do not jump a phase. 45 degrees is a good starting set point on a motor.

[@mattsease4687]

​@@telecomandorcthat explains why my 10.5t felt like a snail. Factory set it to 20* 😂

[@telecomandorc]

@@mattsease4687 😂😅Sorry for the laugh, but that will do it. Although, your runtime was probably amazing.

[@likzen8876]

"missfire" what my understanding

[@telecomandorc]

In a nutshell.

[@redapplepie7709]

My english so suck bro, maybe more simple is turbo timing make your rc landing more smoth when rolling in the air??

[@telecomandorc]

It does not help landing smoothly. To land smoothly you have to time the jump and try to land similar to the down ramp without accelerating before you land.

[@Dirty263]

So why people say u can run 58 and 58 degrees boost and turbo

[@telecomandorc]

No clue. I have not heard of it. But 58+58=116 and that is almost an entire phase. I do not have sacrificial electronics at this point, but when I do, I shall do it just for kicks.