Buddy Rich Left Hand Study

Here's a tip I got from Ken Loomer when Buddy showed him a stick technique. Also, I noticed a picture of Buddys left hand. A very small move. Check this out.
My website: stgeorgeproductions.net/

[@danhabu4731]

Great video about Buddy Rich. Another coupla things about Buddy's left hand- 1. The height and angle of the snare is set very high and angled downward so that the left hand is lower and closer to the head and rim. This places the stick low, level and even to the head of the drum. As you mentioned as to Buddy gripping the stick towards the middle, from this position, it places the stick bead in the center of the drum. 2. Buddy's posture favored the speed and freedom of his left hand. Buddy sat with his stool kinda high. He dropped his right shoulder in a heavy slouch, releasing tension in his shoulders and dropping his elbows lower with his hands higher. This slouching posture, which is the complete opposite of what i was taught, caused Buddy to look to his left almost constantly. This posture also causes the left arm and grip to loosen up, freeing it's movement, speed and control. try it, it works. 3. Buddy used 2 styles of traditional grip. The first is just what you showed in the video. The other traditional grip he used was turning the left hand over so that the thumb and fingers are more on top of the stick. This transfers the power of the stick from the arm and wrist to the fulcrum and fingers only. This is another reason buddy would rest the stick on his middle knuckle rather than the end knuckle. When you see him do the so called one handed roll, he would often use this grip to push with the fulcrum and pull with the top finger.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Great observations!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Interesting. Please make a video to explain more. Sound great!

[@1banjrpkr]

If there ever was a “The Man” on jazz drums, it’s Buddy Rich! I only got to see him live one time, but it was great!!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes, the first time I saw him I got a seat next to the third trombone. It was amazing. Never forgot it. All the other times it was in large venues from a distance. Still great, but not like that fist night when I was 18. Miami at Tony's Fish Market on the 79th Steet Causway. 1971.

[@robertdore9592]

Thank you so much for illustrating this so well,💯👏👏👏👏👏

[@elphantomrebel]

Buddy's left hand should be in some hall of fame on it's own! Thank you for the tip. It will be helpful. I am also a lifetime fan of Buddy. I have been recently rewatching all his Carson appearances!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

I have tried to move on from Buddy, just to study what's out there. They are all great, for sure, but I cannot change my view. In the words of Gene Krupa: 'He is the greatest drummer to ever draw breath'.

[@arturosaenz9120]

I have always played traditional grip,your explanation on the grip in the ring finger is spot on,sometimes I'll catch myself moving the stick further down like you said,and it does make a difference in technique,in my experience playing 50 ,s rock and roll ,playing a bit back on the stick gives me more power for a back beat,but less in finesse, thank you for your explanation

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

My pleasure. With regards to pulling back for power, yes I would do the same. But not buddy. Watch him. He has power in the middle. Amazing.

[@tonynewell3801]

Thanks for video. Very subtle indeed but produces not so subtle results. Much appreciated, Brother.

[@Noah-gq7pq]

thankx john,,you can never learn enough about the details ,thats paying attention,

[@philatkinson3955]

Way cool, just went down to the snare and moving the stick to the knuckle and towards the center felt like I had more control. Being a science teacher for 37 years, I realized that the fulcrum pt. of any lever increases power (in this case speed) as you move the resistance force back...amazing video! Thanks so much John for your input, I just need to practice this to get a settled feeling or that sweet spot of muscle memory in my brain. I. 😎🤘

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

You are quite welcome. You are right. The lead push is in the fulcrum. But then there is that gentle guidance with the pointer and index finger. Teach your muscles. BUDDY never even thought about it. He was listening to the music and singing along with that left hand. Be well....

[@pjbilodeau]

Thank you John for this video, one of the comments I read mentioned that Gene Krupa demonstrated this grip in his 'Drum Methods' book, I went and checked it out and yes, the photo shows the exact grip that you present moving the stick to the middle of the ring finger away from the fingernail. This is a great tip for folks that use the rudimental grip.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes. And I noticed a photo of Buddy's hand with the stick before the knuckle. Sadly I noticed it after many years of playing wrong. You get more power with it too All the best and knock em dead out there!

[@miguelalfoya2031]

Thanks for sharing this!🙌 🙏

[@josephgiarraffa6379]

It’s inspiring to see all theses decades later we are still trying to figure out Buddy’s mastery Well the truth is we can’t We can figure our own way to achieve what he did but not like Buddy There’s only one buddy who wasn’t human he was a super being on earth 😜

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes. But what makes life interesting is trying to climb that mountain. If you can't reach Perfection.. then at least go in that Direction...

[@darkknightenberg]

​@@mrjohnstgeorgegonna put that on my quotes of all time

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

@@darkknightenberg thx!

[@RvP6384]

Thank you very much for this video! Great instuction and insight. Great effort.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Thank you for the feedback. All the best...

[@bovinejonie3745]

Awesome tip. Truly amazing. I am eternally grateful to you, sir.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Check my Parr two video. I expand on the results. All the best. Be well. And thank you.

[@bovinejonie3745]

@@mrjohnstgeorge Will do. Thank you.

[@adamgalluppi5017]

Thanks for the insight, I never even thought if something so subtle and now that you mention it I too held it at the end of the finger!! I’m gonna try this technique and see what happens!! Thanks!!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Go for it!

[@Mike35858]

I like your explanation and break down of the traditional grip, which I find hard to do. Thank you very much.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Give it time. Just tap along with some music. It will loosen and feel natural as time goes on...

[@nj_resident6705]

Thanks! Nice presentation. 🥁

[@tskolits1]

That was great. Thank you!

[@drummerundercover6299]

Subscribed❤❤❤ love the teaching

[@jazzpianoman01]

Great video; I’ve been studying videos on Buddy’s left hand secret and this has opened up a new area for exploration

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

I did another on what I call, The Squeeze Back. Hit down, then squeeze back with the fingers. I hope that makes sense.

[@jazzpianoman01]

@@mrjohnstgeorge Drop/catch technique? I think I saw one or two videos on You Tube with that approach.

[@Ambassador055]

Great tip. Thanks for posting.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

I did a part two. See what happens after you use it for a whole. Just use my headline info and add part 2.

[@Ambassador055]

@@mrjohnstgeorge I’ll check it out

[@richavallone9912]

Excellent points! Tip of ring finger is how I learned. Will be using these tips

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yeah. When I saw that picture of Buddy and how the stick was Over/On Top of the ring finger Knuckle, it really stood out like a Greyhound Bus! I said: 'Wait a minute. Let me feel this!"

[@sappermade6012]

You are doing it perfectly!!!! Great example

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Thank you so much. I made a part two of this video. There is another technique I found from this grip. Let me know what you think.

[@johnglover4453]

Great video! *Very* helpful!!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

That Buddy picture I saw with the stick behind the knuckle on the ring finger really makes a difference. There's more POWER that way as opposed to holding far back on the stick. What do you think?

[@josephmonaco4503]

I just wrote a 15 minute response to you about when I changed over to the traditional grip. Then my power when out and I lost the whole message. But, I have a brand new rebuilt 1970 Slingerland Vintage White Marine Pearl finished wrap and recovered my whole set and bought all new hardware & hoops that are the lighter ones from the 60's and every piece of hardware has been replaced. So, I now have a brand new 1970 Slingerland drum set with a 14x26 bass drum, that is a mahogany/poplar/mahogany drum. a 9x13 mounted tom, a 16x16 floor tom and a 16x18 floor tom and a 1976 Buddy Rich TDR maple snare that is a Maple/poplar/maple drum that is amazing. All of the drums have reinforcement hoops. I bought all new hardware , lugs, screws & hoops. Then I recovered the whole set in " Vintage White Marine Pearl wrap which make the whole drum set look like brand new and they are tuned properly and sound so big and fat sounding. All of my bottom and front of my bass drum are all tighter that that top skins. So, they sound amazing " As they should be. I use a Tama Tension watch to make every lug exactly the same" So, they sound perfect without any effects on them live. Thank you for your wonderful video and you decades of knowledge of True Buddy Rich /Jazz drumming. Joseph Monaco

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

WOW. I'm in heaven listening to your details! What type of tom tom mount do you have? The: 'Set it and Forget It?' You know which one I mean? But 26 bass? The Cannon!.. The set sounds perfect man. Enjoy. And thank you for liking my presentation. Welcome to traditional grip!

[@ericharding92]

Great stuff! Very helpful

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Be well!

[@thenerv37]

That's exactly how the Gene Krupa Method teaches the traditional grip.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

I never knew about a Krupa method. I will look into it. Thanks for your comment. Play those drums!

[@josephdsnell56]

I never was taught by Krupa, that's just the way we were taught in High School band. You can play a great drum roll with that grip. Buddy knows!

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

Yeah Buddy copied it from Gene.

[@josephdsnell56]

​@@dcmastermindfirst9418 It's a "traditional" grip. Krupa didn't invent it.

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

@josephdsnell56 Gene still pioneered it in the big band scene. Without Gene there is no Buddy. Even Gene's setup inspired the way Buddy did it. Get the point?

[@brianchisnell1548]

52 year trad. guy here. The biggest tip I learned, is to make sure fulcrum of the left matches the fulcrum of the right.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Sounds cool. I hope you post something. I'd like to see what you mean...

[@brianchisnell1548]

@@mrjohnstgeorge Buddy Rich said most trad. grip drummers hold the left stick too far back. The pinch between thumb and index finger should be the same distance from the butt end of the stick as the pinch of the right stick. Pinch being fulcrum. This changes with different sticks, but the hands remain equal.

[@dylangatenby9928]

Great description of what Buddy did and it’s true the tighter you hold the stick on the left hand it does have a tendency to go faster as it hits the drum head. I personally think that’s the technique Buddy used as opposed to Joe Morello’s finger technique

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

It starts to 'fly' by itself when you hold the stick closer to the middle while keeping the stick behind the ring finger knuckle. Yes you need wrist. Yes you need rebound. Yes you need a wide stroke. All the things Buddy did right.

[@johnbock1896]

In essence, what one is doing ( Buddy and all drummers that "get it"... and u seem to have figured it out),is simply applying,controlling and harnessing the sticks natural centrifugal force . It's like a slinky,once one gets going,i e once the stick starts moving, the hand and finger manipulations simply guide it, harness it and control the natural centrifugal force set into motion.One is not moving the stick per se,as much as one is moving ones hand and "surfing"with the sticks natural movements.The fingers/ hand coax the stick almost..... just set it in motion and ride with it. Trad grip, Buddy style is a complete art form in and of itself.Buddy did things with one hand I can barely do with two!..... I'm no slouch and can hold my weight against Anyone!,..... but Buddy is a whole other level of brilliant genius and technical mastery beyond ANYONE ELSE EVER. I love Elvin , but he could never have done those long rudimental rolls and long extended rudimental phrases that smoke ad infinitum for, literally, minutes.Buddy was simply the best!🥁 JDB

[@normansateriale9497]

Wow ! This is a crucial point that I've overlooked all these years ! Keeping the stick balanced on the ring finger knuckle ! Just tried it and discovered new found rebound ! Thanks for this analysis !

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

@@normansateriale9497 you are quite welcome. I made a part two of the same title. If you find jt let me know what you think. The squeeze back.

[@Ross58]

Hi John, I just came across this video and thanks. I feel it makes a really big difference for the better to position the stick further up the ring finger as you explained. It might seem subtle, but the first thing I noticed was a change in the hand and the grip feels much stronger. The only set back for me in making this change was a small blister, but that is a small price to pay … For me, it has been a god send as I play marching snare with large marching sticks. I can’t comment on any speed improvements at this point, but I feel it fair to say, first up, it offers better control. Best wishes from Australia 🇦🇺

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Hi. Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Yes, there is more power with the stick further up the ring finger. Then be sure and move your wrist like you're opening a door nob. Just make that motion in front of you without the stick. Then put a stick in your hand. Good grip, then SLAM AWAY when you need that power. Then take a look at my part two video where this grip gives me better finger control for technique-jazz. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaiaeYGpjsuHns0 Be well out there on the field!

[@M123OCT]

I admire most your modest and humble approach to explaining the topic. You seem like you would be a good teacher, not like so many of the shouty, know-it-alls on KZbin and the internet generally. 👍 That was interesting.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Thank you. Be well!

[@briansharp4471]

I agree ! ..I was not that comfortable with stoke to close to ring finger ..and found playing closer to middle of stick better for me ! …I’m also fairly new at traditional grip ..I really like how it feels

[@juandelospalotespalotes7455]

Excelente!!! He tocado durante años con agarre tradicional y siempre hay algo nuevo (y bueno) para aprender.Saludos desde Necochea, Argentina.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Estoy muy feliz de que hayas disfrutado del video. Hay muchos músculos en la mano que no usas. Buddy usó la cantidad correcta de empuje y tirón que creó ese sonido de baile y velocidad.

[@juandelospalotespalotes7455]

@@mrjohnstgeorge ,es cierto que todo ha sido inventado.Pero también es cierto que antes no había posibilidad de ver videos y poder aprender tantos trucos de gente tan talentosa, nuevamente muchas gracias!!!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

@@juandelospalotespalotes7455 Solo recuerda, mantén esa sentada detrás del nudillo en el dedo anular. Usa tu muñeca como si estuvieras abriendo la perilla de una puerta. La velocidad aumenta.

[@tyronnhamilton254]

Very nice… totally makes sense.. I’m trying this out.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Let is know how it works for you

[@EMTdrummer]

I loved the video... thanks

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Thank ypu. Check my part two. Same headline with part two. The finger control get better. Be well.

[@Alex-pe6os]

Thank you.

[@TheLancab]

The buddy rich technique is more than what is shown....I known....I study with his friend Charlie from LoRose music shop at Edison NJ.....😊

[@seanhorihan9280]

Nice observation! I wish more teachers would point this out! Ring finger position has always been the main difference between traditional drumcorps players and many of the great drumset players. I noticed this with guys like Virgil Donati when I saw him play live. When the stick sits farther down in between your fingers, it really helps with moving around the kit. You can whip your arm to the left and your ring finger keeps the stick in position. More accuracy, more control.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Your statements are spot on. The sad news for me is I did not realize this until the posting of this video. After learning from Ken Loomer the middle stick position, then noticing that picture of Buddy keeping it above the knuckle, then did I learn how wrong I was. Buddy's power singles around the set stay strong because of this grip. Let's us know what you learn from jt. Be well.

[@johnmarshall7096]

Excellent demo on the Greatest ever!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Thank you. I did a part two to show what I discovered with the grip and how it leads to better finger control. Hope you find it.

[@johnmarshall7096]

I found it lol! Well since I'm a few decades older than you at least and grew up with match Group this is the first time in my life I'm glad I'm older lol the advantages of starting with this or irreplaceable becomes instinct. I played rock 'n' roll for a while I played everything you said believe it or not country and western. I was a member of the Music union local 802 here in East Coast Hawaii used to play gigs on weekends and tuxedos oh that was torture! I had a play bossa nova's merengues tangos. It was OK I needed the money and paid well but it was horribly torture is playing with year olds and I was 20. Unfortunately these guys were actually never understood how to play! Forgive the expression but it was paid to play! The people who played kiss ass of the leaders of the of the gigs and he reported to the bandleader as you said something wrong he would tell you drummed horribly even if you were great if you were terrible and you kissed his ass he said oh this guy is great keep giving him jobs! After a while I just said I don't want the money goodbye. The modern drummer as of today very Loosey goosey drumming to cover using modern drumming techniques some very good skills but again when it comes to solos they are clueless they think banging high-speed going around 40 drums as a solo. They don't understand a solo is a song it Has to have rhythm melody because drums don't play melody but it has the sound melodic they just bang away at high speeds run the ground the drum drum drum drum drum!

[@davidiracheta111]

Wowwwwwwwwwww, conocía ésta técnica desde hace mucho tiempo, pero, es la primera vez que la veo en un video. Efectivamente, se conoce como la técnica de "Buddy Rich". Saludos desde México

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Since you have jnown it for a long time, does the stick start to fly by itself? Do you then master the rebound for even more speed?

[@yankeekilo1]

i agree with every second of this video thanks a lot!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Why thank you. My next adventure is to study Freddy Gruber and this interesting 'rebound' thing of his.

[@cruiselover2085]

Good tips, thanks 🙂👍🏻

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Let us know how it works for you

[@Littlevfxx]

im glad you put this on here so I learn now while im 18 and now when Im that age haha. Video is great and very informational thankyou!!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

18 huh? Great. Go traditional grip. Learn the rudiments around the set and knock them out my man.

[@l3drm]

Thanks for the tip!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

You got it..

[@bobbysands6923]

thanks for the post and thanks for trying to help us get better....

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

You are welcome. Pass it on. Duffy Jackson did that..

[@mjm5081]

Thank you for sharing! Happy Drumming!!!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

You too...

[@mjm5081]

@@mrjohnstgeorge 😃 👍 👊

[@ellisweiner6405]

Nicely said. I noticed how Buddy holds the stick at the center. Compare to the also great Keith Carlock, who holds his left hand a the very back of the stick. I prefer what you're talking about. Thank you!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

It's not me. It's like Buddy in the room, looking at how you hold your stick, then he tells you what he does. Would you listen? Would any drummer listen? Would any drummer disagree?

[@edmundclarke1122]

Thank you john really I love that style always played match 42 yrs ago but due to road traffic accident not played sinc 42 yrs well 6 maths ago I bought practice pad decide to master traditional grip as challenging as it is I really love this style and keep the stick across the ring nail never felt comfortable and I play the way you described and it’s cool fast more control and love it , as for right hand trying to master middle finger fulcrum that’s challenging as well great article hope you continue to post more regards edmund

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Nice to hear from you Edmund.. I made another dealing with 'the squeeze'.. If you notice Buddy's left hand, it's not so much of the 'pushing down' as it is the 'squeeze back.' It's a great exercise. I hope you find the video and try it. Let me know how it works for you.

[@chinautapropertyforsaleorr4018]

@@mrjohnstgeorge hi john thanks for your reply you sent me the same video of buddy rich resting stick over knuckle not resting on finger nail you mentioned another video mentioned pushing squeezing please send if available great move I love this technique use it never thought about paradiddle eith two fingers I use push pull great effect

[@chinautapropertyforsaleorr4018]

John I’ve found ur video push pull doing swing with left hand using index and third finger to move it’s great challenging but it’s very interesting

[@chinautapropertyforsaleorr4018]

John have you seen greyson nekrutman he is very young taken to buddy rich style of drumming incredible technique speed flair he’s the next buddy rich it seems doing yours , but !!!! He won’t share his technique ideas just puts videos on Facebook utube

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

@@chinautapropertyforsaleorr4018 I will check Greyson. The ultimate technique teacher is: Freddy Gruber. He's the master of 'let the stick play'. His big rule? 'Don't get ahead of yourself'. Let the stick complete it's motion before you try the next move.

[@walterhinojosa7390]

Many thanks...very HANDY

[@JDRELGOR]

Hi, thanks for the tutorial, I've just seen Dave Brubeck ( take five ) same left hand stick position.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes, but just a SLIGHT difference. Joe was amazing. I'm still trying to learn how to walk and chew gum at the same time... I met Joe in 1970 at the University of Miami Drum Clinic. Cool guy.

[@manuelgchapajr2000]

Exactly how I was taught in 1969 and still use today

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Cool

[@thombarker7579]

Learned that grip in 1967. Don't even need the index and middle finger to get great speed.

[@Javi7Tron]

It doesn´t matter the grip, the key of Buddy Rich and the best drummers is the master of the "free stroke" , the use of rebound. This is the key of technique. If you see the stick , it jumps up due to reaction force of surface at an incredible acceleration. Most people think that Buddy studied in secret with Billy Gladstone.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Rebound Rules. You're right. The first time I picked up a stick and applied it to a drum, I said to myself: "Hey, you use the 'bounce' off the head." You don't just SLAM the stick into the head..

[@brianchisnell1548]

Buddy never studied. He listened!! Chick Webb, Gene, Papa. He just surpassed them.

[@Javi7Tron]

@@brianchisnell1548 this is absolute false, and obiously is stupid to belive that.

[@carpenterpilot487]

Thats the way I been taught just like buddy rich holding the stick lefthand, better control

[@Aditiyan]

Thanks very much for sharing

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Sure thing. Let us know how it works out for you.

[@Aditiyan]

@@mrjohnstgeorge Will do. God bless you

[@bkrider19]

Good points. Very interesting. And on the right hand, for single-stroke rolls his grip is completely different from what most of us do, basically a "don't try this at home" grip with mostly the thumb and only the index finger.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Don't forget 'the squeeze' on the right hand. Drop the stick, then use the four fingers to 'squeeze' back. Drop-Squeeze Drop-Squeeze. Squeeze back fast for fast tempo. Who needs wrist action on the right hand. I'll make a video on that.

[@camerondean6804]

@@mrjohnstgeorge Looking forward to your analysis of his right hand. Merry Christmas.

[@808airgunsbackyardaz6]

Nice giving it a try

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Check some Buddy Videos and watch how he's just about in the middle of the stick.

[@okamu1120]

素晴らしい、ありがとう！！

[@eldiablo3794]

I've always noticed buddy doing the what I call the swivel finger technique like how you're explaining 3:12 where he moves his pointer and middle finger back-and-forth while balancing the stick on his knuckle of his ring finger. Me personally I've always choked up on the stick to where I'm holding it in the middle of the stick. I never understood how drummers like Steve Jordan play all the way back on the stick where the stick is extended so far past his fingers and hes practically holding the butt of the stick with his traditional grip.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes. I would hold the stick way back, thinking I would have more power. But hey, if you want power go match grip.

[@salthedrummer1]

Very cool thanks

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

All the best Sal...

[@AxterAstelium]

La inclinación de la caja es indispensable para sacar mejor provecho de ésta técnica de sujeción de la baqueta.

[@tedhansen3846]

John, I don't have formal training on drums but I can play 😢 and have a gig at church every Sunday. Major problem though..I don't know when to stop. Do You have a way to tell when the song will end I play by 👂?

[@raymondbaylis9016]

Thanks buddy I will try That regards ray

[@andrewebel233]

I agree completely, I have been working on this for years. At time it feels as though my stroke is almost backwards like it feels like my ring finger makes an upward stroke and the bounce is from my thumb index finger.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

That's the correct feel. There is a squeeze in and squeeze out feeling. Check my Buddy Rich Left Hand Study Part Two. I made it about 6 months after I did ths. Things change for the better.

[@edgarallansotopadilla9387]

Great stick saludos

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Thank you...

[@bolisongcoastalliving3152]

Buddy also had very thin sticks. Me and a friend talked to Buddy during his break between sets. It was amazing How much sound he got from such thin sticks. My friend asked for a pair of his sticks and he went UP to his drums and gave him a pair. I think those thin sticks gave him the ability to finger them.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes. They were 5As, but there was something different about them. To me they were 'fat' but 'Light'. And the tips were smaller. Plus they were slightly longer than your typical 5a. I had a pair someone gave me off his set. Buddy broke a stick and tossed it. I ended up with it. My friend (Who was working for the band that night) got me a clean stick out of his bag. That extra length gives you more 'whip power'. Then the light tips give you the butter fly effect around the cymbals. Dynamics. He had that and everything else.

[@dylangatenby9928]

@@mrjohnstgeorge What brand were those 5A’s? Buddy used to play Pro-Mark and also the Ludwig 15A model

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

@@dylangatenby9928 Vic Firth sticks. Buddy Rich model.

[@bobbydale1938]

Nice ! 😊

[@ROCKNROLLFAN]

PRINCE used traditional grip when he played digital drums on the Rave into the Year 2000 DVD.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Sure. Prince was the "Prince of Cool'. Traditional is the way to go with that style. But I'd probably play along with Traditional. I was brought up that way.

[@ROCKNROLLFAN]

I have to get my traditional grip stronger on the left hand cuz it's weak and not coordinated yet especially after being taught match grip 27 YEARS AGO. How are you working the stick with the 1st and 2nd fingers on the left hand?

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

I work them with a light 'squeeze it down'. I know that may sound strange. Jazz drummers kind of 'tap around' with the melody. Comping. I'll make a video on it. May your practice pay off. Welcome to Traditional Grip. A new golf swing for you, perhaps..

[@hairyd61]

Thanks for this. I'm just diving back into trad grip, and this is something I have never heard of before. By the way, hold old is your practice pad? Looks cool 👍

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

The practice pad is from 1973. Slingerland. My first year in college. My drum teacher (A Freddy Gtuber type,) taught me how to read music on that pad. Glad you are getting into traditional. The technique is a beautiful thing. I need to update the video. I discovered some new things. Will share soon.

[@hairyd61]

@@mrjohnstgeorge thanks very much for the reply John. I’ll look forward to seeing the new video 👍

[@peacefulbliss1]

Interesting lesson, thanks for sharing. I'm always trying to learn tips about Buddy Rich. Can this be done with matched? Does traditional have any advantages over matched? Thank you.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Hello Fighter 91. From my personal playing, I used matched for one thing and one thing only: Ultimate Power Hits. When I need to be loud to keep up with the band, MATCHED I GO. But, when I'm with a Jazz Combo in a small club it's Traditional all the way. The benefit (to me) is there is more 'musical technique' with the 'pull back' control you can get with your fingers. For me, matched does not give me the dynamics I need when doing a Jazz approach. I'm sure a Matched Person would have alternative views on this...

[@peacefulbliss1]

@@mrjohnstgeorge Appreciate your thoughts. I guess it's a personal preference. The one thing I have always thought is, if traditional is better for getting subtle dynamics on the snare with your left, why not hold it that way in your right hand for all your cymbal patterns? But I get it, personal choice and feel. Makes some players play differently by making that switch.

[@hsalvador1031]

Buddy was so concerned about his grip but had the worst posture of all drummers. Know wonder he had chronic back problems.

[@bp7901]

You suffer for your art.

[@zachary813]

Traditional grip may be played open or closed, or in a fluid variation between open and closed.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Of course. Yes.

[@howardlawrence541]

Terrific vid and info! Have you done anymore? How about the right hand and foot? You have a great voice and technique. Should be in the entertainment and voice over business. Thanks for posting, I’m anxious to try this.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Why thank you. Before I got into radio, I was a full time drummer. Then the 'radio bug' hit. Funny. Drums and Rhythm along with writing advertising and Jingles go together. I produced some New Years Liners for a radio station using my drums for a new years countdown. And yes, I have a Six Stroke and a Seven Stroke I want to make a video on. Nice to hear from you Lawrence. Happy New Year.

[@howardlawrence541]

@@mrjohnstgeorge Thanks for the reply. My first big improvement came from watching Henry Adler’s video. What you show made another giant leap in my technique and..enjoyment! I am..still struggling with balance in my right hand and foot. Anxious to learn more..even at my young age of 68. Thanks again and Happy New Year to you too.

[@giannitama]

wise suggestion about the Buddy left hand secret..

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Give it a try. Let us know how it works for you..

[@howardlawrence541]

Dooh! You are in the business! My bad. Thanks.

[@allenelberg1932]

I’d like to purchase the stand and pad you’re using. What’s the name and place I can purchase them? Same with the drum sticks you are using! Thanks great video!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

The pad is a 1973 Slingerland pad. No longer made. The stand is a 1966 Slingerland Cymbal stand I converted to a pad stand. The sticks however, not a problem. They are the Buddy Rich 5a sticks made by Vic Forth. You can find them in Guitar Center, on line or at your favorite drum shop. The sticks are nice because they are a little longer than your average 5a. Plus Buddy used a thin tip. Fat bottom with a thin tip. It has both POWER and Butterfly touch when you dance around the cymbal bell tops. Nice sticks..

[@dlc630]

I was distracted by the pad, also. I had one of those, back in the day. The rubber pad must be hard as a brick by now. I've always switched between natural and traditional grip as needed. I've been using a Real Feel pad for a long time, so switching between grips calls for a flat surface, not an angled surface like his pad.

[@aussiefarmer8741]

Lucky for me that's how I hold the stick. However I have always been unsure of the better playing grip spot along the stick. Ive been closer to the end. I think I'll take your advice and head towards the middle more. I'm 60 y/o BTW Thanks, great vid.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

It's how Buddy did it. Look at his videos. It stands out.

[@marcmadonna725]

Everyone must agree. Buddy had the best left hand of any drummer like ever!!!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes. And you will see many guys demonstrate speed technique, but the musical quality of those examples fall shot of Buddy's taste. He had amazing taste as well.

[@johnbock1896]

He could have played with just his left hand and still smoked 90%of anyone playing today.

[@johnbock1896]

It's harnessing/ controlling the sticks natural centrifugal force/ I think one doesn't move the stick per se as much as one moves ones hand,sets the stick in motion and then guides the stick with hand and finger manipulations simply surfing it if you will ( In my humble opinion)

[@rhnstjegilrhkscvn1djhrj969]

very good video, I've always held the stick that way, (on purpose or by accident) I cringe every time I see someone hold the stick at the end thinking all the weight you have to lift to move that stick. think of your fingers as the fulcrum. easy to move the see saw if the fulcrum is in the middle

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes, but to be totally honest, when I want power, that stick starts moving back. It's like a bad golf swing that won't let go..

[@larryprice6321]

Thanks

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

You got it. Check my video on the Buddy Rich style 5 stroke roll.

[@rodcoombes8711]

Buddy actually played with 7a’s and played quite lightly compared to whacking rock style, but lifted the stick for chops.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

7a? One time I got a pair of sticks from him. They were fat but LIGHT. I kicj myself for losing them. You had both power, speed and gentle techniqye with those sticks. I don't think they were 7aS. Do you have a pair?

[@danlc95]

His Cappella B.R. sticks were based on a 7A. The tips on those sticks make the most beautiful ride sound. The tips were a lot like the Regal Tip Carl Allen.

[@veter6074]

👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿🥁🥁🥁🥁

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Thank you. Keep the beat going!

[@donaldrobert2177]

Your no buddy rich. Your pretty good. But, there will never be another buddy rich. NEVER! And he only had a single kick base! And still perfectly fluid. What I would give to see him today with today's technology. But, hey man very good video. I never noticed using the two fingers like you demonstrated. Thanks for the info!

[@bbjazzmanjazzman7721]

I have discovered that a majority of those Studying every Piece of film and tape now being posted on every possible media..were not aware of the fact that Buddy Rich's hands grew to be very large mitts..if you look carefully at his Black and White footage to the end part of His career and color footage, you can clearly see how puffed or swollen his hands were.. but I would have to say THIS.. even as Buddy gained weight, his proficiency and mastery sticking execution only improved. Generally for most lifetime drummers, keeping up that kind of pace usually slows or they change or just quit altogether at 50 yrs old, but Buddy just kept on pushing himself, even after several serious heart attacks and a major surgery. I'm pushing 60 but I feel like my fountain of youth is playing the drums or actually just about anything percussive I can cut a groove on.. That's all I got ..drum on..

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Actually playing the drums will help keep your brain healthy. Keep the grove going!

[@brianchisnell1548]

I'm 63 and can smoke the wife beater shirt wearing, tatoo bearing, match grip, arm swing'n dudes that rely on volume and a double pedal. Haha. I was a rudimental champ. back in the day. Reads music, plays all styles. The hands never leave you. Ka Bahm!

[@leftypick4854]

You better pay attention to that left hand you guys.

[@bobbycottonwood000]

Thanks for posting this important and informed video. I must say, you must have had a very lazy teacher coming up, or you weren't paying very close attention. But I really don't see how that's possible. Because, in 1964, at 14, my 1st (& most important) teacher was the great Jack Burger. Jack was a regular sub for Shelley Mann in Hollywood in those days who would drive around the streets of Hollywood with his drums in the trunk waiting for a call for a recording session which he'd do 3 or 4 times a week. In between he'd pick up drum students. I was one of the lucky ones. But in those days, the matched grip wasn't yet a "thing." It was only used by "lazy" drummers who didn't have the patience or discipline to learn the "right" way (😂). And Jack wouldn't even take on a student who used the matched grip. As a teacher he prohibited it. So, you may have missed a couple of key points, which I drill into all my students. 1st the balance. You got it right from Buddy as you point out in your video. By holding the stick higher up towards the butt you make the stick top heavy towards the tip & lose the balance critical for speed, accuracy & endurance. 2nd, your 1st finger is a counter weight that rests on the stick to maximize the bounce. By adding the 2nd finger, too much weight is added inhibiting the bounce. Finally, fingers 3 & 4 are placed under the stick straight, not bent, against the palm. Think of it as a table upon which the stick rests in the center behind the digit. By bending the top digit the stick slides off the table and you lose a significant amount of stick control. These are 3 of the 4 main principles of using the Trad. Grip (the 1st being the grip itself between the thumb & 1st finger) Jack drilled into me so I could never forget. All of these principles are clearly demonstrated by Buddy, Louie Bellson, Joe Morello, Jim Chapin, all of whom were friends (& some rivals) with Buddy and all gleaned alot of technique, as you referred to the motion of your hand, from Sandy Moeller, whom I recommend you look up if you're not already familiar with him & want to learn more. Happy trails & keep posting those great videos.

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

everything! Thank you for the comments. I must look at 3 and 4 being flat. I will study what I'm doing and get back to you. Thanks!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Tried it. I will call ring finger and pinky 4 and 5. Making them more flat against the palm makes the downstroke hit even stronger. To be honest, I'm not used to it. Its like a subtle change with a golf swing grip. But the power is increased. Ihave a tendency to let 4 and 5 raise from the palm. I will keep working on this. Thanks!

[@bobbycottonwood000]

@@mrjohnstgeorge Yes. The key is not to bend 4 & 5 at the top digit. It's only natural that those fingers will raise slightly off the palm while playing as I have observed with most players. The success in using this grip depends on locking the stick firmly between the thumb & forefinger so it doesn't slip while playing. That's the greatest challenge. Time will take care of that.

[@Asa_Morris]

always noticed Buddy choked way up on the stick. Looks pretty cool if you ask me, and the physics work out too! Hahaha

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes, his command of 'rebound' and 'gravity' was amazing.

[@DZNTZ]

His technical proficiency was really something. I’m more moved by Morello, Blakey, Williams, et al though. Those guys always feel more musical to me, whereas Buddy seemed to be more about the physical act of playing… it’s hard to articulate, but hopefully someone gets what I mean. And let’s be honest, he was an a$&h@le. He had none of the bonhomie and humility that so many of the jazz greats did and do. I like to be able to admire the drummers I try to emulate - Buddy fails in that regard. Give me a Peter Erskine every time - kind, gentle human beings who share their gift and do it with grace.

[@benjamingaray5660]

This is verbatim what i feel. Buddy is great to study for technique but I’ve just never really enjoyed listening to him play like i enjoy the others. These days I’m more moved by Philly Joe’s vocabulary and playing. He had one of the greatest feel to his playing I think. Peter is incredible too. Love seeing him top everyone in the buddy rich tribute short by just playing a ride cymbal pattern. He has great feeling too and I agree is a true jazz great.

[@brianchisnell1548]

I saw Buddy's band live many times and I can tell you that it was the most explosive show I ever saw. People dancing at Louie's shows but jaw dropping power from Buddy's band. Never dancing. Buddy was a kind, giving human being. Some of his attitude was schtick.

[@johnbock1896]

Buddy schtick was often pure athleticism, the showmanship of his vaudeville background was a great part of his gestalt. He played full on to impress, it is a way of presentation. More power than musical sometimes, but he was hands down the best. I love Elvin, but they are opposite sides of the same coin . Elvin could never ( as evidenced by his playing) play those long rudimental phrases with perfect mathematical precision, rhythmically speaking

[@mancuniancandidatem]

When comparing Buddy with Tony, Elvin, Max, Art or any of the other famous 20th century drummers I think it is important to take into account a historical perspective. Those drummers played completely different styles of music. Buddy's musical excellence was about driving a big band. He was a big band swing player. Not BeBop, Hard Bop or Cool Jazz. Particularly, Tony and Elvin are a completely different generation. Buddy was already a working drummer as a child in the late 1920s and by 1936 was playing swing in big bands pre WW2. It's like comparing Ronald James Brunner or Chris Daddy Dave with Simon Phillips. Completely different generation of musicians. People focus on Buddy's solos and personality but nobody could power a big band the way he did. His dynamics and touch were second to none and his musical memory for complicated arrangements was miraculous. His time faultless, unapologetic and always swinging. His brush playing was breathtaking. With his soloing, even though Buddy didn't really utilise the toms melodically, his syncopation and accents on were completely melodic and musical. Art was the closest in age to Buddy but he was more of a hard bop/be bop drummer. The Jazz Messengers were not a full on Big Band. Art did try doing a big band in the late 40s but couldn't sustain it financially. I love all of the drummers that people seem to insist on comparing to Buddy, but without him and his historical significance in the lineage of famous working/recording drummers , those other drummers (and just about every drummer today) would have played (or play) completely differently. Buddy Rich's significance can not be overstated.

[@JimHill-ec5ml]

​@mancuniancandidatem well said. Pointless for anyone trying to put Buddy Rich down. He was a brilliant one off genius and a superb musician . He influenced practically all the famous drummers who came later and they respected him whatever about about his personality.

[@muhaimimzaifin2912]

I think tony mccarol oasis play "see the sun" like this

[@pcfxr4u]

It looks like his thumb was very long (naturally) allowing him to use it like a lever on the stick. Video is pretty clear. Thoughts?

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes. But as I pointed out after viewing a picture of buddy. Push the stick above the ring finger knuckle. That allows the index finger (The Bird Finger) to have additional interaction with the stick. On the video you sent me, you can see his index finger interacting with the stick, along with his ring finger. No Back and Forth! The evidence is right there. Gravity, tighter grip, bounce and some control with those two fingers to help it along. It's a beautiful piece of art he created along with the musicality of it.

[@U2WB]

Same was true for Joe Morello. I studied with him, would watch him do left-handed triplets in rapid-fire from 1 foot away (we sat side by at the practice pads). He had an extraordinarily long thumb; it stuck way out above the stick. Made me realize that much of my limitation has to do with physical anatomy. I don’t know about Buddy’s thumb, but I have noticed that a lot of his speed seemed to come from the thumb in almost like a finger-snap motion. I’ve tried but cannot duplicate it.

[@johnbock1896]

@@U2WB No disrespect , but Morello was a clown compared to Buddy! I could have smoked Morello any day of the week! Morello=the most overrated 🥁in history! His solo on Take 5=the most boring uninspired repetition of short five beat phrases ever played over a 5/4 groove I have ever heard! 5/4 is a meter that swings like hell and he is playing little ideas?!I wish I could have been there to do it with swing, verve and vigor .... And IDEAS! Sorry, Morello? NOrello !

[@U2WB]

@@johnbock1896 you “could smoke Morello” ? No disrespect, but I think it’s pretty unkind to say something like that about a person who’s no longer around to say “hold my beer.”

[@stevedriscoll2539]

Cool video. I've watched a lot of Buddy videos, but I can't see anything it's so damn fast. I have wondered if he was flipping the stick back up with his ring finger to get that phenomenal speed. I have watched a lot of modern drummers that are great technicians, but to me, nobody played with the speed and dynamics of Buddy. To me, the things he did with his left hand on the snare (and whatever you call that where his left hand is playing the underside of the bottom hi-hat) is inhuman. The only other guy I would compare to him is Marvyn "Smitty" Smith. Great video, you play well!

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Thank you sir. Interesting question about the ring finger of Buddy Rich. Does he push with it? All I know, at this point, is by placing the stick behind the knuckle, it keeps the stick IN PLACE. It doesn't wag out of control. I think the muscle in the thumb is the main driver.. yes, there is some rebound technique with the ring and index finger. But again I am an 'Average Bag of Doughnuts' trying to understand perfection..

[@stevedriscoll2539]

@@mrjohnstgeorge thanks for the reply John

[@squamishfish]

I have always wondered if Buddy ever really practiced the grip or was he just naturally gifted

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

He was natural, but he did observe others of the day. That ring finger knuckle had to be observed or taught or corrected.

[@bornr2797]

An what does all this mean on a drum set?

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Not much in the end.

[@luigilauto7481]

Immensamente super speciale.Io sono un semplice batterista italiano....🎼🎵🎶😘👍💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Graci

[@chriswardle9698]

Wow….um…well I’m still learning basics but…that’s interesting, I foresee me trying traditional more with my band. 🤔☝️

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

All the best to you

[@tedhansen3846]

I'll try

[@user-ud8nm5hq6g]

I see the can of Dioxin, so looks like you audiophile too...thanks

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Yes. I'm a voice artist and audio producer for radio and tv. Drums and music figure in my jingle production work.

[@fredread9216]

If you want to study someone very interesting look up EL Esipario Siberiano. The guys talent is insane. And check out some of the grips and techniques that he uses. Buddy amazing too. Although I learned with the unmatched traditional grip, I later switched. Way playing Timpani in an orchestra and ended up preferring the matched grip. I am not playing on heavily tilted drums as in marching. Why play unmatched? It’s just a style that was not always “traditional”

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

Do what is best for you and your band. The purpose of this video was to share a moment of someone meeting Buddy and hearing out of his own mouth a personal secret. 'Let me show you what I do'.. I would love to hear him talk and explain his thinking about his approach on various charts. One on one. My video here was about Ken Loomer telling me a technique Buddy showed him on his drums. It's the closest I ever got to Buddy Rich.

[@fredread9216]

@@mrjohnstgeorge OK. Very interesting. Thanks.

[@kingmajin]

it always seemed to me that buddy was for sure taking advantage of the rebound. you can tell that he's holding the stick like you are here, but when he goes fast; you'll notice the stick seems to almost bounce in his hand without him making enough big, noticeable motions.i watched a video today where you could clearly see his middle finger doing some sort of action

[@johnbock1896]

If one is not surfing the rebound, one isn't really playing with rudimental technical mastery.Its ALL about the rebound/ no harnessing of the rebound=no REAL playing

[@carlreynolds1111]

Sounds like Howard stern like it

[@mrjohnstgeorge]

I sound like Howard Stern? Or:" Howard Stern would like this"? Does Howard play drums?