BUICK 455 vs THE WORLD

[@halldorra]

You need to add the Olds and the Pontiac 455 Torque numbers into your data ;-)

[@cannonroberts5129]

Yes please Richard!!

[@stefantroedsson5483]

i wish the same

[@jeffjarquin5600]

Truth!

[@richardholdener1727]

have not run those yet

[@steveelco114]

@@richardholdener1727 YET 👍

[@ericmillrd6768]

The 72-87 460's run a 8° advanced timing chain running a 68-71 running chain makes a huge difference

[@NobilityandLoyalty]

72-87's are 4 degrees retarded at the camshaft 8 degrees at the crank. Yep the 68-71 timing chain / gear ⚙️ improves torque dramatically

[@michaelangelo8001]

Also, in regards to your musings on the 440 cam: Some truck engines have a relatively hot cam installed from the factory. I worked on school buses for a while. The Chevrolet buses had 350s with an Allison behind them. Although all the other brands had more displacement, and were physically larger, the Chevrolets were significantly faster. The little engines would give you the impression that they wanted to tear their selves out of the frame, and just leave the bus behind. My brother slung a rod in his 350 72 MC, and all we had on hand to replace it was an old 283. I did a quickie rebuild on the 283, and put a used cam and lifters out of one of those school bus engines in it. It was really peppy, and he loved it. Said it felt significantly stronger than the old 350.

[@michaelangelo8001]

@Jeff Kopis Not really. It's called frugality. That wasn't the first or last time I've swapped cams around. If you are buying a new cam every time you build an engine, no wonder you're poor...

[@michaelangelo8001]

@Jeff Kopis I still have one of those bus engines here. It blew the head gasket between a couple of cylinders, and the driver kept driving it long enough to cut a gouge in the surface of the block, so they sold it to me for the core price. If I ever get around to pulling it down, I'm going to take the number from that cam, and see if I can find the specifications in a GM parts catalog. They are excellent street cams, if you aren't looking for anything very radical.

[@Allianceoffroad]

Add the Caddy 472/500 in the mix

[@richardholdener1727]

I will

[@johnlincicum6390]

@@richardholdener1727 Buick 455 is my favorite. I've had 4.

[@timsharpe3498]

The big block Cadillac did great in its high compression heyday but they seemed to suffer the most from the low compression era. I’m a firm believer that Pontiac engineers did the best job of making low compression smog era power. Those SD and HO 455s were very impressive considering the constraints.

[@timsharpe3498]

The only BBC I ever owned was a Gen 6 and it was great. Funny thing. When I bought the 34 foot RV it came in I drove it 120 miles home with no issues. The throttle response was weak but I just assumed that it had stale fuel from sitting for 3 years. The next time I drove it the poor thing stalled a few times and I was lucky to make it back to the storage lot. I checked the fuel pressure and it was zero. After cycling the key about five times it creeped up to 5 pounds. I ordered a new Delco pump for about $40 and the pressure shot up to 54 psi. The old pump still worked (very loudly) but the plastic hose was cracked nearly in two. According to the manuals that thing isn’t supposed to even idle with less than 30 pounds of pressure and mine somehow made 120 miles with 5 psi.

[@brianbenson5769]

Hi, Rich.... That 2nd Ford 460 is a dog! Having owned a 74 era mill it was a retarded cam factory boat anchor. A buddy, Bill Ptak is our local Ford nut. His street mill runs 9.5 squuze, 70 429 CJ heads, hydraulic roller bumpstik and very unique O'Brien truckers pipes. HE SAYS about 525 horse pressure & around 600 twist. The cam is a comp dual energy. To make horse and/or twist IS not cheap. In his mho, the Ford needs different work than EITHER the GM'S or Mopar. It does, however, reward an astute builder with way over the crowd power. God bless. BRIAN.

[@chucksgarage7165]

We had a 1970 Buick wagon with a 455 when I was a kid. It was like a freight train. It probably had highway gears in it....if you had a long straight road...LOOK OUT! My older sister routinely ran that thing up to about 110 mph or so.

[@stevecoxiscool]

My parents 1973 455 Pontiac Safari station wagon with clam shell back tail gate. I routinely ran it up to 100. Dad would float the valves for fun. I gaped a lot of kids back in 1980, until the "oil light cam on". Dad replaced the 455 locked up block with a 400. Never the same.

[@frankieford7668]

I was out looking for some street Race Action...35 or 40 years ago....i get caught at a light with an Olds Vista Cruiser Wagon...1970 Vintage....Well this wagon just cleaned My Clock...i couldn't stay with him...more than once he busted my Ass...i never forgot that Ass woopen i got that night..Back when power was a Luxury...😆

[@scrappy7571]

My parents had a '72 deuce & a quarter. I buried the speedo @120 for 10 miles when I was 15. That was 2 years before the legal driving age here. Thank god I did not kill or hurt anyone. My friends thought it was cool, today I'm still afraid to tell my folks about it. That land barge was large and in charge when the air cleaner lid was flipped.

[@stevecoxiscool]

@@frankieford7668 Olds 455's could be monsters as well.

[@frankieford7668]

@@stevecoxiscool ...That was a Beautiful Car..Medium Metalic blue with wood grain...glass panels in the Roof....Fast as Heck...lol I would love to own one today...

[@mikemartinez7433]

Interesting and cool is getting out of the shop and taking a Stage 1 out for a ride, on a wide open stretch of road.

[@brocluno01]

The other question that comes to mind is how much weight? Assuming you can get similar aluminum intakes (?), how much does the total package weigh. My guess is that the Buick might be slightly lighter than some others ... They were exploring thin walled castings earlier than most MFG's.

[@ZackNakazora1]

I think this is some of the best KZbin engine content out there right now. Esp when he branches out to other engines. I wanna see the "almost big block" engine comparison. 383 mopar vs 390 fe Ford vs 396! You know the almost 400 cubers

[@patrickstowman3402]

I'd love to see that too. I've always been interested in the 'smaller big blocks'. Seems to me they make for a better package for a lot of street cars that are after a little less weight and more revs than you'd get in the full capacity motors. I wonder if it isn't more cost effective to work up a mildly modded small big block than to go the stroker route on a small block as well.

[@adampatterson707]

Now you have opened a can of worms, you'll have to find a 455 Oldsmobile and a 455 Pontiac. I think the 500 Caddy will be the king of them all, but it does have a displacement advantage. Thanks again for your hard work and great videos.

[@brocluno01]

Good episode. Since I'm an old guy and was fooling around on the street when this stuff was new, I can say that you did not call out a Buick in light(er) body combo. Big 4-door sedan sure, they were tanks and the weight held them back. But in a Skylark, nope. On the street you'd get your butt handed to you. Given tire limitations and unknown traction the Buick could moderate the throttle easily and pull for all it was worth. All the other stuff was screaming, and with RPM comes moderation issues. So the "cool" Buick guy would just run away and hide. And the frenetic smaller V8 guy would be frustrated and disappointed. On a prep'd track with concentration - it's a different thing ... 😁

[@johna2193]

Now you have to do a Pontiac and Olds 455 to get the full picture.

[@samrotheray5805]

The other thing that needs to be put in comparison with the Buick is the weight of it. Its lighter than the others. Awesome video.

[@WesternReloader]

Ford 460, in my opinion, is a good platform to rev. When I build mine, I’m keeping stock stroke, boring out as far as it’ll take, solid roller.

[@jimmy_olds]

Richard, wed also love to see a 455 Olds and Pontiac in the low speed torque mix!

[@richardholdener1727]

That would be cool! I have not run stock versions of those yet

[@jdtv...9134]

I found a Cortez motorhome it's got a 455 Buick motor in it. It's sitting in the woods behind this business rotting away. Late 60s early 70s casting I have to go back and take pictures make sure. I would love to do some work to that thing if I could get my hands on it. I had a 78 Formula Firebird with a 455 and it was fun to drive. Love the channel I wish I could be there with you doing this stuff

[@michaelangelo8001]

I don't think the carburetor size is an issue with this stock setup, but by using that open adapter, you will likely have affected the low rpm torque significantly.

[@claytonsteffensen4469]

Looking at the bore and strokes of the 460 (4.36" x 3.85") and 455 Buick (4.3125" x 3.900") they are pretty close to the same. BBC (4.25" x 4.0") slightly longer stroke and smaller bore. It would be nice to see the 455 pontiac (4.152" x 4.21") and Olds 455 (4.126" x 4.25") in the mix. Pontiac and olds being the "long strokes". Why would the buick be the torque monster compared to the pont or olds with longer strokes? Head flow? if all the engine had heads with the same air flow number then what would happen?

[@richardholdener1727]

the power output or torque has less to do with bore and stroke and more to do with cam, heads and intake

[@Bricklinsv1970]

Looking at those graphs the 455 did really good.

[@someguy2741]

There is no airgap intake for the buick. You can only get the Edelbrock RPM. You can try the TA performance intake if you want to go better than the RPM.

[@rwandersonut]

The Less HP/more Torque from the buick has to do with the angle of the pistons in the V of the V8. Buick, Pontiac, Olds were all 90 degree V's. The Chevy is a 60 degree V. This applies the power to a larger duration angle on the crank vs. the narrower V engines. Think of a boxer type engine that are opposed, and apply power to the full rotation of the crank. This simple degree angle creates a different type of power. with all things being the same. None of these engines were fresh off of the factory line so many variables come into play but as a general rule, the 90 degree V8 will produce more torque sooner and less overall horsepower later. I hope this makes sense.

[@AreaThirteenThirteen]

Richard has the best job ever because most people dread going to work and find excuses to miss or go home early but this job would have people volunteering to stay late and away from home as long as possible!

[@jasonfletcher1474]

What about a comparison or "Battle " of the 455's? I'm very curious to see that.

[@anthony8362]

I read where GM Cathedral ports were taken from the Buick V8

[@bocajgames3687]

Hey Richard, quick question is there a big power difference from the 460s when it comes to fuel injected vs carbureted models?

[@ttx888]

Great Video, but I missed the Olds 455 and Pontiac 455

[@richardholdener1727]

have not run those in stock form

[@ttx888]

@@richardholdener1727 Thanks for the answer. Have a great Weekend.

[@melodigrand]

The Buick 455 destroys the complete falsehood that long stroke provides more torque. The 1970 published stock numbers on the Buick 455 show slightly more torque than any of the other 454-455 motors. If a longer stroke provided "free torque" as you often hear then none of the other manufacturers were able to figure out how to capture this. It's like this, sure the longer crank throw provides more leverage and increases the twisting force, however the smaller piston surface area of the longer stroke engines reduces the force applied to the crank. The result is a push. An engine with a 10% greater stroke will have a piston surface area 10% less.

[@stephenfazekas1568]

They made many different 460s some came with a whopping 7.7 to 1 compression ratio. So all depends which one you got.

[@doylethomason6015]

I have that exact 460 in my crown vic , I'm expecting 200hp 300ft lbs . 1983 460 c6 bone stock , hei , 750 holley , boss 429 timing set . If it makes the power your dyno run made I'll be happy as all get out .

[@doylethomason6015]

2 inch spacer

[@ericgalloway461]

Great series! Interesting info on these other guys we all hear the stories of Loch Ness monster lurking on the street type hype.

[@53slapnuts]

the roller cam profile even at the same lift and duration gets the valve head out of the way quicker and stays wider open longer you probably know what im saying ? more round lobe on the roller vs v shaped on the flat tappet

[@chevyblue10]

The only thing that could keep up with the stage one 455 is the A12 69 1/2 Roadrunner/Superbee. Both would run mid 12s straight out of the box. Big difference is, the 440 6 pack A12 was a stripped down, no frills (no ps, no pb, no ac) 4 speed car. The stage one would do it in comfort, (automatic tranny, ac, pb, ps, etc), plus Buick quality. I love Mopars, I'm a MOPAR man. The only thing I like better than a MOPAR is a Buick GS 455.

[@thereluctantgearhead4544]

There are single 4-barrel 455 Buick based engines making 850+hp NA. They do have a lot of potential.

[@Peter-V_00]

I have been looking for a 455 Buick to put in place of my worn out 1988 Ford 469 EFI truck engine, I want the grunt like a diesel without the expense of a diesel, somehow rebuilding the original 460 seems like a waste of time and money since it's been weak power wise since it was new. (Yes I'm the original owner). There was a reason back in the early 60's GMC would let you order a commercial truck with a Buick engine.

[@kurtbredow780]

68 Oldsmobile 455, made 500 ft of torque, even with a 2 barrel carb

[@garylopez3964]

What’s the difference between the 455 olds and the 455 Buick ?

[@edwardwood3622]

The Ford and Chevy had I believe lower compression than the Buick and the Ford had a pancake intake that would really kill power. The 440 had a decent looking stock intake and seems like it had some kind of cam to make power like it did. P.S. 750 cfm is way more than enough for 350 hp.

[@razorrockman1286]

Oh and to be clear, I've owned every big block and most small block American engine, I had a 74 Lincoln MKV coupe with a balanced and blueprinted 460 but otherwise bone stock, and it was a 5.0 mustang killer😂😂😂 you should have seen the looks on the young street racers when my big old white luxury coupe launched past them like they were in park it was truly hilarious! On a side note I never could understand Ford's use of such a restrictive induction on this setup, 500 cfm carb and lowrise dual plane it must have been because of hood clearance, I always wondered what a big Holley and a nice Offy portosonic intake would have yielded maybe a nice lumpity cam and good exhaust since it was quite restrictive . the only thing I can think of is low speed velocity for the small carb and such, just a theory

[@idletime]

Afternoon Richard 😎 I'm sure that it's already been mentioned but just in case it hasn't, as far as an intake manifold for the Buick 455 goes I suggest the Poston s-divider from Poston Enterprises 😎

[@jeffreygardner8737]

Look up the carcraft shoot out in the early 90s the Buick kicked everyone's ass

[@lilbill6089]

310HP is a bit low. Something is restricting the top end. Banged up headers and carb adapter come to mind. Also, 73 and up Buicks had AIR passages in the intake and heads. This made the intake manifolds lousy on the top end. With a good dual plane and good headers (not banged up ones) it should get over 350HP without sacrificing low end. With the AIR passages on those heads you will need to make sure the new intake manifold covers the center two passages (manifolds for early engines only don't) or tap and plug the passages to avoid a big exhaust leak there. I agree on the 460. It's down everywhere. Should be better.

[@richardholdener1727]

banged up header does nothingto power

[@johnhg3994]

My 464ci stage 2 buick runs an 850 quickfuel... 750 is plenty for that motor. Try the SPX intake from TA performance for the Buick

[@billkerksiek208]

I guess the fairest comparison would be a MK IV BBC, but they're getting kinda hard to find.

[@charlesparr3296]

Hey Richard, great engines here for sure, but you left one out. 1970 Cadillac 500 cubic inches. 400 hp and 550 lb ft of torque.

[@richardvanmarter8780]

The king of torque is the olds 455, the pontiac 455 is good also, torque potential is related to stroke

[@richardholdener1727]

torque potential is related to displacement

[@austintyler7991]

Great job Richard. How u like to try out a tall deck 1966, 366ci bbc ? Or Stroked 97 460/542 fi ? Let me know. South Missouri

[@richardholdener1727]

the 366 truck motors

[@austintyler7991]

@@richardholdener1727yes 66 fire truck 366. How much torque from 396 sbc ? Thanks.

[@brandonhumphries3377]

that must have been a mid 80's Ford 460. Even a 70's Ford 460 makes more base power than that

[@MrBlackbutang]

?

[@brandonhumphries3377]

@@MrBlackbutang ??

[@chupacabra5205]

How is the Buick 455 coming with the cylinder head swap you mentioned awhile ago?

[@dannycarwile1330]

I'd like to see a 68-70 Pontiac 455

[@tomcherry7029]

I like to see a 455 Pontiac from 68 or 69 but they didnt make them so a 428 HO with 390hp will have to do.

[@ericschmelzer6243]

The only "air gap" style manifold available for the buick is a TA Performance SPX. Edelbrock doesn't make anything air gap for the buck.

[@jeffpittman8725]

Cadillac 500?

[@michaelangelo8001]

Thank you for saying Cadillac, instead of "caddy".

[@richardholdener1727]

the caddy should make most

[@shyecjj]

My 496 8.1 vortec does over 540 ft lbs torque with just a tune. Still love Buicks though.

[@markdubois4882]

Bring on the 500 Caddy..

[@MrAlexiasjones]

Olds 455..

[@lancewilliams3467]

I would like to see the 496 (8.1Liter) Chevy truck motor in this comparison

[@roknroy1]

great video!

[@LSX427]

PLease Please Please test the 8.1 vortec. I owned one in an 02 Silverado and regret every day for trading it in on my late model GMC with the 6.0. I even installed a cam, c.a.i. and headers with dual 3" exhaust on the late model GMC L96 engine.....Still does not hold a candle to the pulling power of the old 8.1 and honestly the gas mileage is nearly the same. I may even swap an 8.1 into my GMC

[@Wreckedekcoupe]

Can't wait to see the turbo on it!

[@lukassonntag3956]

I'd like to see one of these low speed torque monsters with the raising boost curve from a centrifugal supercharger

[@Vuhjayjay68]

Have you made any videos on break in period Should it be done or not

[@MrBlackbutang]

Gs club of America is a good source for 455 information or gsca

[@andy347495]

That was a great test. I could watch the factory stuff all day, especially when comparing different manufacturers. Ive seen some airflow test with the 454 vortec heads and peanut port heads and their flow numbers were almost identical at .500 lift the vortec head exhaust ended up having less flow than the peanut port head. The opening is bigger, but it looks like the runner chokes down as it gets closer to the valve. So im kinda curious to where the advantage of the vortec is over the gen 5 motor. I know There is over a point of compression difference. Is that enough by itself? I was kinda surprised on carb cfm when i had my 496 dynoed. It has a pretty small cam and peanut port heads. It had 550tq and 435hp, but pulled 530cfm on the dyno with a 750 holley.

[@Boss-mo3zf]

Would also liketo know if it's just the compression that makes the difference

[@mrmiscast]

Richard deserves a lot of credit for digging up, literally in some cases, these engines and doing these tests. It's somewhat anecdotal information since there are so many variables like compression, cam timing, intake manifold design, etc. However, it's good information and I appreciate all the effort. Can you imagine what fun he would have if his budget included rebuilding all these engines to say 1970, high compression specs? He could add the 455 Pontiac, 455 Olds, a 500 Caddy, and many more. The possible combinations are endless. From the torque vs horsepower and rpm question, there are multiple truck motors which he'll never find or maybe have a hoist big enough to put them on the dyno like the 534 Ford, and International 549. At some point, Westech would have to come up with a weight limit for the dyno. And Richard would have to add the variable of rotating assembly inertia vs torque production. No doubt, Richard does a great job, thanks, Richard.

[@LucoreAuto]

We are actually posting very similar to this soon, 455 Pontiac VS 454 Chevy VS 451 Mopar all very similarly built and all on the same engine dyno. Pretty interesting comparisons, just need to finish editing all the video :)

[@mrmiscast]

@@LucoreAuto You now have a new subscriber.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@mrmiscast thanks! We love new subscribers, hope you find something you like! :)

[@C0BB.003]

Subscribed. Cant wait to see the video

[@allenl9031]

Or 472 Cadillac.

[@maker-matt]

Where does a Poncho 455 fit in that mix?---- And I still want to see the Caddy

[@jimmy_olds]

I imagine the Caddy is at the machine shop.... and if the machine shops in Cali are like the ones in Ohio, we may see it in 2021! Lol

[@SweatyFatGuy]

Which one? The #64 headed 70 455, the HO from 71/72, the 71-74 D port low compression engines, the 75/76 big car 455 with 7:1 and a tiny cam, or the SD from 73/74?

[@badass6.0powerstroke10]

Buick 455 Stage 1, Top of the Heap 455,s Then between the Pontiac 455 and the Olds 455 i don't have much experience with those. Buick Stage 1 "The Hemi Killer" The Only 455 with that name.

[@maker-matt]

@@SweatyFatGuy The SD of course! (If he can find one) The standard block was prone to cracking. My favorite T/A - 1973 white w/ blue stripes and 455 SD on the shaker.

[@maker-matt]

@@jimmy_olds Probably true!. Just want to see the numbers it lays down. We had a 70 Caddy coupe de Ville convertible with a 472 that could roast the tires (yes 12 bolt posi) through 2nd till almost 90. Ask me how I know

[@kevincantrell5946]

The shootout I want to see is a 455 Buick vs 455 Pontiac vs 455 Olds!

[@bigcountry9210]

Olds will kill it on the low end.

[@Joe11Blue]

Olds will just run away off the line. There's no comparison for the GM blocks. It's Olds 455 or stroked 460.

[@LucoreAuto]

Might want to check out our recent videos, we actually did just that ;)

[@greasemonkey258]

The Buick has the biggest bore of the three, pontiac has the most square bore to stroke and Oldsmobile has the smallest bore of the three.

[@housepumpinpc3983]

Buick was the lightest.

[@wtdonovan]

Buick guys... remember when the 430 heads on a 455 were the secret sauce? 430 big port high compression 455! (big thanks to Richard for his hardcore testing!)

[@wtdonovan]

@Jeff Kopis 20yrs ago I got a low mile Regal to swap a 455 in. Picked up a set of these 430 heads, really did have larger intake port. Got a wrecked 455 Lesabre and pulled the engine. Then got T boned in the Regal. Tried to get another and sold the parts instead. I wonder if anyone has a set to send to Westech :)

[@wtdonovan]

@Jeff Kopis Can't agree more!

[@douglorimer5985]

A nail head on a later 455????

[@wtdonovan]

@@douglorimer5985 No, not in this case. Check out the BBB section of the wiki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine

[@MrBlackbutang]

@@wtdonovan Wikipedia is not a reliable source as anyone can edit description.

[@pauldulworth2768]

Again, Richard is answering a lot of questions that I wanted the answers to. Thanks.

[@BelushiSpeedBall]

He’s the best honestly. I’m hooked on his videos and he’s always so positive

[@pauldulworth2768]

Belushi Speed Ball, he also makes you feel like, “Hey, I can do that.” Awesome.

[@scottbrown3674]

Buick 455 won the hp big block shoot out about 12 years ago in car craft mag. Ta cylinder heads. Also they are the lightest big block.

[@alanhardman2447]

Scott Brown - Those were ALL modded motors, too. Used to work on a GSX for a friend and it was really quite interesting what did and didn't work with the big Buick. He always used to brag about the factory torque ratings - 510 ft-lb! Quite a bit of torque there. And the Cadillac 500 produced 550ft-lb! Couldn't talk him into swapping a 500 Caddy into his Buick... Never could figure out why!

[@badass6.0powerstroke10]

Yes the 455 Buick Block is light, thin wall casting. But can it take alot of Power ? I'm a big FORD Guy, ran Clevelands for years, about 10 Years Ago swapped a 521 Stroked 460 into my 86 Mustang, Wow insane Low End Torque ! I Love the Clevelands but the Torque of a 429-460 Ford is hard to beat, along with a Very Strong Bottom End, didn't even have to clearance anything for my 4.30" Stroke Scat Crank. 460 Fords have been known to make well over 1000 hp N/A with the Stock Block. Good Heads, Nice Solid Roller, and a Good Forged Rotating Assy. Love my Fords, but the Buick 455 Engines are my Favorite GM Engine. Incredible Torque Monsters. Just wish they had a Beefier Block.

[@markbuchanan3694]

@@alanhardman2447 because he didn't want to ruin his Buick

[@markbuchanan3694]

@@badass6.0powerstroke10 they aren't bad if you take your time to assemble them right

[@markbuchanan3694]

@S Gray there are several guys running 800 to 900 hundred hp 455s,still using factory cast iron blocks, takes work and thinking, but it is being done. Check out a past time episodewith a white Buick Skylark ,had plenty power to run high 8s with a cast iron block. Takes a bit of thinking , but can be done

[@therichestmaninbabylon3361]

Finally!! you finally did it for us Buick guys!

[@halldorra]

The Buick was also relativily light, only a few pound heavier than a smallblock Chevy

[@jonellwanger7258]

Halldór Ragnarsson right around 25lbs. Big block power. Small block weight

[@danieldimitri6133]

I thought that was the oldsmobile but I could be wrong. Memory is a bit rusty.

[@kyleolin3566]

Aluminum heads and intake make it lighter than a sbc. It is my understanding that the Buick 455 is what the modern LS was based off of. Not sure if that is true or not.

[@geoffmooregm]

It was light but it was a weak block. It did not have strong mains and the lifter bores do not stand up to the side loads of aggressive roller cams. It was also plagued with a weak oiling system. It was fine when stock but if you want to go max effort Buick you will want an aftermarket block.

[@jonellwanger7258]

Geoff Moore yeah, ok negative Nancy,

[@BOOSTJUNKY]

fresh upload... Sleep will have to take a break. 🤣

[@dennislangston487]

I love the fact that you not only give results, but also legitimate reasons for the results and also possible ways for improvement . At 71 , my arthritis is literally a pain everywhere , but still a shade tree mechanic at heart .

[@eddyagg]

Enjoying the 292 and 455 journey! Not that there’s much left you haven’t dynoed, but playing with motors you haven’t dealt with before sure is fun to see 👍

[@Arthagnou]

Viper V10, Rover/Buick SOHC, Bently/Rolls Royce V8, Ford V10, the New Ford Godzilla,

[@dvjracing5947]

All them motors suck

[@johnparrish9215]

@@dvjracing5947 The Bentley 6.75 litter Turbo engine damn sure doesn't suck. 813 ftlb of torque at 1800 rpm with over 500 horses at 5000 makes it the monster torque engine ever put in a car. You should see the block and heads, stupid strong with 20 head bolts per head. I wish I had one in my truck.

[@richardholdener1727]

new (old) is fun

[@keithtobin5369]

How about a 401 nailhead.

[@jerryadams5678]

Richard ... you are correct the 460 Ford 73,74,75, year range had retarded cam timing. It was accomplished by offsetting the key slot in the crank gear. You can replace the crank gear with an early production one or use the one listed for the police interceptor version of the 460. I had a 75 Lincoln town car and applied this modification to the engine and boy what a difference.....

[@harrywalker968]

there retarded 4-6 degrees. & have bowl pistons. decent cam, flat tops.. all you need. im sure in the pre 70.s they had 450 hp,ish..plus, they rev higher than a chev.. i have a 351c, with 302c heads, in an 82 bronco, on lpg, it hoots..std cam. the 302c is ausie. there a dog..but, should go,,they dont.. same bore, shorter stroke, probably a flat lobe cam..there gutless. 385 series,,truck engines.. last forever..

[@NobilityandLoyalty]

4 degrees retarded at the cam, 8 degrees at the crankshaft. Significant loss of power.

[@LR-my2di]

This so reminds me of the infamous Round 1 "shootout" of the 1970 GS Stage 1 vs. 1970 Hemi GTX done by Muscle Car Review magazine back in Dec. 1984. The magazine editor Donald Farr put this match-up together with two guys (Lasseter and Badie) who had written letters to the magazine's Editor's Column. Lasseter simply thanked the magazine for giving the Buick its just due in a "50 Fastest" muscle car chart that the magazine had printed from all the old road tests of the day in their Nov. 1984 issue while "Mr. Mopar" Roy Badie was pretty pissed off and thus challenged a Buick GS 455 Stage 1 to a drag race saying that GS's ran "like they were tied to a tree". Farr then contacted both guys for a "run what ya brung" duel at the Gainesville, FL drag strip to see who was right. Neither car was set up only to run the other car. Both cars were basically stock street machines of the day and merely exhibited parity with each other. The 3.42 geared GS blew doors against the 4.10 geared Hemi, and that race has become legend. Mainly because it was just two average guys involved. Lasseter drove the 130 miles to the track from Georgia while Roy Badie trailered 130 miles from Largo, FL. So, speaking of torque, that right there says a lot about Buick torque! Drive it to the track with those 3.42's and still run 12.30's against the Hemi's 13-teens. .

[@glengabruch4664]

I absolutely LOVED that test!!! I think I still have that magazine. "The sacred cows die the most gruesome deaths!" 🤣👍

[@LR-my2di]

So true! It was a CLASSIC for sure. @@glengabruch4664

[@greasyhitchball]

I remember the article. The Buick was the heavier car, short 65 horsepower, and only had 20 more ft lbs of torque. Oh, and highway gears. And it won. I've seen many Stage 1s run in the 13s and 14s. The car was clearly prepped, and the hemi ran lousy that day.

[@kenwelch198]

I remember my 455 engine having a lot of torque. I also remember 6 mpg.

[@patrickflohe7427]

The ones I had got 8-12.

[@markwallace5274]

I’ve always felt like the Buick and Pontiac 455 are twin brothers not identical twins but twins

[@mikeobrien3744]

The Ford 460 may come from the smog era of cam timing

[@duaneadkins1261]

When I was in mechanics class about 45 years ago we had a Ford 429 engine (I believe it was a 1969) that had the factory label on the valve cover and it was stamped 460 hp. The engine was for a police interceptor but the only way Ford would donate the engine was if they agreed to never put the engine in a car. We had it on a engine stand and setup so we could start it periodically. I would've loved to have seen that engine in a 67 - 68 Mustang GT.

[@mikeobrien3744]

@@duaneadkins1261 Makes me sick to think what happened to that when the school dropped shop class....or if they actually still have shop class swapped it for a fuel injected 4 cly. OBDII Toyota 1800cc rice grinder.

[@adamtrombino106]

454 gen 6 engines are great places to start even in stock form. Good heads, 9.0 to 1 compression, roller cams ( albeit mild) etc. If you think about it, that ol Buick only had 7.8 to 1 compression, the 440 was 8.2 at best, and the Ford was around 8 to 1 as well. Speaking of that 460, they had lousy stock intakes 72-86ish and badly retarded cams. 72-74 they were rated at 202-212 hp. Things went south from there.. So as tested, yours might be about average for the vintage.

[@carlbowman8733]

78 regal, 455 buick,stage 1 cam with 400 turbo. I had a ball tearing the gears out of the stock rear end. could not keep the tires planted when the four barrel opened up. good times in the late 80s

[@ryann3487]

What else did you have going on with the engine? I picked up a '75 Riviera this summer and am eager to get more power out of it once the snow goes away. Did you do anything else to yours other than the stage 1 cam?

[@Arthagnou]

Viper V10, Ford V10, AMC 401, Caddilac, Rover/Buick SOHC, Rolls Royce, Crossfire GM, Packard, Ford Y Block, Chrysler poly head, Gen 1 Hemi, Gen 2 Hemi, SOHC Ford

[@richardholdener1727]

quite a list

[@joshperry4538]

Id like to see the 427 sohc Dyno run.

[@erandy0240]

@@joshperry4538 cause those are laying around most junkyards?? I saw one sell at an auction for 50k and it wasn't even complete

[@joshperry4538]

@@erandy0240 I've seen Richard get his hands on some newer and vintage high end engines, that are not in the junkyard, and Dyno them. But yes the 427 sohc would be next to impossible to get. Lol.

[@dsmvr4]

I had a 460 in an old Ford pickup. It was rated at 230hp 390tq. I think it was actually 200hp 400+tq. Slow, but strong.

[@OldCrLvr]

In regards to the 460's output, I think that's pretty spot on. Our 96 F250's EFI 460 is supposedly 245HP/450TQ. If you factor in headers & no front accessories that seems about right. We use it exclusively for hauling hay, animals & ranch supplies. My opinion is that thing is a turd bucket even with the factory 4:11's.

[@SpecialAgentJamesAki]

Been loving these videos. Other guys forever! 👍👍

[@stevelacker358]

It’s interesting to me that the torquiest (rated) GM big block is the one with the shortest stroke (I think the Olds 455 is the longest stroke). Everyone talks about stroker engines making torque, but I would argue that it’s not the stroke, it’s just the cubic inches. In terms of bore/stroke ratio, up to a point I think favoring bore over stroke (oversquare) improves peak dynamic torque. Very loosely speaking, torque is proportional to cylinder pressure x piston surface area x crank lever arm. The catch is that piston surface area is proportional to the square of bore, but crank lever arm is only linearly proportional to stroke. Yes, there are factors of 1/2 floating around in there, plus it’s all very dynamic since cylinder pressure changes over the course of the piston stroke, as does the effective crank lever arm. But there’s a reason so many highly respected “muscle” era v8s tended to be slightly to greatly oversquare- the Chevy 283, 327, 396, 454, Ford 289/302, 427, 429/460, Mopar early Hemis, 273, 340, 383, 426 (Hemi and wedge), 440, Olds 350 (Olds 455 is an exception though), many Pontiacs, and of course the Buick 455. Bore has other nice side effects, like allowing bigger valves without shrouding. The downside is big bores tend to have poor emissions numbers, so a lot of engines have gone back toward square or under square in the last 30 years. Anyway, super interesting comparison even if there’s no way to make it perfectly “fair.” It’s fair enough!

[@shaun.h.barlow]

Most torque gm engine is a Cadillac 500 which also has the longest stroke almost 4.5inch

[@stevelacker358]

Shaun Barlow I should have specifically said “muscle car engine.” If you open it up to land yachts and trucks, then the TwinSix wins at almost 600 ft.-lb. The 500 is an interesting one, but it has a LESS stroke-biased configuration than the Olds 455. It’s almost perfectly “square” at 4.3 bore by 4.306 stroke, compared to 4.126 bore x 4.25 stroke for the Olds 455. It’ll be nice when Richard gets his 500 on the dyno.

[@shaun.h.barlow]

@@stevelacker358 anybody have a "muscle car" motor doing 415 mph at Bonneville on gasoline? Cad company holds the gasoline powered land speed record with the 500s little brother 472. That motor came in a lot of two door cars with big engines aka "muscle car" also without over inflated specs on engine power which was so common among GMs other nameplate's even to this day Chevy crate engines almost never make claimed HP and tq numbers on the dyno

[@seabasschukwu6988]

Thank you for posting vids that people actually wanna see

[@steveelco114]

So true :)

[@bdugle1]

Buick is definitely the torque monster of its day! Great stuff. Looking forward to turbo, and heads-cam-intake upgrades. Can you get the cam specs for all the stock contenders? It might be very illuminating. Richard Holdener rocks!

[@karlsracing8422]

That 440 has about 7.4.1 compression.

[@jamyers1971]

Thank you for an intelligent discussion and comparison!!!

[@jimclarke1108]

Buick 455, it did beat the rest!

[@VinnyMartello]

I have a 350 Buick in my 66 Chevy pickup. I’ve towed some heavy trailers with it. I once pulled a 68 Cadillac sedan on a box framed flat bed trailer through the appalachians with that little half done. BUT YOU FAILED TI MENTION THE CADILLAC 472!!! It beats all of them!

[@richardholdener1727]

the 500 Cad is coming-torque king

[@VinnyMartello]

I look forward to it! Your videos are awesome!

[@EpicScandinavian]

Richard never sleeps!

[@xmo552]

Apparently

[@dustin3950]

A 430 or 462 Mel would be interesting to see. Great video.

[@erandy0240]

those were for sure torque animals

[@Dr_Xyzt]

Man, the stock Buick curve is mated to the application really well. Shifting at 4800 RPM on a TH400, it goes to 2900 RPM. 3200 RPM on a 2-3 shift. Sweet deal. I'd test three cams in that Buick engine.. A 204/210-117, a 228/240-112, and maybe... a 248/254-114. Lift would be around .580", likely less, stopping the pulls at 5200. The 204 cam is an interesting one. I firmly believe that GM pushed the LS into being atkinson cycle at 1400 rpm, and a big block can also do it with an appropriately sized cylinder head.

[@9morrical]

What would make the LS an atkinson cycle? do they hold the intake valve open too long, letting air revert back into intake manifold?

[@hemitic1254]

Early high comp 460s are the set up to find.

[@Kmecha84]

Just run flat tops with the 429 dove heads and a late 60's timing gear set. The later timing chain sets had built in retarded cam timing for smog reasons. That's all one needs to roast tires

[@larrynorsworthy8582]

@@Kmecha84 I've heard that about timing sets.

[@Kmecha84]

@@larrynorsworthy8582 if you hold up a late 60's crank sprocket to an early 70's one you'll see the keyway don't line up. The early 70's had 8 degrees retarded cam timing built into the timing set for smog

[@larrynorsworthy8582]

@@Kmecha84 8 degrees? 😲

[@Kmecha84]

@@larrynorsworthy8582 that's correct. An older timing set from a 69 429-460 wakes these motors up

[@peacecountrypickleball6040]

In my opinion the Buick combustion chamber holds a lot of answers. Whether by good design or simple luck, Buick with the '67 and newer engines had a nice, efficient combustion chamber. (Trickle down from the Olds 215 Jetaway? Charles Kettering was pretty sharp afterall.) With the Buicks, you have to build compression out, rather than try and build it in, the chambers are that small. Compared to the other Big Blocks, the Buick simply has a more efficient combustion chamber design. Second; The intake ports for the day were really good. Not necessarily in terms of total volume of flow, but quality of flow. The intake ports aim the flow well into the chambers/cylinders, leading to good swirl & turbulence on the compression stroke. Generally, back-to-back tests of "stock" big blocks, the Buicks always had the edge in low rpm torque production. The 472 and 500 Cadillac motors, those are a whole 'nother story and level of torque production. Love the channel, you are living my dream for me. Keep it up.

[@markbuchanan3694]

The original designers knew the problem with the nail head was the small valves due to the pent roof combustion chambers. The new for 67 400/430 engines didn't suffer for flow with the standard valve ,but it took the bigger bore of the 455 to really take advantage of the heads especially the stage heads with 2.13 intakes

[@strong_voice_of_truth]

I agree that it's definitely in the heads. The intakes are typical dual planes with a standard length runner. Buick heads are always designed (at least, factory heads) for high velocity.

[@Rampant_Colt]

excellent video! I can appreciate all your hard work that goes into these videos. Have a great weekend!

[@crgintx]

The cam was retarded 4* on all Ford V-8's from 73 on. Both the Dodge and Ford realistically had about 8:1 cr maybe 8.4-8.4 at most. First thing that any blueprint engine builder did back in the day was shave the heads to the get the correct stock CR. Usually had to deck the block to get the pistons to sit at the correct height. A blue printed big-block engine with a 'stock' cam and headers usually made about 30hp and 40 FP of torque over a real stocker. BTW Buick and Olds were cheating bastards back in the day. Only listed gross duration for their cam specs. Every stocker back in the day ran a Lunati reground 'cheater' stock cam that probably had 15-20 degrees more duration at .050 lift than rival car makers.

[@karlsracing8422]

7.4.1 for the 440

[@guyconnell2250]

I have concluded recently that a very scary number of KZbin watchers have OCD. Example? The fact that some obsessed and commented about the minute (if any at all) difference between the Brawler 750 and 800 QJet on this 455.

[@superkillr]

Nature of the beast. I'm surprised RH reads these replies. Sifting through the BS must be mind breaking.

[@deanstevenson6527]

superkillr : His background is marketing. He deals with the various kinds we have here like a pro merchandiser. Ill bet he danced a jig and exploded with his Ninja King hit after a "Squirrelss" comment and probably That took down the Everlast Punching Bag. Its a great deal of fun to read the comments.They are not just for RH. We get to read them too!

[@watsisbuttndo829]

Apples to apples comparisons of factory engines are damn near impossible really. But still interesting anyhoo!.

[@unicornsteaks6769]

watsis buttndo Yeah, if they were equal, they would be equal. And that would be boring.

[@chucksgarage7165]

Unicorn Steaks agreed

[@kevinkehlet1543]

Too bad you don't have an AMC 401

[@besearchingforwisdom6267]

The '71AMC 401 had 330hp with 430 on the torque with 9.5cr. Their 390 tall deck with 8.5cr showed a little less torque and a little more hp. www.purpleized.com/AMX/engine.shtml

[@dvjracing5947]

Definitely harder to find

[@michaelangelo8001]

Nothing exciting there...

[@kevinkehlet1543]

I know the figures.. I like different , but keeping with the other guys theme it would have been nice

[@kevinkehlet1543]

@@besearchingforwisdom6267 thanks posting the info card