First Look: The New PREDATOR 224 vs the 212! Test and Comparison!

[@garagemancave666]

Be interesting to build both motors identically with the same parts to verify just how much the bigger stroke helps in performance.

[@steveprice3355]

#redbeardsgarage is going to do that

[@icelover3]

Longer stroke definitely means more torque

[@tomgoodwin6275]

Just bought one of each and its upgrade timne and maybe get a go kart comparision

[@limprooster3253]

@@icelover3 Well, the increased displacement means more torque, so you're technically correct. But there is no correlation between stroke length and torque when displacement is the same.

[@icelover3]

@@limprooster3253 I disagree.

[@MountainEagle77]

Predator 224 on sale is $129.99. That’s what I’m picking one up for tomorrow.

[@mikesbarn1858]

Thanks for showing these side by side. The 212 hemi has 1 ft/lb more torque than the non hemi.

[@1BigGreaseMonkey]

I really appreciate the great comparison! For me personally, the hemi head is worth more than the extra stroke because I use them for work and need the reliability of the hemis rockers. I may be the only guy out there who pulled a brand new Honda off in favor of a Predator, but those rockers on the hemi have never left me stranded in the middle of a job like those crap Honda style rockers have countless times over the years!

[@doodlebug6833]

lol, and sell the honda, you could pay for the first predator and have a second for a back up.

[@Deucealive75]

$25 Champion rockers. Done.

[@philliphall5198]

I agree with you

[@87weberdrex]

The plastic cam gear is fine, plenty of small engine companies use plastic cam gears and turn crazy high RPM with them. Look into the Stihl HT 131 engine, it's a 4 cycle that runs on 2 stroke mix and has no sump, has a plastic cam gear, turns like 12k rpm, and they are stupid reliable.

[@glennlurman3514]

yep that engine wears the cam lobe before breaking the gear itself. they do start chewing there way thru the block behind cam but a shim washer stops that. Also not a stihl design originally designed in the 40s brought back too life via shindaiwa / echo still pays copyright royaltys too them.

[@bryduhbikeguy]

I see allot of questions about the plastic cam gear.How many have also seen the same in the Tillitson 226?The spinning weight mass is reduced drastically.I'd like to see it thicker,but they've done their tests and this is the company choice.Time will tell.Thanks guys.I'd pay the $40 extra for the torque,and reinforced block.

[@justinwillis7231]

Recently replaced the 212 on my sons go kart with a 224 and I honestly noticed a difference ,not so much in top end but we live in the mountains and just the change in mobility when it comes to pulling hills especially from a stop was 100% with the price difference If your not going to touch it and some light body’s are gonna ride it the 212 is more than enough ,if your an adult and don’t want to immediately build a motor or build budget is a issue start with something like the 224

[@MountainEagle77]

Excellent test here. Would love to see how the Predator 224 stacks up against the Tilliston 224 with 9hp.

[@jaredbudzinski8434]

I’d like to see a full tear down to see what parts are interchangeable. Since the first upgrades are flywheel connecting rod cams and bearings. Basically how different is the rod to see if we can still use the billet ones at go power sports or if the rod is longer now too.

[@tandmbros5877]

If any parts are different gps will probably have brand new parts stocked within a year

[@alternatemusicaddict5226]

Takes gx200 flywheel and takes ducar parts

[@DJTuningCom]

unless they moved the centerline of the crank in the block, the rod length will be different. my guess is the rod length is probably shorter.

[@Deucealive75]

@@DJTuningCom My guess is clone rod, specific piston.

[@Deucealive75]

I'll be going with a common stock length clone billet rod and a 70mm flattop. Then the fun begins with the block and cam clearancing.

[@glsracer]

Definitely like to see a fully built 224

[@GrowYourOwnFun]

Nice to see a side by side comparison 👍🏻

[@nashguy207]

I have always said there is no substitution for torque. Great video and review guys! God Bless!!

[@chrisreibold1634]

Nice comparison! I wonder if the 224 will replace the 212 or HF will carry both. I think they are going to release another new horizontal engine in the 13-16hp range too

[@JacobSherwood]

Good Job Gang!! Hit all the notes! I'll definitely be building mine

[@charlesgraham9954]

man thank u for ur time. saves all of us time. and yes to a build off, head to head, mod for mod? i dont know. lol again, ty

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

Anyone else notice the plasic gear on the 224 vs the metal gear on the 212? Wouldn't that run the risk of exploding at high rpm unlike the 212's metal gear? * Edit * - I guess they covered that at the end.

[@Deucealive75]

I don't think so. There are plenty of 196's out there running the plastic cam without issues. Some guys have added springs and are running them to 7K RPM. Their stock rod is going to wear out before they ever break the cam. My 6 year old 196 with a plastic cam is still doing fine and governed to 5K RPM. These guys didn't mention that this engine is made by Ducar and is of much better quality than any Pred 212 ever made. It's pretty much a big valve, big bore, stroked clone with a heavy duty block. The extra cost is well worth it.

[@TS4ITD]

bruh they coverd that right when the took the case off

[@infesting]

Plastic cam gears are no problem you can look at still chainsaws running at 15,000 RPMs reliably for a decade and they have plastic cam gears. A little gear like a cam gear without much stress on it is fine being plastic

[@limprooster3253]

I just want to point out that the 8.1 ftlb rating for the old 212 can't be right. Even if it made that at 3600 where it's rated for power you'd still only have 5.5 hp. That 10 ft-lb is really just a more accurate rating than an increase. I suspect the 212 makes about 9.5 ftlb

[@Deucealive75]

Agree. The advertised torque rating (8.1) on the 212 is not correct. The 196 clone was rated at 8.1 before the Predator came out.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Wondering if combustion chamber is same size and 224 has higher actual compression ratio... Also, these engines don't seem to perform like 6.5HP engines in minibikes/karts... seems lower...

[@jrinstl]

Thanks for the video... think ill stick with the 212cc for now..

[@repmikebarnes1]

Thanks for the show. I really enjoyed it. Now thanks to your comparison tomorrow I’m going to HF and buy two 212 himi engines for $129. Love your shop, store and your service. Mike

[@janicefullerton6201]

Thanks guys! Now we need price and comparison between the new predator motor and the go power sports 212motor and all pros and cons on both motors!

[@mando719ad]

Test if the 212 cam gear fits/works on the 224

[@MrTheHillfolk]

The extra 150rpm is no big deal, it's for a generator setup because they have to maintain at least 3600 under a full load with a generator, so the extras to account for governor droop.

[@bucks2beards194]

Was one of the engines louder than the other? I’m needing to fill a role where a quieter motor is more advantageous than an ever so slightly better performing one

[@mindovermatter3988]

I would really like to see a cam swap and some Springs with a flywheel. I feel this is going to be the comparable match up to a Tillotson 225 as far as Predator trying to be a competitor. But I look forward to seeing a 625cc mini bike. Maybe bore out to 700cc and have a 700cc street bike mini bike

[@Deucealive75]

@4RM lol. You got to be kidding.

[@carnivorecave]

Glad to see you out there maki9ng a video...I did not know there was a Predator 224 out there...Some competition to the Wildcat...

[@s14koukidrifter]

Great video. Do you know if the standard electric start kits will work with the new 224cc?

[@WyFoster]

EC Carbs has a pretty much drop in rod and flat top piston. (EC 8281 and Wildcat 223 70mm flat top) If you use an ARC rod, it's going to require some block and cam clearancing work. ARC 6773 for the stock piston and 6271 for a hemi flat top. The engine takes clone cams, rods, and flywheels. Which is a huge pro IMHO.

[@BuildBreakRepeat]

Sweet, Thanks for the Info!

[@Deucealive75]

Completely agree. No more BS unique crankshaft that the Pred 212's always had. My 196 flywheels will fit.

[@terrynolder6976]

you can put 196cc engines camshafts /flywheels with charging coils in 212 hemi or non hemi also works with 224

[@Deucealive75]

Wyatt Foster. So you used the EC rod and didn't need to clearance the block?

[@WyFoster]

@@Deucealive75 It requires just a tiny bit at the top of the cylinder. The ARC needs several spots.

[@justinlubow2266]

Would it be possible just to swap that metal cam gear right over from your 212?

[@GeorgiaRidgerunner]

I ran briggs and stratton pushmowers for years when i cut grass for a living they all had plastic cam gears never had a problem with them So plastic not a problem for me

[@DJTuningCom]

Great video! I've got an iron ton 208 thats been kicking around my shop. I can bring it over for y'all to test if you want to make engine reviews a regular thing

[@Deucealive75]

Is that the one you can get shipped to you for $135?

[@WJCTechyman]

Interesting comparison and the plastic cam can be an issue. I also think your pickup truck at the end is a beauty.

[@meco72104]

Dude good video. But The best part is the Chevy truck in the back ground, such a beautiful truck.

[@Mikefestiva]

Nice comparison video guys! Thanks 😊

[@jameshathaway5117]

I picked mine up for $10 more than a 212. For me it was more than worth it.

[@troy22nd]

I got my for $159.99

[@jameshathaway5117]

@@troy22nd I think I spent around $170 for mine. Realistically the reinforced block, stroker crank, rod, and piston cost about that without the rest of the motor.

[@troy22nd]

@jameshathaway5117 Actually, it was 189.99, but I had a 20% off coupon, so it was $151.99 + tax

[@jackzeilsdorff3164]

cool video ! i just got a 212 for my dirt bug its got a torque clutch on it.. i got a draggy to get the speed reading to try out. i still got my govenor yet. Nice truck i had the same truck in that combo but long bed ,

[@Jtm7708]

Wow they’ve gone up 30 bucks in 8 months, Inflation is insane

[@Bronco7656]

Nice work gentlemen! excellent comparison detail. I am picking up the 224cc this weekend to replace my Ariens snow thrower motor. I am going to be looking to replace that plastic camshaft gear.. seriously?? supposedly makes the engine more quiet? would have been interesting to do a decibel level check between the two engines? But thanks again for the great video!

[@BuildBreakRepeat]

Thank you for watching everyone, let us know if you’d like to see us build these engines and do more testing, or throw other engines in the mix!

[@justinyates1154]

I'd like to see it built up, valve springs, a cam, and exhaust and intake work would definitely wake it up, and I believe the the bit extra displacement will start to make more of a difference in power levels as compared to the 212 built the same way.

[@jaredbudzinski8434]

Compare it to a TILLITSON 225/228

[@LNRRidez]

Yall have the funding for it, I'd like to see you compare it to a Ducar as well.

[@crownedgorrilla]

Have you ever did a stage 2 plus vm22 carb and then have issues with self throttling??

[@LNRRidez]

@@crownedgorrilla make sure when you put the cable into the 22mm carb, that the nipple in the carb is lined up with the groove in the cable. I did it wrong once, fired up the kart, and it took off like a rocket ship with my kid in it into thw front yard, over the ditch and flipped lol

[@peanut71968]

Great comparison, and, awesome pickup!

[@Catbert814]

Since the 212 is on sale this week and 224 is not I'll be getting the 212. I do be liking the red on the 224 tho

[@MrDad-ok8qe]

This was a well put together video guys.

[@joshvandruff1790]

Awesome video. I wonder if the cam gears could be interchangeable. Get rid of the plastic stuff.

[@justinyates1154]

I was thinking the same but it would increase the rotational mass

[@madgav935]

9:27 so no one’s going to acknowledge the coolest truck in the background

[@filthyanimal874]

Heck yeah that’s a beautiful classic truck!!!

[@jamescampau9196]

Ligit what I was thinking the whole time

[@randyhertzberg7549]

I'm sure many vids will pop up, doing mods to the 224. Do the cams interchange ? What about valve sizes ? A peek at the combustion chamber ? Is the 224 a Hemi ?

[@crystalclearwindowsllc]

The 212 has been selling at 119 here in Florida

[@2strokeguru]

Awesome video thanks for helping me decide on my build the bikes I do on my KZbin channel are not these style bike but I do have a coleman ct200u I'm building

[@HotRodDave]

I need a mini bike. I really like yours. Cool test. My boys have a Kart with a 212 and it runs pretty good.

[@stclairstclair]

I want to see a comparison between the 224 and the ghost

[@thisguysdc]

The numbers are understandable for newer slightly more and bigger motor

[@bryduhbikeguy]

51,712 Views."Red Beard" mentioned you on his video of these,and I suggested they come here to watch the tests.Lets see ,in a week, the count.Hope it draws more to you guys.

[@ozcorr909]

great video very informative and to the point ,what clutch and sprocket do you recommend?

[@TreyGoose]

My cousin has a go kart with a stock 224 and all he did was override the governor an at like 25%throttle I'm already goin like 50-55🤣I'm too scared to be scared to go faster lol the power feels unlimited

[@madixj]

My biggest concern is will a non-hemi 212 stage 1 kit fit the 224? I found a nice stage 1 kit for the non-hemi predator but idk if it'd work for the 224🤷‍♂️

[@tylertimmons5543]

Plastic cam gear sold it for me. I’m buying one to put on a 1964 tiller. I’ll go with the 212

[@GeorgiaRidgerunner]

I see the power and torque increase for the increased horse power its seems negligible Is there any chance of side by side comparison video of the 224 and 212 i saw the the strengthened block but lets be honest the original blocks didnt suffer any issues related to a weak block Im interested in seeing if they strengthened the recoil starter possibly made the in take and exhaust less restrictive

[@thesuperjank6109]

does the 224 come with a hemi head? my understanding is the hemi 212 is slightly more powerful than a non hemi. if the 224 also has a hemi head option there may be an even bigger power difference compared to the 212 hemi

[@justinbgraf7565]

Will the 212 cam gears swap over to new one?

[@DavidSmith-sf2ys]

So theyre made by Ducar if you noticed the stamp inside the case at 2:02

[@zeroskater720]

Would it be worth it on a wake winch?

[@edinaldomanuel8329]

Thanks guys..you are awesome. I believe time is v important...212 it's very simple, and we don't need to replace parts, except if you have another plan. 224 need some modifications, change de plastic gear, exactly the same happened in Canada, Princess Auto, sell a good engine, but it's come with plastic, the new plastic mentally... disposable. I stick to old school... last for ever. Cheers guys, good luck.

[@richardhatt6541]

So the first thing you do is pull the govenors? Now you have skewed results. It should have been used right out of the box and then any changes to both.

[@999benhonda]

Those extra jets included with the 224...are they larger than what comes in the carb?

[@Deucealive75]

No. They are smaller for running the engine at higher elevations.

[@TerraMagnus]

Were they already discontinued? Harbor Freight doesn’t seem to carry them anymore.

[@nick-ff8kk]

Still need a power wheels build!

[@jamesmower1852]

In the 224 have a longer stroke than the 212 where you're really going to see the difference in power is when you start 301 a different cam in or high compression Pistons that's when that 3 mm is really going to shine

[@Jack-sn6oq]

Epic truck in the background

[@MrTbone1113]

That torque would be great for my snow blower, my built 212 didn't like the wet snow...at all lol

[@drd1924]

NOT in favor of plastic/nylon anything gears....thanks for showing us this.

[@dbfabworks5320]

Great Video! Id be curios to see the 212 cam in the 224.

[@Deucealive75]

Why? Nothing special about a 212 stock cam. Only a hemi cam will work because it's a clone cam. Non hemi cam will not work in the 224.

[@jamesmower1852]

I wish they would just start putting a billet connecting rod and every one of their engines and just add the price right on top of it that would be great

[@igokarts4510]

What size are the jets that come with it? Should have a few extra?

[@robertomoreno5526]

Nice video I have a question what kind of mini bike is that I would love to buy one just like it .it looks light and fast.?

[@juniorbeginnerbeginner1790]

Hellz ya bro yr back thought u where on yr mission God bless u guys I'm building 🛒

[@POSminiracer]

Is the flywheel aluminum? Do you know if the rod is forged or cast? What does that sticker say on the front flywheel cover? Same as the Ducar 212? Thanks

[@BustedKnucklesBuildsTexas]

Great video guys .

[@fauxque5057]

I thought I was slick. I have a 2" pump with a 212 and a mini bike with a 212. The pump had red covers so I swapped them to be different. Now people will think it's a 224

[@dandil]

you might be able to get a high compression stroker by swapping the pistons

[@tandmbros5877]

If the 212 piston is taller i might pickup a 224 because ive got three parts 212s

[@limprooster3253]

Could probably use a 212 rod in a 224 and get more compression too

[@Deucealive75]

A Pred 212 rod will not work on the 224. Not sure why you would want Pred 212 parts on this engine in the first place. Pred 212's have a unique crankshaft, always have. The 224 has a 58mm stoke clone crankshaft. Meaning it has a clone flywheel taper and clone rod journal. A stock Pred 212 piston will not fit on the stock 224 rod.

[@limprooster3253]

@@Deucealive75 I'm not sure if the rod journal is the same or not. If not then you're right, it won't work. I assumed since a predator non hemi is loosely based on a Honda, and some parts do interchange, that it may work. But to answer your question, why would you want a 212 rod in it? Assuming the deck height of both blocks is the same, the 224 would require a slightly shorter rod, as the piston travels up an extra 1.5mm. so the rod has to be at least 1.5mm shorter (probably like 1.7mm but I'm just guessing) to account for the increased stroke. So the 212 rod, provided it didn't cause clearance issues with valves, would significantly increase compression.

[@Deucealive75]

@@limprooster3253 The compression on the 224 is pretty much ready once you throw the .050" head gasket in the garbage. Mine came stock with the piston at zero deck. And is at zero deck with the flat top and standard length ARC clone billet rod I got for it. A better option may be the wildcat billet rod and piston for those looking for big power. Their piston is lighter than the common 70mm piston I got. And they say there is less clearancing of the block with the wildcat billet rod than there is with the ARC rod. What I do not know is how far the wildcat parts will put you in or out of the hole. But yeah. Pred 212 rods do not fit a clone rod journal.

[@scottsanders156]

I want that truck! Thanks for the info guys.

[@simpleman2980]

First, let me say....Awesome truck!!!! Great comparison...very informative. Thanks for all of the info.!!!

[@hobonickel840]

I have a brand new 212 hemi ..I bought few years ago on sale and never used. Can I swap in the #18 valve springs with stage 1 or do I have to change flywheel... I'm getting mixed comments on springs and hemi ...I already have stage 1 kit ..just wondering if I need change to lil heavier springs

[@collinblake9957]

So where did you get the 224? They are not available on harbor freight websight.

[@troy22nd]

And do they both take the same size intakes, same measurements?

[@matthew197735]

you was expecting less from the 212? i put 1 on a go kart and was getting about 35mph the go-kart was about 450lbs of weight between my a the kart so i was not impressed with the comparison video and the 224 only gave 2mph more and only gained 0.36 on time for for that much more in price

[@kenjohnson5498]

Just curious if everything is the same but the plastic cam gear why couldn't you switch one from a 212?

[@BuildBreakRepeat]

You definitely could do that if you already have one or don’t want to spend much, but if you’re in there swapping cams might as well throw an upgraded one

[@troy22nd]

Do you need to remore the governor gear or can you get away with just removing the arm?

[@levisylvester]

I would like to see this vs a honda and subaru Robin! Good vid:)

[@teshuvahemmet3036]

Thanks for the information 👍

[@bikelife_Bizzle684]

Did you just remove the governor arm or the whole gear inside the motor?

[@hillonwheels8838]

The problem I see is if you put heaver valve springs on the 224 you will have to replace the cam. I don't think that plastic gear would be able to handle the increased load of the heaver valve springs. Be interesting to see how long it would last.

[@carsonshipley3287]

I wonder if the 224 and 212 have the same cam size then you could just swap them and put heavier springs

[@Deucealive75]

The thing I like about these is that they are more clone like than the Pred 212 ever was. And it's one of the reasons I got one. It has a clone flywheel taper. Clone rod journal. Uses common clone cams. I already got a cam for it but if I was concerned about the plastic cam I would just use my 13 year old stock 196 cam. My 196 flywheels will fit the 224. I will be using a genuine GX200 aluminum flywheel on the 224. Pred hemi cam fits in the 224, Pred non hemi 212 cam does not.

[@johnsmithfakename8422]

Price difference around $40. Is it worth it? I say it all depends on the application. Do I consider the price difference worth it? A little. I can guess that the price difference comes from the R&D, the re-tooling, and the additional material used in construction. If they ditch the .212 line and only sold the .224 line then I can see the price coming down because of volume. I really like the idea of the .224 but I am not in the market for such an engine.

[@Deucealive75]

This engine is made by Ducar. The quality and heavy duty engine block are easily worth the extra cost for the mini bike or go kart application.

[@bapasrcadventures3619]

Good job guys. Thanks

[@jaywill530]

You are brave .. running these ungoverned with the stock flywheel !!!>... eee !! ... get a couple of billet flywheels from ARC. The reinforced block on the 224 is worth the difference. GORGEOUS TRUCK IN THE BACKGROUND !!

[@michealrobinson]

I think for a couple bucks more, people would buy it more then the 212 if they put a metal cam gear in it.

[@Bull3tBikes]

I’d say it’s worth it, out of the box the 224 makes about as much torque as a built 196cc that RBG dynoed in a video

[@mikejohansen4263]

Hello what is the bolting pattern on the 224?

[@GeorgiaRidgerunner]

Fellers on that 224 box it said the torque increase was at higher r.p.m. That makes me think At 3600 r.p.m. like 212 it the same or less torque

[@georgecampbell2279]

was the 224 cam gear helical? and the 212 straight gut gears?

[@blakestonebustosrb]

Will the 224 fit a mini bike mocked up with a 212?

[@thecatsstuckinthewallagain1090]

Interesting naming choice

[@stevew3978]

Does the metal cam gear for the 212cc fit onto the 224cc engine?

[@hillwooky]

At 8:02 it says DUCAR cast right into the block.