Building A Landing (and Stairs) For My New Deck

Today I'm transforming the basic pine staircase that came with this track home into a beautiful landing + railing for the new deck. Watch the deck build from the beginning 👉🏼 • Easiest Deck Build Eve... Buy the Camo System used in this video 👉🏼geni.us/zkXGdd (Amazon)
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[@glmorten]

Jeff - I have been watching your videos for years now. You have helped me build a 10x20 detached office that is fully insulated and drywalled with recessed lighting and electrical. Thanks man you have saved me a TON of money.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

That is awesome! And well done my man!

[@3rdPartyIntervener]

And then his daughter comes home from her trip and says, "That's an awesome deck, Dad... but my house is the one next door!"

[@MBMCincy63]

Noooo! 😱😱😱. Jeff is way too thorough to get the house wrong.

[@rpaasse6453]

😂

[@gergemall]

You’re still strong and brilliant ❤.

[@gergemall]

Good one .

[@redriverbluesman]

Thanks, I've been watching you for over a year now, always appreciate your style. I'm finally ready to build our deck landing, stairs, leading to what will be our floating deck. I don't have near your skill set but you showed me a pretty comprehensive list of everything I could need. Wish me luck!

[@ex7969]

Jeff your deck, fence and outdoor instructions helped me to build a stunning outdoor "Dominican Republic" in my backyard. People keep taking pictures and asking me what company I hired😁 And I keep referring them to your DIY channel 😁. Thank you very much 🤝

[@AKADriver]

I just built a deck railing myself. Same style as the ones they sell at the orange store, but I had to continue the railing over a retaining wall so I had to cut it to different heights. It came out so much better than the premade wood ones. It's definitely worth building yourself.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Well done. Cheers!

[@sheilabloom7602]

I loved this video and learned important tips. Thank you

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Glad it was helpful!

[@1972bcain]

Jeff- Awesome video like always. I like the variety, especially useful for homeowners/DIY since we are not tradesmen and might find ourselves doing all kinds of stuff. Also thank you for putting yourself out there (KZbin) with these videos over the years…. My BIL is an electrician and now works for an engineering firm- I am learning that Absolutely Everyone loves to tear apart everyone else’s techniques, work ethics, code enforcement, experience, tools, speed etc. literally probably the hardest type of KZbin channel to subject yourself to… Keep your skin thick and keep cranking videos…

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

no worries. I got realllly thick skin and a great community.

[@wrenchboostboi8994]

I love this guy. Great tutorials that are all useful for me as a maintenance/repairmen, plus all his dad noises make me smile

[@theeolives]

Jeff you are to funny. You make very informative funny vids. There's humor in everything! Thank you for tyhis great vid.!! Loving the Camo tool as well.

[@koifish1le996]

to fix that warp, you could've just driven a screw into the joist that sat lower. Then take your hammer and slide the claw over the screw and pry the high joist down. Once it's in line, drive a screw to hold it while you nail it. Good tips

[@toria-j]

I love the glee you get out of something working out.

[@albertm8576]

Jeff Awesome video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. It’s great watching a professional run into an issue and fix it on the fly and just keep going. Great job 👏 👏👏

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jmackinjersey1]

I really like their Ledger Board being nailed over the top of the siding. Class act there.

[@toddcanipe1190]

Awesome Videos!! I have never done anything like this before. Your video helped me to understand the details of an adventure! Thank you so much, Sir!!

[@CoveringFish]

You did it this the DAY I finished my stair and landing that I was struggling with

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

LOving it!

[@colleenscottcarmello5103]

I'm building a small, simple deck on the back.. I learned there are so many ways to build them. I've taken a lot of your ideas to incorporate into it. like the box steps from a leveling deck rebuild from you. two simple boxes, large one on bottom, smaller one on top.. bam.. sturdy steps. :)) curious here, why you didn't just install an additional metal frame under the other end of the entry decking, thinking that end might get a little bouncy over time? I'm not an engineer so don't really know.. I also learned, from this video, how to shorten the inner boards and the way you screwed them for extra strength.. Thanks so much for sharing that. I'll use that in my deck also as I love the way it looks and how strong the corners are.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

I ended up releasing the mounting screws to allow frost heave and framing in a privacy screen under that side. solid as a rock now. Cheers!

[@gergemall]

Thank you Jeff ,it’s on my list for my 100 plus year old house renovation

[@dylan-nguyen]

*quick* video Jeff? It’s 45m! I’ll still watch every minute 😊 Edit: only thing I’ll add is you can get a $15 Kreg pocket hole jig for screwing in at those angles. A pro like you could probably get those angles in easily but for any beginner it’s a great tool and can be used for building furniture and cabinets!

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Cheers but it is so easy to just drill back a bit instead of needing another tool around.

[@joseph7105]

Ah the "builder special" Always a treat when a framer tries building a deck. Here is a tip for anybody out there building a house: Get your finish carpenter (the trim/door guy) to build your deck.

[@jimhatch5873]

"I work like a princess" - love it 🤣

[@MBMCincy63]

Shivering black bell and thumbs up! "" Minimum code 🤔 when an Old man can tear it apart..."" I laughed so suddenly!! I had to run to the toilet !!!😂😂🥰😆 Thanks for a great giggle!

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Cheers!

[@timothyhili8239]

Hi Jeff, I have always been a fan of hidden deck fasteners and I have used the camo system on 3 decks so far, however I go one step further. For the riser and picture frame I screw the board's from the inside of the frame so no surface screws are visible. I need to make sure I use screws that won't punch through the front of the deck board's. But it works great.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

very nice. adhesive and Pl is also great, however on my Daughter's deck I decided to go surface because that is where most damage happens and I wanted it to be an easy fix one day. Cheers!

[@jimpie231]

Nice set of videos on deck and new stair setup. Two things I didn’t like, the Cedar superstructure and the stair platform overhang. I would have added another metal angle brace or did a couple of 2x6 diagonal bracing underneath. You could of made a spot on the deck for the grill, closer to the gas pipe on the wall. I didn’t understand much about the gas pipe. I’m not sure I would have done this kind of floating deck. I have done a 16’x48’ deck in 2004, green superstructure and cedar top. The superstructure is a cantilever design from the home, 16’ out, and a support beam placed 12’ out. It’s on 13 concrete 10” posts, 48” in the ground, with a 2x10 x 48’ double wooden beam with 1/2” filler. The deck is all 2x10 joists and an exterior 2x12 to make it look pretty. My only repair was last year 8….8’ cedar boards on the top. I also have power on the deck for a rotisserie on the grill and 2 gas quick connects for our grill. A fence around the table section (deck is 18” off the ground), built in seating that can be facing in or out and is fully skirted because of local code requirements. I also have a center stair and a corner stair with a railing, both with concrete pads.

[@rpaasse6453]

Its true, inflation is crazy, but so are the house-prices. Right? And we are not old! We are seasoned. Like a Diesel engine, we have our miles, but still so many more to go. Great video, again, thank you Jeff.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Well said!

[@Kevlar-78]

Love your content Jeff ! Thanks for all the tips / advice and real world skills. Cheers 🍻!

[@jmackinjersey1]

That tear down is Prime Example of why you never nail/screw into the end grain of the boards, especially the stringer to joists. Everything failed quite easily.

[@DotTheCarpenter]

I love your videos and your crew👍🔥

[@Techisol]

Thank You brother. ThAT WAS FUN.

[@hickorysocks2628]

I love how even though you’re a millionaire from KZbin, you still live like us regular people.

[@dustindircks6647]

Homeowner be like. Wow he’s amazing. He knows how to do everything. Contractors be like. Hack attack. What a scab. But honestly for the basic homeowner which the channel is designed for. It’s perfect

[@ynotbloom]

(.., hard to claim scab, when you either don’t answer your phone because you’re so busy… Or when you do you tell your next customer that you’re 9 to 13 months out from being able to do their job for them!…)

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Ouch with the backhanded compliment. To be honest....very little contractor work is done to the pro level anymore. being independent of the system is the only way to get things done. now.

[@dustindircks6647]

@@HomeRenoVisionDIY I love your channel. My comment wasn’t meant to insult you. Your a pro at some things and above average on other projects. Nothing wrong with that.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

cheers!

[@jasonbare3472]

You know what they say jack-of-all-trades is ALWAYS better than a master of one.

[@ACDoesIt247]

Comments like “if someone wants to spy on you, they’ll find a way” are one of the many reasons I love this channel 😂

[@javishm]

Just in time!

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Cheers!

[@mmmyko]

"Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-tuff really dries out." Almost haha

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-tuff happens. Cheers!

[@mr.enriquez9533]

Nice!!

[@anthonykuch4218]

Great design/build

[@josiespreitzer1690]

Hi Jeff. What project haven’t you helped me bringing my 1935 cottage into the 21st century? Gonna work in the deck this summer, and have added the Camo screw angle gizmo to my Lowe’s shopping cart…thanks! The deck you’re kindly building your daughter looks AmAzInG🎉. But as a designer, I might have extended the part of the deck a foot or 18” to the right of sliding door, just to have a little more breathing room there. I know there’s an electrical outlet there, which may have limited the width of the door deck. Thank you for all the GREAT lessons over the years!

[@dtsang508]

I wish I can be this guy's apprentice.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Cheers!

[@outdoorzone]

Great video and tips!!!!! Thx again!!

[@NoQuarter01]

Jeff those were some fancy moves getting out from under there! Don’t lie I know you pulled your back 😂

[@jamiehilton5195]

Great content. Really found your tips and techniques helpful. Sending best wishes from the U.K

[@peter.g6618]

Hi Jeff. As usual, outstanding work. Looks amazing. Your videos are brilliant. Very helpful. Thank you for sharing. Take care. 👍👌🪒🔨🪚🪛😁

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Thanks 👍and Cheers!

[@kevingraham9697]

Jeff your awesome but let that chop saw eat man lol

[@CopperCanyonTerrapins]

@19:48....informative and entertaining! LOL

[@msjoy2005]

Usually I can follow but this video I couldn’t. Thankfully I’m not building a deck lol nice job!!

[@brucemartini2288]

Id put galvanized nut and bolt thru it!

[@andrewgehling6566]

Love your videos, because I feel like I learn a lot. And now you're spitting Red Green quotes? Be still my heart

[@TheSpud1129]

Jeff - Everyone knows Chinesium is strong and reliable! Clinton said so! And I'm not going to apologize! hahahahaha

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Love that, and the Clinton reference. I think I peed myself

[@howardcrane5902]

Don’t you mean Elon.

[@SimJDKS]

It was made to the spec requested. Cheap. Some areas did dumb things, like Mexico putting steel mills on to of a mountain making quality hard for them, china is excellent at delivering the exact spec requested. It was decided by the assemblers of these products you only want cheap.

[@ewdtrey]

​@@SimJDKS I've done enough quality control to know, China doesn't do things to spec Oooooooften

[@SimJDKS]

@@ewdtrey sadly much of the spec is "make it 15% cheaper" for a lot of this type of stuff. Like every place there were be manufactures that willfully ignore quality over speed and profit desires (I see 100s of examples of that in North America as well), but you can set a spec of minimum quality requirements and get that. If the big box store didn't want "just cheaper" they could get from better sources, they obviously didn't ask for that.

[@teddepalma8057]

Another great video. "If you're not handsome, be lucky." You channeling Red Green? : )

[@Beholderoffate]

Old man moves 😂

[@richardbenson4750]

"Will build deck for food"... great video

[@billm.8220]

It’s definitely a lot of work but it’s going to LAST a LONG time & will up the value of the property.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Just a few thousand bucks in wood. And I got about a $15,000 equity position.

[@sonnybowman]

I will suggest that failing to tie the railing into the house requires you to build a larger landing. Large enough for at least a 2' return on each side. You may have a formula for that. Something like the return should be equal to the height. Maybe not so much if diagonal support is installed or even an X. The amount of force that will be applied against that railing at its weakest spot will be phenomenal at some point. Hang a gate on that and see what happens. Gates are the absolute worst. Me done!

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Just grown ups on this deck so no gates needed. for additional support run the post into the frame and then add the decking. Cheers!

[@baxt1412]

“Quick little video today” 😂😂😂 45 min video 😂😂

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

right sorry I had intended it to be much quicker.

[@baxt1412]

@@HomeRenoVisionDIY just busting your chops! We love the content keep it up. I have learned so much

[@onryboy2264]

That snow fall amount was nothing compared to some of the snow that California has seen this winter. Another fine repair video with a lot of information.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

Thanks 👍

[@kodiak536kodiak536]

I got a question for you. I need to figure out how to hang a joist, maybe a 2"x6"x14' inside my metal building. It will ge used as storage above my shop setup. Should it be doubled up for more strength or single? 16" or 24" OC? Nailed or brackets? Hangers or strapped. Celing will be maximum 8' high. May opinions, but nothing really informative. Thank you in advance.

[@colleenscottcarmello5103]

is there a finished deck video.. would love to see that..

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

coming soon. Cheers!

[@kenhilson786]

About 70 years ago I shoved my knee between the porch spindle. Dad dad to cut the spindle out. Never did replace it.

[@christinec1928]

It's still beyond me why anyone would use Phillips screws when Robertson is so much easier to work with.

[@catsmeow5566]

A privacy screen seems like a great idea. Man, I could not live that close to neighbors. I don't want to see them or hear them. Fortunately, that is my current situation. I don't see them, they don't see me and we have our privacy. But man, that landing came apart way too easily. I would not have been able to get out from under that thing or back up that easily. I have a hard enough time standing up to get out of bed without falling back down. Is there any advantage to orienting the boards perpendicular to the door vs parallel to the door? I need to build a couple of landings and am trying to think of the best way to do it. One is outside a sliding glass door and the other is outside an inswing exterior door. If my landing is not very tall but I want to have railing just to grab on to, do I need to worry about spindles? Or could I just pop one spindle in the middle for reinforcement and call it done? I've found myself in a bind more than once with soft screws stripping out-- even in pre-drilled holes. I like the star bit screws better than philips. Chinese drill bits & screws can really suck. They make the cheapest stuff possible. I do like those base caps and end caps for the posts. Although, I'm thinking I might use the tuffblocks (camo blocks are out of stock in my area) and run the posts all the way up.

[@jewdd1989]

I have a very random question, no offense taken if there isn’t a response. I saw a window well to the right side of this mini deck and that reminded me of my window well, specifically my egress window casing or frame. It’s rotting out, I have an expensive, thick plexi glass covering that pops open and anyways I think that’s partially due to the rot. My area is in sw KS and we are basically a desert full of dust storm like the 1930’s yet with 2-3x weekly watering via a sprinkler in the late spring/summer for some reason has led to the wood frame around my egress window to rot almost into the interior wall as I’m seeing slight staining on the frame inside. Anyways what would you recommend?! Of course I’ll have to change how I water and go to manually by hand or plant drought tolerant plants but I was told pvc trim is the worst to use because supposedly it’s expands and contracts more than wood and over time melts or fails. I’ve never heard that before but I’m clueless when it comes to siding, trim, window well drama lol. I love woodworking/building and can do a lot of things but this is outside of my skill level

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

the plexiglass is what is causing your issue. simply install a vinyl window to avoid issues. Cheers!

[@jewdd1989]

@@HomeRenoVisionDIY thanks a bunch for responding! I’ll give that a try

[@fev3rd]

What is that frame they use to make the deck landing. Looks similar to the hangers I used in the garage to store lumber for drying.

[@marscott9403]

New follower, love your channel! My question is I thought you want the slight slope for runoff? Or is that not apply to wood planks?

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

between the gaps in the wood and the sealer/stain very little water sits on the wood post rain. The use of a large squeegee sets up the deck to dry in minutes.

[@robertfowler3457]

Jeff, love the videos, do you have a link to that impact socket set?

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

not sure. got mine at the HD. Cheers!

[@number1pappy]

Is it a code thing that the deck has to have a step down from the door bottom plate? Or can it be built level with back door bottom plate?

[@hogancauldron3995]

Can the camo system be used on stair treads?

[@lanceh543]

I have a question. If the screws for the post are so bad, why use them? Why couldn't you just use exterior screws the same length or even longer? Seems unsafe to use the bad screws?

[@whales302]

Wait? It wasn't attached to the ground so how do you explain after taking it apart that it was moving up and down with frost heave?

[@joymiller1608]

Jeff, I came across your KZbin channel and have enjoyed your explanations on the hows and whys in your building projects process. One sad thing, I cringe every time I see the use of tools without eye protection. I have shared your video links with my nephew who is new to carpentry. Please throw in a few comments about safety even though you don’t use eye protection. Your skills and guidance is appreciated!

[@Fluffy_Rumples]

Ive never seen a patio where it didnt cover the entire width of the slider door. Is this common practice up there?

[@merlepatterson]

44:43 Dewalt says "Ouch!"

[@gabrielo8922]

“Quick little video today” is how a 47 minute long movie starts.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

It was going to be quick, but then I ran into a challenge or 2. Cheers we edited it down.

[@joseflores898]

what attachment is he using? where can i get that?? The one for his drill.

[@publicmail2]

From the setback requirements to the codes Canada seems worse then US.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

except that at least as homeowners we can all open a permit for just about anything all by ourselves. Cheers!

[@publicmail2]

@@HomeRenoVisionDIY Ah I live in FL and you too, land of freedom, permit freedom. If not I 'd still do it myself...

[@theamerican4609]

What code do you use in Ontario for decking requirements? Thanks.

[@vetsus3518]

so obviously this is the second time you've used that railing system.. and it makes me want to change mine so much because i used the standard spindles (like the ones on the one you tore off this house) and... i like it.... but not as much as this system... so i may have to swap... lucky for me because i have tall posts (since 2 are for an overhang and 2 are for speakers) i won't have such a tight measurement for post heights... you know... since i don't have a it. however, i'll probably add another post for a railing on the other side at some point.... not necessary since the deck height there is less than 2 feet... but it's a thought so i may have to consider the system you used for that as well. however.. excellent job... no use of the term 'skill saw' on a circular saw finally. cheers mate!

[@joshuagallagher5776]

Did you say that this handrail kit is available at Home Depot?

[@denisegaylord382]

Jeff, question... Why didn't you just move one of the steel supports to where you wanted it? You could have still kept the cantilever, but then you wouldn't have to do all the math to level the top platform. Just thinking out loud.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

that would require another trip to the store and I was just trying to knock this out while the kids were away. sometimes working on a timeline affects your better judgement. Cheers!

[@denisegaylord382]

@@HomeRenoVisionDIY I gotcha. I too sometimes have to revise on the fly because I don't want to drive back to the store. Overall this part of the project came out great. Definitely not a "builders package" grade landing. I am still amazed that his held up for as long as it did, 😲 I used those aluminum powder coated balustrades on a porch project years ago. I did a similar install. Instead of lining up the two separate pieces for the rails where the balustrades went, I used my drill press to drill press to drill out the holes, (stopping short of going through), and then used my table saw to cut it into two pieces with matching holes for the balustrades. Then I used a two by four top and bottom, laid flat to mount the pickets to. It came out great. I am looking forward to the completion of this project. The kids are going to be thrilled. I appreciate how easy you make it. 🍻

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

We actually had an engagement party on that deck last fall after I finished. this is going to be 1 year since construction soon and it still looks like new. Cheers!

[@zephyr1408]

U ever use a construction pro calculator? You are not comp for accumulating error! ?

[@bdm1000]

Can you laminate those joists with the nails you used, or are screws better?

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

structural screws are best but in any case this was overkill. Cheers!

[@kenhilson786]

I was able to speed up using camo by buying 2nd unit and son and I worked from each end. Beat him just standing to watch.

[@colleenscottcarmello5103]

Jeff, I'm wondering if you have anything that shows how much materials used.. or how you figure out how much you will need. meaning like the deck screws.. ex: 10X10 deck needs x-amount of screws, x-amount of hangers yadda yadda. :))

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

for material purchases I just do basic math and then take the finished sq ft shopping for fasteners. the boxes have the sg ft written on them and since all deck boards are 16" o/c and 5 1/2" wide it is really accurate. Cheers!

[@j.r.whitehead7195]

Please tell me how I can make a hundred-year-old bathtub look better I don't trust the re-enamel process. Will Marine paint work?

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

I don't know why. reglazing is a real thing and works great. get around 10 years out of a re glazing on site.

[@polocash11]

I am trying to take my old deck apart. I used pretreated wood and screws. The wood has shrunk and tightened around the screws causing me to strip them taking them out which I cannot. Any secrets?

[@jasonbare3472]

When the end goal is only making profit it's really tough to do nothing more than the bare minimum, God bless Western Society.

[@pauls4294]

why not use a rip edge/fence?

[@ivanostellato9478]

foam filler no gaps

[@kenhilson786]

Did that long 2x8 at house just jump in at 3:45?

[@allanevans6855]

how about build a correct set of stairs?

[@ajdonally1522]

I thought IRC code was your boards couldn't overhang more then 1"

[@jrbutterfly31]

They won't. he's allowing room for another "finish" cedar board to be added underneath (oriented vertically).

[@TheMrlarin]

Anyone knows where to get the bracket that attaches to the foundation? Looked around online and couldn't seem to be able to find one

[@nesparas1176]

Why did you cheap out on the deck tape?

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

no trees around means no organics so it really isn't necessary. Cheers!

[@anthonymikkelson7394]

I have bought those forsener bit sets twice 4 years apart and same terrible quality. Both times they were too dull to get through poplar. I only needed 1 but I bought the kit for value but now i would rather spend 30 on the 1 I actually need.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

poplar is the hardest softwood around so best to use hardwood quality tools.

[@kam7056]

❤

[@sociopathmercenary]

I've had so much trouble with the included chinesium hardware that I automatically just buy new screws for everything I put together

[@SuperMatt1969]

good video but please done normalise working without PPE inlcding eye protection when usig nail gun

[@nicholasneaves3134]

What kind of bit is that I’ve looked and haven’t been able to find it

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

You need to shop where they sell exchange a blade. Cheers!

[@helmet098]

I would not trust that dinky angle frame to hold anything

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

steel is much stronger than most people think.

[@helmet098]

@@HomeRenoVisionDIY I THINK the concrete it's anchored into will fail way before the steel (that was barely suited for the previous landing) especially with the new heavier, cantilevered deck

[@robsinclair1001]

I read in the comments your on a diet could you please share the program your on.

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

nothing but steak twice a day. down 4 lbs last week. Cheers!

[@benh580]

Do you have a garage door swap out video?

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

sorry not yet! Cheers!

[@benh580]

@@HomeRenoVisionDIY no worries. Thanks

[@mrupholsteryman]

I was told to remove one panel at a time... I've replaced my springs a few times and thought of inquiring about doing the work of a garage door repair guy... but after a dozen years as an x ray tech... starting over at the bottom of a tier would not be a good move financially...but if you're fairly mechanically inclined... a LOT of it is common sense. The torsion springs can be deadly of you don't know what you're doing... I saw a video on KZbin how to replace the broken springs....you can save a few bucks and use some solid steel bar the same dimension diameter (instead of just buying the "correct tool" from the garage door company...

[@HomeRenoVisionDIY]

just don't...there are easier ways to make money fixing the house and the garage door is almost a 100% return on investment with no risk when hiring it out.

[@mrupholsteryman]

@@HomeRenoVisionDIY never knew THAT!

[@jondenman9069]

With the deck right in front of you as a reference could you not have sized the landing so as to NOT rip a little slice of deck board at the end of your run? Would have looked a lot more pro.