Building Freight Trains at Chadwick Model Railway | 155.

Building accurate freight trains at Chadwick Model Railway.
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[@paulcassidy8130]

Well, that was educational! And no, it's not sad. This is not about pedantic rivet counting; it's about understanding the operational aspects of railways and is what can makes railway modelling so much more interesting than just running a toy train round an oval. We just need the DCC technology to allow us to change the headcodes of locos to reflect what they are pulling.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you appreciated the video Paul and it’s great to have you onboard. Regards Charlie.

[@bryanlane62]

Indeed Paul, like you, I’ve also been saying that about the ability to change headcodes via DCC. I’ve seen a recent article in one of the model railway magazines recently showing working bus blinds, I would’ve thought that would be a good starting point for one of the DCC companies to start producing a changeable digital blind.

[@JamesPetts]

How accurate to be is really a matter of taste. Some people might be quite happy with a Thomas the Tank Engine model hauling a mix of German and US HO scale carriages; I suspect that most would not find that evocative of reality enough to bring joy. Quite how deep into detail that one goes really depends on one's own priorities; I often find that the more that I research and learn about reality, the more accurate that the model needs to be to bring me joy.

[@lassunsschaun6859]

One inhabiting factor for the DCC companies, which normally produce for most railway modelling countrys, to bring changable headcodes, would be that headcodes are a rather british only thing (only other occurrences I knew of would be Compagnie des chemins de fer du Nord with 3.1192 on display in Milhouse still or reconstructed having one and some Réseau express régional d’Île-de-France trains), other countrys got train report number / "Zugnummer" / "numérotation des trains" systems, too but not on the head showing (for example SBB five numbers, DB five numbers, ÖBB three numbers, SNCF two blocks with tree numbers each, ARTC number-letter-letter-number, ...)

[@RobA500]

The head codes could in theory be simulated with micro OLED displays. Obviously the DCC chips would need a new function for controlling said displays but it could be done. The big factor to whether it's really needed is down to cost, I'm sure Hornby would happily develop a locomotive ready to run but at £1000 per unit going by their current prices. Someone else could develop a retro fit able system for those with deep pockets and a certain level of skill that would be required to set up I guess.

[@gjmplod]

Hi Charlie, I used to work in Tyne Yard Gateshead and was in charge of marshaling the engineer trains. The ballast waggons were put together with the ballast wheels facing anyway as the waggons came off different trains. Loaded ones were put into a siding awaiting another job while the empty waggons were put into a different siding to go off to get loaded so the ballast wheels could be facing anyway. On some trains we would have a mixture of dogfish, sealions or seacows. Mermaids were used as well, but these were mainly used at weekends. We used head codes 6P on our ballast trains ie 6P54. Sometimes we would put sharks at both ends of the train. Normal ballast train would consist of 10 to 15 dogfish and a shark or 10 sealions/ seacows and a shark depending on the size of the job. We didn't fit crew vans to our ballast trains as the maintenance gangs would arrange to meet the ballast trains on site and use their own mess vans on site for lunchtime or cups of tea. Hope this helps Gary from County Durham.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Gary, that’s a real gem of a comment thank you so much. Regards Charlie

[@williamgordon207]

A wonderful piece of anorak-ism. So detailed but I feel that’s the detail some of us are looking to achieve. As a boy in the 1980’’s I was very happy just to run random trains around my basic layout. But as a 50yr old boy I now want to create the most accurate layout I possibly can, right down correct headcodes and brake vans. Thank you for addressing this subject Charlie and providing some education for us amateurs.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Every day is a school day William, for us all.

[@Cliffjumper24]

Excuse me for contradicting you a bit Charlie, but the brown or grey colour of the brake van isn't dependent on the brakes of the brake van... because most brake vans were unfitted. The colour related to the 'pipe' passing through the wagon. A brown van would indicate a brake van with a through 'vaccum pipe', where it would have vacuum brake connecters on the bufferbeam of the wagon, but they would go straight through the wagon to a connector on the bufferbeam at the other end, but didn't activated any brakes on the wagon (because they didn't exist). For a grey brakevan, these didn't have any brake pipe connectors at all. The purpose of a brake van was to use the handbrake wheel in the van to keep the couplings taught. For an unfitted train, at the top of a hill, the handbrakes of the wagons would be partially applied, and at the end the brake van would be used to keep the weight of the wagons from pushing the loco down the hill and causing a 'runaway train'. At the bottom of the hill the handbrakes of the wagons would be released, and the brake van would keep the couplings taught so they wouldn't 'snatch' and break. Snatching brakes is caused by the concertina effect, where the slack between each wagon being pulled apart, that energy increases down the train, causing a violent snap towards the end of the train... a force that can break the metal coupling!! It's a lot like a whip... giving a violent shake at the handle end makes the movement energy flow up the length of the rope and causes a powerful flick at the other end, so violent the energy results in a loud snap at the end!! In 1972, BR started using the TOPS system, which used 3-digit code letters to indicate the types of wagons, with the last digit indicating the brakes on the wagons. A = Air Brakes B = Air Brakes and through Vacuum Pipe. O = No Brake (Hand Only), Unfitted. P = No Brake (Hand Only), through Vacuum Pipe only. Q = No Brake (Hand Only), through Air Pipe only. R = No Brake (Hand Only), through Air and Vacuum pipe only V = Vacuum Brakes W = Vacuum Brakes, through Air pipe. X = Dual Vacuum and Air Brakes If we look at your coal wagon from 5:15, under TOPS that would be a MHV... V meaning Vacuum braked. At 6:10, the Grey brake van would become a CAO, O meaning O = No Brake (Hand Only), Unfitted. The brown van would become a CAP No Brake (Hand Only), through Vacuum Pipe only. In the mid 1960's, Ashford works constructed brake vans with through air pipes (pic below). To seperate them from usual brown 'piped' wagons, they were given a yellow panel. Under TOPS, these were coded CAR, R = No Brake (Hand Only), through Air and Vacuum pipe only www.flickr.com/photos/55938574@N03/10036474725/in/photolist-ghTygF Your Shark is from the late 70's/early 80's when engineers wagons were painted in Olive. The TOPS code is a ZUV. Z = Departmental, Two axles (bogie departmental wagons have a 'Y' prefix) U = sub-type V = Vacuum brakes. Regarding your Dogfish, and you referenceing seeing other types in a rake... these are probably Catfish. Catfish are very similar but have shorter hopper bogies, and they only have a single chute for placing ballast in the middle. And here's a photo of a train with the second wagon behind the loco being a Catfish, as is the seventh and the sixth wagon is a Mermaid www.flickr.com/photos/httpwwwpeakdaleworkscom/51643870786/ (The photo may be too modern for your era, but how they were used really didn't change! The Catfish and Mermaid are avilable as models from Cambrian Kits Catfish is kit no. C11 www.eileensemporium.com/materials-for-modellers/product/cambrian-br-catfish-19t-ballast-hopper/category_pathway-4233 Mermaid is kit no. C13 www.eileensemporium.com/materials-for-modellers/product/cambrian-br-14t-mermaid-side-tipping-ballast-wagon/category_pathway-4233 And, of course, the nice thing about kits is that you can have something different to the usual ready-to-run stuff everyone else has... and you can always get the mental buzz of "I made that!" whenever you look at it!! Regarding couplings... I use Kadee's, but Hunt's Couplings magnetic version is probably available for the Dogfish and will be cheaper to fit. Hope that's useful to you! Cheers Laura

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks for this Laura, I thinks that I'll include updates and corrections in my Spring Update. Regards Charlie.

[@tomlawton7087]

I’d been looking for this list, since TTA tankers would appear to be air-braked under this nomenclature. Excellent additional info.

[@rich392117]

Another great video Charlie. The DOGFISH hoppers only had operating wheels at one end, and it didn't matter which way round they were, they would be which ever way the yard put them together. The larger 40ton hoppers (SEALION or SEACOW's) had wheels at both ends as they were split into 6 compartments instead of three (left / middle / right hand side) on the 20ton DOGFISH. The BY van behind the 63xx was a luggage van, and only had a seat for the Guard in it, so not much us as a crew van. In fact the gangs of blokes that operated the hoppers would meet the train at a certain location, and ride out to site on the verandas (with there Tilly lamps) quite a site, but long gone in the modern H&S driven world of today. On the subject of braked / unbraked wagons, also bear in mind that some of the grey un braked wagons were through piped, which meant that whilst the brakes on that vehicle would not operate, a fitted (braked) vehicle behind it could, so like most thing railway related, nothing is straight forward.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

An excellent comment Richard, thank you. I was aware of the through braked wagons, but thought it best to leave that complication for another day! Regards Charlie

[@1952TonyC]

Sorry Charlie, this is a second comment. Your question about number of Gunpowder Vans that can be marshalled in a train, whether they can be formed together and the requirements for barrier vehicles is most timely. My two new Rapido vans arrived today! The 1950’s Rule Book states that, Not more than five vehicles containing explosives must be conveyed by any one train at any one time. Vehicles containing explosives or highly inflammable liquids or liquefied gasses must be marshalled as near the middle of the train as possible and in any case there must be at least two vehicles either empty or containing non-explosive traffic marshalled between the engine and the first vehicle containing explosives or highly inflammable liquids or liquefied gasses, except that for short distances between depots or private sidings and marshalling yards these two vehicles need not be provided. I hope this helps. Tony

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Brilliant Tony, great info and much appreciated.

[@philbartlett7898]

Good stuff Tony. I joined BR in 1978 and hava feeling it had been tightened to just four explosive vans by then. At that time our "goods" 8J23 Bescot-Cambrian ran with mostly vaccy traffic. I used to go through to Pwllheli on Tuesday and would bring the loads back from Penrhydeudraeth. Always barried by two wagons from the loco and another two. By this time it was mostly 12T vanfits, handy because they often worked onto the Cambrian Coast with agricultural products like slag and lime and feedstuffs. In 1979 when Barmouth Bridge was banned to locos we used a DPU to recover all the vac fitted wagons back to Machynlleth for despatch back to Coton Hill. The DPUs were allowed 7 vehicles as tail traffic. I saw one of these trains but sadly never had a camera. Not sure how many trips there were but at least some of the wagons were CXVs. Like you my pair from Rapido are eagerly awaited - maybe tomorrow. I can then put my 8J23 together with my blue Bachmann 24/1 !!

[@1952TonyC]

@@philbartlett7898 nice memories Phil. Old guard stories would make a good book and really useful information for modellers.

[@kiwitrainguy]

Hearing about the Gunpowder vans reminded me of an experience told to me by a fellow worker forty years ago. He was head shunter at a provincial town during WW2. A train of explosives arrived for on-forwarding. But it had not been made up correctly, all the wagons containing the explosives were marshalled together when they had to have an empty vehicle between each one. He and his crew took ages to put it right. The detonators were a seperate consignment on an entirely different train.

[@lordflasheart6801]

The more I watch your excellent productions, the more I realise just how little I know. Fascinating. I too, ventured up in the loft the other day, my better half decided to pop up there too. She didn't use the word "Gosh" however. She stood there gawping at the various rolling stock, all made up into various "trains" and I could tell immediately that she was counting the number of wagons in her head. She disappeared back down the ladder and it was several hours before she uttered a word to me, which I am unable to reproduce here. Fortunately, she didn't see the two cardboard boxes which are both full of stock.....! Great stuff Charlie, as always. Best regards Nige.

[@daviemaclean61]

Ha ha! I am fortunate my wife doesn't like going up loft ladders! Once the latest purchase is safely up there we're in the clear! ;-)

[@whitehorsebricks2670]

Top tip. Leve the cobwebs alone to help make it a wife free zone.

[@vernoncox9598]

@@daviemaclean61 My wife is the same, I've told her that when I've finished "I will let her come up and have a look, but not until then as there's a lot of boxes on the floor". I"ve been at it for the last forty years so the finish line is still quite a way off!

[@worthingtonmodelrailway8628]

Unfortunately once in a while my wife watches my KZbin videos - that’s when the awkward questions start!

[@shanestephens2877]

Let's hope your wife doesn't start checking retail sites for the price of stuff 😅

[@speleokeir]

Well that was educational, lots of stuff I didn't know so thank you Charlie. They do say every day's a school day!😄 Sometimes though I think ignorance is bliss. If I don't know something is 'wrong' then it doesn't worry me as I don't know any better. Once you learn about things in detail then it does start to niggle at me because I can't turn off my awareness that it's incorrect. However I'm also a naturally lazy person so whilst I do tend to like things to be 'correct' there's also a part of me that says 'does it really matter?'. If it's a lot of faff and/or expense to get it right then I don't bother. If it's a relatively simple matter to ensure things are done correctly then I do. I think of it as a sliding scale of correctness vs. faff. It also depends on my levels of patience at the time and skill level.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

What a terrific comment. You are of course right, how these little intricacies affect us is astonishing. Sometimes, it’s who gives a dam, other times it seems vitally important. Fortunately it’s just a hobby! Regards Charlie

[@nigelweir3852]

How did I miss this , learnt more than my little brain can remember, so going back over despite only being in 2 minutes

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Every day is a school day Nigel. Regards Charlie

[@Blue68Camaro]

My wife says "How many trains do you need?", " Do you really need another Locomotive?". I come back and say, "How many sewing machines do you need?, "I can run several trains at once but you can only use 1 machine at a time", "Do you really need more fabric?". We laugh and go on with our hobbies. Interesting video and I learned some new English Railroad terms. Funny we speak the supposed same language but have different words for the same thing.

[@markies5411]

Snap,

[@stephenpike3147]

What a coincidence, same issue here with my wife addicted to quilting; she collects quilting rulers and sewing machine feet just as I do steam and diesel locos! The dcc control systems balance out the sewing machines too. Happy days with our hobbies lol

[@Teesbrough]

Thank you Charlie. Sometimes it’s the simplest things that suddenly make sense. Until now I never knew the difference between grey and bauxite painted wagons. In my naïveté I’d thought it was some time-related corporate livery change.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Every day is a school day Will, for both of us! Regards Charlie

[@mikeking2539]

I did not know that about the colour of the wagons either.

[@peterwalker6535]

Me too. 😀

[@fossil9559]

As you say, every day is a school day , thanx for this Charlie .

[@1952TonyC]

Charlie, another blinder and congratulations on being brave enough to expound on railway rules and regulations. Of necessity the rule book is the playground of pedants because of the potential risks if there is any variance or miscommunication. Therefore, with my hard hat and full protective clothing I venture to make a couple of points of clarification. Although I know what you mean, you said that grey brake vans have no brakes. Obviously, they do not have automatic brakes but do have the guards brake. It also may be worth mentioning that ‘fitted’ BVs have a ‘setter’ which is a facility for the guard to apply the brake throughout the train if necessary. On head codes ‘V’ is inter regional but only heading to the Western Region, not through or out of it. I can’t be one hundred percent certain but if my memory is correct, there is no reason to have a particular orientation of hopper wagons. If working properly, the operative would only get on or off the wagons when at a stand. They will also work in either direction during ballast dropping and so it doesn’t matter which end the wheels are located. I think that this was an inspired choice of subject for your tutorial. More please. Tony

[@middlehilljunction1251]

Brilliant. This is really interesting. I have learnt a lot from this video and your others videos. I absolutely hate the standard couplings first thing I get rid of. It's about time the manufacturers moved away from these. I mainly using Kadee but I have started using the Hunt magnetic coupling and so far on the coaches and the KUA wagons they are very good..

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

A wise move mate. I use Hunts on my HST but worry about their strength on long goods trains, coming up the helix. Regards Charlie

[@unknownrobot2881]

Your Shell/BP tank wagons might not need a barrier wagon because black was used for tank wagons carrying liquids which do not give off inflammable vapour so unlikely to catch fire from sparks. Silver was used for tank wagons carrying inflammable liquids.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Every day is a school day in this game mate. I never knew that, regards Charlie

[@rossnation8092]

Lovely video Charlie. For your ballast train I believe Seaacows and Sealions are the names of the larger hoppers. I know Hornby have modelled the seacow and possibly the sealion but not sure about if they were modelled in engineers olive green but I know they did the Dutch grey. I also believe the only exception in the steam era for formation was the pick up goods services with frequent drops and pickups then you’d see wagons here and there. As for the gunpowder wagons unless in wartime only 5 per train were permitted but like yourself unsure on the barrier wagons. anyways enough waffling on. Thanks for sharing, Ross.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

A great comment Ross and much appreciated. I shall certainly look into the other hopper types. Regards Charlie

[@IronHorseRailways]

Rivets thoroughly counted there, Charlie boy! As for the tension locks and points issue, I've had this a lot... In fact many of my issued have been caused by the stock Couplings that come with stock - seems they only work reliably if you're pulling stock around an oval of track... anything more complex and you encounter issues thus... So for this reason I've experimented with many couplings types, as I see you have also... Kadee, magnets, sprat and winkle - ANYTHING would be better than the stock Couplings...

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

You’re pushing on an open door on this one. I think with this rake I shall use a bar type coupling between the wagons and a KD at either end. Regards Charlie

[@IronHorseRailways]

@@ChadwickModelRailway I like that saying, never heard it before!😁 Look forward to the update anyway! Cheers!

[@locohauledforum]

"And of course these TTA's are vacuum braked..." er, the A stands for air-braked. If they are vacuumed braked then they should be TTV's. On the class 33 the headcode '89' is for a Portsmouth - Bristol passenger service.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Wow, what a pair of “own goals.” Thanks mate.

[@paulhowes8756]

Thanks for the very educational Video this time around Charlie. Needless to say you have just extended my list of things to do on Yeovil Town as I am sure I have the wagons out of order and possibly the wrong guards van on each freight train but like you I need to get them right. I have given a couple of freight trains nicknames e.g. Robbie and The Dutchman - Robbie is the Coal Train and The dutchman is a van train! Weird but as soon as you think about the names you can't get them out of your head. BTW I will need to leave the lamps and head-code issues until I have a lot of time.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

We just add these tasks to our ever increasing list Paul. Regards Charlie.

[@alanmacdonald3rd]

Very much enjoyed learning about British railroads. I didn’t know there were braked and non-braked fitted cars.

[@tomlawton7087]

Charlie, you’re the happiest “sad” person I know, and I’m happy to be infected with that sort of sadness! Thinking of wagons being the right way round, your 9F rake had the end opening in random positions. This is possibly more important than the hoppers having control wheels at alternating ends. Told you it was infectious! 🙄

[@tomlawton7087]

And I see your comment that the end doors fell out of favour as other unloading methods were adopted.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Yes Tom, this damn railway modelling malarkey, is truly infectious. Regards Charlie

[@andrewpalm2103]

A very interesting video, Charlie! Even though I'm a US model railroader, for some reason I tend to watch more model and prototype railway videos from the UK. Go figure. However, I was quite unaware of the color coding of goods vans for the presence of air brakes. And here unit trains of flammable loads such as ethanol have buffer cars at both ends, usually a covered hopper such as a grain car. (Having a buffer at both ends avoids shunting when the train is reversed.) On my own layout, although it is freelance I try to keep the equipment true to its early 60's time frame and follow prototype practices. But that is a choice made for my own enjoyment (and OCD). Cheers from Wisconsin!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Andrew, and you guys clearly use barrier wagons over there too. Regards Charlie

[@beeble2003]

BTW, British railways were mostly using vacuum brakes, rather than air brakes, at the time these colour codes were in use.

[@TheRapidGamer]

24:30 "Dogfish", more like "Dogsh!@t" engineering

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Yes it is rather sad. Regards Charlie

[@Hal-Zuzzu_Model_Railway]

Re. which way should one face the wagons. Personally, because of my OCD, they all face the same way and I apply rule 1 :) Other than that, I learn a few things from this video :) Thanks.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks mate, I’m so pleased that you found it useful.

[@DOCTORDROTT]

Mermaids and whales were also within the consist . Also excavators on Loriet wagons . Caterpillar 951 A 's with side tip bucket . I am currently restoring a full size version kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2fVp5yKj9ilpLc

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Great info James. She’s a real beast. regards Charlie

[@medwaypeninsulaMR]

Hi Charlie - That was a great video which I learnt a lot from - Excellent. But couplings ....... don't get me started on that subject !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheers Kev

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I couldn’t agree more mate. They are a complete nightmare!

[@old_duffers_chuffers]

Hi Charlie, I just been rewatching video 155 and spotted 3 link NEM coupling between the Gunpowder wagons. Can you tell me where you got them from. Regards _ Andy C

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Please google James train parts. Regards, Charlie

[@JLfromEdinburgh1951]

I think freight train marshalling is a subject on which I probably do have a little expertise, though, with the exception of yourself, it's probably knowledge that's of little interest to most people today. It certainly won't get me a job nowadays! I joined the railway service in 1970, and around 1972 I became a Guard, overwhelmingly working goods trains. For the first year or so I was at Cadder Marshalling Yard, between Lenzie and Bishopbriggs on the Edinburgh and Glasgow main line. After about a year at Cadder, I moved to Sighthill, a freight depot in Springburn in Glasgow. I worked as a Guard from Sighthill until 1980 when I became staff clerk there. I later moved (still as staff clerk) to Bridgeton Central, by then closed as a passenger station, but still operating as a depot for the North Side Glasgow electric trains. (The "Blue Trains") (I left the railway service in 1982.) In my time as a Guard I acquired something of a reputation for being an expert on the Freight Trains Loads Book, which specified (by locomotive class) the maximum tonnage and minimum brake force required to work various classes of train over various routes. By the 1970s the loads book had got very complicated, and I'm sure quite a few railwaymen, inspectors as well as guards, didn't fully understand it. I have so much I an say on this subject that I really don't think I can manage it all in one post, but I'll try to make a start today: - Firstly about brake vans: Some time before I became a guard, and probably before I joined the railway, BR removed the vacuum brake fittings from almost all freight brake vans. I think it was around 1968 when the Freightliners started, and it was to persuade guards on fully fitted freight trains to ride in the back cab rather than in a brake van. The brake vans were still painted bauxite rather than grey, but all they had inside was an open-ended metal pipe where the brake valve and gauge had once been. The vacuum hoses (or "bags" as we called them in Scotland) were also removed from the ends of the van. So after about 1968 most brake vans (regardless of colour) were unfitted and should carry sidelamps, as the van was unfitted even the rest of the train was fully braked. By the way (and I don't know if you can do this on a model) when you were running on a slow line, or standing in a loop, next to a main line, you were supposed to remove the red slide from sidelamp next to the main line, so that it showed a white light in both directions on that side. This was so that the driver of a train approaching on the main line wouldn't think that he was running into the back of you. Train classification: You seem to be aware that at some time (probably in the 1960s) the classification of trains by letters was changed to classification by numbers. So your Class A Express Passenger train became a Class 1 Express Passenger train, etc. In addition to that, they occasionally changed the meanings of the various classes. As the railway modernised, more and more trains were fully-fitted. As I recall the classification when I was a guard in the 1970s was: Class 1 - Express Passenger Train Class 2 - Ordinary Passenger Train Class 3 - Newspaper, Parcels of other train composed of non-passenger carrying coaching stock. Class 4 - Freightliner or Express Freight Train authorised to run at at least 75 m.p.h. Class 5 - Empty Coaching Stock Train Class 6 - Fully-fitted Express Freight Train Class 7 - Partially Fitted Express Freight Train with a Brake Force not less than specified in the Freight Train Loads Book Class 8 - Partially Fitted Freight Train with a Brake Force not less than specified in the Freight Train Loads Book Class 9 - Unfitted Freight Train (only where authorised) Class 0 - Light Engine or Engine and Brake Van That's all from memory, so I wouldn't swear to it in a court of law! The one I'm least sure of is the Class 3. It may have said that the train had to be capable of running at 90 m.p.h. but I cant remember. I think I only ever worked one class 3 train (a newspaper train from Carlisle to Glasgow Central). There were also a few special cases like a breakdown train going to clear the line, or a light engine going to assist a disabled train would run as class 1. (To digress a little, I well remember an example of the latter. We had a class 47 diesel, and were told our booked working was cancelled and we were to go light engine to Yoker. I assumed we were going to get a train of coal to Ravenscraig, which was the usual reason for being sent to Yoker. But, when we got to Cowlairs Junction, we got a green light through the junction, right across the main line and up the branch towards Possilpark. This was unheard of. The driver said, "Someone's broken down and we're going to assist them." He was right. A "blue train" had failed near Scotstounhill. That could be one reason for showing the wrong headcode. We didn't know we were running Class 1 till we kept getting green lights!) May I just leave it at that for just now? I've got to get on with other (less interesting) things. Hope this is of interest. I'll post again in a few days.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thank you so much JL for such an enlightening comment. The train classifications were indeed somewhat changeable! I tend to use head codes from photos to ensure that I’m on the right track! Stay safe mate, regards, Charlie

[@mikeuk1954]

A fascinating video of freight. I'd be one of those members who just turned up and ran anything! 🤣 My layout which is named 'Whatif' is really an extension of my desire to run any train from anywhere! 😉 I guess my rules and to hell with real world!! 🤣 Great video and I learned so much..

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Mike.However, as they say it’s your layout, your rules. Regards Charlie

[@standclear502]

Uk Railway Stock variations Not at all charlie i value the quest for realism in modelling and prototypical operation, After all its what sets us apart as serious modellers apposed to adults playing with toys. Other points to consider the Era we are modelling Important to consider the Correct Engine type pulling the Appropriate braked stock, _____ Vacuum brakes introduced in the mid-1860s. pre 1970s BR locomotives were originally Vacuumed braked Post 1990s most BR locomotives where converted to Air braking system Example you would not have an earlier vac brake loco pulling later Air braked stock To further step into the quagmire some locos and stock were fitted with duel braking systems. Heres you next video suggestion charlie What locos can prototypically pull what stock As always thanks for creating this Informative content for us all to enjoy! S.C. 😉

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

A great comment SA. However, it’s even more complicated when you consider that some wagons were through piped!

[@ArcadiaJunctionHobbies]

Because everything in this hobby will always been a compromise to some degree, these days I approach the trains I run as something akin to an Impressionist painting of the prototypes. In that I do try my best to keep them 'realistic' with a small 'r' and this works for me. It is about fun at the end of the day. But having said that I found this video very useful as I can do this with the stock I already have and no sweating or expense. So thank you.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you found the video useful mate. Regards Charlie

[@mrbluesky2050]

NEM sockets, the ( potential ) bain of a modellers life, PLEASE model producers, remember that they should be at a standard height..... and NOT wobble up and down. I generaly cut them off and body mount Kaydee's that cured the several Dogfish I had. talking of ballst wagons, there are.... catfish, walrus, whale, seacow & lion, grampus, mermaids rudd, clam ( a bit modern) and don't forget, a shark ( or two) could get marshalled anywhere in the consist. and if you think getting people to arrange brak fitted stock is difficult, try telling some-one that, NO, you can't stack two twenty-foot ISO containers on top of a forty foot one....... after the tenth telling, I gave up.... I guess he's still doing it, luckily in model form, and not at Felixstowe.....

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

A great comment Richard, thanks very much these British couplings reduced me to tears!

[@tagsdm]

Very informative. While I understand the grey vs. bauxite wagons, surely this situation must have made the marshalling of wagons a trying task. Not only fitted vs. unfitted, but wagons going to specific industries or stations would want to be shunted together, I'd think. Weren't some wagons equipped with through pipes to allow the brake van to be fitted? What a tangle! I really wonder if the railways would assemble 16t mineral wagons together with 5 or 7 plank wood mineral wagons. I'm modelling the post-war through early crest time period over here in the states for many years. I do all my modelling virtually. Many Thanks!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Yes the modelling of these wagons is a nightmare, and sadly when you look at the details in books the pictures are in black-and-white! Regards Charlie

[@williamgunning4184]

Well done Charlie, a very difficult subject to explain as photographic evidence of real trains is a minefield. The number of vacuum fitted wagons connected to the engine could not exceed the ability of the engine to maintain the vacuum in the pipe, working instructions in the rule book covered this. A partly fitted GWR train could not exceed 70 wagons with a minimum of 24 and maximum of 35 connected to the brake line, obviously not applicable to model railways but say in a 18 wagon train between 8 and 11 should be connected. Now to get really sad, the GWR fruit van at the back is a fitted type as it is marked XP, also the conflat. Instanter couplings were not intended for use on unfitted stock and where required 3 link couplings were used when coupling them to an instanter or screw coupling equipped wagon, local pick up and branch trains were marshalled regardless of brakes to suit shunting requirements and run as unfitted. On some GWR later BR(W) branch lines where the passenger, mixed and goods trains worked just a short branch it was common to see just a single lamp in the light engine position, typically autotrains. So when you run your branch line it doesn't really matter what goes where in the train.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Great info, Williams. Since making this video, I have been re-briefed, several times! As you say, it’s a minefield that we are all here to learn, every day is a school day. Regards, Charlie

[@medwaymodelrailway7129]

Nice update you done thanks for sharing.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

You’re most welcome mate, regards Charlie

[@medwaymodelrailway7129]

@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks Charlie

[@dakdak7609]

Thank you Sir. I feel I need a wall poster for lamp positions for both locos and guards vans. I remember your video on fitting lighting to a guards van, now it seems we need a few with different set ups. And if we change a 9F from pulling wagons to helping out on the passenger lines, how do we change the lamps?

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

So true Dak Dak, life is a real worry! Regards Charlie.

[@phastphlyer4494]

As ever informative & educational but regarding trains of fitted/Unfitted wagon you state" if you had a train of Bauxite (fitted) wagons, but one grey (unfiited) at the front then nothing would be braked" is, in the case of vacuum system, not true. As the fitted wagons brakes would be permanently on as the vacuum having been 'Destroyed' by not having been connected to a vacuum source i.e the loco. The vacuum system was designed that way in case of 'Breakaways' so that the brake would be automatically applied.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Okay, so am I correct in thinking that a vacuum fitted wagon must be connected to a vacuum source?

[@charlesemerson6763]

Heljan are not the only ones guilty of droopy couplings, Dapol are much the same and I've had a few Oxford Rail wagons in a similar condition. Another thing is coaches. Bachmann coaches dont like to be coupled to Hornby coaches and vice versa'and on some locomotives the coupler heights vary dramatically. So if you fit Kadee's couplers you end up with a height mismatch. There used to be a standard but I think that's gone out the window.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I totally agree Charles, couplings are an absolute nightmare. Regards Charlie

[@ingor.522]

Hello Charlie, Your hopper cars made shorts by the metal hook couplers when going onto turnouts, why not using the older Fleischmann NEM 362 Hook Couplers, they are compatible to your british Hook Couplers? About the service platforms of the hoppers, well they are coupled together for a more efficiency work by unloading the hopper cars in shorter time. If the car platforms would be not coupled together, than the service worker are in need to leave the car's platform and climbing onto the next car's platform an so on. When doing it by slow moving train it is a very dangerous job and it happened lot of accidents in the past by slipping out workers by rainy or foggy days when the slippery is much more bigger onto wet, oily steel. Some workers lost their feet or legs when having accidents of slow moving trains by slipping out. The distance between the lowest car step and the track ballast is around ¾ of a metre. Older wooden Ties or Steel Ties are very slippery when being wet by badly weather conditions of jumping from lowest car step into the track ballast and hitting the Ties with their feet. Normally a ballast train should stop before workers do leave service platforms and entering another platform but this takes lot of time, so most railway workers do risk their lifes by jumping down and up by slow moving train. I had been worked for the eastern german railway in the early 1990's and did some experiences on permanant way department trains by ballasting new track with unloading two axle hopoer cars...our hopper cars had been coupled with platforms together. We gave signal by mouth pipe to the shunting loco to stop the train for unloading the hoppers in position and doing movements until the hopper was empty. We could easily entering the next service platform to unload the next car, before the train stopped and we could leave the platform and going to the overnext car and entering the platform again. It was a very dangerous job onto foggy, snowy or raining days and during night hours in darkness.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

An excellent comment Ingo. I was aware of the shorting problem with the hook that hangs down, I just wanted to make the point of poor design.

[@glennwood1119]

Hello Charlie. I love these British-Canadian locomotives and cars!!! I Feel that our USA locos are too plain-Jane and boring. I may feel this way due to the fact that I was a WWII baby being born in Stilton England.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

An interesting observation Glenn. We are what we are, regards Charlie

[@oceanfroggie]

Never mind counting rivets Charlie the brake van didn't have a tail lamp! Shock horror modelling world traumatised by leading luminary's omission :) Great video as ever. This channel is excellent.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks OF, it’s great to have you onboard. Regards Charlie

[@martinpattison1567]

You can get treatment on the NHS for this disorder. I have to say that I never knew about the reason why Guards/Brake vans were Brown or Grey, now I do. What about the red solebar on the Tankers is it to show that they have vacuum brakes? By the way, there is a rivet missing on the smoke deflector on the Schools class loco. Martin. (Thailand) Thank you, Charlie, for the information.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Martin, how can you do this to me! Now I have to go hunting for tankers!

[@beeble2003]

17:46 That conflat is bauxite, so it's braked, isn't it? Very interesting video, though -- I never knew about the grey/bauxite unbraked/braked distinction.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

You are of course right it is braked. I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it mate. Regards Charlie

[@chriswilson2431]

Charlie, your videos teach me something without fail, every time I watch one. I’m ashamed to admit I didn’t realise the colour of the wagons had a connection to they’re brake fitment. You are a font of information and I’m so glad I found your channel. I hope you’re keeping well, it sure looks like you are.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

What a heartwarming comment Chris, you’re too kind mate.

[@chrisbenefield9889]

Google Heljan coupler droop and a number of solutions involving shims, gluing the NEM pocket and coupling replacement can be found. But you would have thought that Heljan would have resolved this by now rather than continuing to spoil model after model.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I couldn’t agree more Chris, it’s a dreadful situation.

[@stormbowman7148]

It's all fun and games until someone installs the wrong headlamps or put the wagons in a wrong order... 😂 Nah, I'm with you. I find it rewarding to actually model real prototypical trains. For me the research is part of the fun.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

We clearly seen from the same song sheet mate. Regards, Charlie

[@user-eb8ld6kn8t]

V educational Charlie. As usual there are 'exceptions' to the rule and it was not uncommon for mixed freight rakes to include fitted and unfitted stock where trains often ran completely unfitted to speed up operations and given the crew a longer break! Hence you could have the scenario of bauxite vehicle following grey vehicles and vice versa. More common for branch line freight where rakes were built based on order of planned drop offs

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

An excellent comment, and most useful to us all. Regards, Charlie

[@uk-jackie]

hi charlie just some info for you ballast wagons on BR in the 1960 catfish, dogfish (the ones you have), trout, herring (including the GWR version), mackerel, whales and walrus there are 2 types of brakes ploughs sharks and oysters enter any of the names in to google for more information on each wagon hope this helps you . both the seacow and the sealion wagons were not built until after 1981 PS there would not be a crew van on the train the PW personnel would travel in the brake van if there was one or with the guard in the loco but more often than not meet the train on site

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Great info Jackie, thank you very much indeed. Regards Charlie

[@mmsmits2868]

As model railroaders, we're all familiar with the concept of selective compression. There's nothing wrong with seeking a reasonable level of selective accuracy.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

We sing from the same song sheet on this one MMS. Regards Charlie

[@georgecowley3972]

Hi Charlie, I always thought the pipes dangling from buffer beams on wagons were vacuum lines but your grey unfitted wagons have the pipes still, is this just because they use the same tooling for different wagons or are the pipes something else? Cheers, George

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

They could also be through piped George. That is they allowed a vacuum to pass straight through even though they have no brakes themselves. Regards, Charlie

[@JintySteam1]

I like how in a previous "reading your comments" video you told someone to get a life for criticising about how trains didn't have correct head codes, didn't have tail lights etc. 😆

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I do know the video you’re referring to, but the Gentlemans criticism in the article is somewhat more disenchanting too enthusiastic comrades. Regards Charlie

[@danielwalker2613]

A quick tip for you Charlie. The derailment at 23:58 can be avoided by snipping off the vertical piece and making it level with the coupling. It takes seconds to do with a good pair of wire cutters and does not affect the running. ..... I've done it to all my rolling stock. .I hope this helps ?

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I understand your point Daniel, however the couplings are simply poorly designed. Regards Charlie

[@davedandell]

Wow, hate to say it you guys need to go with North American knuckle couplers. Yikes, I just said blasphemy to you Brits.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Yes, we are forced into replacing couplings with almost every purchase!

[@MalcolmMarks-c6k]

In Vi ctoriia yes ,a barrier wagon between each wagon and no more than five in a train. The barrier wagons must not be loaded with anything flammable.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Sensible regulation indeed. Regards, Charlie.

[@donsharpe5786]

Charlie, wash your mouth out. I heard you say prototypical. The container wagon was bauxite and should be fitted. Barrier wagons for fuel tankers were normally 2 in number and they also had barrier wagons between the fuel tankers and the brake van.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Great comments Don. I think the barrier wagon by the guards van, was there not to protect the guards, but to allow the train to reverse. Regards Charlie

[@philnewstead5388]

I don't think it's sad at all. As far as I'm concerned each to their own, the thing that drives me mad is incorrect rolling stock with the wrong loco for example I saw at the last exhibition a Deltic prototype hauling a rake of Gresley teams which looked to my eyes very odd. I did one start looking into headcodes but I must admit I gave up the will to live after a while. I have learnt from your video about the formation of goods trains so now I will have to go and reconfigure some of my freight trains so thanks for giving me something else to worry about. Seriously though I am trying to trecreate what I remember from growing up so as you said at the start rule 1 applies and if it looks right to me then that's good enough for me but it's really going to bug me now about the configuration of my freights until I get them sorted.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Phil, but in all honesty let’s not take these things too seriously. Regards Charlie

[@daviemaclean61]

While we're "counting rivets", I was a tad concerned at the run away 9F with no crew! However, I'm not going to tell you about the 16t mineral I accidentally put the white stripe on the wrong end of, and still haven't fixed, for fear you'll have an attack of the vapours! Always interesting and informative. Cheers

[@daviemaclean61]

If your ballast train is going to remain a fixed rake I can heartily recommend Hunt couplings. I'm slowly converting all my stock over to them. I can't stand tension locks, even the smaller modern ones

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Excellent comment Davie. I’m unsure about using hunts on this train, as I’m unsure of the finished weight and whether the magnetic couplings will stay attached when coming up the Helix. Regards Charlie

[@tomlawton7087]

@@ChadwickModelRailway Charlie, you are in the ideal situation to fit a converter wagon with Hunts, and then run longer (normally coupled) trains up your helix to test for breakaway lengths. I shall look forward to the video on that. I plan to use a Hunt Elite as the central coupling of my tube train (for ease of handling) which has two “locomotives” and so has the risk of separation from momentary power loss in the rear section.

[@JintySteam1]

I've found in the past that a teeny weenie bit of blu tack works wonders for changing the head codes of trains. Its simple but effective and if done right you don't even notice the blu tack.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Now there’s something I never thought of. Regards Charlie

[@kalicom2937]

What a cracking vid! Genuinely went Ohhhh! as the penny dropped about the headcode disks....

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you found it interesting mate. Regards Charlie

[@johnmellars6647]

Nice Charlie, and interesting! I always enjoy your sense of humor too! I have N scale so many days I am just happy when everything runs smoothly and stays on the rails, never mind backing long trains. So whatever order they are in is fine!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Rest assured John, I know the feeling, sometimes we just need to be grateful!

[@steveparker1240]

Hi Charlie Great channel I have run ballast on these types of wagons, 1st things is you dont get off a moving train to move to another wagon and 2nd i have never seen a messing coach on a ballast train but i started on the railway in 1983 so they could have had them prior

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

No you’re right Steve. On further investigation there was no supporting coach etc. regards Charlie

[@alecwillis1073]

Never had a clue it was so scientific. Great information show. Well done and thanks. Now I know where to stick my gun powder vans, if you pardon the phrase ;)

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks Alec, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie

[@nigelweir3852]

As not up on these things , it is quiet confusing but worth while studying , ps drooping couplings are a nuisance , just in from seeing similar problem with my own stock of Bachman wagons on points . The hunt coupling system looks like a way to solve this in some cases

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m with you on the coupling problem Nigel.

[@petermayes1750]

great video.the club i attend has a few ex br staff who are not always right ,complicated stuff they tell me.early diesel freight bauxite and grey unfitted fitted not mixing very informative, need to alter some of my rakes thanks again.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Every day is a school day for us railway modellers mate. Regards Charlie

[@michaelfeldman-budarick9295]

I know from research the conflat wagons were vacum braked because they were used on the condor fast freight on the midland region, the conflat didn't really need to be moved back but i dont want to be horrible or smart alec 😔 its your layout charlie and your trains i wish i could build a layout as amazing as yours

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

You’re dead right Michael, I should know better. Regards Charlie.

[@johngibson4641]

Hi Charlie,, you called the engine on the ballast train that you called it a class 21 yet it has a different number on the side of the engine itself ,, why is this so as over here in Australia we have the class of the engine on the side and on the front of them .. Is any chance you can explain why (or anyone else for that matter) this is so as I have notced the same on a lot of English sites that say the same thing. Cheers from John in Australia

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi John, with today’s trains they do carry their class number before their individual number. For example a class 86 loco with a number 32 would be 86032. However, before 1973 I believe, the locomotive class was never mentioned. Therefore all numbering had no real plan .Class 52s for example started 10**.

[@beckster181]

In my time with HO i always found brass wheels were a pain with always being dirty where possible on locos I would switch them or something else which made all the locos run OK . As for the coupler sagging this is more a simple result of the mas produced wagons and the size o the hole used to mount the couplers with most couplers being a snap in design if the hole is above a certain size the coupler will sag. Before the days of so many choices for replacing couplers the most reliable way to fix the problem was to remove the lower part of the hook which would foul the points etc. This would mean that you could not in a realistic way uncouple these waggons or coaches but you would have to do in blocks so you might have a train of 10 wagons which were made up of 2 x 5 wagon sections that you would drop at different places so the couplers would not matter. Before Kadees were easy to get here in Australia my biggest problem was that hornby stuff came with the huge bar and hook coupler Lima stuff came with a small hook and bar similar to what is now a standard fitting and anything else would come with a coupler that was a standard where it was mainly sold so anything from the US had a hook and horn setup similar to a plastic non movable type of Kadee coupler. With the mix of wagon and loco and coach stock designs used here it was hard to get semi realistic looking trains made up because of these coupler differences. In the end i would often remove the couplers and make up either a solid bar coupling which was attached to each wagon and they were perminantly attached and set them in groups of about 5 wagons with a single standard type of coupler between the groups. The other problem was trying to run diferent locos as we had some made to a more US design in desiels and the older steam types were a mix of US and UK stylesso to model them it was often a case f getting a US model and making the first wagon behind the loco have what i called a converter setup where it matcked the US srtyle on one end and the other end had the for me standard coupler on the other end. This was fine with short goods wagons where the couplers were itted to the wagon frame but with the larger coaches and longer wagons as is more typical here as in the US most companies mount the couplers to the frames of the wheel sets which made mods harder to do as if you mounted a coupler on the end of an 86 oot wagon on any tight curved layout they would pull eachother off the rails in spetacular fashon. Once Kadees became easy to get though not cheap this was a god send as in time you could switch most stuf to them but you always had to check the uncoupling bars for height or you would have the same problem with them hooking the points or crossings. In my opnion the best way to go with what is available on the market these days would be to change as many as possible to the Hunt coupler type system where they are magnetic this may make problems with realistic drop and pickup services but it stops point /crossing fouling

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Sound advice BB. My current plan is to use a solid bar to couple of wagons together with KD is every five wagons or so. Regards Charlie

[@jeffreysutcliffe1139]

Extremely educational. One of the best videos to date. Also liked the comment from Gateshead🤙

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Jeffrey, it was certainly interesting to put the video together. Regards, Charlie

[@lesliegprice6652]

Is not feasible to just file a bit of the coupling away so it doesn't snag on the points after all the ballast wagons will be coupled together semi permanently ?

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Leslie, the problem comes when shunting, the current couplings duck under each other. This adds to the problem so I thought I would use a solid bar coupling as it’s a fixed rate within the train. Regards Charlie

[@grahamthompson6622]

Thanks Charlie for a very informative video. To misquote Donald Rumsfeld, I knew that I didn't know much about freight trains (still goods trains to me) but I didn't know how much I didn't know. I shall now have to re-marshall and re-light my various aggregate, coal, fast fish, fast fruit, oil, milk and mixed goods stock. Quite a task that will keep me busy for a while.

[@vernongardner1958]

Brilliant video Charlie. Thank you so much for the very informative video. I didn't release that grey was un-braked and bauxite was braked. My first layout is steam and will be based between SECR, SR and BR times so will have mixed freight and some un-braked and braked. Now, thank s to you I know a bit about ordering them. One question - does the hydraulic braking work the same as lorries or opposite to lorries, i.e. does the pressure apply the brakes or release the brakes? From this video I'm assuming that the hydraulics apply the brakes. In terms of future subjects, please can you do something on the different types of passenger stock? I find the coding and types a nightmare!! I'm sure you could explain it in simple terms. :-) Finally, good luck with the club. I was hoping to join the West Camel club for a few years before we moved. I visited in early 2020 and then we had Covid.... and now I've moved and am finding out about clubs near me in Hampshire. :-) Many thanks and best wishes, Vernon

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Vernon, yes I do intend to make a video regarding coaching stock. With vacuum and airbrake stock, it can be disabled for operations such as shunting. Regards Charlie

[@vernongardner1958]

@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks Charlie. 🙂

[@wolvertoncentresidings5676]

Charlie, great video as always. Regarding couplings you have some options as your dog fish wagons appear to be nem pocket fitted. I'd suggest cutting the drop bars off or fitting hunt elite magnetic couplings if you run it as a fixed rake. I was going to suggest kadees but with the droop you'll probably have the same issues. As for head codes. Well thankfully I model modern image!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m unsure whether I will yet use Hunt or a solid bar to cup of the wagons. But I will certainly use KD couplings on the ends. Regards Charlie

[@njhffc1]

Ive the same problem with my dogfish wagons couplings… annoying! Any suggestions how to cut the drop bar on the tension couplings please? Another good video even as a lifelong ex railwayman I learnt a number of things! Cheers Nick

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

All will be revealed on Friday!

[@rocknroll527]

Very interesting and educational video, looks like investing in a few railroad books.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

It’s a great subject to research. Regards Charlie

[@TheSonofruss]

On my side of the pond we still put barrier cars on both ends of any flammable or toxic substances

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

And it seems to be a good idea, which we have moved away from. Regards Charlie

[@platformten5958]

Wow, just when I thought quantum mechanics was the ultimate in brain damage. You're a naughty boy Charlie Bishop, playing with people's sanity. Your channel should come with a government health warning. Now, where did I put that box of paracetamol?

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Every day is a school day mate, regards Charlie

[@platformten5958]

You're not wrong there. Great education for us anoraks. I've always paid more attention to the loco side of the hobby, and never gave freight much thought. It's a good job you're here mate. All the best, Paul.

[@henrybest4057]

Regarding the ballast wagon's control wheels. If the wagons are 'the wrong way round', how would they turn them? Turntables are few and far between. Also, remember that the train, when discharging ballast, is moving very slowly (usually at walking pace or slower). An operative can just hop off of one wagon and wait until the next wagon's operating (control wheels) end comes slowly by to hop on. No walking needed, except, at the end of operations, to get back to the crew wagon to get their cuppa! Don't worry if they're higgledy-piggledy, but if it really bothers you, you could muster all the 'left handers' at one end of the train and all the 'right handers' at the other... Or use "the hand of god" to turn them.😀

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

An interesting comment Henry. I’ve had a couple of message from Ex ballast staff. And they are convinced that they were neither one way or the other. Regards Charlie

[@henrybest4057]

@@ChadwickModelRailway I'm not a railway worker, so cannot give any evidence for what I wrote. I simply applied logic to what I have seen on YT and IRL.

[@mytinplaterailway]

Excellent film. All this knowledge adds to the enjoyment and interest. Each train has a narrative. I fully understand those who are happy to break the rules, but it always seems odd to me to not know what rules you are breaking. I would be very happy if you did more films like this. Thanks.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I shall certainly add this type of topic to the list. Regards Charlie

[@martinrandall3735]

Useful stuff to know, as much as I stick with Rule 1 quite a bit I'll at least put my fitted wagons at the front of the train now. It's videos like this and the DCC ones that make a difference. Educational without being overly complex about matters.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks Martin, that’s very kind of you to say so.

[@rogerofrhodri]

If you like it right so be it,it's your game,your set up have it the way you want.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Great advice Roger. Regards Charlie

[@thebritfarmer]

The tension locks on the dogfish are cranked. Do you have any straight ones to try ?

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m going to replace them with a solid bar. Then they can be shunted.

[@80srenaissance67]

Situation....more like fraud

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m still puzzled!

[@shanestephens2877]

Everyday is a school day, I had no idea re the the bauxite colour wagons or the tail lamp positions on a guards van. + the reason for the barrier vehicle on early diesel locos. One question which I can't find the answer to anywhere is why we're so many ballast wagons named after fish or sea/fish connection ?

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I have no idea either Shane. But I’m on the case!

[@JLfromEdinburgh1951]

​@@ChadwickModelRailway These were telegraphic codewords, and the idea was to use obscure words that would not be likely to be used with their everyday meanings in a railway telegram. Using these codewords helped to keep telegrams short and succinct. I think a lot of the ones for wagons were originally thought up by old Great Western Railway. Somebody must have thought up the idea of naming various types of engineers' wagons after various types of aquatic life. I remember sturgeons, salmons, dogfish, catfish, sharks and mermaids! A few of these words, like Toad and Syphon have come into general use among enthusiasts, but I'm afraid most are now only accessible to a dwindling number of aging former railway employees. I used to have a copy of this codes book, but I'm afraid I've lost it. I rather hope someone has published these railway telegraphic codes online! Some time (I think in the late 70's) the railway ran out of spare copies of its telegraphic code book. Rather than reprint it, they decided that, with more modern forms of communication available, there was no longer a need for these codes. Sad in a way! Until then we used to get lots of telexes from the Movements Office, invariably concluding with the words: CONTROL CREOLE TO DESTINATION. WALNUT REDE.

[@michaelh6064]

Hi Charlie, Thanks for another great video. I really enjoyed this one. Not having lived or worked around the time of these wagon operations I have been looking for information like this. Just found a good book about it too. Your explanations were great. 👍

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks Michael, that’s somewhat reassuring. Regards Charlie

[@arthurmatthews9321]

It gets even more complicated when you start mixing vacuum and air braked stock. Some wagons are vacuum braked but through piped for air. some locomotives are dual braked , air vacuum, and some are air only. Also locomotives can be dragged dead in train either braked or un braked. Knowing were to put everything so you have brake continuity is something of an art form.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

That might just be a step too far for my channel Arthur, regards Charlie

[@worthingtonmodelrailway8628]

Great Video Charlie..... BUT.... While the generalization that Bauxite wagons were vacuum braked is true for certain eras, lots of grey unbraked wagons were eventually re-painted bauxite, and looking at models you will find (and Hornby are a major culprit) plenty of Bauxite wagons with no vacuum brakes!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Great info mate, thank you very much regards Charlie

[@SeatedViper]

Yet another great clip, Charlie. I imagine you might agree with the "Sam's Trains" verdict about Dapol couplings as well as these Heljan ones. I have Kadees almost all round on my stock - only the set rake for the pw train still has hook and bar within it. Keep them coming, young man!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Yes Peter, they are a poor excuse for a coupling. I shall replace them into a fixed rake eventually. Regards Charlie

[@sixsmallwheels5104]

Does the wagon being one color and gaveling brakes apply to on BR

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Most certainly. Regards Charlie

[@danielwalker2613]

I can't find the video now regarding the colour of tank wagons ? .... In answer to your question, it depends solely on the fuel company and what livery and image they prefer !! - Mobil use grey, Murco use red, white and blue, Shell/BP use black, and BP use green. ... You are correct with the one brand fuel rake as so many modelers get this wrong by pulling a varied assortment of different company wagons.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Daniel, you’re correct regarding tank of colours back in the 60s, however in later years they did change completely. Heavy oil is used black tankers whereas petrol tended to use silver or grey. The petrols also had red soul bars. Regards Charlie

[@danielwalker2613]

@@ChadwickModelRailway Grey tanks don't always have a red sole bar and not solely for petrol. The newer BP livery is green with a yellow sole bar. Charringtons used grey tanks for their heavy fuel oil.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Yes Daniel, sadly I was focused on 1968-1972 when things were considerably different. Regards Charlie

[@GGS1956]

Very interesting, and not sad at all. If we are modelling, we may as well get it right

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Every day is a school day if you’re a railway modeller. Regards Charlie

[@ianstrachan7668]

Every day is a school day! Learnt a good bit more, so thank you Charlie. I noticed one of the grey wagons at the back of one rake of wagons would be unbraked (?) but the wagon had brakes in the moulding chassis. Is this just the model maker being lazy at leaving the brakes off grey wagons and adding it to brown ones.....or me being daft? I enjoy hearing about the background of how trains were run by the railway. Barrie Davis gives info on the running of trains too - it all comes together to help make things, perhaps, more 'prototypical.

[@stevelomas4119]

Every wagon on the system had brakes..the grey example you quote being one of them, these brakes were hand operated only as opposed to through piped air or vacumn brakes.

[@ianstrachan7668]

@@stevelomas4119 thanks. Of course - that makes sense..I'd not thought of that!

[@LordInter]

wow how delayed was that dmu waiting for all those freight trains 😂

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

There must have been a driver’s strike.

[@dbrhall]

Hello Charlie, As a helping hand, here in Spain and Portugal, usually, all gravel and ballast cars are usually split in pairs (kindly search "Tolvas Duo") in which you would usually get a buffer to buffer unit with no discharge wheels and also the opposite. Therefore you would always work in an Abba abba abba composition. Keep well and best regards. D

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks, that’s very interesting David. Regards Charlie

[@ngaugefouroaksstreetstatio6932]

Hi Charlie, we recently got an Irish setter pup my daughters and wife picked the name and out of 4 names they picked "Charlie". He is a really good dog. Enjoyed the video as always and learned a lot.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I can only wag my tail in agreement mate. Regards Charlie

[@tomlawton7087]

@@ChadwickModelRailway you must be barking, Charlie! 🙄

[@josefbuckland]

Happy wife happy life. Personally I would dab a drop of something to take that high kelvin modern LED down to something a smidge warmer and prototypical of the day. Also would help diffuse like fresnel. Great video getting your rakes/consists right is a finer art or to everyone else just more sheer lunacy. ALL ABOARD!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Good point Josef. Regards Charlie.

[@Sandlingjunction]

I enjoyed that Charlie, and learned a lot cheers Paul at Sandling Junction

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks Paul. I’m at Ally Pally on Sunday if you’re around.

[@Sandlingjunction]

@@ChadwickModelRailway Id, love to be, sadly tested positive last week so no going anywhere lol, we will get together I am sure of it chum, enjoy the show. cheers Paul

[@frenchsteam7356]

Well Done -as a retired railwayman I enjoyed this. Couple of observations [not a criticism] Wagons began to be painted bauxite in the 70s whether fitted on not. Most brake vans were "Piped Only" but painted bauxite. V was Western region, E was Eastern. S was Scottish, M was Midland and O was Southern region! An anomaly on Tyneside was the steam hauled Tyne Dock-Consett ore trains which were fully fitted but ran Class H with headlamps "straight up and down" In the 70s on Tyneside ballast trains were usually 9Txx, Local Traffic engines were 9Pxx e.g. 9P30 0630 Tyne Yard -Consett [two trips which were untimetabled]

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Great info French steam. Much appreciated, regards Charlie

[@going2thedogs]

Hi Charlie, Reference your rake of dogfish engineers wagons. Catfish wagons were also found with the dogfish along with on occasions Seacows. The obligatory brake van would also be included & if a shark brake van was used it wasn’t uncommon to fine this in the middle of the rake. With regard to the couplings, a small thickness (1mm) of plastic potential could cure the ‘droop’ by sliding this into the coupling housing. Alternatively I guess the original couplings could be replaced. Hope this helps.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks mate, but I’m going to replace all the couplings with a rigid bar. Regards Charlie

[@magnificus8581]

Despite how busy life gets, always a pleasure to see the next video from my model railroad professor!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

What a heartwarming comment mate. You’re too kind, regards Charlie.

[@russellbenton2987]

But where do I put my Hornby polomint tanker lol ? This is a really useful guide Charlie

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Every day is a school day Russell, for us railway modellers

[@tomlawton7087]

Russel, you can put the tanker wherever you can find a hole for it! 😀

[@proberts8]

I never knew the difference between grey and bauxite wagons.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Every day is a school day for railway modellers!

[@nicholasking8414]

Charlie, as a result of your very succinct explaination that Bauxite painted wagons were vacuum fitted and Grey painted wagons were unfitted, my flabber was well and truly gasted. It was so gasted that I phoned my rail-pal of nearly 70yrs residing in the US of A and asked him "Did you know that?" When after an uncharacteristic moment of silence he said "No", I realised that his flabber was gasted as well. So Charlie, how, in over 60yrs of railfanning did we not know that? Can't believe it - hidden in plain sight! But, are we alone .......?!!!!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Rest assured Nicholas, you are not alone. Just remember that every day is a school day for a railway modeller. Regards Charlie