BULLET MYTHS: You Are Using The Wrong Bullet | TPH67

[@davidlukeman1546]

Great episode fellas. TPH has definitely become my favorite podcast. Very informative and entertaining 👍🏻

[@txpredatorhunting]

Thanks for watching!

[@merleaber7373]

Take a drink every time wade says sexual density 😂

[@BAYRAKTAR_MAN]

So glad it’s not just me

[@alanbaird7866]

I’m dead

[@tjbarkley727]

23:51 I don’t hate the 6.5 creedmoor but I get annoyed with people that make it out to be the almighty from above and only use it to shoot whitetails at 200 yards max.

[@weldmonger1560]

Haha I feel the same way. Fuckin idiots if u ask me lol

[@gsnicholas8522]

Like you said, it’s not the cartridge that is the problem. It’s all the hype and lies that surround it. It’s a reasonable moderate range hunting cartridge. It does a respectable job punching paper and banging steel at long range. What it isn’t is the end all be all long range hunting cartridge. Yet, if you listen to the needmoor fanboi’s it’s the ultimate long range hunting cartridge ever. They act like it will flatten everything in the next area code.

[@jonsrm125k5]

It's amazingly versatile like the 25-06, with less recoil, powder, better bullets. 100 gr ELDVTs are flat to 350 yards, and maintain speed well to 800, with FAST twist being required. Same gun with a 143 ELDX is maintaining speed out to 800 yards, better than a 25-06, less windage, less drop, less temp sensitivity. It's the BEST version of an all rounder. The best angle to manufacture brass consistently, 30* The most consistent burn, sending a 100 gr the same speed with 3/4 of the powder of a 25-06 6.5 bullets have always been big in long range, so lots of efficient choices, Easy to train, efficient, flexible...

[@rootjr.3658]

SD is simply the weight of the projectile divided by the cross-sectional area, therefore all 55 gr. .224 projectiles have the exact same SD. Sectional density is almost pointless when it comes to terminal performance especially when it comes to hunting bullets. This is because the cross-sectional/frontal area changes as soon as it starts to expand and not al bullets expand at the same rate. Case in point, in .308 look at something like the Speer 130 grain Varmint Hollow Point versus the Barnes 130 grain TTSX. That's an extreme example, but they have the same SD but very different terminal performance. Bullet construction is the name of the game. Energy dispersion does not kill anything! Destruction of vital organs and blood loss is what kills. An exit hole can promote blood loss and be beneficial in increasing a blood trail, but is more important for ensuring enough penetration to reach and destroy the vital organs from less than optimal angles. Not as important for smaller animals (fox, coyote, bobcat, etc.) since almost all centerfire cartridge are more powerful per weight of critter than the typical rounds used for a given large game species.

[@tymof]

Where I live you can watch your dog run away for two days with a good set of binoculars.

[@stephencooper5040]

Sounds magnificent, like God’s country.

[@travisseverson]

That's most of north dakota, some of its gods country, unfortunately I don't know that most of it is anymore. Guess if all depends on what gods country is to you. The hills, valleys 😂mountains with few people are what I feel is gods country. Unfortunately I'm only there its once or twice a year anymore 😢

[@timothyc.taylor8252]

I stumbled on to this video and just had to laugh at myself. In trying to keep predators off my lamb crop a few years ago I couldn't feed my 22-250 or my .204. The .308 was overkill but I could find ammo. I totally revamped how I thought and rebuilt my arsenal around available ammo. Now I'm happily regunned and restocked with .223, 9mm and .308. My priorities did a 180 from want "might" work best to what I could actually aquire. I'm in Central Texas hills and brush seldom shoot past 200 yards.

[@Farmd427]

It’s nice to hear a discussion when the person understands the nuances of terminal performance versus calculated metrics. I think we disagree about certain aspects of some bullets; however, we both know where what we shoot will be after the shots are fired.

[@txpredatorhunting]

Wow, we can disagree on things but then find common ground ?!! lol and not just call each other names?

[@mckimmym]

I looked up sexual density and got very different results than what you were talking about.

[@jonkurowski6721]

Check out banana ballistics. He tests different cartridges against each other on plate steel and measures the penetration. Pretty interesting.

[@johnroland6679]

Great video. I really appreciate the time and effort ya'll put into this.

[@JamesWalker-ng1qh]

Seen them crators on the moon? Those were caused by .308's. Best caliber ever, stop hatin.

[@weldmonger1560]

Not everyone wants to carry a 20 pound rifle with mediocre ballistics...

[@garrickr5084]

Nobody knows more about ballistic science than Lyman Hazelton. He’s an MIT faculty member, and his studies of caliber comparisons are incredibly intricate. Fun fact: Lyman was also chosen by NASA to land a rocket on Mercury because of his knowledge of ballistic and physical science.

[@coreymoyers5771]

Think of sectional density like this, it is the length of the base below the mushroom to push it through the animal more. Technically, it's the mass divided by the length, but that will help you understand more.

[@gat2asp919]

I just hear there renameing .308 to .308 Creedmoore so gomers in Texas can fall in with it.

[@JVR-gd7zw]

Wade, what's your take on 7mm-08? Is it 308 redhead step kid or ???

[@txpredatorhunting]

6.5 creed killed it. Basically. I’d rather have it than a 308.

[@rm10002]

Wade, hope this helps…I’d say the simplest way to describe high sectional density instead of saying high B.C. is to say “heavy for caliber”…they’re essentially synonymous. The same grain weight in an old school lead round nose and a polymer tip ELD-M could have very different BCs but may have the same sectional density.

[@nowherespecial6780]

By any chance are you making any decent match 243. Or coyote hunting two forty three. I'm ranked number four in the state of maine. looking to try out some new stuff I do a lot of the long range competitions as well as I hold our annual west gardiner rod and gun club coyote Contest . Here in maine. Great podcast I love listening to you guys stuff. Sincerely Baker family in maine

[@txpredatorhunting]

We do not currently.

[@nowherespecial6780]

@@txpredatorhunting Well Can't wait until you do. You talk a good game. And I bet your product is amazing

[@stephenharden8265]

I was listening with my air pods… kinda muffled sounds… then I heard the phrase, “Then sexual density entered the conversation.” Wow, I really perked up, thinking, I’m not sure what sexual density has to do with ballistics, but I’m going to find out! How disappointed I was to learn you were only talking about sectional density. Yes, I got to 6 ARC thru the .224 Valkyrie wicket. I have just about every caliber you can chamber in an AR. 6 ARC is the way.

[@brodyholloway7161]

Just found your podcast and KZbin channel. Enjoying it a lot but wondering how I can find the name of the your gun store. You referenced it in a couple of episodes I’ve listened to. I’m in the market for a new scope and would love to see what y’all have in stock.

[@txpredatorhunting]

Ally Munitions is website. Ally outdoors is brick and mortar in Midland, tx

[@baddogwaterfowl7302]

12” thick ballistic gel block on a pendulum. This would probably be the most consistent way. Varmint rounds should stop in that thickness therefore releasing 100%. Solid bullets would pass through carrying energy with them. While this still wouldn’t every worldly possibility. It would be a good comparison that’s never been done to my knowledge.

[@jeffreywilson690]

If foot pounds matter, bow hunters will never kill anything The hunter needs to educate him or her on bullets

[@gsnicholas8522]

Since broadheads and bullets function very differently, your comparison is irrelevant.

[@FaithWRanch]

Great video. I've never thought about how a bullet expands. I knew that velocity affected the expansion, but didn't think about the density of the animal affecting it. Lots to think about. I've visited the store since i live in Midland. Very nice place. I would like to have a class in reloading. Im very new to that.

[@clcmarc]

A lot of people subscribe to Wade theory that a bullet that exits an animal is not as effective as a bullet that expends all its energy inside the animal. I always waffled on this idea but tonight I began to consider Velocity as it relates to the bullets damage in an animal. For a bullet to stay inside the cavity, it goes from initial velocity upon entering the animal to Zero once stopped. Wouldn’t a bullet that passes completely through an animal have transferred far more energy, thus killing power if its mass could retain enough velocity to pass through the animal. I am assuming a bullet that mushrooms and not a solid.

[@txpredatorhunting]

It’s not a theory, it’s physics and biophysics.

[@it_is_what_it_is_brotha]

a bullet has all of its energy at the point it hits, it cannot create more, so if a bullet goes through an animal it has taken the energy left from the point of exit with it. While a bullet that stops inside has dumped its full load without squirting any outside ;)

[@txpredatorhunting]

Correction - I said the 68 gr Hornady was a flat base projectile , i meant boat tail. My apologies. My brain often out runs the mouth .

[@TheBlackTrapper]

Could y'all please do a 12min talk on the 68gr Hornady in 223/5.56 ? You guys have mentioned it a lot but never went too deep in it and would really appreciate it. Thanks

[@aktideracer8710]

Do jell block testing and measure the distance it makes it in and if all the bullets you test are 1000ftlb of energy entering you can do an equation of how for they go in to energy dump per inch

[@jttipton8954]

Yes, the weight matters a lot. Would you rather get hit by a ping pong ball at 100mph or a golf ball at 80mph?

[@brucezechman1557]

Don’t worry I just started listening to this but I wanted to thank you guys because I love your podcast😊

[@txpredatorhunting]

We appreciate it.

[@arkoutarkout3654]

Yes , I just came across them

[@wanderingancientpaths9037]

Why not use different weight clay blocks diffrent thicknesses I would think that would allow you to demonstrate all factors at once?

[@Andrew-ql1cz]

I think the variable you are thinking about recording is called momentum transfer. Also to the comment about how the size of the gel block matters, it does matter. Think about how many times you see the block expand and break the surface holding it up when the bullet impacts. You should be able to record the momentum transfer over time and test wide vs narrow gel blocks to see if the size matters.

[@jerryhorton2899]

Until the figure out how to give a gel block a heart and lungs it’s not a valid way of testing. I can shoot my little 22-250 into a gel block and it’s mediocre but you should see the gob of goo it leaves inside a whitetail chest cavity. If people would bother to open up the animals they shoot we wouldn’t need gel testing or KZbin videos telling you what bullet you need to use on what game

[@dzhitshard]

Terminal ballistic performance vs External ballistic performance: it passes over the top of so many people’s heads on the internet and at gun store counters. Sexual Density plays a part in terminal performance but not as much as the projectile’s engineering, especially when the lighter projectiles being used in by predator hunters in ARC are being sent at significantly slower velocities then the use they were engineered around. Alloy density, jacket thickness/taper, meplate/tips and voids between the core etc. matter more than SD for energy delivery on target. I don’t believe it is likely measurable in the lighter weight 6mm projectile class but the performance can be observed 70~ gr and above.

[@lorenkrug]

Keeping it simple the rounder the bullet the deadlier

[@shermrock345]

You wanna talk about a bullet that drive deep just on reps along because its rotation is so fast that's 8.6 blackout. Let me tell you they have a hollow point that is just mean and will drill down. I mean penetrate deeply. 8.6 is 1 and 3 for barrel. I seen one take a Cape buffalo with one shot and that's a thick animal.

[@formulajoe2]

Sectional Density is more about the mass of the projectile relative to its diameter. Higher mass bullets of the same diameter will always have a higher sectional density. Higher BC is usually a bi-product of that since you need more mass to make the bullet longer and “pointier”. Therefore the 6ARC with these lightweight bullets will have a lower SD (because of the larger diameter) and won’t penetrate as easily as say the 224V with the same weight bullet…. Dumps it’s energy and thumps them harder.

[@formulajoe2]

Sexual Density is another thing altogether.

[@txpredatorhunting]

Well said .

[@Andrew-ql1cz]

It's the mass of the bullet over the area of the bullet. The area is the cross-sectional area of the bullet at its full diameter. The area is caliber dependent so comparing the SD for different weight bullets is what most people are doing. The SD doesn't change with respect to the bullet design if the mass and caliber are the same. Increasing the mass in the same caliber results in a higher SD while, increasing the caliber and keeping the mass the same would decrease the SD.

[@misterlewgee8874]

​@@formulajoe2sexual density was mentioned alot....

[@cruzmissileoutdoors]

Where are you finding ammo that has 4k velocity, that's insane. Most I've found is 3100 velocity.

[@twilliams99williams50]

Damn it, Wade, I came here for bullets. Stop talking about aluminum cars! You guys crack me up

[@txpredatorhunting]

❤

[@arkoutarkout3654]

You need to check out The Ranch fairy 🧚, he gose deep into this with arrows

[@kriswarren6202]

I feel like folk who are obsessed with sec dens and BC and fps and stuff are also very low success on shots over 300 yards if they ever even hit anything alive at that distance at all......Mostly. cuz folk who are successful aren't obsessed,they just know stuff. And also the folk who are not good like never watched VHS tapes of Randy Anderson. Thats pretty much facts n stuff. Shrugged shoulders imogi. P.S Those stained cedar planks are sick.

[@txpredatorhunting]

😂

[@jonathandavis7810]

I'm gonna be honest. The furthest shot I have on my property is 150 yards. Its a thick wooded hunting plot. So I can use whatever. Like 224 55, 62 ,and 75gr works well on whitetail deer. I even use 168 gr smk 308 and 7.62x54r out my m44 mosin carbine garbage rod lol I've used other calibers bit you get the point. Just do your part behind the rifle and the animal will expire.

[@jeffward8278]

Hey i just found you guys, and i like your channel. I dont know if you ever done a video on 204. Keep up the good work.

[@nowherespecial6780]

Vmax is also in fifty eight grain .243 Hornady superformance That is cooking . Lite wait, little. projectile.3925 fps

[@JoshDowling-of7bv]

I handload the 65 grain in my .243, it hooks.

[@asador7922]

Very informative podcast. Recommend putting a time stamp in future videos where you actually start the “meat and potatoes” of the video. Don’t take this as a slight, it’s not, just a simple recommendation for those of us who tend to skip over excellent creators videos who have longer content and it’s unclear of the first 5 or 15 minutes is off title discussions

[@jonathandavis7810]

10.5 223 ar pistol and 55gr vmax works well on whitetails at bow range if you do your part. 😈😈

[@Helfirearms]

Your explanation of sectional density was not spectacular if I’m honest 😂 RPM’s don’t make that big of a difference in relation to damage to an animal. If you used a 1:7 or 1:9 223 you wouldn’t see a difference on a coyote. Weight of an animal matters I suppose but not in the way your guys were grappling with and comparing to cars of various weights. Weight matters mostly as it has to do with mass and density and how far you need to penetrate. Bullet construction is probably one of the most important factors for use case scenario. You don’t want to use a vmax when shooting deer/medium game and up, you want something that will expand reliably but just as important you need it to penetrate well. When shooting a coyote I want my bullet to explode and not have an exit wound

[@txpredatorhunting]

It wasn’t, I struggled in how to convey it in a way for all to understand. As for the rest of your statement I mostly agree. That said, no a small difference in barrel twist will not matter much when comparing apples to apples. That said, a significant increase in rpm’s will however affect a projectiles performance greatly. It’s a deep , long conversation I’ll revisit again soon. Because as I said , it all depends. As for “varmint bullets” on deer sized game. It still depends on velocity and rpm’s.

[@michaelcerrone1482]

Once again, you're spot.

[@nowherespecial6780]

I think you're right on the money with your explanation. I get paid to hunt coyotes here in maine. I have hunted them with it 223. And i've had a lot of bullets just zip right through. And the coyote is still holding ass . One of the last ones I shot was 225 yards With a 53 grain Hornady V max. Right in the boiler room. Went forty feet and that was it with a good blood trail. The proof is in the pudding when it comes to the Correct ammo. Attach a piece of a r five hundred steel on the back of a small pig about as thick as a small doe. With your measuring device on the back. Almost like the punching bag thing at the fair. Sounds good In theory lol. But something that's not talked about as much at least around here. Why is the 6.5 creedmore. And the 243 ain't talked about as much. A little bit of mainer talk for you lol But when it comes to ballistics, they are almost identical until the eight hundred yard mark. And that is facts This new age super fast cartridge when we had one the whole damn time

[@michaelmeyers1827]

How about the 90 grain they use in the valkery

[@jbcaptain11]

Flat based hp are the most accurate. To 360yards. Food for thought. … load Barnes vg in your 6arc

[@calangel]

I'm not sure who has a 223 Remington/5.55/223 wylde bolt gun, and is loading to 55ksi. That's silly when you have the 62ksi ceiling. All the overseas 223 Rem guns run at 62ksi and they're aren't built any stronger than our rifles. Western data books show you the load data for CIP spec loads.

[@williamsonnie9935]

Sectional density doesn’t have anything to do with BC! A 30 cal 168 grain bullet and a 7mm 168 grain bullet compared at same velocities, the 7mm has a higher sectional density and will then penetrate better. Doesn’t matter vld or a round nose…

[@williamsonnie9935]

SD= bullet weight (grains)/7000/ bullet diameter squared

[@B_mount]

Every time Wade said "sexual density" I'd think to myself how that would make a great p@%no name.

[@jerryhorton2899]

The problem I see with trying to figure how much energy you dumped is shot placement. If you shoot through on a double lung shot you didn’t dump nearly as much energy as you would on a double shoulder. The best way to solve this problem is use a bullet that doesn’t exit and place your damn shot where it goes. Problem solved and your animal is laying right where he was standing. Also I would disagree with you about BC not mattering at 400 yards, a better BC bullet in the same caliber can make 200-300 fps at 400 yards which make a noticeable difference in impact energy

[@watchhowto]

Another great conversation. Did he keep saying sexual density😂

[@txpredatorhunting]

Sectional density, but it seems folks hear something different.

[@josht8071]

I was more confused after listening to this podcast than after a middle school health class. I remember the boys went to one classroom and the girls to a separate one.

[@JoshDowling-of7bv]

Pardon my ignorance, but I've been running 65 grain v maxes out of my .243 for years, what does a faster twist 6mm Creedmoor offer that a .243 doesn't? I get it for whitetail, but I have different rifles if I want for that. Specific to purpose predator hunting?

[@txpredatorhunting]

If you’re buying factory ammo , probably nothing much .

[@LowSpeedHighDrag5]

Sexual density?!

[@vancelandry9369]

Sexual density is how far it’s going to permeate vs how wide it stretches things.

[@AnthonysOutdoors]

Love the podcast. When it comes to the energy discussion. You are confusing a mathematical equation with terminal performance and expecting a certain amount of lethality to be obtained given a certain amount of energy. That simply isn't how it works. Ft Lbs of energy does not equal "killing force." Terminal performance of a bullet is designed around the bullet construction and speed of the projectile. They don't factor in ft lbs of energy into the bullet construction because it's just a math equation. Which IMO the entire ft lbs of energy equation is and has been misused by the firearm industry for decades and incorrectly correlated with "stopping power." And that's just not true.

[@johndeere2799]

I keep hearing "sexual" density...😂

[@brandongriffin1990]

How to figure energy. Velocity x velocity x weight of projectile divided by “450,240” should get you close to figuring energy for your load “ for poors that can’t afford nice chronographs” like me 😮‍💨😂 maybe this might help someone.

[@kenorrah8072]

I just looked up Sexual Density on Google and now I’m even more confused . I have found a couple of new channels to subscribe to thought .🤭 So good work fellas.

[@MrWallaland]

I wasn’t the only one hearing that! 😂

[@josht8071]

I thought I must have missed something important back in middle school health class many years ago.

[@PTWNSLGR]

Oh thank God, I thought I was totally losing my hearing lol cause that’s all I heard and I could not figure out what I was learning 😂😂😂

[@kylealancampbell]

I swear it sounds like you’re saying sexual density

[@kenorrah8072]

The four best/successful hunters I know don’t have time to be on Facebook or Forums. Social media is the most misleading avenue that you can ever go down .

[@MisterDaxter]

Hi

[@wmski88]

Weight of animal doesn't matter

[@wmski88]

Density yes your not shooting all 800 lbs ur shooting a small portion

[@wmski88]

Just my thoughts they mean nothing but love the show and u have stewed me back to match bullets for hunting

[@bryceeverett]

Sexual density

[@MurdogHunter]

I keep hearing sexual density ...is it just me?

[@txpredatorhunting]

Several others heard that.

[@stephenharden8265]

I was listening with my air pods… kinda muffled sounds… then I heard the phrase, “Then sexual density entered the conversation.” Wow, I really perked up, thinking, I’m not sure what sexual density has to do with ballistics, but I’m going to find out! How disappointed I was to learn you were only talking about sectional density. Yes, I got to 6 ARC thru the .224 Valkyrie wicket. I have just about every caliber you can chamber in an AR. 6 ARC is the way.