Bullet Penetration in Left 4 Dead 2

This video's subtitles took 26 minutes.
This project started on April 23.
0:00 Intro
0:37 Finding Thickness
1:49 Gun Power and Material Modifier
3:10 Other Penetration Facts
4:46 Recap
5:12 Strategy
6:06 Good Wallbangs to know

[@goatwithagun]

Me when I'm in a competition of adding unexplained mechanics in my game and my opponent is valve

[@Tucasor]

Me when I'm in a competition of adding major updates to my game every 8 years and my teammate is valve: (we win)

[@Oscylot88]

To be fair, I don't recall any game explaining that plywood is not bulletproof, besides CS:GO and Call of Duty 4 (coincidentally the best games ever). It shouldn't need to be explained.

[@1remotic]

I’m pretty sure it shows up as a tip

[@AlphaGarg]

@@Oscylot88 Those are two very weird choices for GOAT.. how many games besides FPSs have you played? Or heck, even including...

[@Oscylot88]

@@AlphaGarg I don’t enjoy walking simulators, I’d love to hear about an FPS that’s better than CoD4 promod or CS.

[@richardhafer]

left 4 dead players being normal once again.

[@the10ofdiamondscard]

implying that other valve fans are normal (we're not)

[@richardhafer]

@@the10ofdiamondscard we're normal (we don't even like the game)

[@heribertojr.2853]

​@@richardhafer Me when I see furry pokemon porn on the workshop for the seventh time today:

[@zye.]

​@@heribertojr.2853Gmod players:

[@BenC23]

​@@zye.L4d2 players You ever seen that workshop? Pure degeneracy lol

[@TommyCD1]

Wallbanging being one-sided explains to me why it's so easy to shoot through ceilings but not floors.

[@rsho3472]

I still can't believe dirt has a penetration value, I've neven been able to kill anything through dirt or sand floor (although sand isn't very common in L4D2), but the floor in the No Mercy appartments is pretty easy to penetrate

[@AlexEatDonut]

I remember killing a boomer on versus through a wall and getting called a cheater years ago. Nice to see a video on this.

[@TheBuster0926]

6:22 Back in CoD Black Ops 2, in the Campaign there was a Special Sniper Rifle that's whole Reason for Existing was its ability to shoot though ANYTHING even like a Collapsed HighWay Overpass. But it couldn't shoot though a Potted Plant. I suspect the Plant Decal/Entity/Brush/Mesh/Wall acts as the first wall you Hit. So then the Concrete Wall soaks the Shot.

[@L0KKI22]

related to the wall containing something called func_detail and are what is called "brush entities" and for some reason in L4D2 they have different penetration mechanics compared to world brushes. No matter what the wall is made out of (material) you cannot wallbang anything thicker then 8 units.

[@Oswaldo_Godoy]

ah yes the PSR Storm my beloved

[@james1328]

50 smokers were harmed in the making of this video

[@JAiZYouTube]

The distance you can wallbang will vary depending on whether the wall is a world brush or an entity (func_detail, func_brush, etc.) It's been a while since I tested it, but if I remember correctly, a sniper can shoot through a 32 unit thick world brush but only though 8 unit thick func_details, so that adds another layer of consideration. Props with concave collision models are also quite annoying. The nuke truck is a good example: You can wallbang outwards from the inside, but not from the outside in. If I'm understanding the technical explanation correctly, the game is basically checking the area behind the first impact for the bullet trajectory, sees that there's a 2nd bit of collision it would hit, and applies the "you can't shoot through two surfaces" logic to it, causing zero penetration, and no damage to any infected inside. However, if you stand inside the truck and shoot at an infected outside of it, it penetrates just fine.

[@Fasteroid]

Props with concave colliders were also problematic for me when I had to do something similar in gmod

[@Fezezen]

The practically infinite penetration of snipers is actually pretty useful for survival mode or clearing a horde. Especially the Military Sniper is good at this.

[@collinhunter4258]

Fezezen! I didn’t expect to see you here fella. Guts and Blackpowder is awesome!

[@zaden9009]

I’m kind of surprised there are still many people that don’t know about this. I kind of find it satisfying getting wall-bangs with any sniper to kill a Special Infected.

[@megaman6710]

Is it possible that the moss/vines decoration is messing with the bullet penetration calculation on that one non-shootable wall?

[@wolfcl0ck]

The funny thing about Source Engine Bullet Penetration is that most Source Games have bullet penetration. CS:S has it. DoD:S has it. Left 4 Dead has it. Honestly, it's easier to count the series that *don't* have it than it is to count the series that do, those being Half-Life and Team Fortress. Actually, I wonder if Alien Swarm has bullet penetration.

[@theworldisafrog]

have you tested Alien Swarm yet?

[@wolfcl0ck]

@@theworldisafrog I'ven't.

[@ISHITMYSELF987]

Well Half-life HAS bullet penetration. On like, 2 pieces of glass in the entire game.

[@acake6654]

ive played alien swarm reactive drop (the good one, though it should still apply for the original) a lot a while back, and from what i recall, it doesnt have penetration on any kind of map material, but rather, it has a set penetration chance for each weapon, determining if the bullet penetrates an enemy alien to hit another.

[@theworldisafrog]

⁠@@wolfcl0ckgod no dont ever say that again

[@EnjoyGames_]

I like that you take the effort to put subtitles, I love it.

[@Flashyface]

Some indepth L4D videos would be nice to see more often. Good video.

[@scarletcrusader5431]

Ah, perfect short thing to watch before work

[@crispychips7161]

Based pfp and name brother.

[@catsphalt]

watching during my break xd

[@kotorybeusz7246]

Hell yeah another source engine rambling video (I have become addicted to source engine)

[@awsomebot1]

quirky

[@ethosaur]

Is it possible the vines model acts as more "thickness" (with or without collision) causing the bullets not to penetrate in that spot?

[@SourGummyes]

I believe the vines are set as non-solid so they won’t affect it? It still went through on the other wall with vines, so it could be that specific vine model is still solid

[@bshap495]

Someone said in another comment that a wall being a func_detail instead of a world brush actually makes it harder to penetrate. I checked in the map editor, and both walls are the same thickness, but one was a func_detail and the other one wasn't.

[@zergvsgenin]

Learning that bullet penetration was a thing in L4D2 got me shooting through walls to see if I could get some cheeky damage in on hidden enemies.

[@Mystic-Misfit]

"You can't hurt your teammates through walls." Jokes on you, I'mma find a mod that allows that, just for the humor.

[@explodingbearz]

Another awesome video! Always happy when I see you uploaded

[@commanderbly7256]

If you’ve never once thought that left 4 dead 2 never had bullet penetration then you just haven’t played enough of it

[@trollingisgoodforyourhealth]

this guy has such a radio voice

[@AForceGaming]

This video is useful for the players that thought I was cheating

[@TheOneTrueStAN]

Amen. Gonna just have the link as a fuckin keybind lmao

[@buddyisbored2355]

I didnt know this was a mechanic, but it makes sense given that it started off as a counterstrike alternative gamemode

[@TrueAsp763]

Your voice is so calming

[@inkmime]

It's odd to think that some people never noticed the fact that bullet penetration is a thing in L4D, it's probably one of the first things I noticed when I was younger playing L4D1 compared to all the other FPS games I had played up to that point.

[@soupcangaming662]

"Incoming!"

[@gumballegal]

i oftenly just shoot right trough walls when people get caught by specials, most of the time i kill them before even needing to make line of sight. quite a funny mechanic

[@GageTheSpartan]

it's insane to me that most people don't know l4d has wallbanging and headshot damage.

[@pantommy]

People don't know basic stuff like deadstopping, levelling charges, ghosting and shove throwing gas cans and stuff.

[@ByeBaybe]

@@pantommy seen people with thousands of hours with zero clue. crazy.

[@abcdefzhij]

@@pantommywhat’s deadstopping and ghosting?

[@pantommy]

@@abcdefzhij deadstopping - shoving a hunter (or jockey) in the air before getting pinned ghosting - walking while holding Shift in order to hide your aura from the infected team

[@iCarlysmom]

please analyze more about left 4 dead 2 and other firearms in games, i really enjoyed this video

[@Fasteroid]

Oh my god, when I made my e2 raytracer in gmod this is literally the exact algorithm I had to implement for finding the exit point of light rays. I thought I was overcomplicating it, but I guess the limitations of source engine traces forced Valve's hand.

[@youngsarmata5780]

great vid, very informative!

[@abcdefzhij]

That graph you showed ~5 minutes in has to be wrong. I know for a fact the scout does more damage than the military sniper because the scout can 1-shot spitters with a body shot while the military sniper (and presumably the hunting rifle as well but I don’t know 100%) cannot. I am certain this is the case; I’ve spent way too much time playing mall atrium survival lol. The only other explanation is that the gun you are referring to when you say “scout” isn’t the one im thinking of? But if that’s the case you should also put that gun on there. The gun I’m talking about (which almost certainly is the scout) is the one that was added to the mall atrium survival level that you can pick up on the ground far away from the main kiosk that has the other 4 guns. It’s a bolt action sniper that has a slow fire rate.

[@transgirlgeology2464]

Always a good day when pinsplash posts

[@icy3-1]

Still remember an instance of my most random wallbang kill in L4D2. It was in a Versus lobby with friends and I was using the Hunting Rifle on the Dead Air finale while being swarmed by a Horde, so I was naturally alternating between shoving and shooting. One of my rounds went thru a baggage trailer (the ones that can be punched by a Tank), getting a headshot on someone on the enemy team who just spawned behind said trailer as a Jockey, and instantly killed him.

[@MerchantrRe4]

Man, I thought everyone knew bullet penetration was a thing, then again with all the people accusing me of wallhacking on console because my hearing is good should've told me otherwise.

[@FleetAdmirable]

Isnt wallhacking the ability to see through walls, not shooting through walls. So the accusation is you can see through walls.

[@MerchantrRe4]

@FleetAdmirable well, you forget, some people that play most Valve games aren't exactly the brightest tools in the shed.

[@FleetAdmirable]

@@MerchantrRe4 When I was a kid I thought my gun was jamming cuz i was clicking faster than the fire rate, but it wouldnt shoot as fast. I didn't know that guns had a maximum fire rate to prevent what I was doing lol.

[@az_street_walker4181]

I’m just surprised someone played more than 2 campaigns (8 individual levels) and couldn’t determine or tell that this game has bullet penetration you’re telling me you didn’t shoot through the safe house door? Ever? Not once? Okay

[@QuintessentialWalrus]

5:07 Minor mistake in this graph: the Scout has higher damage than the hunting/sniper rifles. IIRC it's 105 because it can one-shot a Spitter with 100 health. The rest of the graph seems correct though.

[@oatmeal710]

all the snipers can one shot a spitter if you can aim

[@OBSV449]

You're like decino for source engine games and I love it.

[@Treeburner25]

Pumpkin ❤

[@bravoalpha101st]

Amazing, new Pinsplash video

[@rebel6301]

nice seeing you here

[@zackattack5803]

Its weird cause I always intuitively knew about and took advantage of bullet pen, but never thought of how it works.

[@pigslam]

this gonna change the way i play forever

[@andyfriederichsen]

3:37 Shotguns are the most OP guns in L4D 1 and 2.

[@YouBeenCaged]

Honestly, you just taught me a lot of wall bang spots for Versus. However, I don’t get how people still don’t know about this.

[@imtoolazyforaprofilepic4961]

6:55 This is a very important wallbang in vs survival. To counter it, just hope or aim to grab a surv behind the wood counters since it technically penetrates 2 walls.

[@mirael1248]

I remember killing a smoker to save my slow ass teammate. It was on Dead Air Chapter 2 Appartment. More spas bullets went through the closer you are to the ceiling.

[@mitts4437]

One time I was playing versus. I was a survivor, and carrying a shotgun, in the apartments in Dead Air. I heard a Boomer spawn in the room to my left, and I think that since I only heard it in my left ear I knew to turn exactly 90 degrees and shoot through the wall, killing him. This only took place in about half a second, and I was accused of aimbot.

[@AndreNg]

5:07 A slight mistake, the Scout does more damage than the Hunting/Military Rifle

[@Pinsplash]

very weird. you are correct but the script file says 90.

[@AndreNg]

The Last Stand update changed it to 105, as seen in the newer script file in Left 4 Dead 2/update/pak01_dir.vpk

[@Nozal]

Awesome video man, but does this apply to props too?

[@myoak108]

I like these videos but it sounds like they're recorded at 3am with a witch in the other room you're trying not to wake up

[@AGrayPhantom]

I thought everyone knew about the penetration power. I always use the sniper rifles because they have the best penetration.

[@truestbluu]

Neat to see I do wallbang detection like Valve :)

[@asteroidrules]

I'd known for a long time that not all grates in the Source engine are created equal. What I'd been told was this happens depending on how the grate was added to the map, grate objects bypass regular wall penetration code and can always be shot through, is that correct?

[@LongPeter]

Information that would have been really useful to me a decade ago.

[@babarasul680]

I'm wondering, did you check maybe if the leaves model has collision on on both of those walls? 6:23 & 6:36

[@monolith4653]

Cool detail but there is one thing I hate with L4D1-2 is immersion breaking design such as when a teammate, (who also has no collision), mag dumps an AR or Uzi right next to you it is as quiet as a mouse chewing in order to nOt BoTHeR aNd sTrEsS tHe PlAyEr. I like the game but your teammates npc or players feel like they are not there as if they are player ghosts in Darksouls

[@razerblaze070]

amazing

[@15braincellsremaining]

Facinating

[@TheGoldenGear]

This is completely unrelated to the topic of the video, but it did always bother me that Special Infected never had more than 1 skin and were incapable of being gibbed

[@DrewPDrawerz]

I think I did this once in the stairs at the start of the second to last stage of No Mercy in Verses with a Sniper Rifle in L4D1. I shot a hunter square in the head through the walls. Then nearly got kicked.

[@nicklenuts]

Still dont understand how people dont know

[@rsho3472]

The tines I've been called a cheater just because I shoot through a paper thin wall

[@jaggaaff5606]

You should do Insurgency (2014) penetration mechanics

[@isa-zv1fn]

I like it when people dont know they can wallbang and call you a cheater for that

[@emoducky]

*laughs in railgun penetration from evolve*

[@jeffreykirkley6475]

Lol, I accidentally discovered this years ago when I shot at the safehouse door just to kill a horde. Later, in a co-op game, I messed with my friend by shooting him through the same kind of door after telling him it was bullet proof.

[@oliveoiltears]

yay pinsplash video!!!!

[@Rose.Com-Forward-Slash-Edits]

grow up

[@15braincellsremaining]

Yay

[@oliveoiltears]

​@@Rose.Com-Forward-Slash-Editseveryone so mean to me

[@sharoyveduchi]

Competitive players once banning fun strats because they don't like fun smh

[@TETRADECAGONE]

I'M HELPING!!

[@painfall]

I honestly thought only doors and like thin surfaces had bullet pen.

[@scootyman3800]

Coworker came up a saw me watching this on my lunch break and asked what it was I’ve never gotten a stranger look in my life

[@pantommy]

These simpletons...

[@scylorn]

The inconsistency has been really bothering me, videogame's idea of penetration conflicts with reality a lot of the time. But besides that some walls are clipped off by bullet clip brushes for gameplay reasons.

[@killercards7733]

You sound exactly like samonella academy

[@ey1535]

scale in source games is a video i wanna see

[@jerichosamurai]

Did people seriously never notice all this time? I've basically been aware of this mechanic since day one and have been using it to cheese the game since forever. Boomer? Push, go behind wall, pop it through wall. Also it's impossible to friendly fire with a wall-bang, so it's superior in some ways.

[@user-fg2dm8mk5f]

As a versus cheater I approve this video 👍

[@xDShot9000]

l4d code in webs is absent because it never been licensed to third parties

[@youbaouahdi4358]

Half life and Left 4 Dead content? I should have subscribed a long time ago.

[@andyfriederichsen]

I thought most people already knew this.

[@DeZeFLY]

0:00 Dude SAME 😢

[@awsomebot1]

half life code was released by valve?

[@Catonatoycar]

Woah is this sam o nella

[@beebfajeejy]

most people STILL don't realize l4d2 has bullet penetration! i get people calling me a wallhacker at least once a week.

[@3ofSpades]

The AK 47 is pretty good for bullet penetration, I use it sometimes if I can't get Ellis out of the charger's hand. Either that or a pipe bomb. This version of Source was always a little buggy, especially with the shadows like you mentioned there. Which is usually why I don't bother playing versus, because of the game is already kind of bs and broken in PvE, you bet your ass that it's going to be busted by big Bill and his buddy John spamming music on the chat while exploiting 15 year old bugs for an advantage.

[@RetroactiveFort]

If I got a dollar each time someone called me a cheater because I shot them through walls.. 😅

[@fluxonixx]

4:13 what was that 😭😭😭

[@lucialambda]

today i learned there's competitive versus mode?

[@pantommy]

Versus becomes really weird when the skill ceiling is raised really high, survivors basically become Gods because they have more options than specials. Comp modes like confogl aim to nerf survivors, but also change some cheesy stuff about specials. These modes are not good for beginners whatsoever, which probably showcases the genuis in designing a casual gamemode that can also work as a competitive gamemode with some rule changes.

[@ReachTea]

the audio balance is sus

[@SilentAlcoholic]

Sam O'nella alt?

[@SonOfTheChinChin]

i hate that source engine dont have bullet drop mechanism

[@1x5x7]

Source Engine supports bullet drop for projectiles, not hitscan though.

[@SonOfTheChinChin]

@@1x5x7 i want hitscan bullet like battlefield

[@klei4173]

Объясняю маме, почему у неё никогда не будет внуков

[@TehhCake]

I learnt this the hard way by trying to hide behind a tree in vs mode a bit too often and never learning.... At 8:37 - not a wallbang, but you can climb back up there if someone gets incapped, by jumping on the pipes in the alley to the right

[@BakedBanana]

oh?

[@uknownevilhero5918]

U sound like Sam O’Nella

[@wafflesandpancake69]

UHH

[@lukemorgan6166]

I'm sorry but if you use a rifle over an AR or shotgun . You're getting kicked 😤

[@damienrey8216]

90% of players dk abt wallbanging in this game and kick u for doing it

[@MegaZeta]

o7

[@phalxor]

good vid but you are trying to deep throat the mic or something. way too much low end and way too close to the mic. we mostly hear the inside of your mouth sloshing around and popping

[@bottomtempo]

owo

[@halfsine]

no

[@kadrix732]

owo

[@halfsine]

@@kadrix732 no

[@DaCoolX]

owo

[@ziggazaggar]

@@DaCoolXno

[@emirziyad4488]

15th comment (NOT A BOT STUPID)