How to dogfight with the F-4E Phantom | DCS World

[@knightonwarbeck1969]

You are really using the vertical well. When I asked my father how he would have fought the MIGs in Vietnam (he flew the F-4 from 1975-77) he said the following; "I would take advantage of the Phantoms massive fuel load (21,000lbs). I would drag the MIGs out to sea and when they RTB due to low fuel, I would turn around and hunt/run them down. The drag distance between me and the MIGs would be 3-5 miles to give the MIG pilots "hope" of catching and shooting me down. CGI would give me the radio calls to maintain this safe 3-5 mile distance. As soon as they break off to RTB, I drop tanks if they are empty, turn 180 degrees, and get into burner." The J79 on the deck and in MAX AB uses 1000lbs per minute or, 2,000lbs per minute in the Phantom. Dad said if you have full internal fuel at the merge, you have about 3-4 minutes of burner time, always good to set a "soft" BINGO at 6000-6500 lbs. Internal is 12,000 lbs. He also said when using the (pure) vertical, you consume less fuel because you are in burner "only half the time" as you are in military power on the way down and, the higher you go the less fuel us burned even for a few seconds at 10K to 30K ft when flying The Egg. Meanwhile the MIG stays in burner if he stays horizontal. Just some things to think about when MAX performing the F-4. Nice flying.

[@Rich_828]

Idk why but the way you described it was more incredible to read than watching an episode of dogfights

[@YuFow]

Wow very interesting

[@kadose]

Thank you. This is gold. Nothing like first-accounts from the guys who were actually flying these awesome aircraft.

[@adilkhalil8559]

Wow! This is amazing info!

[@JonBrase]

7:34 The NATO reporting names for for enemy fighters all start with F as a mnemonic for them being fighters. Bombers all start with B (Bear, Backfire, etc), helicopters start with H (e.g, Hind), cargo planes start with C, and everything else starts with M for miscellaneous. Jets are two syllables, props are one.

[@soleenzo893]

TIL there is a logic behind the weird (and sometimes ugly or demeaning) names given to redfor planes. so interesting, thanks for the precision, this makes so much sense

[@CapitalRoach]

Ahhh that's why it's called the Fantom!

[@JonBrase]

Attack aircraft are inconsistently assigned to the fighter or bomber categories: observe Bark (Il-2) vs. Frogfoot (Su-25).

[@soleenzo893]

@@JonBrase there are people out there who can definitely justify the Frogfoot's F lol. that thing can move under the right hands

[@cassidy7255]

Great video, really enjoy listening to somebody that's really able to wrangle the F-4. Nicely done.

[@aztec0112]

MiG-29 Fulcrum MiG-25 Foxbat MiG-23 Flogger MiG-21 Fishbed MiG-19 Farmer MiG-17 Fresco MiG-15...........Bundle of Sticks

[@Lightning_Mike]

MiG-15 - Musical instrument.

[@dcsheinlein]

Mig-15 British cigarette

[@soleenzo893]

Super knteresting to see how in the 1st fight against the 21, you diminated the situation by using the vertical really well, but even that is not enough in a real tactical context since, in a 1v1 you might win the battlefield isnt a 1v1, and those other jets turning up meant even with qile fuel left, you weren't on top anymore. puts into perspective how complicated it is to evaluate who is doing better in a fight. clearly ending a fight fast by either a fast kill or finding an exit, is really important to the medium and longterm outcome of the situation.

[@agidotexe7167]

that first fight with the mig21 really gives good reason for the ''Sledgehammer'' nickname, you come up and you swing down with lethal intent and if you miss you use the momentum of the swing to come up around and do it all over again!

[@marswor]

appreciate the honest approach to the clips you're showing off, it's definitely a learning material plus a great commentary, thanks!

[@alexf9733]

oh hey I was the mig19 pilot lol I was watching it thinking "this reminds me of the other day". the f4 vs mig19 fight is painfully boring if the f4 does the proper thing which is really just running away.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

I definitely think I can abuse the 19’s lack of nose authority and tendency to rip ailerons off at high speed with some more practice - fingers crossed nothing breaks on the 19 whilst Razbam are AWOL because not enough people fly it as is.

[@alexf9733]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy ya I've given up on the 19 for the time being just because I don't wanna play it more if it's inevitably going to break and be unplayable which sucks because I think it's the most fun cold war plane.

[@souldrainer9121]

Harder objects don't fall faster as the gravitational acceleration is constant on Earth and does not depend on the object's mass. Great video though :)

[@nadnerb117]

Gravitational acceleration is constant, but force is mass times acceleration. That's not taking thrust into the equation as well. Gravitational acceleration is only part of the equation.

[@Vekk17]

@@nadnerb117 Sure but speed is not a function of force, you can perhaps pick up more speed in the dive with a better thrust to weight (though that depends on aerodynamics as well) but weight is not a factor for that.

[@catfunt5583]

This is assuming vacuum, feather definitely falls slower than brick in atmo. A super light jet will not have as much gravitational potential as a phat phantom, so the energy per second a diving plane can achieve is determined by 9.8m/s/s multiplied by Mass.

[@Vekk17]

​@catfunt5583 Sure but a smaller plane spends less energy in maneuvers and loses less to drag. Really it Is about speed not joules here.

[@Llyd_ApDicta]

Great fights and awesome analysis.

[@Ramirez4565]

Thank you for making this presentation. God Bless!

[@HighAspect]

Would be nice of the AI MiGs FMs weren’t so jacked

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

That’s why I only play online so the opposition are bound by physics and not bullshit lol

[@TheDAWinz]

F-4E is quite a capable dogfighter, people meme "bricks with wings" but they couldnt be more wrong. Hard wing phantoms dogwalked F-8s in exercises where they outpreformed them in every category under 4000m, and the F-4E has a similar or slightly better rate than the F-5E, while the F-4S has better high speed STR than the F-14.

[@kynanledee5089]

U have a source on the f4s bit seems a bit bs to me

[@TheDAWinz]

@@kynanledee5089 Yea, look at the F-14A/B E-M charts (they're almost exactly the same) and compare it to the F-4S's.

[@kynanledee5089]

@@TheDAWinz yeah which ones? I can’t find them anywhere for the f4s

[@hummingbird9149]

​@TheDAWinz Whilst the F-4 certainly was no "brick", and could maneuver better than most give it credit for (esp. the soft winged versions), it wasn't close to the F-14. Yes at high speeds it had a higher rate, but you want to look at best sustained rate, not just rate at a specific speed. The F-14 lost rate at high speed because its wings were fully swept back at that point, but at speeds below 0.74 mach, the wings were coming out and the F-14 featured a very high sustained & instantaneous turn rate, rivaling that of the F-16 whilst at a lower speed and thus G, and as such less strain on the pilot for the same rate. The F-4 variants with the highest sustained rate were the soft winged F-4E & F-4S, with the automatic LE slats providing a noticable improvement to both the ITR and STR of the aircraft, as is eveident when you compare the EM charts of the hard winged F4E with that of the soft winged one. The F-4S featured more powerful engines to boot, and thus was the best performing F-4.

[@SyrupDipper]

Did u post this because i was complaining about there being no info about it in your discord lol

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

Just weirdly convenient timing lol

[@Access_denied153]

How do you customize your pilot? I can never figure out how

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

Customise?

[@Access_denied153]

I saw your pilot had the glasses in in the mirror when you were dogfighting. With the F4 trailer they said you would be able to customize the pilot but idk how to do that.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@Access_denied153 The customisation isn’t implemented yet, the shades/sun visor are keybinds you just need to set up

[@Access_denied153]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy aight thanks

[@AankerStoneshield]

Can't you go vertical on the farmer too?

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

Hell no, it'll annihilate you - nothing should go vertical with the Farmer

[@d_b_7819]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy Actually if you manage the turns correctly there is an advantage in lower G turns that might be exploited against the mig 19. Also out of curiosity did you lock that MiG 19 where the teamkill happened with CAA mode?

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

I can’t remember, honestly. I was fairly confident the lock was on the right target, I think the Phantom was just caught in a sidelobe. I did actually instruct Jester to break the lock immediately but he was too slow ☹️

[@d_b_7819]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy The missiles are usually tuned to the doppler of whatever you lock, so the closure would have had to have been almost the same. I only mention CAA as if you have anything but heaters selected it scans left and right of the nose instead of dead ahead.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@d_b_7819 Radar missiles scan right I’m pretty sure, gun scans left

[@HighAspect]

Multiple overshoots … no reason to keep putting him behind you ;)

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

Him being behind me when I have the energy to escape his nose isn’t dangerous. Slowing down for a shot I might miss is, because then we’re on equal footing. Fair fights are for suckers, speed/energy/altitude is insurance, intentionally stripping yourself of any of that is objectively stupid.

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

@@sg0101010 Knowing that I’m inexperienced and am likely to whiff opportunities due to that, slowing down would have been stupid. I was flying within my own limitations, taking chances without certainty is stupid. If you can guarantee the kill then fair enough, but outside of Gen4 level stuff there are no guarantees in Cold War, especially not with this game’s BS damage modelling.

[@HighAspect]

Good point. Btw, your deflection shots are really good . Good video breakdown

[@DonzeJ]

That technique you described well, its called "bouncing". Its funny that you described it precisely but yeah, once you energy trapped him below your F4 you were able to bounce him down to the deck. You were playing with your food.

[@hugoferrari6468]

I’ll laugh too but I’ll still have more respect for the Chad Mig15 pilots than the F4 pilots I think ^^

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

Was flying the 15 earlier myself and it’s quite fun getting 3 or so tangled up and just turning into whichever is nose hot to deny them a shot. But my god getting guns on is pure pain. And even if you do the F-4 is a damage sponge and just doesn’t give a shit.

[@mikeck4609]

The phantom is a bus. It is a brick and it is NOT particularly aerodynamic (it is called the “triumph of thrust over drag”). But what it IS…is the sexiest most bad ass looking aircraft ever made. It just LOOKS like it was built to kill sh**

[@jpatty5473]

Great tips, def got more successful once started using the vert and avoid the flat turning at all. Play like a really good f5 pilot

[@BikeratBerlin]

really nice video - i liked to hear you thoughts and tactics in these specifics situations - gib more videos ;)

[@shadowfax9861]

Great vid Bud.

[@simtaylor61]

They start with F because that is the first letter in Fighter. So you know it's a fighter from F and what it is from the name (Hence MiG 15 Fagot, MiG 19 Farmer, Mig 21 Fishbed etc)

[@Bullet4MyEnemy]

Hence the Frogfoot is unironically the best dogfighter on ECW 😅

[@simtaylor61]

@@Bullet4MyEnemy it’s a NATO thing