The Original Plans for Universal’s Dark Universe

[@croneycousteau]

Around 2016-2017, I was an Uber driver in La, when I picked up this frazzled client who was on a conference call, explaining how “the film isn’t working”, something about how the director was green, and how “he (or) Tom is running the show now”, causing lots of turmoil on set, especially with the director. Years later, I think back and I can’t help but wonder if they were discussing the doomed production of The Mummy.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Must’ve been! Thnx for sharing. Wild story.

[@Chuck_EL]

​​​​​@@Bulletsandblockbusters The biggest issue was that they hired Popcorn action writers and producers to helm the dark universe As you said , they put known a listers as the monsters instead of lesser known actors and actresses in them roles and you're right making the monsters superheroes was a bad idea too And the people they got to helm the dark universe aren't really considered good ones in fact they both have been bashed by critics and movie goers for alot of the films they wrote and produced So why would Universal Studios decided to make them helm a horror dark universe? And then "Nick Fury" of any dark universe should of been Abraham Van Helsing , not making horror monsters "sympathetic" you already have the humans who have been killed by these monsters as sympathetic characters and Van Helsing being the protagonists It should of been known famous Indy horror filmmakers to helm the dark universe franchise

[@4Everlast]

Veryyyyy likely.

[@4Everlast]

@@Chuck_EL Popcorn action writers ain't the problem. BAD writers are a problem, Kurtzman, Goyer and such. A good writer will do his research and will NOT write a bad script no matter how new he is to the material. And yes, unknown and lesser known actors would cut the cost for the studios by 50% at least. Enough with the glorification of a handful of people.

[@RobVespa]

@@Chuck_EL - This is not true. Content is king. The concept, let alone the sole released project, shouldn't have been greenlit without a complete plan and, in the case of the film, script (that had been wholly polished and was known to be golden).

[@HunterShark300]

The biggest mistake was the tone. These are monsters, not superheroes. A modern reinterpretation of the classic films from the '30s and '40s with the exact tone and atmosphere that those films had has so much potential for something fresh.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

💯

[@Vor567tez]

Yes. As a horror lover I was interested in the idea. I think Universal should again give it a try ;with of course learning from past mistakes. When superhero gener hasn't stopped making a Batman and Spiderman movie for 100th of time then why should something that so rarely seen be given up? Universal also has money and audience. So no problem in there.

[@bezoticallyyours83]

I agree with that.

[@garavin]

Yeah, probably the best they could have hoped for was to make them all antiheroes of one sort or another. But swapping out the horror for just another version of the MCU or DCU was a doomed venture. Lightning doesn't strike thrice.

[@rybackfrankie8679]

The idea was good but they should have make it more like Blade or Underworld and less like Marvel movies.

[@Psychoshell]

The real problem the the mummy 2017 failed was that they gave Tom cruise too much control

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Yup!

[@roberttreacy8271]

The real monster on set was Tom Cruise’s ego.

[@antjack6192]

The real problem the mummy 2017 failed was they cast Tom cruise too being with

[@colonelhstinkmeaner8547]

He killed universal dark😂😂😂

[@dexine4723]

I think they also tried to do too much. If they'd focused on the mummy story and cut out a lot of the Russell Crowe/organization part, it might have worked better. It just felt like they were throwing in all these details and extra characters, which should have been introduced slowly, in separate films - like the MCU did with Nick Fury in post-credit scenes. Mind you, I do agree that Cruise was a mistake. It might have done better with someone younger, more believable as a romantic partner for the younger female lead or the mummy herself, and less 'fixed' in style.

[@Taranchule]

The Dark Universe was always a heartbreaker for me, both for the Pseudo-Superhero direction they took and because it all fell apart so quickly. I often daydream about what might have been. If I had my way, these movies would be dark, gothic and moody. Not gore or jumpscares, but a slowly building dread. The throughline would be Van Helsing researching the cause of all these monster manifesting all of a sudden (Chaos, for lack of a better name). The finale would haven been Monster Squad for adults, with all the monsters returning and Chaos manifesting in the flesh. Van Helsing would have to gather the protagonists of the other films to deal with this final threat. Cheesy idea, I know, but it appeals to me.

[@bezoticallyyours83]

Yeah but Talbot got killed in the remake. So there's no kicking him in the nards. 🤭

[@DeadlyAlienInvader]

Would you still keep the actress for the Mummy role? I thought she had potential and wanted to see more of her……………atleast to my weird taste.

[@Taranchule]

@@DeadlyAlienInvader Eh, I can take her or leave her if I'm honest.

[@unrepentantoffender188]

That is the Avengers 1 plot, give or take.

[@Taranchule]

@@unrepentantoffender188 I guess it kinda is. There's a reason I'm not a Hollywood script writer 😂

[@malcolmmilk]

This just reinforces what I have always believed: 1.) The MCU is both one of the BEST and WORST things to happen to cinema, creatively. 2.) A-listers have too much creative control sometimes, and writers, directors, and producers should be able to do what they are paid to do and have been brought on for: to make a successful film. 3.) Studios are out of touch, and more creative minds need to be a part of the producing/studio process, like how James Gunn (a creative) is co-CEO with Peter Safran (an experienced producer) for balance or even John Lasseter (who was an actual animator) back in the day, heading Pixar.

[@snoweverywhere]

Your third point reminded me of a quote I read from Christopher Nolan earlier this week. He essentially said Taylor Swift's concert movie is going to be a shock to a lot of Hollywood executives that an outsider could make so much money at the boxoffice. The part that stood out to me was that Nolan pointed out Hollywood execs being shocked. That's a key piece of information he felt the need to point out.

[@4Everlast]

I agree 100%. You can cut the cost of these movies by 50% and more, if you get lesser known and unknown actors on board, god knows writers and directors ain't payed nearly as much as some of them are worth, meanwhile you got your Kurtzman's and Goyer's who will F up anything they touch, twist and pervert it, not even understanding they did it.

[@snoweverywhere]

@4Everlast new and unknown talent is so important for so many reasons in front of and behind the camera. If for no other reason, than just to keep some people from getting comfortable in their patterns. I think some directors are at a point where their name on something is a detriment as much as a positive because half the audience feels like they're getting something they've already had before.

[@dragonrings14]

I would love to be wrong but I think DC giving James Gunn the reins as CEO is a bad idea. Creative people should not be in charge. Creative types need to have someone there to edit their work. The issue with modern studios is they edit too much, taking away the creativity that makes a movie shine. Really that is what makes a movie brilliant. The balance. But given the lunacy of James Gunn's announced DC slate, it is clear people are not stopping him and that will probably result in some truly bad movies.

[@4Everlast]

@@dragonrings14 I do agree, but, there are always exceptions. We'll see, I'm sure the only thing they'll keep him in check with is the budget and the profit.

[@Omar-wq9dz]

Apparently, an earlier script for The Mummy was really good, where the protagonist was a Navy Seal with a black ops team and the Mummy was buried in Iraq instead of Egypt

[@toughluck8012]

I would love to see that movie. So much potential. Hopefully one day we get to see it

[@a_spooky_j]

Are there mummies in Iraq?

[@balthazarasquith]

I think they should have one set in the 1930s with a manly dude with a woman who is a bookworm and kicks arse with her comic relief brother. I the sequels they could cast an ex wwe wrestler lol

[@yahnatanlevi6894]

Yes do your research

[@reeyees50]

Offesive as hell man

[@MarshalltheWarlock]

The Last Voyage of Demeter is the Dracula I want for a Dark Universe. I want horror. Not romance. Not heroics. Not comedy. I want to watch monsters.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Same here

[@Chuck_EL]

​​​@AgentGodzillaRP It has the same issue as Blue Beetle got , two great films but due to both Studios being tone deaf and trying to cash in on the MCU craze they lost that trust and people assume they're still trying to milk the "cinematic phrase" They keep sending mixed signals to us and won't give direct answers so now audiences won't see any films on the universal monsters or any dcu films It's gonna take a few years to get that trust back I said a while ago both studios need to butt out of let great horror and sci-fi minds take the helm

[@ethandoyle4978]

I was thinking the same thing , I personally enjoyed the last voyage of the Demeter and I think it along with Dracula untold and the wolf man (2011) would’ve been a great kick off to the dark universe.

[@bezoticallyyours83]

👏

[@kaponosucks]

I was gonna go watch that movie in theaters but it was pulled from theaters so quick

[@bren70403]

I really liked Dracula untold. Luke evans and Charles Dance was so good in that!

[@darrylskylar8757]

I agree, “Dracula Untold” was really good!

[@x340x]

agree. Van Helsing with Hugh Jackman was pretty great as well imho

[@ronankermit]

It definitely had potential, and there were some really cool moments. I just wish it was maybe 30 minutes longer, but that's coming from a massive fan of the historical Dracula.

[@houstonmunoz9862]

Definitely had potential luke eveans was good he had a Dracula look to him

[@ronankermit]

@@houstonmunoz9862 I think a reviewer at the time said something like "Evans has the ability to recite comic book-level dialogue with Shakespearean gravity", but in terms of visuals, it struck me at the time that he looks like a more handsome version of the historical figure, so spot on with the casting.

[@MiguelNdiweni]

Universal Studios can still reboot the Dark Universe if they stick to the horror tone like the original one.

[@derworfnet]

Personally, I would have preferred a number of Stand-alone Films that present, at most, *hints* that they are set in a shared Universe. Perhaps a post-credits-scene here and there. If audiences had reacted positively to that, they could have went ahead with their Dark Universe plan *eventually.* Because, in all fairness, it is a cool idea. Ah, and I think there should have been a film centered around Crowes' Jeckyll/Hyde because, without a doubt, he was the best thing about the 2017-Mummy and I would have loved to see more of him.

[@dexine4723]

He definitely needed his own film - his appearance in the Mummy just cluttered it up and broke up the main storyline. Trying to do too much, too soon, in one film, instead of telling a coherent story.

[@muntu1221]

One thing Marvel did really well was loosely tie these stories together with the Tesseract. Pretty much all early Avengers characters had some relationship to it, even if it looked like they didn't, and they used stylistic effects to make it clear. The Arc Reactor and gamma research were based on it, for example. And you can see that in the big explosion at the end of Avengers looking like the sky beam in Captain America. They could've used some kind of immortality elixir, or at least the search for it, to tie these movies together since almost all of them have to do with gaining a stronger, longer lived body.

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

Agreed. I’m a big horror buff and was pretty excited that all these monsters were getting a reboot/have a chance to have modern effects and gore. It could’ve been an awesome horror franchise and could’ve allowed for some cross overs like Universal did in the 40s and 50s. But the idea of a superhero team is just silly. Makes more sense if they all were portrayed as a team of monsters/super villains albeit with tragic origins. Although now you’d have heroes banding together take down all your stars. Also it kind of just reminds me too much of league of extraordinary gentlemen. I’d still kill for some solid rebooting where the monsters could shine in the lime light again, with much stronger horror tones

[@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom]

My cousin had a pitch for the Dark Universe similar to that. His Mummy movie would've been set during late 1910s-1920s between Egypt and England. Atmospheric and slowburner. His Invisible Man movie would've set during 1950s Cold War, combining noir and horror, but heavier on the former. This one would borrow some convetions from movies during that period, also being black and white. I forgot his pitch on the other monsters though. But the monsters never get to meet. They're only related by worldbuilding, not by plot.

[@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805]

They should have given blumhouse the reigns for the entire 'dark universe', I'd love to see their take on the classic monsters.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Agreed. Maybe they still will.

[@scottblanco5991]

That would be great, they’d build it right

[@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805]

@@scottblanco5991 they'd probably make dr frankenstein a longevity guru used by the elites. he'd be a mix between elizabeth bathory, bryan johnson (the fella who spends 2 million per year to reverse aging) and jeffrey epstein. the creepy thing would be that the elites use him but no one knows (like jeffrey epsteins mosad blackmail operation) it's be like 'hostel' meets 'eyes wide shut' meets 'the master' meets 'you were never really here'

[@TheGuyInTheCheapSeats]

No. Just no. Look at what they did to Michael Myers.

[@4Everlast]

Speaking of it. Didn't MCU release a werewolf movie recently, called Werewolf by night (2022.) ? It's got quite a high grade on all platforms.

[@agm5424]

If anyone's interested in a real "dark universe" series then I highly recommend the series Penny Dreadful. A great gothic series with unique and close to faithfull adaptations of most of the classic Universal monsters. Also I'm referring to the original series with Eva Green as the main character not the "city of angels" reebot; just stay away from that one.

[@jedodedo]

I am SAD and ANGRY when they cancelled the series

[@rodneyhayban4398]

Do u know anymore

[@AGothNamedWednessday]

Oh man, I loved so much of Penny Dreadful; the first season was immaculate, and I loved the tone and all the actors. Unfortunately I felt that it really started falling apart in the last half of season 2 and I remember really disliking season 3. I think I'll rewatch it eventually sometime. I had the same issue with Hemlock Grove which I felt very similar about, that show feels very similar in tone, acting, and horror, but couldn't stick the landing. (That being said, I highly agree that Penny Dreadful is a fantastic "dark universe" and it's something I wish we had gotten from universal)

[@MrYourtoaster]

For anyone who’s a fan of TTRPGs like Dungeons & Dragons and wants a “Dark Universe” game more focused on being a monster in modern day I recommend Chronicles of Darkness and it’s gamelines. A modern day horror game where supernatural creatures like Vampires, Werewolves, Mages, Frankensteins, Changelings, monster hunters, geists, mummies, robotic demons, nightmare beasts, mutants and several other monsters hide in the shadows trying to survive a dark supernatural world. Every monster I listed has their own dedicated game and there’s plenty of opportunities for crossovers. If you wanna play an ancient powerful mummy waking up to serve a god, or a Frankenstein creature using its powers to become human this is the series for you.

[@A_r78]

Penny dreadful was bad They made the zoot suit a bunch of gay Mexicans Whole lot of unnecessary gayness Like Why

[@a_spooky_j]

I really wanted the Dark Universe to be a thing. However, I’m now willing to accept modern day interpretations of the classic monsters as standalone films such as Invisible Man. They talked about an Invisible Woman sequel and there was talk about a Wolfman movie alá Nightcrawler. I’d be happy with any of those.

[@Omar-wq9dz]

The main problem with The Mummy, though there's many problems with it, was too much setting up the future where the story was put on hold to show easter eggs like Creature From The Black Lagoon's hand in a jar and the scene where Russell Crowe turns into Mr. Hyde

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Agreed. As soon as you start focusing on setting up a universe rather than just making a great movie, you’re screwed.

[@ivanraphaelarosa2369]

@@BulletsandblockbustersSame could be applied to the TASMverse after TASM 2.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

💯

[@Xinathor]

​@Bulletsandblockbusters I think what really worked with the original iron man and later phase one movies they primarily remained stand alone until the very end of the film

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Agreed!

[@sneakykamon]

I remember, and to my surprise, really wanting to see Johnny Depp’s version of The Invisible Man. That was the only casting choice that intrigued me the most for some reason.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Same here

[@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805]

Im glad they went the way they did and didnt have an A-list celeb star as the invisible man, it would have gotten the same treatment as the mummy and had a very visible johnny depp for 90 minutes.

[@bezoticallyyours83]

Depp is a versatile actor, I could see him in several roles.

[@ScooterinAB]

We could see him covered in peanut butter at some point to reveal his form. :P Oh Depp. You're kind of a weirdo sometimes.

[@richardjohnson9543]

Marvel built their connected universe from the ground up, with a solid foundation. These other guys just tried to create the whole thing at once with nothing holding it together. I actually liked The Mummy, and I appreciated the fact that nothing in it contradicts the Brendan Frasier movies. In fact, there's an Easter egg suggesting that Cruise's film takes place in the same universe

[@NoahDaArk]

Yeah, what made the MCU work was how willing Marvel was to building up the story & world over multiple movies, setting things up in the long run & giving fans the opportunity to speculate about what was coming next

[@MrLachapell]

"Solid foundation " lol

[@GRANOLA77]

What was the Easter egg?

[@randyramirez4408]

​@@NoahDaArk honestly it's just weird seeing it fall apart in its current: two flops, four razzie award nominations, two movies with bad RT scores, five of them having a B cinemascore (which is not something you do not want to have for a blockbuster, especially a super hero one) all post phase 3

[@JamesHowlett-qy3yq]

Well,earlier Marvel movies were very loosely connected. They just focused more on stories

[@stepanovicboro]

Man i really liked dracula untold and im pretty annoyed they didnt do a sequel. It wouldnt even had to be dark universe sequel, just a luke evans dracula movie 😕

[@jordanwhyte3347]

Have they not just announced a sequel?

[@Malum09]

The Development Post-Mummy 2017 related to Universal Monsters has been so interesting: 1. Guillermo del Toro released The Shape of Water later that same year and it was a huge hit, supposedly its based on an idea Universal rejected for a Creature of the Black Lagoon remake; in fact he’s making his own version of Frankenstein for Netflix right now. 2. Maggie Gyllenhaal is also working on her own adaptation of The Bride of Frankenstein for Warner Bros.

[@Josh93582]

I always though that Guillermo del Toro or Tim Burton should have been the ones in charge of the Dark Universe

[@Malum09]

@@Josh93582 I think del Toro would have been perfect to run the whole Boat, Direct one and Write and Produce the others with people of his choice in the Directing chair.

[@Josh93582]

@@Malum09 Yeah, completely agree

[@jaymz_rg1003]

If it was me running this universe, I'd just re-tell the stories with today's actors (I love Angelina Jolie as Bride of Frankenstein, by the way) and updated CGI. I'd even go as far as to make standalone movies first like they did in the '30s and '40s and then do the first crossover of Frankenstein Meets The Wolfman. I would also focus on the psychological aspect of the movies which is what these movies are known for and not try to make them into damn superhero movies. I love Marvel and DC movies, but these classic monsters need to be something different.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

You def have the right idea

[@roderick8167]

it crazy that Universal has been trying and failing to launch a monster cinematic universe by having all their monsters meet up when they already accomplished this with Van Helsing almost 20 years ago , I mean you got Dracula, The Wolfman ( two Wolfmen) , Frankenstein's monster , Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and Dracula Brides all in this one movie, the only ones missing from this movie was Frankenstein's bride, The Invisible Man , The Mummy and the Creature from the Black Lagoon so if they managed to somehow fit these monsters in this movie or put them in a sequel that never happened then they would have had their cinematic universe decades ago

[@scoliosis9478]

Yea I think the best version of a dark universe would be a series of films with Hugh Jackman’s Van Helsing facing off against one of the iconic monsters in each film

[@levongevorgyan6789]

You had it with the original versions too. Frankenstein meets the Wolfmam, and the Abott and Costello movies.

[@jonathancampbell5231]

"Dark Universe" was one of those franchises where as soon as I heard the concept and saw the publicity photo I though, "this gonna flop". Who the heck wanted to see a superhero horror monster franchise, and what possible direction could it have taken? Weird how studios that want to replicate the MCU missed the part where most of the main actors were either relative unknowns or hadn't been big names in a long time, as well.

[@harrycake9407]

I would've love too watch it. They have so much fun back story to flesh out.

[@BigDaddyDiecast]

Lest we forget films like League of extraordinary gentlemen, perhaps Hellboy? I definitely would love to see a more adult version or the monster squad, spread over a few films respectfully.

[@jonathancampbell5231]

@@BigDaddyDiecast The Dark Universe was different from either of them. The problem was a) They wanted an all-star, A-list cast (which would have been VERY expensive in the long term and actually distract from the main story), and b). they wanted the monster characters to be the stars and for said monsters to be reimagined as anti-heroes. A more sensible approach would have been to just remake the old Universal horror movies with a smaller budget and lesser known cast and just bank on the name recognition and story appeal to grab audience attention, and worry about crossovers later. Making Dracula, The Mummy and Dr Jekyll into superheroes was just a misunderstanding of what they had, and wanting big stars just reflected a lack of faith in their own projects from the start.

[@ryeguy7471]

I thought Dracula Untold was surprisingly GOOD and the changed ending worked better for the movie, not just for a shared universe.

[@TridentLandStudios]

Such a shame this never happened. One of the most anticipated projects I was interested in. Dracula Untold was a beautiful film that to me was building something so much bigger. Crowe's Jekyll/Hyde was a great tease of things to come. So we can essential blame Cruise for micromanaging this as a failure.

[@akilbrazier1421]

Yea if they were smart they would’ve made Dracula Untold the first official entry of the Dark Universe and built off of that.

[@TridentLandStudios]

Big Facts!! Loved that film

[@jon_ovo3653]

@@TridentLandStudiosit’s literally the best of the films and my personal favorite vampire film

[@cable7152]

I too am in the Dracula Untold fan club, there's not many of us out there.

[@shawnbrown2726]

loved Dracula Untold. It is an awesome flick

[@octogigas]

The idea of Dr. Jekyll creating a monster-hunting agency is legitimately awesome. And even though The Mummy wasn't great, I didn't think it was THAT bad and was at least curious about where they were going with it. Since Bride of Frankenstein was already so far into pre-production that sets were being built, I think they should've pushed ahead with that one, let it play out and see if there was any potential for upward growth, before panicking and pulling the plug.

[@Not_Always]

they were in essence trying to make the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, or Hellboy, but with movie monsters.

[@octogigas]

@@Not_Always Yeah. And that sounds badass.

[@PlaystationNinja-nj8is]

Sofia Boutella is my favorite mummy. She was perfectly cast. But the entire Dark Universe was undone by Tom Cruise 's ego.

[@Blades-wi4fk]

Agreed 100%, I would have rather seen her as the star and main focus of the movie, not Cruise

[@DemeterTelphousia-Erinyes]

Agreed!

[@darinlunderman8063]

Interestingly, the film's story can actually be seen as an allegory for Sofia Boutella trying to lead a Hollywood film, only to be undercut & overwhelmed by the veteran, big name actor in Tom Cruise and be regulated back to being a supporting actor in the end. It's truly a "Dark Universe" in Hollywood when the establishment can just shut down newer & smaller names in the industry, all because they have the power to do so.

[@an-animal-lover]

​@@darinlunderman8063yeah, I haven't seen her in any leading roles. A shame if you ask me

[@handphone77]

The problem with The Mummy was Tom Cruise trying to turn it into a Mission Impossible spin-off and tuning the role into Ethan Hurt to suit him. His character isn't supposed to be the main focus.

[@mrhmd8308]

The Wolfman (2010) was the BEST of these films. I liked how they recaptured the tone. You have to go back to that Victorian age.

[@Tinfintytin]

Yeah, calling it abysmal was a horrible take.

[@sethstrattan7380]

I agree. I love that movie a lot.

[@cofilmrat]

Anytime I hear someone call 2010's Wolfman "abysmal" or "awful" I'm pretty sure they didn't watch it. The Extended/Directors cut of that movie is great.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Maybe I’ll give the directors cut a chance. Was also taking into consideration its notoriously troubled production

[@codygill6535]

Exactly! I refuse to watch the theatrical cut but the extended cut is one of my favorite films

[@DrewTrox]

I think for the Dark Universe to work you need to make the monsters the leads, but don't make them anti-heroes. They are monsters that team up in order to survive the hunters like Van Helsing. What's that line? A well written villain is the hero of their own story. Just do that. Don't make them sympathetic, or try to justify their actions. This is how you shake up the horror world. Don't make the final girl the lead, it's the killer. Like, the last Invisible Man was well done, but imagine it from his persective.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Agreed!

[@DrewTrox]

@@Bulletsandblockbusters I think we are getting close to this with stuff like the Chucky series, M3gan, Terrifier, Saw. The badguys are starting to take the lead.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

I love it

[@bezoticallyyours83]

Frankenstein has always garnered some sympathy from audiences. The original Mummy was also somewhat sympathetic. He really just wanted the love of his life back. Unfortunately he wanted to do it by screwed up means. The Gill Man was literally just a creature trying to defend its territory.

[@Bullboy_Adventures]

Why does everyone like the invisible man? They had to make the characters ridiculously stupid so the plot could move forward, which imo is one of the cardinal sins of writing

[@ojmatthew]

I was an Extra in London as one of Russell Crowe's armed agents. I saw Tom Cruise go crazy shouting at the directors & producers on set (similar to his covid mask outburst). In hindsight it's clear to see he was under a lot of pressure to try make this Dark Universe a success. He apparently invested a lot of money into it as well.

[@Not_Always]

They should've hired a much younger actor.

[@MistarZtv]

man a gothic dark romance style bride of frankenstein with jolie would've been such a gorgeous film.

[@jennifern2403]

same, i’m a sucker for gothic romance

[@GUNUFofficial]

The mcu rocketed away so the dark universe could slip on a banana peel and fall down a cliff into a field of cactus weilding chainsaws.

[@TheBS1000]

I would rather rewatch Penny Dreadful than see Universal's Dark Universe come to fruition. PD did a great job combining elements of Dracula, Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, The Wolfman and even The Picture of Dorian Gray. The only negative thing I have say about the show is its truncated final season ended right after introducing the Dr Jekyll character and before we got to see another character's trip to Egypt, which presumably would have introduced elements of The Mummy into the series. The show may have had a definitive ending, but it felt premature and I can only speculate as to why it ended when it did.

[@elphbwckd212]

Dracula: Untold is actually surprisingly good. I know it got some bad reviews when it first came out, but I've watched it several times now and it's actually a really good movie. If only they had planned better. I would love to see more of Luke Evans' Dracula. He's very compelling when given the chance through writing

[@moonbeans7042]

Three ways the dark universe could have been good. 1)If it had used The Mummy(1999) as its starting point. 2)If it had been a continuation of the original universal monsters continuity from the 30s. 3) If had taken the Avp or freddy vs jason approach. So the monsters get pure horror solo introduction movies and then the crossover movies are horror action extravaganzas. So the dark universe wolfman or mummy movies would end up being scary horror films and then when the audience sees the next film is titled The Wolfman Vs The Mummy they know in advance that its gonna be a bit tongue in cheek and OTT.

[@jgrAnimations23]

Or Dracula untold as the starting point

[@moonbeans7042]

@@jgrAnimations23 I enjoyed parts of Dracula Untold and with some tweaks to a follow-up it could have been used as a springboard for a cinematic universe (ditto the wolfman reboot which I also enjoyed) but The Mummy (1999) has a lot more nostalgia and general audience appeal to bring to the table. Some people would have been excited for a dracula untold follow up but I can guarantee there is a large amount of casual movie-goers who would enthusiastically turn out if you told them universal was getting the mummy (1999) cast back for a bunch of movies. Also there's the bonus that they could find ways in the franchise to bring The Rock (Scorpion King), Hugh Jackman (Van Helsing), Jet Li (Dragon Emperor), and Kate Beckinsale (Anna Valerous) into the mix too. Neither Dracula Untold or the wolfman has that many big names apart from the leads that they could rope in to a shared universe.

[@blue_storybook3230]

That leaked Mummy trailer with no sounds other than yelling and noises kinda foreshadowed the falling of the Dark Universe 😂

[@adrianthearmorwarrior1605]

The Dark Universe could've had potential if they were slow and careful of what they were doing. That should be the first rule of doing a cinematic universe. And another rule is don't make the monsters into superheroes because that really stupid.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

1000%

[@OtakuUnderground92]

Dracula Untold is underrated. I wish we could get a sequel.

[@ChevonJBenzo]

So underrated! Luke Evans deserved better.

[@marynaloboda4922]

Watched Abigail movie today. Absolutely 100% loved it. Immediately thought that it can be a perfect reboot of Monsterverse. Universal, do it. Abigail has opened so many opportunities.

[@davidjames579]

It's funny to realise that The Mummy movies were basically MCU films before MCU. If only they could have kept it going.

[@roberttreacy8271]

While I don’t find The Mummy (2017) as bad as some make it out to be, it certainly left a lot to be desired.

[@detroitdiezel7856]

Agreed. I found it entertaining. But it came off as Ethan Hunt meets the Bride of The Mummy action flick, more than a true classic horror adaptation of "The Mummy".

[@jesustovar2549]

@@detroitdiezel7856 It felt more like they wanted to live up to Brendan Fraser's The Mummy saga.

[@tomlathrop5382]

personally I thought the Mummy was the best part of that movie, definitely needed more screen time, same with the Wolfman remake the story sucked but the Wolfman was horrifying just like people here are commenting these are monsters , hell that Sony Morbius movie missed that point as well make him a monster

[@akilbrazier1421]

It wasn’t even necessarily bad tbh, it was just a generic popcorn action movie.

[@rachelknightonline]

What I still don’t understand is why not just make Tom Cruise a descendent of Van Helsing? Doing that cuts all the unnecessary work and streamlines it all. Say that Cruises character had spent his early life preparing for and getting ready for an invasion of the supernatural into our world, but he never believed in any of the things he was trained to do. He’s a sceptic, and after being the latest in generations of so called monster hunters not hunting or even fighting any monsters, he gave up on his “mission” years ago and is now just using his wealth and training to explore the world. He’s not a clear cut hero, he can be selfish, older even, someone who never settled down to have a family; because why would he need or even want to? He feels like a man born for a purpose that would never come to fruition and so he just does his own thing. If you’re so set on having a superhero figure in the universe, say he’s been like Batman but out of boredom. He wants to care, but doesn’t really know how to. His latest exploits with a gang of grave robbers and tomb raiders has lead him to Egypt where he sees a doomsday cult is abducting people to sacrifice in order to resurrect a mummy. During this Cruises character doesn’t know if what they’re doing will even work, but can’t just let them keep doing this to people. Eventually this mummy is resurrected and he has to use his knowledge of mummy’s and the supernatural to bury her in her tomb before she escapes the pyramid. During the movie he finds a sense of purpose and belief that these monsters are real and they mean serious business if not kept in check. Or more interestingly, at the end of the movie after the mummy is defeated we see that him neglecting his responsibilities for so long has allowed an ancient enemy to slowly regain his strength and is looking to return and now it is up to Cruises Van Helsing character to set the world right before this monster can become unstoppable. This monster is your Thanos of the universe, *DRACULA*

[@nd9814]

As soon as you said Kurtzman was in charge I knew it was already over haha

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

LMAO

[@atavious2491]

Let's also not forget that there were also the Hotel Transylvania movies. Even though it was for kids and families, the general concept was already there for modernizing the Universal monsters and proved to have been a popular approach rather than still trying to be faithful to their roots. Another factor to this was that all these characters were technically in the public domain, so many other studios were already doing their own spin on these well known monsters. Usually these new interpretations went in completely different routes that weren't necessarily aimed towards horror. Hence why we have a bunch of Halloween decorations depicting cheaper copyright free versions of these characters and see so many references to them in so many TV shows. I heard that we were going to get a Creature From The Black Lagoon remake back in the 2000s but we instead got Guillermo Del Toro's Shape of Water which is essentially that remake and what I consider to be another unofficial instalment to these recent attempts of a shared Dark Universe. With movies like Lisa Frankenstein and Nicolas Cage's Reinfield (which by the way, Cage certainly does look like Bela Lugosi, the 1931 Dracula), I've also heard that another Frankenstein movie is on the way that's starring Oscar Isaac and Andrew Garfield. It seems that there really is no interest in bringing back these characters for a shared universe like how it was back in the 1930s - 1940s and rather it's best to just do standalone funny parodies of these characters, as it has always been the case before the superhero cinematic universe of the 2010s. Curse you Marvel and DC. You destroyed Hollywood!!

[@AlBerto-sm2ob]

Just hearing what could have been the Bride of Frankenstein sounds absolutely perfect. That entire ensemble sounds like a home run! But that’s what Universal gets for running before learning on how to walk.

[@thegreatcthulhu8049]

It was flawed but I've always loved 2010's The Wolfman; specifically the Unrated edition. Aside from the sequel tease at the end, it felt like it's own story and nothing more. And the practical effects still look amazing!

[@brandonfj5811]

Yeah I don't think it was fair to say the movie was abysmal there's still quality to it

[@jelliscorpio]

I think that The Monster Squad was the last version we saw of the horror ensemble! I'd love an updated dark universe, just get the writer/director Leigh Whannell who did Upgrade and Invisible Man to plan it all out. Or, if Del Toro to do it, if he's already done the Creature from the Black Lagoon (in Shape of Water) and is making Frankenstein.

[@MonsterIslandBuddies]

I love this channel, it's going to be huge one day. Keep up the great work

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Thank you. I appreciate that!

[@Sharks696]

Eyyyy mib

[@gallibon1319]

Didn't expect to see you here. Awesome!

[@IronWolf277]

Cinematic Universes are fine, just don't ask me to watch a bunch of TV Shows as Homework. Thats why Marvel is failing now.

[@patcasey5515]

Charles Band's Full Moon Pictures was crossing over their original characters in several films in the 90s. The golden age of home video 👍

[@sadev101]

cruise screaming in silence . gold

[@WhatzHappeningNow9]

As a horror fan, the mishandling of the Dark Universe broke my heart

[@OGEdger]

Wow, it's almost like people want to see good movies instead of 2 hour long advertisements for an upcoming film.

[@rimfire8217]

Honestly that Bride of Frankenstein idea sounds Amazing.

[@jeremywilson5296]

Dracula untold was actually entertaining, I wanted to see the second one. And Invisible man was great.

[@robertw31968]

I hate that the MonsterVerse didn't work. The 1930's monsters are still some of my favorite movies of all time. The Wolfman, Frankenstein, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Dracula, Invisible Man, Mummy, Dr Jeckel and Mr Hyde, Phantomof the Opra, and others i missed. I loved those movies.

[@kristianhurtado8207]

Love how Tom cruise’s casting basically doomed what could have been an incredible universe

[@yusuf_aleem]

It's such a shame that it turned out this way, as it could've been amazing! Hope they go back to it with Blumhouse one day!

[@R1ch4d8]

Think the main thing that made the idea of the Dark Universe inherently unappealing is it was taking a bunch of horror icons and running with them being big spectacle blockbuster action characters. Even if they had horror elements, their main selling point was gonna be big CGI action. They really should keep them small-scale straight-up horror films.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Agreed. Stick to horror.

[@TheZackshow]

This is my favorite new channel, I have been loving the insight into unsuccessful or forgotten media

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Thanks!

[@MephProduction]

The 2010 wolfman was awesome, it's exactly what the dark universe reboot should have been. Gothic horror.

[@itswilbur3747]

We'll always have Monster Squad 🙂

[@makokx7063]

Wolfman's got nards!

[@ThisIsEloy3]

It really sucks that this big project died out so fast, makes you think what would have happened if they focused on these individual stories first before trying to intertwine a full universe, not to mention moving away from the traditional horror that each of these monster movies were so iconic for establishing. I do hope that Universal and Blumhouse are able to reignite this concept with the same vision they had in mind with “The Invisible Man”, especially with the reinvigoration of popular horror in the current film space, it would be awesome to see Universal’s Classic Monsters finally get a modern reimagining that pays real homage to their classic roots.

[@cc_films]

This is the one universe I wish was started no matter how poor the first few films performed

[@rushabhgautam1337]

Really felt bad for Alex Kurtzman, he became the side director in his own movie.Felt like he was really sad cause universal almost promised him a universe and he failed at his first movie. Now i understand why marvel adds jokes in their movie cause the person who is watching it for the first time can't get bored.Dark Universe could have been the best francise because it was meant for the adults,and seeing the casting choice it would have been great.

[@Comegetmebitch]

Don’t feel bad for him, heses a hack

[@rushabhgautam1337]

@@Comegetmebitch Why buddy? Cause i know nothing about him other than being director of this movie and Star trek reboot movies writer

[@Giran_0]

Destroy All Monsters was the first avengers

[@NothingIsKnown00]

I wonder how the Dark Universe would have turned out if they had skipped the “team” part, and just left these monsters as partly evil, partly good anti-heroes. In some movies they could be enemies, in others they could be allies. Each movie could have a bigger focus on plot and stakes instead of just the bland Marvel heroes.

[@CDHfilms]

So if there were a crossover/team up what would happen? Would Van Helsing assemble, The Frankenstein monster, The mummy, The Black lagoon creature, The werewolf and the invisible man so they could fight Dracula and an army of bat people as they try to invade New-Yor- I mean uhh... Transylvania?

[@ivane5110]

Shame that they didn't either stick with the Mummy franchise a cornerstone of a shared universe or just embrace the monster concept and ignore walking step-in-step in Marvel's shadow. I especially would've loved seeing Gary Oldman's Dracula in the mix.

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Would’ve been awesome to see him back

[@storyteller618]

Ngl that wolfman transformation was always awesome for me. Movie wasn’t great but that transformation was fire. And the one at the end when he was frighting his pops.

[@chrislempesis842]

I knew this would be good and it was! Well done again, man!

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Thanks!

[@sillyscarer2]

Universal Blumhouse's Monsterverse is the new Universal's Dark Universe! In fact, the 2020 film called The Invisible Man started the new franchise of Universal Blumhouse's Monsterverse

[@MrDrewseph]

I still enjoy Van Helsing Good movie

[@numba2bvi]

Johnny Depp as the Invisible Man would have been PERFECT!!

[@dcb_75]

Shocker, Alex Kurtzman is involved in another massive failure 😂 I can't totally blame him as the studio makes the decisions but it is funny how he is involved in both this and Star Trek - 2 reboots that totally missed their mark because they were trying to change their franchise into something else, hoping to copy their success. If you hear reboot and Kurtzman, don't waste your time(right Clarice). I can understand them wanting to expand things a bit but in the end these are monsters and that's what people want to see - you can't stray away from that. No one wants to see them as reluctant antiheroes, no one wants to see the Bride as some modern feminist, that's not their appeal. It is so weird that studios keep doing that to their franchises, changing things to appeal to a "wider" audience at the expense of their current one when everytime they do that, it is a failure.

[@ryeguy7471]

At this point, Kurtzman should be out somewhere selling fabrics.👎

[@dcb_75]

@@ryeguy7471 yeah, but he would sell you fine silk only for burlap to show up

[@brianmcguinness9642]

The monster hero idea reminds me of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Hiring Kurtzman is always a mistake. He has no clue how to tell a story. A well-designed horror universe with Universal's monsters would be very appealing.

[@justinamerican8200]

I'm tired of everything being a "shared universe", but I think the Universal Monsters lend themselves to these for the reasons you list. I'd like to see them take another (better) bite at the apple.

[@DarkcIoud1111.]

As iconic and popular as Dracula is, I've always been a fan of Frankenstein's monster and have always been a bit disappointed how few films do him justice. While the monster started out as nothing more than a brainless brute, he eventually gained intelligence and cunning, coming to his father to make him a companion and hunts him to the ends of the earth when he is denied. It is a shame that one of his most faithful adaptations was from the Van Helsing movie mentioned in this video; I would love to see a version of Frankenstein being hunted by his creation.

[@remyraymay]

Of course Tom ruined it for everyone…😒

[@moviewolverine89]

As someone who was raised on the classic monster movies by my grandpa, it annoyed the piss out of me that they tried to distill such icons of horror down into a bunch of CGI superhero knockoffs.

[@richborn6700]

You lost me as soon as I heard Channing Tatum was going go be Van Helsing

[@TheJohhnyE]

I just picture him showing up and doing the "my name if jeff" line from 21 jumpstreet. 😂

[@weid1888]

I wish they continued these movies. I liked them.

[@ken81682]

They should have just given control of the dark universe to Guillermo del toro

[@TheJohhnyE]

It would have failed and been scrapped before production. The guy is cursed. He has had almost as many projects fall apart before production than he has had movies released. I will never stop being disappointed and kinda mad his adaptation of HP Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness never got made.

[@ChrisDeVarro]

Dracula untold was so good it was basically just castlevania lords of shadow and forget the monster universe, I would love to see a Dracula untold sequel.

[@CRUELLANDER]

I really wanted to see this come to life. But unfortunately it never came and probably never will which is unfortunately. Honeslty it should’ve never be another superhero universe, I think the superhero genre has expanded to the point where it has ruined other franchises. Honestly the Dark Universe which I think should been called the “Universal Monster Universe” could’ve been successful and they should try again with it but keeping the Gothic horror or Sci-fi horror like The Invisible Man from 2020. I think there are many directors and writers that would be perfect like Jordan Peele with Nope, Us, & Get Out, John Krasinski with A Quiet Place 1 & 2, Parker Finn with Smile, Leigh Whannel with Saw & The Invisible Man, James DeMonaco with the Purge franchise, Kevin Greutert with Saw X, Anthony Scott with Come True, Aneesh Chaganty & Sev Ohanian with Run. from 2020, Sam Raimi with the Evil Dead Trilogy & Dragging to Hell, Andres Muschietti with It & It: Chapter 2, Alex Hirsch with Gravity Falls, Lee Cronin with Evil Dead Rise, Tim Burton with Beetlejuice & Corpse Bride, Henry Selick with Nightmare before Christmas, Neil Gaiman with Coraline, & more. I don’t know about James Wan tho, he’s sort of been falling a bit. But I hope someday they try again #UniversalMonsterUniverse

[@peek-a-boos]

Invisible Man really nailed it. I wish they'd reboot instead of remake the potential franchise.

[@melindawolfUS]

Gothic romance would have been a better twist on the original dark universe: what Guillermo Del Toro did in the Shape of Water is a PERFECT example

[@Drums_of_Liberation]

God no. We do not need to turn classic monsters into the second coming of Twilight🤮

[@melindawolfUS]

@Drums_of_Liberation Gothic romance doesn't mean monster-loving. It doesn't even mean the protag will pair with anyone. Look up Gothic romance: it's romanticizing the dark and "gothic", NOT a m/f romance set in the gothic period. The monster pairing was unique to shape of water. But I'd still call it a bit of a gothic romance based on the tone, themes, etc. Although it was an unconventional one... i brought it up because of it's similarlies and shared inspiration from the Dark Universe. Crimson peak was Del Toro's example of a traditional gothic romance

[@TheJohhnyE]

The problem is that I'm pretty sure Guillermo Del Toro is cursed. He has had so many promising projects fall apart and not happen. Pretty sure he wronged a gypsy at some point in his life. 😂 I'm still mad his planned movie adaptation of HP Lovecraft's At the Mountains of Madness fell apart and never got made.

[@Omar-wq9dz]

Dark Universe might have worked better if it just made standalone movies, with each 1 being about a separate monster with tiny allusions to show a universe connection, instead of having an overarching story over several films

[@Bulletsandblockbusters]

Agreed and also they should’ve been horror films

[@roberttreacy8271]

I agree.

[@TheJohhnyE]

That's what every attempt at an mcu style universe has failed at. They always want to jump immediately to the Avengers without doing iron man, captain America and Thor first.

[@SailHatinSoap]

I think they should do a legacy sequel to brendan frasers the mummy but now add Dracula and Frankenstein to the mix. Everywhere they go there are more monsters to fight!

[@kevwolf69]

Thanks for this. What a great explanation of the shenanigans around this subject. I'm looking forward to the Universal Monsters area at the new Florida adventure land. But I'm thinking they'll even mess this up and not use the screen characters of Karloff, Lugosi and Chaney Jr. If they go for their usual cartoony/stylized modern brand of monster design I'll be passing big time. I just hope at some point they decide to do the right thing and hire a writer that can shine love on these stories. I live in hope....

[@jw_gojifan19]

Not only was the Dark Universe dead on arrival, but the fact that 2017’s Mummy started out with the words, Dark Universe, proved that it was desperate to start a franchise. That, and having Tom Cruise as the lead was not the best choice. At least the MonsterVerse started out solid then branched out, even though G’14 left no implications of any sequels. And, when it was at its peak, the MCU was fantastic with few duds. Just a shame that even the greats have fallen. Really, only the MonsterVerse has kept my attention as I am a fan of creature features. If the Dark Universe were to have any senses of fear and dread like the old Universal films, then look no further than Invisble Man and Last Voyage of the Demeter. No misunderstood monsters, no monster heroes, just monsters being monsters with themes and messages.

[@Future_Imperfect]

Dracula Untold was criminally underrated and was a great movie. Fight Me.

[@revol_000]

Nah man, I won't fight you - I totally agree. Dracula Untold (2014) is one of the best movies about Dracula 👍

[@Future_Imperfect]

@@revol_000 I have yet to meet anyone that has seen that movie and didn't like it. I honestly don't understand what went wrong with its release and reception.

[@revol_000]

​@@Future_Imperfect from what I heard, people who didn't like it complain about the movie portraying Dracula as a "superhero" instead of a "real monster". Well, in my opinion this movie achieved perfect consensus between a protagonist who you can root for & fearsome force you wouldn't want to mess with

[@Future_Imperfect]

@@revol_000 That's interesting since it came out after Twilight, Interview with a Vampire and a literal superheroes Vampire Blade, with all of those being wildly successful.

[@revol_000]

​@@Future_ImperfectYea. That's why honestly this whole "superhero" argument doesn't make any sense. Dracula Untold is just a great movie, with great story, acting and visuals.

[@thatonkgau5221]

Dracula Untold should've been the beginning of the Dark universe they should've started slow with a trilogy. Then they would've built up a universe slowly.

[@donaldduck73]

I'd say two Dracula movies at best before a crossover

[@melindawolfUS]

These monsters don't scare us anymore; I don't think horror is the right angle with them, either. I'd take it into gothic romance :) Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992) is my favorite old monster movie because it DOES swing more romantic. And the mummy movies with Brendon Frasier were also built on a similar tone, though with more humor. The romance is the heart of both films and stands as a motivation. I would have hired Guillermo Del Toro to re-imagine each monster. He already started with the Shape of Water and knocked it out of the park!

[@SilvLocs]

Honestly would still love to see it realized in some way shape or form those are obviously some of the best actors

[@Allen2saint]

Why was everyone so obsessed with creating their own Nick Fury? It makes no sense. What a train wreck.

[@David-bw7is]

I actually really enjoyed Dracula Untold and thought Van Helsing was an excellent campy fun film, I even thought the Mummy 2017 was pretty good....But now you highlight the input Cruise had over the Mummy, something I didn't realise at the time, I now see it completely different, it was a Tom Cruise film, and just like all Cruise's films, he was the hero and everything revolved around him, even Crowe who is 10x the actor Cruise is was made to play second fiddle to this Cruise vehicle....Ah well, another hard re-boot in the next few years then. :-)

[@AlbertoFolres]

Let Memo del Toro directs his dark universe, god dammit!

[@TheJohhnyE]

But it would never happen. People ignore that that guy is cursed. He has as many movies get canceled has he has had movie be made. Pretty sure he wronged a gypsy at some point. 😂

[@matthewstoneback9]

If Tom Cruise had wanted to headline a horror movie, why couldn't he have just reprised his role as Lestat de Lioncourt?😫

[@COMICSCOFFEEMETAL]

For anyone curious, there's a fantastic Podcast called ARE YOU AFRAID OF THE DARK UNIVERSE where a couple writers take the mantle of continuing the DARK UNIVERSE starting from the THE MUMMY. It's incredibly entertaining.

[@wolfielee11]

It's always wild to me that Dracula Untold and the Wolfman(2010) weren't seen as viable shared universe launch points when they both did the "sympathetic monster that fights a greater threat" concept better than the Mummy reboot. I can't help but think bringing in a ton of A-Listers is exponentially worse than using slightly lesser known names like Luke Evans and Benicio Del Toro who, in my opinion, made their films enjoyable despite other factors hindering their success. Hell, Untold is incredibly close to the Castlevania plot that proved super successful when adapted to the anime! Make Dracula sympathetic by showing what drove him to be a tyrant, then have a Victor Von Doom style justification for why he's being "heroic" in the modern age like he's just doing it to protect his domain or vampire kind or something. All in all I think pivoting to 1 off stand alone stories is where these IP's thrive. Invisible Man was great, Voyage of the Demeter looks great, the new Frankenstein project sounds promising, Shape of Water was as close to a Black Lagoon remake we'll probably get lol these all work really well as stand alone stories where the Dark Universe was dead before it lived.

[@FrostSpirit617]

I’m probably one of the only people in this comment section who wants this, but here. First off, no heavily modernized takes like make them just like how they were originally but yk not in black and white, make them have good acting, gore, CGI and practical effects, all that stuff! The invisible man in the Blumhouse movie where it’s just a suit, don’t give me that bs, I want classic monsters how they were originally and are meant to be portrayed. 2nd, rather than a full of cinematic universe just have them all be in the same universe, but have these crossover movies like Frankenstein meets the wolf man, don’t do some MCU shit. 3rd, the stories should be simple. Nowadays everything is getting so complex like go basic. For example like have a couple who need to wait out a storm go to Dracula’s castle or whatever, we don’t need a complicated plot, go simple and basic. Thank you for reading this!!