BUT it means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for Season 4 M+ Meta

𝗛𝗘𝗟𝗣 𝗠𝗘 𝗖𝗥𝗘𝗔𝗧𝗘 𝗠𝗢𝗥𝗘 𝗙𝗢𝗥 𝗬𝗢𝗨. 𝗦𝗨𝗣𝗣𝗢𝗥𝗧 𝗢𝗡 𝗣𝗔𝗧𝗥𝗘𝗢𝗡: / quazii
Quazii discusses tuning changes for WoW Dragonflight Season 4
Link to Podcast episodes:
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𝗙𝗥𝗘𝗘 𝗤𝗨𝗔𝗭𝗜𝗜 𝗪𝗘𝗔𝗞𝗔𝗨𝗥𝗔𝗦 & 𝗨𝗜
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Discord Community: / discord
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[@EdMane]

I saw so many dps players getting used to not use their interrupts and CCs... VDH is spoiling us

[@Leeches-]

I play all tanks and this contrast is so funny to me. I was in Nokhud earlier as bdk and was interrupting Tempest and Lightning Bolt but then the 2nd Tempest came around and all 3 of them just stood and watched it nuke the whole party and kill everyone. Right after i did a Brackenhide and those mobs that fixate and you can break it with a micro cc like scatter or psychic stream? They just ignored it and died.... over and over. Vdh has turned dps brains into mush

[@asasdsaasda]

Meh for me as dps, i never had the privilege to play with a proper VDH, too many FOTM while pugging have no idea wtf is going on with their class

[@cwhit2575]

Mage here. I cast blast wave and dragon breath over 20 times a piece, every key.

[@coryaustin7379]

DH nerf just feels like they threw a stick out in front of a DH, the DH tripped and said "Well that was annoying" and then continued on their way.

[@ionut-madalinnejloveanu6778]

Well you dont want to trow the nerf hammer and make a class usles , you turn the nob slowly, maybe next week they will do somting else to it...

[@alphapapa5539]

I get your point about people picking their mains for the season but if you choose your main based on how OP/META it is, you shouldn't be surprised when it gets nerfed.

[@orsikbattlefate3976]

i picked BRM and got nerfed, and no where near meta

[@michiganhughes]

It would be nice if Blizz were consistent with their treatment of OP specs though. Track record in DF wise, they only end up nerfing broken specs 50% of the time, and often close to the end of season.

[@fistthycuffs8376]

I think it's crazy they nerfed BRM hen literally only equinox is the only BRM above any VDH in terms of damage on logs so for them to nerf their damage and boost their defensives idk if that trade is worth it at all when all said and done​@@orsikbattlefate3976

[@dominikpecuch2177]

@@orsikbattlefate3976 BrM really was handed short end of the stick for the whole expansion, kinda sad because I enjoyed it but it wasn't really viable for pushing (and my healer hated me)

[@murmurrrr]

6:40 Survival hunter Tierset is still not fixed.. Not even a mention

[@Gbad5491]

any prot warrior buff makes me happy. now make disrupting shout silence even when mobs aren't casting

[@diablotor12]

Top 640 m+ timed runs all VDH... oh wait.. there's a key with guardian druid. Yeah, guess there is only 1 tank for m+

[@caan_sensei4853]

"So let's nerf brewmaster" - Blizzard

[@GreedySage]

We vDH have an overwhelming amount of CC compared to other tanks. Having 2 Sigils of Silence, 2 Sigils of Misery, 2 Sigils of Chains AND Chaos Nova just outclasses every other tank, and I love the playstile. vDH is now super fun to play, so much more fun than when I started maining it in S3 of Shadowlands. But! It's not fair compared to other tanks, and while I cry about them nerfing my sigils, I must agree that it's not fair to other tank classes. I feel like we will see more DH nerfs as the season goes on

[@The0nlyy]

Sadly that’s Blizzard’s only solution, rather than bringing other tanks up in various ways that makes them unique in their own right.

[@WhatLurksBeneath]

FINALLY AFFLICTION GETS SOME LOVE (albeit small but I'll take whatever I can get)

[@SouthernDrinkSlinger]

For real, I dont even play Brew Monk anymore, but that nerf made me mad. The one good thing these Brew players have is damage & you just nerf it... when they are already one of the worst tanks. You are basically saying you cant play the class you like, reroll. FEELS BAD. Buff their damage & take away a little survivability, true glass cannons!

[@bengixd]

it aint one of the worst tanks when i play it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@SouthernDrinkSlinger]

@@bengixd yeah it is

[@SosoXchan]

@@bengixdthen why dont you do 19 keys like vdh?

[@bengixd]

@@SosoXchan it takes 10x the gcd's and 10x the brainpower to do what a VDH does in one pull than it does on brew. it's also a lot harder to solo carry a dungeon on brew the higher the key gets. i would need to find a dedicated push team that was okay with me maining brew in order to do top 0.1% keys. fated/awakened season is kinda a meme so ive been taking it easy and playing other games instead of wow 6 hours a day.

[@pet4pr4nk]

it doesnt take 10x braimpower to do what vdh does, its just not possible, for nobody, cause in practice u dont even have 2% of dh utility

[@Teshnow]

DID BREWMASTER REALLY GET NERFED???????????????? WHY?

[@knifetoucher]

They are literally the least played tank in the game, and Blizz nerfed them lol. Meanwhile they massively buffed the 2nd least played tank in the game. Obvious class favoritism in the works.

[@dan3370]

The top brewmaster player went apeshit on using trinkets and borrowed power items and produced an outlier. This can be done by any tank by the way. in reality, Brewmasters are just slightly above average dps. Blizz did not bother looking into what happened, but took 1 parse on face value.

[@fastydave]

Tell Equinoxmonk to keep his mouth shut on X over high key parses.

[@Z_inky]

@@dan3370 if you're referring to the recent equinox video of him peaking 2.5m DPS as brew in acad, the best parts about that pull are: augmentation evokers give vers stat which is a BiS stat for brew in general, giving them free damage, and DR, as well as pres being a 3% crit buff & 15% chance copy which is another BiS stat for brew, ontop of Blistering Scales being 25% of his damage for that pull. Really this nerf was an out of touch nerf, and blizzard wont revert it as they rarely understand why the community is bothered by their inconsiderate takes.

[@myv112]

They nerfed Brew 😂😂😂 im out man fuck this

[@galadinwow]

I feel the Sigil of SIlence nerf A LOT. For exactly the reason you said: as a VDH I'm expected to handle everything so that DPS can zug zug. Problem is, instead of there being an attitude shift as I have less control so that the DPS take over more interrupts, they just get pissy at me for nothing having complete control over every mob so that they can press CDs and do big AoE damage

[@paweldurczok]

From my perspective "meta" is not healthy in any game, because it just means that not all options are equally viable. I know it's almost impossible to avoid, but it just points to imbalance. However, I think that VDH is not even meta as such. It's far removed from other tanks in terms of viability, because it's the only tank that seems to be tuned (or rather overturned) to how the dungeon encounters are designed (at least in terms of trash).

[@mohammad-zabih]

it is upseting to see how players got clueless about dungon mechanics / abilities just cuz they got carried by VDH thru this last two seasons . ppl use to know spells react to them and play them now days nah they dunno what they need to interrupt whats important whats not "as a Guardian druid ive seen this many many times"

[@thegame4027]

People have always been shit at using CC and kicks, nothing new.

[@mohammad-zabih]

@@thegame4027 true , im happy my team been forced to learn it other way around :) cordinating all the packs and dungs to actually play tthem instead of getting carried now they know almost all the spells

[@Snakeskii]

We have a prot warrior in our guild that I love to play with. We also have a few warrior dps, they just need more utility. Some spit ball ideas. Give them shouts to silence or stun. Heroism seems right on brand for them as well. Or a battle rez where they jump on someone and demand they get up. There are so many on brand and hilarious ways to give them utility and I just don't understand why it hasn't been worked in over the years.

[@okeson9301]

I’m curious if this isn’t good enough for this season. Guardian didn’t get any buffs, but we got our set bonus back. I guess only real question is, can VDH keep up with real damage? Personally, I’m happy going Druid this season…. Minus tmog sucking.

[@BronzeRivet]

Nice to hear someone talking about Rogue utility in m+. Shiv on whirlwind in Brackenhide Hollow, bulk Blind on bloody swipe guys in Brackenhide Hollow, Kidney Punch on whirlwind guys in Algeth'ar Academy, bulk interrupt with Iron Wire on casters, all that stuff that helps the rest of the group survive, reduces pressure on healers, etc. CC is selectively broken, though, which is frustrating. Shiv doesn't always cancel enrages. Kidney Punch doesn't always work and if you try it you waste combo points. Anyway, if people only consider the damage meters, Assassination get's left out. The damage buff is good. I agree, maybe not enough, we'll have to see.

[@StuartRiches]

I think fury will need more of a tier buff than that. Some of the problem around it is gear will have more crit at a stat, and it'll take less stacks before Bloodthirst hits 95+%, effectively reducing the amount you stack the damage bonus. Which leaves you the choice of stacking it more, even though the crit component is no longer of benifit.

[@Leemadin]

"Have the devs been reading too much Twitter?" Yes, always yes.

[@Tony-hk9sg]

I just dont understand how for more than 1 season now, one tank can simply bring mass grip/aoe silence/aoe stun/aoe fear/hard CC and have multiple charges of some of those.

[@Mutch-hl7jy]

I do think this is a lesson for blizzards tank design. Give tanks more utility. I think vDH is the best example about how I think a tank should play out. It's fun , it's engaging , brings something special to the role that usually doesn't bring "alot" to a 5 man. I think vDH was fine as it was, they had to buff other tanks instead.

[@logik99]

Nah the dumb part is that they made NO changes to tanks before the season starts, as if it wasn’t obvious already, then they start neerfing after people put time into specs for s4.. like the team just keeps proving they are clueless or trying to piss people off on purpose

[@ReatuKrentor]

If youre worried about soul cleave losing 8% damage causing threat issues, what is losing 10% on one of the few abilities that is aoe snap threat for BrM going to do?

[@knifetoucher]

Veng won't be balanced until they remove the talent that gives them 2 charges of sigils

[@pet4pr4nk]

... and even then its still meta, cause sigils are just dumb overpowerd

[@strifer81]

How was that Brew nerf justified?

[@haxuhaxu6343]

It’s not 😂

[@mindflayer]

100% agreed on the Brewmaster nerf. I don't want to be yet another VDH... Absolutely agreed that the developers are knee jerking to community salt.

[@makoslushie9777]

Blizzard always does this. Instead of nerfing a strong class, why not increase the damage/utility/heals/whatever of the other under performing classes? It's always some one screaming for nerfs instead of normalizing buffing other classes. The tank profile for VDH will always outshine the other classes, until they have utility and control. The sigil change is just more annoying than anything. And it really only affects those groups that were reaching the third rotation of silence. If it's not great for other tank specs, then change the other tank specs. Why do we always have to nerf ? Especially in S4. Let everyone go wild and have tons of control and damage. The balance mentality is just so skewed, in my opinion. Classes are not created equal. And they will never be equal until they have very similar/exact same spells and abilities. If every tank had mass grip, mass silence, mass disrupt/gear, and aoe stuns - sure. That world would be great. Especially if they all had similar survivability and sustain. It would be an amazing day.

[@1200KSA]

Oh Prince, I don't know what this game is like. If you have experience, please help me. There is a choice to buy the game for 188 riyals, or a subscription up to level 60 for 48. Where should I pay for it?😢

[@MrCarlWax]

Up to lvl 60 is not the full game, that's why it's so cheap

[@nbkw48]

Contrary opinion here, and I am open to other viewpoints: I get that Quazii is saying VDH's basically constant silence/stun is "bad for the game" as DPS stop using their interrupts. But yet... don't most DPS players find that the best part of playing in a party with a VDH that they DON'T have to do such things? They get to focus on their own DPS, doing other raid mechanics, instead of kicks and CCs. Is that not what players want then? If anything, one could also draw the conclusion that other Tanks (or certain control DPS like Rogues) can be given similar such skills (sigil of silence/chain type) to also take on that role. So the tank's job becomes pulling big, surviving and CCing/silencing, while the DPS do damage and perform raid mechanics. Before anyone says "ah but DPS need to be given more responsibility to kick/silence". Why? It's not that fun. You play DPS to... DPS. Complexity for the sake of it isn't really that fun either.

[@thoemib]

love your videos quazii! so many good videos, very entertaining and interesting

[@The0nlyy]

HOW do they nerf VDH and Brewmaster and not touch Ret Pally? Seriously wtf?

[@ionut-madalinnejloveanu6778]

Vdh right now is more of a simptom of the game haveing so many mandatory stops in each pack, rememeber the legion dungeons , you had max 1 important mechanic in a big pull not 3 , 4....

[@danielgpmarques]

Why every season we have every stearmer ask for nerfs, can we stop this for once? Can we ask for buffs on other classes (my other tanks are stoped for 2 seasons now). Other tanks have a lot of issues that need fixing, like what they did to druids that for some stupid change on classic, now cant use autoshift or end up on humanoid on a pack while trying to offheal...

[@adverbs626]

i mean, the brew nerfs dont really amount to much. its just the principle of it.

[@bananagoose1224]

illuminated sigils is the reason VDH will always be the best m+ tank, until thats gone or the other tanks get more stops, the meta tank wont change

[@Tony-hk9sg]

btw battering ram has been nerfed NOT buffed

[@ShadowSingularity88]

Shame the meta hasnt changed, still vdh, restodruid, sp, fmage and aug, really takes the fun away for other specs... meh

[@sir_quirkus7206]

Just buff the other tanks

[@Peterryom]

Thanks for great content, keep it coming. Vengeance DH will still be dominant this season, cause the only nerf that would make sense, Blizzard won't do; take away the illuminated sigils talent. As long as that exists, VDH will dominate. But since this season is probably maintained by a handful of people, this won't happen. Besides; how ironic is it that the exodia comp has returned, just with different tank and healer :)

[@deadmikehun]

Everyone seems to forget that there is another option. How about blizz - for once - do some actual work and buff all the other tanks instead of nerfing VDH. Oh yeah, that would require more work whaaaaaaaat, who has time for that?

[@cheevang5515]

This meta is very bad for the community, if your not a vdh your probably not getting an invite for keys 12+ currently

[@Dzntzgtem]

Go get friends.

[@FOX3114]

Why can't I get a tank like Quazii?? I tank like you but, I can't get a tank like you when I dps. I just want huge pulls and big dmg

[@TheRabbit68]

Honestly hopefully VDH in it's current state gives a blueprint on how other tanks should be. Tanky and CC machines.

[@ccChebb]

They just need to remove the ability of DH to have 2 sigils of each

[@saenct]

im sorry but this "we dont want to destroy the meta" argument is just not valid. what reasoning is that even? "well some ppl have invested a little bit of time over 2 weeks of an entire season...we really dont want to hurt their feelings so 32 other speccs have to suffer now sorry"??

[@bobc8217]

this isn't great for what blizzard is trying to do with harder m+ content. VDH carry bad dps/heals and let them ignore mechanics.

[@Krenorg]

These are just joke modifications and not nerfs. Simply remove DH double sigil and problem is solved. It would literally even out the tank meta.

[@Rockforce80]

You don't fix DH by nerfing DH, you fix dh by not needing so many silences and stops in every pack of every dungeon imo. You make the mobs still cast, still use abilities, but just make them unstoppable. Make the abilities weaker, because you know you will always have to deal with them, but that way having 7 stops isn't busted, cause there isn't as much that you can stop.

[@jhjgjhgkhf902]

Would not change much. It only would mean you can stop even more and even bigger pulls competly by yourself. Its like to say this one is the best in this task lets make the task easier that would it still makes the best one for that task.

[@masqerader]

Paladin avenger shield procs seem to be fine though

[@Rockforce80]

@@jhjgjhgkhf902 You'd be limited by the majority casts that cannot be stopped. If there are 4 kicks total when you do a quadruple pull and they are not very impactful, something like weak frostbolt casters, not having a DH will be far less important than it is when all the kicks really mean something. In my suggestion it turns the sigils into a nice to have, cause you get some free kicks on little garbage casts instead of being absolutely necessary or your group will get crushed by rotting winds.

[@erike9074]

*every healer disliked that*

[@Dzntzgtem]

Ok then add more stops to all the tanks??

[@vjr6939]

well, i rather hope they learn from this nonsense with "meta" and do better in the future. nerfing a good class is not the way to go, but bring up other specs to be competitive and feel better! not make those who feel good, feel sh1t

[@steveskeet1]

Shadowlands - Blood DK meta Dragonflight - Guardian meta season 2 Dragonflight - Vengeance DH season 3 and 4 How is any of this a new concept about it being “meta”. All this complaining about a class will kill it back to non playable. RELAX.

[@bojnebojnebojne]

I think the solution is not to nerf Vengeance, i think the solution is to buff the other tanks so they can do the same in terms of lockdown and control. As a Havoc Demon Hunter main, i have no problems doing what needs to be done in terms of CC and Interrupts myself, but i know there are some much "harder" to execute specs out there that really feel like not having to bother with a plethora of CC and interrupts is way more fun so they can focus on the very fast paced combat them specs have to manage. Coz it is not easy in my opinion to manage both the complex priorities of a spec and the needed control without using voice communication, which frankly the majority of the player base do not participate in in the pug world. Now i know, i play a Havoc as main.. (insert meme) XD, but i can play all dps specs at the 95th percentile and above depending on Rng, pulls, encounters etc. What i'm getting at is, that it is not fun having our brain melt after like 1 -2 keys. So having the tank being able to sort the lockdown is a relief and makes the game more fun from a dps player perspective in my opinion.

[@philjay4189]

Let’s nerf classes after we scale content difficulty, smh

[@damonkhan94]

First. Also awesome vid as always.

[@wanderer.antonio]

Here is what happened, 1. Devs are watching player KZbin videos and Streams. 2. Players publish videos on how good they are. The top players climb up and the algorithm suggests them to the rest of the world. 3. Devs watch these videos and then decide on whether they believe the players should be allowed to perform as well as the guy in the video. Anecdotal Evidence: 1. Yoda has been consistently streaming a ton of VDH videos. 2. Equinox recently published a video on how much DPS he was doing on his Brewmaster. Personal Comments: I switched to maining VDH for season 4 and it felt very fun. Nerfing VDH is going to make it less fun. Why would I continue to play a game that deliberately tries to make the game less fun for me. I would even argue that it makes it less fun for DPS as well since they will have to do more and pay more attention now. If it were fun for DPS to worry so much about CCing then they would do it naturally. On top of that, I also enjoy Prot warrior. Why not just standardize the amount of interrupts, or the type of interrupt each class gets. EG: Each Tank gets 2 AOE Silences, etc... The same with everything else, like damage mitigation. It already is basically like this, EG: Prot warrior has shield block, VDH has Demon Spikes, Bear Druid has Iron Fur, and so on...Standardization is already there, but it's like it's being hidden on purpose, like an illusion. Why have the philosophy that standardization is bad. What the game has now is the illusion of choice. And this is costing players fun. EG: Why should a Shaman have a talent tree loadout for every single M+ dungeon. The illusion is, they make a choice between different abilities, the reality is, they have all the abilities already, they just have to go into the Menu and click on a different loadout between each dungeon. If you standardized the game and just recolor the abilities and flavors then it makes balancing much easier. I enjoyed Season 3 and I think it's better and healthier for me to take a step back and find another hobby. I do not enjoy people playing God and being able to suddenly make something fun or less fun. How can a small group of people have that much power over others. The community speaks, and things are generally liked or disliked. Healthy people did not want VDH nerfs, toxic people wanted VDH nerfs. Healthy people wanted all other tanks to be pushed up and buffed to keep up with VDH, toxic people wanted VDH out of the scene entirely. Support: I'll speak for PVE. I believe the game should be fun. It should make classes feel fun. I want to enjoy playing certain specs because they are the most fun to me, and not because they are the most viable, do most DPS, or are meta to play. DPS should be made equal across the board. Standardized to a hard cap that all can reach. After the cap is reached, the players who perform above the cap receive small support buffs that aid their adjacent players reach their cap. If all players are able to reach their cap then the healer or tank get a buff and then the whole group sort of become multiplied. This rewards player skill and not so much the spec they play. Also, it's 2024, philosophies are changing, people are changing. The majority of the WoW playerbase is already in their 30s. WHat happens when these people reach a midlife crisis and suddenly realize that their fun does not have to be associated or dictated by a small group of people sitting on the throne with an ironfist? Good luck on the War Within! Sayonara

[@AntGsz94]

Bro no one will notice u quitting the game i play 16 hours a day 17 years straight. Ur point is ? I bet your playing right now lol

[@havtor007]

You are a meta reroller ofcourse you do not want it nerfed. On the interupt side that would destroy niches so that is a bad take. The problem with vdh right now is that you have the massive amount of CC and control you bring 3% magic damage you have the second highest dps out of all tanks you have middle of the pack healing and it is just passive. The survivability is strong. Basically there is no downside

[@Kools4LifeRMX]

haha No matter which class is OP, as soon as it is the DH, it will be nerfed immediately.

[@pet4pr4nk]

i think ur delusional lol, are u able to check facts?^^

[@Qzariuss]

So upset with all the changes, both dh nerf (ok - overdue, but why! F bring up others to the level of DH NOT BRING the most fun spec down) and bm, how does it make sense to nerd them? Who is blizzard listening to, why the hell blizzard

[@haxuhaxu6343]

Dh isn’t even fun to me idk why

[@brice9013]

People complaining about meta comps probably havent even played to a 10 yet this season, let alone the 15-17s that are being pushed by these players.

[@ShadowSingularity88]

i play bm and been pugging 12s, after that point you just dont get invited anymore since they all want meta, even though i outdps 90% of those meta specs on overall, so your comment doesnt make any sense, unless you go premade and have friends that want to do higher than keys than 5s.. or a guild that doesnt consist of cliques which seems like a challenge every season.

[@shawn80]

fun must stop for 97% of players who were like wow I can do a ton of things on my VDH now. All because 3% of players pretend this is a career.

[@thegame4027]

The funny thing is it's not 3% but 0.1-0.2%. I'm in the top 1% IO and i'm much closer in terms of skill to the 99% than the 0.1%. The gap between the very best and what they can do to 99.9% of players is insane in wow and it always ends up hurting the 99.9%.

[@lostcause78]

You know like half the balance team in Blizzard plays DH. They have always been a top class, dps or tank - and one of the less complex ones too.

[@Listitan]

The Balance of the game is pretty bad overall... :D

[@thegame4027]

The balance is better than it ever has been besides the Tanks. You can easily take most DPS and healer Specs and time any key up to at least +17. There have never been more classes viable than currently. It's just tanks where VDH is way to strong.

[@Listitan]

@@thegame4027 You have absolutely no clue... :D

[@spunda22]

VDH fine, let it have it's time, it's the end of the expansion! Blizz is not going to fix the other tanks at this point so careful what you wish for..

[@ShadowSingularity88]

Yea its the end of the expansion and nothing changed form last seasons meta..

[@MrPileo]

I remember people crying for nerf because prot warrior was so OP first season, they gutted and brought it down, now supposedly this is how tanks should be, don't touch vdh let them have their time, disgusting

[@merenwen_gaming]

They had an entire season last season… they had their time. Let others have fun.what is disgusting?

[@Wrex90]

Or you know, they could try to make the meta somewhat balanced and not have single tank that outclasses all others in almost every aspect?

[@AntonKlermon]

Vdh is OP, its not even a question. And its unfair to other tanks.

[@VDHmain]

Eh, it's the only 4th season where VDH is remotely good in M+ since Legion season 1. Give them a season ffs. BDK has been meta for like 8 seasons. Mage pretty much every single one. They could fix the problem by not designing the dgs so you need 10 aoe stops per pull if you want to time a really high key. The nerf may not be very big but it will affect top groups heavily, and pugs as well. Mostly pugs actually. And be honest, most the people complaining about VDH are the noobs who can't kick or use stops and make keys infinitely harder.

[@pet4pr4nk]

or people that enjoy monk even tho almost nobody plays it because its bad and still getting nerfed... wake up, ur demonhunterbrain is not healthy

[@gruntymunky4082]

Prot wars dps way way more dmg than Brewster like by a mile....

[@pet4pr4nk]

what game are you playing dude?

[@TakaTiktok-yr4dr]

This is good changes but what about mythic + and holy paladin being the basement healer for the second season in a row 😢😂