We Made Our Own Rope Spokes!

Disclaimer: Making any bike part yourself can be dangerous, wheel components especially. DON'T try this yourself! Adam's one of the smartest people I know and there's been a ton of work put into testing and prototyping before we got to this point. Even though we show our process this isn't a tutorial, if you do want some rope style spokes for yourself I encourage you to buy some Berd spokes instead.
I've had a lot of requests to try Berd "rope" spokes since putting out my wheel build videos. I've certainly been interested but been put of by the costs.
It turns out I've not been the only one interested... Adam from Tartybikes took his interest a little further though and decided to tackle the incredibly complex task of making his own rope spokes!
It's hard to convey the work he's put into finding a strong, reliable and repeatable method of making these spokes! It's been in the hundreds of hours but the work has paid off and he has managed to make a functioning pair of rope spoke wheels which are holding strong after 400 miles of off road MTB in the grime of a UK winter.
Adam shared his progress on forums which is where I first saw what he was up to but it was actually Adam who got in touch with me about building one of my wheels for my channel. I can't thank him enough for the work he's put in to make this video possible!
It's a long video for sure but there's so much golden information I figured a lot of you would like to absorb as much as possible (the Patreon version has over 20 mins of extra content).
I hope you enjoy the video, I found the process fascinating and I hope you do too!
Let me know your thoughts and of course if you want to get yourself any trials (or MTB parts) give them a call or head to www.tartybikes.co.uk and get some orders placed, it's a great shop run by great people and I'd love it if I could get them some promotion and extra orders :)
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#berdspokes #wheelbuild #aliclarkson #bike

[@Ali_Clarkson]

What do you think...cool? Gimmick? Too much effort? Perhaps the future of spokes?

[@sztigirigi]

Not the future but still cool :)

[@rivercloud32]

To much effort

[@purplegarage05]

Definitely worth the racing crowd along with weight weenies but like most things for most people not worth the hastle

[@allanshpeley4284]

Cool, but why not just use Berd spokes? They've already solved the problems of embedding the spoke end into the material and attaching it to the hub. I run Berd's myself and so far I've found them to be great, minus the extra time it takes to build up a wheel.

[@Ali_Clarkson]

@@allanshpeley4284 I asked Adam the same thing and he just said he liked the challenge. I guess it’s similar to people who want to climb mountains, their enjoyment comes from overcoming challenges rather than just taking the easy route

[@BCpov]

Didn’t think I’d make it though a 38 min video about spokes, but this is super interesting 🧐

[@brendan1]

Hahah... exactly what I was thinking. The time flew by.

[@tonythies1827]

Heck with that... I slipped to the last 5min.

[@uhitskyle]

You think soo0o00? I love your logo btw it looks like a bicycle chain

[@marchood99]

@@uhitskyle that's what it is a logo off as BC stands for bike chain 👍🤪

[@MysteryClown]

@@uhitskyle no shit Sherlock 😂

[@rtxf]

One way to make sure it’s evenly tensioned is by downloading a chromatic tuner and make sure they all sound similar when plucked like a guitar string

[@Ali_Clarkson]

I think the only issue with that is there are slight variables which would effect the sound. Being hand made some might have ever so slightly longer buries etc. I like the thinking though

[@fryloc359]

The other part is that if your rim isn't perfectly straight, then the spokes will have different tensions.

[@drkastenbrot]

Thats pretty pointless because the material will fatigue out of "tune" within a very short time.

[@maxavssw]

You can use a tension gauge like is used for standing rigging on a sailboat...

[@fryloc359]

Trying to put the same tension on every spoke is pointless.

[@partsbinspecial1457]

I'm in awe of this level of bike nerdery. Well done!

[@dopeytripod]

wait till they crochet a seat cozy

[@MrRyanTrott]

This dude is really articulate, he should have a channel!

[@thetart20]

Thank you! A channel like that isn't my style, but hey, at least we share a passion for 2 seater Japanese RWD cars ;-)

[@thetart20]

@Péter Jóna Hello! I've tried to respond to you a couple of times now but it seems KZbin keeps deleting the link / comment... try searching the MTBR forum for the name on the downtube plus "29er", that should get you to the build thread. Thanks!

[@judahsmemes6987]

@@thetart20 what type of cutters did you use here?

[@thetart20]

@@judahsmemes6987 just some generic Dyneema scissors, they were about £25 online.

[@RelaxedNinja]

Totally agree! Not a single 'uhmm..', 'ehhh..' or 'hmmm..' He's mind is in synch with his hands

[@bdmtb1263]

The craftsmanship and passion this guy has is amazing. Nice work!!

[@SteveCole73]

I am not a bike enthusiast, I am barely a rider, but I am an engineer. I, therefore out of sure curiosity, had to watch this video. Good stuff. I have no clue how I ended up stumbling on to the channel. Worth the watch!

[@alexanderelia]

This has got to be the coolest home wheel project of the year, showing the whole process from start to finish was fantastic.

[@billrowan1957]

Never would I have imagined I'd spend 40mins watch a "bicycle spoke" video, I enjoyed his passion & dedication to proper function & esthetic.

[@thetart20]

Thank you, Bill! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@brucemacdonald5532]

Love handmade bikes, looks mint, well done! The rope spokes are crazy, never heard of that before! You learn something new everyday.

[@Ali_Clarkson]

Glad you enjoyed it Bruce :)

[@sstorholm]

A couple of details regarding UHMWPE and ropes in general. Almost all ropes loose a lot of breaking strength to knots, not just these fancy ropes. UHMWPE on the other hand is extremely slippery, so a lot of knots doesn’t really work in it as they just slide along the rope when tensioned. Another problem with these ropes is that the UHMWPE fibers don’t melt, so finishing a splice is tricky, hence why the buried tails splices are used as it hides the end of the rope. I personally prefer the Mobius Brummel splice as it stays put easier, and requires a shorter tail (50 times diameter) compared to the straight bury (which requires a 72 times). I’ve found that it’s a lot easier and faster for me at least to pull through the rope as is, and do the tapering last before pulling it back into the rope, less faffing about compared to the tapered end with all its fraying.

[@Happy_Biker]

19:26 This bit is what I've been wanting to see whenever hearing about this sort of spoke. It's the first time I've seen it demonstrated. That they are so sturdy is a selling point. Building them myself, not so much, lol. Good job.

[@davidwarr7550]

There was a young mountain bike racer I met in north Florida around 1997 that was making spokes out of calibrated pre stretched cables.

[@darrenhitchcox6345]

Awesome video. I did look into Berd Spokes and wondered why they are so expensive and this video shows why. The level of skill is off the scale, along with the knowledge needed. Full doff of the cap from me.

[@HolmesHobbies]

As a wheel building enthusiast, this is rad! Brazing the spoke ends does mess with the temper, I would be interested to see if the threads or the heads show any long term deformation.

[@thetart20]

Thanks man! I tested them in a jig with a normal spoke, at a 2:1 leverage ratio (rope spoke at double the tension as the steel one). Steel spoke broke at the thread first, though with hindsight I think friction in the threads may have been the culprit. This was with the steel spoke at about 150kg tension though, so the rope was at ~300...

[@joeldriver381]

I love the DIY spokes. I have spliced ropes using this process in the past and it is super satisfying. Adam used all the correct engineering terms, and has excellent fabrication skills. I love this guy! He is like my brother form another mother. I also loved the description of the use of the scientific process in the evolution of design. I want to hang out and build stuff with this guy.

[@Ali_Clarkson]

yeah I learn a lot every time I talk with him, I bet you two would get on great :)

[@jtrax7306]

love the spoke bending jig

[@davidkusko3370]

This is absolutely perfect! I watched this and thought my God, this is taking physics to the test and, using viable materials. I'd love to see a full test of these "spokes" and learn what they are really capable of. I'm guessing they could have a "high end" niche, but it wouldn't be hard to imagine these on a lot of cool looking bikes. Great Video! Thanks from San Antonio Texas! Yeee Haaw!

[@gitargr8]

Sailors are using this line to replace the standing rigging on the masts of their boats. You can tension the heck out of the line before installation to get the stretch out. They also make dynice dux, which is annealed dyneema, that has no stretch, but it's expensive. Also, I wonder if you can steal another page from sailing and make some kind of turnbuckle to tension your spoke ropes.

[@emanuelgebauer7098]

Glad I bought my bike from this guy! That's crazy!

[@bolwinklemoose1999]

Terence Retired military Parachute Rigger. Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene fibers are what the military is using for their new protective vests and combat helmets. The panels do float, as opposed to what we used to have, Para-Aramid polyamide fibers or "Kevlar". The UHMWP panels will stop or slow explosion fragments and rounds up to .357 Mag and Sig. What you refer to as a "bury", we call a "Finger-Trap Splice". The knot you are using at the hub is essentially a Clove Hitch. You should ensure all edges at the hub holes are rounded and smooth. There is no need to twist the steel spoke eyelets. It adds no strength to the created eyelet. Torquing the spoke shaft actually weakens the steel, the eyelet it forms, and gives the spoke shaft potential slack when it untorques under tension. I would recommend tapping threads onto a straight cut end and screwing on a prefabricated steel loop, much like the adjusting ferrule used to attach the steel spoke to the rim, then secure them by capillary solder into the threads or use a thread locking adhesive. OR Make a bend of the steel spoke incorporating a recurve at both sides of the formed eyelet, leaving the free end parallel to and touching the main steel shaft. Then use a crimped metal sleeve (a crimped "swedge" or "ferrule") to secure the parallel shafts to each other. You should have no problems finding crimping swedges/ferrules and crimping tools for crimp splicing either electrical wiring or steel tension cables. Either of these methods will enable you to uniformly prefabricate adjustable rim spoke eyelets. We use Finger-Trap Splice Loops to secure parachute suspension lines to the canopy and harness risers, but we never trust the Finger-Trap Loop entirely on its own. We use the loop to create a "Girth Hitch" at the connecting point, and the tail of material inside the finger-trap is secured with a short zig-zag stitch (or "Bar-Tac") just below where the tail enters the finger-trap. This isolates any movement of the tail inside the finger-trap when there is no tension on the finger-trap line. The zig-zag stitch will not break like a straight stitch does when the finger-trap stretches and contracts. Using a Girth Hitch at the loop connection, instead of looping the rope straight through the eyelet, places most of the tension load on the Girth Hitch and not the Finger-Trap Splice and zig-zag stitch. It also simplifies assembly for you. You can uniformly prefabricate all of your looped rope spokes prior to attaching them to the hub and adjustable steel rim spoke eyelets. If the hub holes are large enough, you can thread a prefabricated rope spoke, with finger-trapped loops completed at both ends, through the hub holes and complete your Clove Hitch at the hub. (If the hub holes aren't large enough, you could complete one end before tying your Clove Hitch).Then you can secure your adjustable steel spoke eyelet to each looped end of your rope spoke by passing the entire looped end of the rope spoke through the eyelet of the adjustable steel spoke, then pass the threaded end of the adjustable steel spoke through the looped end of the rope spoke, at first creating a Square Knot (half rope, half steel spoke) bringing the rope loop completely over the steel eyelet until the rope loop comes back to itself, the top of the loop wrapping around the base of the loop at the finger-trap, forming a Girth Hitch. Then pass the adjusting ferrule through the rim and secure it to the threaded end of the adjustable steel spoke eyelet. I hope I've helped in some way. I'm not sure how to give any visuals here, but contact me if you need to. Maybe I can take some pics using a coat hanger and paracord. Terence

[@thetart20]

Will take a while to digest fully... but that is great info - thanks!

[@andrewlucas246]

I remember seeing the thread on diy fabric spokes on MTBR- was sad to see it get shut down. Interesting to see someone go for the double ended spoke setup, definitely some weight savings and reduced frontal area compared to the berd method but also a lot of faff. I think that berd have done a great job pioneering this technology but shouldn't be surprised or salty to see people attempting their own. The techniques they use are quite low tech which is inviting. The opportunities for a more optimised/lighter spoke attachment method and different lacing options open it up even further to keen diyers. Finally the price is certainly a motivator for some- I'd love to see the cost come down on these in future with more streamlined manufacturing and bigger numbers as right now it's pretty prohibitive.

[@thetart20]

Agreed. Clearly a DIY set isn't a threat to a production run from a proper company... The MTBR thread is still live btw, its in the DIY / MYOG forum now though.

[@ericm8811]

Hey Ali Clarkson! What a great vid! I am a total DIY tinkerer innovator type! I realized a long time ago just after I learned the wheel building art that the weight placed on a bicycle wheel is hanging on the top 8 spokes and the rest stop the rim from collapsing! Special thanks to Tarty bikes for the awesome high rise handlebars I bought a couple of years ago! Ride ride ride!

[@Ali_Clarkson]

yeah Adam was saying the same thing, learning :P

[@stefhirsch6922]

It depends on the vertical rigidity of the rim. A particularly rigid rim such as a deep section aero rim will distribute the strain to more of the spokes than a weaker shallow lightweight rim with lighter wall thickness. I would also dispute that the wheel merely hangs off of the spokes at the top. If you deform a round structure such as a tube or rim by pushing inward in one section the rest of the wheel will effectively grow in circumference to compensate.

[@ericm8811]

Hey Stef Hirsch! I fully agree that a stiffer rim will have more spokes that share the suspended load than a more flexible rim! I don't think that there are any stretching forces to expand the circumference of the rim as you suggest! When a circle is squeezed into an oval the circumference remains the same! Are you referring to the ovalizing of the rim that would occur if the spokes that aren't suspending any weight weren't there? A tiny amount of ovalization does occur in a spoked wheel due to spoke stretch but the spokes that are close to horizontal and below horizontal keep it to a minimum! Thanks for your thoughts on the beautiful example of engineering that is the bicycle wheel! Ride ride ride!

[@stefhirsch6922]

@@ericm8811 the rim is constantly having an inward force due to the spokes tension. Tires are noticeably tighter and harder to get on/off the rim if it isn’t laced up. If you sit on the bike, hit a bump, land a jump… the rim will deform (hopefully temporarily) and the spokes at the bottom will have a lower effective tension. In a more extreme example a rim will have a flat spot due to the rim bending in until the spokes no longer are able to contribute to lateral integrity. That said in order for on section to bend in the sections before and after will increase.

[@dudeonbike800]

That isn't really true in a traditional bicycle wheel. In most wheels, a 3X pattern, the hub is "hanging" on ALL of the spokes, except about the bottom four at the ground. These four spokes see a slight decrease in tension, whereas the remaining 28 (in a 32 spoke wheel) share a much slighter increase in tension. So ultimately, since there's only slight tension changes, the hub is effectively hanging on ALL of the spokes! At least that's Jobst Brandt's explanation in "The Bicycle Wheel." (And I think this assumes a 100% stiff rim. Obviously there's flex, which depends on all the rim variables, which would result in slight spoke tension differences in different wheels.)

[@audunskilbrei8279]

I live in norway and we have no real trial shops. So I always have to order from abroad. And when I do I always choose tartybikes. Always helpful, fair prices and they usually send within hours or first thing the next day if I've placed the order in the evening.

[@Ali_Clarkson]

great to hear :D

[@alimantado373]

Same here, great Bike shop!

[@electech_5495]

Damn that makes perfect sense looking at the Caption, the spoke is suspended anyways, how come nobody thought of that yet

[@thetart20]

A company called Berd have something similar available commercially. Tioga did a wheel in the 90s too I believe, and single 'repair spokes' made of fancy string exist too.

[@captainchaos3053]

Not to sound like a knowable geek but we did this many many years ago at collage (1987) although we used steel cable the theory is the same. The spokes being gradually reduced in number until the wheel failed. Strange we were studying bridges at the time. Glad to see this becoming a real and practical method, the wheel we made weighed a lot more than the original unit. Well done.

[@aaronperrott1008]

Brings back memories of my old Spinergy Spox wheels that I got for free from a shop I used to work at. Put them on a 1993 Concorde Kudu Lite I had all built up with high-ish end take-offs from customers' new bike builds. Was a 3x7 XT bike for a bit, then went 3x9 with more newer XT goodies. These wheels, XT V-brakes with salmon Kool-stops... I can feel that thing dancing around between my legs when I close my eyes. So many memories on that old bike. This was in the 2000-teens, and I came 7th in provincials in C-cat for XC during a hurricane, against super expensive dually carbon machines. I sold it to a riding buddy, who last I heard is still commuting on it! Best $50 I ever spent on a bike.

[@KiteTurbine]

Adam, this looks like the perfect kinda wheel to compliment the Stub axle and thrust bearing combo you made for my flying wind turbine... Which is also dyneema lines linked to the rim of a bike wheel. brilliant.

[@garymenezes6888]

Not a mountain bike rider, but the video title intrigued me and I watched to the end. Amazed at the amount of work and thought Adam has put into this and will be recommending this video to other bike riders and non-bike riders alike, just for the sheer mechanical geek-fest.

[@gabejames3304]

Just amazing! Suppose the only thing I could think of is the radius where the fabric of the spoke loops round the eyelet, potentially this is quite a tight turn where stress could be concentrated? maybe future wheels could have a little bushing or ring which the spoke could loop round (if you google 'rope pulley' you'll understand sort of what I mean) on the eyelet, could reduce stress on the wheel and fabric of the spoke? Great Video anyway!

[@Ali_Clarkson]

I guess time will tell. I'm sure a bushing would be better but then you'll be adding a lot of weight back in

[@olivernissen9386]

Nice idea but any high frequency rubbing may occur, causing abrasion & heating - UHMWPE (brand names Dyneema & Spectra) isn't particularly abrasion resistant and weakens at fairly low temperatures. I wonder whether making the spokes with sheathed UHMWPE might be best (sheathes are usually braided polyester.) That would help avoid the aforementioned problems, but then splicing would be impossible (if that is indeed the best solution for ending the cord "spokes.") Polyethylenes like UHMWPE are all really slippery which means splicing & finger-trap connections are - if at all viable - very hard work. I'm surprised that creep isn't proving a problem for these wheels. UHMWPE will stretch out under continuous load. The other fibre to try would be Vectran, fractionally less strong, but doesn't suffer creep, is a bit less slippery and has higher melt temperature and abrasion resistance. It's not as UV-resilient, but it still retains a good degree of strength after UV weathering.

[@zachary3777]

@@olivernissen9386 I agree about the vectran. It seema hard to get, though.

[@Bob-Whiting]

I wish I could give a thumbs-up with an exclamation point! Killer!

[@drmattbarlow]

Great to see Adam on the vlog. He's not only such a genius but also an absolutely top bloke! 👊 Enjoy the wheel, Ali. What a ridiculously impressive process and outcome👍

[@Ali_Clarkson]

yeah he's an impressive specimen

[@peterrhodes83]

This is wonderful on all levels. Hurrah for both of you! One can only imagine how perfect a bike by Adam would be. I'll save my pennies just in case he'd make me one!

[@Ali_Clarkson]

Thanks Peter :) I do wonder what Adam would make if he had the chance to make whatever he wanted :)

[@thetart20]

Too kind, Pete! Hope you are doing well - nice to know you're still hanging around trials circles :-)

[@peterrhodes83]

@@thetart20 We're all good thanks! I still dabble, teaching the kids too, or more like staying sharp enough I can still hang with them!

[@peterwadsworth581]

Sorry if this has already been asked... there's a lot of comments! Was there a reason for only having the front wheel (other than expense and time of course!)? Such a great video. So interesting.

[@thetart20]

Time, and wanting to test it out with the lesser stressed wheel first!

[@peterwadsworth581]

@@thetart20 Makes sense!

[@jeremyprovonsil7886]

Stick a rare earth magnet to your wire cutters and you will catch both the loop and the cutoff. No more bending down to pick up all the flying pieces. Also, a small length of pvc pipe with one fixed cap and one thread-on cap filled with acetone can be used as your spoke cleaner. Fill with acetone, drop in a stack of spokes, let it soak a bit, air hose or towel dry, boom,essentially self cleaning. Any elimination of extra work is huge on a build this involved. Keep at it, cool stuff. 👍🏽

[@Hassle68]

This is pretty amazing, didn't expect to have watched it all. Adam did an amazing job and pushing the envelope, as the design continues new ideas will be developed and fitting will become easier, In 10 years time these spokes will become the norm on high end bikes.

[@pipaluk2188]

One of the issues with Dyneema and other materials similar which I've observed in kite lines is that the fibres overtime fill up with dirt. Which not only changes their length but also causes them to wear from the inside out as the rope expands and contracts. Other than that, quite a neat idea!

[@paulwells3271]

Did something similar in school in the 80s only I weaved the thread from hole to hole with a spool of nylon rather than individual spokes

[@dudeonbike800]

That was great. Thanks for sharing. Now you can easily do a "twist-spoke" wheel to add to the "ropeyness" of the wheel!

[@ChrisTrunek]

don't have the time to watch this right now but after working with Dyneema fibers and seeing the Berd ones DIY spokes seemed very plausible. Thank you for doing this! my wheels I built with your "stomp the spokes" technique haven't needed a single turn of adjustment since building them. years ago.

[@Ali_Clarkson]

Thanks Chris, I hope you like the whole thing once you get to watch it :)

[@514BMXJay]

I run a BMX shop, and we don't nerd out half this much about our bikes, but this is fascinating! Gotta watch the whole vid when I have a sec

[@108r108]

Nipple twisting wheel wizardry by Adam & Ali. I really enjoyed watching the process. Great stuff guys!

[@monbulla4026]

the ideas, engineering, effort and dedication that went into this is just amazing if anyone told me to tighten my "spokes" by sound id just laugh at them but you made it a thing i guess id love to try this but im just to lazy, the vibration dampening has to be great on those

[@Dawgside]

Tensegrity goes biking 😍 Genialt! #NerdLuv

[@philflip1963]

You are dead right to say that chopping 150g off the weight off a lightweight bicycle is ,"not bad", that's nearly a 50% reduction in the weight, of a fundamental component, any engineer would be proud of a far less significant weight saving! Very well done indeed! 😃😃 NOW GO STRAIGHT TO THE TOP OF YOUR CLASS! P.S. The knot at the hub is called a, 'clove hitch'.

[@BramBiesiekierski]

I laced a set of i9 enduro wheels after many of the original spokes started breaking, after only a few months of use. i9 told me they had a suspected bad batch of spokes around the time that they originally built the wheels and were happy to supply all new spokes under warranty. Due to me being in Australia, it wasn't practical to return the wheels for repair. So instead I re-laced and rebuilt the wheels myself. It was a great learning experience and a skill I have now used a few times since.

[@dorothyclarkson772]

Well, Algorithm, I watched this all the way through out of loyalty to Al’s stats but I can’t imagine I shall ever try making a lacy wheel! On the other hand, it could be a good project to discuss at next Wednesday’s Knit and Natter session at The Black Lion - I wonder what could be achieved on knitted spokes! (Best guess is total disaster and a waste of wool!)

[@Ali_Clarkson]

find some wool that doesn't stretch and maybe it'll work :)

[@badlarry172]

is this mummy Clarkson? keep on knitting Dot

[@RideBikes_Walkplaces]

Ha e you heard about 'project lonk' which is now 'wool circle', Dorothy? My friend is producing local wool died naturally in heptonstall. Worth a look if you like knitting!

[@adrianmanista1788]

I sail on a sport dinghy and we use these ropes very often, but mostly as moving rope. When there is constant tension like on wheel spokes we use steel wire and there is a debate if it could be replaced with dyneema. The problems could be that you can cut it, and it would probably get broken after time where it laces with the hub

[@Ali_Clarkson]

time will tell :)

[@Troggination]

I know of a fair number of boats in the fleet in which I race that use dyneema rigs. I believe one of them has had their rig for almost 5 years now, and it still looks pretty good. Sun exposure and the like is always a concern with hydrocarbon derived materials but hey, there's no rust stains on the deck ;-)

[@dennisw4654]

Been using Berd polyethylene for over 2 years on my road bike. Incredibly good at vibration dampening and have held very true. It did take me a little getting used to as it felt as if my tires were low pressure. No fraying to date.

[@michaelh.1262]

So it wouldn’t be ideal for road bikes?

[@dennisw4654]

@@michaelh.1262 I am not aware of anyone questioning the idea of Berd spokes on road bikes. It is more of adopting them by the wheel builders. I know of 2 builders who use them, Berd (of course) and Atomik. And there is always the question of cost/benefit but I really enjoy them especially for the damping quality.

[@bigbird2451]

You're giving me flashbacks Ali. I was let go from my last job where I worked with Dyneema to make sail boat rigging. The boss had me trying to machine stainless steel and titanium, which are the two hardest metals to machine, on hobby level equipment. It seems that engineers don't like to be told that they're wrong. Anyway... The material is called Dyneema. We used a form that had been heated under load to make it more rigid called Dux. There's a Japanese archery company that makes bow strings out of it. They call it "Angel Majesty." The thickest that I spliced was 18mm, suitable for clipper ship sized boats. There is a much more secure method of splicing it beyond the simple bury wherein you pass the end through or around your loop or sailing hardware, then through the main piece, then pass the main through that end before doing the bury. (I wish that I could remember the name of the technique.) Then we used heat shrink tubing over the bury portion to keep it from loosening when not under stress. It was a stressful job as I'd have to re stretch the finished product to make sure that I got the right length. I'd stretch the thinnest stuff we used (5mm) to 800 lbs to test it before shipping. I had the ghetto 4x4 winch that we used at first explode on me under tension once under more than 2000 lbs. of tension. Hydraulic rams were used after that.

[@Ali_Clarkson]

that sounds so sketchy haha, sorry to hear you were let go though. Thanks for the info too, very helpful :)

[@iamonfire1812]

Sounds like a locked brummel? That's what I do when I splice loops for my camping gear.

[@bigbird2451]

@@iamonfire1812 Yes Sir! Thank you! We used the modified version (Where you turn the bury inside out before passing the loop through.) Because we worked off of long spools so you couldn't pass the main bit through.

[@Stoney3K]

I kind of wonder how the sound characteristics of Dyneema are. Might be a good material for acoustic bass strings.

[@carlstanton2550]

Tart was always my go to for advice way back before he started tarty.the man's a genius

[@luizcarvalho4245]

Already one of my favorites videos!

[@djskinnyvinny]

awesome video man, Adams a legend and yourself! good work dude!

[@Ali_Clarkson]

Thanks Vinny!

[@fuhkoffandie]

Coolest thing ever. wanted to try this a while ago. People don't realize, he spoke never pushes, it always pulls. If it's tension correctly, and the rims tightened evenly, if they're all pulling somewhat evenly, there's no need for it to be rigid. I've always wanted to do this, with a green plastic covered cable that I have, that's actually a dog leash. But, since you did it first, you win, my friend. You just got a sub, and a gazillion likes when the next million videos that I watch from this channel.☝️😎👍💯💯💯💯💯

[@timgrant3742]

What a set up. Reminds me of the Tioga's Disc wheels. I wonder if Ti spokes would work. I guess soldering and stretch may be a issue too but imagine how trick it would be. I don't ride trials although I should try some stuff but have used Tarty Bikes. Always been super helpful. Cheers Ali this was a great video.

[@thomasstone1363]

No way to solder the titanium sadly and the welding involved would be a bit of a nightmare, but yes they would be so amazingly trick!!

[@Barnaclebeard]

I've been wondering if this was possible for at least 30 years!! This is so cool, thanks.

[@DarkSoulBaja]

Great use for this material. One thing to maybe consider, It's a bit more work, and you would have to be very meticulous, but when you do you're bury, if you create a locked Brummel and bury (as opposed to a straight bury) the amount of stretch should reduce even more, as well, it will ensure that the bury will never slip, probably not necessary since the spokes are always under tension, so the "Chinese finger trap" is always applied. In other applications using UHMW ropes to create eye splices, this is quite often the norm. Great work.

[@SirZeck]

Dude is a legend, if were live in UK for sure he is gonna be my go to bike shop.

[@andrewrenna6724]

Congrats on the video popping off mate. Well deserved

[@rodiona8781]

We've been using Dyneema in the hammock hanging community for about 12 years now. There are a few knots that a) allows you to tie Dyneema because it's so slippery b) work very well to help adjust after stretching. We borrowed the one way klemheist knot from the mountain climbing community that only moves in one direction but the eye splice would be the best method for you or a triple fisherman knot (I'll come back to this). You could also go with a thinner thread, the stuff is crazy strong. If I had to guess you're 1000kg+ per sq inch. I think I would consider developing a threaded nipple that has a hole in it and a bar at the top that looks like a pulley so that the rope doesn't bend but goes around a gentle curve. I've never seen the stuff snap, I used hair thin Dyneema to climb down a spot I got into. But if it did it would be easier to replace by dropping the nipple in with the already mounted Dyneema and then tying on the hub side with a klemheist. I know, maybe not the cleanest install at the moment, but the easiest one I can think of right now.

[@charlesspringer4709]

I have Kevlar cord that cuts like this stuff. Your UHMWPE (if that is what it is) has a melting point of only 145 deg C. Your service temp without stretching, etc. is probably 80 to 85 deg. Don't park near the fire or on a steel plate in noon sun? On the other hand, it is good down to absolute zero, so you are good to go on Pluto! Kevlar is stronger, depending on the UHMWPE variety, and service temp is 150 to 185. Zylon is twice as strong (nearly the same as carbon fiber) and never melts. It decomposes at 650C. Zylon might be your top end fiber.

[@Ali_Clarkson]

Solid info, thanks!

[@Alan_Hans__]

Pretty amazing. The change from dreadlocks to a laced wheel is incredible.

[@sharifahzaini3561]

he is one snap away from becoming a super villain

[@RideBikes_Walkplaces]

What an excellent video bro! Great to see the popularity of it as well. Adam is a g!

[@metalmuchkin1342]

Ali that is amazing, truly mind blowing how far technically has come. Surely as time goes on it will get easier and faster to build them up.

[@JoeMortimer1]

It's videos like this that really emphasise just how much knowledge and skill is out there in certain bike shops, and why its important to support them over buying from huge online retail! Super nerdy and interesting video :) Any plans to run a matching back wheel setup?

[@BuildSomethingAuto]

Yes he certainly does know his stuff! This is a really interesting application of what's essentially lifting and handling engineering (similar to synthetic/nylon ropes). The down rating rules of thumbs, stretching, etc seemed spot on to me. The only place I could see an issue is that technically the hub side would likely be downrated due to the knot as well, but I didn't get a good enough look to guess at how much. Cool stuff 👍

[@Peter-ss1vb]

The hitch you are talking about is a Crown knot

[@mfueelcikxe]

You legends! I thoroughly enjoyed your insane level of wheel nerdery.

[@TOjoe1strow]

🤩after first seeing the spinergy wheels ricky veronick built i couldn't wait to see the larger format version cant wait to see a trail wheel build with these!

[@darken3150]

Biking isn't my hobby but the video was so interesting I watched the entire thing. I like the design and the inclusion of all the iterations that failed to stress testing, very cool to see.

[@greenfefo_fpv465]

On today's video, we are going to make Wheel Building, one of the most horrible and tedious activities for bike mechanics, even more horrible and tedious! Haha this was amazing Ali, real craftsman's work !

[@Ali_Clarkson]

haha so true although I often find it pleasurable building a wheel :P

[@jhrly]

Very interesting project, since the Berd brand spokes are $8 a pop, the sweat equity in this project would be worth it, and you have a great time in the process!

[@nikveldkamp8630]

🔥🔥🔥 A.M.A.Z.I.N.G. All the trial and error and hard meticulous work that had to go in beforehand, respect! Makes me all the more curious to ride some dyneema spoked wheels...

[@helder4u]

I don't cycle daily, still had too see this video to the end. It is fascinating and gets Your inventive ideas going!

[@ThugZ3r0]

wow! amazing! can't believe it! before this vid, I though my wheelbuilding was not an easy process. but after that amount of work, I'm really shocked!

[@lucahoell6587]

Cant wait for some big vlogs with the new spokes!

[@markhirst1296]

Amazing video, behind the scenes and really cool alternative tech. Above my pay grade, but just shows there are some proper clever guys and girls in the bike community…

[@saj78769]

Really good video and wonderful advert for Tarty bikes too. Thanks to you both

[@GrannygearKiller]

Definitely don’t think this really makes sense for trials, but this is certainly super cool! I’d be curious how durable it is over the long term. I’d be curious trying it on a gravel bike or maybe XC

[@Ali_Clarkson]

yeah, road/gravel and XC seems the best place for performance benefits but I guess I can give them a bit of stress abuse and see how they hold up

[@Ferrari255GTO]

@@Ali_Clarkson i bet they won't dissapoint

[@banoodel5121]

This guy is absolutely nuts!! Would like to do somethink like that on my own!

[@inactive67]

This was my favorite Job in the bike shop when I was a kid, but those where DT stainless this is bloody nuts. I absolutely love this, wish I was still able to ride becase I would 100% do this gimmick or not its just cool.

[@SurfLincs]

Amazing video. Gives me the same satisfaction as watching the repair shop just without the crying haha

[@Ali_Clarkson]

Glad you liked it :D

[@alimantado373]

All that work, then someone goes at a spoke with their Bic lighter? what would happen! Fascinating video watching Adam @Tarybikes at work. More features there please.

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Dude this is awesome! I wanna try it now

[@nathanmciver6496]

Would be neat to see this installed! Anything is possible! When you see that happen is a whole other thing!

[@JerryNicholls]

One thing I'd consider is putting bowstring wax on the crossing points. I'd be slightly concerned that the ropes shifting next to each other at those points could cause premature wear/fraying. Other than that, those are some seriously funky wheels and kudos for all the investigation and work needed to build those.

[@Tytoine56]

As a sailor we use dyneema for very long time, my entire boat is filed with. You definitly do not need 2mm dyneema, 1mm is more than enough. it's 200kg for a 1mm and you have a lot's of spokes as I see.

[@thetart20]

Thanks for the info! Decided to build in a good safety margin, due to the tight bend at the rim end. Normal steel spokes have a breaking load of around 300kg, for comparison.

[@stephenroberts7459]

Excellent demonstration of exactly how spokes work!

[@James_Hallam]

The amount od stretch you mentioned seems excessive for this material. I’m interested in what grade of uhmwpe you used. We use SK99 for soft standing rigging in sailing. It is lower stretch and lower creep than the lines we use for running rigging. Very low stretch. Abrasion resistance is worse though.

[@thetart20]

Marlow SK99 D12 Max (pre-stretched / pre-heated). Would like to get some DM20 to try next time.

[@concilium1]

The name of the materials he’s using is either Dyneema or Spectra. Dyneema would work better because it’s more resistant to fraying.

[@thetart20]

Yep, Dyneema. Marlow DK99 D12 Max, to be precise.

[@Fantic156]

Been using this Dyneema rope for years for winches on Landrovers for recovery purposes. Light, floaty, strong, easy to splice and much safer than 'the usual' wire rope, 'cos when it snaps it isn't elastic and flies back only a minimal amount. I used 12mm diameter for a winch pull of over 4 tons ... ;)

[@BIKE-PLUS]

A very nice DIY patent. I built my wheels on the Konger 350 LBS lines. Light gravel / cross country wheels. 29 x 25mm 1106g complete

[@greengonzonz]

I love this 💙 I would rock these wheels in a heartbeat

[@michaelbronson7410]

"Even with like one strand, you can't break it by hand" tugs on it as lightly as possible 😄

[@Ali_Clarkson]

Lol 😋

[@thetart20]

Ha! I did try, honest! It's just so slippery and hard to grip.

[@Tonkabollocks]

Spectre fishing line/braid from any shop that sells fishing tackle! (Including Target/K-Mart etc.) ('hairy bits' are fillaments bundles of fillaments, off 1 bobbin of the braider are called a 'tow', at least with glass and carbon fibre) If you can get away with the '2 spokes from 1 braid (requiring 2 'buries'!) it MAY be worth trying 'ALL spokes from 1 braid (requiring JUST 2 'buries'!)' (and no steel spoke insert!) perhaps a double tripple turn on an eyed nipple, perhaps cyanoacrylate to stop slip but if the knot at the hub works it should also work on eyed nipples! (HUGE weight an labor reduction!) Good luck guys! Jeremy the Pom!

[@clearbluelou]

My favorite video so far!

[@slicedbread9003]

I thought I would look at it just to learn more about these crazy spokes. I was surprised to come to the same conclusion as Adam, that while they are lighter and that may be the initial draw to them, they should be ideal at dampening out harshness an vibrations on the front end of a non-suspension cross-country bike. Well, most cross-country bikes ridden nowadays have a front suspension. But I don't. Between Ali's DIY forks and these spokes, this could make a nice rigid front end for a cross-country bike with disk brakes on the front. I have cantilever front brakes. Now, you got me thinking.

[@markivory7121]

Set of old cable cutters work well for cutting spokes to length, saves wrestling with side cutters. Great vid!

[@dudeonbike800]

Or just a higher quality (and/or longer) set of diagonal cutters. That was painful to watch (and do, I'm sure)! I learned to never cut spokes with a cable cutter, so I use quality dykes instead. Mine are the same size as the ones in the video.

[@konar1616]

It’s been awesome time to watch this episode. Very inspiring too. Kind regards.