BUTTKICKER Is Ruining Your Racing Sim!

[@argiovi]

You can use a lot of Bass shakers, the key is to make a good mix like in music. Use different frequencies , use left and right, use front/back, use different volumes and you can feel everything. put more emphasis on important info and less on others that do not affect much relevance . Front/back separation works better than left/right.

[@TheBombDiggity69420]

Less is more only applies to active effects per shaker. Give each channel/shaker a base job and a high priority job, like road effects and kerb vibration. The reason I have 7 shakers and will be adding more is to better distribute the effects across multiple shakers and not ask too much of one at a time. Two per corner isn't out of the question with multiple under the seat. The trick to feel the separate corners is to have the rig on spring isolators to allow it to vibrate freely without transferring the noise to the room around it.

[@nighttrain1565]

Mind listing all the affects you use each driver for and where they are located? Genuinely curious. Currently working with 3Drap feeling kit but it's like 150% Italian if you know what I mean.. everything is shipped not functioning and with improper software and improper firmware and no instructions😅

[@Genx-sim-scene]

I get what you are saying if you crank everything, but I have 5. One on each corner and one under my seat. I turn down the effects and phased them properly. Coming from an audio engineering background, you have to understand these are speakers and you need to isolate the rig, insure you phase them properly (if they are not all pointing the same direction, and isolate the frequencies. The rig will have a resonant frequency that will soak up certain vibrations and you need to tune those out and don't put the same effect on each transducer. For example I do the engine rpm on the seat only, gear shifts on the rear and the seat, etc. You can feel the difference from front to year. Mind you, it did take me weeks to get it right! Thanks for the info though.

[@jogb9515]

I disagree. I tried one on each side and it's one dimensional compared to a good four corner set up. Four provides more depth and fidelity, you just have to develop the sensitivity for it to register, just like you have to in a car on track in real life. I do however agree with the less is more philosophy when tuning the effects.

[@SimCoaches]

@@jogb9515 totally fair!

[@ianjameslake]

@@SimCoaches I've thought about this a lot, and think a config of 4 shakers, all directly under the seat in a grid of 4, sounds ideal. That way, you get left and right feel coming together in the same place, so it feel natural from a left/right car perspective of car effect. But your butt can also feel the individual suspension corner rumbles, without them feeling all spaced out over a rig.

[@rusterminator]

Less is more as far as limiting how many things one haptic unit will register. I use 5, one on each corner, and one behind the seat. My corners only register wheel slip/lockup and road vibrations (curbs and such) The middle one registers, engine and gear shifts. I feel everything in detail. Its only when you

[@redbaron2448]

I'm new to the Sim racing where is the installation video to these products?

[@FatswellSmart]

the only thing that actually matters is isolation. i used some cheap amazon iso springs on the 4 corners of the rig and that is what makes all the difference. before that the effects felt muted now due to the springs i have a slight lateral shift when turning and the effects feel almost real in vr. best upgrade i did so far.

[@leomatis_]

Can you send a link please? I searched for iso spring with no luck

[@FatswellSmart]

@@leomatis_ it's the ones with the red for around 50 bucks for a 8 pack, i inverted them, attached the silver plate to the rig to hold the spring. on the bottom i used the red rubber stoppers but cut of the ends so they are flat on the floor with the spring in them.and they aren't 100% fully attached to my rig. but it's perfectly stable and hasn't failed in over a year since installation. hope i explained my ghetto solution properly lol

[@FatswellSmart]

try searching for garage door iso springs 8 pack

[@leomatis_]

@@FatswellSmart thanks mate

[@FatswellSmart]

@@leomatis_ no problem

[@lilpup316]

I put on in the front and one in the rear.. I love it. I run engine vibration in the front and rpms in the rear, with road bumps and kerbs separated to front and back

[@SimCoaches]

@@lilpup316 I bet that works really well!

[@notatroll6809]

KZbin is the manifestation of the saying "opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one"

[@SimCoaches]

😌

[@Tiltglory]

For anyone wondering. Bass shakers are useful if you know what to expect

[@Romad_20]

Also disagree. I have the Slip Angle system on a ASR6, plus pedals and one under the seat. If it's tuned right works great and adds immersion like crazy. As someone else said, isolation is the key and not over doing it with too many effects.

[@Picks_Productions]

Disagree. 4 corner setups are great. I can easily tell which wheel is vibrating.

[@SimCoaches]

You’ve dialed it in!! Nice job!!

[@NickBusscher]

Do you use isolation dampening under your frame?

[@Picks_Productions]

@@NickBusscheryes

[@itsstubro]

What's Buttkicker got to do with it?

[@Chader9]

Click bait title using the most known name in the industry for starters. And this seems to be a counter to their ads pushing the 4-corner setup that BK sells. The video content is actually good (was expecting worse from the title). It deserves a more appropriate title than this for the decent content. "Less is more" comes to mind or something about a "blended" setup with 1-2 shakers along with 2 pedal haptics for a good mix of feedback.

[@marioslrzn]

I have the QS 220 motion and I had to take my butkickers off cause I couldn’t tell the difference with them on and had to crank them up just to feel them .

[@StancedInertia9]

i use the pucks and those are enough even at only 60% power on 100w

[@BenjiBoo42]

Underrated setup: two dayton bst1s on the back sides, 1 simagic HPR on the brake, 2 simagic HPR bolted to the pedal plate.

[@SimCoaches]

@@BenjiBoo42 ooooo HPR on pedal plate is interesting

[@BenjiBoo42]

@@SimCoaches I did not like having one per pedal, and I don't use p1000's either. Had the idea to turn them up and mount them to the pedal plate. Daytons give left and right, pedal plate gives front input.

[@metalmayne]

im gonna put an HPR on my pedal plate thanks to you - how did you manage it? I'm using VRS pedals 1 for Gas and 1 For Brake so I have an empty slot...

[@BenjiBoo42]

@ lowkey, take the braket they come with and just drill the holes open so they fit a standard m6 tnut combo.

[@dankearney8012]

Are thay actually fitted to the seat itself?

[@simracingdad8917]

You would at least double up if you have them sitting around, so like can run two of the same to make a better clearer vibration.

[@Swiitchd]

Hey, newb question but where/how exactly do you suggest mounting them? I'm new to sim racing and I didnt know if you meant I need to drill into a chair or would it be fine attached to the brackets of the frame underneath? Thanks!

[@SimCoaches]

We mount it right under the seat slider because we don’t want to drill into the seat but if you did put it on the seat you’d have better results

[@AcousticManJ]

I'll have to say I setup one at 40hz under the seat. One under the pedals at 75hz. Huge difference in vibration and now I can send wheel slip to the pedals using simhub. Great results! I always know when my grip is about to be lost now

[@SimCoaches]

You got it DIALED!! 😎

[@thedeepgroup1993]

why you don't like to use simagic ?

[@MicahAlvarezRacing]

Yeah I think that was not nice to say about SimMagic for no reason. Maybe give Tyler Wang a reason why his products shouldn't be used. I don't know I am seeing a lot of questionable stuff they build here like the smaller monitor in the middle of triple because they didn't have a bigger stand.... I don't know. I only have seen maybe 2 or 3 videos of theirs and that seems very much like Linux Tech Tips. I am sure they build great stuff but I do have to question it and give a reason. I am putting this comment under yours because I don't want it to get too much attention. New sim racers are extremely impressionable and I think need to listen to this guy with a grain of salt.

Thats why I modified my racing chair with small shakers, one on outside of each thigh, and one on each kidney, and one bigger one in the lowerback. The last on fed from iRacing shaker setup, gear and rpm almost un noticable. Rest from each suspension from simhub. Very good immersion when used

[@simonoregan4744]

Yes, you are right. But ................The trick is to isolate the bass shakers. I have 7 on my rig all isolated from on another. All can be felt independantly without ibterfering with any of the others. I used varying isolators meants for heavy machinery and had to make modifications to my rig in order to accomodate this set up. And yes it was totally worth it.

[@regibson23]

Why right/left instead of front/back? I would think it would be pretty obvious that if you're sliding in a right hand corner the side sliding would be the left side.

[@SimCoaches]

Because these shakers are great for deeper haptic vibrations like curbing, gear shifts, dropping wheels. Putting haptic reactors on your pedals right under your feet then solves having something up front Less about feeling a slide on the left or right side of the chassis and more about getting the more immersive feedback like kerbing, shifts, bumps etc through the larger ones

[@JoseFcoBN]

It's easy to talk without experience, I've been using bodyshakers for years and what I like most is the configuration I've had these last 3 years, it is expensive and difficult to assemble, but in VR+belt tensioner, it is the one that gives me the most realism and immersion... The seat is mounted on an axle with bearing (left-right to feel the tensioner more in curves) and on independent and pneumatic 4-point cushioning, it is adjustable by air, and it is a real car seat, it is not rigid, and underneath there are 4 bodyshakers, 1 in each corner, with independent grips and to avoid transfer of effects between them. I carry another 4 on my back in the same way, independent, they are 100W RMS (reckhorm bs 200i) The pedal board is mounted on 4 rubber+springs with a stop at the tip so that it only goes up and down, and that function is done by 2 12 "subwoofers, one below and one above, they are blocked and prepared as heavy bodyshakers, which do the same, and with less noise than 2 powerful buttkickers (Fischer Amps Buttkicker LFE) I also carry 2 very powerful and fast motors in the pedals (brake and accelerator) and they do not look at all like the small commercial motors ... And for more immersion, I carry another 12 "Sub prepared to move the entire chassis, which is also mounted on 4 air/water tires, like a miniature tractor. To feed everything, I have simhub with 2 5.1 cards, 6 preamps above the central monitor, so they are easily regulated and 11 mono subwoofer amplifiers (8 of 100W and 3 of 300W) The 3 screens go in another chassis, and if I'm honest, I enjoy it more than a dwarf on a giraffe...

[@larsengstfeld6744]

I disagree, as many here do. Currently using five shakers: one on each corner to simulate the four wheels, one under the seat for engine vibration/RPM. It was quite a lot of work with intensive testing to create good settings in simhub to be honest, but the ~12 hours and the effort I put into it payed off: I can perfectly differentiate each wheel and locate the effects easily while driving.

[@SimCoaches]

Great info!!

[@WoodsKushington]

Im currently going through the process to find the best and cheapest way possibly to isolate each corner. At first having all 4 mounted to the rig. i couldn't tell the difference from left to right. Until i mounted them spaced from my rig with rubber washers. Its still not the best but im thinking of taking 2 sheets of plywood, cut one into 4 sections, drilling holes and gluing tennis balls in the holes, then set the 4 sections on top of the tennis balls, mount eash bass shaker to each corner of the sectioned plywood then set my rig ontop that way each shaker is transmitting vibration through its own leg of the sim rig. Itlls still have some vibration felt through the whole rig but it should feel more localized.

[@IsDaveGaming]

I have the Manacor exciters set up on my rig, under the seat I have 2 x 50w (AR-50), left and right, these are setup of road rumble and kerbs, on my pedals I have 2 x 30w (AR-30) on the brake for ABS and on the accelerator for TC.

[@SimCoaches]

@@IsDaveGaming sounds like a dialed setup!

[@louismarauding4300]

Is it possible to use simmagic haptic reactors on console in combination with 2x dayton bassshakers on the rig ?

[@KenForsha]

Yes but you need to use the Data out to a Computer and Run SimHub on that Computer to Control the SimMagic HPR's and then the Bassshakers ....... I am running this setup racing Forza Motorsports and Forza Horizons 5 on Xbox

[@tiresandtriggers]

This is spot on! I went down this same path of discovering less is more 👍

[@SimCoaches]

I wish it did work how we thought though. haha.. How cool it'd be to have a shaker for LF, RF, LR, RR

[@Bodays]

Hi, I was strugling with this question : 2 or 4 ? Now I have the answer, many thanks. Could you please share your simhub configuration for 2 bass shakers and 2 sim magic haptic motors ?

[@SimCoaches]

Yes, no problem at all. Email us at [e-mail] and we’ll send you some screenshots of what we’re using

[@nativerezmedia]

I can't tell left or right.. But front and back feels better to me. I my real car it's pretty much the same, I feel front wheels on bumps or back.... Now what I can't feel is wheelspin from my pedal. Lol (but I can feel it in a certain frequency with my bst1).

[@SimCoaches]

Put a Simagic haptic on the pedal and you can feel it in the pedal in rl too. You notice the difference in RPM gain just like you would IRL

[@JayKBra]

I stopped using those for non-mono feedback… I let the HF-8 do all of that and my bass shakers do revs, shifts and such… for pedals agree, I use P-HPR on he throttle and Simucube ap brake.

[@leeg8461]

Did you actually install the pedal shakers? I did, and they ruined the connection from my wheelbase to the sim. Still haven't been able to fix it.

[@SimCoaches]

Yeah, we use them on almost all our simulators. We’ve never had any connection issues outside of a problem with SimPro manager. Once we swapped to simhub it worked perfect

[@leeg8461]

@@SimCoaches I used simhub.

[@jmancherjeee]

Do you have fanatec? I've seen several comments in youtube videos and reddit of fanatec gear no longer connecting to PC after settings up simagic haptics

[@leeg8461]

@@jmancherjeee Yes. And that's exactly what happened.

[@rooim1]

If you had to choose between BS1 and 300 which one you would go ???

[@SimCoaches]

They’re both good, we use the 300 on our motion sim where it’s heavier and drowns the haptic feel out more. BST1 on our lighter, static builds

[@rooim1]

@@SimCoaches Thank you !!!

[@jamalghandour8650]

There is a very long debate concerning this, and so many audio professionals spoke about this. I have been using 7 on my cockpit and yes you read that right 7. First these Daytons even though they are cheaper than the rest of the competition, and trust me I have tried them plenty. There is a plastic springers on both sides inside that tend to developpe cracks and brakes which renders them vibrating weirdly. I like the Aura's more because they are more reliable and vibrate a bit better than those Daytons. Once you place these shakers horizontally and on a plate that is connected to the chassis with a specific point the whole vibration experience changes (Something similar to the brackets sold by Slip-angle of Canada) add to that you need to use some high end speaker wires to reduce noise or what we call "bruit" it also depends on the amp used and the soundcard used so there is so many variables to it. I use 4 aura on plates on each suspension placement with limited effects and frequency, another larger under the seat with a bracket that is piston based (Buttkicker advanced) and 2 of these simagic ones on the throttle and brake. when you set them up nicely and give them a little bit of tinkering on the volume and frequency used they do become an essential part of your simulator.

[@jlich1015]

Slip-angle is from Canada?

[@jamalghandour8650]

@jlich1015 yes its a Canadian Business.

[@dylanmosley3030]

I think the sum total of what you are trying to express has some merit. However there are so many rig configurations and setups that in many cases more locations of shakers can still be very beneficial and a good thing. SimHub and bass shakers can 100% become muddied up and too much sauce but there are some cool things you can do when you explore the dynamics. Two shakers on the seat plus pedal haptics would be excellent for a lot of simulation but shouldn’t discourage more use cases.

[@Dropoff510]

Cool info. I have 2 on my seat now one on butt and one low mid back for gear shift. Going to try your set up see how I like it thanks

[@SimCoaches]

That's a good setup you have too! Especially if they're right on your seat!

[@jerrylindgren7828]

Less is less, more is more. Your improper mounting and setup is what's ruining your opinion on the benefits of more shakers. Isolation is key. If anyone wants real advice on setting these up, look up MrLatte's work over on the Overtake forums.

[@davidvenroy310]

Disagree to some extent. I have a Buttkicker and 3 bass shakers. Each one does something specific and at a specific time. This way no single shaker is overwhelmed with noise and hopefully will last longer. As four directional vibrations, if they are tuned high enough in pitch you can “hear” the vibrations from a direction. But, low frequencies are non directional and with the rigidity of the frame you won’t be able to distinguish. Rpm’s (2x) at harmonic frequencies,rumble strips, road bumps. Each works individually and feels fantastic. Also have two rumble motors, one for brake and one for throttle. Subtle, but tells me the limits.

[@technogov2]

I use 6 bass shakers. I changed each setting to a different frequency and some at different durations. Problem solved.

[@johnjones276]

No use 3. 2 for road and shifting and 1 for motor.

[@Mr_Latte_UK]

So do you want to share the effects you use Sim Coaches? We would love to see how well you are utilising these products.... Or if people buy the hardware from you, do they have to learn to tune and make their own effect profiles in Simhub?

[@SeanSeebran]

I guess he doesn't want to share 🙂

[@HizenHerz24]

I didn't think iracing supported the wheel spin simulation for the sim magic?

[@yorha2j525]

Can I use 1 of these on a computer chair I use a wheel stand lol

[@SimCoaches]

Yeah you totally can. All you need is 1 of the shakers (Dayton BST-1) and amp (minimum 50w for 1 shaker) and a 5v power supply. To connect it to your PC you need an external sound card so it doesn’t run off the same sound card as your audio

[@-Ola-.]

You are kinda close , but still very far away from the competent answer. Corner solutions reduce the energy from the shakers and even blend together so much its still hard to tell what corner actually vibrates, so the way to go is to mount them as close to youre body as possible (seat), and even better; use some kind of vibration isolation between seatmounts and rig so the energy mostly goes into the seat and not to the entire rig. Regarding shakertypes, the best solution is to use several shakers of different sizes and take control of them with high/lowpass EQ, sort out what frequencys to go where, and not running many effects simultaniously to the same shaker. On top of that, there are effects in some communities that are way better than the standard simhub ones, but you got to look for it and learn the basics the hard way first.

[@tosvus]

Sure, for serious simracers. I just want an approximation of an arcade setup

[@stereosteveo]

It can turn into endless tweaking... Then tweak some more when switching SIMS..

[@JorisOoms77]

Disagree. If you mount or use incorrectly, sure it will have issues but that is caused by yourself, not the device. Correctly used and mounted is a positive experience. What is completely wrong is title of this vid. Clickbait crap

[@codygrams]

Left and right isn’t useful information for driving. Front and back is best if you’re only running two IMO. But for sure less is more. Really just need to feel slip and lock/ABS. Gear shift is fun too.

[@PogMoThoin22]

Left to right is just another way of doing it, IMO you cannot really decipher left to right. I have BST1's front and rear, the front BST1 is toned down a little compared to the rear (80/100) as I also have decent wheel ffb. I then have Dayton Audio DAEX30HESF-4 exciters on my pedals

[@SimCoaches]

That sounds pretty cool also!!

[@kin6701]

3:13 ayo pause 😂

[@SimCoaches]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@wwjnz9263]

But when you have wheel spin, the throttle pedal in a real car does nothing. But you sure as hell can feel the chassis of the car vibrating from the tire breaking traction... Oh well. I'm sooner to go with a slip angle kit (or DIY) than to put haptics on my throttle pedal.

[@aperturescience2]

He's right you know. I use two of these on the rear corners and 2 15w Dayton's on the throttle and brake. I turn them down to 50% and it's so much better

[@joshuasmith3]

Oh wow, I never knew that. Makes sense though. I would e thought otherwise which is why I’m not the one in the video 😂

[@SimCoaches]

😂😂😂

[@Marco-mc6kp]

One bass shaker in the front , one in the back

[@SimCoaches]

Diggin!!!!

[@AdamB5000]

IMO you only need one. In a real car, when your lefts hit a curb, the entire seat vibrates. When the rights hit, the entire seat vibrates. Just use one and your brain does the rest.

[@SimCoaches]

It’s good insight!

[@stevenlarson3316]

For dirt rally one is good. I did engine vibration, jump and shift. Good for immersion. The dirt rally telemetry isn't very good for anything else. Some of the other effects are more annoying than helpful. Like I know I'm sliding, I made it slide. It's probably different for road cars.

[@anthonyhandley825]

I just took 2 of the 4 on my rig off 3 days ago

[@SimCoaches]

Having 4 would be awesome if it worked how we all thought though…

[@roelkleinekoort1048]

You shut make a video with using simhub how to set the bass shakers settings. En what to use en what not!

[@SimCoaches]

Great idea!!!

[@patogn20]

Just get something for your seat like a Realteus forcefeel. Is way better than anything debated here. Im all in to the less is more team

[@las10plagas]

all I read under their promotional youtube video is, that people don't receive their orders. those comments are years old, so are they now shipping like they should?

[@patogn20]

@@las10plagas dont know. There are plenty of pruducts like that. I have for example a jetseat. I believe next level racing have one too. Is the concept i was talking about, the vibrating cushion

[@las10plagas]

@@patogn20 okay. is your jetseat good/do you like it and couldn't do without it anymore? on the other hand, I can't find ta jetseat to buy. something like that seems way more practical than mounting motors on my butt cheeks. thx for your answer ♥

[@SimCoaches]

Curious about the Realteus, never used it

[@ELMASQUELAMONTA]

I agree lest is more

[@bubbles1525_]

What a waste of a video, if you can't feel which bass shaker goes off, maybe their is a problem with you or your settings are off, and people who mount monitor to rig with bass shakers isn't smart, tried a couple and nothing but screen shake and can't be great for screen with all that vibration constantly.

[@SimCoaches]

😆😆😆

[@staffeyx]

based thumbnail

[@SimCoaches]

🫠

[@michahund4879]

I prefer next level racings Hf8.

[@Hatredy11]

You lose credibility when you shit on the Sim3D pedal rumble kit. People who use it know that take is nonsense.

[@SimCoaches]

Sim3D pedal kit is incredibly basic. We have kits in the shop. But we’re so underwhelmed by how they felt we never ordered anymore. Plus they’re literally vibration motors. There’s nothing to that kit

[@rkwjunior2298]

Sales pitch

[@SimCoaches]

Sir, can I sell you on some used car warranty??

[@rkwjunior2298]

@SimCoaches Thats how it sounded. Lol

[@SimCoaches]

@@rkwjunior2298 😆

[@Malcolm1971]

Dumb

[@Tiltglory]

For anyone wondering. Bass shakers are useful if you know what to expect