C.S. Lewis On Calvinism And Total Depravity

[@officialDavidRees]

"God is maximal glorious all the time. Bringing glory to God is to reveal Him for who He really is. The best way we can glorify God is by telling people who He really is and getting it right." AMEN!!!

[@francmittelo6731]

"The best way we can glorify God is by telling people who He really is and getting it right." Wrong! The ONLY way to glorify GOD is by loving other people as you love yourself. This is what Jesus Christ commanded. Most Christians hate this commandment because they are in love with their hate. They want people to go to hell. From reading the Bible, Jesus Christ makes it clear that if you condemn somebody to hell, then you are pretty much condemning yourself to hell.

[@FrankMichaud-x4v]

@@francmittelo6731 😱🤣 Then why does Jesus command me not to cast pearls before swine?. Better read Psalm # 1 Wise guy🤣

[@boastonlyinthecross]

That was a spot-on analogy of your kids playing in the mud!

[@BrandonReid-j6u]

Calvanism kept me enslaved for 30 years. It is a harmful doctrine, and one that is a doctrine of demons that enslaves the individual believer, and infects the body of Christ! ❤

[@johndoe-ln4oi]

When Calvinists use the term "total depravity" does it have a different meaning than the proper English definition? I ask this because I do not understand this position unless it has a different meaning to them. God created us in His image, so we are capable of doing good things, as well as bad. Even Adolph H. was, by all accounts, kind to his dog, his fiancée and even "aryan" children. The problem is not that we are not capable of doing good things, and most people do good deeds of some sort. The problem is that we are also capable of choosing to do bad things, and we do them, while God's standard is perfection.

[@locksmith9498]

Yes, look at Paul Washer. That preacher needs psychiatry rather than more deformed theology. Not exactly a man who exudes joyfulness. It's clinical I'm telling you, not biblical. And when he does the broken voice...don't get me started. Did these guys mothers feed them on lemon juice instead of breast milk or what?

[@joelthompson90]

Through Calvinism, I never knew if my faith ever meant anything.

[@tannerfrancisco8759]

It didn't because you were effectively an idolater.

[@FrankMichaud-x4v]

@@joelthompson90 Can you explain Acts 13:48? Happy trails

[@straubury5991]

Thank you for this video. I have to confessed that I have gone down a Calvinism rabbit hole, and it really has disturbed me to my core. I thought the same things, of how could this possibly be love and mercy and it really made me question a lot of things and just filled me with dread. The gospel in Calvinism is not good news. It is the opposite of good news. Here is a quote from John Calvin about babies in hell: "We may rest assured that God would never have suffered any infants to be slain except those who were already damned and predestined for eternal death." Is this supposed to put us at ease? How could this make sense? How could heaven even be heaven if you knew you were there while billions of innocent babies are being burned and tortured? I could not have peace knowing that billions are being tormented for all eternity and that they never even had a chance. All because they were predestined to be there? Stay away from Calvinism. It will distort your view of God from His true nature of our loving, just and merciful Father, and it will present Him as the opposite of all those things.

[@Tordvergar]

Indeed, God directly contradicts this idea from Calvin. In Jeremiah chapter 32, He says: "They built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-hinnom to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I had not commanded them nor had it entered My mind " Now, as horrible as burning their infants to death was, the torment was over in minutes...which is far less than eternity! And such a horrible, evil idea had never entered God's mind!

[@mylilpc]

Such great content! Praying God’s blessings upon both of your lives and ministries!

[@brianseay8242]

The Calvinistic doctrine has haunted me for years; it put me through years of depression and constant worry, and I constantly didn't want his doctrine to be true. I held onto it at arm's length while believing that the Scriptures had to communicate it based on what these pastors were saying. Now I see this doctrine for what it really is and I know it's going to take time to get rid of the remnants of this fearful doctrine, but the fear lead me down a road of sin, addiction, and rebellion, years I wish I could take back and I can't. This teaching is destructive and I hate it!

[@christvictoriouskingdomnow2473]

Why would you let it bother you like that? Its clear that anyone who trust in Christ will be saved, so Calvinism or not, if you trust in Christ, then you are part of the elect of God. I also think it helps if you get a proper view on hell. Have you heard of Chris Date? He is Reformed, but he teaches CI, and there is a very good biblical argument why its true, and why we should not trust in "tradition" but the Word of God alone. My view is kind of neutral anymore, though I once would have been more in the Calvinist circle. I believe we should trust scripture, and scripture is clear that God is in control, and its also clear that men are responsible. What's wrong then by saying "both" are true, and only God knows how that works without contradiction? We get to caught up with what we can know or not, but there are many "paradoxes" in physics, things we just can't explain, so why not this? The danger I would be concerned about is ignoring clear passages of scripture out of fear, instead of just saying, "God I don't understand all of this, but I trust you"? I know based on this channel I will probably get comments arguing against anything even remotely Calvinistic, but that is fine, I aways just want to encourage people to read the Word for yourself, take it as is, trust God, and leave what we cannot explain to Him, that is after all part of faith. Last and not least, usually and I mean usually, so I am not accusing anyone here, but usually when I hear someone tell me what a Calvinist believes who is not a Calvinist, they are wrong, and they don't explain it correctly. God-bless

[@johndisalvo6283]

Keep hating it brother! Hate what is evil and CLING to the truth! The Lord will fully heal you of that wicked gnostic heresy!

[@williamlkeating6410]

​@@christvictoriouskingdomnow2473 We can believe both of your statements are true: that God is in control and man has free will to believe or not. Both of those ideas are in Scripture, but that is not the problem of Calvinism. The problem is that Calvinism goes beyond God being in control. It teaches God controls all things including who believes and who does not. That's a lot different than God is in control. Claiming that God can honestly say He doesn't desire anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9) while also determining for the majority of people to not believe is a contradiction. You might call it a paradox, but that is not the definition of a paradox. A paradox is an apparent contradiction that is not actually a contradiction. For example, Matthew 23:11. It seems contradictory to say the greatest person is the one who serves, but when you understand that God is love so the one who is loving others by serving them is being like God, it is no longer a contradiction. The contradictory claims of Calvinism I mentioned above do not prove to be non-contradictions when properly understood. They are still a contradiction that Calvinists brush under the rug by calling it a paradox.

[@christvictoriouskingdomnow2473]

@@williamlkeating6410 There is actually a stronger word than paradox, called antinomy, which I could have used, but didn't want to add confusion. The problem I see with your statements is you are not really believing both are true, you are still ultimately saying only free-will is when it comes to the affairs of men, including salvation, whereas I am saying both are taught, and we simply in our flesh with what we've been given cannot lean one way or the other, but we accept by faith that God has it. It seems clear in scripture that this was done on purpose, it forces us to simply trust God and leave the mystery up to Him, which we already have in other doctrines, consider the Trinity for example. I'm simply doing the same thing with the doctrine of election and man's responsibility. I used to argue and still do sometimes that you can't put the cart before the horse, meaning ultimately God's Providence has to come first, but I don't push it like I used to, I'd rather just trust God saved me, opened my eyes and I have responded to Him by faith. That is neither a free-will or Calvinist position, its both. God-bless PS For what its worth, even Johnny Mac says he doesn't know how man's free will and election are reconciled. So I probably am close to him in some ways, but take it one step further.

[@malvokaquila6768]

Don't worry brother it's not true. Calvinists not only couldn't even keep away from contradictions internally, it's also directly contradictory to the Bible. Here is even better news no one lives like Calvinism is true. Start afresh try to read the bible like a child for the first time. May God help you to just affirm scripture and drop the doctrines.

[@freeguy7628]

1 Cor 10:13 dismantles Calvinism completely. God cannot break His promises or lie. He promises every time we are tempted, He will provide an escape (an alternate response to the temptation we can choose). Therefore, we are never pre-determined to sin, as Calvinism teaches, therefore, determinism is false, therefore Calvinism is dismantled. It only takes this one verse to prove Calvinism is not true.

[@brianseay8242]

I agree! For example from the Old Testament when Joseph was tempted by Potiphar's wife, he didn't give in to this temptation nor did he escape from the temptation saying right after that it was God who "determined" or "ordained" Potiphar's wife to tempt him. That can't be for God doesn't tempt anyone.

[@JonathanCLacy]

This is a strawman of the calvinist position

[@aletheia8054]

@@brianseay8242. That’s a good one.

[@garryperrin2408]

Yes, God provides a way out to those who are called…to those who respond to Him that He has called. But do you think He does so for the world at large? The bible is His Story. Old and New Testaments. Same God. When I read the bible, I see a God who chooses His elect. Sincerely, what are the previous 12 vss saying other than they are instructive illustration about the world we live in and God?

[@SheepDog1974]

True. and good point made. Some Calvinists are "compatibilists"and that's how they would explain this away, that while there is an apparent choice, they thing they choose would have been predetermined. It's a nutty exercise in mental gymnastics.

[@tommartin5667]

Question. In looking that this issue is the following summary accurate? The two views are ... 1..God wants some people to go to heaven and He WANTS some people to go to hell. 2. God wants ALL people to go to heaven, however some people CHOOSE not to go.

[@richardjames6613]

It's two.

[@aletheia8054]

Obviously, number 1. That’s the way he created it in the first place.

[@SheepDog1974]

😂​@@aletheia8054😂 you get a double LoL

[@SheepDog1974]

#2. Clearly

[@FrankMichaud-x4v]

@tommartin5667 🤣 Exactly. I guess their smarter than most who choose the wide path. Narrow is the path that leads to true Repentance. 1 Peter 1:5. God's power. Same people believe they can lose Salvation 🙄 Charles Finney was the heretic who started these lies.

[@glennmariacher4525]

Why would God command us to love our enemies, yet He doesn't? Romans 9 is the most difficult passage in the most difficult book in the Bible and yet any disagreement with the Calvinistic view is met with vitriolic superiority. The lack of a loving response should be concerning to all believers.

[@JamesMC04]

Even apart from Calvinism, the NT, simply as it stands, seems to set a much higher standard for human beings than for God. St Matthew 18.22-35 depicts God as a monster of hypocrisy, dishonesty, implacability & vengefulness. It is a thoroughly revolting picture. And the Christ of St Matthew is a billion miles from the doctrine of a totally sinless Christ. A Christian who ranted against other Christians as Christ in St Matthew 23 against the Pharisees & Scribes, would be criticised very severely. But if Christ is the speaker, lo and behold, no unfavourable criticism of Him is tolerated. The double standard is immoral, & absurd. When He is presented as talking rubbish, people should call it rubbish, and not pretend that bigoted or stupid or immoral or irrational garbage is infallible & inerrant Divine Wisdom. The NT as a whole is very disappointing, as well as next to useless almost 2000 years later. What has 1st-century Rome or Jerusalem or Ephesus to do with anyone today ? Absolutely nothing.

[@katiefaith5381]

It is so very difficult to find a church that teaches truth and stays away from the lies of Calvinism. I am so frustrated with this fact. Where does a person fellowship😢

[@encouragingword1172]

Its getting to where getting together with just a few ppl who love Jesus at home is going to be what must be done for all. This was what the original church did. To have one man “in charge” and his word lauded as law is counter to what Christ came to do. The bible says when ppl meet together to worship that one has a song, one has a testimony, etc. Each believer has something to contribute to the fellowship. Not one glorified man on a podium with everyone looking up to him and he is the example and final word for all. He conducts and others play the assigned music. It seems from what the word says that everyone who hears from God participates and uses their individual gifts to bless the body. Ppl don’t like this pattern because its not controlled by ppl or a person but by the Holy Spirit. We like boxes and parameters but God is not a box god. To do so has created Borg drones with hive minds, not ppl joined by the Holy Spirit yet wholly and individually functioning and led by that Spirit. The current pattern always leads to the formation of cults because Christ eventually is dethroned by the pastors and leaders of the organization.

[@locksmith9498]

Study church history. Start with the apostolic fathers, many of who knew the apostles.

[@mitchielou9622]

We ran into the same problem. We had to leave a church we grew in and loved, and over the next 6 years had the craziest experiences in trying to find a church home. One of those crazy experiences was discovering Calvinism and its harmful lies. Then my friend rededicated her life to God and a small group of us are doing home church. We take turns hosting between two homes.

[@johnstewart4350]

IF A CHURCH DOES NOT TEACH CALVINISM WITH A KJV. IT'S A CULT. DO YOU NOT KNOW ROMANS 9:22-23? ... IN THAT HE STARTS V.22 WITH "THE VESSELS OF WRATH ARE FITTED TO DESTRUCTION" AND ISAIAH 63:19, "THEY WERE NOT CALLED BY THY NAME"... DO YOU NEED 489 MORE SCRIPTURES THAT PROVE CALVINISM AS "SOUND DOCTRINE" [??]

[@Mike65809]

Paul said in his FLESH dwelt no good thing. Yet in his mind he wanted to serve the Lord. The context is his life under the Mosaic Law (see logical flow of Romans 7). So man is not totally depraved. He just is drawn to sin and the Law makes it worse.

[@steelgila]

Nicely said. And reinforces that age old teaching that when it comes to issues like these we have to defer to and return to the Word of God as opposed to the teachings of men to finally clear up the confusion and the seeming endless disputes and divisions that arise as we so often read in the epistles. Ultimately this debate is probably another branch off the legalistic struggle with the Law that has been a chief problem in Christianity and the Gospel of Grace. "Oh ye foolish Galatians who hath bewitched you...?

[@Mike65809]

@@steelgila Yes Paul is writing as one under the Law and struggling to do right, which he really wanted to do. If he is writing as a Christian struggling under the Law, then the spirit of life in Christ had NOT set him free from the law of sin and death, amen? God bless. In fact, he would be contradicting much of his own teaching that we are no longer under the Law.

[@justinchamberlain3443]

3:01 the problem with pain quote on total depravity 5:01 the redefinitions of love

[@TennesseeMax]

Being a Calvinist for 28yrs always kept me in doubt about God’s specific love for me or anybody else for that matter. I came ultimately to conclude it was Luther/Calvin creating a schism from the (original schism) Roman Catholic Church. In my research for the original true Church created by Christ, I came to realize the original church and liturgy practiced by Christ’s Apostles still remains to this day in the Eastern Orthodox Church. I converted at Pascha (Easter) 2023. Every denomination in the (Latin) West is a schism from the original 1054 schism from the Eastern Church, the Roman Catholic Church. You must look to the Eastern Church to find authentic answers that satisfy. Eastern Orthodox Sunday worship (Divine Liturgy) hasn’t changed in 1700yrs. This is the way.

[@johnstewart4350]

DO YOU NOT KNOW ROMANS 9:22-23? ... IN THAT HE STARTS V.22 WITH "THE VESSELS OF WRATH ARE FITTED TO DESTRUCTION" AND ISAIAH 63:19, "THEY WERE NOT CALLED BY THY NAME"... DO YOU NEED 489 MORE SCRIPTURES THAT PROVE CALVINISM AS "SOUND DOCTRINE" [??]

[@Rueuhy]

The words "I feel" places the whole argument of election vs. choice in its greatest light.

[@tomharmon5198]

Yesyesyes. If God's love/goodness is as the calvinist says, then we have absolutely no idea of love/goodness

[@xanderduffy6461]

Indeed, just as Our Lord Jesus said “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.” (Mk 10:18) Or as is clearly delineated in the OT and quoted in the NT “there is none do good, no not one.” Humanity is utterly spiritually dead to God. The calvinists call it total depravity. The human being spiritually dead don’t know goodness, let alone the goodness of God. Gods goodness is brought to bare on the soul by divine revelation.

[@SheepDog1974]

Fine. I will grant you your nutty trail of logic; as long as you acknowledge that perfect Love was demonstrated through Christ who gave up himself for ALL that place their faith in Him for the forgiveness of their sins. True love is the laying down of one's life for those who are undeserving, while still sinners Christ died for us!

[@Matthew2540ministries]

yes with out the possibility of no is not love

[@reg7916]

Amen!!!

[@Matthew2540ministries]

If you really want another great sermon on this subject read or lesson to John Wesley’s sermon free grace

[@myronfrobisher]

When considering what Calvin did to Michael Servetus and his subsequent absence of contrition shows who he was in the final analysis.

[@sahilhossain8204]

Lore of C.S. Lewis On Calvinism And Total Depravity momentum 100

[@mikelyons2831]

I acquired & read "What love is this" by apologist Dave Hunt back in the early 2000's. I was looking for/seeking more material for what I knew was...let's just say a rather different gospel from what I saw from Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter & Paul... even the God of the old testament. Who made a way for those bitten, to be healed by simply & freely looking to God's provision of Grace...no random pre-choosing mentioned in that account. This hasn't gone away & the JMac's, Piper's & Washer types are still being used (be-it intentionally or unintentionally/mistakenly) to taint our Heavenly Father as an arbitrary, narcissistic, egomaniac by randomly chosing some in eternity past to irresistibly turn to Christ & consequently all others have a decree of reprobation upon them before they have ever sinned, to bring Himself glory??? I am commanded to keep The Faith & defend The Faith & mark those who teach otherwise.

[@christvictoriouskingdomnow2473]

I'd be more worried thinking those men are not saved just because they believe in the doctrine of election differently than you. They aren't making this stuff up, you just take the other side of the debate, which is fine, but I judge others by whether or not they are trusting in Christ alone and if that bears fruit, I see these men as doing just that, and I don't agree with them on everything myself, but I don't doubt they are saved. God-bless

[@malvokaquila6768]

Just like Eve was deceived all people can be deceived in this fashion. "Did God really say that he "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth". Certainly he only meant some and not all." Anyone who teaches that the free offer of salvation is not for all, and that God does not love all, preach a different Gospel. I pray that they are saved, but they are false teachers nonetheless.

[@christvictoriouskingdomnow2473]

@@malvokaquila6768 God also said this through Paul- Romans- 8-29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Now read it backwards...who was glorified? Who was justified? and so forth. He then follows it with Romans 9, be careful of you you accuse of being a "false teacher", because the bible is clear in many passages concerning His Providence. God-bless

[@michaelkingsbury4305]

I agree with your understanding of the heresy of Calvinism (not entirely of John Calvin himself), but I take exception to the quote from Lewis (who brought me to the Church) in that we could possibly understand God's Unlimited Goodness through our own limited understanding of goodness in our fallen state. It is a logical fallacy.

[@learn-about-God]

"I give Calvinists the benefit of the doubt that they really think Calvinism is what the Bible teaches" The elephant in the room, is that Calvinism isn't what the Bible teaches... and Calvinism perverts the Bible by introducing innocent victims into a system that masquerades as "Christianity". What is the implication of someone that only believes in Calvinism and not the actual Bible/Gospel? They are not saved. You can't believe in a different God, Jesus and Gospel and be saved. This is an important issue! We have a cult-like religion that preaches damnable doctrines masquerading as one of us. Wolves in sheep's clothing! I recommend that we draw a line and not enable wolves in our flock anymore! Don't give false validation by giving poor excuses "well, some of them could have been saved beforehand...", "Telling the truth sounds mean so we shouldn't do it...", "they believe in the same Gospel...(when they actually don't and it's obvious), etc. Draw the line. Calvinism has no right to be part of Christiandom. Period! "It would be more pardonable to believe in no God at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin." -Thomas Jefferson

[@Sarah-vs-Hagar]

It amazes me that you would use a Deist to make your argument against Calvin. And why not? Maybe you can answer this; name the number of heretical groups that have risen up from Calvinism and then tell me how many have risen up from Arminianism? I will await your answer. For now, you are a boob with a set of lips.

[@FrankMichaud-x4v]

@eiontactics9056 🤣 Ok👎 Charles Finney 🤣 I could quote you 50 scriptures, starting with Acts 13:48,John 3:8. Only a person full of Pride thinks they choose God. They get the Glory in Heaven for being smarter than the rest of us🤣. Happy trails

[@Stormer-Europa]

Calvin did start to change his view towards the end of his life Read his book on those we are not allowed to mention, On The - - - - And Their Lies, after being duped is whole life much like "Christians" are today. Malachi 1 -4 John 8:44 Rev 3:9

[@JamesMC04]

The author of "On the Jews and their Lies" was Luther - not Calvin.

[@JamesMC04]

If Total Depravity is a doctrine that human nature is wounded, but not ruined, in all its faculties, that is one doctrine. If it is a doctrine that human nature is not simply ruined, but completely ruined, in all its faculties, that is a very different doctrine. I suspect that what people reject is the latter doctrine. Which of the two is the doctrine of Calvinism ? Or does Calvinism teach something else ?

[@MineStrongth]

They teach that, concerning all spiritual truths, human nature is "dead"; meaning unable to understand, perceive, acknowledge, pursue, desire, fulfill, etc. The only way someone could ever understand or believe a spiritual truth (not falsehood) is if God first makes them spiritually alive. So, your second view is probably closest. Although I'm not sure what you mean by "in all its faculties".

[@brommerkommer]

Romans 8:29-30 (ESV) "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Ephesians 1:4-5 (ESV) "Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will." Ephesians 1:11 (ESV) "In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will." John 15:16 (ESV) "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you." Acts 13:48 (ESV) "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." 2 Timothy 1:9 (ESV) "Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began." John 6:37 (ESV) "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." John 6:44 (ESV) "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." Isaiah 46:10 (ESV) "Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose.'" Matthew 22:14 (ESV) "For many are called, but few are chosen."

[@bobbyadkins6983]

Great verses! Now just include the rest of the Bible and see how they don't support any of the five points of Calvinism.

[@brommerkommer]

​@@bobbyadkins6983The previous verses are clear about predestination, here are some regarding total depravity: 1. Ephesians 2:1-3 (ESV): "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind." This passage explicitly states that humanity is "dead" in sin, enslaved to worldly and fleshly desires, and under God’s wrath by nature. 2. Colossians 2:13 (ESV): "And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses." Here, Paul affirms that we are spiritually "dead" in sin until God intervenes and makes us alive through Christ. 3. Romans 5:12 (ESV): "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned." Spiritual death is a universal condition inherited from Adam, affecting all humanity. 4. Romans 3:10-12 (ESV): "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." This passage emphasizes the total inability of humans to seek God or do good without divine intervention. 5. Psalm 51:5 (ESV): "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." David acknowledges that sinfulness is present from birth, underscoring humanity's fallen nature. 6. Isaiah 64:6 (ESV): "We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away." Even the "righteous deeds" of humans are tainted by sin, highlighting the depth of depravity. 7. John 6:44 (ESV): "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." This verse demonstrates that humans, in their sinful state, are incapable of coming to God without His initiating grace.

[@brommerkommer]

​@@bobbyadkins6983not sure why my reply was deleted. But the Bible is filled with support for every element of TULIP. Best of luck on your journey.

[@bobbyadkins6983]

@@brommerkommer If you believe in the tulip then why are you wishing me luck?

[@clarkl4177]

Like you, Leighton, have recommend, I am learning about "both sides", as in Calvinism and Provisionalism. I'm Reading Sproul's Reformed Theology. ONE of my initial impressions is that there's so much depth in his explanations--that DON'T SEEM to have been excivated from Scripture😮 His identifying of different "wills" that we were given and that we CAN'T make certain choices BECAUSE of those wills...it ALL just seems rather convoluted 😳😣😵‍💫 OR do I need to be more willing to dig in? To unearth these deep truths that aren't apparent UNLESS I put in the effort? A little help here...

[@sheilaf8481]

I started reading him. Quoted Calvin and Augustine as much or more than the Bible. I put it down and I read the Bible. Any verse I don’t understand I go to a website studylight and read a bunch of different commentaris on it, and it becomes obvious what it means, usually.

[@extremelifeandlarydean1894]

Dear warriors of truth, this message split the arrow that split the arrow! An absolute bull’s-eye! I encourage you both to keep challenging these man centered and generated summations and conclusions about things within the word of God, that are twisted, distorted & beyond what is written. 2Cor. 4:13, Romans 10:17

[@Sarah-vs-Hagar]

Yes, of course.. Let us first begin with the nature of Adam. Let us talk about adokimous nous. They exchanged God's truth for a lie and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. You are such a smarty, lets talk about the nature of man before God. Lets talk about how man can come to God while dead in trespasses and sins. You are a boob with lips.

[@trogers6209]

If one cannot explain God to THEIR theology - they MUST make scripture up to fit their theology. THIS is what these people here do. The fact that they cannot reconcile God’s total sovereignty to man’s responsibility, they have to “rescue” God to keep Him in THEIR box ! The comments here ALSO prove this. People talking about how they “worried” for sooo many years !?!? Worried about WHAT ? They couldn’t fit God into their box! Believing God is TRUELY Sovereign is one of the most freeing, GOD Glorifying aspect of the Christian faith. Lastly, be assured, just like our salvation is ALL of God, so is belief in this doctrine. One’s eyes MUST be opened to it by our Father! But since these people believe faith is in THEIR court - they cannot believe THIS either.

[@biblebill6206]

Here is everyone listening ? the proper understanding of Rom 8 : 29 ,30 is God before you were born decided , predestined who he would call to be a Christian in their 1st life , not who would be saved who wouldn't , that is what it means . God is not calling everyone in their 1st life . Also , once your called you can decide if you want to take your calling , you do not have to . See Luke 14 : 28 [Niv] bible .

[@Matthew2540ministries]

you don’t have to believe in calvinism, do you believe in total depravity?.. we can be in a state we cannot see or God until he acts on us prevenient grace Free wheel and Wesley ism can also believe in the form of totality

[@tribe99990]

Spoken like a true humanist. God of my own design

[@johnstewart4350]

CALVINISM: "THOU HAST GRANTED ME LIFE AND FAVOUR, AND THY VISITATION HAS PRESERVED MY SPIRIT." - JOB 10:12 CALVINISM: "FOR WHOSO FINDETH ME FINDETH LIFE, AND SHALL OBTAIN FAVOUR OF THE LORD." - PROVERBS 8:35 CALVINISM: "BE THOU MY STRONG HABITATION, WHEREUNTO I MAY CONTINUALLY RESORT: THOU HAST GIVEN COMMANDMENT TO SAVE ME; FOR THOU ART MY ROCK AND MY FORTRESS." - PSALM 71:3 CALVINISM: "BUT ONE THING IS NEEDFUL: AND [JOHN STEWART] HAS CHOSEN THAT GOOD PART, WHICH SHALL NOT BE TAKEN AWAY FROM [HIM]." (LUKE 10:42 [MODIFIED]) CALVINISM: BUT HE IS IN ONE MIND. AND WHO CAN TURN HIM? AND WHAT HIS SOUL DESIRETH, EVEN THAT HE DOETH." (JOB 23:13) CALVINISM: "BUT HE KNOWETH THE WAY THAT I TAKE: WHEN HE HAS TRIED ME, I SHALL COME FORTH AS GOLD." (JOB 23:12) CALVINISM: "...BUT THAT JESUS ALSO SHOULD GATHER TOGETHER IN ONE THE CHILDREN OF GOD THAT WERE SCATTERED ABROAD." (JOHN 11:52) CALVINISM: "And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants." (Luke 12:36-38) CALVINISM: "And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation." (Isaiah 25:9) CALVINISM: "I love the Lord, because he hath heard my voice and my supplications. Because he hath inclined his ear unto me, therefore will I call upon him as long as I live." (Psalm 116:1-2) CALVINISM: "HAVING LOVED HIS OWN WHICH WERE IN THE WORLD, HE LOVED THEM UNTO THE END." (JOHN 13:1) CALVINISM: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48) CALVINISM: "If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?" (PROVERBS 24:12) CALVINISM: "I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee." (Job 42:2) CALVINISM: "And all the trees of the field shall know that I the Lord have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the Lord have spoken and have done it." (Ezekiel 17:24) CALVINISM: "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;" (Ezekiel 20:25) CALVINISM: "GOD QUICKENETH THE DEAD, AND CALLETH THOSE THINGS WHICH BE NOT AS THOUGH THEY WERE." (Romans 4:20) CALVINISM: "I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me." (Jeremiah 27:5) CALVINISM: "And as for me, thou upholdest me in mine integrity, and settest me before thy face for ever." (Psalm 41:12) CALVINISM: "THE LORD GOD HAS OPENED MINE EAR,..." (Isaiah 50:5a) CALVINISM: "I HAVE SPOKEN IT, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT." (Isaiah 46:11) CALVINISM: "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him." (Genesis 18:19) CALVINISM: "Lord, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear:" (Psalm 10:17) "We do not present our supplications before you for our righteousness, but for your great mercies." (Daniel 9:18.) CALVINISM: "IS IT NOT LAWFUL FOR ME TO DO WHAT I WILL WITH MINE OWN? IS THINE EYE EVIL, BECAUSE I AM GOOD? (MATTHEW 20:15) CALVINISM: "HE SEALETH UP THE HAND OF EVERY MAN; THAT ALL MEN MAY KNOW HIS WORK." (JOB 37:7) CALVINISM: "GOD HATH DEALT TO EVERY MAN THE MEASURE OF FAITH." (ROMANS 12:3) CALVINISM: "WHEN THOU SAIDST, SEEK YE MY FACE; MY HEART SAID UNTO THEE, THY FACE, LORD, WILL I SEEK." (PSALM 27:8) CALVINISM: "LET THY HAND BE UPON THE MAN OF THY RIGHT HAND, UPON THE SON OF MAN WHOM THOU MADEST STRONG FOR THYSELF." (PSALM 80:17) CALVINISM: "GOD IS FAITHFUL, BY WHOM YE WERE CALLED UNTO THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD." (1 CORINTHIANS 1:9) CALVINISM: "FOR YE SEE YOUR CALLING, BRETHREN, HOW THAT NOT MANY WISE MEN AFTER THE FLESH, NOT MANY MIGHTY, NOT MANY NOBLE, ARE CALLED:" (1 CORINTHIANS 1:26) CALVINISM: "I WILL OVERTURN, OVERTURN, OVERTURN, IT: AND IT SHALL BE NO MORE, UNTIL HE COME WHOSE RIGHT IT IS; AND I WILL GIVE IT HIM." (EZEKIEL 21:27) CALVINISM: "THE STEPS OF A GOOD MAN ARE ORDERED BY THE LORD: AND HE DELIGHTETH IN HIS WAY. THOUGH HE FALL, HE SHALL NOT BE UTTERLY CAST DOWN: FOR THE LORD UPHOLDETH HIM WITH HIS HAND." (PSALM 37:23-24) GRACE EVANGELIST JOHN STEWART HBH AT EMAIL DOT COM _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/

[@Bobepc]

Those are actually Biblical quotes….but not one really supports the Calvinist view. The “called” and “chosen” of God are simply those who, of their own volition, put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ and then follow Him faithfully to the end, forsaking their sin and walking in righteousness.

[@johnstewart4350]

@@Bobepc FREE WILL SYNERGISM VS. FREE GRACE MONERGISM

[@johnstewart4350]

@@Bobepc "FOR, BEHOLD, THE LORD WILL COME WITH FIRE, AND WITH HIS CHARIOTS LIKE A WHIRLWIND, TO RENDER HIS ANGER WITH FURY, AND HIS REBUKE WITH FLAMES OF FIRE. FOR BY FIRE AND BY HIS SWORD WILL THE LORD PLEAD WITH ALL FLESH: AND THE SLAIN OF THE LORD SHALL BE MANY." (ISAIAH 66:15-16)

[@Bobepc]

@@johnstewart4350 Sanctification IS Salvation.

[@johnstewart4350]

@Bobepc FAITH IN CHRIST'S FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS IS JUSTIFIED GRACE

[@leonardwilliams7772]

Exactly ! This doctrine, has brought me much consternation. The suttle devil, at his best. You WANT, to do right, so you ponder, and condemn yourself, its bs. I can blow it out of the water. Its twisted. It describes a dictator. Which is NOT rightous. And God IS rightous.

[@steelgila]

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Rom. 5:8 And... For we are his workmanship ,created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph. 2:10 Rom. 5:8 Tells me of a loving God who loves everyone passionately and uncapriciously "for while we were yet sinners..." Eph. 2:10 suggests to me strongly that the only predestination is the wonderful truth of our glorious future God has in store for us. It's Satan's game to sling mud at every good thing and hang a artificial dark cloud over all the good news God has richly provided.

[@raybo632]

Why doesn't Ephesians chapter 2 make sense, look at verse1 and compare this with John chapter 1 v 11-13.. What don't people understand. The old testament teaches that humanity is sitting in darkness. You need to seriously consider, examining the scriptures more Diligently. What does grace really mean. 1COR 1-4 examine it carefully. 2 Corinthians 4. Look at it ,don't brush over the mystery of our LORD'S Sovereignty and man's free will. Calvin didn't write Romans 9. Or any scripture, he only Expounded them. We in our own misinterpretation of them accuse another because we don't like what we are hearing. Scripture says that we drink sin like water. Removing God's HOLY Sovereignty from our minds, thinking that we are in control. Can the clay say too the Potter you did not make me.

[@fernandosviewpoint]

If man has no FREE WILL man cannot have a RELATIONSHIP with GOD. If man cannot have a RELATIONSHIP with God man can not SIN against God. All human thoughts and actions would be controlled by God. If man cannot SIN against God there is no need for ATONEMENT. If there is no need for ATONEMENT why it is in the Bible? If something is not broken it doesn't need to be fixed! Man cannot brake God's laws without FREE WILL!!! References about ATONEMENT are found throughout all the Scriptures, from Genesis to Revelations. ATONEMENT is in the center of God's Word. It provides man the opportunity to return God. Without FREE WILL, man cannot leave God's flock. If man cannot leave God's flock it is senseless to talk about his return. But through the Scriptures God calls man to RETURN!!! Is God playing? God's call for man to return is as sober as it is Jesus Christ hanging on the cross!!! To say man does not have FREE WILL is to water down God's CALL and ATONEMENT. It makes it a joke.

[@scottsinger273]

Is it a joke that man is an enemy of God until God interveans and gives that person life (born again) It is an act of God alone!!

[@papax4815]

God got glory for Himself in destroying the world with the flood and destroying 2 cities and many other things that you say God love in His actions here is love or not. It says He’s angry with the wicked every day. And He does get Glory for Himself in His Wraft also. As well as His Salvation of sinners. His ways and thoughts are not ours. Try not to even determine His thoughts and intentions

[@cal30m1]

Layton Flowers makes the Scripture fit into his own human philosophy. In this clip he says 1 Cor 13 defines love and suggests God must demonstrate them if He is love. Therefore God must never be boastful, jealous, angered, or keep any records of wrongs… (verses 4 & 5)

[@scottsinger273]

Beautifully spoken! Thank you!

[@DrewMack316]

I clicked on this and watched out of respect for the title and thumbnail. I was not disappointed 🤌🏻

[@GreatLightStudios]

Good to hear! 😀

[@stephengriffin4612]

Hi Leighton, your video often has muffled talk, scratchy. Not so much with the videos you brought ovefr from an outside source. I would guess it's your mic or system.

[@alonzomccloud4530]

It is obvious that none of those who listen to you, even you cannot understand the ramifications of sin. Read Jeremiah 13:23 ; 17:9; Isa. 64:6:

[@scottsinger273]

Wow! Spot-on! Thanks!

[@robertgoff7581]

So God can command the slaughter of animals that committed no harm to anyone as a sacrifice in the old testament, Chang the minds of kings and other leaders, walk on water, and turn water into wine but he can't justly ordain some to hell and some to everlasting Glory?? Weird..... If you know the sovereign will of God, tell us please. When we are told that man from his heart chooses his steps but God directs his path I guess God would be unjust in your opinion directing anything. Knowing a little bit about the original language primarily Hebrew and Greek, is where Calvinists get their theological view, I don't think that's a terrible thing.

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Total depravity is self defeating when they claim that we are TOTTALLY depraved, but that doesn't mean that they are as evil as they can be. I don't know about you, but if I am totally full of gas in my car, I can't take any more gas. So if we are totally depraved, how is there any room for good?

[@ChristIsKing777-hr9ki]

@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR Was Paul "living by faith IN the Son of God" PRIOR to being crucified with Christ or AFTER he was crucified with Christ? Galatians 2:20 NKJV [20] I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

@@ChristIsKing777-hr9ki Before.

[@ChristIsKing777-hr9ki]

@MyRoBeRtBaKeR If Paul was living by faith in the Son of God BEFORE he got crucified with Christ, had he died physically before being crucified with Christ would he have gone to heaven? Galatians 2:19 NKJV [19] For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. How was he living by faith IN the Son of God BEFORE he died to the law that he might live to God through faith when dying to the law happened exactly when he died with Christ?

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

@ChristIsKing777-hr9ki Before we go any further, if we ate totally ful of depravity, there is no room for goodness. Yet, Paul in Rkmans 2 says, "14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;. Defeating the totally depraved ignorance of the Calvinist. He then went to say: 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? Therefore, it comes down to what they do at His calling, humble themselves, or harden themselves before Him. Being depraved does not make you forfeit His calling. If my people, my sheep, should humble themselves...

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

@ChristIsKing777-hr9ki Paul, as Saul, had to die first, how He knew to die was by the faith of Christ. Therefore, as a result of dying to the law, he had to walk by the faith of Jesus first, that he may say I am crucified with Christ.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

Human beings are totally depraved; there is no good in us. Before creation, God chose whom he would elect to his heavenly kingdom, and Jesus died only for them. Those whom God chose cannot resist his choice, nor can they lose God's choice.

[@johnnyjohnson1370]

It’s a slander of God. Jesus said I stand at the door and knock, and IF ANY MAN answers I will come in and sup with him

[@Preasured_Andy]

Romans 9:14-24 "What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. "You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?"

[@emmanuelmakoba6085]

I don't think God pursues his own glory

[@sheilaf8481]

He wants His glory manifested so WE understand who He is. Not for His sake, but ours!

[@scottsinger273]

Sorry God created man to bring Glory to God! God is saving us through Jesus Christ from Himself!

[@cal30m1]

You must also believe that God must never be jealous, boastful or arrogant? According to you, God cannot be angered or keep an account of wrongs? (1 Cor 13:4-5) this is the problem when you rely on human philosophy like CS Lewis and do not practice proper biblical exegesis. If you take your Arminian philosophy to its conclusion, God cannot send any soul to the Lake of Fire for an eternity.

[@JamesMC04]

Lewis' approach is the correct one, because it is moral, and rational. When God is presented as behaving atrociously, that behaviour should be condemned. If the NT is religiously valid, as it supposedly is, then it follows, unavoidably, that God as depicted in (parts of) the OT behaves in ways that can only be judged very unfavourably & severely. The unfavourable judgement upon (parts of) what is said of the OT god, is a direct result of taking seriously, & applying, the moral teaching of the NT. God as represented in (parts of) the OT falls miserably short of the teaching in 1 Corinthians 13. There is no *moral* difference between Joshua in the Book of Joshua, and a Nazi Gauleiter. If the Book of Joshua is not contrary to the moral teaching of Christ, then Nazism is not contrary to the moral teaching of Christ. Adolf Hitler & the OT Joshua had the same absolute commitment to exterminating or enslaving populations who were in the way of their plans for conquest & Lebensraum. Joshua merely killed fewer people. And the Book of Esther is not much better - the solution to the intended pogrom against the Jews, turns out to be a Jewish massacre of their intended murderers. If that is morality, God help us ! Trash like the trash in those books needs to be severely judged, so that we can be protected against committing comparable abominations. Books that sanctify hatred of others are very bad indeed - especiially if they are said to be holy books. The Socrates of Plato's Dialogues can be an insufferable smug jerk, but at least one can say so without being threatened with Hell-fire. Try pointing out what odious people are praised in the Bible, & people object.

[@scottsinger273]

Wow! Spot-on!

[@Mrm1985100]

This is true also for eternal conscious torment. It would be morally abhorrent for God to torture people forever.

[@christopherskipp1525]

Reformed theology remains safe.

[@aletheia8054]

Lol

[@christophersnedeker]

1 corinthians 10For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? Those for whom Christ died can still perish either limited atonement or perseverance of the saints is debunked. Some try to twist this by saying perish means temporarily falling into sin which is just not what the word means. The greek word translated perish is apollomie which means completely destroyed, killed or lost. It is never used to mean temporary falling into sin. The only time it doesn't mean totally loss is in the parables of the lost coin and the lost sheep, but the calvinists don't say they become lost again and have to be saved again.

[@christopherskipp1525]

@christophersnedeker What is the connection between meat dedicated to idols and the second part of your post? Thank you.

[@johnyates7566]

Calvinism set me free , iam so glad that God chooses and not me , God loves his own.

[@Bobepc]

Jesus set me free. Just sayin….

[@bonnieclement2454]

You guys ate so dense and man centered.The mere fact that the Sovereign God saves any when we all deserve hell is true love and mercy.Ir is written "I will have on whom I will".Flowers you guys don't know the God of the bible.He owes us NOTHING! but hell😢 And if you all don't get that you are still in darkness.

[@FrankMichaud-x4v]

😂 Then why did those who witnessed Noah building the Ark for 120 years not turn. Try reading about Lydia in Acts 16. God opened her heart ❤️

[@randyderksen4358]

The way I understand the context of Noah's day is that the fallen angels chose to disobey and defile the earth and it's people and the people chose to follow the evil of the fallen ones and became full of evil. God did not make them that way.

[@FrankMichaud-x4v]

Your understanding 😂. Lean not on your own understanding. Noah walked with God,Noah was a righteous Man,blameless in his generation Genesis 6:9. Furthermore you said God made them that way? What God made was corrupted in Genesis 3,with Sin. You are another one who has no understanding of Dead in your sins or depravity. Oh Sovereign one😂

[@randyderksen4358]

@@FrankMichaud-x4v Is it not important to understand context. You would be a fool not to when you read scripture my friend. If you don't you are really leaning on your own understanding or worse - following the blind.

[@FrankMichaud-x4v]

@randyderksen4358 exactly 💯 so why would you not follow your own advice. Your own understanding 🤣😱. You're foolish Pride does not allow you to realize only God is Sovereign. Your so wise for having chosen to believe 🤣. You can boast about it when you meet him😱

[@FrankMichaud-x4v]

@randyderksen4358 Can you explain the Context of Acts 13:48. I can do this this all day. Holy Bible is very clear on the subject of regeneration. Only a stout hearted person or false teacher would try to refute every verse that proves its all God. Jesus told Nicodemus John 3 😁 The wind blows where it wishes... What's the Context of that Verse?🤣

[@SugoiEnglish1]

The question remains however, why do the scriptures reveal that God must act before we are able to? The Greek construction of John 1:13 and 1 John 5 and their born of God motif uses the passive. Being born of God is prior to receiving, loving and doing righteousness. There is NO ESCAPING THIS. Yes a person freely receives Christ and is then a child of God...but the question is why and how? Because he/she was born of God. No escape. You can say how are they born of God? The spirit uses the gospel to change a person. But this is passive in the one being changed as the Greek shows. The receiving of Jesus is active. To God be the glory in saving whom he will.

[@jeremiah5319]

What is Leighton Flowers' motivation for continually making videos that cause his followers to hate on Calvinists? Can anyone show me a saying from Jesus that suggests you should be hating on Calvinists? I couldn't find one. Maybe Leighton Flowers knows of one, but I've searched the entire New Testament without finding one. In fact, Jesus says we should even love our enemies! Wow! I guess you might pretend that Calvinists are your enemies... then love them? Stop hating on Calvinists.

[@Dizerner]

One big idolatrous non sequitur.

[@jeannet7443]

God can walk and chew gum at the same time (free will and election). Confused? Well, here is what God has to say: Isaiah 55:6-9 55 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

[@malvokaquila6768]

free will and election aren't contradictory as biblical Election has nothing to do with salvation. Election is to service period. God elects saved and unsaved peoples to accomplish his will in history. Salvation is voluntary, (and available to all) clearly according to scripture. It's only when you try to CRAM the bible into man made doctrines that you find contradictions.

[@officialDavidRees]

I don't see Calvinistic election here. I see it as, if our ways are not with God, then it's our way and not His. If your theology contradicts the revealed will, nature, and character of God, then it's not a conundrum or mystery, it's that your theology is wrong.

[@malvokaquila6768]

@@officialDavidRees amen!

[@aletheia8054]

Let him RETURN into the Lord. The wicked and the unrighteous there were Gods chosen nation. Not just any ole person on the planet.

[@aletheia8054]

@@malvokaquila6768. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, *because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation* through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

[@barendse1]

The analogy of the mud and children is a straw man. I'm sorry, it just doesn't actually depict what the Bible teaches and misrepresents the argument. If the analogy was a horde of murderous blood thirsty children, then it would better depict this theology. It's not a simple, kids have some mud on them and are banished for it to hell for eternity...that's a straw man

[@SheepDog1974]

I don't want to live in your neighborhood 😮

[@Sarah-vs-Hagar]

C.S. Lewis was no more saved than a hoppy toad. Why Christians give him the time of day is no mystery since we have a slew of goats in the sheep pen. Nevertheless, if you campaign with Lewis as an apologist, you probably dont know the gospel and more than likely a Romanist at heart. Secondly, I am not a Calvinist, but make sure if you consider Calvinism a heresy, to incorporate the teachings of Augustine as well.

[@SheepDog1974]

Everything but the lewis part.

[@Sarah-vs-Hagar]

@@SheepDog1974 Which part? If I am to understand you correctly, I suppose we should also accept Chesterson and Wright as well since they are popular with the people? Putting Lewis aside, are you saying you believe Romanists are Christian?

[@Sarah-vs-Hagar]

And again, if I understand you to be defending Lewis, let me add a quote of his position. Maybe you read it and dismissed it? "“There are people in other religions who are being led by God’s secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religion which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it … For example a Buddhist of good will may be led to concentrate more and more on the Buddhist teaching about mercy and to leave in the background (though he might still say he believed) the Buddhist teaching on certain points. Many of the good Pagans long before Christ’s birth may have been in this position” (Mere Christianity, pp. 176-177). Keep in mind that some publications have different page numbers, but the context IS in his book Mere Christianity.

[@SheepDog1974]

@@Sarah-vs-Hagar I have honestly never read Chesterton or Wright. I intentionally don't weigh my faith by what philosophy or previous theologians have had to say. CS Lewis on the other hand, I have read and do appreciate his work, but do not hold it as gospel. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is not helpful. And in fact if he is the author of that quote, it is fundamentally incorrect. I thought to add, he's also done a a fair bit to illuminate Christendom to the average soul. I've only recently taken on the offensive against calvinism. Is it just me, or does it infiltrate everywhere?

[@Sarah-vs-Hagar]

@@SheepDog1974 Well, I dont care about ones campaign against Calvin. I am a converted Jew. I brought the doctrine of election with me into the faith. I brought up the point to show the hypocrisy of those who cant stand Calvin. As I said above, he borrowed much from those before him, yet nobody speaks of the others like Augustine. Your argument about throwing the baby out with the bathwater does not hold water in the light of other examples. If what you say is true, then it should apply across the board with all people and doctrines. At what point do you reject Mormonism or Rome? After all, there is truth in most religions out there. Morality is common. At what point does Benny Hinn have truth to consider? The Judaizers believed most of the doctrines of the day. They had no problem with the Trinity, the deity of Messiah, etc. It was just the one issue of the gospel. So according to your logic, we need to consider them as one of the fold. There is too much information out there on Lewis and I am not going to waste your time with citations. I already told you he was a Universalist. If you want to be handcuffed to Lewis when you die, there will be ramifications I assure you. He was a Romanist at heart and Rome preaches another gospel. The just shall live by faith!

[@aletheia8054]

The same is true for free will. People believe in something that is never even once discussed in the Bible.

[@drjcw]

"Choose this day whom you will serve....but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

[@aletheia8054]

@@drjcw All of that was for told by God back in Deuteronomy The will of a man is never called free in the Bible.

[@christophersnedeker]

​@@aletheia8054free will offering in the old testament

[@danielerasmus8302]

I understand that you are on a mission to correct a gross error and I commend you on your efforts. However, you make mention of a Triune God without pause, yet this is a far greater error than that of God’s right or wrong actions. It is so because you are misrepresenting God Himself. I sincerely believe that we should begin by getting our concept of Almighty God right and then proceed, if need be, to consider what He has or hasn’t decreed.

[@GreatLightStudios]

Thanks for the kind words. I do not agree though. Accusing God of evil behaviors is far more serious and damaging than misunderstanding the precise nature of God's being.

[@alonzomccloud4530]

Mr. Flowers , you need to fast and read the Bible with no helps, but one, the Spirit of truth. Your in the mindset of gathering others who believe what you believe. You need to allow God to teach you his Word.

[@eliotlugo-hernandez5009]

I am sure that all of Christians do the same; we side with others that believe what we believe. If you don't do that then you are the only person in the world that does that.

[@kevinelvington9569]

The bottom line is that you provisionists (whatever that means lol) want to put God in your own little box of reasoning and understanding. You can't fathom a God that you can understand in your own mind. God is God. He can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. He is Sovereign over everything or he is Sovereign over nothing. You don't have to like it or understand it, you just have to accept it because it's true. It's really simple, you just don't want to accept it and you have a faulty view man and especially sinful man. Sinful man CANNOT please God. You CANNOT please God in the flesh. If you can come to God without His initiation then you are pleasing him in your flesh. If you deny this, you are denying the doctrine of original sin and thus you are a pelagian, and you know what that means...... You think there is something good in man, and God doesn't. It really is that simple. And please don't appeal to CS Lewis to refute anything biblical, that will get you nowhere. LOL

[@GreatLightStudios]

No Kevin, no one wants to put God in a box. We are basing the objection in this video on biblical definitions and descriptions of love. Jesus commands us in Matthew 5 to love our enemies PERFECTLY as our Father in Heaven loves his enemies. --- If we are commanded to love perfectly - precisely - exactly as God loves his enemies, then how are we supposed to do that exactly if Calvinism is true. God doesn't love ALL of his enemies, so at base level we should assume that if we are going to love PERFECTLY/EXACTLY as he loves, then we must not love ALL of our enemies. There's much more to this, but I hope you see my point that this argument is being led by "emotion" or wanting to "put God in a box." It's based up an understanding of the biblical descriptions and definitions of God's love and the fact that the things Calvinism attributes to God seem to objectively contradict these definitions and descriptions. You said... "If you can come to God without His initiation then you are pleasing him in your flesh." Kevin, I do not believe that anyone comes to God without his initiation. In fact, I know no non-Calvinist who has ever or would ever say anything even remotely close to this. No one comes to God without God's initiation. God initiates. God makes the first move. God is the first cause in salvation. Not us.

[@kevinelvington9569]

@@GreatLightStudios Thanks for the response. Since Leighton uses a lot of words, you may have missed it. Go back and re-watch after the CS Lewis quote. Leighton says, “if God is the type of God that would do what Calvinism is positing that basically to decree that everyone be born UNABLE TO BELIEVE, UNABLE TO DESIRE TO BELIEVE the gospel, unless they are unilateral, made to do so, through an effectual work of grace, then if that is what God is going, then how can you call that good……." This is Leighton saying that YOU CAN DESIRE TO BELIEVE before God initiates. He does this all the time. You think he is saying one thing, but he is really saying something else. He is saying, that God made man with the ability to DESIRE TO BELIEVE the Gospel after the Fall. He says it right at 3:40. If you accept this, then you are denying the doctrine of Original sin, and saying that man CAN INDEED PLEASE GOD IN THE FLESH. Regarding Love, I'm not sure what the hangup is? You don't have to be a Calvinist to know that God doesn't love everyone. The only reason people think God loves everyone is because we're indoctrinated by it from the day we are born by poor teaching and slogans. Just read the Bible. It's one of the reasons why I embraced Reformed Theology. It answers the questions to the tough verses. Of course, God doesn't love the reprobate. It's all over the Bible. Did God take out millions of people in the OT because he loves them? Did God love Pharaoh and then lovingly hardened his heart? Did God lovingly destroy all of the "ites" in the Bible? Did God love the Pharisees? I could go on and on. We are not God. We can't think on His level. He loves his people. He loves his church. And this does nothing to hurt his character. It upholds his character. When you truly come to the realization that God is God and can do whatever he wants, then you will see. Thanks again for the response.

[@GreatLightStudios]

@@kevinelvington9569 - God initiates by giving his light and word. I'm not sure exactly how Leighton would define God's initiation, but I know he does not think that we "make the first move" as it were. Nor do I. We just don't think that God's first move is a decisive "causing" of someone to believe. It's an invitation which "imitates" an ability to respond. Believe is a "response" and not something we conjure up in ourselves independently from God. To be clear then... Based on the second part of your comment here, you do not think that God loves his enemies. Correct? He has no love for the non-elect?

[@kevinelvington9569]

@@GreatLightStudios Hi. Yes, God does not love the non-elect. If He does, then he has a funny way of showing it. That's the issue you guys have to deal with. God hates the workers of iniquity (Psalm 5:5) God hates the wicked (Psalm 11:5) God hates the sacrifices of the wicked (Proverbs 15:8) God hates the ways of the wicked (Proverbs 15:9) God hates the thoughts of the wicked (Proverbs 15:26) God hates feet that make haste to run to evil (Proverbs 6:18) God hated Esau (Malachi 1:1-3; Romans 9:13) God hates the deeds of the Nicolaitans (Revelation 2:6)

[@kevinelvington9569]

Regarding God's initiation. You guys just think man is sick, we believe man is dead. Genesis 3. you shall surely die. Adam brought spiritual death, not spiritual sickness. And dead people can't respond to anything. Sounds like you're just describing prevenient grace.

[@DavidBrown-tf7uv]

Gross misrepresentation. Biblical illiteracy. Again

[@Gurgzz]

Bunch of Pseudo Palagianists in this comment section

[@JWar-]

He said it! He said the Calvinist word! Why even have debates? The Calvinist can just say the word "Palagian" in response to every point and win.

[@Mike65809]

Nice try.