CAGED Has Cracks - Here's A Better Way To Fretboard Mastery!

[@BrandonLuttrell]

Hey Charlie - newfound subscriber here. Came across your channel by chance in looking for practice ideas for theory. Have been playing for 12 years now and have never really benefited from my knowledge of using CAGED. What helped me the most early on was the Major Scale, learning the notes on the fretboard, and learning the pentatonic shapes across the fretboard. I know most of my triad shapes but the concepts of third intervals and mapping out the rest of the intervals is new to me and I am very excited to start hammering those concepts into my practice. I'm thankful to have come across this video and can't wait to dig deeper into your other lessons! Thanks again Charlie!

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

Thanks for the cool comment! Best wishes for your playing 🎸🔥🎶🔥🎸

[@lynnclark1708]

i agree train your brain to know that scale none of the rest matters much, when you hear that scale & know weather or not it's altered, let subconscious play & you just listen & adjust

[@mikecisco7941]

Love your comments at the beginning focus on playing music and not worrying about what system is best. I like watching a little bit about all of them. I learn something every time ..I've been playing for 30 years and I'm still learning new stuff and I love that.

[@martynspooner5822]

I wouldn't even think to argue with anyone but the Caged System gave me a start to learning theory, I was one of those that used to blank just hearing the word theory. Maybe I was lucky but caged kind of gave me confidence to look further. Anyways great video as ever thanks.

[@JESL_Only_1]

Yes, unlike some, you saw CAGED is a springboard, nothing else. It's useful, but isn't really any terribly original insight. If you want to really play with good people, you'll learn theory. It's a language.

[@dannymullins1484]

Thank you !! I’m 68 and love music have strummed or banged stings . Found you and this seems to be (as for me) the better way to learn what works for me to understand the fretboard at least a little. I know nothing of the fretboard a side from a few chords I learned when I was in grade school.

[@polybius22]

This is all stuff I never picked up on UNTIL I started learning CAGED. Everyone learns differently, and as a newcomer to music theory it was a welcome shortcut for me to better understand the fretboard. I don't think anyone believes they have mastered guitar once they have learned five shapes, but it's definitely not been as easy as "counting to 7" or reciting the alphabet from A to G. Putting all of that into practice in real time is taking me years and has been a much more advanced concept.

[@coloaten6682]

This video is really interesting. I've been learning keys/music theory for the past 4 years and wanted to learn some guitar. All the videos seem to talk about CAGED but for me that isn't the right way, so I'm trying to find my 'on-ramp' to guitar based upon my need, which is to be able to play simple solos over my short compositions. Trying to find an alternative way that takes into account the knowledge I have already acquired is hard. When I look at a fretboard diagram I see triads, 7ths etc. What I have done is to just dive in, start to learn soloing etc from a guitar technique perspective and just use the hours I spent practicing scales/chords/arpeggios etc play out in my creativity. I think maybe if you start to understand music it is just better to play that instrument and learn from playing, rather than learn "systems". From what I have learned the 'guitar way' of playing a chord is literally just one option of many. If you understand that then forget CAGED, perhaps. I know I'm going to, but that's not to say others just should dismiss it out of hand. As the video says, there's more than one way and one size does not fit all.

[@PawelKnapik]

I've learned basics of music theory with a piano - I can't play fluently yet, but I am able to construct major and minor scales and corresponding chords in any key from the underlying principles then improvise some melodies over chords. My approach to figuring out the fretboard was exactly like you have shown in the video: knowing how the strings are tuned and that frets are half steps I can find the min/maj 3rds, 5ths, octaves and scale notes from any starting point, slowly but accurately. The rest is practice & committing all the physical movements to memory which is a long way ahead (I'm not even at the "can play a clean sounding chord" level yet), but being able to lean back on the theory in case I'm stuck seems to be an advantage.

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

Thanks for watching and this thoughtful comment! 🎸🎶🔥

[@danhusband6154]

I agree Charlie..the CAGED system is an entry level learning tool that has limitations. It’s good if you never really intend to progress past a certain point. I did use it in initially and the best part of CAGED for me was that it made me curious about what I was missing…

[@frankm2588]

Good video. I've gone back and forth. I was anti caged, then I pretty much learned it. But I can't say it ever helped me play.

[@dannymullins1484]

Trying it and it is already starting to look better and easier!!! Thanks again

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

This is great! Thanks for letting me know!! 🎸🎶🔥🎶🎸

[@japanjay]

CAGED system was what really unlocked the fretboard for me and then set me on the road to learning theory. But that’s just me 😉

[@krisloan2378]

exactly what i need to know! Piano has always been my main instrument, and guitar has been very basic up until a coupe months ago when i really wanted to learn some blues. As I have not played the guitar much, i havent had time to learn bad habbits, so im like a blank canvas and this video is perfect for me as i really want to get to know the ins and outs without taking short cuts.

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

The piano background will serve you well!! 🎶🎸🔥🎸🎶

[@63montywilliams50]

Still watching this same video again and again. I cant say enough about what it's done for me. The other musical theory videos are good to but this is the 1 for me. It's git everything u need

[@jeffmckinnon5842]

Chords contain arpeggios, which contain the 1, 3, 5, notes, and are seen as repeatable shapes, on a guitar neck. These also outline scales, that help us, as we begin to learn to play the instrument and learn how to fret clear notes. It gets boring very quickly, which is easily fixed by playing over backing tracks that lead us to the next chord, which is usually the most important part of going from playing mind numbing scales, to actually making music. Add a backing track, and that box you think you are stuck in, simply falls away.

[@63montywilliams50]

Ive watched this video well over 50 times and Im still learning from it. I like the other content as well but this one by far dose the most for me. Tbh I never really understood penatonics, I just knew the shapes. now I understand and yeah I agree 100% this is much better to learn than caged

[@ericschwartz8778]

Great advice. Thanks Charlie!

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

You bet!

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

Thanks for the comment!! 🎸🔥🎶

[@JeremySmith23]

Imo, Caged is a useful map, and makes learning triads and such easier.

[@thFaust]

Yes, it is just a way to visualize all the notes of any major chord on the fretboard. And it does not really have "cracks" because it contains every single of those notes. So saying something like don't learn it, learn music theory instead, does not make sense to me, because it is literally the same as learning the major chord all over the fretboard. You don't have to call it CAGED, call it major chord, but everyone who learns music theory implicitly learns that as well anyways. I guess it is just a bit of clickbait in the approach to critizise something a lot of people know..

[@davidmukalay3536]

Yeah, as long as you call it something else than CAGED is "fine". Yet they are all doing it. People should focus on skills( theory, techniques etc..) not the tools or system. "All roads leads to Rome". Everyone sees something differently.

[@NS-no1li]

How do you play caged half or whole diminished.. ?

[@DerFuchsJr]

it also makes learn arpeggios much easier

[@thFaust]

@@NS-no1li for diminished chords, you wouldn't really call it CAGED anymore. But you can of course do the same thing. Find all the notes of your chord on the fretboard, split it into 5 chord grips, voila, you are done. Diminished are very symmetrical, so it is more like just shifting the same shape a minor third up or down.

[@marcelbelanger4424]

Thank you, this is an excellent lesson and it'll help me play better. I also find CAGED to be very useful. Each additional way to understand the fretboard helps the knowledge stick.

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

Thanks for a very cool comment! 🎸🎶🔥

[@isaiahmarquez9717]

That scream at :10 seconds! 😂😂😂 I’ve never been a fan of CAGED. I started to learn it and thought, “This is redundant.” It’s called putting in work! If CAGED works for you, cool. I don’t like it. There’s a guy that I really WANT to watch but everytime I start one of his videos, it’s ALL ABOUT CAGED. CAGED is always a prerequisite for everything he does.

[@davidadkins2563]

Makes total sense,, better than the caged system in my opinion,,but now to get all that information into my head,,

[@alchemysticgoldmind4164]

I disagree...most people don't understand it the CAGED system..it not based on chords...it like studying the sax but not studying fingerings... People that know CAGED know know it's in every thing 3,NPS....It's your opinion..but there things that are not being seen...I go with Guthrie Trapp..Thanks for the Video and info RESPECT

[@JESL_Only_1]

He has the virtue of being absolutely right. I knew very little about music. I figured out CAGED for myself fairly early on. CAGED is a crutch for the absolute beginning. I'm a very experienced player, a semi-pro, R&B and some jazz, etc. I studied music assiduously and became a much, much better player, because I know how it works. You have to work with others and the language is theory. If you don't know standard tuning is a pentatonic scale, you need to crack the books. There's no point in exploring an alternate system that is a translation of an existing language - and calling it a translation is being kind, on my part. Nobody says you have to play jazz, but you're not going to understand harmony, musical forms like I IV V; ii V I, vi ii V I, what a cadence is, and vital components like rhythm playing and comping. You can stay in your living room or you can learn the intrument and play with good people. If your band gets signed, you'll learn basic theory, believe me, one way or the other.

[@deltafour1212]

What a godsend!

[@keithcourneyea1609]

Fantastic, I’ve learned in a similar way.

[@Veloandvino]

Wow 🤯, sounds like actually learning music theory can help you learn to make music. I am guilty thinking you can find a pattern and then learn the pattern at the different root notes, but have no idea what the other notes are. Then I wonder why I can not translate the ideas in my mind to the guitar. Great information and thanks for explaining music theory in a very simple way. Bravo!

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

@@Veloandvino you nailed it…all guitarists play patterns - but being able to connect the cool ideas you come up with is key. Especially as the music you play gets more complex. Thanks for the comment! 🎸🎶🔥🙏

[@Skipjacktunainacan]

Great lesson , thanks Charlie

[@kusnadi1349]

I liked your lesson. Thankz. God bless you

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

Thank you!!! 🎸🎶🔥

[@sockenfrank]

You are so right, thank you.

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

Thanks for watching! 🎸🎶🔥🎶🎸

[@miketransporter5638]

Half a video saying why caged is inferior would have been better showing us the some more necessary theory. I am currently leaning guitar and find your videos very helpful. Thanks

[@erichartwell6792]

Knowing your triads is much better if you ask me💯

[@JESL_Only_1]

He's just not covering that. This is more of a glorified rant - a very good rant, indeed, but the vid is long, anyway.

[@williamrome2257]

Awesome.

[@rogerYT69]

great video! 😊

[@Bojangles149]

And now someone is going to want to show the new super chord system. That's playing gluten-free, caged free, and carefree. Now we know the metaphorical way of what noodling is. For me, I learned relevant tools and trim the fat. I do not have to have the expensive acetylene to cut my strings when propane is fine for all my metal....without the account and cost. The turquoise guitar I made over 6mnths off n on. It was a great journey, challenge and rewarding. I just had to be I the mindset when I was in the process. I get your wisdom, thanks. Good to reafirm and never a mistake to keep the music tools appraised. I always am benefiting.

[@mykneeshurt8393]

caged teaches root notes and where the third and fifth are in relationship to the root. They are all just notes on the fret board. There are many ways to look at them.

[@dennismwamba7600]

I agree with you I find the caged system a bit confusing

[@liamazael]

"PLAYING FOR DECADES" are the key words sir.

[@konarain]

caged is a way to know where the music is..easier way to find notes..guitar frets aren't like a piano..it helps

[@CalvinLimSH-ld5le]

Caged is the framework but music theory is still the fundamental to learning the nuts and bolts of music.

[@stevieboi61]

👌 thankyou

[@seannachaidh9999]

CAGED is limited. Any tool can become a crutch when improperly used. But that doesn’t mean that it's unhelpful. It's not a substitute for learning theory, but, for me, it is the best tool for moving my music theory knowledge all over the fretboard in an instant and always knowing where my roots, thirds, fifths, and sevenths are in relation to wherever I am. By leaning your scales starting with the index or pinky finger on the E and A strings, you're just learning the E, G, A, and C shapes of CAGED without calling it CAGED. I studied music theory and composition at the university level on another instrument. CAGED was the fastest way for me to transfer all that theory knowledge to the fretboard. It's not either CAGED or theory. It's both/and.

[@NS-no1li]

If your going to learn music ( playing guitar or any other instrument) .. you need to be able to use and understand the language. Music is a language… All aspects of learning are constant to learning music ( in this instance.. guitar) .. Understanding the instrument you want to learn … means using your ability to better learn both your instrument of choice.. Once you learn the language of music.. you can easily transfer that to any other instrument. If your serious able learning an instrument.. learn the language .. If you wanted to live in foreign speaking country, you would have to learn their language…or you will find yourself trapped in your own ignorance…. Music is a language.. learn it to the best of your ability.. You will regret it in the long term as a “musician.”

[@theelderskatesman4417]

Caged is a guitar specific solution to a guitar specific problem arising from the way guitars are tuned. You don't understand the why of caged because you don't understand the caged system.

[@JESL_Only_1]

You're amusing, seriously. I'm an experienced player. I'm a semi-pro, I've played in bands and a studio or two. I play R&B and dabble in jazz. I know what I'm talking about. He knows what he's talking about. You don't know what you're talking about. Seriously, you don't. If CAGED helps, fine, but no real players talk that lingo, because proper terminology exists, and theory is no harder than basic algebra. The best way to learn theory is knowing the history of Western music alongside, because a lot of it is foreign languages and mysterious notation, but... BUT it's absolutely worth learning the basics & really understanding the instrument. Vaya con Dios

[@jazznotes3802]

CAGED will keep you caged! It’s involves massive amounts of memorisation for learning the modes, arpeggios and other scales and them cowboy chord shapes fall apart soon as you move away from the diatonic scale. “It’s harmonic & melodic minor fingerings are awful to say the least, as goes for it’s arpeggio shapes. This is because it’s NOT a system, despite the name “CAGED System.” Why? Because it’s unsystematic! It’s just something people use as a crutch, because it’s easy to teach and learn. People say “many great and famous guitar players use CAGED, like Guthrie Govan.” Trust me they may have learned it at some point, but most of them are NOT actually thinking CAGED when they play. Believe me Guthrie was my teacher back at ACM in 1999-2000 and he was teaching the “Three Notes Per String System” and the focus was on how the modes do NOT have their own separate scale shapes, and how to take the same Major scale patterns and turn them into all the modes. Guitarists that know CAGED “ALWAYS” need to step out of it to become a great musician. Why? Because of it’s limitations and many holes. The better approach is learning things as they really lay on the fretboard: Pentatonic scales have five note so use five shapes/patterns. Diatonic scales/modes have seven notes, so use seven. Triad arpeggios have three notes, so use three inversions. Seventh arpeggios have four notes, so use four inversions…. You get the picture. This way you have no holes in you playing and zero limitations with what you can do and this (not CAGED) is how thing’s really lay on the fretboard visually.

[@geraldolivier3681]

​​​@@jazznotes3802 I hear you and agree. I find when I play I only use partial pentatonics, then a semitone is added and a chromatic note in between. Yet it is important to know about them so you Know what you are doing. Triads unlocked the guitar universe for me, then I started finding the minors easily from the major, and the 7ths and and... The inversions did take bit longer, but by then an audience ear would never be acute enough to know a difference

[@arithmetech]

Respect to you man. But nah CAGED is useful. You need a way to get a toehold on the fretboard when you're a beginner. It isn't as simple as "learn music theory then apply it to the fretboard." An aspiring guitarist could stay stuck into their 40s trying to figure out how to do the "apply it" part. CAGED is just training wheels that provide a beginner's roadmap. Eventually you know your way around well enough and the trainers come off. My first woodwind classes were taught with Essential Elements. Guess when I last thought about Essential Elements.

[@erichartwell6792]

Neither does my teacher is not needed 💯

[@ytpi3142]

It's good to challenge established ways of thinking and I found your video quite thought provoking. I agree with many of your points. However, what you are criticising is not how I use, or think about, a CAGED based approach. Perhaps the problem might relate to how some teach or perceive a CAGED based approach. I think individuals can take the basic concept and adapt it to their own needs and use it in a way and a level that they find helpful. I use a CAGED framework as an aid to fretboard visualisation and in that role I find it extremely helpful. In my case, it's an aid to visualising interval patterns in manageable chunks, which can then be adapted and extended as I wish to form such things as scales, chords and to see the interrelationship between scales and chords. I don't view CAGED as some sort of 'unified theory of everything' and I don't view it as being intended to be a substitute for other music theory. It's just one of a number of fretboard visualisation techniques, which include CAGED, 3NPS and Interval visualisation. I use a mixture of all three, but I happen to like building things on a CAGED framework. Use whatever floats your boat :) Check out Martin Miller on this subject, which broadly fits with my way of thinking. Can I recommend the following videos: "Fretboard Visualization - Tom Quayle vs. Martin Miller Methods (Vlog #5)" and "3-notes-per-string VS. The CAGED System - Mythbusting with Levi Clay (Vlog #8)" I also like how Jack Ruch adopts a CAGED based approach. His videos are well worth checking out for a blues/jazz based approach.

[@DeathgirlMusic]

I knew I didnt want to get caged in!

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

@@DeathgirlMusic thanks for taking time to comment!! 🎸🎶🔥🎶🎸

[@HeavyLiftGang19]

C A G E D is incomplete!

[@jonoftheford]

9:50 CAGED is just another tool in the toolbox.

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

@@jonoftheford it’s all about finding what works for you right?? So many ways to try to get the message across. Thanks for commenting!! 🎸🔥🎶

[@jazznotes3802]

CAGED (NOT a) System IS massively flawed. I agree 100% with this, and this is coming from someone that fully understands it inside and out.. But in this video i can tell you experience/understanding of it looks to be very limited, no disrespect intended here. But I agree with “the better way” you show in this video and is very close to how I view the fretboard (as it really is) but I disagree with the intervalic approach. Although learning all your intervals is important and very useful, but they are just the measurement from one note to the next, and they tell you nothing about the harmony within a key, moving from note to note and the different emotional response this has within the key. Using intervals “as a crutch” has it own pitfalls, just like CAGED visualisation. The better way is to simplify it all: By simply numbering the Diatonic Scale notes as 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and keeping this basic framework throughout. So for example: a “two, five, one progression” is not only the chords built from these numbers of the diatonic (Major) scale, but you think in term of these number only and leave the intervalic labels behind: So you simply think of the Two chord as containing the notes 2,4,6 (& 1 if thinking of 7th chords,) the Five chord will be 5,7,2 & the one is 1,3,5. To solo over this progression you keep the same simplicity and just target these numbers as the chords change. This way NOTHING changes and you have one consistent map, no matter the Key or Mode your playing in. Thinking of the intervals all the time only creates “moving goalposts,” treating each chord as it’s own separate island: “Oh I’m on the two chord I better target the minor 3rd, oh now the five chords playing now all my intervals have changed in relation to this chord and so on….” You get the picture? It’s like having the “rug pulled out from under you feet” every time a chord changes. But by just keeping the basic numbering of the diatonic scale glues it all together, diatonic harmony, modes, chords arpeggios, the lot. The misconception people have with the way of thinking I’m talking about is “they think I’m just relating back to the Major scale all the time, but this is untrue. If I’m playing in Dorian I am thinking the “second harmonic environment of the diatonic” scale but just like using these one octave shapes near the end of your video, each mode has it’s own one octave fingering (in fact there’s 3 for each mode built from one of three fingers,) so I can start play any mode, from any string, off any note using one of three fingerings. But at the same time I also know where all the other chords,arpeggios and modes are within that key. So the fretboard becomes just one unit. The pros of this “Three Notes Per String System” (and yes it’s a system I’m talking about here) is you only need to learn one diatonic scale and by shifting just one single note (note 5) up one fret, you now have the Harmonic Minor scale with all it’s modes. Do the same again with another note and you have the Melodic Minor scale, plus it’s modes. That’s 21 modes with just two alterations 😮 , but you can still visualise the same diatonic scale the whole time. Because they’re only slight alterations. This cuts scale memorisation down tenfold. 1234567 can go a long way.

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

I love the comment, thanks! I know a lot more about CAGED than can be expressed in a KZbin video, especially with today's attention spans. Are we talking Blue Bear School of music and specifically the teaching of Keith Allen? Are we talking Bill Edwards and the "Fretboard Logic" books? Are we talking the Berklee books by William Leavitt as they certainly have shapes that some people called CAGED. It's my experience that CAGED means so many things to so many people - and it seems that the proponents of CAGED somehow find a way to relate EVERYTHING about guitar back to it. I encounter so many folks that are completely confused... is it just 5 chord shapes? 5 chords and the pentatonic scales? Then you get into the silly arguments like picking efficiency that I have no time for. And yes... I'm all about the numbering system, use it all the time, live by it when gigging etc. I really do appreciate you taking time to comment!

[@jazznotes3802]

@@CharlieLongGuitar Thanks for clearing that up, and my apologies for assuming any lack of understanding with regards to CAGED. I see you know a lot more than what was mentioned in this video, for sure. Yes, I agree too that probably the most damaging part to the “CAGED System” is that they try to relate everything back too and it doesn’t work. Why? Because it’s not really a “system” at all, like it’s name implies.

[@seanverso6712]

It certainly does cage you lol

[@maplechill75]

Dang!… I’m getting the impression that CAGED kicked your dog, stole your car and ran off with your wife!

[@JESL_Only_1]

He's a little exasperated and it's understandable, frankly. If you want to play in the real world, use the language everybody uses. An 8th grader can understand it.

[@maplechill75]

@@JESL_Only_1 I don’t think there is anyone who won’t understand the point he is trying to make within the first minute. Ten minutes on weaknesses of CAGED is excessive.

[@JESL_Only_1]

@@maplechill75 I know you were joking. Meh...I'm an editor, I'll grade him easy. Besides, fast forward, if you're bored. I think I did, actually.

[@stevie-con67]

I see CAGED as a useful tool but it’s not the tool box.

[@CharlieLongGuitar]

@@stevie-con67 great comment

[@stevie-con67]

@@CharlieLongGuitar Thanks. I like to think I made that up myself but I probably heard it somewhere 🤣

[@carldulcie364]

way to confuse dude ................................imho

[@JESL_Only_1]

Thought it was pretty clear.

[@lucasfilmgirl4102]

You spent the first 10 mins talking about why you shouldn't use CAGED, but then proceed to talk about other concepts without explaining why you should use them. Why learn all those third intervals all over the fretboard. How does that help me day to day, to learn a song or improvise? For such a long video you missed the crucial part, the "why".

[@JESL_Only_1]

Why? See history of Western music. I'm an experienced semi-pro. It's the way things evolved. It's highly structured, but not quite like math. Some of it is just conventions. Yes, you have to do the homework, but it's absolutely worth it in every way.

[@jeanmichellenorcy2812]

Beaucoup de causerie, dommage.....

[@JESL_Only_1]

Don't hold back, tell the OP what you really think.

[@garyeggleton1142]

I learned all those things with caged, sorry

[@lloydsarnowski6986]

😅

[@JESL_Only_1]

No, you didn't. There is no substitute for knowing your theory, and this is just skimming the surface, it's not even theory, really. There's no substitute for knowing how the instrument works. I don't think you've played out in a band. Singers change keys all the time, you're going to hold things up while you figure it out? Never mind singers, other players might know numbers in a key that you didn't learn it in. Theory is a language, and you're going to have to learn it if you want to move out of the living room and play with others in public. The Beatles had George Martin to arrange their ideas, but they knew what a borrowed chord is, using chromaticisms, using enclosures... CAGED is a useful tool for basics. If you want to be a player, you'll learn theory. I'm a player, and we can always tell - I'll know it in fifteen seconds. I'm an experienced semi-pro, and you never stop learning.

[@lloydsarnowski6986]

Been playing in live bands for 40 years you never stop learning

[@stevieboi61]

lol.

[@myoriginalname]

Liar liar pants on fire 🙃

[@CatfishCheese]

Ya know what's a better way, jus learn fn chords in every position. Slackers!