1101. Are Pinlocks Worse than they Used to Be? | Kawasaki Z1000

[@ItsBeenDanBefore]

Hi, used to work in the bike trade until a recent illness that still has me mostly off my feet, lots of experience with problems with Pinlocks - a lot of it is that helmet manufacturers often consider the visor one of the final thoughts, then fogging after that. I would never grease/lube a Pinlock seal, simply because you don't know what might react to the seal and it will trap particles. Pinlocks have 3 grades of resistance: 30 (shit and cheap), 70 (alright, comes with 90% of visors) and 120 (best fog resistance outside not having something to fog), there will be a number on the actual Pinlock. There will always be a degree of light blocking/disruption due to the fact it's a plastic on top of a plastic. Often times, why Pinlocks are fogging are: overhandling/cleaning wrong (basically, don't touch the surface of a Pinlock, grease from your skin gets locked in and to clean, use water and no cloth and let air dry); needs adjusting (Pinlock pins on the visor are eccentric and can be turned a fee degrees, this can take a long time); Pinlock itself creating a poor design (Shark, old Arai, Schuberth and occasionally Nolan helmets need their Pinlocks actually trimmed or need adjustment out the box); poor ventilation (take out your chin curtain, trust me, it traps too much heat, and keep that front vent open 24/7); and, rarely, dud Pinlocks - it happens, it's a sensitive plastic, most shops will replace them FOC if you bought the helmet there. Pinlock have also introduced a 120 XLT (found this out about a year before it came out thanks to a patent mishap) which is the same fog resistance but much thinner to reduce visual disruption. Your best bet would be to visit a local, trusted shop and speak with them, because provided it's not a place like J&S, staff will be trained to make those adjustments and advise from there

[@CalmBiker]

I have a feeling that the design of the visor just doesn't work well with the pinlock. Aside from the clarity (mine's a 70 btw), I think there's always an area that doesn't touch the visor fully. I've adjusted repeatedly and that area moves around but never goes away. It's very frustrating!

[@ItsBeenDanBefore]

@CalmBiker what helmet is it?

[@CalmBiker]

@@ItsBeenDanBefore It's a Skark D-Skwal 3.

[@ItsBeenDanBefore]

@@CalmBiker surprises me, the VZ400 visor is one of the easier ones for an immediate seal, but that doesn't prevent it being either a bad Pinlock or possibly even lack of airflow around the visor (my Shoei would be horrendous for fog, especially with the Pinlock until I took out the chin curtain)

[@CalmBiker]

@@ItsBeenDanBefore I guess the chin curtain plus the camera position interfering with airflow could be problematic. I might try without the curtain and hope it doesn't kill the audio for my recordings.

[@NooBiker]

The insert absorbs moisture but it doesn't have infinite capacity, so given enough load it will eventually get saturated and start to mist. The insert does have to be cleaned regularly, with a cloth or by careful washing 👍 Jabbering into the helmet and sticking a camera in front of the vent doesn't help, as I've discovered 😂

[@CalmBiker]

You may have a point on the jabbering. I do a lot of that! 😀

[@johnrocker2986]

The visor once was stuck on without the pins they worked very well but difficult to line up squarely, todays pivoting pins are very hit and miss during setting up. Another issue the plastic is easily damaged with some cleaning liquids and then becomes sticky, I have removed the things and feel better for it. I feel you are correct like many items quality is becoming poorer.

[@CalmBiker]

I've actually had one of the pins break. I guess I adjusted too many times and it gave up on me 😞

[@banditnev]

I have a stick on type antifog on my visor, you can stick it on the front or inside and it is okay but as you said about how smeary they are but it does the job of stopping the fog inside the visor.

[@CalmBiker]

I might end up trying one of those.

[@caffeinerobot6]

The only time I've ever used a helmet without pinlock was for my CBT when I borrowed one (can't remember what the brand was), this was early summer and I definitely remember it misting up quite a bit and having to open up the visor several times. After my CBT I got an AGV K3 that came with one, I didn't even know what a pinlock was at the time. The shop fitted it for me, they had to go get a tech that was qualified to fit it and I haven't touched the visor or pinlock since other than wiping them down. Have to say I've had zero problems with misting since getting my 125, completing the DAS and then any riding since, to the point I've forgotten it's even a problem. Hard to say if it's the helmet design or the fitting that's meant I've had no problems but it just seems to do its job. Interesting you mention the visibility and streetlights, on the pinlock instructions that came with my helmet it actually says "Never use this anti-fog lens at night" and "This anti-fog lens does not meet light transmission standards for night-time use" along with some other warnings. I wonder if that could affect an insurance claim if you're found to be using a pinlock at night.

[@CalmBiker]

That bit of text about not using a pinlock at night is quite an interesting one. I hadn't noticed it until I got my latest helmet so wasn't sure if it was new or not. I can't imagine many people removing the pinlock at night though. They are a pain to fit and it involves a lot of flexing on the visor that I wouldn't want to be doing daily!

[@onenoodles]

I have had loads of Pinlocks over the years and always been pleased ... however, I fitted a new one on my Arai a few weeks back and found some misting and can not seem to get a good seal and as you say, it seems to take longer to clear

[@CalmBiker]

This is basically what I've experienced too. On previous helmets they've been amazing. I suspect the visor design is the main culprit.

[@Jim-nm1en]

I have a Caberg flip front helmet and found that I had to gradually adjust the eccentric pins to get a good seal, plus, the pinlock that came with the visor pretty much matches the helmet apperture and have never had any visibility problems other than my glasses misting up when I forget to give them a wipe over with anti fogging fluid.

[@CalmBiker]

I've had to do that on a previous helmet and had success. I think there's something about the visor design on my current helmet that's causing the problem. I've tried so many adjustments now but they just move that fogging problem around. At the moment I have the pinlock back in after problems on a wet ride (in my next video) and it's fogging in a different place 😀

[@brockett]

Air gap on top edge of pinlock - losen it and refit with top edge pushed into place first. Air gap at lower edge - then refit with low edge first. Pinlock film gets dirty and can be clouded by improper cleaning. With pinlock removed carefully clean the inside on the visor. Pinlock can be cleaned with good quality spectacle lens cleaner and a very soft cloth. At a pinch use de-ionised water.

[@CalmBiker]

I did try that approach and now it fogs up at the edges 😀 I suspect that the visor design on this helmet is causing a fair bit of the problem.

[@bikersquest]

The Pinlock material does saturate eventually and start misting as ItsBeenDanBefore explained the grades indicate how long they last in their moisture chamber test, high end helmets usually come with 120. Incidentally they just came out with their clearer XLT models which is supposed to rectify some of their clarity issues. Something else I found out was the ProtecTint photochromic models were worse than the standard clear model for fog resistance, maybe they've fixed it now but I emailed them about it fogging up very quickly despite having a good seal and they sent me a clear one instead. That was a few years ago, maybe they solved that too but the tint feature wasn't very effective anyways as the visor absorbed most of the UV required for it to tint. Also I had that tiny gap issue on my Arai I think it was eventually fixed by just getting another one and slightly playing with it's positioning but yeah once it starts fogging through a small gap it takes a long time to air out and can be very distracting and dangerous! Of all the helmets I had which use Pinlocks I feel Shoei implemented them the best on their visors, never had an issue since I got it 5 odd years ago.

[@CalmBiker]

Mine is definitely the second problem. It's the visor behind the helmet that fogs, rather than the insert itself. I just can't seem to get that seal.

[@bikersquest]

@@CalmBiker Sometimes the cams can help on the pins to tighten the seal, might be worth a shot if you haven't already otherwise anti fog clothes usually work on visors directly, you just have to reapply here and there.

[@CalmBiker]

@@bikersquest I've fiddled with those until one broke but just moved around the spots that misted. Do you have any recommendations for antifog? I did try a spray once (years ago) but found it blurred the vision so polished it off and never tried another.

[@bikersquest]

@@CalmBiker Yep, you can give Revision anti fog cloth a go (usually on ebay), they last ages and can be used on your glasses too. I found Fogtech DX best on visors but cause a rainbow haze on glasses. One tip with the revision cloth it works best if you fog/breath on the surface before wiping it. Alternatively you can give those after market glue on inserts a go like the WeePro anti fog insert. I have a vid comparing some of them called "Ultimate Motorcycle Anti Fog Comparison" if you're curious

[@CalmBiker]

@@bikersquest Thanks for the tip! I'll give that video a watch.

[@christianweller4288]

If fogging is a problem…. Scott goggles+anti fog spray from a ski shop. Managing wet air from breathing out is the key. I’ve got nothing against Pinlocks, but “double glazing for helmets” does seem to be stretching it somewhat. Whatever works…. works safety first, important not to ride with any form of visual restriction.

[@CalmBiker]

The double-glazing bit isn't accurate but I think it gives an idea to those who haven't seen one before. I did try some antimist spray once.

[@SouthWest-jj8yu]

I have several helmets all with pin locks. I think of them a bit like screen protectors you get one chance to fit them right or end up taking it off and buying another. I do see them deteriorate as time goes on when marks and scratches appear and in general the pin lock looks more fogged. Some seem to fit better than others, I have an HJC and last one I put on just never sealed properly. Price is another thing that maybe makes me more reluctant to change regularly I have a Schuberth C5 and a new visor and pinlock cost near to £100.

[@CalmBiker]

£100 for a visor and pinlock. Wow! 😲 I think there's just a fit issue with this helmet and visor unfortunately. It's not a problem I've had with previous helmets. In the past I had to adjust one pinlock to stop it but no end of adjusting on this helmet has not helped.

[@upnorthbiker]

I have just reported the same issue in my latest video. The pinlock works fine when you first get it but if you ever remove it then it never seems to go back how it was and you get that annoying little patch of moisture as you describe.

[@CalmBiker]

It's really annoying, isn't it?!

[@letmeoffthisplanet6208]

I've a HJC F 70 with pnlock and recently i've had it fog up but that was after a ride and stopping for a break so it cools off. A few seconds of having the cold lid on results in fog but open it let the air in and it clears fine. Apart from that i've no issues at all.

[@CalmBiker]

That's what I've had with previous helmets. I think the helmet compatibility with the pinlock isn't quite right on this one.

[@HippoDrones]

Airsoft is great fun... not played for years, but used to spend a fortune on it 😀 My HJC PinLock currently mists a bit, not sure why... I guess it hasn't sealed quite right as it used to be spot on with the previous HJC before the helmet broke. I do think PinLock has lowered in quality, several people have had imperfections stopping the bead from sealing, I wonder if that is what my HJC issue is. I rode without one as well the other month, you do get a better FOV without them too as they can interfere with how wide you can see a little.

[@CalmBiker]

I really should give airsoft a try! I have pretty much given up adjusting the pinlock now. At the moment it mists from the edges and one of the pins has broken, so had to be glued. I'm not sure I'll bother trying much more at this point.

[@HippoDrones]

@CalmBiker yeah, if you've had to glue a pin, not much you can do now

[@CalmBiker]

@@HippoDrones If I thought I could fix it I'd take it out a replace the pins but I've tried so many adjustments and been disappointed every time😀

[@HippoDrones]

@@CalmBiker 😞

[@Tojj29]

My Shoei GT Air 2 was brilliant last year when I bought it. Not so good these days. All of the seal is still good, and can't see any gaps🤷‍♂🤷‍♂ I bought one of tinted Chinese visors for summer riding, that came with a "pinlock type" insert, that's absolutely crap in the rain, steams up almost immediately. I imagine it's the same as most everything these days, gone up in price but not quality

[@CalmBiker]

Unfortunately that does seem to be the modern way!

[@fuglbird]

You did not specify how you adjusted the pin lock. You know that the two pins that holds the Pinlock in place are eccentric? When you turn them you adjust the pressure on the Pinlock lens. If you get too little pressure the entire lens will fog. If you get too much pressure the lens will fog in the center.

[@CalmBiker]

Those are how I've been adjusting. Interestingly with my latest adjustment it fogs at the ends of the pinlock first. Unfortunately one of the pins has now failed. I guess too much adjusting!

[@bigjohn7609]

I've never got on with pinlocks, so never use them

[@CalmBiker]

I used to find them brilliant but not so much in the last two helmets.