Calvinism as the continuing driver of American culture: Charles Coulombe

How has Calvinism influenced America? The protestant work ethic, the prosperity gospel and double-predestination are just some of the things that have made America what it is today.
The clip was taken from a talk with a sedevacantist a few years ago.
Fair use for this clip is intended for the education of the American people and for the promotion of the Catholic faith and the reign of Christ the King

[@hopelessstrlstfan181]

Food for thought. I worked in several museums dedicated to the Puritan era of American Colonial history. I read extensively in Puritan studies including primary sources. I really didn't find this idea of Puritan work ethic to hold up. It was Max Webber who popularized this notion. Among the Puritans in New England they would look for signs of their own predestination in a charge of heart like a born-again experience. They would keep spiritual journals in which they would agonize over evidence of good works which relfected their having been saved. Of course, it was a bit of a vicious cycle because they felt they were saved by grace alone and works didn't contribute to their salvation, etc. What I didn't find was the idea that they had to earn money and see God's blessing in accumlation of material wealth. I began to doubt the truth of this notion. Of course, I agree they had a unique work ethic and that it is instilled in our culture. Or at least was until the recent past.

[@hopelessstrlstfan181]

@Maximillian Wylde , well, thanks. I am not certain I agree with you entirely. Especially, since the selection of writings I am aware of the 17th Century Puritans themselves disagree with some of your positions. Also, I would recommend you consider reviewing the Book "Salem Possesed" (don't be turned off by the title which admittedly does sound a bit sensationalist) where the authors document that the Puritans in the Mass Bay Colony were highly suspicious of the rising merchant class with the result of their being much more likely to be accused of witchcraft. Why so? Well, because being pre-occupied with creating wealth and material comforts seemed to the Puritan community at large to be more evidence of not being saved rather than the contrary as alleged by Max Weber. Any way, I will have to spend more time weighing your presentation. You made many good points.

[@hopelessstrlstfan181]

@Maximillian Wylde all good points. I agree we have to allow general patterns of human behavior to factor into the equation and (for various reasons

[@hopelessstrlstfan181]

@Maximillian Wylde , OK. I will be honest here and point out that the genre of spiritual journals is one where you would expect to find a correlation between written record and actual individual belief. Again, the evidence or sign of Election found in those journals was moral actions, that is evidence of Sanctification and NOT accumulated wealth. Granted, we can always claim that the writers were unaware of their own true opinion or that they only wrote down orthodox belief. I personally doubt that. But, let's accept what you wrote in your reply as a valid premise. That might explain why we can't use spiritual journals or Church testamonies as counter evidence; however, that provides no positive evidence which supports the hypothesis. What positive evidence can you point to that supports Webber's hypothesis that the Capitalist Revolution was instigated among members of Calvinist communities because the accumulation of wealth was motivated by a desire to provide evidence of Predestination of Election. I am all ears.

[@hopelessstrlstfan181]

@Maximillian Wylde , OK. I will continue to maintain that Webber's hypothesis has a certain sense to it and remains unproven and that some evidence which counters the hypothesis exists. Thanks for your feedback. You made some good points. I recommend a You Tube video by the Jewish Convert formerly known as Rosilynn Moss who is now a nun. It was a talk she gave about how Reformed Theology results in the sort of anti-High Culture type of Civilization we have had in the US for generations. I believe you referenced that aspect of America's legacy due to it's partially Calvinist origins. I tend to want to preserve all that has been good about traditional American culture during the present left wing cultural repression thru cancel culture and other means. Nonetheless, it's good to be honest about the flaws within our traditions. I think the talk was entitled Protestantism's Barren Harvest or something like that. If I have time I will post a reply with the link.

[@errorsofmodernism9715]

@Maximillian Wylde good points

[@KenDelloSandro7565]

I wish that you would post the entire talk.

[@joboww]

maybe one day, I just wanted to focus on Calvinism for the video

[@KenDelloSandro7565]

Ok thanks

[@TheRichmondRoadie]

Serious insight.

[@pedrocavalcante5822]

What is the relationship between Calvinism in America and racism against blacks?

[@manlyburns5772]

well the catholic church had slaves also, slavery was just the norm back then, and people generally dont like anything thats not like them

[@HamPilgrimBL]

It's not so much that there's no money in the arts (quite the contrary when you look at the wealth of Hollywood and famous musicians), but rather that Calvin insisted "icons are idolatry" and veneration of them is sin, which vastly reduces the demand for visual art. Murals for example are seen as a Spanish/Mexican Catholic thing and not American.

[@edwardkarlson8192]

How can anyone explain the prosperity sign of being among the elect when some of the world's most devout and persecuted Christians are not prospering but are suffering?

[@kenetrice]

They simply believe that if they aren't prospering, no matter how devout of a Christian they are, they are not one of the predestined, "elect" few that God has/will grant salvation. It is one of the craziest notions I've ever heard.

[@errorsofmodernism9715]

@@kenetrice they would have secret un repented sin

[@bradyspace]

La Rouche Institute would have some pause about certain points. Work ethic being in opposition of imperialism. Wealth/abundance being in opposition of scarcity. Calvanism was one of many ideas floating around at the time of our founding.

[@joboww]

The La rouche institute is welcome to disagree

[@edwardkarlson8192]

The solution to the question of free will and predestination is reconciled simply as this: We have a free will and God knows what we are going to do with it. That's the basis of predestination and how it reconciles with free will. I won't believe that can be made simpler until I see it. Meanwhile, never argue with a Calvinist. He can argue anything and it's a waste of time and effort.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@Max Wylde That is the best explanation I have ever found. Mate I love you (But not in a gay way or anything ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWnTe3V5eNeNopo ).)!

[@cynthiaj.bc98]

Is there any sources I can read to learn more about how has Calvinism influenced America?

[@joboww]

Hi, I would recommend "Puritans Empire" by Charles Coulombe. Have a great day, if you are still looking for more do let me know

[@cynthiaj.bc98]

Thank you. I need it since I'm doing a research paper about Calvinism's effects on American/Western culture.

[@joboww]

no problem glad to help

[@joboww]

I have put up another talk on Calvinism and America at the following link kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6W0c3mtqNV0qNU

[@bobbybobby3232]

Read Marx Weber.

[@floridaman318]

07:45 bruh why did you jinx us?? 💀💀

[@edwardkarlson8192]

Did I hear him say the "Puritan orgasm" just before 54 seconds? If he did, it's a great gag. We're really on to something here. I have Max Weber's 'The Protestant Ethic and the "Spirit" of Capitalism' - and Other Writings'. And I have a bunch of other stuff. Yes, this dominates the American theme with a false attachment of Calvinist-Protestant ethic to the American illusion of being founded in God's ratification of the 18th century philosophical abstractions. We're going nowhere but down until we tear ourselves free of our presumptions upon God and the bonding of our brand of Christianity to its world-based dogma.

[@williamtolsma7988]

He said "Puritan Work Ethic".

[@dioscoros]

Lol how did you get "orgasm" from "work ethic"?