Calvinism Vs Arminianism - Which One Is Right?

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In This Episode [024] - Atonement - Calvinism Vs Arminianism - Are either of these positions totally correct?
Dr. Chip Bennett is continuing his teaching of the college-level Systematic Theology 1 Class about understanding God, Creation, and Salvation.
Episodes will be released weekly and all resources will be posted in the description below each video.
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[@ClarifyingChrist]

Hey Chip! Great video brother. This is an issue I have been struggling to answer biblically because there is so much depth and biblical points for both sides. I appreciate the way you addressed it. I listened while working out, but I'm going to rewatch later so I can add a few discussion points to my notes on this topic. Thanks for the video, Dr. Bennett

[@azorlepcha1194]

thank you for your videos, i don't comment but i regularly watch these.I don't necessarily agree with everything but it really helps me learn more i hope the LORD uses this channel / ministry more :)

[@brucemeyer6105]

Thanks for your open discussion and explanation.

[@AdrianM..]

Awesome, thank you for your work and explanations. God bless you! 😇

[@Zumbamom]

Still not sure 🤔 about all of this. Can’t wait for the next one

[@johnblatzheim3011]

To do the work of the Father is to believe on the Son, the work of the Son is to love one another as Her loved us, so the Father gives to the Son all those who believe on Him therefore the elect are those who believe on the Son and accept Him as their Lord and savior. All grace all free all done by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all I do is receive it, I didn’t but it, wrap it or offer it I just said “thank you” (praise).

[@ErikArchbold]

So helpful, thank you!!!

[@achristian11]

Calvinism: God sends people to hell Bible: people send themselves to hell

[@xav9ier]

Could you provide where in the Bible it says people send themselves to hell? Hell is punishment. Sin is the crime. People don't choose the punishment. In God's court of justice he is the judge who will sentence people for their sins by sending them to "jail." That’s why the gospel is good news. Christ has paid our penalty for sin in full for those who believe in his name. We are delivered from the wrath of God because Christ satisfied the wrath of God on the cross for us.

[@achristian11]

@@xav9ier the point is understood by people with common sense. If you sin, you’re sending yourself to hell and if you deny Him then you, again, are sending yourself to hell. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done

[@xav9ier]

@@achristian11 "who" is judging them is the point that should be understood from the scripture you quoted. The judge sends the guilty to hell. That is the biblical position.

[@achristian11]

@@xav9ier God sends them to hell bc they sinned. So they are sending themselves there. why are you playing word games? is it to just to justify your Calvinism? calvinism blames God and says that He sends them to hell not because they sinned but because He predestined them to hell, they can't do anything about it. That's not Biblical no matter what any calvinist has told you. read Revelation chapter 20

[@johnpierson4696]

The key to "coming" is repentance. Those who repent and believe in Christ's finished work on the cross will be saved. Christ's atonement is sufficient for all but effectual for the elect. I think the sticking point becomes our ability to recognize our need of a savior. That is one of the roles of the Holy Spirit. {Convict, Convince, Draw) Our only part is to respond. Yes or No. The faith required to believe has to be given to us through the Holy Spirit. (The "scales" of our spiritual blindness have to be removed. Only God can accomplish this miracle.) God bless this discussion to bring unity not division in the body.

[@drewsaal3216]

I’m always surprised by the teaching that John 17 supports Calvinism, where in verse 9 Jesus prays for those God have to him, but it’s almost often neglected that in verse 20, Jesus said he prayed not only for those people (that God gave him) but also all who believe their words. This second group of people are not given to Jesus. What even Chip fails to realize is that every time people are said to be given to Jesus from the father in John, it’s referring to true-believing Jews whose faith is being transferred from being on God the father to Jesus the son. All living, true believers of God prior to the new covenant needed to be changed over the one who made a new covenant. Until Jesus sent the church to the nations, his ministry was to collect true-followers of Yahweh who were given to him, and the church became open to everyone when he gave the church the authority to reach the nations (Great Commission). The great news is that the church, whom Jesus died for, is wide open for anyone who wants to join.

[@ravissary79]

Exactly. His prayer in John 17 covers everyone. First those the father gave him... that's his followers, not us. Then he prays for those who believe in them... That's US, we're second hand believers. Then he prays that through our unity the world will know that the Father sent him, here he's talking about a potentially global awareness that Jesus is the messiah. The English uses the conditional "might" here, which is implied but not directly stated in the Greek... in that he's praying for a result that CAN bless everyone, but unlike the two first parties, its not saying necessarily they WILL, else they'd technically be in the second party as a given. But regardless, every possible category of person is included in this prayer, it's in no sense excluding anyone by the end, and it's an abuse of scripture to take it out of context and imply Jesus never prays for anyone but those who the Father gave him, and imply this is a conceptual foundation for all salvific election, and conversely reprobation.

[@xav9ier]

"These only" referring to the disciples. "For those who will believe in me through THEIR word." Context is always key. Historical context, immediate context, redemptive context, etc. In verse 20 the immediate context is that "these" are the disciples and "their word" would be effectual for those who the Father gave Him. So no, verse 20 is not neglected.

[@ravissary79]

@@xav9ier those who believe through THEIR word is us, all of the post-Apostles church. And "that the world may know" is a conditional additional blessing for a third pwrty that's neither those the father gave him (Apostles) nor those who believe in their testimony (the church), but follows the Johanine vocabulary of the worldly humanity, citizens of the world system under occupation of the enemy. So every category of people is covered by the prayer, but in us immediate and specific, the other is future inclusive but distinct, and the third is inclusive if all others, but are only blessed conditionally.

[@xav9ier]

@@ravissary79 there's a lot to unpack here that I believe you're conflating in your statements. But if I'm understanding you correctly, are you suggesting there's are part of the church who come to believe in Christ that are not given to the Son by the Father? Is that's true then what do you with John 6:44 & 6:65 where it says "No one can"? I'm not how you got to the conclusion that the church is composed of two classes. Makes no sense unless the God you believe in is NOT sovereign.

[@ravissary79]

@@xav9ier no I'm not saying that people come come the Son without without fathers permission, that's absurd. But context is king, and at the time of John 6, and later, John 17, those who the Father gave him were the disciples, but if you weren't in this group it didn't mean you're reprobate, because the entire future church is set aside as a separate group in John 17, also being prayed for. Indeed being in that first group doesn't even guarantee salvation because Jesus says he has kept all... save one the son of perdition. So those who aren't in that group are saved later, and one who us in that group now, at that time, won't be retained later. The focus is not on some atemporal irrevocable election to salvation. Salvation is in view, but writ large, the plan of salvation itself is being fulfilled in history shortly after he's saying these words. The people being saved grows, and the effect these people have on he world is part of the plan. But it's not a mystery as to why the Fatger gives people to Jesus... They're people who belong to the Father. Ones who have learned and listened to God through the law and prophets. God "knows" these people and they know him. Even Corneius already feared God. But there are those who didn't, but came to, like the Jailer, Nineveh, etc.

[@mIKOTOBA7]

Calvinism is God responsible for the unsaved, but Alluminism God is not responsible for the unsaved.

[@spiritandtruth4716]

The biblical evidence is overwhelming for one particular side of this debate.

[@28isaac28]

I know Dr Chip Bennett said a disclaimer in the beginning that he's going to try to be in the middle, but his tone and line of thoughts seems to me that he subscribes to Calvinism.

[@28isaac28]

@@HaroldZwingley 1. there's 2 people that agreed with my comment so, im not exactly out to lunch with my observation. 2. it is in fact my simple observation. i was here because i wanted to learn. i could be wrong and that's fine. your comment seems to imply that i have a problem with a person who created a video 2 years ago for being a calvanist. 3. he talked about calvinism longer. he spent talking about arminianism for 5 minutes (5:10 - 10:15) and the rest is all calvinism. just based on the numbers, i dont need to be a arminianist to say what i said a year ago. 4. you dont know if i didnt watch the rest of his series before commenting here. ironically, it's watching some of his other videos that made me come back here and post my observation. but hey, let me jump to conclusions, right 5. with the way you wrote your comment seems to me that you're a calvanist yourself. in that case, your tone is the reason why Dr. James White is sick of the calvinist club. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r32adKWJjMSVias

[@anthonywhitney634]

It would be more helpful and accurate if this was titled 'Calvinism vs Everything else'.

[@tonn333]

Neither isn't biblical. Determinism isn't biblical.

[@rainierpresley3086]

Still not clear how you present both sides...very cautious not to offend either side

[@Mike-qt7jp]

Here is absolute BIBLICAL proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."

[@anthonywhitney634]

Wow, the theological hoops Calvinists jump through... Yeah, you spend some time in John 17 and it explain who 'they' are, "I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me. I am praying for them." Who is he praying for? Those that have believed that God sent Jesus. And it then says "but also for those who will believe in me through their word. This is hardly a chapter that supports Calvinism.

[@ravissary79]

The use of John 17 to support limited atonement is really problematic. If I'm praying and I say "god bless my brother bob... not my brother Robert whose occasional nickname is Bob, but the one whose birth name is bob... he's the one who has cancer, please be with him." Do I therfore mean that Robert is someone I never pray for, and don't want him to be saved, loved, healed or favored? No, that's a logical fallacy. Just keep reading the chapter. Jesus prays for: those you gave me (not the world). THEN Jesus prays for "those who believe on their testimony" (meaning not the first group, but those who are given to Jesus then speak of Jesus and they come to faith in Jesus by second hand testimony) that's us! We're not the just group but the second. THEN Jesus prays that the second group be ONE, "so that the world will know that you sent me". Wait u thought he didn't prat for the world, but here he specifically prays that the world should know he was sent by the father... that he's the messiah... that's what faith in Jesus IS. He literally prays for every single category of human on earth in that prayer. His disciples (Those the Father gave him), those who believe their testimony (us)... and the world. The wicked evil world.

[@rockandsandapologetics7254]

Jesus took all sin on Himself on the cross, so that whoever would reach out and accept Him as Lord and Savior would ge a child of God. To those who receive Jesus, they receive the righteousness of Jesus. You keep going back to "if Jesus died for ALL then why do people still live in sin?" I would ask you, before the Lamb of God offered Himself up for us on the cross, the priests offered up sacrifices for the people. If the people went their way and sinned was that sacrifice of any value to them? The point is, that just because Jesus, not only died for all, but took on Him the sins of all, it is of no benefit to those who want to live their lives their own way, instead of excepting this gift of mercy from God.

[@dougsmith6346]

not Arminianism

[@Turn.toJesus]

Chip sounds like a closet-Calvinist

[@blockpartyvintage1568]

Protestant dialectics lol