Calvinistic Predestination

Dr. Leighton Flowers answers the question, "Is Determinism required if God is truly Omniscient?"
Is the Calvinistic view of exhaustive Predestination (determinism) necessary due to God's omniscience? Let's explore...
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[@thelionsshare6668]

I wonder how many people have cursed God because they thought these beliefs represented Him.

[@Emper0rH0rde]

Two of my sisters have rejected the gospel completely. Another of my sisters is leaning toward this, but I believe she can be reached. As for myself, I think it's a miracle I didn't end up like Derek Webb. If I had to guess, I'd say these teachings drive a *lot* of people away.

[@zachm.6572]

The problem is is that this is a sign to those that hold these beliefs that it is correct.

[@alexanderangelo7284]

Too many!

[@thelionsshare6668]

@@OneTouchShort That's for sure. But thinking can lead to the other. My gosh, this was two years ago. I'm in a Facebook group that's a rough-and-tumble debate about things like determinism. I'm very much on the free-will side. My two questions are usually "can you act as if you don't have free will?" and "does God have free will?"

[@beckyyoussef2669]

And this is the true fruit of Calvinism - splitting churches and driving people away from "God"

[@lineinthesandministries7873]

Wow! Amazing! That 1 Samuel 23:9-14 blew me away. Follower for life Dr. Flowers. 👍 Thank you so much

[@DamonNomad82]

13:30 is the perfect "Heads I win, tails you lose" rebuttal to Calvinism! This video, only 14 minutes and 32 seconds in length, destroys its false doctrine beyond repair. Well done!

[@loavesandfish]

“ They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind“ Jeremiah 19:5 Whoa.

[@allentomas3417]

just like you birds(possessed maniacs), and then blame God for doing this heinous insidiousness.

[@allentomas3417]

@@rolysantos sure, like a cinderella grosple

[@allentomas3417]

@@rolysantos it means, that you dream in fantasies

[@loavesandfish]

rolysantos I didn’t intend to imply that God wasn’t aware that the described evil exists. It means he was not the source of if.

[@jaygee2187]

rolysantos define ‘ordain’.

[@Ransomonious]

We're co-writers of our own scripts with God's permission. God sets the boundaries, and we act within them. I'm not free to determine the constraints of his will, but I am free to act within them. As a teacher, I assign projects to my students. They're not free to choose these projects. I predetermined what projects would match the overall curriculum, but they are free to do those assignments however they will. If they ask for help, I'm happy to help them. If they refuse to do the project and choose to trash it, I warn, but do not do the assignment for them.

[@garretmount8409]

I’m so glad I found your channel, almost got sucked into Calvinism but the Holy Spirit protected me from it. It reminds me of a cult, like a boys club mentality. So glad I found your material 🙏

[@truth7416]

It is a Cult! God has blessed and protected you. Happy for you. Yes ask John Piper what he meant by saying this? Direct quote "God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . ." I say John Pipers god is a monster created by John Calvin and the Deformed Theology he crafted!! My God the only true God is the opposite. 1 Timothy 2 : 3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Acts 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”… Acts 2:37-39 Three Thousand Believe 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off- Don't listen to this Heretic! TRUTH IN LOVE

[@mrnoedahl]

Yes sir. It is too much like a cult. It has its own leader that it is named after. It has its own book that enlightens its followers to the correct interpretation of scripture.

[@michaeltorah4002]

@@mrnoedahl sorry but Calvinist doctrine is just the nick name of biblical truth

[@mrnoedahl]

@@michaeltorah4002 Calvinist follow John Calvin; Christians follow Christ. It’s very simple; but too simple for the intellectual.

[@michaeltorah4002]

@@mrnoedahl no, Calvinist follow Christ. Calvinist is just a doctrine taught in scripture. It's a teaching that recognizes God's absolute power.

[@qcbtbx]

This is perhaps one of the most glaring philosophical issues with Calvinism.

[@allentomas3417]

they is for Lucifer, the fallen one, sure

[@justice3043]

Indeed the issue with Calvinism is philosophical. I think the Wesley, Armenian, Methodist notion of free will feels better. The thing is I think the Calvinists have it with sheer volume of text.

[@qcbtbx]

@@justice3043 indeed.

[@allentomas3417]

@@qcbtbx dummbbie

[@allentomas3417]

@@justice3043 what text, you silly

[@jimmiprakash3806]

Blessed by your videos.😇

[@oldman6914]

This is the single best debunking of Calvinism I have heard yet.

[@felixwalne3494]

You are doing an invaluable job for the body! God bless you

[@horatiobottomley]

So, by John Piper's logic, It went down like this in Eden: Adam (the wife made me do it) and Eve (the serpent made me do it) were both wrong, because actually God made them do it. And being wholly just and loving, he then punishes them and all their offspring for the inescapable outcome of his own sovereign decree. As a grotesque caricature of our heavenly father, that's almost as bad as saying he irrevocably predestines a large percentage of humanity to Hell - an act of unimaginable cruelty. But of course, I'm forgetting that - during their brief lives (and before their torment starts) - they will experience 'common grace'...they may enjoy those essentials which will stave off their grim eternity for a number of years. They might spend forever wishing they'd never been born, but perhaps they can console themselves with those memories of soft, refreshing rain. Yet maybe Calvinists are right about something: After all, who would have dealings with a God like that, unless irresistibly forced to do so?

[@enonknives5449]

Exactly right. If Calvinism were true, then being disobedient to God is actually impossible, because we can only do what He foreordained. Does the god of Calvinism decree things that he doesn't want to happen? Wouldn't that god be insane?

[@allentomas3417]

@@enonknives5449: now, take the knife out your brain, and respond accordingly, as per his dissertation warrants: Here, i will show you while you recover yourself, a dab: Not to think at all, is extremely superior to allowing your conscience to be sold to MOLECH, of Baal GORE!!! You are clearly asylum material. Conscience detached from the brain, hence, "seared". Literally this is an attempt to add credence to the heretical teaching that God Almighty is going to torture the vast majority of all humanity who has ever lived by burning their flesh with real fire in a hellhole of insane pain for all eternity- such an absurd and evil teaching. Think long and hard if you can even allow logic to penetrate there somewhere, somehow. Then, and only then, let me know if you care to up-grade to the true God. Until then, the MOLECH god worship shall always infect you fully! You are believing the lie. How many others is the question from this point forth! You will not believe sound doctrine if it just fell on ya!! This is idolatry, spiritualism, blasphemous, and furthermore "YOU all have chosen a false God!" Heeding devil spirits of worshiping Jesus; and you as much as carry this heresy to the extreme, by actually making and professing him as God himself. Attributing evil to God AND Jesus Christ. Burning souls(they are never immortal) extremely and eternally. Confessing that the dead are alive, rather than fully unconscious. Denying the great and ONLY hope for the believers. Heeding assorted doctrines of men, which blind you of the doctrine of the only true God. Deny the operation of the gift of holy spirit; replacing this with human emotion and feelings, and attributing this possession to God. Diminish free will or disregard it fully. Earnestly expecting God to control you! NEVER! but the adversary will possess you in a heartbeat, if you open yourself up to the offer of it. The devil is seriously in the business of blinding, in order to trick and possess. The current mainstream belief of Hell is what I believe is the one doctrine, that single-handedly is responsible for making more atheists and unbelievers than any other teaching in the Church. It drives more people away from Christ than any other issue, and I don’t blame them. The concept of a vengeful God punishing the bad for eternity not only contradicts common sense, it contradicts the very Word of God. It’s the concept of an underworld where bad people go to when they die, and that they’ll burn forever and ever, which is not only cruel but outright insidious. No wonder most smart and thinking people refuse to accept this ideology. They figure if the church is out to lunch on this issue, they could be wrong in the rest of it.

[@horatiobottomley]

@@mojo7495 A little more care in reading the post - before replying - might have been helpful here. I didn't say it was unimaginably cruel that more will be lost than saved. What I said was, that it is worse than a grotesque caricature of our heavenly father to say that he would IRREVOCABLY PREDESTINE a large percentage of humanity to Hell. That would be unimaginably cruel. The point was about WHY they would go to Hell, not how many would go. Hope that helps.

[@knightfilms4082]

Honestly, John Piper has the most twisted theology and explanations with the most abominable Calvinistic twist I ever hear whenever he does sermons. I have given up with this agenda because it’s pointless dealing with blind and deaf people possessed with an ideological possession of Calvinists; it’s unchanging. The system itself predestined them to be possessed by itself and they can’t see it. I’m just disgusted by the system and feel sorry for the people.

[@knightfilms4082]

horatiobottomley Don’t worry bro! That guy doesn’t understand that majority of people can choose to reject God. Just look at the world we live in; it’s a total disaster. You don’t have to drive out on the road for 5 minutes and already people cursing each other and doing terrible things. Just read the news and statistics and do the numbers; you’ll realize how crazy the minority of Christian people are alive compared to the world. Now we know there’s about 7+ billion in the world and about 56,000,000 each year pass away in the whole world. The birth rate is still above the death rate so it’s quite impossible to count the “total number” of people ever lived, but you can see how MUCH people have ever lived and it’s like the sands of the sea indeed. However most of them unfortunately don’t accept God because they don’t want Him and then it’s too late. Nothing to do with predestination; it’s terrible life choices. A lot of drug abusers, drunkards, criminals and the list goes on long. Christians are exceedingly rare and small compared to the fullness of the ENTIRE population. That’s exactly what Jesus was talking about. He wasn’t saying that “if you go to church, many are going to hell who are there and few are chosen.” God already has drawn everyone to Himself but so many reject Him everyday. It’s the same story of prodigal son; except in real world, many never return to the father who’s eagerly waiting to save his lost child from the world. Calvinist has no place in scripture and in the love of God; it’s the opposite. Calvinism makes God look like a Self-Evil monster Dictator. Complete utter abomination of His nature. My God is gracious and righteous, He is Holy and is Merciful, He is Sovereign and let’s people make a choice about Him freely, He provides His word to humanity so that people can seek after Him and know Him and be saved. Our way of salvation is only through His grace in what He has done through Jesus Christ through our faith that we place in Him. It’s not HIS FAITH, it’s our faith. The “moment we believe” faith is birthed and we are born again. We are NOT born again into faith as Calvinism teaches; for they teach “Regeneration Precedes Faith” which is FALSE. God only ACTS when people Act with Faith NOT BEFORE. No one who has been born again has been regenerated prior to their belief, but right after.

[@utubewillis24]

This is so good. Thanks for your channel. One of the reasons I came out of calvinism was hearing Michael heiser speak about the 1 Samuel passage you mentioned. In that passage God foreknows 2 events that never happen! Foreknowledge does not necessitate predestination

[@bobfree1226]

Great Leighton its all in there.

[@mayorrodgers7446]

I’ve been studying this material from over 30 years. You’ve done a fine job here.

[@bro_daniel]

The 1 Samuel 23 passage as described supports an open view of the future.

[@justgopherit3454]

"Love" was what turned me away from Calvinism, for there can be no love for God without choice. And it is obvious that love is God's greatest commandment, toward Him and toward others, so to believe in Calvinism is to completely void those commandments.

[@justgopherit3454]

@@dylanwagoner9768 I'm glad you don't think so, but I would be more interested in how you believe it's possible to have coerced love?

[@justgopherit3454]

@@dylanwagoner9768 I understand that Calvinist's know they are commanded to love God, I was one for several years. But that has nothing to do with what I said. What you're missing is that "coerced" love is not love. The "I" of Tulip is "irresistible", so the love you have for God is not only given to you by him, it is irresistible, so you can not deny that love. And that is not "love".

[@justgopherit3454]

@@dylanwagoner9768 actually it is what it teaches, because before the change you did not want it "total depravity"

[@justgopherit3454]

And no, I don't believe in Arminianism either or Palagian or semi-palagian, that's not what traditionalism teaches nor is it the only dichotomy.

[@justgopherit3454]

@@dylanwagoner9768 seems like we're at an impass cause I've read plenty, from the old to new, and I don't comprehend how you believe Leighton thinks that. And yes, it's all about His sovereignty, but we disagree when it comes to how He calls us. Shalom my friend

[@paulinerelph]

I began to read a John Piper book; it was so disturbingly wrong, I couldn't even bear to give it a place in the bookcase.

[@patrickknock1976]

I like these short explainer videos explaining the often mis-defined concepts of predestination, election, foreknowledge etc. Good stuff.

[@allentomas3417]

What does God predestinate though? This is most vital to understand, sure.

[@KISStheSON...]

@@allentomas3417 God predestinated WHERE we will go depending on WHERE we PUT our faith.

[@chrisamandadeysel5117]

@@KISStheSON... Yes,Romans 1 is a perfect passage telling us what happens to a person putting his faith in something other than Jesus.

[@KISStheSON...]

@@chrisamandadeysel5117 Someone who GETS it! 😊 Psalms 2:12 “Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”

[@Tylermichealmusic]

Thank you for this

[@pm5453]

I like your content! Greetings from Sweden :-)

[@willya6690]

The first time I started to look at this was when watching James White debating Dave Hunt. Honestly I was touched by the sincerity of Hunt. He just wouldn't see the limited atonement in Scriptures. I have to admit that I have a hard time trying to believe Calvinism. I could be wrong, but I'm honest before my Lord. It seems that a Calvinist cannot be sure of his own salvation. Though I love some Calvinist teachers like A W Pink, Mathew Henry and Edwards, and Paul Washer... but, there have been also a lot o great men who were not Calvinist like A W Tozer, Ravenhill, Jonh Wesley, etc. But I thank Soteriology 101 for posting all these videos. Let us be united in Christ with all our brothers and sister from all God's churches around the world.. Blessings

[@truth7416]

Yes ask John Piper what he meant by saying this? Direct quote "God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . ." I say John Pipers god is a monster created by John Calvin and the Deformed Theology he crafted!! My God the only true God is the opposite. 1 Timothy 2 : 3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Acts 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”… Acts 2:37-39 Three Thousand Believe 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off- Don't listen to this Heretic! TRUTH IN LOVE

[@odec1831]

Great video!

[@marcosbatista1029]

Good one ! God bless you pastor ! I will watch later !

[@jorgeolortegui-yume4301]

Great again! Blessings Leighton! keep up the good work!

[@Emper0rH0rde]

There were people whom God chose before the foundation of the world. He chose Mary, he chose Jacob, he chose Moses, he chose the apostles of Jesus Christ, he chose John the Baptist, he chose the prophets of the Old Testament. God did *not* pick and choose who would go to Heaven, and who would go to Hell, before the foundation of the world. *No God of love would do that.* And God is powerful enough that He can fulfill His promises *without* having to meticulously control and micromanage every choice every person makes. Our free will is a *demonstration* of God's power, not an affront to it.

[@truth7416]

Nicely put. God choose them for an honored service if they choose to follow it. Ask John Piper what he meant by saying this? Direct quote "God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . ." I say John Pipers god is a monster created by John Calvin and the Deformed Theology he crafted!! My God the only true God is the opposite. 1 Timothy 2 : 3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Acts 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”… Acts 2:37-39 Three Thousand Believe 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off- Don't listen to this Heretic! TRUTH IN LOVE

[@soundimpact4633]

Many are called but few are chosen

[@princeamoakwa4057]

In this light, I see all the biblical and logica flaws and dangers of the Calvinism taught by some of my beloved preachers. That 10:26 CS Lewis excerpt is all sorts of flames! Truth!

[@athb4hu]

Powerful stuff. Thanks again.

[@samuelborgesreal]

Grace and Peace my brother, I am Brazilian, and I read an article of yours translated to Portuguese and I liked it very much, I would like to watch your videos, but as I do not have full domination in English I would like to know if you have like you by Portuguese subtitles, if not possible I'll understand, big hug.

[@jcthomas3408]

Love it! Having read the Westminster Confession, my Calvinist friends need to read Jeremiah 19:5, which beautifully refutes the statement that God ordains all that comes to pass.

[@inchristalone4749]

-Ephesians 1:11 HAVING BEEN PREDESTINED according to His purpose WHO WORKS ALL THINGS things after the counsel of His will -Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases. -Isa 45:12 "It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands And I ORDAINED ALL THEIR HOST." What are you trying to point out in Jeremiah 19:5? Tanks...

[@jcthomas3408]

@@inchristalone4749 Jer 19:5 tells us that God does not decree everything that comes to pass. I agree God does what he pleases, but it has pleased him to give us free will. He created man, stretched out the heavens, and ordained their host (angels). And Eph 1 is telling us the blessings that those who are in Christ have. If you are in Christ you are guaranteed the destination he prepared ahead of time for those who believe. Verse 13 says "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." It is after we believe that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and have the guarantee of our inheritance.

[@jeffstevens3697]

It may be helpful to read Jeremiah 19:1-4 (especially verse 3). Who brings the evil? If you read the rest of the chapters in Jeremiah, you may see things differently. Not everyone who believes in the absolute sovereignty of God is a Calvinist.

[@jcthomas3408]

@@jeffstevens3697 Jer 19:3 "You shall say, ‘Hear the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I am bringing such disaster upon this place that the ears of everyone who hears of it will tingle." This verse is talking about judgement of God from their following false gods, but they chose to follow those false gods. Are you saying God caused evil? He would not judge someone for something He caused. His judgement is righteous, not unjust.

[@jeffstevens3697]

@@jcthomas3408 I think our perception of God is far too small. God is omniscient, omnipotent and eternal. Our past, present and future are HIS now. Evil is not a power - it cannot be caused. It is only a result of turning away from God. Evil is the absence of God. Or better stated, the attempt to flee from God. God is. Disaster "from" God is the result of mankind thinking he may go against God. God's love, mercy, grace and judgement are equal and are coexistent in God, who is unified. If I chose to run head first into a freight train - the result would be disaster. Did the train cause this disaster? No, in the sense that I chose to run into it and yes, in the sense that the train was doing what the train does. God is utter and perfect HOLINESS. He has chosen to create a realm of time and matter and put into it creatures that have the ability to seek Him out or to deny Him. Our running from Him results in a condition of evil because it is a rejection of him. But make no mistake; none of our rebellion has come as a surprise to God who knows all things. Can we say God caused all this? Every last atom from the beginning of time until the end and forever into the next age, for all eternity, will be under God's control. We were made to worship Him. Understanding how Almighty and Sovereign God is will take away the SELF that keeps fighting for His place.

[@timothybierl2746]

I know this is an old video, but it is a good one. Consider this, if God has decreed all things that come to pass, then there can be no fall, no human sin, because God has ordered it to be. No sin for anything humans do, because under the Calvinist thought, we cannot do anything that God does not cause.

[@clarkjasperlaysico8204]

Exactly. If that is the case. He can do better if we cant do anything that He hasn't cause

[@briward1654]

Under Calvinism Sovereignty comes to mean: “If I did it. God Willed it, Ordained it & Caused it, I was simply fulfilling the Sovereign will/decree of God, this would include every sin.” This makes God out to be the author of ALL evil. This profanes the Holy name of God...this system does NOT glorify God. It is a system that profanes God's Character. Everyone who is a Calvinist needs to repent of this hideous doctrine. God is NOT glorified by this Doctrine. James 1:13 - “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am tempted by God;’ for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.” 1Jn 1:5 "... God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all."

[@briward1654]

@@michaelmichael-ci8hi You might be interested to know what Calvinism's, John Calvin actually said: John Calvin himself taught: “Creatures are so governed by the secret counsel of God, that nothing happens but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 3) “thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5) “We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, -that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin,Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8) “The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11) “…it is very wicked merely to investigate the causes of God’s will. For his will is, and rightly ought to be, the cause of all things that are.”…”For God’s will is so much the highest rule of righteousness that whatever he wills, by the very fact that he wills it, must be considered righteous. When, therefore, one asks why God has so done, we must reply: because he has willed it. But if you proceed further to ask why he so willed, you are seeking something greater and higher than God’s will, which cannot be found.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1) “Many professing a desire to defend the Deity from an individual charge admit the doctrine of election, but deny that any one is reprobated. This they do ignorantly and childishly, since there could be no election without its opposite, reprobation.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1) “…it is utterly inconsistent to transfer the preparation for destruction to anything but God’s secret plan… God’s secret plan is the cause of hardening.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 2, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1) “I admit that in this miserable condition wherein men are now bound, all of Adam’s children have fallen by God’s will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 4) “With Augustine I say: the Lord has created those whom he unquestionably foreknew would go to destruction. This has happened because he has willed.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 5) “…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin,Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6) “…it is vain to debate about prescience, which it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6) “But since he foresees future events only by reason of the fact that he decreed that they take place, they vainly raise a quarrel over foreknowledge, when it is clear that all things take place rather by his determination and bidding.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6) “Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam’s fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently foreknew because he so ordained by his decree. And it ought not to seem absurd for me to say that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his descendants, but also meted it out in accordance with his own decision.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 7) “The first man fell because the Lord deemed it meet that he should.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 8) “Even though by God’s eternal providence man has been created to undergo that calamity to which he is subject, it still takes its occasion from man himself, not from God, since the only reason for his ruin is that he has degenerated from God’s pure creation into vicious and impure perversity.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 9)

[@Justin-zv4cm]

One of my biggest hangups on Calvinism is that if their interpretation is correct, then that totally negates the idea of sin. It makes no sense. Yes, God knows the beginning from the end. That goes without saying. But what would be the point of Him creating us, giving us consciousness, and then determining everything for us and only giving us the illusion of free will? It just doesn't add up. Also, God wants us to do thing because we WANT to, not because we HAVE to. I couldn't agree more with what C.S. Lewis said.

[@pixieburton3131]

It’s an excuse not to accept responsibility for one’s actions.

[@justice3043]

What you meant for evil God meant for good Genesis 50:20. And in Isaiah 43:13 " from eternity to Eternity I am God no one can snatch anyone out of my hand no one can undo what I have done" sounds like tomorrow already happened. Or the Psalms 135:6 " whatever the Lord pleases he does in the seas and on the earth and in the Deep places"

[@jeffreybailey2442]

Predestination can only be understood when looking back (past) when the assertion about it is made from the present moment. Predestination has nothing to say about the future, only free will (John 3:16) can say anything meaningful since the verb tense of "believeth" is present and future tense. Note: the distinction between both predestination and free will come from assertions that occur from the present moment. This whole business makes sense when we understand how language is used.

[@justice3043]

@@jeffreybailey2442 I don't disagree that humans have free will but I think if you're going to talk about free will you should stick to the passages that implicate Free Will as the culprit for belief or lack thereof Joshua 24 comes to mind maybe versus 15 to 30 or something there's a bunch of others you may know what they are I don't have the memorized but I have examined the text and there are plenty mostly in the Old Testament but some of the new but when you've got to make a hundred videos that tell somebody that the text seems to read one way but it really means something else and if you look at it just right when the winds blowing from the East and the temperature is exactly 72 degrees then to me I would just avoid those texts. If you have to DeCalvinize a massive amount of text in order 2 state your position of autonomous free moral agency you're swimming Upstream think about it from a legal perspective if you're defending a position and to do so you've decided 2 explain why a massive amount of text doesn't seem to mean how it seems to read don't you think that's going to defend, unintentionally of course, the other person's position I mean how many true five-point calvinist are really out there? Free will that is of course autonomous free will feels better to the masses. People like to think they're in control so why not make tons of videos that explained where the Bible very clearly shows free moral agency at work when you make a Million videos DeCalvinizing versus for people that, as you put it, don't really know how language works and need you to explain what their Bible is really saying well I don't know doesn't seem like the right way to go. just saying I was leaning to reformed theology based on my personal experience and then watching all of light and flowers videos really nice to me all the way over to Five Points. he pulled out tons of verses that I never would have even looked at or thought of but then when he pointed him out and I tried to look at them the way he wanted it wasn't as easy as to understand the verses as they plainly read.

[@justice3043]

Sorry about that the text came out terrible I was using talk text and it got all screwed up

[@jeffreybailey2442]

@@justice3043Here's a way to square predestination and free will because both are true at the same time. The only difference is the direction of travel of the assertion being made....past (predestination) or future (free will), where the assertion about either is given at the present moment. Note: YOU/WE Learned this in grade school...tense matters. Ok, here is the example: Three people are in a room. Two are Christians, one is not. Christian 1 reads Romans 8:28-30 aloud. Christian 1 and 2 agree, nonChristian doesn't understand and probably doesn't care. Fast forward one week and the same three are back together, but this time the nonChristian from last week has some good news. He tells Christian 1 and 2 that he found Christ, asked Christ to forgive him of his sins, asked Christ into his heart and placed his faith in Christ. Christian 1 again reads Romans 8:28-30 and all three, Christian 1, 2 and now 3, agree. The end. So what happened here. One week before Christian 3 was a nonbeliever and Christan 1 and 2 were predestined and elect. Your/Our fourth grade teacher can help us here, because the words predestined and elect refer to the past. Of course everything that has happened in the past has made you what you are in the PRESENT, but your future is not the past and predestination cannot answer questions about the future....remember Christian 3. He had free will to decide his future and he chose rightly. So, in the second meeting with Christian 1 and 2 he was able to claim Roman's 8: 28-30 as true, because looking back over the past, specifically the past week, he was predestined through the lens of the present. John 3:16 is all about present and future tense of the word believe, and Romans 8:28-30 and other passages about predestination and election have already occurred and thus refer to the past. Both are absolutely true, look to the past, I was predestined, but tomorrow I have free will. Both are stated from the present moment. Get it. NOTE: There is a case where predestination will take the superior position and free wil not.....the end of time. So, what this proposes is that God knows all possible futures regardless of what choices you make and we learn that God is even greater than the God that Calvinist put into a box where only one future is possible. This puts man even lesser of a status than we previously thought, because God's will doesn't depend on man's choices. This view eliminates any contradictions that man has imposed on God's word about this topic and puts a lot of theologians out business. The bottom line is that modern people have lost the ability to use and understand language effectively. The ancients understood well how words and verb tense made the truth values of an assertion true or false. But then again they didn't have as many distractions as we do today.

[@jeffreybailey2442]

@@justice3043 before discounting the argument I proposed, whether the premises or the conclusion, read through those passages that deal with topic and apply the approach I proposed in my second rather lengthy reply. If you disagree, with any, please let me know where or with what you disagree with. I am not above criticism and may find that I need to articulate my position more clearly. Thanks in advance.

[@PhilGeissler]

The C.S Lewis clip is gold!!

[@stilliving]

Waiting for the "Who are you O man..??" jokes

[@jilltilghman3027]

If as a parent you had the ability to create a robot for your child that everything in his or her life was programmed by you including you as a parent would also choose if your child loved you or did not or did horrific evil or was made to do good and evil or you had a choice to have a child that had free will to choose to love you or not and the free will child chose to live you because you cared for him or her and loved you because of who you were...what kind of a child would you choose to have? Would you make a programmed robot child made to love you or choose to have a child with free will? And would the free child that loved you bring you glory or the child you programmed to make you love you? Which child would bring you glory? Which one is false, fake love and which child truely loves. And, you as the creator of your child.......which child would give you joy and a sense of purpose?

[@jessejimenez1793]

Compatibilism is an attempt to reconcile the theological proposition that every event is causally determined, ordained, and/or decreed by God (i.e., determinism, not to be confused with fatalism)-with the free will of man. Promulgated originally from a philosophical viewpoint by the Greek Stoics and later by numerous philosophers such as Thomas Hobbes and David Hume, and from a theological viewpoint by theologians such as Augustine of Hippo and John Calvin, the compatibilist concept of free will states that though the free will of man seems irreconcilable with the proposition of determinism, they both do exist and are “compatible” with one another. The foundation of the compatibilistic concept of free will is the means by which “will” is defined. From a theological viewpoint, the definition of the will is viewed in light of the revealed, biblical truths of original sin and the spiritual depravity of man. These two truths render the definition of “will” in regard to fallen man as “captive to sin” (Acts 8:23), a “slave of sin” (John 8:34; Romans 6:16-17) and subject only to its “master,” which is sin (Romans 6:14). As such, although the will of man is “free” to do as it wishes, it wishes to act according to its nature, and since the nature of the fallen will is sinful, every intent of the thoughts of the fallen man’s heart is “only evil continually” (Genesis 6:5, cf. Genesis 8:21). He, being naturally rebellious to that which is spiritually good (Romans 8:7-8; 1 Corinthians 2:14), “is bent only on rebellion” (Proverbs 17:11). Essentially, man is “free” to do as he wishes, and he does just that, but man simply cannot do that which is contrary to his nature. What man “wills” to do is subject to and determined solely by his nature. Here is where compatibilism makes the distinction between man having a free will and being a “free agent.” Man is “free” to choose that which is determined by his nature or by the laws of nature. To illustrate, the laws of nature prohibit man from being able to fly, but this does not mean that man is not free. The agent, man, is only free to do that which his nature or the laws of nature allow him to do. Theologically speaking, though the natural man is unable to submit himself to the law of God (Romans 8:7-8) and unable to come to Christ unless the Father draws him to Him (John 6:44), the natural man still acts freely in respect to his nature. He freely and actively suppresses the truth in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) because his nature renders him unable to do otherwise (Job 15:14-16; Psalm 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Jeremiah 13:23; Romans 3:10-11). Two good examples of Jesus’ confirmation of this concept can be found in Matthew 7:16-27 and Matthew 12:34-37. With the distinction between free agency and free will defined, compatibilism then addresses the nature of the free agency of man in respect to the theological proposition known as determinism and/or the biblical truth of the omniscient nature of God. The foundational issue is how man can be held accountable for his actions if his actions were always going to occur (i.e., the future is not subject to change) and could not have been anything other than that which occurred. Although there are numerous passages of Scripture that address this issue, there are three primary passages to examine. The story of Joseph and his brothers The first is the story of Joseph and his brothers (Genesis 37). Joseph was hated by his brothers because their father, Jacob, loved Joseph more than any of his other sons (Genesis 37:3) and because of Joseph’s dreams and their interpretation (Genesis 37:5-11). At an opportune time, Joseph’s brothers sold him as a slave to traveling Midianite traders. Then they dipped his tunic in the blood of a slain goat in order to deceive their father into thinking Joseph had been mauled by a beast (Genesis 37:18-33). After many years, during which Joseph had been blessed by the Lord, Joseph’s brothers meet him in Egypt, and Joseph reveals himself to them (Genesis 45:3-4). It is Joseph’s discussion with his brothers that is most pertinent to the issue: “So then, it was not you who sent me here, but God. He made me father to Pharaoh, lord of his entire household and ruler of all Egypt” (Genesis 45:8). What makes this statement startling is that Joseph had previously said his brothers had, in fact, sold him into Egypt (Genesis 45:4-5). A few chapters later, the concept of compatibilism is presented: “You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives” (Genesis 50:20). The Genesis story tells us that it was, in fact, the brothers who sold Joseph into Egypt. However, Joseph makes it clear that God had done so. Those who reject the concept of compatibilism would say that this verse is simply stating that God “used” Joseph’s brothers’ actions for good. However, this is not what the text says. From Genesis 45-50, we are told that (1) Joseph’s brothers had sent Joseph to Egypt, (2) God had sent Joseph to Egypt, (3) Joseph’s brothers had evil intentions in sending Joseph to Egypt, and (4) God had good intentions in sending Joseph to Egypt. So, the question is, who sent Joseph to Egypt? The bewildering answer is that both Joseph’s brothers and God did. It was one action being carried out by two entities, the brothers and God doing it simultaneously. The commission of Assyria The second passage that reveals compatibilism is found in Isaiah 10, a prophetic warning passage for God’s people. As divinely promised in Deuteronomy 28-29, God is sending a nation to punish His people for their sins. Isaiah 10:6 says that Assyria is the rod of God’s anger, “commissioned” against God’s people to “seize loot and snatch plunder, and to trample them down like mud in the streets.” Notice, however, what God says about Assyria: “Yet [Assyria] does not so intend, Nor does it plan so in its heart, But rather it is its purpose to destroy And to cut off many nations” (Isaiah 10:7, NASB). God’s intent in the Assyrian invasion is to inflict His righteous judgment against sin, and the intent of the Assyrians is to “destroy and cut off many nations.” Two different purposes, two different entities acting to bring about this purpose, in one, single action. As we read further, God reveals that, although this destruction is determined and decreed by Him (Isaiah 10:23), He will still punish the Assyrians because of the “arrogant heart of the king of Assyria and the pomp of his haughtiness” (Isaiah 10:12, cf. Isaiah 10:15). Even though God Himself had infallibly determined the judgment of a disobedient people, He holds those who brought the judgment accountable for their own actions. The crucifixion of Jesus Christ The third passage of Scripture that speaks of compatibilism is found in Acts 4:23-28. As revealed in Acts 2:23-25, Christ’s death on the cross was carried out by the “predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God.” Acts 4:27-28 further reveals that the actions of Herod, Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles, and the people of Israel had been determined and decreed by God Himself to occur as they “gathered together against” Jesus and did “what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.” Although God had determined that Christ should die, those responsible for His death were still held accountable for their actions. Christ was put to death by wicked men, “yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer” (Isaiah 53:10). Once again, the answer to the question "who put Jesus to death?" is both God and the wicked people-two purposes carried out by two entities within a single action. There are other passages of Scripture that pertain to the concept of compatibilism, such as God hardening the hearts of individuals (e.g., Exodus 4:21; Joshua 11:20; Isaiah 63:17). While compatibilism seems bewildering to us (Job 9:10; Isaiah 55:8-11; Romans 11:33), this truth has been revealed by God Himself as the means by which His sovereign decree is reconciled with the will of man. God is sovereign over all things (Psalm 115:3, Daniel 4:35, Matthew 10:29-30), God knows all things (Job 37:16; Psalm 147:5; 1 John 3:19-20), and man is held accountable for what he does (Genesis 18:25; Acts 17:31; Jude 1:15). Truly, His ways are unfathomable (Job 9:10; Romans 11:33), and so we should trust in the Lord with all our hearts and lean not on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5-6).

[@qcbtbx]

Those last lines though...🔥🔥🔥

[@livingwithgod9564]

Excellent! Another example of why we are to follow Jesus instead of man (for example Calvin). Determinism (predestination) comes from other religions, not Christianity.

[@mrnoedahl]

Very well done my hillbilly friend.

[@timothymorrell4023]

I love this word! i was going to hit the like button, but there was 777 likes and i could not change perfection =)

[@LukeBrinkerhoff]

I think most people that I hear say “I lean more Calvinistic” don’t really know what they are saying. They only hear the more agreeable parts and not the rest. I don’t think they believe that God decreed all things, if they did than they are reading the wrong bible.

[@JonathanEngblom]

You used to talk slower, it seems...😅 your work is very helpfull, brother, I long to see you one day, here or in the hereafter 😊

[@harutikz]

Without free will the whole creation and humanity first of all would be purposeless. God could not be glorified by puppets, and He either needs the praises of latter

[@pbuckets9242]

Oh my God thank you so much for this! I am in the Fort Worth area for a week for Business. Do you know of a good place to join a bible study this week? Thank you.

[@Hermanopepe]

Question brother, what software do you use to make your videos?

[@wtom04]

Man has free will, otherwise God would not have given the following exhortations in His Word: Joshua 24:15 - And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:22 - Then Joshua said, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have CHOSEN to serve the Lord.” “Yes, we are witnesses,” they replied. The word "chosen" in Joshua 24:22 indicates that man has free will and indicates the action taken by the people as a result of the exhortation given in Joshua 24:15. Deuteronomy 30:19 - 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE life, that both thou and thy seed may live: Again, the word "choose" indicates that God has given us FREE WILL. Judges 10:14 - 14 Go and cry unto the gods WHICH YE HAVE CHOSEN; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation. Ezra 8:28 - And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the Lord; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a FREEWILL offering unto the Lord God of your fathers. Psalm 119:108 - Accept, I beseech thee, the FREEWILL offerings of my mouth, O Lord, and teach me thy judgments. Isaiah 66:3-4 - 3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have CHOSEN THEIR OWN WAYS, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

[@allentomas3417]

sure is obvious, thanks

[@dannykirby7425]

There is 2 ways God can ordain things , He can either make something happen with His power, or simply allow something to happen. This is what RCSproul taught. But nothing happens that God doesn’t know.

[@PresidentChristopher]

In creating, it is impossible for an all-knowing GOD to create a creation, without knowing every last chain reaction and how it will come about. He gives free will to all, but he knows how each one will use their free will, and all the influences that will influence, BUT... God Himself by His Spirit influences people by convicting their sins, but if GOD is truly good, and gives no free will in our Salvation, why then, if He is truly good, (and if there is no free will) why then does He call and convict men and women who refuse God's Salvation? God KNOWS ow we will use the variable of our free will. IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE for God to ave created this universe without, by necessity, creating it in such a way AS HE KNOWS HOW EVERY OE WILL USE their free will to make their choices. In accordance with all the other countless variables, including GOD'S direct intervention.

[@giaarmany7329]

Pastor flowers!!!! We need all your work in Spanish!!!!!! Reformed churches are sending people to the Hispanic countries!!!! They reallly believe they need to save all the people with different gospel than calvinism, most of the Hispanic reformed calvinist dont think you can be save if you are not reformed or calvinist... They dont love others Christians..🤦‍♂️

[@Soteriology101]

Guillerm Armany Start translating :)

[@giaarmany7329]

@@Soteriology101 you speak too fast!!!!! Lol This needs to be done professionally... every word need to be right..

[@mattstephens8108]

You're so right. Calvinism limits God's omniscience. You can't limit God. He knows ALL that could EVER happen. He just allows us to choose. He knows what will happen regardless. We're predictable to Him. When we intercede for each other through prayer, then He will oblige us, as long as it's righteous and congruent with His will.

[@MistyEry]

And by this perception that calvinists hold, it boggles my mind that they could worship a God who authors and creates evil and sin while simultaneously blames man kind. Their God sounds satanic, evil and abusive which defies goodness. Their belief absolutely opposes and misrepresents the true Character of God.

[@starship9629]

I checked for the quotes in Piper’s book and couldn’t find them. Are you sure it’s the right book? Can you provide the sources next time

[@sunshinegirl1967]

And the answer to your question is "only if you'd rather make God responsible for everything that happens." Then that begs the question why do you want God to be responsible for everything? Brcause its easier? Because there is less (or no) work involved and then no chance of falling into "works" salvation?

[@rafaelrolino]

I'm from Brazil and I really want to translate some of your videos in portuguese. Maybe adding subtitles on your video. I wanted to share with calvinist friends.

[@Soteriology101]

Rafael Araujo Go for it!

[@antoniogroothuis8390]

If you don’t see this comment I will ask it in your next video, what is the name of your belief and how do I look further into it? Besides your KZbin channel are there any channels or videos that would help with this search?

[@Soteriology101]

www.soteriology101.com.

[@empirelight5477]

If the future is set, then who is predetermining the future if not God? If God does not determine the future then even God does not have free will as He is trapped in a future that is set. Can God look into the future and change something that He does not like?

[@freedomrider266]

NOTHING is required for God to be God! Sin-free and perfect in all ways is everything that's necessary!!

[@reedermh]

I don't understand the logical argument that's being made by Mr. Craig at the 4:50 to 6:30 minute mark. I've listened to this video twice and still am not clear how his argument supports the viewpoint made in this video. On the other hand the rest of the video is quite good and has strengthened my opposition to the false teachings of Calvinism.

[@justindavis2711]

Absoloute foreknowledge of the result of your design is the same as planning with certainty. Fullfilling those plans via your own direct act, is no different to causation. There must be some level of unknowing of our choices prior to creating us for any moral judgment of our choices to remain legitimate.

[@MaverickBEvans]

"Either we are correct in our view of freewill in defense of God's glory or, or God has predetermined us to be wrong for His greatest glory." Wouldn't a Calvinist say that YOU are not glorifying God but God is glorifying Himself through your predestination to be wrong for His greatest glory? 13:54

[@pyrobreather1]

I am genuinely trying to understand how God could know before you make a free choice what that free choice will be. The only solution I could see is if free-will is timeless and only experienced by us as occuring in time. But if free will were timeless, God's "foreknowledge" would have to be timeless, and therefore God could not know it in terms of what "will happen." God isn't omniscient by definition. Jesus was fully God, yet did not know for instance the day or the hour of his return, therefore we see biblical proof that God can purposefully limit Himself...perhaps from one standpoint it's a limitation, and from the other it's a superpower. I noticed you quoted C.S. Lewis on free will, I would encourage also mentioning what he said with regard to free will and timeless omniscience, which I've paraphrased here in part.

[@Ransomonious]

I have the same question. The imaginable scenarios get real divergent pretty quickly.

[@tonyforeman9502]

What about some info on Open Theism?

[@austinh681]

Does God change His mind?

[@shawnmason8543]

This kills me. My wife struggled with this for years. She was molested as a child and was always told that God determined everything and that there was no free will. So she struggled with the idea that God allowed a man to do that to her and even determined it. I was finally able to get her to come out of that and realize that that is not what God did. Calvinism can destroy people’s faith.

[@AnathemaMysticalcel]

This is the internet so I am sure so.eone will say I am wrong. I understand the scriptures say that whoever's name is not found written in the lambs book of life will depart. The scriptures even say that these names were written before the foundation of the world. This implies determinism. BUT ONLY IF YOU DO NOT TAKE JESUS PROMISE/THREAT TO BLOT NAMES OUT SERIOUSLY. is it possible that everyone every had their names written before the world began and they just disqualify themselves?

[@davidtrue4255]

One thing I don't understand from a Calvinist's point of view is that God knows all things because he decreed all things, yet God himself does as he pleases. This seems to indicate that God has freewill, and the ability to choose. This, itself, indicates that God also has options. Therefore, there are things God chose NOT to do, like the fact that he chose a certain person to be saved instead of not being saved. This knowledge of what God chooses NOT to do must also be part of his omniscience, which exists outside his decree since He decreed something else to occur. His choosing to decree what gives Him glory shows that his knowledge extends to cause and effect outside His own decrees. Why is it then illogical to extend that same omniscience of cause and effect to his creation, even to the point of knowing beforehand all effects of all causes? If it is a logical step, would it then not be logical that God, being omnipotent, could work with these causes and effects to still bring out His glory, despite our God given ability to go against Him?

[@UniteAgainstEvil]

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Acts 20:28‭-‬31 KJV

[@djohnson3093]

If determinism is correct... Can anyone truly ever walk outside of God's will? Can anyone ever live contrary to God 🤔 Wouldn't the calvinist doctrine of determinism make this impossible?

[@soundimpact4633]

These are actually gradual steps towards universalism....

[@AL-fl5cj]

There are some good points but we don't fully have free will. "If the Lord wills we will do this or that". We still will but "not my will but yours be done" so, that's interesting. thinking out loud here, if anyone's will is to do God's will he will know if the teaching is from God....... John 7.17

[@jerrydeoleo9732]

My brother, so the way to refute a Calvinist is by the Authority of the Words of a Molinist, even though you're a Traditionalist? That's kinda interesting, don't you think?

[@Soteriology101]

Jerry DeOleo What makes you think the two are mutually exclusive?

[@allentomas3417]

yeah, Jerry, you can think, even, no or yeah

[@jerrydeoleo9732]

Which two?

[@allentomas3417]

@@jerrydeoleo9732 follow the script, boy, and never call the good doc names

[@_isaiah.g._3521]

Still need explanations for Ephesians 2:2, 2 Timothy 2:25-26, & Acts 16:14

[@rangersNHL]

None of these verses support Calvinism, or determinism.

[@_isaiah.g._3521]

@@rangersNHL um, yes. They do. I'm not Calvinist but you didn't even bother to explain why or how they don't. Acts 16:14, God opened Lydia's heart so she would accept the message that Paul brought and give heed to it.. Eph 2:2, the devil is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. 2 Tim. 2:25-26 gently reprove those who oppose the truth, pray that perhaps God will grant them repentance so they can escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive to do his will.

[@rangersNHL]

_Isaiah.g. _ I did read the verses. I am confused by your post. Are you saying that God determined these things? Salvation has always been and always will be a work of God. But man is responsible to listen and heed...look and live. Don’t want to be combative trying to understand your perspective.

[@_isaiah.g._3521]

@@rangersNHL I'm not sure we're reading the verses in the same way then lol. While I agree it's man responsibility to listen & heed... That verse in Acts says God opened her heart so that she would heed to it. If someone can explain in a way that would disprove the Total Depravity implications of these verses I'm all ears.

[@rangersNHL]

@@_isaiah.g._3521 I guess so...lol...The issue with these verses from a Calvinist perspective is what Total Depravity means to a Calvinist. Total Depravity does not simply mean that man is completely sinful, but it means that man CANNOT respond to God. Man cannot see himself as sinner. Total Depravity means that man cannot call on God unless God brings life to that man. To a Calvinist, for man to be dead in his sins implies that the man can't respond--the reason is because he is dead (spiritually) and dead men can't respond because they are dead (hope that makes sense). This is a Calvinist view not a Christian view. The greatest example of God dealing with DEAD men in their sins and man's response is found in Genesis 3 after Adam ate the fruit. When Adam ate the fruit he died spiritually. He was dead. He was separated from God (which is what death is--separation. Death is not lifelessness, even after a person physically dies they are still living somewhere, just not on the earth---they are separated from this life). Adam could not save himself. There was nothing that Adam could do. God sought MAN. It has always been this way and will always be this way---God always seeks man! But what did Adam do? He responded. According to Calvinist, a man cannot respond to God unless God brings life to him first, but that did not happen. Adam saw his condition before God even spoke, that’s why Adam covered himself up. (something Calvinist do not believe, again, unless through a supernatural work of God) Total Depravity as taught by Calvinist does not stand up to the first salvation encounter. Concerning the verses in Acts that you asked about God is showing us one of many ways that God brings salvation to mankind. When you read that verse notice that the Bible says she was a worshiper of God and she heard them. Then the Bible says that God opened her heart and she attended or listened to Paul. She was fulfilling a principle that is taught through Scripture. The principle that is taught in scripture is that God gives light or understanding to mankind. When mankind responds positively to that, God gives more light or understanding. This is what Lydia did. She heard about God and began to worship Him. God gave her light, she responded and God gave more light. This continued to happen until she saw the Savior and the deliverance that He offered. This is no different than any one else. But this story does not prove nor does it support a deterministic perspective of salvation. For example there were those who saw Christ for who He was yet they rejected Him---Joh 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. These people knew that Jesus was the Son of God, yet they rejected Him. God opened their eyes through the scripture yet they rejected. Hope this helps some…

[@djengo77]

Calvinism: *"God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."* So, according to Calvinism, God freely and unchangeably ordained the writing of every jot and tittle of every literary work that has ever been written in opposition to the Bible. So, should we thus consider, say, Darwin's _On the Origin of Species,_ or the works of Voltaire, to be Scripture?

[@Jane-yh3rn]

God is transcendent. He is not contained by time.

[@tieskedh]

Quantum eraser, we can foreknow things based upon future events.

[@vanessadaday5874]

Dr. Flowers I’d like to see you debate John MacArthur!! I really think Calvinism teaches that God is a narcissist.

[@publicproclaimer9724]

Your quote of Jeremiah 19:5 refutes the Calvinist as well as the traditional Arminian View of Gods foreknowledge. If God is genuinely saying “neither came it into my mind” you would think we could logically conclude He did not exhaustively pre know from eternity past that they would. The Arminian has a great problem too in claiming God has eternal exhaustive foreknowledge. If God is not the determiner of His exhaustive knowledge then God is the mere subordinate of a future He Himself cannot help but know! Things genuinely can never be something other than what He ultimately knows they will be, wether He is the cause of those things or not. The only consistent view of God in the Arminian view concerning His foreknowledge is to adopt some sort of open view (bearing in mind an open view of the future isn’t a denying of Gods foreknowledge but a defining of the nature of the future God knows). Yes God knows all that can be known! But does that follow that all the future can be known now in terms of certainty? Apparently not, because God says “if” in the Bible concerning prophecies, even changing His mind and canceling His own prophecies! Conclusion: Jeremiah 19:5 among many verses challenge both the Arminian as well as the Calvinist which holds to eternal exhaustive foreknowledge.

[@Soteriology101]

Public Proclaimer The problem is that even Open Theists believe God knows all possibilities so it can’t mean that the idea literally didn’t enter his mind on their view either. I think it’s a figure of speech emphasizing that He didn’t decree or want them to do this evil. That’s the most plausible reading IMO.

[@publicproclaimer9724]

I really enjoy your channel. Thank you for all you do. From what I have been exposed to in Open Theist literature or open view writings, there are things that are not objects of knowledge in the certainty sense with God. Of course the possibility was there for them to sacrifice their children and therefore potential in the mind of God, but it appears that the certainty of the possibility 'actually becoming' in time was not so to His divine mind. But eternal exhaustive foreknowledge would still make this sacrificing of children a certainty with God. If it wasn't a certainty to His mind then something is wrong in our interpretation of Gods foreknowledge as being absolute. As absolute is the future for God because of His decree in Calvinism, the future is just as absolutely certain and fixed in the mind of God concerning those who hold to a eternal exhaustive foreknowledge view no matter what camp they espouse. But yet we see God taking things into consideration concerning His present actions, even changing prophecies, cancelling prophecies, etc. These could not have been genuine changes in God because God knew from eternity past exactly how the situation would actually happen (since HE knows the future as a certainty). Have you ever read any L. D. McCabe works on the open view?

[@truth7416]

Yes ask John Piper what he meant by saying this? Direct quote "God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . ." I say John Pipers god is a monster created by John Calvin and the Deformed Theology he crafted!! My God the only true God is the opposite. 1 Timothy 2 : 3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Acts 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”… Acts 2:37-39 Three Thousand Believe 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off- Don't listen to this Heretic! TRUTH IN LOVE

[@bigdogboos1]

omniscience just means God knows all things that can be knowable. the future is not a thing to be know, it is a thing that will happen in the future, and thus will be known at that point. God knows all possibilities of future events, but does not know all the choices of free creatures. This is not even hinted at in the Bible. The future God "knows" are things that he promises to make come to pass. But as for the rest, it's an open book. Time is not a "thing" that exists, it's simply an attribute of existence; an attribute of being. To exist is to experience sequence, which is what we call time. There is no "existing" in the future and/or the past. There is only right now, the plane of existing. God works in real time in reality, b/c that is all there is. Tons of places in the bible that indicate God did not know what people were going to do, and was even shocked at what they did. God is a real being, that exists in reality. He is not "outside of time", the bible never mentions this either. Time is not a thing that was created, it's just an attribute of existence ... so yes, God experiences time just as we do and doesn't jump in and out of time (also never hinted at in the bible).

[@briward1654]

You might be interested to know what Calvinism's, John Calvin actually said: John Calvin himself taught: “Creatures are so governed by the secret counsel of God, that nothing happens but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 3) “thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5) “We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, -that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin,Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8) “The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11) “…it is very wicked merely to investigate the causes of God’s will. For his will is, and rightly ought to be, the cause of all things that are.”…”For God’s will is so much the highest rule of righteousness that whatever he wills, by the very fact that he wills it, must be considered righteous. When, therefore, one asks why God has so done, we must reply: because he has willed it. But if you proceed further to ask why he so willed, you are seeking something greater and higher than God’s will, which cannot be found.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1) “Many professing a desire to defend the Deity from an individual charge admit the doctrine of election, but deny that any one is reprobated. This they do ignorantly and childishly, since there could be no election without its opposite, reprobation.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1) “…it is utterly inconsistent to transfer the preparation for destruction to anything but God’s secret plan… God’s secret plan is the cause of hardening.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 2, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1) “I admit that in this miserable condition wherein men are now bound, all of Adam’s children have fallen by God’s will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 4) “With Augustine I say: the Lord has created those whom he unquestionably foreknew would go to destruction. This has happened because he has willed.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 5) “…individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin,Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6) “…it is vain to debate about prescience, which it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6) “But since he foresees future events only by reason of the fact that he decreed that they take place, they vainly raise a quarrel over foreknowledge, when it is clear that all things take place rather by his determination and bidding.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6) “Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam’s fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently foreknew because he so ordained by his decree. And it ought not to seem absurd for me to say that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his descendants, but also meted it out in accordance with his own decision.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 7) “The first man fell because the Lord deemed it meet that he should.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 8) “Even though by God’s eternal providence man has been created to undergo that calamity to which he is subject, it still takes its occasion from man himself, not from God, since the only reason for his ruin is that he has degenerated from God’s pure creation into vicious and impure perversity.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 9)

[@georgewarner5496]

Perhaps the videos of L. Flowers have inadvertently given John Calvin more worldwide fame and glorification than anything else. A relevant poem line : Truth is known by its silent influence but falsehood is known by its need to make a noise.

[@gospelbass7]

Molinism makes the most sense, although molinists like William Lane Craig disagree with Molina on individual predestination, as i do.

[@gospelbass7]

@@dylanwagoner9768 well.. In order to answer that, how do you understand molinism?

[@gospelbass7]

@@dylanwagoner9768 Good to know. I would start by the philosophical implications of the ontology of God, which is molinism's main point. By applying Gods middle knowledge and doctrine of providence, most of the passages are clear, despite your soteriological approach, whether you hoöd the same view as Molina or Craig, the basic doctrines in molinism will remain. I myself are more like Flowers in this question, where i believe, that we are not unconditionally elected, but God's election is more as secondary cause, where someone is elected based on Christ, whoch God elected before the foundation of the world to be the saviour.

[@gospelbass7]

@@dylanwagoner9768 God's middle knowledge and human responsability, i would say.

[@gospelbass7]

@@dylanwagoner9768 Sure. There is a lot of places to go, but i would point out that there is a election, which God has decided to do, like service, where example would be a Jeremiah 1:5. When it comes to salvation, God never saves people arbitrarily, but there is many instamces, where God gives you the choice, or responsability, like Deuteronomy 30:15-16, which is a classical example as well. Here is a good example, where jews own rebellion was an issue And when they did not agree with one another, they began leaving after Paul had spoken one parting word, “The Holy Spirit rightly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers, saying, ‘G o to this people and say , “Y ou will keep on hearing , but will not understand ; A nd you will keep on seeing , but will not perceive ; F or the heart of this people has become dull , A nd with their ears they scarcely hear , A nd they have closed their eyes ; O therwise they might see with their eyes , A nd hear with their ears , A nd understand with their heart and return , A nd I would heal them .” ’ Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will also listen.” Acts 28:25‭-‬28 NASB This is a passage that is an issue of salvation. The reason, why this isnt unconditional, is because their own hardening is the reault of not being saved, so God does harden those, who willingly rebel, but that is not as if they were hopeless. Let me know if there is something else

[@gospelbass7]

@@dylanwagoner9768 No, you did just ask passages about election, not from middle knowledge(although you asked basis on my claims) If you take Romans 8 as a face value, there you can see that God, based on his foreknowledge, which he did elect saints, is enough to support the idea that it is not arbitrary. Also take into account what Peter says: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, T o those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure. 1 Peter 1:1‭-‬2 NASB Middle knowledge however is necceasary part of God's ontology, if you assume that God is omniscient, which means that God knows every hypothetical circumstances before his divine decree. Applying this, it is clear that God does not do arbitrary choices Now David knew that Saul was plotting evil against him; so he said to Abiathar the priest, “Bring the ephod here.” Then David said, “O Lord God of Israel, Your servant has heard for certain that Saul is seeking to come to Keilah to destroy the city on my account. Will the men of Keilah surrender me into his hand? Will Saul come down just as Your servant has heard? O Lord God of Israel, I pray, tell Your servant.” And the Lord said, “He will come down.” Then David said, “Will the men of Keilah surrender me and my men into the hand of Saul?” And the Lord said, “They will surrender you.” Then David and his men, about six hundred, arose and departed from Keilah, and they went wherever they could go. When it was told Saul that David had escaped from Keilah, he gave up the pursuit. David stayed in the wilderness in the strongholds, and remained in the hill country in the wilderness of Ziph. And Saul sought him every day, but God did not deliver him into his hand. 1 Samuel 23:9‭-‬14 NASB By this, God foreknew possible outcomes and thus he knows all the counterfactuals of creaturely freedoms

[@JerichoLeon]

All one needs to do to refute such a silly Calvinist doctrine is look to Scripture. One of many examples: James 1:13 - “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am tempted by God;’ for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.” So if God foreordains all things, then He is the one who actually tempts the person, contrary to what Scripture says? Absurd.

[@sp4gsus]

Good one.

[@sp4gsus]

macolyis to say demons had legal ground to do anything is silly if you believe as calvinism teaches that everything is ordained of God. So was Lucifer’s fall (even though scripture says iniquity was found in thee). MMs 7 demons could have been exorcised via prayer and fasting by true believers because the prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Of course Yeshua set you free as he did those demons. Of course you didn’t set yourself free, no he did. He was probably honoring the prayers made on your behalf. Like the prodigal son you caught a glimpse of grace, came to your senses and of your free will returned to the Father hallelujah. Now You need to come to your senses again and see that calvinism is simply an embarrassment to the goodness of God and his abundant grace available to all mankind so they also may be set free by Yeshua.

[@davidochieng2975]

@@sp4gsus The father knew that the son would come back after much suffering, God has ways to bring back his sons to him ,he sees the end from the beginning . "You did not choose me but I CHOSE YOU .(John 15:16) "But I,when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men(the chosen ones) to myself(John12:32 ".... No one knows who the Son is except the Father ,and no one knows the Father is except the Son and THOSE WHOM THE SON CHOOSES to reveal him.

[@jaygee2187]

David Ochieng are ‘the elect, the chosen ones’ and ‘all men’ synonymous?

[@sp4gsus]

Jay Gee of course they are. All”kinds” of men not all men everywhere didn’t you know?

[@justice3043]

There is no argument that God has a perceptive will I think the debate is over his Sovereign to decreative will

[@The_Scouts_Code]

This is a knock-down argument and anyone holding to Calvinism after hearing this shouldn't...

[@davidwang7212]

I agree the hyper calvinists made wrong deduction that God determined all things from God knows alk things

[@jaygee2187]

David Wang that’s not hyper Calvinism; ALL of Calvinism asserts that God predetermined all things.

[@davidwang7212]

@@jaygee2187 Hi Jay. I believe our salvation is predestined by God. but I dont believe God predestined others to hell.

[@jamesjohnson8918]

If Pope Calvin said it it must be true.

[@wtom04]

God's foreknowledge does not equal foreordination. If that was the case, then the free will of man is negated and man becomes a predestined puppet on a string. Many people in the church today are clueless and in a state of great confusion regarding what true Biblical predestination is and because of Calvinism's great influence in the churches, they will fall back on Calvinism's twisted definition that has been forcefully imposed into many seminaries, Bible colleges, theology textbooks, dictionaries, churches, and church constitutions for centuries. True Biblical predestination takes place AFTER a person comes to faith in Christ. The Christian is predestinated for 3 things which takes place in the future. True Biblical predestination ONLY applies to those that are saved. 1) They are predestinated to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST - Romans 8:29-30, 1 Corinthians 15:49 - And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Philippians 3:21 - Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. All saved people will be like Christ. We shall be like Him - 1 John 3:2. This is a future aspect at the Rapture. 2) They are predestinated to have an INHERITANCE in heaven - Ephesians 1:11, John 14:2-4. Again, this is a future aspect. 3) They are predestinated to have GLORIFIED ETERNAL BODIES OF FLESH AND BONE, the REDEMPTION OF OUR PHYSICAL BODIES just like Jesus resurrected body described in Luke 24:39, Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:23, Christ's newly resurrected glorified body is the prototype of what is to come for all saved Christians at the RAPTURE - 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, 1 John 3:2. ======================================================================================================================================================================= There is a world of difference between true Biblical predestination and election versus Calvinist "predestination" and "election." Calvinism will use the terms "predestination" and "election" interchangeably to mean the same thing, that is, salvation or damnation which is predetermined in eternity past by God. Calvinism has hijacked the words, "chose", "chosen", "elect", "election" and "predestinate" and perverted the true definition. The true definition is NOT "chose", "chosen", "elect", "election" for salvation. When the Bible talks about being "chosen" or "elect" or "election", it is referring to individuals that have willingly believed the gospel of John 3:16 and are saved that are "chosen"/"elected" AFTER salvation for MINISTRY/ SERVICE/EVANGELISM. The true Biblical definition of ELECTION is that God elects/chooses those that are saved who willingly believed in the simple gospel of John 3:16 for SERVICE/MINISTRY/EVANGELISM. Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Mark 16:15-16 - 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. The below are examples of God CHOOSING/ELECTING saved people for SERVICE/MINISTRY/EVANGELISM: 1) God CHOSE the Israelites, the Jewish nation to be His chosen people. The Jews are God's ELECT - Deut 7:6, 14:2, 1 Kings 3:8, Psalms 33:12, 106:5, Isaiah 43:10, 45:4, 65:9, 22 Matthew 24:22, 31 Mark 13:20, Luke 18:7, Romans 9:11, 11:28, 2 Tim 2:10, 1 Peter 2:4. 2) God CHOSE Jesus to be the chief cornerstone - 1 Peter 2:4, 6. God chose Jesus to be the Messiah - Isaiah 42:1-4, 49:7, Matt 12:18, Luke 9:35, 23:35, John 1:34, and was chosen to die on the cross for ALL mankind - Matt 12:18, 1 Peter 2:4. 3) Jesus CHOSE 12 men to be His disciples - Luke 6:13, John 6:70, John 13:18, John 15:16, 19, Acts 1:2. God CHOSE Matthias to replace Judas Iscariot - Acts 1:24-26. 4) Saul of Tarsus who became Paul was CHOSEN by Jesus to be the apostle to the Gentiles - Acts 9:15, 13:2, 22:14-15, Galatians 2:8. 5) Simon Peter was CHOSEN by God to bring the gospel message to Cornelius and his family - Acts 10:1-48, Acts 15:7. Simon Peter was CHOSEN also to be the apostle to the Jews - Galatians 2:8. 6) God CHOSE Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt and to the Promised Land - Numbers 16:5-6. 7) God CHOSE Aaron and the tribe of Levi to be the priestly line - Numbers 17:5, 1 Sam 2:28, 2 Chronicles 29:1. God chose priests from the tribe of Levi to minister before Him in the temple and would be paid by the tithes of the people - Deut 18:5-8, 21:5, 1 Chronicles 15:2 8) God CHOSE Abraham - Nehemiah 9:7, God CHOSE Isaac and Jacob - Psalms 135:4, Isaiah 41:8, Ezekiel 20:5, and CHOSE Judah - 1 Chronicles 28:4, Psalms 78:67, to be in the line of Messiah. 9) God CHOSE David to replace King Saul and to be in the line of Messiah - 2 Samuel 6:21, 1 Kings 8:16, 1 Chronicles 28:4, 2 Chron 6:6, Psalms 89:3. 10) God CHOSE Solomon to be king after his father David - 1 Chronicles 29:1. 11) God CHOSE Mary and Joseph. Mary, the mother of Jesus - Luke 1:30, 42-45, 48. Joseph, the husband of Mary - Matthew 1:20. 12) God CHOSE Jerusalem to be His forever chosen city - Deut 15:20, Deut 16:2, 15, 1 Kings 8:44, 11:13, 14:21, 2 Kings 21:7, 23:27, 2 Chron 6:6, 34, 12:13, 33:7, Nehemiah 1:9, Psalms 132:13, Zechariah 3:2. 13) The Jewish Christians scattered in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, were the CHOSEN sojourners whom Peter wrote to and addressed them as the "ELECT" - 1 Peter 1:2.

[@jimmiepatrum]

What about Psalm 139:16 which says, "Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in Your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, which as yet there were none of them." What about Job 14:5 which says, "Since his days are determined, The number of his months is with You (God); You have appointed his limits, so that he cannot pass." I believe that man has free will, but I believe that God not only knows the actual day of my death, He predetermined it. What I do up until that very day of my death, I have free will over, but no free will over the actual day of my death. I need to live every day in Christ since I don't know my appointed time to die. Please tell me where I am wrong in my thinking. Diane in NC.

[@allentomas3417]

diana gril: this is evil thinking, care for some light, dear??

[@jimmiepatrum]

@@allentomas3417 How is this evil thinking? Please, please enlighten. Diane in NC

[@allentomas3417]

Diane: First and foremost, God never oversteps our free will decisions, we play a major part in our destiny according to our believing and obedience to God's will. God is the supplier of all our need, yet we are laborers together with him. God gave us instructions in order to live a fulfilled life. Our choices and decisions determine our well being, or lack thereof. This is why God exhorts us to walk with him, in fellowship, by adhering to his will for us. God is always there for us, yet we must cooperate with him, by applying the principles for prosperity in our lives. The renewing of our minds is our responsibility, as we grow in the knowledge and wisdom of the word of God, this is our safe path, which allows God to keep us in all our ways, and for all of our days. Remember, this is a walk and we all mess up at times, yet we fall, but rebound and go again, and thank God for catching us and supplying grace as needed, it is to become a lifestyle of trusting God to direct our steps, as we do our best to follow his way. God never gives up on his children, so we always have his loving arms around us, so that we never need to feel helpless or hopeless, and he delivers to the uttermost when we came back to him, every time we fail.

[@jimmiepatrum]

@@allentomas3417 I totally agree that God supplies ALL our needs, even those where He chastens us to encourage us to lean on Him always. He loves us beyond all reason - we will never be able to fully comprehend how much He loves us. The point I was trying to make in my original post is that while I have free will throughout my life, God has determined the day I will die. I don't completely understand how suicide factors into that, but I do believe what Psalm and Job tell me in the verses I quoted. I don't disagree with anything you have said and I believe that the decisions I make determine my well being. You still didn't give me any explanation of how my belief about the day of my death having been predetermined by God is evil. Still I ask, how is that belief evil? Diane in NC

[@rubyztonewarjri9260]

Calvin ism or Fatalism

[@Tilbillygirl]

Thank you for these videos. I have always been an opponent of Calvinism and have left churches over their hard stance in support of it. I am suspicious that the current church that I am a member of is starting to adopt Calvinism (the signs are there including the leaders that they seem to be promoting e.g. Piper prodigy Matt Chandler). Is it possible to get the page numbers from Piper’s book that these quotes come from?

[@davidochieng2975]

You will move away from what Calvinist believe and teach but their teachings come from the Scriptures.

[@wtom04]

The perverted doctrine of Calvinistic "predestination" spawned from Augustine who is also the father of Roman Catholicism. John Calvin did not get his version of "predestination/election" from the Bible, but he borrowed it from his idol, Augustine. His version of it is identical to Augustine's perversion of it. 1) ....."salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion - Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5. 2) "We call predestination God's eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, ETERNAL LIFE IS FORE-ORDAINED FOR SOME, ETERNAL DAMNATION FOR OTHERS." - John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion - Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5. 3) ..."we say that God once established by his eternal and unchangeable plan those whom he long before determined once for all to receive into SALVATION, and those whom, on the other hand, he would devote to DESTRUCTION...he has barred the door of life to those whom he has given over to damnation." - John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 7. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "That owing to one man all pass into condemnation who are born of Adam unless they are born again in Christ, even as He has appointed them to be regenerated, before they die in the body, whom He PREDESTINATED TO EVERLASTING LIFE, as the most merciful bestower of grace; while to those whom He HAS PREDESTINATED TO ETERNAL DEATH, He is also the most righteous awarder of punishment not only on account of the sins which they add in the indulgence of their own will, but also because of their original sin, even if, as in the case of infants, they add nothing thereto. Now this is my definite view on that question, so that the hidden things of God may keep their secret, without impairing my own faith." - Augustine, City of God, On the Soul and its Origin, Book 4, Chapter 16. It appears that Calvin's definition and Augustine's definition of "predestination/election" is identical to Islam's belief in FATALISM and also identical to Stoicism's belief in DETERMINISM. Satan has packaged the same thing under different names - "Predestination/Election", "Foreordination", "Fatalism", and "Determinism."

[@allentomas3417]

Death and Its Aftermath If a person dies, the life force he had is gone and he no longer exists anywhere in any form. He stays dead (figuratively, “asleep”) until he is “awakened” from the dead by the Lord Jesus. All dead Christians will be awakened at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to meet the Church in the air and be judged for rewards. Old Testament and Tribulation believers will be awakened at the coming of the Lord to the earth. Everyone else who has ever lived will be awakened after the Millennial Kingdom and judged for either everlasting life or everlasting death. The only hope for all those who have died is their resurrection from the dead by the Lord Jesus Christ, himself the “firstborn from among the dead” (Col. 1:18). Just about every religion on earth teaches that when you die you go to some kind of paradise, or some kind of hell, or somewhere in between, but is that what happens? The word is clear on this subject. Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? It says that there is no remembrance of anyone who has died. This verse is talking about the remembrance, the memories, the thoughts and consciousness of those who have died. After someone has died they cannot remember God, and nor can they thank him for anything. Psalm 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. When you take your last breath, your life has gone and at that moment your thoughts are no more. You have no more consciousness, which means absolutely no thoughts or emotions. That is logical because you are dead, and dead, by definition, means dead, it does not mean alive. Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten (their memory, their thoughts are gone). Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. This supports the truth of Psalm 146:4 - there is absolutely nothing awaiting anyone in the grave other than death, a state of nothingness. Psalm 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth? Forget about going to be with God and enjoying a party in heaven when you die. The dead go into the grave, they do not party in heaven. Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. People who believe they live immediately after they die, or go to be with Jesus, have been deceived. Those who teach that when you die you go to heaven, to hell, or to purgatory, either have no understanding of the scriptures or they are liars. 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Now ask yourself, if when you die you go to heaven, why would Jesus Christ have to come back to earth for you? If you are already alive, how could God raise you from the dead? If you were alive, there would be no need to raise you from the dead because you would already be alive. The teaching that when you die you don't really die has no scriptural basis. In this context, it is intriguing to recall the first lie ever recorded in the bible, way back in Genesis. Genesis 3:1-4 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: There you go - the first lie in the bible is that when you die you don't really die. God said they would die, the devil told Eve she would not die. This is still the biggest lie in the world today. All religions teach that when you die you go to some place called heaven, or you go to some burning hell, or to some place in between called limbo or purgatory. It is all lies. When people die, they are dead, they do not go anywhere except into a grave. Anyone who teaches otherwise has no knowledge of scripture or they are liars. The second death is not life! The soul is not immortal. This is the oldest LIE from Satan!

[@wtom04]

@@allentomas3417 Your comment - "There you go - the first lie in the bible is that when you die you don't really die. God said they would die, the devil told Eve she would not die. This is still the biggest lie in the world today. All religions teach that when you die you go to some place called heaven, or you go to some burning hell, or to some place in between called limbo or purgatory. It is all lies. When people die, they are dead, they do not go anywhere except into a grave. Anyone who teaches otherwise has no knowledge of scripture or they are liars. The second death is not life! The soul is not immortal. This is the oldest LIE from Satan!" My comment - Scripture is very clear that when a SAVED person dies that the person goes to heaven to be with God - 2 Corinthians 5:8. This is the SAVED person's temporary abode for now. Later after the Rapture they are resurrected and will stand before Christ at the Bema Judgment Seat of Christ - 2 Corinthians 5:10, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 to determine the gain or loss of ETERNAL REWARDS and the privilege of reigning with Christ in the Millennial kingdom here on earth - (2 Timothy 2:12, Revelation 2:26, Revelation 3:21). The New Earth will later be the PERMANENT RESIDENCY for all SAVED Christians forever - Revelation 21. The Bema Judgment Seat of Christ is a separate event from the Great White Throne Judgment. 2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV - We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be ABSENT FROM THE BODY, and to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD An UNSAVED person goes to the torment part of hell ( Luke 16:23) and remains there until the day of the Great White Throne Judgment where they will be resurrected at that judgment and stand before God to be condemned and cast into the Lake of Fire forever - Revelation 20:11-15. Luke 16:23 KJV - And in HELL he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

[@johnjames3908]

Islam claims that Allah wills everything, Calvinism claims that God wills or decrees everything. Both are wrong especially Calvinism, because the true living God is made to be like the false god of Islam, cruel unjust, etc. The God of the Bible is no such person. God bless.

[@UltraX34]

Be careful. You're making out the Calvinist to not be a Christian and to be worshipping a God other than the God of the Bible. They are thoroughly orthodox, they just take Augustine's predestinarian views too far.

[@Livingingrace]

There are many similarities between Calvinism. Gnosticism and Islam. Anyone who has looked into the 3 see some very similar doctrines most of which is a monstrous deity who causes,determines or brings to pass (they each have their own word choices for Fatalism) and who they describe is not the God of scripture but a cruel deity that is dishonest and can not be understood. So you are correct in spotting things that Islam and Calvinism line up on.

[@_isaiah.g._3521]

Thought this exact thing some time ago. Calvinism makes God to be no less cruel than Allah. He passionately hates the infidels (non-elect)

[@UltraX34]

@@Livingingrace the difference is that Allah is not immutable, we don't know his character at all. We know the character of the Christian God, that's why we have issues with Calvinism. B

[@chrisamandadeysel5117]

Easy,Islam and calvinism are both products of the roman catholic church.

[@wtom04]

Calvinism's demonic doctrine of "predestination" is no different from the Islamic concept of fatalism. Satan has packaged the same thing, but going under different names in 2 false religions. 1) The Islamic Surah Ibrahim 14:4 - "And We did not send any messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and ALLAH SENDS ASTRAY(THEREBY) WHOM HE WILLS AND GUIDES WHOM HE WILLS. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise." 2) The Islamic Surah 2:6-7 states, "It is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe. ALLAH HAS SET A SEAL ON THEIR HEARTS AND ON THEIR HEARING. AND ON THEIR EYES IS A VEIL; GREAT IS THE CHASTISEMENT THEY INCUR." 3) John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, section 5 - "SOME ARE PREORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE, OTHERS TO ETERNAL DAMNATION, and accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of those ends, we say that he has been predestined to life or death." 4) In Islam, Allah is exalted and pleased as he sends people to hell: this is the fatalistic claim of Islam. Fatalism is a belief that events are fixed in advance for all time in such a manner that human beings are powerless to change them. In this case, Allah will send to heaven whomever he pleases, and send to hell whomever he pleases. ("Unveiling Islam: An Insider’s Look at Muslim Life and Beliefs" pages 31-32, by authors Ergun Mehmet Caner and Emir Fethi Caner Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 2002.)

[@UltraX34]

No. But Molinism is cause if God knows what you would have chosen then he has middle knowledge

[@robertcain3426]

I'm not a Calvanist or want to belong to any 'ism'. However, can't you concieve that both sides of the predestined elect and the free will are true? It's like saying God cannot be both, the Alpha and the Omega. You are thinking as a man and not like a son with the mind of the Spirit.

[@Miskeen-33]

Not in the way calvanism says calvanism says that the elect were selected before forever and God controls everyone's freewill

[@dannykirby7425]

I don’t know where this man gets his ideas of Calvinist , all he says is NOT what I’ve been taught and read in Gods word. We have free will only after God frees it for us. We are in bondage to sin we are dead in our trespasses , God first frees us then we see and hear and choose Christ.

[@78LedHead]

It's so ridiculous that anyone could believe this stuff. It makes God out to be a monster. In the Old Test., the Lord Himself says (concerning child sacrifice), "I never commanded them to do it, nor did it ever come into my mind." If that doesn't tell you that God doesn't preordain everything, IDK what will. You have to be willfully ignorant to escape things like that. They think they're taking up for God's power by holding this position, but that's ridiculous too.... we're never commanded to fully grasp God's sovereignty or the full weight of His power, nor could we. No one could understand the intricacies of God's omniscience.

[@dannykirby7425]

All men do exactly what they WANT to do , and what they want is sin, until God fixes their hearts first.