Can a Calvinist Survive in a Lutheran Church?

[@pelargir1]

“Seeker sensitive” Lutheranism seems like an oxymoron to me. A church service should not be a show designed to impress unbelievers into accepting Christ.

[@LutheranSage]

Correct. I've never heard of any LCMS churches being seeker sensitive 🤦

[@sparky4581]

This is not the norm of LCMS. I would lose it there. Please dont let this shape your views on what LCMS is.

[@pleasevans6394]

I was born and raised calvinist. After attending a Lutheran church for sometime due to lack of reformed churches in my area we have proudly started confessing the doctrine as stated in the Book of Concord. We went through adult confirmation and were brought into full communion on Palm Sunday of this year. The church he describes doesn't sound like a Lutheran church to be honest. If thats what they want thats fine but they should disafiliate with the LCMS or the LCMS should disafiliate with them.

[@Ben_Hedlund]

I believe the question could have been, “Can a Calvinist Survive in a Lutheran Church That Has Shed Numerous Distinctives of Doctrine and Practice, Including Closed Communion”? Which is obviously, yes. I think Andrew is saying numerous quiet parts out loud. The phrases “Big Eva” and “Seeker sensitive,” and the admission that the church changed its name to be cool, at least to more traditional Lutherans, are ways of signaling that you’re ashamed of the doctrine and confession with which your church is associated. I think Lutherans who subscribe to these practices usually have some shame about admitting it, but Andrew comes right out and says it. So I appreciate the candor. Also, the idea of “agreeing to disagree” but becoming a communicant member anyways is a strange one. This makes a mockery of our confessions, from Luther’s Small Catechism to the Formula of Concord, the latter of which was written in part to make clear our differences with the Reformed. Adding the fact that the Missouri Synod was formed in some degree as a response to being forced to commune with Calvinists makes this situation laughable. Given the family ties, I don’t blame necessarily this man much for what he’s doing, but what’s going on at his church is a bit of an indictment of the LCMS.

[@d.schmidt16]

3.5 sacraments: Baptism, communion, Absolution-sort of, and then the last sacrement is coffee.

[@mikecook7334]

I love my Lutheran brothers and sisters, but God is SOVEREIGN in all things and at all times…✝️👍🏻

[@txgsu43]

Lutherans confess God’s sovereignty in all things.

[@robertzamzow3714]

I am a Calvinist that goes to a Lutheran Church as well. I love the church. A lot of Reformed Churches around me are very Law heavy driven. This Church is very Law/Gospel driven. I agree with most doctrine, although we disagree on Definite Atonement and whether one can lose salvation. Something that is interesting in the gentleman's statements was that he said the church he goes to would subscribe to free will. My Church makes it very clear that we didn't choose to be saved but it is all of God.

[@mtl98-n9g]

Every sound confessional lcms church will preach Law/Gospel with a heavy emphasis on Christ given for you. And free will doesn’t exist. This church is outside the bounds of the lcms on this and open communion and probably a host of other issues. But they are getting butts in seats so the district president is turning a blind eye I am guessing.

[@restoredandrecovered7380]

The Book of Concord rejects Calvinism. Calvinists can attend Lutheran churches, but they really shouldn’t be communing members.

[@Isaac556x45]

I would consider going if it was the only option but would be very careful with what Theology I am learning and consuming.

[@restoredandrecovered7380]

@@Isaac556x45 and you want to be a good house guest.

[@danoctavian8184]

we love you too 😂😂

[@Francisco-dg4zf]

@@Isaac556x45I would like to hear more about this ! , let me guess , did the EX JWs start making a big deal about celebrating Christmas ?

[@Isaac556x45]

@@Francisco-dg4zf Yep you guessed it, Christmas, the wooden cross on the wall, Birthdays, and in this case, they were also pacifists who condemned anyone that believed in self defense, amongst several other things. The amount of drama this caused for at least a year was ridiculous.

[@mj6493]

Lutherans believe we receive the promise of the forgiveness of sins at Communion because that is where our faith meets and receives the one sacrifice of Christ on the cross.

[@janetgraf905]

I am a Calvinist and I am attending a Lutheran Church. I am thriving there. Christ is the center of all teaching.

[@JonathanMeyer84]

2.5 sacraments ;-) I'm Confessional Lutheran (LCMS) and learned 2 in Confirmation. In my adult life more recently, I've heard about the third. Not everyone agrees so often people will say "2...3 sort of."

[@twentyfourthrones]

Our confessions pretty clearly teach that there are three (3) proper sacraments instituted by Christ for the church. "Therefore Baptism, the Lord's Supper, and Absolution, which is the Sacrament of Repentance, are truly Sacraments." (Ap., Article XIII, pt. 4) This is because the promise of grace and forgiveness are tied to these rites. However, we are also not "unwilling to call ordination a sacrament... neither will we refuse to call the imposition of hands [confirmation] a sacrament" (Ap., Article XIII, pt. 11-12), if we understand them as applying to the ministry of the Word/the Gospel. So yeah, the numbering of them kind of depends on who you ask lol.

[@andrewborchelt305]

a couple Lutheran clarifications if I may, with the disclaimer that im a simple layperson so always trust the confessions or theologian over me. On Predestination, Lutheranism teaches that the elect are predestined positively and Gods Grace enables our salvation through no power of our own however we are not double predestined because we reject irresistible grace since you can fall away from the faith and thereby reject his free gift of grace that he offers to all. thereby exercising your own free will in damning yourself. so basically we don't exercise our free will to come to god but we can use it to reject him. that makes it close to arminianism but not identical. as we would not say that you can choose god of your own free will (this makes it distinct from the free will position that Mr. Loudon describes) This position doesn't make perfect logical sense (how can you chose only one half of a binary choice?) but it is what the plain reading of the scriptures says and therefore we say it has not been fully revealed and leave it to divine mystery. predestination is not a gotcha for Lutheranism as we can affirm a specific form of it On the Eucharist, Lutherans actually do not profess Consubstantiation. We don't deny it or confirm it (or transubstantiation for that matter) we just affirm the real physical, not simply symbolic, presence and refuse to dogmatically define the mode of its presence. Furthermore, by a strict LCMS interpretation, if your understanding of the Eucharist is not in agreement with that then you should not be permitted to partake lest you eat and drink judgement upon yourself. God provides forgiveness of sins through the Eucharist the same way he provides it through baptism and absolution. A means of grace simply provides forgiveness for your sins and renews and strengthens your faith and that faith is ultimately is the means by which you are saved. These "seeker sensitive" LCMS churches that are ashamed of the name Lutheran clearly do not have good catechesis and have rejected good doctrine for a big tent mindset might as well just be ELCA at that point. The Synod should be disciplining these pastors. if the congregation wants to be "non-denonimnational" then they should just be that.

[@Michael29040]

Pastor Keith, I'm an ELCA Lutheran although my local congregation is more on the old fashioned and conservative side. I'm in rural South Carolina. While the ELCA is left leaning, they also give great autonomy to local congregations so you never quite know what you're going to find in each of our congregations but my point is we are not all left leaning and there is a conservative minority.

[@perilousrange]

Serious question for you, no shade intended... Is there a particular theological reason your congregation stays ELCA vs. another body? Inerrancy? Something else? Or is there a different reason for keeping the ELCA affiliation?

[@Michael29040]

@@perilousrange If there is one constant in the universe its that there is always somebody who replies that we should be leaving the ELCA when I write that my congregation is ELCA. There are several reasons why we stay ELCA. Each congregation can do what it wants. Within the ELCA there is a conservative movement called Radical Lutheranism which teaches a baptized person is once saved always saved (some unbaptized will also be saved but only known to God) and that we are saved from the Law (although subject to the Civil authority). We are a Radical Lutheran congregation. Radical Lutheranism is a heresy in the LCMS which holds the traditional viewpoint that a Christian can become unsaved and go to hell. We also support women pastors; we had one from 2002 to 2007 and she was awesome. It's also hard to leave the ELCA because you need two congregational votes 90 days apart. There has to be a synod representative at the congregational meetings. And after the two votes the synod council has to approve too. Nobody in my congregation wants to just walk away to a new building or location after investing their time and money over several decades. We do have our eyes set on the NALC as an emergency escape hatch if things sour between us and the synod but the synod doesn't bother us and the bishop was great working with us last year on getting us a new pastor. I know some synod bishops will hold a new pastor hostage unless the congregation bends to the bishop's will but we haven't experienced that. Almost all of us mark our offerings local church only and pastor teaches Sunday school and our Wednesday Bible classes directly. Our congregation only has about 70 people. Most of the people there are older and retired. If you came to my church you wouldn't even really know we were ELCA because we don't emphasize that. We do pray for our bishop every Sunday and it's on our website that we are ELCA.

[@perilousrange]

@@Michael29040 To be fair, I didn't suggest you leaving. I just wanted to know why you kept the affiliation, when it sounded disjoint with your stated values. I'm really not familiar with ELCA governance, but your description sounds similar to UMC, where a fair amount of top-down control exists. I am unfamiliar with Radical Lutheranism, but yes, your description does sound out of step with LCMS doctrine. I'm always interested to hear why people do what they do. (BTW, KZbin is shadowbanning your reply. I had to use a utility to see it)

[@devinmillermedia]

@@perilousrange actually ELCA gets to pick their Pastor and decide basically which way they go - but still have to give 20 percent (I believe) to the national ELCA and regional synod.

[@perilousrange]

@@devinmillermedia Are the churches independently owned? Or are they collectively owned, in the style of UMC?

[@thebaker1517]

LCMS mega churches.... 🙄 i think the reason this gentleman can be a Calvinist at Christ Lincoln is because it's not really a Lutheran Church ie., holding to the Augsburg Confession.

[@sparky4581]

Agreed, this video was rather disturbing coming from a LCMS branch. Im LCMS and never seen such.

[@perilousrange]

This video is evidence that LCMS needs to adopt more rigid and enforced standards as a body. Too much inconsistency is permitted.

[@sparky4581]

@@perilousrange your right. Maybe not rigid, but this goes way beyond being a little loose.

[@marklhuff1]

Bingo…

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

I would love to get in contact with this guy's PCUSA pastor brothers, I would assume they're theologically solid!

[@marklilly2844]

Good to see you here. Have you not had a crossover video with Keith Foskey yet?

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

@@marklilly2844 many times! We debated infant baptism and evolution

[@jrhemmerich]

As a calivinistic Baptist with a spiritual presence view of the table, I've found Jordan Cooper helpful in understanding the Lutheran take. Also, just reading the Formula of Concord is very helpful in these questions about the Lords Table and Election, as it contains both affirmations and denials. It's pretty clear that the Lutheran view of the supper's physicality is rooted in their view of the incarnation. They differ from Catholic tran-substantion in that the Aristotelian-scholastic explanation of the replacement of the bread's and wine's physical essence by Christ's essence is rejected. They are happy to say that Christ's essential presence in the bread is a mystery which is simply taught in scripture and not explained. For me it is clear that Jesus did not intend for communion to parallel the two natures of the incarnation, as he says in John 6, that those who partake of his body is a spiritual matter of believing by the Holy Spirit and not a matter of physical eating. But this is not to deny the bodily nature of the incarnation. They are just different as scripture presents them to us. We are joined to Christ as our corporate head and authority, but not in a physical way. It's understandable that the Church fathers, in emphasizing the incarnation, allowed this doctrine to bleed over into the supper, and even use this bodily view of the supper as a defense against the gnostic errors regarding Christ's person. But scripture does not equate the incarnation and the supper as one to one, so I don't think we should either. The main difference between the spiritual real presence view and the memorial view, to my mind is the idea that in the spiritual view Christ is presented to the partaker objectively in the elements, but is only received by those with faith. The idea being that there is a real God to man movement of grace to be found in the supper. The memorial view would not see God as acting through the supper as much as man remembering back to what God has done at the cross. I think the subjective work of the Spirit in all the views is the same, as the Christian is to use the supper to focus on repentance and giving thanks to God. Having the supper weekly/regularly, keeps Christ at the center, while allowing the ministry of the word to range over a wide variety of subjects. Without the supper, the ministry of the word can more easily become untethered from the central work of Christ. Thanks much for the interesting dialogue.

[@mtl98-n9g]

Or you can just read what Jesus said about what it is. And believe the simple words of Christ, “This is my body/blood.”

[@jrhemmerich]

@@mtl98-n9g, I actually do believe what Jesus said there. And nobody experiences the bread and the wine as flesh and blood, even when Jesus was present with them. We shouldn’t need to pretend that the answer is obvious when it’s clear it requires some reflection. I don’t think what I’ve said falls outside what Jesus said. And while we disagree, I’m happy to hear why a range of views should not be acceptable.

[@DutchMcGinnis]

Great interview. How amazing it is to see Calvinists sitting in pews of varying denominations. Morons call us a trojan horse but I say it was predestined :)

[@danbrown586]

Andrew's description of his church made my skin crawl. Not because of such Lutheranism as he described, but because of the "seeker-sensitive" "mega-church" he described. Put those two things together and something's going to give, and it's obvious that it's the Lutheranism. But any Calvinist worth the name would know that "seeker-sensitive church" is a contradiction in terms.

[@dianefeack57]

I grew up in the LCMS. I, too, cringe over the description of his church. Glad I left the LCMS years ago if that's the road they've taken. The music and fog machine alone would be a turn-off to me. They seem more interested in appeasing the world than worshiping a Holy God.

[@luanneneill2877]

@@dianefeack57I’m a lifelong Lutheran, 65 years, and have never encountered an LCMS church such as this. I’ve lived in the Midwest, South, and Hawaii. I always figured that if the LCMS had churches like this, it’d be in more progressive areas, like California/Southwest or the Northeast, not the Midwest!! I wouldn’t belong to a congregation such as this and think the leadership of the synod should look into this, as it seems that they’re veering off the LCMS core beliefs.

[@yellowblackbird9000]

The answer should be no, Calvinism should not be able to survive in a Lutheran church since our confessions don't allow it. Now, if a Lutheran church is allowing Calvinists to retain their Calvinistic beliefs and be members and recieve the Lord's Supper then that church is not Lutheran, even if they say they are. Imagine, a Reformed Baptist church that allowed a Roman Catholic to be a member while believing in transubstantiation and the pastor baptized the Roman Catholic's babies. You would say that this Reformed Baptist church probably isn't doing it right.

[@joelleonard8869]

Can a calvinist survive in a lutheran church? Of course......as long as that lutheran church goes against its confessions found in the Book of Concord. As a confessional lutheran, I am blessed to be a part of a congregation where the pastor loved me enough to instruct me in correct doctrine and withhold communion from me until I could say "Amen" to what the lutheran confessions teach about scripture. Clearly this guy does not believe lutheran doctrine. He doesn't even hold to what we teach about the supper. He should not be communing at a lutheran church. Very sad.

[@restoredandrecovered7380]

Based

[@danoctavian8184]

it’s interesting to see not only how our views are different, but also how both of us perceive the disagreements. Because calvinists were always more open to lutheranism and wanted union while you guys held us on seen. On both predestination as well as the supper: for you this is a question of true theology vs blasphemy, as for us is more of a deep theological understanding vs simplistic innacurate description.

[@joelleonard8869]

@@danoctavian8184 the reformed were never open to Lutheranism because they rejected, and always have rejected, the Lutheran doctrine of the supper. The reformed always want to unite with Lutherans at the expense of lutheran doctrine. When unions happen we always end up becoming less Lutheran, not the other way around. Please be assured, we want to unite and everyone is welcome at our churches. But we believe in unity of doctrine and the table is for those who are in agreement with what our confessions teach.

[@StNicholasButNotOfMyra]

Yeah this frustrates me to no end.

[@douglascolquhoun8502]

Lutherans aren't the only folks who legalisticly refuse to allow other Christians to commune with the Lord through the Supper. (Baptists, I'm looking at you.) It is too bad more people can't say, "It is our Lord's Table, NOT our denominations table. If you claim to be one of His Disciples and one of His Father's adopted sons, then join us as we all commune with God together." Any that partake unrighteously will be judged by God, not us. God DOES know His own. That we should partake of communion is what is commanded, not knowing the "metaphysical mechanics" of how it works. It works. Anything more is just theorizing, sophistry, semantics, and/or postulating.

[@unit2394]

Just watched this right after leaving a comment about having two to three sacraments on the previous video haha. The Communion issue has been interesting in my life as someone who joined the LCMS coming out of the SBC and then short stints in the PCA and ARP. Many of my friends, including many Reformed friends have visited my church and I’ve worked through the Confession of the Altar that we keep in the pews with them before service to try to ascertain whether or not they should commune. Usually the answer is no. I am also dating a very sweet Methodist girl whose father is a committed Baptist. Their church just recently left the UMC to become independent. So we’ve all had some interesting conversations as well. Funnily enough Wesley had a strong view of the saving efficacy of the Lord’s Supper, to the point where he advocated it be taken weekly or even daily if I remember correctly. She tends to be more Zwinglian though.

[@nickolascook744]

As a Lutheran I love this interview

[@steflanc]

The difference between Lutheran and Calvinists on the Lord's Supper isn't so much about the mode of Christ's presence in the bread and wine. In many of these conversations the mode of his presence is a red herring, although there are differences. The true difference is whether or not objective grace is offered in the sacrament. Lutherans believe objective grace is truly offered to anyone who receives, whereas Calvinists believe grace is only subjectively received based on one's faith. Lutherans, who reject a limited atonement, teach that anyone who receives the sacrament is truly receiving Christ offered in the sacrament. Yet, according to Lutherans, if one receives without faith, he does not receive the benefit of Christ's sacrament, although Christ was truly offered to him in the sacrament. This is because, for the Lutheran, faith receives the grace. Calvinists, on the other hand, holding to a limited atonement, teach that only those who come to the table with faith (i.e., the elect) receive the benefit of the sacrament. This leads to issues of assurance. For Lutherans, they will always point to the objective grace received in the sacrament as their assurance that they are saved, for it is faith that receives the benefit. Calvinists, because they don't believe in objective grace given in the sacrament, but rather grace is subjectively received based on one's faith, don't usually look to the sacraments as their place of assurance. This is why Luther was so strong against Zwingli that Christ is truly present in the bread and wine. Because, for Luther, if Christ is not truly present, then the grace of God is not truly offered to the one receiving. And, for Lutherans, the sacraments are the regular means whereby God saves his people. So, for Lutherans, baptism saves and the Lord's Supper delivers the body and blood of Christ. The sacraments are vehicles whereby God saves his people. Zwingli's sacramentology is entirely different. This raises the question of apostasy. For Lutherans, because they believe grace is truly offered in the sacraments, they also hold that some who were baptized (and regenerated in baptism because Lutherans confess baptismal regeneration) will apostatize from the faith and be cut off from the covenant. How can someone be regenerated through baptism and yet fall away from Christ later in life? This is a great mystery that Lutherans do not define. Working in the background of that view. Is that, for Lutherans, the elect are the ones that persevere in their faith. For the Reformed, the sacraments are not really the vehicles of God's grace. For them, it all goes back to the doctrine of election and God's eternal decree. Thus, many Calvinists, at least in my experience, reject the idea of apostasy. For them the elect will always persevere in their faith. So, if a person appears to be saved at one point in their life but falls away later in their life, the Calvinist would say that they were never truly saved to begin with, whereas the Lutheran would say that they were saved and were truly regenerated but fell away because of their own disbelief.

[@mtl98-n9g]

You missed the most important means that God uses to give faith to us. The Word. Read and preached. And in the other sacraments it is the Word that makes baptism what it is otherwise it is just plain water. The Word of God is most important to Confessional Lutherans. Luther explains this in the small catechism. And it is fleshed out elsewhere in the Book of Concord.

[@FaithRefinedByFire]

I’m a Calvinist who has been searching for a new church home since the pastor at my former small church got cancer and it had to be sold. One of the two churches we’re trying hard to choose between is a Lutheran one, so I was very interested in this topic. Turns out I’m a Husker, too, but I live in Omaha! Maybe Calvinists in Lutheran churches is a Nebraska thing! 🤷🏻‍♀️ Or maybe God predestined this interview just to help me decide! 😂 There are plenty of Reformed churches in Omaha, but we visited a Lutheran church less than a mile away and we just love it. Thanks for doing this interview. P.S. GOOOO BIIIIIG REDDDD! GO! BIG! RED!

[@bryanwalters9574]

So I’m an estate planning attorney with Lutheran leanings that attends a Presbyterian church. This is like an interview with Bizzaro me.

[@Savedbygrace22]

Sounds so different than the LCMS Rod Rosenbladt represented, no seeker sensitive garbagio. I know not all churches are the same. I learned the difference between Law and Gospel from him on The White Horse Inn radio show back in the 90’s. His podcast Talks with Dad Rod can still be helpful

[@tammywilliams-ankcorn9533]

Lutherans believe Christ died once, but he continually forgives. That’s why the Lord’s Prayer says, Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespassed against us. Forgiveness is continuous throughout our lives. This doesn’t mean Jesus is dying again. Everyday we ask forgiveness for our sins, not just once. I sin every day. Even as a former Baptist, I still confessed my sins daily, and even more so during communion, to be sure we are not to take it in an unworthy manner. That’s why Paul said some were getting sick or dying.

[@StPaulUnionville]

I hope that my fellow Lutherans who wrote to you about there being 3 sacraments instead of 2 were not cranky about it. If they were, it's only because it's a matter that's disputed among some Lutherans. Those who say that there are only 2 do not include absolution because it does not have a 'visible element' in the same way that baptism and Holy Communion do.

[@ConversationswithaCalvinist]

Most were very nice :-)😊

[@RyanOlander]

As far as Roman Catholic vs Evangelical Catholic (aka Lutheran) views on the Lord's supper: RC says that in the eucharist the host and wine lose their original substance and become the true body and Blood of Christ, but the accidents remain. To them it looks like bread and wine but it's just Jesus there. They believe in a representation (not resacrifice) of Christ's sacrifice on their behalf to the Father for the forgiveness of sins. Lutherans hold that both Christ and the elements are present in the Eucharist. It doesn't cease being bread and wine. Technically we don't hold to "physical " or "local" presence, but do proclaim that His presence in the Eucharist is Real, that thise who partake in the Supper receive Christ's True Body and True Blood. The forgiveness of sins is offered as God's gift for us, not because we present it to Him but because it is His free gift to us. As for our scruples with our reformed brethren, they make such efforts to be precise on so many areas that are not in line with our confressions, but then want to accuse us of being uncharitable or inscrutable when they want to take over our churches or worship with us. I'm glad your guest is able to enjoy being among lutherans and has the humility to recognize that his convictions prevent him from seeking or holding leadership in that church. But he also seems to have serious misunderstandings on the lutheran doctrines concerning predestination and the Eucharist, or how different they truly are on those points from the reformed.

[@brandonjackson4841]

I agree with you. I’d like to “in, under, and above” when discussing the Lord’s presence in our Eucharist. I’m in the LCMS, and our adult Bible Study just finished Luther’s “The Bondage of The Will” and we have a much deeper understanding of free will and its role in our coming to Christ. I think the guest did his best to talk about it without bogging down the discussion. What I learned from our discussion was that our “free will” is tied to the flesh and thus we can’t free choose for ourselves to believe in God. But, through the Holy Spirit all can be called, because Christ’s sacrifice was for all, but not all will answer the call. If I’m off about anything, I’m only a creature. Lol

[@williamchurch9768]

I grew up in an edgy United Methodist Church with rock bands before I became Reformed. So I was able to go through my mid-life crisis while a teenager. I submit to simple Biblical worship that asks the sinner, "What does God want in worship?" I actually enjoy grown-up church. I have noticed many young people leaving Big Eva. The sinner being sovereign seems a bit unBiblical. But I agree with strong Biblical resistance on the national front against wokism, Statism, abortion, and the like. On occasion, my wife and I go to rock concerts. We just think rock per se can be left out of worship. We are prone to the "Be still and be holy" line of worship. BTW, how does the person interviewed view Martin Luther's Bondage of the Will? May God bless the Big Eva Christians but I thank God I do not have their role in the Kingdom. The preaching pastor knowing his flock closely as a pastor seems more Biblical.

[@wescrockett3915]

I grew up Calvinist, but my family left the reformed doctrines when I was an adult. I attempted to be a Calvinist in the LCMS, but I could not in good conscience. So I removed my wife and myself from the Lutheran church.

[@wishuhadmyname]

Not sure about Lutheran churches, but Lutheran potlucks give baptists a run for our money 🍻

[@tammywilliams-ankcorn9533]

I’m a former Baptist, and I agree!

[@TheApologeticDog]

I have done two debates with a Lutheran and I have wondered this same question 😄😄

[@Mason_O]

Have you two done a show together yet?

[@tricot6468]

Only reason I reject the third sacrament of absolution is because a sacrament needs a physical element, which absolution lacks

[@devinmillermedia]

Just to be clear there are like 30 percent of people who go to a LCMS church that are liberal and about 30 percent at ELCA that are conservative. Some ELCA churches are basically just like your average LCMS church (rural mostly). And then there are people like me who don't buy into labels (we are a growing population) and don't carry water for either corrupt political party or their sponsors. Lots and lots of diversity out there. PS love you channel.

[@Ian-nm2pg]

Can you post his 6 points his church puts up when doing communion Thanks

[@christianchavez4086]

I’m an amillennialist surviving in a dispensational church. 😅

[@Jay_the_giant]

Idk how you do it. I was Amil in a dispy church and I just couldn’t do it. I joined a Reformed church that is Amil, though I’m Postmil now 😂 but I am very happy at my church.

[@christianchavez4086]

Ha ha! It’s pretty rough sometimes, but I love the people and leadership there and I guess it reminds me to have grace on those with “inferior theology” 😂. What nudged you over from amil to post? Once I detached from dispensationalism I tried to study all the different views and judge which was most consistent with clear biblical teaching. In short, the main thing that kept me from diving into post mil was the way the biblical term “age” was being defined as the “jewish age”. Seemed pretty forced. Maybe there’s a better way to understand that though. I’d be interested in hearing your perspective.

[@Jay_the_giant]

@@christianchavez4086 it wasn’t one thing in particular. It was just sort of a tota scriptura approach towards God’s overarching plan of redemption, conceptualizing what it means for Christ to be the Savior of the world, God’s heart for His creation according to scripture, etc. It also helped to read Keith Mathison and Kenneth Gentry, and listen to Jeff Durbin’s series through Matthew 24 and other texts, and wrestle with their arguments through scripture.

[@christianchavez4086]

Thanks for sharing that, Jay. I have read Gentry’s short book on the Olivet Discourse and listened to some of Durbin’s teachings on Matt 24. They are both great communicators. I still have some unanswered questions that would prevent me from embracing that eschatology but I’ll keep digging and see where I land in 10 years. Ha ha! God bless you, bro.

[@Jay_the_giant]

@@christianchavez4086 you as well brother

[@Ldgreggbell]

I was pretty much in a reformed church before joining a Lutheran church in Australia. The Lutheran church I go to at LCA looks like a non-denomational but they've kept the sacraments. People turn up in surf shorts, and flip flops, but hey it's Australia.

[@lc-mschristian5717]

I was a Calvinist for about 20 years and became a Lutheran (LCMS). THANKS BE TO GOD.

[@20020x]

What is the issue with PCA?

[@nickspitzley8539]

I've heard that the real spiritual presence view of reformed theology isn't good enough, and they will fence us from the table.

[@mtl98-n9g]

Because it isn’t. We use the term Sacramental Union with how Christ’s body and blood is with, in and under the elements. Spiritual presence is not the same thing. So yes we absolutely should be fencing the table for your sake.

[@thechristianworldviewpodcast]

I don't know if it's just me, but I can't hear anything from the video

[@TheodenEdnewDoesDnD]

He can be converted yet, join the Lutheran side. We sometimes have cookies, and often have coffee.

[@perilousrange]

That's a strange way to spell "beer".

[@sparky4581]

Lol i didn't say anything but i thought the same thing when you said two sacraments. Some say only 2 others say three.

[@andrewsimpson311]

Lutheran's have Schrödinger's Sacrament, which results in an average of 2.5 total sacraments.

[@andrewsimpson311]

I don't think Calvin would've bridged the gap between Luther and Zwingli. The problem is a christological one, which is why Calvin said that Jesus had to go through a window in the locked upper room of the disciples, not just appearing.

[@muellerjac]

Marburg Colloquy 1529, John Calvin was born in 1509

[@shaunboen4023]

You are like a nicer version of Doug Wilson. Yep, I said it.

[@RyanOlander]

To be fair, having basic human decency makes one nicer that Doug Wilson.

[@Isaac556x45]

Just a request if you have the time. Can a Reformed Baptist survive in a Reformed Presbyterian church? I don't wanna baptize them babies!

[@ConversationswithaCalvinist]

That would be a good followup. Thanks!

[@Isaac556x45]

@@ConversationswithaCalvinist And thank you as well!

[@williamchurch9768]

Yes. Presbyterians are Full Baptists. They baptize babies, youth, and adults. They are not afraid of wet babies...except the diaper situation cases. And you don't have to baptize the babies. That's the pastor's job. And you do not have to support infant baptism to be a member of a local congregation. You just can't agitate against it or become an ordained officer.

[@Isaac556x45]

​@@williamchurch9768I don't wanna baptize them babies because it's unbiblical, not because I'm too lazy to do it, you misunderstand.

[@simeonyves5940]

Given that, Outside of Infant Baptism vs Adult Baptism, where there is Conflict, the 1646 Westminster Confession and the 1689 Second London Confession are *90% Identical* , I would say yes, very much so! A solid Presbyterian Church will be more than willing to give a Believer who holds to Credobaptism a Full Immersion Adult Baptism.

[@thechristianworldviewpodcast]

Okay audio is fine.

[@ConversationswithaCalvinist]

Thanks bro. I’ve had it happen a few times. May have something to do with the processing in YT’s side.

[@thechristianworldviewpodcast]

@@ConversationswithaCalvinist btw I am a christian podcaster here in the Philippines. I am actually interested in inviting you to my show, we can talk about calvinism. I'm a calvinist too. How will I be able to contact you brother?

[@Mason_O]

What about images? Some Lutherans have images of Christ around or anything?

[@danoctavian8184]

Probably they have images

[@RyanOlander]

We are ok with the presence of icons, not with veneration/ invocation of the saints.

[@tammywilliams-ankcorn9533]

Stained glass and pictures are okay, just not praying to them.

[@huskyrobusto1076]

I'm sure this "Lutheran" church has none of the usual Lutheran distinctives....because it's not legit Lutheran.

[@rubebouch1715]

People forget that overall Luther was pretty Catholic.

[@mtl98-n9g]

We and Luther argues that the Confessional Lutheran church is the Historic catholic church and that Rome is the church that left the true church and is in error.

[@luanneneill2877]

I’m a lifelong (65 yrs.) Lutheran and have always looked at it like Luther threw out the bathwater (bad theology) when it came to the Catholic church, leaving the true church, while the other theologians threw out both the baby and the bathwater, resulting in all the other denominations. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@edwardstarnes6832]

That is called crypto calvinism expressed in vii and viii of the formula of concord.

[@johnrutavičius4580]

Christ Lincoln, Nebraska is not Lutheran, and if the LCMS was willing or able to exercise any discipline, they would be expelled.

[@lc-mschristian5717]

This is NOT A CONFESSION LUTHERAN. If he thinks he is Lutheran is is deceived.

[@perilousrange]

Harbor Freight Doug is Best Doug.

[@LutheranSage]

Keith... This brother was well spoken and certainly likeable but...this really does not accurately represent 95% of LCMS churches. Not in worship style, size, or its beliefs or teachings on doctrinal issues like predestination, free will, etc. And BTW... Calvin was 20 in 1529 when the Marburg Colloquy took place and was not invited to attend that meeting as suggested. He wasn't really even known or active in the Reformation at that time. Enjoy your videos though!

[@douglasgates9877]

Ne Obliviscaris

[@garrettfornea1088]

Not this Calvinist. Lutherans believe that baptism can contribute to regeneration. Major red flag.