Can A New Edition Save Warmachine? | Warmachine Mk4 Discussion | Miniature Gaming News & Reviews

#Warhammer40k #warmachine
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[@TacticalTortoise]

Some clarification I got on the Prime (limited)/Unlimited (legacy) format distinction: EVERY existing faction in the game will have options in the Prime format upon release, so the limited format won't just be for new Mk4 factions. What gets added for the existing factions is TBA and will probably be along the lines of specific theme forces, but they will all be playable in limited events.

[@dominicmetzger3246]

I hope so. Gw needs competition as they’ve gotten incredibly lazy. Warmachine was huge in 6th Ed 40k because that was by far the worst rules writing we have seen. Which got them to dump it and eventually make 8th.

[@DeeperWithDiego]

Lazy? You must not have been a GW customer from the 90s and 2000s where it would take 10 years to update many codexes. Nowadays, you literally cannot go one week without something new getting released or rules being updated. GW is currently on crack cocaine and meth. Ain't nothing lazy going on here. Not to mention from roughly 1998 until 2015, GW stopped pushing their specialist games and abandoned most of them entirely. Today there are, what, 15 specialist games going on with models constantly being updated for them?

[@beefstewiscool]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 pp will never compete against gw. This is a latch ditch effort to not kill off warmachine where they just send you miniatures they 3d print.

[@flameknightdragon]

@@beefstewiscool well PP used to compete against gw in the MK2 days in term of sells. MK3 onward killed it.

[@jamieseddon3466]

Gw can afford to Be as lazy ad they want because the fan base are hard core even if they are disgruntled with gw they’ll stick with them rather than switch to another game lol

[@beefstewiscool]

@@flameknightdragon no, no they didn't. Pp themselves admit this isn't true. You're going off of random data provided by shop owners for a list that wasn't close to accurate.

[@zacnewman7140]

The problem with theme forces wasn't so much that you _had_ to use them, it was that you got enough free points for doing so that it made it a significant disadvantage to play out-of-theme. You could totally still build a list with your entire collection if you wanted, but you could be starting a game ten to fifteen points down. And the othe major problem was that some theme lists gave you those free points for things you were taking anyway while others did not, and there wasn't any correlation between how good a caster was and how much of their theme force was things they wanted. The community might have been more accepting of themes if good casters like Gaspy2 or Hailey1 consistently got themes that required units they wouldn't be taking anyway while low-tier casters like Naaresh or Darius got themes that helped bring their power up a bit. In a lot of cases the opposite of that happened, so it felt like themes did the opposite of what they were intended to do and hurt the overall game balance.

[@TheRoark]

As someone who got into wargaming with Warmachine, I wanted desperately for my fears to be assuaged by mk4. The combination of old model invalidation (a necessary but still brutal decision), 3D printed models that cost the same as GW plastic, no cheap starter set, and incredibly slow release window just mean it isn’t enough to get me back into the game. As cool as magnetized jacks sound, it just isn’t going to resurrect the community in my area.

[@zeno6111753]

I agree, its very brutal. Yet, I still like it. While I it won't be easy to sell those models. I can at least put a lot of those in the basement and look at whatever models I still have that is valid. During Mk2 I got a lot of my moneys worth, it was a great time time for Warmachine players, although I'm the first to admitt that some pieces (like Haley) needed a re-work for the health of the game. Yet it was a glorious time that I remember with great fondness. It kept you on your toes, and awarded you for thinking outside of the box. Very brutal for beginners though.

[@jonathansiegel3140]

I looked through the beta test stat cards. They show the wargear options for the warjacks in the 2 new starter boxes. Each army has 1 light and 1 heavy warjack, and each warjack has 4 head options with different rules and 4 left and 4 right arms with different weapons. They say the new boxes come with magnets as well. I don't know how big of an impact it will have, but it may reduce the number of warjacks and warbeasts in each army. Assuming each army has the same makeup, they will each have 1 heavy and 1 light with options. They did release information on the first 2 starter armies and say they are coming out in October.

[@Sryth004]

With Gencon being next week, Expect to see a bigger announcement. Privateer Press has also been a big presenter at Gencon even in the slow Mark 3 years. I was an avid Mark 1 and 2 player and a Press Ganger at one point. A lot of effort goes into the Gencon release/show. You are right though putting it into a very week Primecast is a little odd.

[@5p3cu10]

I don't think it will. I think PP has multiple issues to contend with now. 1) there are MANY, incredibly well developed and cheap skirmish style games on the market now. 2) they have a poor reputation to compete with. 3) people fell out of the game for a multitude of reasons that a new edition will not overall address. 4) all of those minis that are released now need to be playable or it risks disenfranchising current players. These are a few of the issues I thin they face. Making rules free isn't an insta-win. I still need to want to buy into your company and PP are incredibly expensive.

[@zacnewman7140]

4 has already been addressed. They're including at least two of the new "Prime Armies" built out of legacy per existing faction, and the plan is to have rules for _every_ existing model for the Unlimited format. They're admitting up front that Unlimited is going to take a while and will never be as well balanced as the Armies will be, but your old models are still going to be legal in at least one format. I suspect what you'll see (provided Mk IV succeeds) is folks bringing an otherwise legal Prime army and asking for permission to run it with an Unlimited 'caster.

[@machcrafts]

Played a mk4 game with a friend yesterday with the new stuff. Still feels like warmachine, but is much quicker, dynamic, and brutal. Only time will tell with how they handle it, but it felt incredibly good on the table. Units are very fast and impactful, even at smaller sizes, and not having requisition options shrinks lists even further, so games will be quicker.

[@jamieseddon3466]

Most games were 2 hours anyway so much shorter than a 40k game lol

[@wayneshepherd1843]

For me it started right from the start of 3rd ed when they decided to sell the cards and then the app came out and you had to buy the deck again, changing the rules all the way through third ed and ridiculous updates I pretty well decided I was going to get out of Warmachine and had decided to sell my entire Menoth collection. Thinking of a complete overhaul of my tabletop games altogether, I found and of this news and now I am hoping this will reinvigorate my passion of this game 😁

[@tuffn00gies]

Loved mk 1 & 2. Support for the games died in my area as soon as mk 3 hit the shelves. I'm cautiously optimistic for mk 4. I like that they're rolling both games into one and the changes sound good overall.

[@Brendolf]

I'm excited to see what will happen here. Can I finally catch the dragon that was MK2 Warmahordes?

[@zeno6111753]

One can only hope. Mk2 was the peak of Warmachine. Mk3 had better rules (after a while), but the lore, themelistbonanza and obvious new model power creep was horrible. A lot of talent jumped ship a short while after the Mk3 release, and they were stuck with lack-of-talent. Lets hope they got some new fresh talent in the company now :)

[@TacticalTortoise]

God I hope so 🤣

[@JonathanSirico]

I hope Mark4 is a huge hit. I have a giant Troll army, circle army and a small Menorh Army I would love to off load 2 of them but haven't been able to as their is zero demand right now.

[@GreyHunter88]

Unfortunately a huge portion of the model range will no longer be usable, so MkIV might not be the solution you were hoping for.

[@JonathanSirico]

@@GreyHunter88 uuhhhhh....so many trolls in cases in the attic...

[@KnightsofTitan]

Man I use to be the death jack guy back in the day. Miss my little chicken jacks

[@boredcryptek5513]

I want competition for GW and after I finish my pile of shame I intend to migrate to new games. I love the aesthetic of Warmachine but honestly after listening to these while it still is tempting I think I may at least start with Malifaux and see how this edition goes.

[@flameknightdragon]

well get ready since starter products for MK4 are $200. and the only way to get new models is from $175 expansion packs you will need to buy more then one of

[@boredcryptek5513]

@@flameknightdragon Well fortunately I think Malifaux is a little cheaper and I will be starting there.

[@theworldsays4264]

The game has beta rules and cards already out. Try the game with some proxies and see if you like it.

[@paulletherby9580]

Great video, I played warmachine for years but like you left in MK3. I feel exactly like you said. We definitely think the same. I playing 40k at the moment, it has gone a bit stale, but still enjoying it. I hope warmachine really comes back, but like you sceptical

[@graefx]

Warmachine was my wargaming gate way. I jumped in for Mk1 when Black reach and skull pass were on the shelves. GW was prohibitively expensive and ostensibly evil. But warmahordes offered a more accessible and community driven alternative. Mk2 had its rocky parts but was an overall improvement. List building was fun, you didnt need a pile of dice to play, and was fairly understandable. The biggest downside compared to 40k was the lack of personalization and the RPG aspect. No real way to make your own warcaster and troops, you were controlling named characters. The Ram was a GenCon mainstay and went full warmahordes tie in every year. The PP both always had a cool limited edition sculpt. Money in college was tight so I had to drop hobbies. I looked back into it during covid when 40k had it's surge and could find nothing. I found some warcaster stuff in a clearance bin and got told the game was basically dead. I hope mk4 is a revival and has another mainstream alternative to GW.

[@madosx9903]

I started playing warmachine with the second edition (Best game I have ever played) and ended playing warmachine during their third edition, but I realy hope the new edition rocks. (I am pumped)

[@dustiespring6591]

Honestly as a MK2 player myself, and having gone through the information myself (which I suggest most to do as there are a few… mistakes in the video) I’m actually very excited! While yes, model selection is being “limited” MK4 is adding in custom spells selection, customization for jacks (64 different combination per jack), and also adding essentially “mini feat” cards that you will choose a handful of which will also add customization to your army. Also for those worried about starter set vs GW start… PP is making all rules free to access, the starter box is an actually supported play level, and no additional cost will be needed to play at what I’m expecting to be a common point level. From what I know of GW you need about 1000 points (which is at least two starter sets usually at $110/set or so? some are lucky and only need one… but not many of those ), the rule book (granted if you’ve got a friend with one you can get around but otherwise is around $80), and a codex / battle tome (another $55-65)… however that’s for 1000 points… which I think average or common play for most GW is actually closer to 1500-2000… soooo… yeah

[@kellyhoesing2573]

The old $50 warmachine boxes got me into Miniature Gaming. Unfortunately it was right as everyone flooded back to Warhammer. Timing!

[@ghillieguy52]

would love to see a comeback it was the first wargame i played

[@drpretzel2086]

I’m curious to see where this new edition goes and me and my older brother have gotten into warmachine in the last year.

[@KaptajnCongoboy]

Well, looks like it did. Convention attendance up, sales up, numbers of tournaments and events up and new people coming in.

[@thelonelybolter8245]

you cover any game you want! I'm here for it :D

[@TheBicycleSpoke]

This video was very helpful. Thanks for the past information about how the game changed over time

[@KyleHM09]

I love this game. For me, it will never be dead.

[@zacheryredden5417]

I fell off pretty early during Mk3 but very excited for Mk4. Honestly the game sounds fun but even more the announcement felt transparent and honest. They've definitely got an uphill battle but I'm going to try and help them climb it!

[@benreddin3408]

Pulling my menoth out of storage, excited that one of the prime armies is exemplars, since that was the look that drew me to the army back in mk 2

[@mikefish1124]

Honestly, what you describe as a negative for this announcement is one of my favorite things about it. I like the long article, I like the no-flash, no-bullshit nature of it. I don't need big flashy graphics - I would rather have the lengthy transparency of the announcement that they did. I rather like them describing how they came to this decision, the different options they considered. This is going to sound like a shot at you, and others, so I do apologize, but...the big superficial animated announcements are for people with short attention spans. I want to know what's going on, and how PP approached this is something I would like to see with other companies. Don't blow smoke up my ass, just tell me what's going on, and why it's going on.

[@tnterica4599]

Thank you so much for covering this. Our community is super excited for a new edition of the game and the soft reset incoming, which will level the playing/skill field for our group without having to jump to a brand new IP. We're also really excited for some of the cross game discussions going on with our neighboring wargaming friends and groups. Overall Warmachine has a pretty great community and we're super hyped to invite more people into the fold. I produce bat reps for the KZbin channel, Tried & True Warmachine. We just started filming some MK4 beta bat reps that should be up on the channel in a week or so. We also display rules throughout videos to help newer players and keep track of what is going on in the game. If you or any of your viewers were curious about some of the new rules and flow, I'd welcome you to check us out. Thanks again for covering the MK4 announcement!

[@softlightsymphonyband]

I have a lot of good memories of Warmachine: Matt Wilson sent me two starter boxes to use for demos when I was a retail store owner in the early days of the first edition of the game and supply issues had prevented stores from getting ahold of it. We also ran perhaps the first Warmachine tournament in the country(The Rivet Rampage) in those early days drawing close to 30 players in the New England area. They are smart to embrace 3D printing because in 5-10 years NOBODY will be buying physical models from game companies. NOBODY. Getting in front of the inevitable and offering dues customers can print is the most exciting part of this announcement tbh.

[@grandroyal1234]

See this would be wonderful but at the current point of this video and when I just looked at the app, my army, the cephalyx, are no where to be seen. I don't mind changing factions but I would still like to use my previous faction. Hopefully they get pulled through and I can start playing them again.

[@chromacypher8409]

I fell out in MK2, where I was able to play Mercs with other faction add ins. MK3 complicated that, so my wife and I haven't played for some time. Which is a shame as we both love high fantasy/steampunk.

[@joshuahollowell9170]

really like this format, and excited to try out mk4!

[@ladytremere85]

Thanks for going over this. I starting with wargaming with MarkIII, and I did enjoy it... but Warhammer is easier to learn. I'm hoping MIV bring me back to it. My Circle army is sad (and gathering dust).

[@grumhelden]

Warmahordes used to be *the* game where I am, literally was playing multiple games a week with tournaments and events every month within reach, I dearly, dearly wish it would bounce back but the world has changed, the real one, not the one in the game :D

[@ArchmageNiles]

They have specified that the Prime format will feature a couple armies from each of the legacy factions. It’s unclear what that will entail yet, but it’s not just new models in Prime or everything in Unlimited. I’m pretty excited for a Prime format with that in mind, but will see how things end up shaking out.

[@beefstewiscool]

Eh, problem is the two legacy armies per faction will never see updates again, or produced again at a certain point. It's just a hold over to try and keep people happy. Mk4 armies will be what you want to truly compete after a while.

[@ArchmageNiles]

Yeah, it’s clear the legacy stuff is being deprecated. It seems like a reasonable approach.

[@beefstewiscool]

@@ArchmageNiles to be honest, I take no issue with basically rebooting the game. I do take issue where the claim is being made unlimited will be supported alongside prime, even with pp hosted events. Every attempt pp, and most attempts by other companies to take this approach fails. Warmachines playerbase is so small now it also seems to be a poor decision to want to support two systems. I don't know, I just don't think the way mk4 is being handled will actual solve pps issues other than sku bloat

[@flameknightdragon]

@@beefstewiscool and with how PP has been the power creep will make those old legacy armies dead in the water. within the fist year or 2.

[@zacnewman7140]

12:00 1) The new Prime armies will be legal in Unlimited play. In fact, since they have the faction keywords you might be able to mix-and-match between the new Storm Legion and the old Cygnar models in Unlimited. 2) Every existing faction will get at least two Prime Armies built from the old ranges, so returning players with extensive collections can jump in to the new Mk IV Prime format without buying anything.

[@ryanweaver3348]

Sounds like they are adding the random "fun" of riot quest, and the facing, squad movement, and cards of that "warmachine in the future" game that I forget the name of...

[@jonathansiegel3140]

I could be wrong, but it looks like there will be about 5 starter sets for each of those 3 factions over the next year. It seems like an odd way of releasing.

[@alukemckool]

One year later any updated opinions on app or game?

[@luisrivero7975]

So the only question is are you going to play swans again?

[@h.s.lafever3277]

expanding the ranges, and including massed infantry would make it so us here would buy it, so we wouldnt have to depend upon house rules...

[@fateweaver9]

I had a lot of fun with Mk2, I didn't play many games of Mk3, but kept track of the game while it crashed. I hope Mk4 will be fun, but having a massive Hordes army doesn't fill me with confidence.

[@scatterthewinds3126]

Mk3 was so bad our entire group moved to Kings of War, which is an absolutely phenomenal game system, although granted not for fans of skirmish games. I don't think we're going back to try Mk4.

[@cruelmole]

How much of mk3 did you play?

[@LuisJimenez-pb3ge]

I’ll be honest, I’m subscribing to your channel just in hopes that I’ll see more Warmachine content

[@mortthepirate6318]

I know MK3 was really... divisive with the fan base. But just knew that if the new edition didn't work out, you guys will always have a home over here with us weird malifaux kids.

[@MMMayhem]

I'm hype

[@KrullMaestaren]

Sounds like they really is experiencing tough times. I wonder what kind of 3d-prints they plan to do? If resin, what mix? There exist mediums to make models more flexible and less fragile but haven't tried them myself. Interesting but wish that they had been a bit more creative with the whole 3d-printing angle.

[@MadSpaceWolfDiary]

They should just sell license to commerical print to gamestores or print farms. That would eliminate many logistical / distribution problems that have always plagued them.

[@theworldsays4264]

Whatever industrial size 3d printers use. The important part is it easily put a small plant in say Australia, and sell them at the geographic region pricing for domestic goods.

[@JP-vr7od]

I gave up on privateer press when they were fundraising for Black Lives Matter as cities were burning. Just my feeling. But for those that still play, I hope they make an awesome new version for you.

[@jacobl3617]

Sadly I will be watching from the side lines as the prices are high and very little in terms of the games core problems seem addressed.

[@truckstation527]

It looks AWESOME!!!!! Prime does allow select legacy units. I’m hugely looking forward to unlimited play which is old school style non theme with both new and old models

[@Dntbehasty]

you ever get around to playing a game of MK4? cant find it on your channel

[@verathorn1556]

I'm not sure about the statement that previous editions were balanced around a warcaster assassination. I always found it felt like unearned cheating when I won that way not to mention it not making any sense that soldiers would just give up and die because one officer died.

[@fateweaver9]

If all of the killer death robots in your army suddenly shut down because your general capable of doomsday magic just died, it might be prudent to be somewhere else.

[@MadSpaceWolfDiary]

I was initially upset about some of the changes, i mean still am, but some changes are nice. I will miss facing and many aoe shenanigans. Although I'm happy about 3d interaction coming back with terrain. As i hated the neoprene board game feel. The movement doesn't bither me so much, heck 3rd ed got so bad it may as well have been warhammer fabtasy with the battle lines. On the fence about custimizations.

[@tedbuchanan2143]

I never sold my army at all

[@ghrey8282]

I am an entirely casual player. The hard core competition aspect was, and is, totally uninteresting to me.

[@alessiogiuffrida6172]

Good changing in mk4: the fact you can select the spells you need for your warcaster (let's see how that is applied) Bad changing in mk4: objectives are contested in the same way as before, the forced pushing of warcasters forward to avoid giving vp to the enemy and the fact you keep win the game only when a certain difference in VPs are met, this cause the Caster kill to be the best and unique way to end the match quickly

[@Nevets1073]

As a former PG I was interested in this announcement but I was immediately let down by how it was announced and the changes they've announced so far. I am likely to try it, but unlikely to invest as I did before.

[@kaibe5241]

Na man, the updated movement is awesome. I play warcaster as well, it works really well and is super fast.

[@ChrisLovesComics]

Way of the swan the sequel?!?! Round up the gang!

[@robertviscomi8199]

I tried to learn this game with a group of dudes. I got shit on so unreal hard and stomped across them that I put the game down and never went back to it. It died locally. Now it’s just 40k and aos.

[@TacticalTortoise]

Yeah the learning curve of that game is real Tbf it doesn't help that practically the only remaining player base are hard-core competitive players who have been practicing for 15 years lol. Game needs new blood

[@andrewhannagan2019]

That was exactly my experience I had played MK1, but really got into it with Hordes and was super excited by MK3 as my eldest wanted to play we built and painted a Starter each and then proceeded to get annihilated by the community.

[@robertviscomi8199]

@@andrewhannagan2019 yeah. When I teach people aos or warcry or kill team I’m super duper casual and just for laughs and fun and I break it down. That community just slaughtered me didn’t break down why they chose units or anything. It’s a shame. I really loved the rule set and models.

[@jasonsiegel3869]

Uuummm... Hey, at roughly 9 min and 30 seconds you mention "Sculpts that are 20 or 30 years old"... Ok, not that I have a horse in this race, but... Warmachine (Mk1) released in 2004... I remember this well, because for my 30th birthday my wife bought me all 4 starter boxes that were available...(she didn't know which one I'd like) To this day I still have a Metric-Ton of Metal WarJacks.. but only from the Khador faction. I actually stopped playing at Mk 3 because I wasn't happy with the way the rules were set.. to much "Pre-Measuring" and not enough adaptability when making a skirmish group.. that and the points totally changed, took it from being a great skirmish to basically "Steampunk-Grindark"... So... Anyway, best of luck Privateer Press, but if I wanted to get Fu¢k3D I'd stick around with "James"-Workshop... So far the only game company I'm even remotely happy with is Corvus Belli (Infinity) and Atomic Mass Games with the Marvel Crisis Protocol game.. But everyone is entitled to enjoy what they will.. I will always look back to 2004-2006 with great reverence to WarMachine.. Thank you for the great video.. Jason

[@isawaryokage]

I've been playing warmachine for about a decade now, I don't mind most changes, specially because I do feel like PP had to do something and the game was really bloated modelwise, specialy mercenary solos. The change I dislike the most is the movement of units. I've tested a few things, and its super abusable and having smaller units makes it even easier to fit all units after a massive charge threat (like cavalry) and teleporting the rest of the models past a screen that can be open super easily, it's not good... Unit movement was fine has it was. Also Execution mode is completely broken for most warlocks.

[@clintonkenn6839]

Tier lists being the best choice and killing list design was why the Boys left the game, I left due to lack of players in my little area.

[@cfrka114]

Holy crap i clicked on this and to my surprise its Trevy! (it's frka)

[@TacticalTortoise]

JOANNE!

[@maximumdt5084]

Selling me 8 decks of 3rd edition cards only to slowly invalidate them over time was what ended it for me. Still have all my minis though. 👍

[@melgibsonafter5beers626]

Bruh, if a few dollars in cards ended it for you but not anything else that happened... you should have your brain donated to science.

[@karlhorvath3882]

I doubt they have the money to do the things the way you want, which is large advertising and fast release schedule. The low key way they announce and do releases reads they are limited in budget in a big way. Also not sure if this was intended but you make it sound like a very quick and simple to make 3D models and print them to quality.

[@raymondharnack4160]

Playing out of theme and being 20 army points down was not an option and that felt bad.

[@TAVAAR7]

GW heyday was 6/7ed fantasy and 4/5ed 40k, after that they got stupid with core and army rules so I went to warmahordes in mk2. Man that was a good time, I was at they're hometown Lock and Load convention the last 2 years of mk2 (the latter year was also mk3 release) and I had a gut feeling it was going to change everything for the worse seeing as I'd already been through the same thing with GW. I hope good things for PP, but I hope they go back to the roots of a solid and tight system of the games core rules and mechanics and don't go overboard with bloat. Oh, and getting rid of the Press Gangers didn't help their marketing and intro to getting new blood into the game. From what I'm hearing of mk4 I'm not thrilled...but hey, worse case scenario I can back play mk2 with friends like we do with 7th fantasy, 4.5ed 40k...and Battlefleet Gothic and Battletech have stayed basically the same.

[@TheDeliciousMystery]

i feel like the unanimous sentiment i've seen in tabletop circles is that after MK3 kind of flopped the leadership at PP has been desperately trying some angle after another, abandoning the last at a moments notice, desperate for anything to be a hit to get them out of what most assume is some borderline bankruptcy situation. This reveal doesn't really seem to have inspired confidence with the warmahordes diehards i know and seems more to have given them a feeling they describe as "probably the last gasp attempt for PP to be the american GW it should never have aimed to be". Which is a little ironic given i've not seen GW's reputation amongst players this bad since the Kirby era with bloat, fomo, power creep and lack of balance being at the worst its been since 6th edition 40k while burning all the goodwhile AoS 2nd had to boot. Maybe thats given PP the feeling its the best time to gamble?

[@joox7364]

everyone always complains about GW but they're still so popular. i dont get it..

[@kosmosfantasias7545]

@@joox7364 People hated GW but not the 40k. GW holds the IP for it. The lore is what brought people to 40k.

[@ArnoVdVelde]

Get rid of theme forces, but kind of make them mandatory? Not great! I am also really surprised how long it takes to get the factions out. Especially curious about the combo they decided on. Cryx being absent seems big. I will say, cyriss getting a redo might make them less terrible to me. Then again, I don't think the orgoth look like much, which I would previous have been pretty excited for to see. So, I don't get this thing were you can't kill the warcaster. You will still be able to get to them in general and if you lose them you will be down very significantly, so I am not sure if you can a ctually use your warcaster more, or more up front. You s till need to protect them and use them sparingly. The focus and spells and abilities is too valuable.

[@cruelmole]

As much as folks slate mk3 it was actually the best and most balanced that the game has ever been. The launch was rocky and full of mistakes, no debate. But they were ironed out fairly quickly and since then it's been incredible. MK2 was absurdly unbalanced in comparison. The issues were the lack of marketing, good starter sets and supply chain issues. Mk4 is extremely worrying to me.

[@RumorsofWAAAGH]

Privateer Press needs to embrace 3d printing, selling .stl files along side models will reduce the strain on their supply chain.

[@junibug6790]

Privateer already announced they're turning to 3D printing in order to alleviate theur crippling supply issues.

[@revanruler6404]

Honestly i'm afraid it's going to be dead on arrival, i love the setting and models but 3d printed resin that cost as much or more than gw plastic? The cheapest entry boxset costing 200 bucks? That just doesn't appeal to me sadly

[@goreshadetube]

My red flag was the limited range of new models. I was tentatively curious until I went looking for the new Cryx models. The should have had army boxes for the original four factions ready at launch.

[@matthewmalovich64]

Im….. going to wait for judgement until I see game play. Feels like MK.4 will be more of a Warmachine: Crisis Legion type of game. I guess we’ll see what happens

[@theworldsays4264]

Why wait, beta rules are out and cards. Proxy a game, see if you want to date or hate.

[@battlebarn6336]

Lack of painted armies and bubbly model style was the biggest thing pushed me away from the syster

[@jahpocalypse]

if the mechs still look like anime robot gorillas it will not be saved

[@haydencmacdonald]

Pretty painful way to go about it. We have a relatively small, but keen pool of Warmahordes players, playing effectively MK3.5, which is still a complicated game, but a huge improvement over the early MK3 days, to be sure. I've often said i'd be keen for the game to be made a bit more new player friendly, as it can be frustrating to learn, so the idea of changing to a new ruleset is just fine by me. It's that release schedule that worries me. Most of us play hordes, and don't really want to be buying whole new armies unless the new models are just too awesome to resist. Anything that makes our current armies ineffective/unplayable might be a killer though, and we're not going to be in much of a position to welcome any newbies that this might just bring, since our armies might be a bit of a mess. I get that maybe this abruptly making old models relegated to their own category worked for AOS in the end, but they had a lot more players...

[@haydencmacdonald]

Newbies are likely to find themselves playing in Unlimited mode with prior players too, since that's what most will have regarding model collection. Excited for new rules, concerned that there's a relegation of old models to a different format at the same time, (and even that coming over the course of a year or more?). Worried we'll lose more players than we gain due to gaps in playability, and that'd suck. Hoping for best, of course!

[@MaskedRiderChris]

I found the theme forces idea to be terribly limiting in a bad way--I came up on MK 2 and being able to make up lists as I saw fit. I mean, really, practically every one of those Cygnar theme lists were pushing those Trencher Infantry units for all they were worth, and making you have to buy 3 of them to get one solo for free? Oooooh, snazzy. (he said sarcastically) The explanation of why they did what they did doesn't help any. Not to mention? I get it, magnetized jacks and all, big whoop, but you know what? Those starter sets are going to be in GW territory, price wise, and with the current economy? I'd rather get my stuff on eBay and find people who are happier playing MK 2 rules edition WarmaHordes. They lost me in MK 3 and I'm none too keen on this edition, either.

[@daoakboy8747]

I started Warmachine in the beginning a buddy of mine got a job making models for PP so talked our group into trying it out. I started to loose love with Hordes, then the push to use 2D terrain just killed the look of the game. I have a buddy who owns 4 now useless armies. I now own a useless army. This is going to piss off the legacy players.

[@theworldsays4264]

Why, I have a bunch of models at least some of my stuff will enter the Prime timeline and there is Unlimited Arena where I can still use all my stuff.

[@wolfinstedd]

I’m alway internet in what rivals to GW are doing invasion to they steam.

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

WMH used to be my favourite game. I started in late MKI. It was broken AF, but stil very fun. MKII fixed a lot of it's issues and I realy loved it, than came MKIII... Main rule set promised a lot of improvment, unfortunately it was not all for the best. A lot of balance rules arose, "theme lists" one of the worst offenders. Istead of playing your faction it was compartmentalised into sub themes. You could stil play normal army, but you got a lot for going with a theme. Extra rules, free points... Not all themes were supported equaly to add even more problems. I loved the ability to build flexible lists and adapting to meta changes. Thinkering was something I loved and I stil own a crapton of models. Unfortunately huge collection of old models gave me little competitvely as power creep was getting more and more real...

[@raymondharnack4160]

I really enjoyed WM when it first released. I played WM first it was my first war game But, their quality control got really bad and models really started showing their age. But when you get a model with mold lines so bad you spent more time fixing those than assembly…. It got real f***in gold after a while. MK3 was pretty trash too.

[@kaibe5241]

Disagree. Warjack/warbeast customisation is MASSIVE. Why? You buy ONE unit, and you have access to 3. It's fucking awesome. Other than warcaster no other game does that.

[@Otterpawp]

Nothing like a times new roman with emphatic pauses in a trailer to get you hyped. I don't think Warmahordes can be revived in the way they'd want and it be successful. There is so much competition now and with 3D printing now being more and more common in the hobbyspace the not-attracted-to-lore driven communities want light rules and model agnostic games. Warmachine's rules are so incredibly well done and tight it doesn't invite casual play and it loses to casual players, at least in my experience. I couldn't get any of my friends into Warmahordes, like you said, the rules had a steep learning curve, and imo it almost enforces competitive play which often constricts pacing. Now with Legion and MCP out, those same friends that could not be bothered with warmachine are obsessed with those games and games like Stargrave/Frostgrave.

[@x.davidwilliams83]

Huzzah

[@WillMauz]

PP needs to get their head outta their keyster

[@EloquentTroll]

As a Butcher 3 enjoyer, I am utterly unaffected ny execution move and yet I still find it stupid.

[@UnkaStunka]

Im positive to this and I belive it will get a big up swing, the price tag is worth it to me and people I have spoken with.

[@justinerickson282]

They could have saved mk3 if they didnt get full of themselves

[@Kallistosprom]

Played 2nd edition and really enjoyed it. Then 3rd came out and hated every game. Horrible balancing issues, especially points.

[@cameronrich2160]

MK3 killed warmachine for me. I got back into 40k for 8th edition. 9th edition killed my love for the game so now I’m back to playing warhammer fantasy 6th edition. There is literally nothing that could bring me back to warmachine.

[@kennethfharkin]

I played a ton of Mk2 and have a very sizable Khador force. Mk3 did next to nothing for me. I bought the cards and a few small items but then walked away. Now it all sits in foam in the corner of my basement. I was already turned off by PP with their treatment of the Monsterpocalypse community. Being left to wither was bad enough as we tried to keep the game alive and visible. Then when the announcement came of its return I and others rejoiced only to feel the knife in our backs as our entire collections were now useless. That was a DELIBERATE decision by PP. They could have made the scale the same and everything would have worked. I and many others would certainly have bought new rules and over time new figures, factions, etc. Instead I and many others bought NOTHING. Will I play Mk4? I do not know. If there are not core parts of my existing Khador force, which I have plenty of back to the B&W Prime, which can be used to make a force up for the new version then NO, I am out for good. I'll buy new cards, books, etc. but only if you do not eliminate my investment entirely. I get that it may be very restricted. They can even restrict it back to the original Prime models because I am the first to acknowledge the bloat had become an enormous impediment to growing the hobby, but if they tell me all my stuff is useless then they are dead to me. If none of the older figs qualify for Prime then they can piss off.

[@grimlock5990]

It seems disjointed and almost a justification for the Orgoth.

[@chrisnelson7380]

I tried learning warmachine but the local group were very hateful and non helpful about the game. So I gave up.

[@misomiso8228]

5:15 I really disagree with this point - In Mk2 although you supposedly had more options to make lists, in practise all the best warcasters and models crowded out everything else. For example hAley 2 lists that were essentially identical were everywhere. By having theme lists and now Armies in Mk.4, it makes managing the game a lot easier as you can have new releases that don't keep having to increase in power etc.

[@aadms]

Few days ago heard about MK4... Happily I see a chance to get again into WM as some of mates wanted also to start playing again. Now I found this bs about insisting in armies in mk4... Like mk3 but worse. Simple calculations: MK2 - success Mk3 - fail MK4 - goes another level still insisting in the same premises of mk3 Fck... Legacy and unlimited... Why should my 200 models be considered as legacy, just for profit of PP ? Time to get back to malifaux... There are no legacies there

[@DK-zl5gb]

This is a sad hail mary pass from PP before they finally die off. That's all this is, and why things appear so weird. They're not being flashy with the new edition because they have no money to devote, and they don't truly believe they'll succeed anyway. They're moving to 3D printing for no other reason besides they don't have the money to produce their own models and sustain a transport pipeline. The pace of faction release is glacial because they no longer have staff remaining in numbers to release a new edition correctly. They've removed theme forces, which itself was a blatant cash-grab, to create new theme forces. This game is DOA, and I think PP knows it, but still feels they have to try to steer the ship around any way possible. This is their last attempt.

[@schmidtBoise]

MK3 was terrible. Killing the Press Gang program, pretty much forcing Tier Lists, and the terrible CID program killed our 20 person meta. I hated the evolution to flat terrain and the constant catering to the highly competitive crowd as well. All their most talented staff left right at MK3 anyway, so my confidence for a good MK4 is low. Iron Kingdoms is a great RPG though.