Can an AMATEUR win a game off a PRO?

[@meinsouza]

i reckon that shirtless winston would've gotten at least one more game...

[@elijah.espino]

PETITION TO BRING BACK SHIRTLESS WINSTON!!!

[@Outerrythem]

The above ankle socks certainly prevented the bagel.

[@dude-kc1qy]

We need shirtless winston

[@samster978]

He didn't have the shirtless buff

[@aznpokering4184]

Winston honestly played really well, the fact that he could rally with a pro and get balls back in play when he was blasting some shots was super impressive. Winston is probably near 5.0 level from the baseline

[@raspell]

Yea, kudos to Winston. I would have bet a lot of money he couldn’t win a game.

[@robertorolfo]

@@raspell I didn't think he would win one in the second set, especially after the way the first two games went, but Winston did a great job of hanging in rallies and making very few mistakes, while playing back decent balls. Definitely impressed with his play in this video.

[@waywardmunkey]

Agree; been watching Winston for a good year or two now and the FH wing from the BL definitely sniffs 5.0. BH wing got a lot better two; he's not as jammed and has a wide/stronger base now. But man the pros are just built different, one FH and the point is basically over...

[@markusszelbracikowski956]

Stefan here is definitely not even giving everything he's got, and yet it's clear as day to see the enormous gap between them, in how effortless and precise the pro's shots are. Thanks for sharing this, great respect to the pros out there! 🎉

[@nickmeyer1030]

100 percent. He was playing super-conservative.

[@aaronjosephs6233]

@@nickmeyer1030 Isn't that how you would want to play against someone you're far better than though? If you played against someone much worse than you and I told you to try and win as high a percentage of the points as possible it makes way more sense to play conservatively. Also it's not even possible for him to "give everything he's got" against a player so much worse than him, winston isn't capable of getting him on the run like another pro would. Probably a better way to say it is maybe he wasn't 100% laser focused against winston. You can theoretically play very conservatively but also be extremely focused

[@nickmeyer1030]

@@aaronjosephs6233 Thanks, I wouldn't have thought of that--but of course I'm a mediocre tennis player who would think that I need to sweep the court with anyone who's worse than me, and then I lose to them!

[@aaronjosephs6233]

@@nickmeyer1030 😂😂 yeah that's all of us

[@finneas9894]

@@aaronjosephs6233 Its not that Winston wasn't putting him on the run and therfore didn't give everything hes got. Its that he is holding back on his shots, and not ripping them with full effort because if he did there would barely be a game at all. Hes holding back to give Winston a chance.

[@DominicKeim]

I can see the short already for that backhand down the line at 16:03 "Amateur smokes backhand past Pro"😂

[@mpa1931]

Honestly, this is the best you have looked. Getting better every day my man

[@Rorshacked]

Mindboggling how there are still multiple levels of "better" above someone as good as SD here. Obviously he could win against a top 100 player on the right day, but that he loses more often than wins at that level is tough. Great vid dude.

[@FabsHF]

Maybe he can win against top 200 or 300... Because a 700th ranked guy won't have a chance against a top 100... To be top 100, you are consistently winning challengers and getting into main draws of major events.. A top 100 like Seyboth Wild (87th) has collected wins against Medvedev, Fognini, Musetti and Fritz

[@Rorshacked]

@@FabsHF You think he loses 50 out of 50 matches against Seyboth Wild? I could see him sneaking in at least 1-3, but you might be right.

[@FabsHF]

@@Rorshacked Djokovic is 19-0 against Monfils... Federer is 17-0 against Ferrer... Nadal is 18-0 against Gasguet.. That's the gap between ultra elite legends and former top 10 players.... The gap between 85th and 730th might be the same or bigger

[@Rorshacked]

@@FabsHF I agree that the gap may be similar, but also there's so much more variability in someone like Seyboth Wild's game. I just suspect SD could beat him on an extremely off day. I mean, if Omni Kumar (hovers around 400 in the world) can get two top 100 wins back to back against Rinderknech and Botic VDZ, then I think it's not farfetched to assume SD could beat Kumar on the right day which means he likely could've beaten Rinderknech and Botic. Regardless, it is crazy how good the top 100 are then how much better the top 10 are. Cheers!

[@sirbrochill7757]

@@Rorshackedprobably 48 of 50 are losses maybe more. I think he’s a great player but doesn’t have the exp playing at higher levels. Check his atp stats

[@kenmeyerjr57]

I really appreciate the camera angle...I don't think a lot of people know how high over the. net pros can hit it consistently.

[@andrewhwang8951]

First off, hats off to you Winston - you availed yourself incredibly well. Best thing you did was extend rallies by not beating yourself with unforced errors. When you extend rallies to 6-8+ shots (which you did consistently), anything can happen. Amazing job! But bigger picture, I think you (as an avatar for all us better-than-amateur club level players) highlight what to me is the biggest difference that we cannot make up when pros are really trying: serve and return of serve, the 1st and 2nd most important shots in tennis. On his serve, when he tries there's no way you can make up for the free points he gets off his serve. When you serve, it just doesn't hurt him at all, and in fact is probably a pancake I thought he was probably going easy on - felt he could have been more aggressive with what is essentially a "short ball" landing before the service line that he could absolutely murder. These advantages are pretty unsurmountable - with all due respect, if he were going 100% I don't think you get game. No disrespect to you (you played awesome), more a statement on the difference in levels on serve/ROS.

[@kurtaquino2]

Stefan's first set to second set serve difference was so pronounced. Winston, with your athleticism I think you could easily add 15 more miles per hour to your serve. Clay or Karue could probably help.

[@robertorolfo]

I agree with most of what you said, but you have to remember the mental aspect as well. Once Winston got ahead in games, or pushed to Deuce, you could see Stefan getting slightly conservative and "thinking" about it a little more. The mental part of the game cannot be understated.

[@t14dann18]

This reminds me of matches when i was in high school where people would think it was close between me and a really high ranked player, just by watching, but then I'd have lost like 61 61 or something because ultimately, you can have neutral groundstrokes that look close, but the difference between that and someone who a. doesn't miss dumb shots b. consistently puts away short balls c. makes >85% of put away volleys d. wins a lot of free points on their serve e. can hit big angles from the baseline f. consistently gets returns deep and puts away weak serves is just utterly immense and will produce a totally lopsided score

[@t14dann18]

You looked good out there though! I want your inside out forehand :)

[@highsocietyskate]

Wow!! My favorite segment of yours in a while man... Stefan is a monster and you hung right with him Winston!

[@Ian-fz8mg]

"just a little bit too slow, I think" haha god damn

[@Dfblack2008]

That was us rec players' strongest shot. 🥲

[@theFedHD]

@@Dfblack2008 well not for us all lol, yeah, in america you guys don't have the prettiest technique but here in EU (i live in Triveneto, 150kms from where Sinner used to train) even at the lower levels (4th category, Winston would be like a 4.1 here) people got pretty technique.

[@TheLiga]

​@theFedHD technique isn't everything though, at least at 4th and low 3rd category, there are LOTS of players with questionable techniques but well, if they win they win lmao winston could be 3.5 in italy imo (that also makes sense since he's a high 7 UTR in USA), idk on clay though since he always plays on hard courts. he's got a great fh and a quite solid bh now, serve is probably his weakest shot since it can be easily attacked by good players.

[@robertorolfo]

@@theFedHD sti cazzi...

[@Cody-ux2tq]

@@theFedHD oh shut up you dweeb

[@Heritage5StarNews]

you have improved so much since i started watching your channel a few years ago. that was a very impressive showing. keep up the good work. very enjoyable to watch.

[@RonaldHolliman]

You've gotten so good Winston. A few years ago I thought I could take you. After this video, I think you'd win. Great video. Good job keeping up with the pro.

[@michaelp9061]

Great camera angle showing the various spin and bounce. Tough match. Thanks for sharing this.

[@kurtaquino2]

It was so informative to see how quickly and aggressively Stefan's ball drops because of the spin. No wonder he can hit it so hard and make it stay in. Winston hits a great ball but in comparison it looks like its hangs in the air before the spin takes affect.

[@Royalitics]

17:44 You make it look like someone was forcing you to say this 😂

[@WinstonDu]

I'm just awkward on camera especially talking to myself lol

[@TheSuperDmyers]

Stefans service motion reminds me of Mardy Fish. So smooth it looks like he's falling through the shot. Beautiful.

[@stevenjm12]

4:16 thats a professional level slice right there!

[@Sam-hf8nq]

Thought the same thing. Skipped like 6 inches off the ground with just ferocious pace. I would've broken my wrist if I got a racket on it.

[@kururugi8221]

I loved watching this guy at USC! So happy to see Stefan on your channel :)

[@WinstonDu]

@@kururugi8221 USC legend

[@kip2mylou124]

Been watching your game for awhile now. Any plans to ever show the journey of playing in a 5.0 league? Game is above 4.5 for sure imo. Excited to see you reach 100K soon!

[@jeevst]

Wow man I’m impressed you did great ! His kick serves ! And the power on the forehand is another level

[@sudiptamallik1006]

Great effort Winston! You played well. Stefan is legit…much better than his current ranking

[@GeorgeT370]

Stefan is obviously a VERY good player....and a very nice guy too....seemed very humble to me...

[@-Munditimum-]

Fire is Winston. Amazing ma man...can't say how impressed I am seeing how much you've improved Winston with your ball recognition and even intensity overall. Steph is just an alien. Let's just leave it at that. :) Diamond content. M

[@toddbridgman7636]

Awesome job Winston! You hung tough and made him work for it during the extended rallies. The serves of the pros are just incredible.

[@promotry6934]

among many things in the match I like how you held game 4 first set. solid composure.

[@abiolaadeleye267]

16:19 I think Winston’s best rally. Nice job!

[@Stewart5225]

Respect WInston! Awesome Tennis! Thank you for playing Stepfan.

[@rsh8057]

thanks again for the equipment breakdown in the video! keep going. I'm surprised how well you could rally with him

[@srudloff12]

Winston, you did great!!!!!

[@Joãoborrachinha]

this is the best I ve seen you play , forehand and movement are really good , backhand and serve are where you can improve

[@lostpianist]

You BOTH raised your level in that second set, well done

[@rodrigobertoncinidias1943]

Winston, very well played. Stefan in that second set was amazing

[@milancollin1819]

It is always a pleasure to see you play and having so much fun in the game. I believe that if you start making points with your serve and moving faster (more flexible/fluid) you can start playing more smarter and dominate so e rallies. Like Federer, Nadal and Nole only win 52% of the points.

[@jackcslewis2009]

Got a bit worried when Winston did a couple of double faults when he had breakpoints, but right after that he picked up his level and I think that's the best I've seen him play on the channel. That backend is now super reliable. I think it used to be a bit of weakness but I see no weakness there now. Great two sets to watch. Props to Steph, what fluid strokes and movement, a pleasure to watch and very gracious guy too.

[@ayokay123]

Great fun to watch. Winston, when you play a guy like this, you absolutely have to go for broke on your backhand side. You're 90% defensive on backhand.

[@ajglenn03]

Winston! Dude you held your own as best you could and did a fantastic job considering the skill gap. One thing I saw was Stephan did so well was put his weight into his shots. He was really slapping those FH.

[@ak19910716]

I'm sure people have called you Zhong Xina before, I'm sure of it. The likelihood is uncanny. Love your videos.

[@TimelyAdventure]

Dang, 3 games, great job! Reminds me of Karue's thing where what separates higher level players is the serve and return game, the shots that start every point, and when your serve was going in and you dug into some rallies, you were able to string points together, very impressive to hang with his pro level pace. I'm a 7.45 and been getting rushed by harder hitters, that was amazing.

[@dirtyreiner]

Wow Wins, you did so well against that machine! Good fight

[@ipekazraak8195]

10:18 smooth 12:40 all time favorite (love that smash)

[@Secretasianman969]

Great rallies, Winston! You were hanging with him pretty well!

[@Madbootdestruction]

Stefan! Former Trojan great! Taking on the famous Winston Du from KZbin. Great to see you guys battling it out 🎾👍

[@throwinfitz1144]

It was a solid match. Good rallies, movement, and shot selection. Obviously there are levels, top 1500, top 500, top 100, top 10. It depends on the pro and the amateur they're playing. I know some 4.5s that if they're on that day, they're definitely taking a game off anyone outside of the top 500. People don't understand just how many levels there are from high-school to d1 to the pros.

[@TheFourSatoshis]

Gave a small donation, Stef went easy first set and stepped it up for us. Well done both

[@WinstonDu]

thank you!

[@leong4457]

What an interesting match great effort Winston 👏

[@OberstleutnantRoy]

Winston, you did a good job of not giving him too many of those "too slow" balls that he can hit a winner on. I don't think he could hit a clean winner off your good rally balls. That being said, I do think we was holding back a fair amount. If he was at full match speed, your count of good rally balls would go down. I don't watch you a lot, but you are much improved.

[@RonnieJamesOsbourne]

First off... Would def like to see Stef vs Karue, or Govind vs Stef! Regarding the amateurs vs Pro's... I had to look this video up to get their quotes right. Andrea Petkovic, who was on the panel with Roddick when discussing the topic about amateurs being able to get a game off of a pro...she said; "I like to play with amatures. Once we start rallying, they're like; 'hey, this is easy...I can hang with the pros...I can do this.' Then we start playing points... I DON'T GIVE THEM A "SINGLE POINT!" I was a professional tennis player and competitive... I'm not going to give you any points for free! I like to put people in their place. Not 1 game...Not 1 Point...NOTHING!" Then Roddick said... "If you play at a club and didn't play D1 tennis, you're not getting a game off of Novak Djokovic!" ( who was #1 at the time of this segment with a UTR over 16) Roddick also goes onto say; if you don't make a living off of tennis, (top 200 in the world) then you're NOT a professional. So...imho, an amateur is any rec player that belongs to any tennis club that didn't play high-level University/College tennis. In the post-match interview my prediction was right, guessing around 60% effort in the 1st set and 80% in the 2nd. All in all, I still thought you played pretty well, Winston! If we can't see Karue against Stef... Maybe, Mr. Clay Thompson would accept the challenge!

[@unknownvitster]

Stef would have no chance because of the way Karue is playing now. Karue's return and serve alone would make it very tough for Stef.

[@WinstonDu]

@@unknownvitster they're about the same UTR

[@RonnieJamesOsbourne]

@@WinstonDu (UTR) That was my thought, Winston! I think it would be pretty competitive, still! If not...maybe, Govind!

[@spooky1304]

An amateur male with a big serve or extreme slice serve with pace would get points off Petkovic. She's being overly cocky there. Clay would get games if he was serving well.

[@unknownvitster]

@@WinstonDu Have them on. I played in college, and the eye test tells me Karue is above him. Stef will not get more than 3 games per set. Stef's serve isn't big enough to get Karue off his return game, and Karue's serve is big enough to get him positive on most of his serving points.

[@jgugala]

Boy, he sure quit f*cking around in that second set.

[@wierdwabbitt]

Stefan immediately took control of every exchange, serve or return doesn’t matter, putting Winston on the back foot, but Winston really did well.

[@tenniswithandy]

Great hitting Winston. You did a great job of not going for broke.

[@jonbiedermann79]

Stefan was/is very generous with the lines, and polite! He says, "Just a little long..", as it sailed out by 3 feet, lol. Also Winston is NO WAY a 4.5. Definitely 5.0 (and maybe higher!) based on where I live (lots of grade inflation in SE PA), and as a former USTA Pro myself.

[@commondirtbagz7130]

Didn’t realize this was Stefan lol. Dude is goated

[@mskcouric]

Stefan’s backhand really shows you how much the game changes at the higher levels. Winston hits some nice balls to his backhand early and Stefan doesn’t just neutralize them - while playing relaxed - he absolutely crushes them crosscourt and puts Winston on defense immediately. The elite level of consistency is immediately apparent and you get the sense that if there were money on the line, Winston would be lucky to win even a few points over the course of a set. Winston’s serve is a point-starter against 4.5s and cannon fodder against a 7.0. I wonder how many return winners Stef could crush if he wanted to…

[@mskcouric]

Also Winston, you played GREAT vs. this level of play. That winner at 16:00 is SICK.

[@iamradrob]

That fake kick serve was nasty

[@ak19910716]

Holy cow Stefan's forehand is too scary. How do these players keep generating such power even when they don't have the time to fully stretch their arms or and turn their bodies?

[@alwaysprepared]

Winston played some awesome defense! But, most of the points he won were on unforced errors, so there's that. Overall Winston played very well-I'm impressed!

[@albertcamus5970]

Winston obviously playing great. Still feel he could improve his serve though. But what was interesting is that to me Stefan had the cleaner looking forehand - felt less complicated then Winston's.

[@terrybelmont8526]

Winston cada día subes de juego felicidades ,me encantan tus videos

[@TheOriginalOrizu]

Nicely played Winston!

[@cp_703]

Winstons backhand slice is a thing of beauty

[@JGtennistraining]

Great video!

[@WinstonDu]

who do you want to see Stefan play next time?

[@andrewhwang8951]

Karue!

[@goner2006]

Niels

[@kurtaquino2]

Clay.

[@kurtaquino2]

Bethany mattek sands

[@JV-py3lg]

Anyone that brings out the best tennis we can watch 🙌

[@fearsomebunny]

12:00, even Winston was laughing at that second serve put-away...

[@GrantTDM]

Stands out that him and Karue hit so hard without looking like they are trying to hit hard.

[@tennissliceoflife]

Well done Winston - you really held your own out there!

[@_eyuizcn_6051]

I saw that reel of Winston playing shirtless and was like wow he has improved so much and I ended up here

[@bigrobsydney]

Looked like a lot of fun. Winston, if only you improve your serve!! I keep telling you this. Come on man, do a block of training concentrating more on that, and your level will go up a lot. On another point, I'd love to see Stef play Govind and Karue.

[@katrenan]

Great job Winston!!!

[@breakindabullet6453]

Bro u are not a 4.5 anymore

[@gytisk6998]

Agreed, Winston is a legit 5.0

[@CarlUsana-o3l]

@@gytisk6998 highest a club player can go right, amazing respectable. 3.0 player here 😅😎

[@Shaunsweeney-Kubach71]

Great match this fun to watch!

[@davebeery_youtube]

Second set was ⚡️!

[@rafaborges505]

Awesome play

[@KingKuba1313]

Great job just keeping a rally going.

[@Jkan2001]

A UTR 8 4.5 is pretty high up the ladder for recreational players

[@Deerjason]

Yeah but also not all pros are equal in level as well. Higher recreational players are probably the ones more likely to fill out that survey about tennis plus u aren’t facing djokovic, they are probably thinking of a lower level college-pro player.

[@jenniegoh]

At first I didn’t see the “Stefan at 65%” and thought wow Winston really improved hanging with a pro and all Then I saw the second set at 85%… wow.. no chance lolll But good on you Winston for getting a couple games off him!

[@SolidFundamentalBase]

If two people are going to play from the baseline and one player is better than the other, just mail in the score. --Vic Braden For you to get a game, where he didnt just give it to you because he was trying a really low percentage shot/testing limits like he did here, you'd have to hit an aggressive enough shot and come to the net several times without him passing you. You hanged pretty well against him rally to rally, but just like the quote, it's inevitable because of the difference in everything.

[@Silverpig420]

7:30 in .25 speed is crazy

[@fookbia8875]

Nice! Winston just got bumped to 5.0!

[@shawnogg8208]

At that level difference 1 to 2 games a set can happen but one should not bet on it. Well played.

[@tomk5238]

Awesome content! Can we get Cassius or Neil's against this guy. Would love to see that.

[@Krwler]

This is like changing video game difficulty from HARD to NIGHTMARE mode.

[@Mindermaster]

Great game, Winston!

[@iAshwin]

Great video! Stefan hits with power! It doesn’t validate the survey though. May be the top 10% ( to be a 4.5 USTA) may be able to win a game with a pro (not 71%). Lot of 3.0s and 3.5s out there.

[@WinstonDu]

yeah 3.0 and 3.5s very unlikely to win a game lol

[@Dfblack2008]

I'd say I'd love a video of Stefan going a 100% but I think he did in the second set. Great job, Winston! 🥇

[@theFedHD]

the funny thing is that your 3.0 is our 4.6 here in Italy, the lowest possible rank one gets when he starts climbing the ranks and getting x points * match, it's sort of an ELO system, you get x points * game depending on the rank of the opponent you beat, and there are y points to get to advance through the rankings, but your 1.5/2.0/2.5 here are still NC (not classified) and we play on clay.

[@Funkytrip73]

@@WinstonDu and 4.5's like us have to wait for a few sloppy points of the pro and couple of 'all or nothing' good hits from ourselves :D

[@BL-zw5oi]

I’ve noticed a trend in tennis videos that I can’t explain. In the thumbnail for this video, @Winston Du is holding the racket without touching the handle while off court. I’ve seen other players do this, sometimes holding the racket by the throat instead of the handle while off court. Is this an etiquette thing, a habit or just a coincidence among several players? 🤔

[@jackorange1882]

Way to hang in there. There were alot of nice rallies.

[@Chris-Geezey]

Great job guys. Lots of fun. I don't think this match proved anything in regards to the survey. Winston may not be pro level, but he is a higher level amateur. The average amateur would be just as far below Winston as Winston is below Stefan. I think 90% of amateurs would be hard pressed to win one game.

[@sirbrochill7757]

put him in the d1 tournament lol. love how good this guy is

[@MrMolsons]

Stefan was being nice and allowing Winston to rally with him. After about 3 rallies, he finished him.

[@tr1ckster726]

The biggest difference between you and the pro is that he has strategy on every single ball. He hits it a certain way or to a certain part of the court to set himself up to win the point. Notice that the moment you hit a ball short, he was immediately putting you in a defensive position.

[@jaredmarc]

that’s my usc number 1 right there

[@micah2237]

Winston: not your average amateur

[@carlosmeneses9419]

nice very entertained match

[@TennisDK-hy7hr]

You are much better now than one year ago. Can you ask Stefan how he can server like that?

[@KingKuba1313]

What racquet do you use?

[@samdogen1846]

Should be 5.0! If I could play 5.0 from 38-44, so can you! Great job.

[@traderduke2]

Both wearing dark shorts, light shirts, and white cap backwards. Hard to follow which player was which! Winston's gonna need to keep a red and blue t shirt in his car for these instances.

[@elijah.espino]

Can we have a Hermont vs Mark Sansait match please? hahaha

[@tommywicker634]

I’m predicting 6-2 6-3 hermont

[@grimson]

How is Winston only a 7 UTR? I’m a 6.25, I’m 58 years old and a USTA 3.5, and I’m pretty sure Winston would double bagel me.

[@WinstonDu]

7.77 UTR with 64% reliability lol

[@user-oj7co5wm8g]

He’s a 4.5 level usta player so that ads up. A 3.5 shouldn’t win a game off a 4.5 if they’re properly rated.

[@theFedHD]

@@user-oj7co5wm8g your ranking system is so dumb, it's like saying our 4.4 shouldn't win a game off a 4.1, which is bullshit, it depends on various things, they should give you an ELO system based on points where you obtain a certain level only if you win matches and go through the ranks instead of a "rating" which means little, as I'm seeing 4.5 winning even sets against 5.0 players, and 3.5 winning against 4.0 etc etc

[@netman42CT]

A very good effort some great rallies, but Winston you need to work on your footwork, especially your forehand. Everything is open stance/off the back foot and you are relying on your arm strength and rotation for power (not all bad....) but ZERO weight transfer into the shot which lets you take advantage of the opponents power to feed it back easier. Watch how Stefan steps in whenever he can. Keep working hard!

[@TrevorForsythe]

Winston running in work boots by the sound of it.