Can buses replace domestic flights?

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Thanks for stopping by! A lot has changed over the past year, both personally and professionally, and this video reflects my broader interests in transportation beyond airlines. If you’re new, welcome! If you’re here for the planes, hopefully you stick around :)

[@ezekielcarsella]

I found you for trains ironically, but videos like these are so so cool!

[@COASTER1921]

I don't get why there aren't more sleeper busses. They don't need to be ultra luxury to be an appealing option especially if it allows them to compete on price. The sleeper busses throughout Southeast Asia and India are incredibly comfortable to sleep in despite pretty terrible roads, yet still cost a small fraction of a plane or even train ticket.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Yeah, not sure why either but I'm guessing in the US/Canada it's a combination of 1) generally bad image of bus travel and 2) lack of amazing financial upside i.e. you won't get the returns needed to attract much traditional capital or VC money - the recent growth of the Jet/Napaway might indicate a change in this tho, so that would be cool :)

[@x--.]

I remember looking into one of the services he mentioned in the video and it was a simple no for me: Cost. The pickup/drop-off area was difficult to get to by public transit and it was outdoors so you couldn't easily show up early and chill. And it was comparable to the cost of flying or taking a train. As fun as it sounded, it just came off as a logistical nightmare if you didn't have the money for all the ancillary costs -- and if you had the money, just fly.

[@drdewott9154]

I'd say at least for Europe its because of safety regulation. Lie flat bus seats and conventional sleeper buses were illegalised after several major accidents involving them and risking passenger safety with their design caused law changes in 2005. So now if you see an overnight bus trip, its just gonna be a regular old bus seat, or at best a business class seat, not with full recline, but a decent amount like on the VY Bus4You high end buses in Scandinavia.

[@planetarysolidarity]

1. Thank you! 2. If Amtrak and Greyhound were the same company, buses could feed train station hubs. 3. Someday, airships ( zeppelins ) will be flying hotels. 🐢

[@KevinMcFlying]

HOW does this only have 429 views? Mate this is an awesome video, well produced and super interesting. You've definitely gained yourself a subscriber. Hoping to see more like this from you!

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Thank you! Glad you liked it - I'll be making more :)

[@krissp8712]

Up to 6k now! Getting closer to recognition.

[@michaelschlicker]

Here in Europe intercity busses main advantage is price. Most of the time are a half or a quarter of the price of taking the train while only adding 1-2 hours. It's especially popular with students and city pairs with bad rail infrastructure between them.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Yep, I'd like to see us take advantage of that in the US/Canada, especially since good rail infrastructure will take a looong time to come

[@qjtvaddict]

Yup

[@qjtvaddict]

@@TheFlyingMooseCAwe only have planes and buses lol outside NEC and Brightline Florida we have no proper intercity trains

[@electricar9]

Yeah, Amtrak is a joke for reliable intercity passenger train services.

[@drdewott9154]

Yeah. In Denmark where I'm from despite being a small country, we have 3 major intercity bus companies, all of which cater to the budget segment but in different ways. First is Flixbus, the multinational conglomorate with the rock bottom prices. We all know them, they're the McDonalds of intercity travel. But then we get to "Kombardo Expressen". This bus service is run by a Ferry company called Molslinjen (and named after an ad campaign of theirs). Basically what this means is that in Denmark, the geography of large islands, peninsulas, and physical links is shaped like a big L. But Kombardo Expressen have exclusive access (at least for buses) to Molslinjens ferry service which works as a major shortcut across the country, cutting down journey times. Additionally passengers can buy food onboard the ferry which adds a competitive factor against the Danish state railways who have no catering. And more recently, Kombardo Expressen have started using their ferries as floating bus terminals, serving various destinations on both sides of the ferry link and allowing passengers to transfer on the ferry, while the crew moves your luggage from one bus to another. Basically a hub and spoke model where the hub is a moving ferry. Kombardo is the most expensive of the 3 companies though but usually a fair bit cheaper than the railways still. And then there's "Fleet" The newest service on the block, launching just a year ago by the company Vikingbus. Vikingbus is the largest singular bus company in the country with over 800 buses used on everything from long distance charter trips, to school services, rail replacement buses, tourist shuttles, and more! Their business model is using this large fleet to keep their prices low. The start price is between Flixbus and Kombardo, but if departures sell out and are in high demand, they don't hike the prices up, but rather just put more buses onto the same departure and keep selling tickets at low prices. They've become the cheapest last minute option for travelling across Denmark by far thanks to this business strategy that means tickets basically never sell out.

[@ttopero]

Unfortunately the cost of Greyhound is so prohibitive that I’d only use them if I was on the No Fly List at TSA! They are not budget friendly compared with airlines except if you want to get somewhere remote of hub airport. These newer coach services also don’t service the plains & mountain states well, which is also where trains are sparse & planes are expensive to regional airports.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Fair enough! Looks like a potential opportunity for someone in those parts of the country 👀

[@dereklenzen2330]

This is a really well-put-together video. I'm honestly surprised that this channel doesn't have more subscribers than it does already. You just earned a new one.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Thanks a lot :^)

[@pbilk]

I thought the same thing.

[@micahwong6323]

Before we got married, my wife had surgery in Chihuahua, Mexico and I decided to go visit her during her recovery for a Christmas day surprise. I hardly spoke any Spanish, but got dropped off at the bus station in El Paso and made it across the border, through Juarez, and on down to the beautiful city of Chihuahua. It helped having family know where to pick me up, but I was struck by how stress free the journey was for me, even though I could barely communicate with the folks around me in one of the most dangerous cities in the world. I love this video, way to go man.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Wow what a great story - glad it all worked out and thanks for sharing!

[@goldenstarmusic1689]

As someone who's recently used two intercity buses, FlixBus contracting Voigt's, they are clean, affordable and reliable. Genuinely do not need to fly between Chicago and Saint Paul, between the numerous daily bus connections and the Empire Builder (plus soon Great River train service!) Plus, no plane is gonna give you a rest stop at the Wisconsin Dells Kwik Trip. Great video!

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Thanks for watching! Love the kwik trip haha - glad to hear you’ve also had good experiences on Flix :)

[@goldenstarmusic1689]

@@TheFlyingMooseCA There's definitely a case to make for an 8 and a half hour daytime bus route. Midwestern travellers are used to longer distances and more frugal spenders. Those buses were both packed, especially when we pulled into Madison WI (almost like there should be a train line to that city). When it comes to needing to buy a travel option short notice, the bus has saved me twice with cheaper tickets than Amtrak and the airlines, with the advantage of downtown to downtown connections just like a train.

[@Fuxser]

This poppee up in my feed and i didnt realise until the end that the viewcount was so low and almost no subs?? Keep doing your thing and you will blow up very soon. The youtube algorithm as given you a chance!

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Really appreciate it - hope to see you around!

[@KingUnKaged]

In Ontario and Canada more generally long haul bussing actually competes with rail as well as planes because our national railway, Via Rail is so expensive and chronically late that a bus is often faster, cheaper, and more comfortable for routes like Toronto to Ottawa

[@himbourbanist]

I've been wondering for a while if airlines will start operating supplemental intercity bus routes now that Greyhound / Flixbus are kind of a bust in the US. It's an interesting proposal without a doubt.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

I feel like if airlines can figure out how to get passengers directly airside from a bus, that’d be huge for to be able to offload pressure to smaller airports 🤷

[@x--.]

@@TheFlyingMooseCA Bypassing bus-destination security would be a game changer but I don't see how they could do it - how could you guarantee a bus stays sterile from airport-to-airport?

[@InLoveWithCities]

Lufthansa has a partnership with Deutsche Bahn. You can get combined train+plane tickets and in Frankfurt passenegrs with such tickets have express check in (and luggage retrieval) right in the high speed rail station that is connected to the Airport. There is no security check for trains and no checked luggage so that needs to be done at the airport but this way you only need to walk the length of the platform with your luggage at most. It's actually a thing in multiple european countries that you book a flight but it's acyually a train sometimes. It's always been clearly labeled for me though.

[@fToo]

@12:58 another example is Etihad offering 10 coaches a day to Dubai city centre and Emirates offering 5 coaches a day to Abu Dhabi city centre!

[@UltraSwift]

Another absolute banger from Flying Moose. Sidenote, 5:42 caught me off-guard

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

haha thanks, hope it was a pleasant surprise >:)

[@fToo]

Onion News Network - excellent :)

[@nicolaslemay]

From LA to Las Vegas, I really wanted to take a bus as we would only lose 1h compare to flying. But I got surprised how many flights options there was, like 10x more than schedule buses. And online comment about Flixbus and Greyhound were terrible, we also got our share of shadiness buying a ticket with them. Price wasn’t very competitive, as some flight tickets were priced pretty similarly. At the end, still took the bus and it was fine, but I understand why most people don’t. They need a competitive bus option.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Definitely - although there’ll hopefully be Brightline West soon for that specific city pair, which would be a huge step up 😎

[@skylineXpert]

If the roads are In such a bad shape as in some places and roadwork for miles on certain interstates then I wont touch them at all...

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

fair enough - that's another physical aspect that has to be considered

[@qjtvaddict]

The country needs an overhaul and a leader who takes sovereignty seriously.

[@DanTheCaptain]

Intercity coach service really needs improvement in North America. Sleeper buses and more options like FlixBus need to be available. Really a solid intercity rail network can eliminate all need for domestic flights, like in Europe.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Yep, I think there’s a lot of potential to capture that low hanging fruit

[@JonnyKalambay]

🔥 as always. Learned a lot!

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

thanks Jonny 😍 biggest fan

[@pokepress]

There's another airport in the US that already has a similar bus situation-both Madison and Milwaukee (and some cities along the way) have fairly frequent (10-12 round trips per day) commercial bus service to O'Hare airport via the company CoachUSA. Depending on price and schedule, it can basically replace a connection between either city and O'Hare. I've used it for some recent trips, and would be using it for my upcoming trip to New Orleans if O'Hare had better options. Might be interesting as a follow-up.

[@qjtvaddict]

They can never replace them BUT they can enhance them greatly. You still have plane tickets that are cheaper than intercity buses on many routes. A plane ticket to Florida from NYC can still be $50😅😅😅

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Haha yeah, the sweet spot I reckon is replacing those 1 hour flights that really are just a hassle. I just have a multimodal dream 💭

[@ryandunlap6893]

Love your content. Keep it up!

[@SkulShurtugalTCG]

Yep, next time I wanna go from New York to London, I'll just hop on a bus.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

😂 nah take the train

[@fToo]

when I fly into Dublin airport I have the choice between going into the city centre and taking the (regional) train to my destination (3 hours) ... or taking a direct coach from the airport to my destination (about 3.5 hours). I always prefer the train since it's so much easier to get out my laptop and be productive. I just don't see bus/coaches as being anything like as attractive an alternative as rail is.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Thanks for sharing - definitely agree that rail > bus in terms of the passenger experience (even if a little pricier). Unfortunately in NA we just don't have those rail options and it doesn't seem like there's a strong will to build them, hence buses might be the best bandaid solution :/

[@goodfromohio]

Love these videos

[@InLoveWithCities]

Repeat after me: Trains

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

😂 ideally yes

[@erikbolkeny3112]

The main goal should definetely be to get people onto trains because it's just more enviromentally friendly and sustainable than any bus could be (even electric ones but those are rare and not that good of an idea anyway), for the time being getting out of people of their cars are always a win, I've taken flix buses many times from Budapest to Vienna and they were all great and cheap, also trolleybuses and electrification of certain routes could be a very good option, trolleybuses are so clean and quiet but unfortunately there isn't a lot of them but I think it would be the perfect middle ground between the ride experince of a train but a with a somewhat reduced complexity of a bus.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Yep, HSR is the ideal in many cases but buses probably have a key role in the transition - proving that people will shift from cars. I can imagine a situation where buses are almost used as proof of concepts to more easily justify the investment for rail

[@qjtvaddict]

Ok you make excellent points

[@adamcheklat7387]

Buses? Not by a long shot. HSR’s where it’s at!

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Agreed 😎 buses would only be the cheap stopgap :/

[@ABCantonese]

Hmm? Cabin dropped off the map soon after it showed up on the news here. Wasnt even aware it's a thing, that it's running at all.

[@HAL-bo5lr]

8:44 "Paused scheduled service in June of 2023, as part of preparations for a major expansion." In other words, Napaway probably went bankrupt.

[@JeredtheShy]

The accessibility of bus terminals and stations is pretty clearly classist. For Americans, they would be an ideal way to get yourself to an airport, but somebody is absolutely blocking any Greyhound stops from small city centers, where they belong. Last time I took Greyhound, somebody had to drive me to the nearest bus stop, at a truck stop on a highway miles from any town. Then, the bus, instead of having the blatantly obvious stop at an airport, where I was headed, could only drop me off somewhere in the middle of town, and now I have to pay $50 one way to Uber from the bus station to the airport. Crazy. But once you board the Greyhound, and see all the low-income brown people, you immediately understand why buses "don't work".

[@Jdespa1-l6p]

Ive traveled both in the us and mexico on buses and I feel much safer in mexico and also in terms of comfort and being on schedule with no delays.In comparison to greyhound which seems to have a monopoly on alot of routes and has alot of delays and stops along the routes and unfortunately the only option in comparison to mexico that has alot of competition and choices

[@leanderhartl9504]

You don‘t need High Speed Rail to replace flying. Good Intercity Rail is good enough. And I just want to say once again: Brightline in Florida is NOT High Speed Rail! To be considered that, it would need much more grade separation and an significantly higher, average operating speed.

[@x--.]

Fascinating. One issue, as a consumer, that worries me on long-haul bus trips is safety. Airlines have two pilots and a huge safety apparatus, it is really bad business for them to screw up. Buses, on the other hand, don't have anywhere near the safety record of airlines. As much buses are intriguing, they better get better at safety.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Fair enough - roads are markedly more dangerous than flying

[@mindstalk]

@@TheFlyingMooseCA But buses are far safer than private cars. More professional drivers, and simply higher mass. And a lot of air safety per km comes from long flights where nothing much happens; take-off and landing are the riskiest segments, as well as the dirtiest. On a *per journey* basis, air isn't so overwhelmingly safe, which will matter for someone taking lots of short flights.

[@DodoNn]

I tried travelling by Greyhound in Ohio. Ended up almost dying, being late 6 hours, and spending several hundred dollars on Uber in the middle of the night.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

🥲🥲🥲 sorry to hear

[@DodoNn]

@@TheFlyingMooseCA I was really sad because I love traveling by bus and train (I'm originally from Europe) and to see the US like that would be a dream

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Definitely a long way to go for buses in NA, but hopefully some of these premium services can raise the standards :^)

[@Caveirazul]

Impossible if you live in Ireland :(

[@RcottR]

How cool would it be if you could get off your long haul American flight and straight on your American connector bus.

[@TheFlyingMooseCA]

Yep or a train, the multimodal dream 😎

[@christopher480]

The short answer is NO......for short trips in the same state then yes.

[@jonathangot]

A 1-hour flight is efficient. I do it weekly. 15 min drive from home to airport, 10 min priority check-in + Nexus, 35 min breakfast in the lounge (something I otherwise have to do at home anyways), 30 min boarding, 60 min flight, 30-45 min to get from the gate to the office. I can get from my bedroom to the boardroom in 3-3.5 hours. I leave home at 5:30am to make the 9:30am meeting and leave at 4pm to return home by 7:30pm already having had dinner (and possibly showered) at the lounge. If I took a bus, the journey would be 4 hours, but I would still need to get from home to the bus stop and from the bus stop to the office, extending the trip to at least 5 hours not accounting for the bus being stuck in traffic. Trains could be fast enough in North America with enough investment, but isn't competitive without at least an hourly frequency and free same-day standby flexibility.

[@mindstalk]

"15 min drive from home to airport," That says you either live in a small town or have chosen to live near your airport. In big cities most people don't live in a 15 minute drive from the airport, even without traffic congestion. For a lot of people just getting to the airport would be longer, the check-in/security could be longer even with priority, getting *from* the airport would be at least as long. Conversely, downtown bus stops should be near an office, if not someone's home. Your 1-hour flight is efficient for you; that doesn't mean 1-hour flights are efficient in general.

[@jonathangot]

@@mindstalk Plenty of airports are only 15 mins away from the city along the QC-Windsor Corridor: YQG, YXU, YTZ, YKF, YYZ (From Mississauga and Etobicoke), YOW, YUL (From Mount Royal). The video includes a focus on the QC-Windsor corridor, yet it is not faster at the 400-km distance and the video provides no example of an actual trip. E.g. Windsor city hall-Toronto city hall by plane takes only 4-4.5 hours door-to-door on a direct flight on Aug 15 (Wed). However, Flixbus will take 6 hours on the 368km direct bus trip alone on the same morning, excluding time getting to and from origin and destination. You can find similar results for Ottawa city hall-Toronto city hall on the same day at 450km (he Ottawa-Toronto as an example of a trip where airplanes can be replaced in another video).

[@10-OSwords]

There was at one point a double decker bus service that went from Sacramento to San Francisco & I think ticket's ranged from $5-$25, I actually think there were two competing services. Don't know what happened with them all I know is that last p/u to return was 10pm & if I'm going to the city I'm going to party till they kick me out so if I took a bus I'd be stuck looking for accommodation...& if I'm taking a $5 bus-guess how much $$ I have to spend on accommodation. So, car it is, 100%. No matter how many plans they come up with like this, they always leave out a million details that will make it fail because they don't consider the full needs of the people who MIGHT use the service.

[@PerkeleKeyboardist]

Fellow Americans, Google trains :D

[@792247]

Is it just me or does this guy's voice sound very similar to Elon Musk?

[@skurinski]

No, they cant. Question answered.

[@Anthony-nu5oc]

Finally someone who doesn’t dismiss buses simply because they’re not trains. I salute you, Moose 🫡