Can I Break This Tournament Before it Breaks Me?

[@levsonc]

0:38 Ultimately, I decided to go with Canada the fact that I spawn in the tundra and players can't declare surprise war against me should allow me to avoid any early war, adding a great deal of consistency to my game plan. Poor boy! Never in his life he was so wrong!

[@bigfatkittymeow5237]

How can this be the GOAT tournament if it’s participants play so poorly?

[@codetime01]

That's because you can name the tournament whatever you want if you are sponsoring it. FFA in general is bad at detereming the best player as if your neighbor decides to push you early, your game just ends with only cheese strats to try to not be last place. On the opposite corner, you have teamers, the format used for actual competetive games where you have major impact on the game even if you fight early. Btw, Cyrus single handedly won the civ world cup a few years ago with a cv t37

[@JanusIIV]

@@codetime01 In practice, there's no good way to determine a single best player in Civ because it's just not built for it. Victim of early aggression in FFA, 1v1 being incredibly goofy, and teamers being...teams. And Teamers vs FFA is gonna test very different skills, I'd say that's an apples to orangutans comparison.

[@TieJote]

@@JanusIIV FFA would be a great way to determine in a format like this very tournament, where the multi game structure compensates rng and civ choice differences, if everyone actually tried to play for first or second, instead of irrel warring. This lobby had what, 3 irrel wars? Ridiculous.

[@penknight8532]

@@BIGGIECHEESE31 lul you got a point about better spawn competition but it's also heavily colluded with long time players being friendly to one another over the years.

[@davidaugustofc2574]

"I'm gonna choose Canada because spawning on Tundra and the fact that players cannot declare surprise wars on me should lead to a safe early game" "Gets Denounced first thing in the morning"

[@edgeman1135]

I like how the visual bugs got more fucked up every reload.

[@Scallers813]

Dick move Persia what was that about? I wanted to see him play Canada

[@CptManboobs]

Authentic Native Canadian RP Gameplay >Irrelevant war with neighbors for your entire existence >Get conquered by infinitely more scientifically advanced nation for no good reason

[@dashyz3293]

i like how that feudal timer was still fine because of the +3 TS but moreso because he boosted defensive tactics for you lol

[@SomeoneNotOriginal]

It's unbelievable bad luck that this madman is spawned next to you, but as an outsider viewer it was incredibly interesting to watch.

[@TheBenjaporn]

Pretty sick hot wheels decals you've placed randomly across your empire

[@enzo1107]

Damn, that's a real jerk move by Persia, no? I really wanna know if his logic had any sense at all

[@-pront2457]

I mean maybe he thought he had to act before mounti rush, so irreling them both kind of makes them survive until the other neighbors have tanks and then he survived longer + its a 50/50 on weather he or canada full dies first depending on which neighbor attacks. Or he is just trolling

[@larfee5191]

No, player just been doing it every goat tournament

[@Scheater1337]

If you already know you are bottom in terms of skill, it is better to grieve other players and gamble the 50-50 on who gets eaten first. Even better if you somehow find out that the other player is Herson, so you know he will have really good econ and be the better target for eating.

[@penknight8532]

Once you get killed with Mounties you never want to let Canada get them again.

[@Snow_Fire_Flame]

The logic is probably something like "Canada thinks it doesn't have to build defense because of the no sneak attack rule, ergo if I attack him anyway, even though it'll be slower, he still won't be ready." It's... not wholly invalid, there is something to be said for punishing greedy players, just Canada cities are also not very high-reward even if you succeed.

[@haoxus9413]

God spawn vs troll in FFA, what a game. The host should ban that type of behavior

[@icelandochka5808]

I had the same game yesterday. I had top2 stats and my attacker had 20/20 at turn 50+. I deleted civ6. It wasn't tournament game but I had ragequitted

[@Roziu135]

XD

[@penknight8532]

This is normal FFA behavior.

[@icelandochka5808]

​@@penknight8532 I disagree. Early war in FFA = irl on turn 50. If you don't take the opponent in 10 turns - it's a failure and you can leave this game (I mean - you don't influence anything anymore, classic irl). Loss of win condition and you can fight there purely at the score of and then you will be killed by tanks/helicopters in 99% of cases

[@Corsharkgaming]

"whaahh they irrel warred mr streamer pls ban" irrel wars are part of the game. targeting and timing attacks is a skill. it sucks when you're on the wrong end of it but more often than not it means two other people in your lobby are guaranteed 9th and 10th.

[@Atze.Tatze69]

Just finished the VOD - an i can confirm "the most unfairly treated CIV6 gamer is all of history my respect to herson to stay that calm during this game, even watching this got the nugg tingeling in my ragecore

[@dashyz3293]

3:30:46 - 3:30:58 this is... odd. maybe it has some crazy thing to do with attacking through a mountain tunnel and then the game thinking the unit is on a mountain and takes it away. Just a thought/

[@warheads9676]

It got teleported over to Babylon, where they had a tunnel,,,, weird game mechanics

[@Terrorcooky1]

the tunnels are wierd coded and therefore units get teleported to unusual places (like literally any entrance/exit that the games thinks fits the best) and not back to where they stood. Maybe to not block the tile the player entered. Like in this case they got send to an exit left (Babylon)

[@levsonc]

Yeah, as seen in OnSpotTV stream, they got to Babylon. I think because they haven't beat the target unit and have to stay in another hex. Actually, they are literally behind the chat when he is typing if you look closely. Just need to know where to look.

[@MrMulleteer]

Maybe org renames the GOAT tournament to TMUTCC tournament if this keeps happening. (The Most Unfairly Treated Content Creator to raise awareness of the victims of senseless griefing).

[@SkyForceOne2]

Cant prevent people from looking up who youre playing as and trying to target grief you every game i guess

[@HersonCiv]

To be clear, the player who was playing Persia here also played in the previous GOAT tournament, where he also went for a classical era war in all 3 games. It could be that he was always going to just attack whoever spawned next to him, and I just happened to be the unlucky target. He's a good enough player to know that this is a losing strategy, by the way. He generally avoids early war and plays well in regular ranked FFA games in CPL, which is why he was able to get a high enough rank to qualify for the GOAT tournament in the first place. Personally, if I were the event organizer, I would use my power to filter out players who aren't actually trying to win, but the current event organizers think that these players introduce a fun wildcard element or something, idk

[@totallyUnimodular]

@@HersonCivin all fairness, if you are not at the receiving end of this nonsense, it is a bit funny. But yes, it looks like a “I know I can’t win, so at least I will take down someone with me” type of move.

[@JanusIIV]

@@HersonCiv I get the vibe but that just quickly becomes an arbitrary playstyle filter. Better to figure out if people need a prize to play seriously, and then just offer something. Individual Discord role for the month or something. Also, weird for it to be a 'GOAT' tournament and happen every month.

[@krusty9973]

@@HersonCiv maybe they should introduce a punishment akin to coming in last place in your fantasy football league. last place banned from ranked for remedial training given by mods.

[@leshamas_]

@@HersonCiv that Tyr guy was even trolling in chat asking why were you irrel warring him. To me behaviour like that just puts a certain label on that player's forehead to avoid any contact with him forever. How can treatment like this be considered "a fun wildcard" when the dude was commited to spend several hours to ruin your fun before it even started? No CPL rank could justify this. I'm not a snowflake by any means, but to me there would be no incentive to participate in any of the next iterations of a tournament which does not put good sportsmanship before everything else. Organizers should know better. Best of luck to you in the 3rd game!

[@ForcefulDragon]

So annoying to watch FFAs where people constantly make plays that aren't even ostensibly in their OWN best interest just to hurt you. They should at least be able to point to their play and be able to justify it as somehow being a potential benefit for themselves, but that doesn't seem to be the case with any of the decisions that resulted in you being warred and eliminated in this game.

[@aidenxokeefe]

In another universe you were simming peacefully with ToA + Colo

[@penknight8532]

Yeah, till turn 70 when he decides to attack Persia.

[@LikeAFreeman]

​@@penknight8532oh are you persia?

[@brianlicayan1127]

this is quite frustrating to watch indeed, why does persia even join if they arent trying to win

[@penknight8532]

Because they had a sheet spawn, and they don't give a Fook.

[@kutrodassf1851]

I kinda feel that the lobby has mercenaries, irrel waring people so others win

[@penknight8532]

The game is dumb no matter how you play it or what rules you implement. It's a complete waste of time unless you can make money from it like Herson and a couple of other content creators.

[@Esgarpen]

If it is to any consolidation... I believe - judging by the skill level of Persia - that this player would've done it to whoever spawned the closest anyway, I don't think this was a target greif, you were simply targetted because you were to closest spawned player and Persia don't know how to play long game so their entire game hinges on eliminating someone such that they don't place last

[@penknight8532]

He is a top ten player... he has plenty of skill.

[@rollerskdude]

​@@penknight8532Not from what we've seen in this tournament.

[@Basshead004]

​@@penknight8532It seems like he has a strategy that only works if the player next to him is actively bad

[@05AT1]

Herson, it’s 4am in the morning. I have to get up for work in 6hrs. You cant keep on dropping bangers at this time.

[@andrewpark78]

This was probably the worst game I've ever seen. Irrel war from turn 29 until the end of the game.

[@penknight8532]

Literally happens all the time in CPL FFA games. Go play a bunch of Novice lobbies and find out how frustratingly dumb this game/league really is.

[@JohnThacker-qi4gp]

1:41:17 chat implies persia is griefing, seems like something that warrants punishment

[@Zerromi]

Lol, yeah, I was utterly gobsmacked by the balls it takes to ask "why are you irrel warring me" when they started the war to begin with.

[@penknight8532]

It's FFA... no rules against Griefing another player or Irrel Warring.

[@JohnThacker-qi4gp]

@@penknight8532 ostensibly this is tournament that is marketed as competitive in nature where the players are supposed to be trying to place as high as they can, not fucking over another player for the lulz

[@JohnThacker-qi4gp]

@@penknight8532 this game was a part of a tournament marketed as competitive in nature, where ostensibly the players try to place as high as they can, not screw over another player's potential placement for lulz

[@Atze.Tatze69]

Poor herson goes canada to not get Irrel wared.. gets Irrel warred nevertheless

[@YNotTho1]

You have far more patience than I do. These “event coordinators” need to get their shit together and figure out how to make a competitive lobby without allowing trash to join just to irrel war and has no intention of going for a win condition. If they’re unwilling to make changes to better the “goat” tournament (what a joke when you allow trash in) I’d no longer participate. You should definitely consider putting your own event together, you’d do a much better job than this failure of a “competitive” competition.

[@penknight8532]

You literally have to be a top ten player to make it into this tournament.

[@YNotTho1]

@ The top ten rated applicants get in*. And you’d expect the players that apply to play to win and not go to irrel war, which Persia was clearly planning on doing regardless of who spawned near them. Going to war with Canada for tundra makes no sense at all besides being a weak player that’s hoping they can make someone place under them but having no hope of winning or placing well.

[@mhse5825]

If he irrel wars every game in this series maybe he is trying to boost someone. He cannot target boost efficiently ofc but can give him +2 placement every game.

[@penknight8532]

Yeah, everyone is cheating in CPL.

[@rollerskdude]

I'm not watching this one. Fully. Hopefully the next game is better.

[@rolandxb3581]

Military support and flanking bonuses still unlock at military tradition in BBG, right?

[@kyleyoung1982]

What a dumpster fire this was, the Persian player should be banned for irrel warring like that. Just game ruining.

[@penknight8532]

You'd have to ban 95% of the Civ Community if you're going to ban Persia for this.

[@rkjj.]

That should be an actual exclusion from any future turnaments lol

[@penknight8532]

It's perfectly legal in FFA. No difference than Herson building up Mounties and killing Persia later in the game.

[@rkjj.]

@@penknight8532 i'm not that familiar with ffa games in general but isn't that a net negative play by persia what is there to gain

[@johnhyland3675]

@@penknight8532 That player doesnt play to win they just irrel in tournaments after playing normally to qualify. Clearly they get some kind of pleasure from ruining other peoples games.

[@nacargod5110]

i really wonder what persia's thought process was

[@penknight8532]

F CANADA... that was his thought process.

[@rollerskdude]

Persian Immortal Unit plus bonus movement for suprise wars was all his tiny brain could muster. But he declared war without the Immortals so he's just an idiot

[@levsonc]

@@rollerskdude surprise war is not about Canada, lol

[@Vicnotinho]

If this was not target im a refrigerator with wheels

[@SkyForceOne2]

can u open up and get me a nice cool drink? :P

[@klmnts]

Best of luck on game 3 later 🎉

[@LordAkkaron]

I thought with BBG you cant force-end ur turn for stuff like science/prod overflow? I thought it auto selects Techs/Stuff to build?

[@kingbailey7240]

It only auto picks techs/civics

[@LordAkkaron]

@@kingbailey7240 ah ty! so with prod overflow accumulating for a max of 1 turn, you can prod nothing for one turn just before starting/unlocking a wonder, makes sense, ty!

[@Orhbbs]

To be clear, BBG doesn't select techs and civics for you. It's multiplayer helper (MPH) that does that.

[@captainjack2470]

Glad I got to see the horse comment👍

[@cptfwiffo]

Loki loves to keep horses around

[@wabb1e156]

Unfortunate spawn neighbor. Also seems like nobody is banning Babylon he’s doing very well this tournament and gets to pick his main every game. Did he ask you guys not to ban his civ?

[@NotFlappy12]

It's not the same player playing Babylon, they get a random pseudonym every game

[@elijahwidener4193]

Why not host your own invitational tournament?

[@penknight8532]

So he can make the rules, ban players who he thinks is cheating and win every tournament??

[@rollerskdude]

​@@penknight8532So he set the rules so everyone actually tries to win. He could guarantee himself an auto win every tournament he organises... once. And thats the last time it would ever work.

[@elijahwidener4193]

@@rollerskdude I don’t even think he would even do it once. It’s bad for his image.

[@ryancaston3009]

getting military tradition early would've gave you support/flanking bonuses.

[@Folkster1915]

-4 hours I guess LULE

[@lordsavor8093]

forsen

[@firepillar6677]

No way u watch civ6 on 1x speed

[@smasht94]

just play it on 1.5 speed 4Head

[@torgor_]

embarassing showing by tordread. in other news water is wet

[@jonas6052]

Jesus christ that was disgusting to watch, I would have rage quit in the middle I don't have the mental for it.

[@penknight8532]

It's a dumb game but Herson does this to noobs all the time rolling them in the early/mid game. Nobody upset on this channel when Herson kills his neighbor.

[@rollerskdude]

​@@penknight8532Herson only does so to place as high as he can in the games ranking. He did not do so but instead just tried to grief his neighbourHerson only does so to place as high as he can in the games ranking. He did not do so but instead just tried to grief his neighbour then everybody would be upset.

[@davidaugustofc2574]

​@@penknight8532 He doesn't take the entire game to do it 🤷‍♂️, he also doesn't declare stupid wars like he's a Deity AI

[@githiordyetrin443]

These tournaments are so damn boring to watch and really don't prove anything other than who gets better rng

[@penknight8532]

No CPL game proves anything. A lot of it is luck and neighborhood spawn. If you don't have good neighbors... you lose.

[@alexwindy3]

Tbf Herson you should maybe only do youtube videos out of tournament games like these. There is no way to prove it but I simply suspect there was a lil bit of stream snipery afoot here. You were targeted wayy too hard both by Persia too early and by Babylon when Persia was an easier target...

[@Basshead004]

Persia's gameplay was literally indistinguishable from someone trying to boost other's rating at their own (and your) expense. I get trying to war, but he did nothing but make you both easy pickings late game

[@herbsandamunition8501]

there was a plan in the lobby to kill you

[@kyoto2618]

holy moly

[@samb123078]

Maybe Herson should go super aggressive right off the bat if this is what he has to deal with.

[@penknight8532]

Doesn't Matter. If you Early War it makes you irrel 97% of the time.

[@mythrandil5600]

Woo! Draft explanation! Next stop: a how to draft video

[@Tiggy_]

If this is a goat tournament then there should be aim for winning and not suff like this. If it would be a fun tournament, then ok. What are the organizers thinking? That this is funny in a tournament to be the best?

[@penknight8532]

This literally happens in 90% of FFA games in CPL. Nothing New. Herson rolled his neighbor Rome in a few videos back in the mid game. It was ok because his opponent didn't defend properly and Herson won. It's ok when Herson wins. When he loses, you all cry foul.

[@NotFlappy12]

​@@penknight8532from all of your replies it's clear you're not a competitive player. That's not me trying to gatekeep, but you simply don't seem to understand how it works. In competitive play, you always try to make the most optimal move. In the Brazil vs Rome game you mentioned, Herson could see he would easily be able to take some of Rome's cities, giving him a big advantage. In this game, Persia blindly comits to an unwinnable war, and keeps slamming units into Herson for the entirity of the game, ruining his own chances of get a top placement. The facr Herson ended up losing this game has very little impact on how we judge Persia's play. It was suboptimal regardless of how you look at it. The fact it impacts another player (for no gain) only increases the damage it does to the tournamentsl's integrity.

[@Atze.Tatze69]

Still dont know how kumasi is not fixxed or banned in tournament

[@penknight8532]

It got nerfed so it's not nearly as strong as it used to be. So did the Colosseum.

[@Ghostrander]

Apparently fighting through a mountain tunnel can delete your units? Also, Hammurabi probably joines Persia's war on you such that he did not need to denounce you first

[@HersonCiv]

They actually weren't getting deleted, they were just all getting teleported to the mountain tunnel that Babylon had built on the far western-end of the mountain range. I just failed to notice this during the game

[@Ghostrander]

@HersonCiv Civ6 sure does weird things sometimes

[@That1CPA]

Ban that troll. Wtf.

[@penknight8532]

You do not get banned for Irrel War in CPL FFA.

[@That1CPA]

@penknight8532 when it places you 7th or 8th every game, maybe it should.

[@joseffritzl8379]

Okay so...I understand the notion of irrelevancy war, and I understand why it's frustrating to encounter behavior like this in a tournament. As a player who just wanted to sim, knowing others who do get to are rapidly pulling away, I'd be annoyed too. That said, this game has a number of civilizations who have cool war bonuses and unique units early, and we almost never get to see that because of sim meta. His gambit could have paid off if he had been against someone less capable at defense (and not tundra-bound Canada I reckon), and I like to see players doing something other than hunkering down until artillery, railroads, and cuirassers at the earliest to do anything. Thanks for sharing it regardless of outcome!

[@pineapple5923]

against AI yes. Against a good human opponent you'll just never break though. Herson literally just showed that a civ with no early military bonus can hold old infidelity against a civ with one of the best classical unique units in the game

[@nubeng]

this just means you've never played multiplayer civ 6 lol

[@rolandxb3581]

If the games were played on standard speed or slower, maybe early war would work if prepared and executed well. But not on online speed 99% of the time.

[@BIGGIECHEESE31]

@@pineapple5923 not true tho. Herson got rolled by macedon trynda in the ffa cup some months ago and macedon still got 2nd with great chance of getting first. There are multiple ways to play this game

[@pineapple5923]

​@@BIGGIECHEESE31yah, you're right. Notice I said "one of the best" which persia has. Macedon obviously has the best and he wasn't prepared for it. Sometimes it might work, but most of the time it's just dumb

[@HistoricDidYouKnow]

maybe because elo isnt on the line people like to do more "fun" playstyles wich they cant do in normal matches

[@kutrodassf1851]

I actualy enjoy this games way more than the ones that "going as planned". Games that you win from turn 30 are boring to me.

[@penknight8532]

Much more realistic for most of the player base and what to expect if you're a noob joining the CPL and Novice Lobbies.

[@simonweiss6084]

isnt irrel warring every now and then fun ? XD

[@gumbotime9564]

2:15:00 no isolationism!?

[@kos4life]

I imagine he had similar thought process to you, if I lose TOA I'll rage quit. Guess just irreled instead. Unless you know something I don't and he always wanted the irr war

[@aidenxokeefe]

They were always going to miss TOA with Canada in the game….

[@BIGGIECHEESE31]

This is FFA and he got a unlucky spawn with irrel warrer next to him, but its not like this is some evil thing that persia is doing. Every game of FFA (when everyone is good player) gets decided by spawn anyways, so there is no difference if u come last bc u get no tempo and unlucky barbs, or if u spawn next to monkey that irrel wars u and that is the reason that u come last. If u want space for skill expression, watch teamers, where u can actually have impact without godspawning and simming to tanks. Onedimensional gamemode FFA

[@romoxes]

😊

[@keegmcg4773]

😂