Can Saxon Hearth Troops Beat Legionary Cohort in OG Rome: Total War?

[@Pumciusz]

I shed the blood of the Saxon men, I shed it at Verden.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

:) Thanks for the comment.

[@cerdic6586]

That was quite close. I suppose this highlights how important armour is in melee.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.

[@BannoWanno]

That Triarii did the hardest U Turn just to get instantly capped

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Indeed :) Thanks for the comment.

[@timothyernst8812]

Pitting hearth troops against vanilla units is kinda hilarious. With the exception of Clibinarii immortals BI units are generally weaker than vanilla.

[@rorschach1985ify]

Not really they hit less hard but have generally far higher defense due to insane defense skill and better shields. Not to mention they were not using Shield Wall which would have made the Pila throw much less damaging.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Agreed on some. Comitatenses 1st was able to beat the whole Roman Infantry roster :)

[@hayatobstgemusehandel5319]

BI units are definitley stronger than vanilla units, especially cavalry

[@timothyernst8812]

@@hayatobstgemusehandel5319 type barb noble cavalry gaul dictionary barb_noble_cavalry_gaul ; Barbarian Noble Cavalry category cavalry class heavy voice_type Heavy_1 soldier barb_noble_cavalry, 27, 0, 1 mount heavy horse mount_effect elephant -8, camel -4 attributes sea_faring, hide_forest formation 1.5, 4, 3, 6, 4, square, wedge stat_health 1, 0 stat_pri 9, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,1 stat_pri_attr no stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 25 ,1 stat_sec_attr no stat_pri_armour 6, 5, 4, metal stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh stat_heat 2 stat_ground 0, -2, -4, 2 stat_mental 8, impetuous, untrained stat_charge_dist 40 stat_fire_delay 0 stat_food 60, 300 stat_cost 1, 600, 160, 60, 90, 600 ownership gauls This is one of the weaker heavy cav units in vanilla. Almost all heavy cav in BI has attack of 8, charge of 6, and defense of 22. I don't know what school you went to that taught you that 8 and 6 are greater than 9 and 7. Maybe the extra armor gives the BI unit an advantage, but generally attack is better than defense and stamina and morale are generally better for vanilla units. type greek argyraspid dictionary greek_legionary ; Silver Shield Legionaries category infantry class heavy voice_type Heavy_1 soldier roman_legionary_cohort_ii, 40, 0, 1.3 officer greek_standard attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, hardy formation 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, square, testudo stat_health 1, 0 stat_pri 13, 3, pilum, 35, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 25 ,1 stat_pri_attr prec, thrown ap stat_sec 9, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25 ,1 stat_sec_attr no stat_pri_armour 12, 5, 5, metal stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh stat_heat 5 stat_ground 2, 0, 0, 0 stat_mental 8, disciplined, highly_trained stat_charge_dist 30 stat_fire_delay 0 stat_food 60, 300 stat_cost 2, 710, 260, 80, 110, 710 ownership seleucid This unit has 9 attack compared to comitatenses 8. Hearth troops have 11, but they don't have pila or warcry. There are also no phalanx infantry in BI. Cataphracts are heavily nerfed, and elephants are almost worthless. In missile units nothing in BI compares to pharaoh's bowmen, forrester warband, or Cretans. The rosters, especially for the Romans, are significantly weaker and less flexible, which typically results in longer battles.

[@Gitsmasher]

well done , after seeing hearth troop in actions on your small army videos this is pleasant to watch. Yeah roman legions in its Prime can still kick barbarian elite troops arse... the initial pilla also help

[@rorschach1985ify]

That's only because the unit is not using shield wall is not being used which greatly increases the Hearth Troops defense, especially against missiles which would have nullified majority of the damage from the Pila.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Agreed on that :) Though, their efficiency was curbed a bit due to lack of Shield Wall.

[@DFuxaPlays]

Pila throw was just too much to overcome.

[@rorschach1985ify]

Now try seeing how that holds up against Shield Wall.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Agreed :) Thanks for the comment.

[@grantrobinson5046]

Could we see the differences in climate especially for desert factions like Egypt? I’d like to see how pharaohs guard and nile spearmen due against the Roman roster with “home field” advantage Edit: spelled Nile Mike accidentally and corrected it

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. I will add that to To-Do list :)

[@rorschach1985ify]

You need to do a 2nd test in BI where the Hearth Troops use shield wall and spread it out to get the best effect. Hearth Troops without Shield Wall is only using them at half their strength because Shield Wall makes them tougher and fight longer while greatly decreasing Missile attacks. Just edit the Roman troops here to one of the Roman factions and possibly edit the Grassy Plains in so get the fairest result.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Yea, the plan is to start similar series on the BI soon :)

[@priximus2254]

Gotta play some Barbarian invasion again!

[@Gitsmasher]

Go try saving WRE sir , full christian

[@qualityoldgames7721]

It is a quality old expansion :) Thanks for the comment.

[@georgelupas3499]

Honestly they might have had a chance against the legionary cohort if not for the pilla. This gives me an ideea for testing how much the pilla actually helps... testing how the units do their job with or without the pilla. I really can't remember if you have made any videos on this subject.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. There is at least a sort of video about that. Link below ;) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZi2ZGOLZpKWeac

[@ouroze2221]

Thanks for doing my suggestion! My next suggestion is Britannia vs Saxons. Warlord, 5 x Levy Spearmen, 4 x Saxon Hearth Troops, 2 x Mounted Nobles Warlord, 3 x Warband, 3 x Woad Warriors, 3 x Swordsmen, 3 x Chosen Swordsmen, 2 x British Heavy Chariots

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately, that does not work on the OG, as the max amount to "import" units seems to be 3 so the game continues to work :)

[@rorschach1985ify]

I would recommend giving the Saxons more troop types than just levy spearmen and Hearth Troops. Add in some Saxon Keel and Chosen Axemen.

[@ouroze2221]

​@@qualityoldgames7721 You can use a base game Bodyguard unit for the Saxons so you only import Levy Spearmen, Saxon Hearth Troops, and Mounted Nobles.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

@ Hmm. I guess that should be done in Remastered nonetheless. Let's see what we can come up with :) Thanks for the comment.

[@relunxet]

Alexander immortals vs comitatenses 🎉🎉

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the suggestion. I will add that to To-Do list :)

[@relunxet]

@qualityoldgames7721 after that can you do Alexander unit himself vs all cavalry units in Og rome?

[@qualityoldgames7721]

@ I will add those to TO-Do list as well. :)

[@marekmagdziak5916]

Let roman's charge or at least let them throw pilum.

[@georgelupas3499]

They do throw the pilla even if they are stationary

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. They throw the pila. They walk, because then the throw is better than from running :)