Can't Saw Flat Lumber?? QUIT Blaming Your Sawmill!

[@JohnWinsemius]

Robert another great informative video, you are the best mill operator on the tube.. We need to call you the professor...

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I like that

[@paisaconstructiondavid1964]

Thank you, I keep learning. You talked about the hook angle. What about the teeth per inch? Obscourse I am still learning sawmill things and in the bandsaw in the shop this is what I learned.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, tooth spacing is important, but most for tho hp range are 7/8" spaced.

[@jerrylittle8922]

Thank you, Mr. Robert.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Sure, glad it was helpful.

[@jamescrowley1912]

Thanks for taking the time to produce another video, I look forward to every one, thanks again.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks for watching!

[@kitb9948]

Getting my new LT 40 delivered tomorrow. I've been reviewing all your videos and taking notes, they're truly a goldmine of information. Thanks!!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Glad you like them! and glad to her you are getting a new mill!

[@ronnielloyd4514]

There is so much to know. It takes years of practice.

[@ronnielloyd4514]

Do you ever use a Joe Main silver tipped turbo. Spelling may be off. I always hear Nathan from Out of The Woods talk about them?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, I use Joe Maine bands all the time, they are very good.

[@academicmailbox7798]

The thing that always has grabbed me most 'about' anything to do with arborist tasks and technique, or forestry management, mill saw work and ultimately 'the carpentry' which dovetails itself on to the back-end of the other commodity and grade lumber side. For me, is pretty straightforward. That tools for woodworking and lumber jacking over the centuries, be they very old or very modern. Are all somewhat a part of some family or other. The power saw is related back to the hand plane tools (create chips and shards). I discovered hatchets late in life, as once my power saws were all in the shop. I needed to do something then and there, I turned to hatchet working for power saw work (but only having unsuccessfully attempted to use a skilsaw first, and that didn't go well). Although, a circular tungsten tipped saw blade can hold it's own, even with green lumber.

[@academicmailbox7798]

The point is, some power saw users relate back to sharpened planing hand tools (to explain how to sharpen power saw chains). And I can recall grandfather being so efficient with his set of wood chisels (another tool I own some of, but never learned). The hatchet was another one of those implements that I had at arm's reach but never learned to use it. Yet, this is the timber about families to wood tool implements. The muscle memory developed over decades of dealing with underbrush and overgrowth, the slashing and hooking sets of tools. Is the same as using an axe handle to chop with. So even though my axe using experience was zero, it felt as though I'd used an axe my whole life. Because the briar slasher and hook tools are axes, modified to deal only with undergrowth. Then I listen to this band saw conversation, and immediately I wondered. Why does this sound familiar to me. Why?

[@academicmailbox7798]

It's not all that complicated, because if you've existed as a pedestrian based woods person to landscaping person for long enough, and you've needed to carry a slashing or hooking tool. The tensioned bow-saw bladed tool typically is in the other hand (where the slashing tool is in the other). The lopper was one other tool that I've added, the power saw (small power saws, medium and large power saws are really different tools, even though the look similar). The only thing which I took out of the carpentry sphere and re-adapted to the world of green lumber in the wood. At first with some success, but then understanding why it wasn't suitable for lumber. Is a tool called a reciprocating saw. For of like an electric jigsaw, except the blade is much larger and points out straight from the tool. Not at right angles, like the jigsaw does. I still like the electric jigsaw for my plywood. I just do. But I've started to wonder if the reciprocating saw (the two-handed implement), should ever have been invented. And I'm even more suspicious of single-handed reciprocating saw tools. Why? I suspect a generation of younger trades people who have these things, will grow up with injuries to their finger joints and movement, that we've never seen. Not with skilsaws, or jigsaws or anything.

[@academicmailbox7798]

And yet, the traditional carpenters saw tool was a reciprocating motion implement. Yet the interpretation of that, which has a powerful electrical motor to move a blade rapidly back and forth. It doesn't seem to work to me. The reciprocating saw is like the pneumatic mechanic's impact driver used to take off lug nuts, had a child with the traditional carpenters saw. And the result is just bad. Anyhow, the 'bow saw' which is an extremely humble and modest tool, is still a gateway or an entry point into that tool family. Where hardened, flexible straps made of steel metal are put under tension. And are used to saw through timber in a particular manner. And that's the point that I would argue to anyone. One doesn't have to own an axe, or chop down a whole tree. To know something about lumber. Or own a saw mill to get an idea of how efficient a tensioned blade or band can be. One can begin in the commodity doing yard or lawn work for friends and neighbours. And still build up a lot of knowledge that can be applied to this later on.

[@academicmailbox7798]

My point? I think that woods folk and such, they come of age and attain their maturity quite late. And why? Lumber, and good lumber is a valuable, useful and finite material supply. It requires people around it who are rational, considered, mature and creative minded. That's a combination that takes it's time arriving in most human beings (we arrive early on gifted with a single aspect, of many that are needed). And that is my point about the reciprocating saw tool. It's intended audience is that young individual, who simply sees a two-by-four as something to chop in half. And that's how we ended up with that tool. Which is a tool that if you believed the internet, you would say you're life is not completed unless you had one. Some tools and some ideas in wood working get a way more praise than what they warrant.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

OK

[@KPVFarmer]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. It’s refreshing to see and hear from you. You don’t fill a video with dramatics and unnecessary fluff. Not saying anything bad about other channels, yours gets to the point. I like to learn and absorb high quality techniques. Cheers 🍻

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks, I'm not into drama, I mill wood for a living, and drama means problems, and a good operation doesn't have lots of drama. Boring to watch, but real life.

[@rodteel5084]

Great info thankyou wonder what your thoughts are on carbide tip blades?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

They are nice, but not worth the money in most cases. A well tuned saw will cut just as flat and fast with a metal band as with a carbide. They do have their uses, though.

[@kevinalbeartie8499]

Well done, would to add just one thing to your discussion/ explanation. Wood species, some woods have fibres that “rebound”; as the fibres are removed during the cut, the remaining adjacent fibres swell into the kerf, which can minimize or eliminate the clearance, destabilizing the blade in the saw kerf just produced. In conclusion some hardwoods require a softwood set ( larger tooth set) to cut nice and straight. There’s aerodynamics at play in the saw kerf, the high speed blade passing through the kerf creates a vacuum to help pull ( eject) the sawdust out plus what comes out in the gullet. You’re 100% correct, there’s a lot going on in the blade / wood contact. Sorry, got a little into your business here…. Just passionate about milling, lol

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, the low pressure recirculation zone and the phenomenon of sawdust ejection is something I occasionally talk about, but for the purposes of this video, I didn't want to discuss the physics of band performance, but rather the physical properties that affect the band's performance. I appreciate your comments, and thanks for watching!

[@2drsdan]

@@HobbyHardwoodAlabama I rent a WM LT15 wide from a friend, and I regularly cut 30" dia larch logs. That's a lot of sawdust in the kerf and we are having too much blade wander. The owner uses silvertip blades I'm not sure of the tooth angle but from your discussion, I feel the set is too narrow for the width of the cut and we also should switch to diesel lube. Thoughts, Idea's? nice vids, thanks.

[@joehuinker7009]

Great information Robert!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks!

[@kitb9948]

Another outstanding, informative video. Thanks Robert!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Very welcome

[@rodmiller8617]

I hope I don’t wear you out with questions. You were right about Wood-Mizer liking to push double hard. His reasoning was you get more sharpening with the double hard than the silver tips. Do you know if that’s correct or do you bother resharpening. Thanks for all your help

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

No, he is incorrect in my experience. A double hard, or any hardened body blade will fatigue crack and fail sooner than a more flexible resaw band, such as a Silvertip. The true advantage of a Double Hard is if you don’t have a debarker and you are having to cut through mud in the bark, the DH will stay sharper longer, but as far as number of sharpenings, there is no advantage to DH bands. Actually, exactly the opposite is true, the average number of sharpenings I get from DH bands is 2 to 3, and the average sharpenings of Silvertips I get is 3 or 4, before they fatigue crack and break. It is also dependent on the thickness of the band, WM 0.045 thic’ will have more flex life and more sharpenings than a thicker band, such as the 0.055”. Also, as you sharpens the width of the band decreases, and at some point, the band less wide than minimum on your band rollers, and they will take the set out of one side of the teeth. This is a good topic for a video, thanks.

[@allenvinson]

Mr. Robert have you ever sawn up any black oak or red maple? If so any thought on the species if it's worth messing with.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, quite a bit of both. Black oak rarely produces FAS or high grade lumber because it has lots of pin knots, or small knots, in the boards. So it produces lots of No 1 Common, but very little FAS. Red maple is a high value wood that we saw and sell a lot of. Most commercial cabinet makers use red maple, and it is a commercially valuable species.

[@allenvinson]

@@HobbyHardwoodAlabama thank you sir I have several I cut down on my property and am in the process of milling so I appreciate your feedback sir

[@jeffsatterfield6398]

Great information. And yes, you are my favorite

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yay! Thank you!

[@derekbush8442]

I'm running a serra me110 , what a learning curve going to a 5" band and 16-20 degree tooth angles. Took some time to figure out and am definitely still learning!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, there I always a learning curve, but sounds like you are on top of it.

[@KathyAndrew]

Thanks for talking about bands. I have a Cook mp32 mill and I use their bands. Was considering ordering some of those Kasco 4 degree bands, but thanks for warning me about the sawdust. As long as I get my blades sharpened well, my Cooks bands work great.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

You bet! Thanks!

[@willcoe8419]

I use cooks super sharp 8 deg. They do have pointy teeth but they are a hot rod in clean wood. I stay away from yard trees so they work for me

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

They are not called “Cats Claw” for a reason! The WM 747 seems to be a copy of the Cooks bands, same very sharp pointy teeth. They are good bands, I think it is funny that the manufacturers do everything to be different but better. WM has 7 and 9 degree, and Cooks has 8 degree. BTW, Cook’s brother lives the next town over from here, I’ve talked to both several times on the phone, years ago. They seemed to be good people.

[@_Ethann_]

I’ve been enjoying your videos for months. Just saw your bio and makes sense why you’re so good! Really appreciate the the details and making us better sawyers. I hope more people take your words heart, will make the lumber industry better. And the world at that! Got me fired up about milling!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks!

[@RandyCarter-b5g]

Another great tutorial from the Aero Engr. But you failed to mention what blade performs best upon hitting the first log stop?? 😂😂

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I have yet to find one that doesn't spark and screech real bad when I slam into them! I hadn't hit one in a couple years and only about month ago, I smoked it! You can see the gouges on some of my latest videos.

[@fastbrian33]

Robert - have you ever used the brand Kasco? I use a 1.5 .050 4 degree $23.00ea Kasco blade, and love the heck out of it!!! Super flat through knots and cuts white oak like butter!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, I have used Kasco a good bit, they are very good bands.

[@AnxiousCowboy]

What species you cutting with that band

[@rodmiller8617]

Thanks so much. Since I only have the 25 horse gas engine would you recommend the .045 thickness. Thanks again for your expertise and sharing

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, I had a 15 hp LT15 and used 7 degree x 0.045 with no problem.

[@jasonhopson7280]

Any suggestions on my Lx-50 super ?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Mount it solidly!

[@melebmotors]

i started out using 10 degree then i tried some 7s . then i ended up with a pile of blades that were different angles so i ground them all to 7 and thats all i use now

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Good for you, sounds like you have found the ones you like.

[@JoelAllen-xj4cg]

Have you ever tried a carbide tip blade?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

They are nice, but not worth the money in most cases. A well tuned saw will cut just as flat and fast with a metal band as with a carbide. They do have their uses, though.

[@JohnWinsemius]

Professor have you been on a sabbatical ? its been 9 days. I'm going through DT's . Hope all is well with you and Martha

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, time got away for us, we have been working dawn to dark with a bunch of things, and just didn't have the time to film and edit videos. I'm still way behind but catching up, so hopefully I'm over the hump for now.

[@ScooterTrampTv]

Please comment on blade size vs. horsepower. Does it make a difference?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, very much so, HP allows you to use a band that wil let you cut fast under all conditions, instead of just a few.

[@81dreus]

Great video. What about tooth spacing? 3/4" vs 7/8" spacing? How much does that matter to you compared with the other features?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I have used them, but the standard WM tooth spacing seems to work the best for me.

[@cecilchristopher5092]

I used to come over to Huntsville and work with the folks at MSIC were you there or over with the NASA folks?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I worked at the Propulsion Lab, of Weapons Development and Integration Directorate, while my wife, Martha worked at NASA. At one time or the other, I ran pretty much every propulsion and some explosive ranges at WDI including Russel Tower. We certainly did a lot with MSIC.

[@2drsdan]

Robert when you used a WM LT15 what band did you find worked best on that saw?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Typically I liked WM Frozen 7 Double Hard, .045 x 1.25" with my LT15.

[@b.ellison396]

Thank you for the content Robert! I was about to ask you what you thought about Cook's bands. We're on the same wave length!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

You got it!

[@woodycox5496]

what does the 7/39 represent on the silver tip turbo?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

7 is the attack or front angle, 39 represents the back angle

[@MRBoatwrights]

I have been sawing southern yellow pine pretty much full time for the last three months. I am running a brand new lt40 super with command control and all the options plus an eg100 edger. I cut alot of post, beams and 1" boards. I would like to know what the process is to get designated as a pro sawyer because I think it would look good on my business cards.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

The first way for a new full time Sawyer would be to register with #WoodMizer on their "Pro Sawyer" network, which would certainly give you the title if you qualify. I am listed there and it is a good place for people to search for you and for you to get new jobs and referrals. However, I consider the definition of a Pro Sawyer as one who runs a sawmill business, or is the lead Sawyer of a sawmill business, as a full time job, has been doing it long enough and productively enough to support the company and employees salaries for a sustained time. In my case, I have been sawing for decades, brought in many millions of dollars of income for my company, sawn I don't know how many million board feet, have taken courses on lumber grading, teach the occasional sawmilling class, both in person and at exhibitions, am a member of the BBB and is listed on Dunn and Bradstreet. I am also an administrator on the largest sawmill Forum in the world. As I think about it, what does it take to be called a Professional anything? Interesting question.

[@MRBoatwrights]

@@HobbyHardwoodAlabama Thanks for the response. I have been watching your videos for a while and I have never questioned the fact that you are indeed a pro sawyer. I ment for the comment to be taken as sarcasm and I hope that is the way you took it. I enjoy asking people sarcastic questions just to see what there response is and a lot of times it makes people think about something they have never thought about. I am running an entirely different type of sawmilling business than yours, my favorite things to saw is longleaf pine and cypress. But I apply all the same philosophys that you teach in your videos I am always trying to get the highest quality lumber from every logs. I prefer 16' or 20' logs 20" or bigger. That allows me to get alot of board footage stacked up. What forum are you an referring to and are there any sawmill events in the southeast that you would recommend I attend? I am in South Carolina about 45 miles SE of Charlotte NC.

[@taftamick54]

Ahight... You've already done the homework... What band are you using right now? I'm gon buy a box! Thanks Robert...

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I use Woodmizer SilverTip Turbo 7/39 x 055 -1.5" wide by Joe Maine, his contact info is below.

[@easttnscott7629]

What do you think about Ripper37 bands?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I used them some time ago, they were goodish, but I had trouble getting the thickness I wanted, so I didn't pursue them.

[@make-somedust]

Can I change the (set) from factory to what works better for me? Is this advised or no?

[@walshwoodworks8964]

Yes

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, no problem, generally the range should be from abut .020" to .035" for most bands otherwise problems start to begin.

[@Z-Bart]

Good stuff Robert. I guess I'm not too old to learn. Lol. Roll Tide Roll.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Roll Tide!

[@doc3356]

Another informative video! I wonder if we tend to run what we are confident with and tune the mill around that, instead of doing your method and finding out what the mill truly runs best. Thanks for the incentive to engage the ole noodle!!!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks! I have never had a mlll that didn't like one band in particular, over all the others. Always, it wasn't the one shipped or recommended initially by the manufacturer.

[@jlooseround]

Nice video. I do have a question, not concerning this video, but I was wanting to get your opinion on another aspect of milling. I don't want to gunk up your comments. Do you have an email address so I can send you the question?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

[e-mail]