Can Tang Soo Do beat Shotokan?

[@MichaelDBruce]

I'm loving this series. Imagine a world.where all the martial artists of the world share, collaborate and compare in the spirit of kindness. This and the kempo videos are just fantastic.

[@TetaroSeth]

Michael Bruce That is a pleasant fantasy.

[@SenseiIchi]

I love that world! Thank you so much for your kindness and open mind. I'm glad you are enjoying them and I can't wait for you to see the final episodes of both segments.

[@tellitlikeitis5045]

That would be great 👍🏿

[@terrenceescarda8951]

That's what Funakoshi, Oyama, Miyagi, and Ueshiba really want. no politics, inflated egos and excessive gimmicks.

[@honigdachs.]

I originally started in Shotokan before switching to Okinawa Goju Ryu. Competing in Shotokan kata is not an easy feat for other stylists. Everything in Shotokan tends to be super exact, very isometric, very firm and rigid, with painstaking attention to detail. Very strong, low stances, always great power in the techniques. It's quite demanding for all of us who are used to higher, more natural stances or more flowing type of movement, so it takes guts wanting to compete in this discipline.

[@Plantaman]

@Henrick Boot shotokai is as fluid as you can get, from a shotokan lineage.

[@zyx7478]

I have to agree with you in many ways one time during a presentation at a school event, middle school, I was working there as a teacher. I was dressed up in a suit and tie and we had some performers performing Kyokushinkai katas for the crowd. They asked me even though I was on duty as a teacher to perform with them side-by-side but I did my forms as a Shotokan stylist. After the performance those black build said that they liked my forms better than theirs. I did not know how to feel honored or embarrassed but it was a beautiful day

[@OptimumSlinky]

I love that Shawn's black belt is hanging on by mere threads and practically white again. Dude's had it a LONG time.

[@SenseiIchi]

Do you think we'll medal or will we not make the cut? Comment with Medal or Cut...

[@Drizztblades]

From what I can tell if you keep remembering arm stay normally for blocks at shoulder level you may metal. Shotokan moves need a little more speed hip movements when moving through the moves. Either way you look good doing Shotokan!

[@tomg2946]

Observations: Sensei Ichi, your kata looks the closest to Shotokan, the other blokes not bad, but needs more 'lock' at end of each technique. The woman (forgive me I didnt catch her name), wasn't bad, same locking problem, but also her 'front backfist' portion of the kata was too low, it shouldnt be at her solar plexus level, but at her chin level (no higher). By the way, an aside, I reckon the TSDo plus Modern Shotokan you are all doing here, actually looks closer to the Shotokan of the earlier decades (say pre 1970), in fact close to the old 1940s, early 1950s films Ive seen! Alot of the stance lengthening plus other movements got introduced later, progressively after Yoshitaka Funakoshi and his successors modified the original Shotokan of Gichin Funakoshi. One of the reasons Ohtsuka left and formed Wado kai, I believe. Advice? 1. On the front stances like the Shotokan bbelt said, lock the rear leg straight. In addition- Make the leading leg bent at the knee so you can only just see the edge of the toes if you looked down at them. And from my experience in Shotokan.. make the leading leg in a front stance so that that foot is turned slightly inwards (say 10degrees in), while bracing that leg (twisting tension) outward -this locks the leg in its bent position with 70% of weight on front leg, rest of weight on rear leg. I found that twisting tension of the front leg helped the shotokan stances with exception of the back stance. Grip the floor with that front foot. 2. As bbelt said for knife hand blocks preparatory position from very close to the ear. That would be true also for gedan barai, low block using the fist. 3. Are you wearing TSDo uniforms at the tournament? Just based on my experience at Shotokan tournaments, I reckon you disadvantaged if you are clearly from another style. Theyre going to be actually looking for differences if its clear you're all not 'Shotokan people' . So, wear a plain white gi, no black piping. And, preferably make it heavyweight canvas , and starch it ready for the day, so it can sound like a 'crack' on each move. All the very best to all of you on the day. Im reckoning at least one medal is probable. 👍

[@SenseiIchi]

@Drizztblades Thank you so much for the suggestions, I keep trying to remind myself of those basic details. That is one of the more challenging things to remember, block low, deeper stances, pop harder! Thank you! I hope the judges like my Shotokan!

[@SenseiIchi]

@Tom G Wow thank you so much, that is some fantastic advice. I shared it with Becky, she says thank you, she will work on that. It has been a challenge trying to adjust and imitate Shotokan's technique that is so much different than ours. Breaking that habit for all of us is challenging but it is a very fun and awesome challenge. We all now have all white gi's , we didn't want to do anything to make the judges see us in a negative light. The only thing they'll see on us that is different, its the Korean characters on our belts. Anxious to see what they think of our hybrid style.

[@MrJoshDoty]

Sensei Ichi very cool! I practiced Shotokan in college many years ago and cross training was almost anathema. This is great to see. Best wishes.

[@handsomestik]

'let them fight" - Ken Watanabe

[@danielreid3476]

Essentially TSD and Shotokan are variations on the same themes. Shotokan stances are typically deeper. But Tang Soo Do has more of a gentle flow of its' techniques, more reminiscent of its Okinawan and Chinese origins. Shotokan has more of a brutal application of its' techniques, and Shotokan katas look more like military drill. Neither system is better than the other. They both have their pluses and minuses. They both really compliment each other quite nicely and I believe practitioners of both styles could benefit tremendously from cross training with each other.

[@SenseiIchi]

That is very accurate @Daniel Reid I know I have learned heaps of information training in Shotokan these past few months. I am half Japanese so I felt a strong connection to Shotokan for sure. Gave me a chance to touch on some of my Japanese heritage, it also gave me a chance to pay more attention to my squats after all these deep Shotokan stances ugghhh!

[@TSkin71]

Agreed... Sa Dan TSD

[@instructorlex8273]

Wow how beautiful is this to see the styles come together through the humility and eagerness to learn of the martial artists. Great!

[@zyx7478]

Tang Soo Do and Shotokan is or should be sister arts. I have practiced both Arts and feel comfortable doing each of the styles respectively yet I only tested for one because I thought the testing for both would be kind of a redundancy

[@MountainAdventures1]

We currently have a Shotokan black belt in our school who is just starting with Tang Soo Do. He picks up each of our Pyong Ahn forms in like 10 minutes because they are basically just modified Pinan forms. So my advice would be to do what he is doing, just in reverse. You can pick up Pinan Shodan in no time and it looks really cool.

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you for the advice. Yes I have noticed and seen how similar the Heian kata's are to Tang Soo Do forms. We're just going to stick with one of our Tang Soo Do forms and hope the judges enjoy it.

[@dabossbabie3605]

It's a pretty good series :). The impossible goal of learning all the arts, and then combining them all to make the optimal one. Unreasonable, yet a driving goal.

[@SenseiIchi]

Well said!

[@dabossbabie3605]

@@SenseiIchi Keep up the good work! I won't be surprised if you make a variation of Tang Soo Do or something else.

[@SenseiIchi]

@@dabossbabie3605 Thank you. We kind of did already. Mixing Krav maga self defense mixed with Jujitsu into our Tang Soo Do. I like it, think its very well rounded now.

[@ericabernard2896]

Tang soo do is very aggresive and effective and shotokan they are very simular i think if you have a great teacher and training you can excel in both styles,so keep practicing and be the very best to your style.

[@kisokuman]

I am shotokan and it's very interesting this video. Thanks for your job

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@catecohen7993]

Such hard work! Good luck!

[@SenseiIchi]

Yes, hours and hours of hard work. Let's hope it pays off! Thank youuuuuu!

[@ericabernard2896]

This teacher is good with speed,technique,power and such, so you how they can flow together a great video guys thx for sharing and keep working out and eat your vitamins.

[@everythingbodyweight7012]

Beautiful.I love Martial Arts,I love this channel.I think both Shotokan and Tang Soo Do are very similar especially since Tang Soo Do is based on Shotokan Karate mixed with tekkyeon and some Chinese Kung Fu,which makes Tang Soo Do Korea's version of Karate.The two arts also share some kata or poomsae like Passai/Bassai.Only difference is Tang Soo Do has a variety of kicks from tekkyeon,the native Korean Martial Arts and,which makes Tang Soo Do,Karate on steroids.

[@kimuseni]

Tang Soo Do forever!

[@SenseiIchi]

Right?! That's what I'm talking about!

[@Drizztblades]

Good luck have fun I practice Shotokan so I am looking forward to see the competition

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you! I'm nervous and anxious, can't wait until the tournament get's here!!!

[@nhamilton9537]

Stick with your Tang Soo Do forms.. For the simple reason that, they still bear a large semblance to Shotokan ( itself a derivative of Shorin Ryu ) . In the past, Shorin Ryu and Tang Soo Do trained side by side and even competed without the necessity for any modifications. As you are no doubt aware Tang Soo Do ( China Hand Way) is the old name of Karate before the characters were changed in the 1930's. Just as Japan modified Okinawa-te into Shotokan.. Korea modified Shotokan into Tang soo Do. Same tree.

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you for sharing. I will!

[@hamzadesidragonsarwar]

Yeh I know it’s hard my sensi does it so naturally and I am from kickboxing so I have to transition from that to a more balanced grounded style

[@KelvindeWolfe]

Interesting watching children’s qigong exercises taken Okinawa te becoming what is now considered a martial art. Without being martial. Bravo Gichin Funakoshi you managed to hide the secret teachings from two empires and their vassal states.👏👏👏

[@terrenceescarda8951]

I love to see that he has a photo of Gichin Funakoshi.

[@agelesskarate]

Both styles are great. Im seen fighters in Tang Soo Do that were amazing!

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you!

[@SonicPAJ]

So nostalgic! I trained there back in 2010.

[@SenseiIchi]

You did ? That's rad! Shawn is a great man and a greaatttt instructor.

[@SonicPAJ]

@@SenseiIchi Yeah. Sensei Victor Young was the head instructor back then though. I believe Sensei Shawn was still addressed as "Senpai". I don't know if he'd remember me though. I now train American Kenpo at the "American Academy of Self-Defense" in Newbury Park.

[@SenseiIchi]

@@SonicPAJ That's very cool, glad you found the video and the channel! Thank you for sharing.

[@ThePenroseIncident]

I remember my Hapkido teacher always saying:"Tang soo do is closer to shotokan than it is to taekwondo."

[@cybermek]

In addition to learning Kanku-Dai, you guys should learn Jion!

[@SenseiIchi]

I've seen that their Jion looks very similar to one of our forms and its funny cuz we have a form named Jion that isn't anything like theirs...

[@robertkieffer8497]

Yep, enpi and bassai dai are 2 of my favorite's as well. I like watching how different schools compare to the way we do things at mine, its pretty neat

[@SenseiIchi]

Thats great! Check out the video on my channel of me doing our Tang Soo Do version of Enpi and Bassai... I'm glad you enjoyed the journey, thank you for watching and commenting.

[@SasquatchTX]

If competing at black belt level in this karate tournament, I would go with a black belt tang soo do form as prelim, unless you have months to learn a 2nd form. It takes a good while to get a handle on the basics. If you make it to round two, do the shotokan form.

[@SenseiIchi]

We're only allowed to preform a lower ranking form in the prelims. We decided on a Tang Soo Do form for the prelims and then Konkudai for the finals. I really really hope that we get a chance to preform Konkudai, just to see if we can make the cut doing a Shotokan kata in a Shotokan tournament. I want to show them what I can do! Thank you for your advice.

[@70mjc]

Mark McKenzie go with what occurs in the fight. Plans are meaningless because your opponent sure isn’t sticking to your plan

[@brycekeeney4995]

This was awesome!!!

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you! You're awesome.

[@williameusoufortedasilvara8908]

Ótima e maravilhosa Junção karatê Shotokan e Tang Soo Do São 2 arte marciais muito Fantásticas OSS! !!!💪💪💪👊

[@bluehoodie91]

I just came across this series! Currently a yellow-stripe in TSD, in the process of double-testing in a few months! I like this series!

[@SenseiIchi]

I'm glad you found it. What is double testing?

[@bluehoodie91]

@@SenseiIchi Double-testing is basically testing for 2 belts. Since I'm currently a yellow-stripe, I'll be testing for not only the orange belt but the orange stripe belt.

[@SenseiIchi]

@@bluehoodie91 wow, i've never heard of that before. Is that a common thing to do in your style or it just your school that does that?

[@carljansson3730]

Nr 7 and 9 are uchi uke’s against a chudan tsuki. Strange to start them at chest level and never block the attack?!? As the block is done, it never pass the chudan, just doing the defense too high.

[@Soldier-of-God.]

Excellent effort, dedication and perseverance, on your behalf and that of your students, to want to perfect the Shotokan Karate kata, before the competition. I personally feel that if in the preliminaries they might allow you to perform a Tang Soo Do form, that you should go with a Tang Soo Do form. At Kyokushin Karate tournaments, at times we have had stylists of Taekwondo, Kung Fu, as well as other styles of Karate, compete with their forms or katas. The reason being that the judges observing and assessing the forms or katas of other styles, other than our own, should be able to assess an individual from another style. Based on the same criteria as anyone from our own martial arts system, in terms of their proper stances, posture, composure, excellent control of power, speed and also to begin and finish their form or kata in the exact spot or as close to, from where they began their routine. Looking forward to seeing you and everyone compete at the Shotokan Karate tournament, Sensei Ichi! All the best to you all, I am sure you will all perform superbly, Osu! Juan ☺ ✌ 👍.

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you Juan! We never train to be mediocre, in the beginning we all decided to go all the way in this journey. We train to succeed and win, 100% . We're going to go with a Tang Soo Do form for the preliminaries, it will be the true test to see if our Tang Soo do is strong enough to cut it in their Shotokan world.

[@Soldier-of-God.]

@@SenseiIchi you are most welcome, all the best at the Shotokan tournament, with your preliminary Tang Soo Do form. I am certain that you will all perform well Sensei Ichi. Glad to see that you strive for excellence and high standards, rather than be complacent with mere mediocrity, Osu! 👍

[@mikebalitao5117]

you should do a shotokan low form then a tang soo doo form

[@TetaroSeth]

Shotokan form! It’s fun to watch you try the new stuff.

[@SenseiIchi]

We decided on Heian Godan, but our version of it. Called Pyong an oh dan, very similar kata. If we do make it through to the finals, we'll do Konkudai... I hope that we get the chance to do it... Wish us luck!

[@ericabernard2896]

swamp rat and swamp b was made up by a special teacher in the south, we miss him so much ,such a very hard kata ever.

[@AKXSL_]

The Kushanku kata always differs in other styles

[@SenseiIchi]

I've seen many versions of this kata we're doing it, which makes me believe that the judges will have an open mind and heart when they see ours.

[@danskarate997]

If your katas are similar do hyung yondan or heian yondan in Japanese. it's easy for you to modify as a shotokan practitioner I have to say sensei eichi I'm very impressed you have an open mind and great charisma. Best of luck oss.

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you for the suggestions, we decided to do Heian Godan. Well our version of it at least, its extremely similar and we feel very confident with it. Thank you for the compliment, that means a lot. Can't wait for you to see the end result!

[@Plantaman]

I LOVED watching this! Some bunkai would do wonders to understand some movements better, I think...

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you! Others have suggested the same, I will look into the Bunkai and can't wait to see how it changes our kata.

[@hmoniemiller1691]

Which is better?

[@garthewar]

It's crazy how many styles of karate there are. I'm shotokan. So tang soo do is a compliation of this and a few other things. Very interesting

[@SenseiIchi]

Right?! They call Tang Soo Do, Korean Karate. One can definitely see the similarities and the differences , especially in this series.

[@garthewar]

@@SenseiIchi most definitely. Many of the movement resembles karate. Beautiful art though :)

[@row7820]

You guys should also Check out Jion too. It's very similar to your styles'.

[@SenseiIchi]

We also have a form called Jion... I shall look into it, thank you.

[@Pyrendri]

I think you should do a Tang Soo Do form in the preliminaries and the Shotokan form if you move forward.

[@SenseiIchi]

That's exactly what we decided on! I just hope the judges enjoy our version of one of their kata. We just have to stay low and hit hard! Thank you for your suggestion!

[@ericabernard2896]

@@SenseiIchi Dear sensei you seem very precise on your technique i can see you are very good thx for sharing your kata and i will keep watching shotokan styles.

[@dapuzzles2300]

I have a question and wondered how you feel about this. I've been doing Tang Soo Do for many years now and I got my Forth Dan Master Belt a few mouths ago but sort of about the same time we were changing government body's and there were a few things that were changed and this bought up a disagreement with a few of the member of my class including one of the instructors I teach with. One of the requirements was that black belts should be removed and replaced with midnight blue, they state this is because black is supposed represent death/ending so once you've reach black belt you should know all there is to know. So the fact that there's a Black Belt Second Dan shows that there is still more to learn so therefor you shouldn't be a Black Belt (for lact of a better way to phase that) I decided that I wanted to stick to having a Black Belt along with a few other students (one being a Master, one Black Belt and a Gup grade so all of us have a different reason for wanting to stick) so as you're wearing a Black belt I were curious at where you would stand on that?

[@SenseiIchi]

I can see the meaning and reasoning behind not wearing black , so that it does not represent death. I know that in the Japanese culture , the Japanese refrain from many things to not represent death. I myself just recently started wearing a royal blue belt on because I like the old school way. No bars, no stripe through the center, just my name and Tang Soo Do in Korean characters. Chuck Norris started wearing a black belt from wearing a royal blue because he was tired of people asking him if he was a blue belt or black. To save the headache and stay with the times he just started wearing black. In the end the belt doesn't make the man, its just something to signify rank to a certain extent. Take it to a vote, but in the end the color of the belt shouldn't matter. I wouldn't let that get in the way of keeping harmony in the school and your organization. I hope that helped.

[@MilSpec105]

The midnight blue is a common variation in TSD. The high quality belts are so dark it’s hard to tell. So, it’s not super drastic. I personally wouldn’t want to swap out my belt for sentimental reasons but the midnight blue belts are nice.

[@dapuzzles2300]

@@MilSpec105 I guess the ones I've seen were a little lower quality/old haha, but yeah everyone that wanted to stick with black has been given the choice to I were just wondering were everyone else stood on that (:

[@MilSpec105]

@@dapuzzles2300 I actually almost replaced my black belt with a midnight blue belt, but Kataaro was able to add some length and replace the embroidery in my old belt so I kept it.

[@dapuzzles2300]

@@MilSpec105 I'm going to end up with two master belts in the end as I were given a plain one as I waited for mine to be made with all of my details on

[@Tatsuhiko94]

I think you should stick with a TSD kata this year, then go back and learn another Shotokan form for next year. Will you be competing in sparring as well?

[@SenseiIchi]

Well we competed today and you'll see what happens and what we decided on Thursday 11am pst. We did not compete in Kumite.

[@SteveGaddTasmusic]

Great work.. keep the tailbone tucked and stances low...try and move at a regular line/height..explode from the ground. don't hold the hands too high and don't rise when moving and kicking and that pretty much turns tang So Do forms into Shotokan forms... be interesting to see some Shotokan karateka doing some Tang So Do forms too....

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you, getting used to doing the shotokan stances and blocks is one of the hardest things to adjust to. Thank you for the suggestions, I will definitely work on all these suggestions everyone is giving me, to make this kata the best it can be. I'll see if Shawn would be willing to learn one of our kata... Video Idea!!!

[@SteveGaddTasmusic]

@@SenseiIchi Thanks for the reply.. following you work... love your collaborative approach..

[@SenseiIchi]

@@SteveGaddTasmusic My pleasure, thank you for following. Can you think of any other collabs you'd like to see?

[@SteveGaddTasmusic]

@@SenseiIchi Having touched on a Japanese root style you could go in the other direction and get some Taekkyon artists to share moves. If there are any in the US.

[@sonnygallo5662]

Shotokan is excellent. TSD is excellent. Goodbye. 🐯

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you. Thank you. Hello.

[@Qagent001]

Both styles are similar and different as people...

[@johnnysticks772]

Great work sensei a Lot of effort gone into this hope it all works out in the end. you should changed signed off for nite that was in to "shotoooo kan" 😁

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you! Lots of effort has gone into this for sure, I hope that we make it through the prelims and into the final round. I want to go all the way, heart and soul. Hahaha that's a good sign off.

[@johnnysticks772]

@@SenseiIchi I have say fair play to you there is a Lot of guys out there with blinkers on wouldn't look outside their own art,thinking there is nothing any others could offer ! Good luck ☘☘

[@SenseiIchi]

@@johnnysticks772 True true. Thank you! i'll need it!

[@johnnysticks772]

@@SenseiIchi a no sure ye be grand!

[@danielarner1208]

As a JKA shotokan judge in my younger days, my prediction is you won’t make the cut.

[@SenseiIchi]

Well I won 3rd place sooooo don't bet on the horses my friend.

[@danielarner1208]

Congrats!

[@SenseiIchi]

Hey man thanks!

[@AllyCMa]

Like Honda and Hyundai

[@hngryviirider8710]

When Cobra Kai goes to All Valley :D

[@-phantastictin-665]

Shotokan form! It’ll be interesting!

[@SenseiIchi]

We'll be doing a similar kata to Heian Godan, our Tang Soo Do version of it. When we make it past the preliminary round we'll then do Konkudai

[@-phantastictin-665]

Sensei Ichi ahhh cool! Good luck on the tournament! Can’t wait to see it!

[@carolynpennock7061]

Good luck!

[@SenseiIchi]

Thank you!

[@breakingboardrooms1778]

Heads up, it's pronounced Kankudai. Learn any of the Taikyoku kata, or Heian Shodan, please! Also, your movements rock my socks off!

[@SenseiIchi]

Wow thank you, I can't believe I made that typo. Thank you for seeing that. I tried to pick up Heian Godan but I figured it was too late in the game to perfect it enough for competition. Thank you, thank you, did you need to borrow some socks then?

[@breakingboardrooms1778]

@@SenseiIchi best of luck in the tournament! Will y'all be sparring as well?

[@SenseiIchi]

@@breakingboardrooms1778 It already happened, it was last weekend. We did not spar, we didn't get a chance to learn the rules. From what I saw, the sparring is considerably different from how we spar. I would like to next year tho.

[@breakingboardrooms1778]

Okay, clearly my day has run a bit long. I'd like to take part in a tournament at some point, but not yet, and not sparring either!

[@SenseiIchi]

@@breakingboardrooms1778 Haha it's all good. Why not sparring?

[@benmollitor3776]

I do moo duk kwan TANGSOODO

[@rja9784]

I practice Ameri-Do-Te. I fear no man

[@cheswick617]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

[@lessmith1409]

Make it full contact. Most karate styles arent full contact.

[@TSkin71]

Tang Soo Do can "beat" Shotokan, and Shotokan can beat Tang Soo Do. It's very similar styles - depends on the practitioner. - TS / Sa Dan

[@attieschutte7116]

Now put on gloves and fight, what you get is kickboxing! jKD vs TKD =kickboxing, gogu ruy vs boxing= kickboxing, TSD vs Shito ruy =Kickboxing, Shotokan vs Thai boxing = kickboxing. The moment they all actually fight you get kickboxing.

[@adamhehir6046]

If mr miagi was in cobra Kia omg lets remember he beat Terry Silva kreese and barnes in 3 mins 🤣

[@michealtomelloso3912]

As a Martial Art practicioner and l think their acting like little children, in Kuk Sool Won we are taught not degrade other Martial Art practicioner's, l think we should all respect each other and their Martial Art, because they have worked hard in their style for probably all their life, l mean l don't Karate, but just like my styles that l practice, l bet the training is very demanding, l've alway's liked watching other Martial Art demonstrations and l believe it all to be one thing DISCIPLINE!

[@raymondborrero9184]

No are de same in some ways

[@chadmartin6958]

You're not going to fight dang it 😒

[@Blashkyrk]

Honestly, that belt is just ridiculously worn and way to long. Get a new one, the knowledge and experience is not stored in the belt but in your body ;) Kanku Dai is a cool kata though!

[@SenseiIchi]

He got a new one. The belt is full of secrets, that's why its so long...

[@Blashkyrk]

@@SenseiIchi 🤣 looks like it's leaking!

[@SenseiIchi]

@@Blashkyrk HAH. Nice .

[@ponnarajashekhar760]

katas won't win a fight but burn your bumb for sure ! , shotokan katas are a mechanical mess good for fat burning less practical and more far away from a real fight ! .👍