Can the Malectrics Spot Welder Do A Copper Sandwich Weld - Pure Nickel, Pure Copper - Let's Find Out

This is a re-visit to the Malectrics Spot Welder, to answer a query from a commentor of the video posted. Have you tried a Copper Sandwich Weld? No I have not --- Until this video…
I truly hope that you enjoy this test, and if you have any questions of other things that you would like for me to try, please don’t hesitate to ask, and I will do my best to create a video just for you and your question. Thank you for stopping by, and God bless us everyone.
--Contents of this video-------------
00:00 - Introduction
01:30 - Go to the bench
03:00 - What is a Sandwich Weld?
03:27 - Proper Spot Weld Technique
03:42 - Malectrics Spot Welder at 40% Power
04:01 - Malectircs Spot Welder at 60% Power
04:32 - Malectircs Spot Welder at 75% Power
05:03 - Malectircs Spot Welder at 100% Power
05:43 - Spot Weld with Copper Only
06:40 - Let's try with a Nickel Plated Steel strip
07:21 - Spot Welding with 0.15 Pure Nickel Strip
09:41 - Overview of test
10:27 - Spot Welding with 0.235 Pure Nickel Strip
12:05 - Final Thoughts
14:45 - Outro
If you like this type of video, please let me know in the comments about a subject you would like to discuss and I will do my best to create a video on that subject, or if you have a video idea for a DIY project, A review of a product or anything else, I will be happy to create that content as well.
Thanks for stopping by, and remember - find someone who needs to laugh, needs to smile, needs to cry, or just simply needs a friend - and make it happen ;).
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Equipment used in the making of this video…
There are no affiliate links here.
* Malectrics Spot Welder V4:
malectrics.eu/
* Feelworld Livepro L1:
www.feelworld.ltd/collections...
* Livepro Firmware Update:
www.feelworld.ltd/blogs/news/...
* XPOSE Software MAC:
cdn.shopifycdn.net/s/files/1/...
* XPOSE Software Windows:
www.dropbox.com/s/gvebqhhnbfk...
* XPOSE App for Android:
cdn.shopifycdn.net/s/files/1/...
* XPOSE User Manual L1V1:
cdn.shopifycdn.net/s/files/1/...
Recording/Sound Equipment:
Zoom H1n: zoomcorp.com/en/us/handheld-r...
Microphone - Boya By-BM3011: www.boya-mic.com/shotgunmicro...
Camera's I use in making videos:
1. Cannon Vixia HF R600 Camcorder: The following is a “Search” link for a Cannon Vixia HF R600 on eBay:
www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...
2. Akaso-V50 Pro SE Action Cam: www.akasotech.com/v50-pro-se

[@aliancemd]

The material on top needs to be the least conductive option you have, like a thin(0.1mm) nickel-plated steel, because the resistance in the metal transforms that sudden rush of electrons into heat, heating up the metal on top and that one melting the metal below. You can even cut little squares(1 cell) to put on top of copper because the metal on top doesn’t contribute to conducting electricity(for this small load), it will take the path of least resistance and that is copper. On a side note, you can check if it’s pure nickel by taking the volume(L x l x thickness/height) and weighting it - then you can take that to an online calculator to get the values of what a specific material should weigh at that volume.

[@Outside-In.]

Thanks Lilian for the information - much appreciated. Good to know that the nickel is only used to fuse the copper to the cell. I like using a corrosion solution to test pure nickel, but the weight of nickel sounds interesting as well. 👍

[@DroneSurf]

@@Outside-In. The more resistant the better. As @allacemed mentioned, the nickel-steel has much resistance and that is converted in heat and that is good to weld copper. Copper alone does not weld well because is so conductive that does not give a chance to the welder to produce heat and weld, unless you use a powerful welder using Flux between the copper and the battery.,

[@Outside-In.]

​@@DroneSurf Thank you Drone Surf, you are exactly right. I am learning as I go with spot welding, and it is comments like yours that help not just me, but everyone who reads them, so thanks for the information, very helpful - and much appreciated. 👍👍🤏

[@ZebbMassiv]

Ah. Glad I went with the Glitter 801D . Was so close to pulling the trigger on this one.

[@Outside-In.]

Just looked at the Glitter 801D - Nice for sure, but expensive. But I guess you can get better if you pay much more. would like to give that one a try, but the expense is much more than I can do.

[@akinnon2000]

first spot weld a very thin strip of nickel, then sandwich a copper strip under another very thin nickel strip. Dont bother coppering the paralel connections, just do the series one.

[@Outside-In.]

Thank you for your comment and insight - much appreciated. I never thought of that. 👍

[@aerolithiumbatteries8152]

Hey .. to properly do this test, you MUST have a separation between the electrode materials. I cut my strips lengthwise so the current goes down into the strips. please repeat test thanks

[@Outside-In.]

Thanks for the suggestion. I was about to point you to another video where I successfully welded copper and nickel, but I see you already looked at that. I am not sure what you mean by "you MUST have a separation between the electrode materials". forgive me if I sound dumb, but I have been working on a new video, and haven't had a chance to "change gears" yet LOL.

[@mrludicrous1670]

Nickel have higher resistance making enough heat to fuse the copper to I think

[@Outside-In.]

Yes Mr. Ludicrous, you are right, and thanks for your comment and guess... 👍👍

[@GabrielKozsar]

It could be that the current rushes through the strip at the shortest distance , instead of going through the cell tab. A strip with a gap might give better results. See what the power tool manufacturers use , most strip have the gap between the spot welds , they also use pretty thick tabs. In case of Bosch GBA pack ~0.34mm.

[@Outside-In.]

Thanks Gabriel for the comment. Good point, and I will have to look into that, as it makes allot of sense. The Malectics only states it can spot weld up to about .2 or so mm, so I was trying to weld a total of about .4+mm LOL, so am assuming that is why it wouldn't weld. Also pure copper being more difficult, also likely that is why copper by itself wasn't welding either. Malectrics also doesn't state that the welder will weld copper, so it wouldn't be fair for me to "dis" the Malectrics because it wouldn't weld something the company doesn't even acknowledge it will weld. I thought this was a pretty cool test to perform though as it was asked for me to try. I think if I tried thinner copper strip, it may work... 0.1mm copper and 0.1mm nickel, but for now I would have to wait for a test like that since I don't have any copper strip that size.

[@mikeinglett3994]

Copper needs to be thinner. 0.1mm is the common thickness used for nickel&copper sandwich.

[@Outside-In.]

Thank you for the info. I did find that out and created a new video with thinner copper, and it did much better. 👍

[@maritaquality]

When welding sheet metal it is common practice to put a strip of copper behind what you are welding as a heat sink to control the heat to prevent burning through. The metal been welded does not stick to the copper, an advantage in using it. Like wise in heavier stick welding, a strip of cooper behind the weld prevents it burning through without the copper sticking to the steel.

[@Outside-In.]

Thank you Marita for the comment. Am I right to assume that you are trying to say that, that is the reason spot welding cooper is nearly impossible?.

[@Dani-js2ge]

Just to confirm your theory: The malectrics is able to weld 0.1 mm copper with 0.1 mm nickel plated steel on top with ease. I'm able to do it with a pulse time of just 26 ms using a 740 CCA car battery as a power source. As far as I know copper is about 4 times more conductive than pure nickel thus it won't heat up enough with the current that these "hobby grade" spot welders are able to handle. The nickel strips provide the necessary heat during the welding process to make the copper stick to the battery. Greetings from Austria

[@Outside-In.]

Thanks Dani. I was thinking the same thing about using thinner copper and nickel would more than likely work for sure, as the Malectrics is quite powerful. I should have gotten thinner copper. I didn't realize how very hard it is to spot weld copper until this video. It is great to know that you yourself have welded .1mm copper to .1mm nickel.

[@Outside-In.]

@@robertschrauder7537 I will do my best to create a video, as that would be much more interesting than sending a photo ;).

[@Outside-In.]

@@robertschrauder7537 Great information Robert, and thanks for your help. I will definitely keep that in mind.

[@Outside-In.]

@@robertschrauder7537 You are very welcome Robert, and look forward to creating that video. 👍

[@Outside-In.]

@@robertschrauder7537 Robert, this is to let you know, that I found 0.1mm Pure Copper, and 0.1mm Nickel Plated Steel Strips, and placed the order. Should have in a few days, and will be very happy to create a video for you. Nickel Plated Steel on top of Pure Copper - Spot welded to an 18650. Keep fingers crossed, as I do hope this works, and I am sure it should - the Malectrics is pretty powerful, but I used too thick of copper, not too mention pure nickel instead of plated steel...

[@ron.owensby]

Is that Setting (40, 60 75 etc milliSeconds or percentage? @ about 11:35 the reason it is "puffed" is because you are pulling the strip off. Tere would be some heat on the top of the battery but current is not going thru the battery.

[@Outside-In.]

It is miliseconds. No current going through the battery, but yes the heat will go up as the milliseconds are increased.

[@markb1911]

Nickel is not nearly as conductive as other metals that are commonly used like copper, gold, silver, or aluminum, but, it’s for that reason that it remains a popular choice for DIY. The nickel’s higher resistance is the reason it welds more easily, as with more resistance there is more heat being generated at the welding electrodes, allowing it to be welded with equipment that isn’t industrial-grade, and very expensive. It takes thousands of amps to reliably weld copper strip directly to the cell, however by placing the nickel on top, the current must pass through the higher resistance nickel along with the copper, increasing the heat sufficiently that the copper can also be welded with the nickel.

[@Outside-In.]

Thanks Mark for the information - makes perfect sense. I created another video by request, and used thinner copper that worked much better, and like you say - using less-than industrial grade welders, is going to make it difficult to do a sandwich weld, but with the proper gauge copper - it is possible to achieve. 👍

[@markb1911]

@@Outside-In. Nice, I’ll check out the video! And yes you’re right, I should’ve mentioned I was referring to welding only the copper strip directly to a cell that takes substantial higher amounts of amperage, and that the sandwich method allows for much less current to be used versus welding just copper strip to battery.

[@Outside-In.]

@@markb1911 It was great that someone asked me to visit this video again, because at the time, I didn't find any copper strips that were very thin for the test, so why I had to use what I had, which turned out to be way too thick, and in turn, unfair to the spot welder I was using, but the thinner copper, worked very well. And you are right.... Trying to spot weld copper by itself, is extremely hard to do, but always a fun test regardless right?... Thanks for clarifying your comment, and also your insights - they are much appreciated. 👍

[@markb1911]

@@Outside-In. Yes indeed I do enjoy testing spot welding different types of strips, and just for fun I like to order inexpensive spot welder boards from ebay etc. to see if I can modify them to work consistently, and as intended without letting the smoke out! It’s usually the drive circuitry for the FETs on almost all of them that is the weak point. Although I have a couple of those sub-$20 welders working well, they aren’t designed for, and don’t have duel-pulse functionality. I’ve been looking into the different choices for a reliable FET style welder with duel-pulse functionality, and ended up purchasing this Malectrics one, the v4. I like it’s modularity, and use of the Arduino for timing control for the customization ability of an open source platform. I’m going to see how it welds using a 4s-2p headway (12.8v lifepo4) bank as a power source, and then go from there. Thanks for the helpful videos!

[@Outside-In.]

@@markb1911 Glad you liked the video. I like fooling around with less than capable devices, and boosting them as well. Have fun with the Malectrics, and thanks for the comment, much appreciated.

[@evansste]

Thanks for the helpful video. I'm planning on spot welding two copper sheets together. Each one is 0.0028 inches thick. At first, I figured that the Malectrics should be able to do it, if I use a car battery that will supply up to 800 amps. However, after watching your video, I'm not so sure. I was looking to buy a spot welder. I had narrowed my options to the Malectrics or a Kweld. I ordered the Kweld, partly, because they seem to be able to deliver it, more quickly. Also, they tout being able to handle up to 2000 amps. In your video, you ask why copper is harder to spot weld, by itself. My understanding is because copper is, both, a great electrical conductor, as well as a good conductor of heat. This is a terrible combination, when it comes to electrical resistance welding. This is because the heat is generated by electrical resistance. So, because copper is a great conductor, it doesn't generate much heat, when conducting electricity. Also, because it's a good heat conductor, it acts better as a heat sink; meaning that the heat dissipates quickly -- preventing it from getting hot, easily. The only way to overcome these obstacles, is to dump a huge amount of electrical current into the welding circuit. Nickel doesn't conduct electricity as well as copper. It has more electrical resistance, and heats up easier. The copper and nickel strips are in parallel. Because copper is a better conductor, more current will run through the copper, but will generate less heat. Even still, some current will run through the nickel, and generate more heat. It's this heat that makes the weld form easier. When you remove the nickel, and the current goes through the copper, alone, less heat is generated, because copper is a better electrical conductor. This results in less of a weld, if any. As someone else pointed out, it seems as if your power source is the greatest factor. If you were using a source that provides more current, then you'd probably get better results. That was my original thought. Having said that, you say that you're using a Zeee 9000mAh, 11.1v battery. Based on what I could find, it seems as if this can put out up to 900 amps; which is a lot. According to Malectrics specs, the spot welder can handle a maximum of 800 amps. So, it can't deliver more than 800 amps, anyway. Because of this, the limit seems to be the welder, not your battery. This is all good for me to know, since my intent is to weld two copper sheets together. However, I'm still a bit puzzled that 800 amps wasn't enough current. The only other limiting factor, then, is the amount of time that the circuit is closed. You used a maximum time of 100 ms. Perhaps, if it were conducting for a longer period of time, it would melt. I have to believe that this is the case, since, I can't imagine shorting an 800 amp car battery, through a thin sheet of copper, and it not spark and melt. After all, jumper cables have to be big, for a reason. There's no way that a little, thin piece of copper could carry that much current, without melting. Malectrics states that the maximum pulse time can be set as high as 500 ms, instead of the default 100 ms; which is what you seem to be using. However, they warn that this could cause problems, since, too much current, for too long, could damage the MOSFETs in the device. This is another reason why I chose to go with Kweld, instead of Malectrics. Thanks, again, for the video. You've kept me from wasting time with the Malectrics. My copper is thinner, so, it may have worked. However, I, now, see just how much of a role time plays (not just current), and the limitations of the Malectrics.

[@Outside-In.]

Thank you evan for that information. I just checked my nickel strip again, and it is 0.77mm, and probably why it wouldn't weld. I set the Malectrics as high as it would go, and still no weld. The Kweld I guess would definitely work better, but I don't have that kind of money to spend LOL... Also, Malectrics does not claim to be able to spot weld pure nickel or copper strips either to be fair... The malectrics does very well with coated strips at very low power, but it just didn't seem to have enough to get through the pure nickel, which I guess is kinda a bummer, but not really, since most people are not going to be using pure nickel or copper anyhow, and most all my welding is done using coated nickel strips. I would really love to do a video on the Kweld, but like I say, I can not afford that welder right now. Thanks again for your comment and detail, and glad that the video helped you NOT make a mistake :)..

[@evansste]

@@Outside-In. You said that you set the Malectrics as high as it would go. Based on the video, it seems as if it was the highest while being set on the default setting; which maxes the pulse duration to 100 ms. In the video, when you state going to 100%, the Malectrics screen seems to be showing 100 ms. However, based on the following link, it appears that this default maximum setting can be increased from 100 ms to 500 ms: malectrics.eu/arduino-spot-welder-quick-start-guide-v4/ The above link was taken from the Malectrics website. If you go to it, you'll see that there's a section called "The System Menu". Under that section, there's a heading that reads "Max Pulse:". That's where I've obtained this information about the max pulse time being able to be set from 100 ms to 500 ms. However, it also states that setting it that high, could, potentially, cause damage to the device, if your power source provides a high current. I can understand why anyone would be hesitant to set the maximum to 500 ms, while the instructions state that there's potential risk of damaging the machine. I guess it's offered for those who choose to use a power source that provides less than 800 amps.

[@imperialsecuritybureau6037]

Useful video, thanks, I might have missed it but what’s your power source? As I understand it, the power source makes a big difference - perhaps enough to make this work. Is it a 12V battery, if so what CCA and Ah? I’m considering the k-weld but it’s hard to get and pretty costly, so if the Malectrics can do it that would be a plus!

[@Outside-In.]

Thanks for the comment and question. I am using a Zeee LiPo 9000mAh 11.1volt battery. I found that when I shortened the lead wire from the battery (11.5" total length) to the welder, it works much better. The Malectrics is pretty powerful, and successfully welds .3mm nickel very well which is hard to find a welder to do that. Yes, the Kweld will more than likely do the same thing, but like you say, it is quite expensive, and good to have if you have the money to spend, but I don't have that kind of money, and why I settled of the Malectrics, and have been very happy with it.

[@richardmahoney4531]

Hey Outside In - great vid - QUESTON : Thoughts on Maelectrics VS Kweld? thanks

[@Outside-In.]

Thank you for the question. I would love to compare the K weld, but unfortunately, I can't afford it. There are allot of great reviews for the K weld, I think if you were comparing prices, the Malectrics is very good for the price. The Kweld I am sure is a better option, but only if you can afford it lol.

[@richardmahoney4531]

sure sure - thanks old bean !@@Outside-In.

[@Outside-In.]

@@richardmahoney4531 👍

[@michaellinahan7740]

I have a previous version of this spot welder and, when everything is working well, it does a good job (mine is mainly used to make 4S2P replacement battery packs for cordless drills) , however, 2 years on I am on my 2nd set of batteries. I have 2, 3S LiPo packs in parallel, a 5200mAh 100C and a 5000mAh 60C but the 2nd set have degraded to such an extent that one is puffed up significantly and their combined capacity even fully charged will only give 350amps. I am considering a super capacitor version which would be about the same price as 2 new Lipos. So I wondered what you use to power your system?

[@Outside-In.]

Thank you Michael for the comment. I am using a Zeee 11.1V 3S Lipo Battery 100C 9000mAh A puffed battery sounds kinda scary. This is a link to the one I found on Amazon: www.amazon.com/Zeee-9000mAh-Battery-Connector-Infraction/dp/B07YP7DW2Z/ref=sr_1_6?sr=8-6 You can search Amazon for: zeee 3s lipo battery 9000mah There are a few, but oddly not many of that size. Hope this helps.

[@michaellinahan7740]

@@Outside-In. Yes that is the reason I have discharged the puffed one and dropped into Aldi's battery recycle bin. I think it is the high current that has degraded them as I would get almost 600A when it was working properly. That is why I wondered about the supercap version I had even gone as far as thinking about one of the deep cycle lead acid batteries (aldi sometimes have them on special) that are used for solar panels. I only use it on my electronics station so a semi permanent setup would work.

[@Outside-In.]

​ @michaellinahan7740 Thanks for the info. Do you have a link to the super capacitor version, I would like to take a look at that?. It is great to hear that you were able to get rid of the polymer that was puffed. I keep mine in a fire proof safe, but still it makes me nervous having them around, and maybe a super capacitor would be a much safer way to go.

[@michaellinahan7740]

@@Outside-In. KZbin has been deleting my replies so I sent an email to the one listed on the contacts page

[@Outside-In.]

​@@michaellinahan7740 Unfortunately KZbin does that from time to time, it also happens to me sometimes... I haven't received an email yet, but will keep a lookout for it.

[@JoseluisMayta]

Como

[@archietheproto7706]

The nickel heats up enough to melt both itself and the copper under it. The copper does not heat up enough by itself

[@Outside-In.]

Yes, I am sure we would need a much much more powerful welder to spot weld copper by itself.

[@jobmariano348]

​@@Outside-In. So it means if its hard to spot weld it the more capable it is to stand a current. I just bought a 0.15mm nickel plated copper i cant weld it but a 0.3mm pure nickel is no problem.

[@Outside-In.]

@@jobmariano348 It mostly has to do with the type of battery you are using and the leads length. I am using a 3s 9AH 100c battery, and it does weld 0.1mm copper and 0.1mm pure nickel, so it depends on the total thickness, but a thinner copper is better as copper is the hardest to weld. Thanks for your experience - much appreciated and good to know. 👍

[@jobmariano348]

​@@Outside-In. Is it ok to put a nickel before copper then nickel again. Because base on my experience on this the copper stick to the bottom and upper nickel and its tight. But is that setup safe. Please help

[@Outside-In.]

​@@jobmariano348 Job - Thanks for the question. Wow - That would be quit the sandwich 🤔 - That is quit the interesting thought, but I would say only if you had a much more powerful spot welder, because not only do you have to have enough heat to go through the copper to the battery (which the nickel is the reason for that to work), but you now have to go through yet another layer of nickel to complete the weld. Would it be safe - that would depend on the thickness of the strips, and the extra power you would need because of that thickness, you would just have to give it a go with your welder and see if it would actually work, but I would recommend to use a scrap piece of metal instead of a battery - you know, just in case you needed too much power - causing a catastrophic failure of your battery... If you have a .2mm nickel, a .2mm copper and a .2mm nickel - that is allot to get through, so like I say - you can only try - don't know why anyone would want or need to do a weld like that, but we wouldn't know until we tried. There are many others that have much more experience than I, so hopefully someone in the comments will feel free to chime in with their experience - I am using mostly common sense with my answer to make up for my lack of experience LOL. "Every new idea - comes with unknowns, but until the unknowns are tried and tested - it will forever remain - an unknown..." outside in Hope this helps, and thanks for your question. 👍

[@paulbeddows6014]

Copper won't stick to ferrus metal

[@Outside-In.]

Thanks for the info - good to know. 👍👍

[@sothatgames1577]

What about nickel plated copper, i don't know if its a thing but would that not work?

[@Outside-In.]

Yes there is a nickel plated copper, and it would be yellowish in color. It is more than likely in sheets and not strips however, as it is used in industrial applications.