Can The UAFX Lion '68 Hold Up To A Marshall Through A Cabinet?

In my first review I used the Universal Audio Lion '68 with its own onboard cabinet simulation and through the Two Notes CAB-M+, comparing it with an actual Marshall plexi-style amp through the latter. Now I'm using the Lion through an actual guitar cabinet with the aid of a power amp, and I'll once again compare it to the Marshall 1987X. Will it still hold up? Let's find out!
To hear my original music, check out the links below:
My band 'Nighthawker'
open.spotify.c...
My side project 'Steven Anthony Band'
open.spotify.c...

[@alanst.4417]

Thanks o lot for another Lion Video, Steve! You and a couple of great fellow youtubers made me buy one for myself, even though I'm very reserved towards modellers and prefer real tube amps exactly as you said. Now I'm putting it through its paces and testing in different scenarios... Quite happy with it I must say. The final mix comparison without different power amps sounded the most relevant to me (and a joy to listen, too) and showed only minor differences as you said. I like the real amp more, but not by a mile and the Lion is more practical in many situations. Cheers!

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@alanst.4417 glad I could help and that you're enjoying yours too! Thanks for commenting 🙂

[@alanst.4417]

@@StevenAnthonyGuitar thanks for the effort you put into this 👍

[@lilSchmoob]

Damn dude there are some real fuckin' music snobs criticizing this guy in the comments here. I thought this was a great video and showcased the power of the Lion '68 really well. Helps me justify my purchase 😉

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@lilSchmoob thanks! It's difficult these days to do it right for everybody watching, but I'm glad there are still plenty of people who find this stuff useful 🙂👍 Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@InnerDaze]

@@StevenAnthonyGuitar It is and thank you!

[@alanst.4417]

​@@StevenAnthonyGuitar well I doubt you could make everybody happy anyway... What I believe matters in the end is if you made it honestly and if there is an audience to appreciate or learn from your effort... Which I think here's plenty 😉 Rock on!

[@paullaughton6016]

Wonderful video! Very useful. Keep the passion.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Thanks! Happy to hear you liked it and it was useful to you. And don't worry, passion is what drives these videos 🫡

[@virgaumber6275]

Thank you for the video, I am in the same situation so this is the exact video I was looking for!

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Happy to hear that, that's why I make this stuff, so I'm always glad if it also answers someoje else's questions 🙂

[@boddumblues]

I use an NU-X amp academy to run a pedalbord into the return of my 1987X, it works really well. I have a small volume box on the board so I can adjust the general output easy with my foot. I believe in running modelers through tube power amps, you get more life to the tones, yet have much more control over the overall tone.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

For my needs, that would defeat the purpose. I get the tone I want from my 1987x by itself, so if I'm bringing that, I'm using it. And I don't miss anything in the feel of the Lion with the Loudster, which is a surprise to me. But let me be clear: that's no comment on your workflow. What works for you is what you should do, and what I do might not work for you 🙂

[@steveliberty]

Nicely done demo. With your power amp, the Lion had significantly more bottom end, and in isolation, sounded better to me. In the mix, there was no noticeable difference. When you eliminated the power amp, you also changed the settings of the Lion, so that comparison is really Apples to Oranges. More over, if you aren't planning on using the Lion as your primary solution, but rather a backup, none of this matters. It was WAY good sounding enough to use as a backup, even with hte preset/power amp/cab. Comparing to a real tube amp really only matters if you plan to eliminate the tube amp. But even then, the real measure should be "Does it sound and feel good?", not "Does it sound exactly the same?". Even 2 of the same exact model tube amp will sound a little different from each other. We need to be less critical, and more pragmatic when talking about modeling gear. For most people, there are only 2 reasons to use modeling gear - convenience and flexibility (OK, sometimes price is a third reason compared to a fancy tube amp). So, compare the level of convenience and flexibility to the level of satisfaction you get playing through the modeler, and choose based on the best balance of the trade-offs.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

I think the mix showed the biggest difference, but in isolation I prefered the Lion as well. When I eliminated the power amp, the settings on the Lion were exactly the same, I don't know where you got the idea that they changed. Of course I compared them to make a video for people wondering how the Lion would sound in this scenario, and if it would hold up to the real thing. But I was curious myself to. And because I did this, I eventually did consider this as a possible primary solution and gigged with this setup yesterday and it was great! I never thought I would own a modeler, let alone gig with it, and there are many people like me. I'm hoping to convince some of those to try this as well because you're right: in the end all that matters is that it sounds and feels good. Though I have to admit, playing in a seventies inspired rock band, the look of real amps is also part of the stage decor.

[@Chris-hq7nl]

One thing to note is that the Lion is modeled after a 1968 100 watt. The 1987x is, IIRC, based on an early metal panel circuit and is also a 50 watt. 100’s have a more apparently robust low end when compared to 50’s most of the time, and the metal panel based circuit is voiced a bit brighter and more aggressively than the earlier design.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@Chris-hq7nl entirely true! But the basic character should be similar, and you can definately hear that's the case in my opinion 🙂

[@johnpierson8398]

Really cool video. I have to start by mentioning that, for me, in the first two minutes or so of clean comparisons - both had a crackling distortion in each configuration. I did not hear this in any of the laler comparisons. All of the later comparisons showed me that if you set each setup for it's best sound, there are strengths and weaknesses in each configuration. For me, the strong highs and characteristic Marshall 'Kerang' of the 1987X sounded the best. But, there is no denying that the Lion is the best Marshall amp modeler I have heard. And it definitely can simplify recording. Thanks!

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Thanks! I have the feeling that crackling in the cleans is in the guitars' pots, but I rather like how it gives a grittyness to the clean sound. And I agree that both have their strengths and weaknesses: the Lion has a better range from clean to mean and might be better with pedals because of it, plus it's easy to work with and more pleasant at low volumes. But in a band with two guitarists, I think the 1987x will not just sound a bit better, it also looks a bit better on stage 😉 But really happy I got the Lion, I didn't think a modeler could do this, nor that it would work this well through guitar cabinets with a affordable power amp.

[@JoshBattershell]

I’m pretty sold on getting one of theses. I have a ruby and dream from UA and love both of them.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Then I'm sure you'll love the Lion too!

[@lordgraga]

5:30 and onwards with the tele really showcases the low end differences. The UA doesn’t do low end like the Marshall does. The UA is more congested in that regards, whereas the Marshall has a well defined lowend with authority. There is just more bandwidth in the Marshall.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

That's also the only part of the video where I'm using a boost with some EQ to make the tele less strident with the bridge pickup through both setups, because without this it can get rather strident. Might be because of the bigger bandwith of the real tube amp, might be because the Lion and/or the Loudster process this effect differently. I look both for different reasons, though I can imagine some would still prefer the Lion in this comparison.

[@flamingmanure]

nothing a simple EQ change cant fix though

[@badarmenia]

Great job! I really dig my Lion too! It compares incredibly well to my EVH spec modified Voodoo V-Plex. I plan on installing an effects loop in the Plexi and see how it sounds thru a real Marshall power amp section.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Well, if it's anything like a plexi, it doesn't have an effects loop because it breaks up at the power section after the loop. My Marshall 1987x has an effects loop but it's mostly useless.

[@badarmenia]

@@StevenAnthonyGuitar I have a Metro Zero Loss effects loop. I had it in the amp before, it works great, but I took it out. The amp is a clone of a ‘68 12000 series plexi.

[@michielroom]

Fijne verjaardag Papa ;-). We zijn blijkbaar allebei Dad-rockers. Leuke video. Ik heb geen echte Marshall, want dat is veel te luid thuis. Ik ben wel erg te spreken over het geluid van de Lion 68. Ik speel hem door een FR versterker van Harley Benton. Klinkt voor mij geweldig thuis en ik heb dus geen echte versterker om te vergelijken.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Sinds een halfjaar officieel dad-rocker, terwijl ik al langer de muzieksmaak had om onder die noemer te vallen. En het gebrek aan een buizenversterker is toch geen probleem, zolang jij uit je huidige rig maar het geluid en gevoel krijgt dat je wil hebben!

[@liuhu77]

Really well done comparison! I guess it's not possible to run the other output with the cab sim on in the Lion? Thinking about using one output with cab sim on to front of house and the other output to power amp -> cab with the cab sim off.

[@matsandersson8857]

I think it’s the no bright cap or the 100p bright cap that makes the UA Lion sound less bright and crunchy. A 68 Plexi has a 4,7n bright cap stock and i think it was a mistake not having that.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

They might add more values in an update, which wouldn't be a bad thing.

[@scottrrand37]

Nice Firebird!

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Thanks! It has proven to be a gateway Firebird for me 😜

[@gibs8412]

I would like to hear them both through tube power for a real comparison. Both running through the Marshall head's power amp and cab.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Wouldn't really work with a Marshall like this, because most of the drive comes from the power section, so that would be pretty redundant. But I'm sure someone has done or will do a comparison using something like a Freytte Powerstation as a power amp for the Lion. It wasn't something I was interested in trying, because at that point I'd just use the real thing instead of a modeler. The Lion with a Loudster cost less than a third of the 1987x and are way more portable and flexible, that's why I chose this comparison.

[@gibs8412]

@@StevenAnthonyGuitar I was curious because I have a mesa 2:90 to run it into, probably would feel alot more alive .

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@gibs8412 if you want to use it to get a different sound with your amp that for sure makes sense! To my it already works, feels and sounds really great through this small and affordable power amp by Hotone, so I have no doubt you could get great sounds through the power amp of your Mesa.

[@gibs8412]

@StevenAnthonyGuitar Mesa 2:90 is just that. An all tube rack mount power amp with 8 6L6 tubes, it screams.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@gibs8412 that it will be a great fit for sure. The Lion still manages to surprise me ever since I got it. I've been a Marshall plexi guy for the past six years and little else has come close for me to that. Never played a MIAB that I liked and I've always been very sceptic and negative about modeling. I won't ever get rid of my tube amps, but this Lion is really awesome.

[@musiccreation1198]

Thanks for making these great demos. For me, the Lion wins. I prefer it's less bright tone and the difference in convenience is night and day.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

I gigged with it and never felt like I was not just playing a normal amp. It's a great tool to have, even though I would still prefer to use the real thing. This is a nice alternative for some situations and an easy but great backup for me. But you can easily do it all with the Lion.

[@musiccreation1198]

Thanks for the reply. @@StevenAnthonyGuitar

[@Raj-b2q1x]

does this thing have a master volume? or does it have to go loud (like most plexis) in order to distort? is it bedroom volume friendly ?

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

The Loudster has an output volume, that is basically a master. It has two volume controls like a real Marshall, so normal and treble, in order to shape your sound and get the level of drive you want. I run the output of the Lion wide open into the power amp. The Loudster power amp just has one knob, which is the volume you send to your cabinet. And yes, you can easily get great sounds at bedroom levels like this. I'm using this setup to work when the baby sleeps, instead of running the real Marshall through an attenuator.

[@PainterDans]

Try it through the fax loop return, sounds great

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

I still have to try that, but my only amps with an effects loop are Marshall plexis, which seems a bit redundant 😜

[@hoosierdaddy2308]

The Lion sounds great to me. Both sounded good but the Lion has great advantages. ❤

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@hoosierdaddy2308 is sounds great and is more practical, but doesn't sit in a mix as good as the real thing. Adding more bright cap values could be the solution if UAFX were to do that.

[@asafeyal]

Hi, question, at this rig of power amp + Lion 68, where will you connect your modulation down the chain? Are you going to connect it (let's say you want to) to the power amp and then to the Lion?

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@asafeyal I always have all my effects in front of the amp, I never use an effects loop. So I do the same with the Lion: effects --> Lion --> power amp + cab or internal cabsim to interface. Works great for me!

[@KevinSilva-wv3yf]

I wonder what other power amps you’d recommend! I have a Lion arriving at my house soon and want to pair it with my Orange 2x12, but am worried about: 1) which power amp (would prefer pedal form, small format) And 2) overall volume. I want to be able to push the cab and keep up with my band. I use pedals so this would just be a strictly clean platform, but I wonder about other power all options that aren’t so huge. How loud does the hotone get? Thank you!

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Well, if you want to keep up with a band (so enough wattage) and have a more than decent sound, I don't think a small one is going to cut it. Solid state output transformers need some space, and the Hotone is like a dual pedal in terms of size. Something like the Harley Benton GPA100 isn't as wide, but is higher and taller, plus I think it doesn't sound or feel as good. The smaller ones I can think of (Mooer Baby Bomb and EHX makes a few) weren't all that great in mu opinion.

[@dsteele5530]

I run mine into a Blackstar Ampd1in the flat position and KT 88 tubes and it darkens it up when live. In headphones I put it on the 6v6 settings and it’s glorious

[@GC-cx6ew]

Are you turning the cab sims off on the lion? Thank you

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@GC-cx6ew when it's going through the power amp and an actual cabinet, of course I'm turning it off. Would sound terrible, unless you're using an FRFR cabinet.

[@GC-cx6ew]

Ok thanks…I’m new to this kind of setup.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@GC-cx6ew this was new for me too. Through a regular guitar cabinet the cabsim will add nothing to make it sound better, your actual cabinet needs to do the work. FRFR cabinet are specifically for modelers and have very neutral speakers, so you can leave your cabsim on.

[@NERDOFUNK]

The lion into frayette or so tube poweramp is even better, played it at a friends house, i love the lion into my jtm and hdrx

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

I'm sure it is, but it's also 10 times as expensive as the Loudster and won't fit on a mini-board, so as a grab and go/backup solution it's less suitable, at least for me.

[@NERDOFUNK]

@@StevenAnthonyGuitar Oh yeah for sure

[@milsiknuff]

I think the Two Notes thing is too static. All other demos sound way better...even so yours does sound good. The Lion has the OX cabs...they are not IRs. For me personally IRs suck...a good solution is this borgen plug in...makes those IRs shine a bit more. But thank you for the microphone/cab comparison! Now I really would like to hear the Lion as a pedal in front of the amp...could that work (no cab sim of course)?

[@varanzmaj]

I can't find this poweramp anywhere for sale, is there another poweramp (it doesn't have to be a stomp based) that you would recommend?

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

I also tried the Harley Benton GPA-100 which was decent enough, although I prefered the Hotone Loudster. In Europe the latter is available, but of course I don't know where you're located.

[@varanzmaj]

@@StevenAnthonyGuitarthanks for the reply. I am in Europe, but I've not been able to find the Hotone anywhere online for sale. I did order the GPA-100 though, it's got rave reviews everywhere so I figure it should do the trick. I don't need the pedal to sound "exactly" like the plexi, it just needs to sound good. I've got a Celestion Gold 1x12 exuipped CAB that sounds awesome with pretty much any tube amp I've paired it with, so I'm curious how it will sound with the Lion. The pedal itself is extremely impressive to say the least.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@varanzmaj the Hotone is for sale at Music Store in Germany, amongst a few other stores. But you'll do fine with the GPA!

[@Raj-b2q1x]

Does the lion take pedals well?

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

I think so! Just gigged it like this a few hours ago for the first time and I used a compressor, pitch shifter, phaser, overdrive, boost and fuzz all at the same time for the ending of the last song and it worked and sounded great! My Marshall 1987x for sure can't do that this well.

[@Raj-b2q1x]

@@StevenAnthonyGuitar DANNG, id love to get one when it goes down in price!

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@Raj-b2q1x I can really recommend it! I honestly never thought a modeler could get me on board, let alone gig with it, but the Lion easily won me over.

[@stevemessineo4209]

Steven: thanks for all of the great videos. Have you ever tried playing thru a Fractal set up with a plexi? I’m a plexi guy who plays circa 1970 blues based rock, and I’ve been trying to decide whether to buy a Lion or a Fractal FM9 as something different for home, backup rig, etcetera. I’d much prefer the Fractal as far as features, diversity and programmability go, but if it winds up not having the real deal bark, bite and speaker push, I know I will just sell it. By the way, the tube amp in a Fryette power station (bypassing the attenuator using the effects return or Line In) makes a great power amp for these types of things.

[@D.A.T.GRINGO]

​@@stevemessineo42090:00 I have a fractal fm3...use it live, it's ok, but not as alive as a real amp.

[@Rummy73]

You could have EQ'd the Lion better. Maybe your IR is not a fit.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Better is obviously relative. Seems fine to me 🙂

[@Rummy73]

@@StevenAnthonyGuitar admitting the les paul solo sound in the mix was inferior because of poor EQ should not chaff your buns. You could do much better. I have made my share of tone duds.

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@Rummy73 I can only EQ it as close to the real amp as the pedal allows me. It's all the same settings throughout, whether you hear it in the mix or not. Of course I've might have gotten it closer with EQ in post, but that wouldn't be a fair comparison, would it? And you know the bright cap values are different on the real amp as opposed to the Lion? That's a limitation I can't fix with EQ in the pedal.

[@TheFilleneuve]

UA Lion 68 klinkt beter 😉

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

Op zichzelf wel, maar in de mix klinkt de echte Marshall toch nog altijd beter 😉

[@TheFilleneuve]

@@StevenAnthonyGuitar: klopt, maar ik gebruik de lion 68 echt vaak en klinkt live top

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

@@TheFilleneuve ik heb hem gisteren ook voor het eerst live gebruikt zoals in de video en heb daarover ook niks te klagen! 🙂

[@harriheinsoo]

lion wins

[@Guilhermefreitas5]

Uad sounds better

[@MrBarefoot09]

the first section is a terrible recording , constant fuzzy sound of overloading the recording input

[@StevenAnthonyGuitar]

The recording is not overloading, the levels are set to the overdriven sounds. The clean-up is done with the guitars' volume, which still leaves some dirt in your clean tone, which some prefer.