Can the WEAKEST Spearow beat Pokemon Crystal?

[@laki7480]

Your score metric is the best metric out there, perhaps even better than RBY pkmn challenges

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Nailed it! 😂 I want to score the very best, like no one ever has...

[@MetalSandshrew]

43:10 - seems the effective power calculator is missing an interaction. Ground is super effective on Steel and on Electric. With a standard base power of 20 Mud Slap should be base power 80 on a Magnemite. Also it shouldn't be too big of a deal in small bursts but without increasing happiness by leveling up 5 levels or walking 5120 steps per KO blackout training will constantly reduce Return's power.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah noticed that in the overlay while grinding against Jasmine. I will work on a fix.

[@jackruby6696]

You have a great voice btw. Definitely could host a radio channel

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Wow, thank you!

[@MetalSandshrew]

Alright, got to mention it. That bird isn't a Hoothoot.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Hoot hoot is coming next time 😂

[@belodie]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges I don't give a hoot about how farfetch'd it is, I'm hoping for some Hypnosis strats!

[@bitterzombie]

Then you gotta do Natu, johto's other round bird unit

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

@@bitterzombie All coming. It will be birds for a hot minute

[@TheLeviathan1293]

About gen 2 broken TMs I'd say Curse, Return, Rest and Protect/Sleep Talk. Almost every pokemon can learn those moves and it's kind of the shortcut when you can't get past Red's Snorlax. Also Red is so high level compared to anything found in gen 1 so I bet every weak pokemon able to get to him will have to use that broken combo to get past him. Even maybe some special/mixed attackers, that's how strong that combo is.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I plan to keep Rest in the broken TM set.. I'm debatable on Return, since even at beats a 102 power move isn't THAT strong. Curse, Sleep Talk, and Protect, plus Toxic and Double Team are definitely good candidates for the list

[@TheLeviathan1293]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges It's also fully accurate and has 20pp base. But yeah, on its own it's not that broken. It's the whole combo that is. Maybe penalize not the use of TMs themselves but of broken TM combos?

[@Cream147player]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges I haven't watched your more recent videos so don't know if this is still your view. Obviously the killer thing about Return is that it's a 102 power (max I know) move that pretty much any Pokémon can get from quite early on and has neutral coverage against the vast majority of opponents. Many Pokémon won't have another move of this power they can learn. And against the weak trainer Pokémon in this game, that 102 power is going to pack more of a punch than it would have in RBY too. I guess it's far from as broken as moves like Curse or Double Team, but at the same time feels like it will be quite centralising across a lot of physical attackers and even some special attackers looking to round off their coverage - I think it will be especially useful for the E4 (one of the bigger walls in the midgame after you get Return is Jasmine and I must accept it will be pretty useless there!)

[@Canaris4]

There;s probably lots of opportunities to say this now, but I used to think the beam in Sprout Tower was a giant Gameboy

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Oh god, I just had the worst possible imagination of what you might be implying there....

[@ericwolf9664]

I think it's perfectly fine to already start solo runs for the mons that have already been eliminated, those min battle vids probably take a ton of time to make as it is anyways.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I'm going to just mix them in here and there. I won't be stopping the minimum battles series by any means

[@brolsroyceyt2362]

Just what I needed to end my night on appreciate you GSCPC 🙏🏾🙏🏾

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Heck yeah! Glad you're enjoying!

[@alexisdipoalo9443]

I do wanna correct one thing, just because the best possible version of a pokemon cannot defeat a trainer. Doesn't actually mean a random version can't win. The reason for this is because of how the AI works for certain trainers or in certain situations making them act differently. For example, one I do is purposely getting a lower defense IV so I can defeat flanker more consistently as they'll use quick attack over u-turn in gen 4.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

In Crystal the AI seems to generally alter decisions based on trainer class, expected damage, and whether or not the next attack will KO the player, so I don't think there is a case where a Max DVs Pokemon fails but a lower DVs Pokemon succeeds based on opponent actions. I do think that the effect of DVs on certain moves is an important factor though, since a lower DV in Defense could lead to better ranges for Flail or a different DV spread could get a better Hidden Power type

[@alexisdipoalo9443]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges assuming it works as you just said, it could still happen but it be much harder to see. still intresting, kinda curious if any pokemon in your series with max DVs could of gotten further with lowers when its all over with, though off memory i can only think of 4 battles in the whol game where that could happen and all are very niche ( with ironicqlly buggys like i said above still being one as i think his scyther still has quick attack in gen 2 ). Maybe 5 if it can be rigged to stop karen's status moves, but admitly i am more aware of gens 4 onward's AI than gen 3 and eariler.

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

29:32 very true 😂😂😂

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I only speak facts

[@AbsoluteSkycaptain]

I'm twelve beers deep and trying to level myself out to go to bed. This vid is exactly what I needed.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Glad to help!

[@dragonslayerz2220]

Non-ghost Curse likely should be a broken TM.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I was holding off on curse u less it seemed truly impossible otherwise. That Body Slam from Snorlax had me thinking I might need it, but fortunately Rare Candies were enough

[@RedeemedSteve]

Given the TM list in Gen 2 is really different, when I was looking at the "broken" TMs I personally liked giving that point category to "universal" TMs. Like you said it removes the flavor and individuality of certain movesets, and when I went through the list I think it covers all the moves that are abusable and broken as well. Here is the list: Attract Curse Double Team Endure Frustration Hidden Power Protect Rest Return Sleep Talk Swagger Snore Toxic I hope this was helpful, and you may want to double check if I missed anything.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

I think you're fairly on point. Basically I plan to avoid most of these unless absolutely necessary. In the case of Spearow, I think we could argue that Return was really necessary since it has little in the way of Normal STAB moves otherwise. I was saving Curse for the case that I completely failed at level 100, and I think that will basically be the case when it isn't a level up move.

[@135forte]

Fun fact about the 'Mystic Man'. Apparently Eugene is the only trainer in the game not assigned a gender/sex

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Except in his trainer class name 😂

[@135forte]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges I can only assume they were too lazy to add it to the files for male trainer classes.

[@beltyro]

just something i noticed about the overlay is it seems that monotypes are counted strange for damage calcs your peck in bugsy's gym against mono bugs was at 140 and mudslap went to 80 for a vulpix if i had to assume its double counting types so vulpix is a fire/fire type and caterpie is a bug/bug type.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I noticed that too. * am working on a fix for the next episode.

[@belodie]

I think a word's missing in the title, it currently says "with beat Pokemon"

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Fixed!

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

Alright. You are NOT RBY Pokémon Challenges!!!

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Let's go!

[@jasperdeboer3257]

@@GSCPokemonChallengesis that Let’s Go Pikachu or Let’s Go Eevee?

[@andrewpalmer1873]

Are you sure 🤔

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

@@andrewpalmer1873 relax it's a joke 😂 Eevee live stream video, right around the time teo leaves Mt moon and up till the time he faces misty Edit: it's in rby pokemon challenges

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

@@andrewpalmer1873 It's a very tough thing to work out...

[@DarKnightKilla13]

OMG @21:00 I NEVER thought of it that way, brother... I've been recently rewatching the whole series on the Pokémon TV App (before it shut down just like a week ago 😔) and now I guarantee I'll only ever think of Togepi saying "pee-pee" instead 😅🤣😂😆... we're talking I've been watching the show since the beginning my whole life and never considered that... until now, hahaha. Anyway, hope all is well, and now back to my regularly scheduled rest of the video.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, it's kind of funny how not all of the Pokemon say their names properly, but in some cases it makes sense

[@DoctorNovakaine]

So, who's going to struggle more, Spearow or Hoothoot? (OwlBeBack, BTW) This is a tricky one. Spearow struggled HARD, but it had three things going for it: 70 base Speed, 60 base Attack, and Drill Peck. A more powerful move than Return when it was Super Effective, and the stats to take advantage. Hoothoot just isn't going to be able to rely on Return like Spearow and won't get Drill Peck. Even if it did, that 30 base Attack just isn't going to make it work. On top of that, its 50 base Speed is going to leave it a lot more outpaced. What Hoothoot DOES get is Hypnosis and Dream Eater. But, 36 base Special Attack isn't really going to make Dream Eater a powerhouse move. Sleep is OP, so many Pokémon have made a lot of noise with sleep, but you have to be able to get it off, and Hoothoot's 30 base defense leaves a lot of openings. And it's not going to be able to use Dream Eater on Dark-types...it doesn't really have a good answer for them. I think Sleep being OP will be enough in the end, but I think Hoothoot might need to max out on levels to outspeed enough against Red's team.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

This is going to be a great chance to see just how good Sleep is on a really weak Pokemon.

[@bitterzombie]

TMs in GSC are weird. Rollout & mudslap are good examples, because they are right on the cusp of what I would call "broken", while still being sort of essential options for pokemon with shallow movepools, especially early in the game. Then by the last few gyms you get TMs like... dynamicpunch. Iron tail. Icy wind. Dragonbreath. Incredibly mid & underwhelming options for that point in the game.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I think the biggest things are 1) I won't allow manipulating DVs for Hidden Power, I am going to avoid Curse as much as possible. I also plan to avoid Return unless it is entirely necessary. Double Team is obvious a last ditch effort, the last thing I'll consider

[@K-H-28]

I'd be interested in seeing how much stat XP you gained throughout the run and how that compares against a minimum battles route. Level 76 entering Kanto is a lot of grinding.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

It was massive. I'm sure I can check it by just reloading the save.

[@17Master]

Hoothoot is going to have a rough time. It does get Hypnosis and Sleep is still OP. But it loses out on good Flying STAB compared to Spearow along with less Attack and Speed. The mon I'm really interested to see is Sentret. I tried my own solo run late last year and it got walled so hard at Bruno, it was terrible. Curious to see how it fares under your ruleset and scoring.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I am interested to see how the Sleep affects things. Sentret sounds like it could be rough...

[@Taerdan]

Against Morty, using Pursuit would've been better than trying to Peck for damage. Dark is Super Effective against Ghost, and it has a higher Base Power than Peck (40 BP vs 35 BP) and the Super Effective more than makes up for it not being STAB. Not sure on Spearow's Attack vs Special Attack though, since Dark is a Special type. It would help to reduce luck needed to avoid Curse, but if the range on the Haunters isn't favorable then I don't know how much it'd help beyond the first Gastly. You'd still get walled by the Steel Gym as well, but maybe it's helpful in an optimized run to increase the final score.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

The issue is that Morty also has higher Special Defense, so Pursuit seems not to be as useful there. Still, I think we can try to improve the score in a future optimized run

[@thekakeking9400]

For Hoothoot try Eda, the owl lady.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

😂

[@PhilipMurphy8Extra]

It's time now to root for the underdog of birds that isn't even allowed to evolve in this challenge

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, Squidgy does evolutions as he plays, so I wanted to take a different approach

[@fionordequester6748]

Wouldn't Pursuit have done more damage to Rhydon than Return? Since Return is Special?

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Return is physical.... Pursuit is Special though, it just also has less power and no STAB, so a strong Return even after resistance does more damage

[@ShadyScienceFeline]

Hey, if the spearow is allowed to be Pecker, you can probably let its “rival” hoothoot be Hooter(s) …

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Nailed it!

[@jackruby6696]

So hidden power is basically trash when you play with the worst dv Pokémon rifht? It’s hidden power fighting with 20 power?

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, it becomes 31 power, but it will be consistent in every run, so we won't ever get any great advantage from it.

[@mackowens7234]

No bugsy minimum battles this week? :/

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Hold tight, it's coming! I won't be doing these solo challenges every week, just scattering here and there

[@jawonjones1877]

You gotta send me some Japan drip.

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

For sure, any idea what kinds of things people would want from Japan?

[@jawonjones1877]

@@GSCPokemonChallenges raw denim for sure!

[@jackruby6696]

Hell yes

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Let's go!

[@mike18911222]

RBYPC is the worst channel EVER!!!! XD much love :3

[@GSCPokemonChallenges]

Mike the Potato, you are the realest dude! Thank you for your support!