Can too much Threshold running make you slower?

[@jason5523-r5m]

I didn't realize what made me pretty quick in high school cross country was this very very steep hill we had on our course. It was so steep front wheel drive cars had problems going up it if it were just damp. It was about 300 yards long. When other teams came to run against us, they would ALWAYS be in shock about how steep that hill was. No escaping Vo2 sessions lol

[@hiimgiovi]

I started running on december 2023. I just completed my second 10k in 43:10 following your advices. As soon as I saw this video I went out practicing that sub 40min 10k pace that feels so uncomrfotable doing a 6x1km at 3:50/km session. Thanks Scully for everything! I’ll get that sub 40!

[@nicolasd8211]

That is still Threshold. VMA is less then 600m. So 2 minutes effort like 600, 500, 400, 300 and 200. !00 and less is pure speed work which doesn't involve aerobe.

[@edwinpepito1498]

Is it okay to run at threshold always ?

[@sweatelite]

This video is unbelievably good.

[@50Something]

You're right about running being brutal 😂. Nobody says this stuff like you do, much appreciated!

[@terciosantana4697]

I agree. Also, it is difficult to find a channel here on KZbin where we get this level of information about running, training and mindset. Stephen is different and the only one who really says things as they really are. That's why his is one of, if not, the best channel about running today.

[@Ray-hr9tb]

You're not 25 anymore, brother. I realize you're a professional runner, but you guys are also just human as the rest of us are and time will eventually slow your times down as it did/does for the rest of us. Today I'm 56, but my mind still thinks I'm 18. Although I can still turn 75 second quarters, putting more than two together at a time is just...well...hard. Aging is interesting, tough, and very humbling. The only thing we can do is accept it with grace.

[@stephenscullion262]

I feel that

[@banksj54]

Sounds like you're giving up tbh

[@Ray-hr9tb]

I don't think the guy is giving up. I do think he is gaining a wisdom that only comes to us as we "grow" older. There's an ugly truth that all competitive runners will face : we can't "BE" 23 to 31 forever. What he will likely do with his competitive nature is go on to be the best of the best as he ages into the older running classes. I for one will be watching, not his decline, but instead, I'll be watching his progress!

[@stephenscullion262]

@@banksj54 don’t think anybody who ran their second best marathon of their career less than 6 months ago would give up..

[@SpiKrishPri]

Interesting the age you think you are. I am 64 and I think I am 17.

[@Elstuderino]

The benefits of sticking to a training plan that works all intensities can't be over sold. Great video Stephen

[@karlmunov4305]

Your humanity and humility is inspiring and contagious. Thank you for sharing your skills, experience, love for running and all of your detailed recommendations. Never forget what you means to all of those silent listeners who haven’t subscribed. Happy Sunday long runs.

[@adamfergie87]

Nothing has worked better for me than a weekly vo2 session, a weekly threshold and the rest zone 2. I do a mix of hill repeats or 400,800,1200,1600m repeats, each week is a different vo2 max session in a 6 week block. It hurts but for me it's been far more beneficial than just threshold training. I've also been uninjured for 2 years now which is the longest period in my running.

[@WilliamHickman-i4z]

Snap, apart from my VO2max sessions are just 1km flat and 400m hills, times 4. I was doing two threshold sessions a week but was perpetually on the verge of exhaustion

[@jenHry-ng3pw]

Basically a pyramid training.

[@lupsik1]

Yeah, cycle that with Base Training phase and a short speed work phase and youve got a very common macrocycle going

[@vondutchman]

I think if carried out correctly then it has massive benefits. One problem UK runners have is the understanding of the concept and it is training by lactate and 100% not by LT2 or max steady state, this often leads to burnout or injury after a few months. The double threshold system is generally carrying out the longer reps such as 2k at around HM pace or easier so this would be mid threshold curve or between LT1 and LT2, whereas the 400s are generally around that LT2 point and can be close to 5k pace given the duration of these and time for lactate to accumulate. In short my advice would be DO NOT train under this system at LT2 for both sessions unless you are intent on injury or burnout/overtraining.

[@johnnelson5929]

Thank you for this! This is a good reminder of balancing long, endurance runs with threshold runs, and NOT forgetting the real speed (VO2Max) work!

[@Noah-sm1ze]

Hey man, just wanted to say that your videos have been helping me to enjoy the highs and lows of running more and ultimately given me a more positive outlook on a rather sub-par track season this year. Keep it up! You’re making a big difference

[@markjohnson4237]

Yet again, your timing is impeccable for me, Stephen. I'm in the midst of a threshold improvement plan and I was 100% sure of what the VO2 sessions were all about. Now I understand those little extra pushes in to discomfort are the difference. Thanks.

[@DrewMartig]

Fantastic advice, thanks for sharing. I’ve noticed in the past couple years that I’ve gotten a lot more out of VO2 max to 10k pace work than out of just threshold. I’m glad others are validating that

[@Danny-pc4de]

When I go out to “just run” I end up in the threshold territory so most of my running is there and hearing all this makes me glad to think what I’m doing isn’t completely wrong or pointless, especially since I’ve found a lot of improvement running this way. Keep up the good content, Stephen

[@Tritiuminducedfusion]

Yes, I go out for easy runs and end up in threshold- VO2 max range. It just feels better.

[@jochippyy]

You risk injury though if u never run easy and you won't be able to do your hard sessions as hard as you could if you don't ever recover properly cos u never run easy

[@onion3974]

​@@jochippyywhen you have perfect mechanics and vaporflys, you just don't get injured

[@jochippyy]

@onion3974 that's not correct. Anyone can get injured if they stress their body too much and no-one has 'perfect' mechanics anyway

[@Danny-pc4de]

@@jochippyy I do my easy runs still!

[@dionblundell9733]

Thanks for the reminder about zone 2, threshold AND VO2max. We go through periods where we can make it work with 2 of the 3, but for consistency we need all 3

[@isaacjennings6986]

Love this video! I ran a 5k in March off of mostly threshold/strength work and no fast, hard stuff and felt AWFUL the entire race…I did PR but like you said, since I hadn’t done any 5k/V02 work my body felt almost in shock for almost the whole race haha. These are such great reminders and perspectives!

[@flolin8766]

After doing a lot of baseline work and some unregulated low volume intervals, I ended up in stagnation. Only when I added these hard workouts in a week, I see now some good improvements which also encourages me to even try harder. Thanks for these valuable insights.

[@winklertribe5268]

Thanks for this “tough love”! It is much needed for me!

[@glengordon4271]

Well laid out. I’m currently doing 4 sessions per week and finding good progress. 1 threshold workout 2 easy runs 1 shorter one long at weekend then 1 V02 workout mid week. Definitely had those thoughts of wanting to stop near the end of my hard workout I was on the limit

[@xamu6449]

This speech is a work of art

[@Cloppa2000]

As a 60yr old novice to having any idea of what I'm doing running-wise and starting out with a VO2 of just 20!! I started the Aerobic running program at the end of January. I started with just 15min runs at my LT2 HR for a few weeks, I then added LT2 threshold interval runs, Z5 interval runs, Z2 incline walks, a VO2 test and later a 5k MAF test each week, but sometimes have rest days if I need to. I have found after 4mths of this training and making pretty good progress with a VO2 now of 29 and climbing, that I get better at whatever pace I train. If I drop any of the LT2, Z5 or Z2 runs or walks, it is harder to stay at or below the target HR zone the next time I do it! Therefore I now strongly believe that we need to work on what we are specifically training for, and identify and work on any weak links in the different HR zones. The Z2 incline walks have brought down my resting HR and subsequently the harder workout HR. The LT2 runs are improving my LT2 pace and the Z5 runs are improving my top end HR and pace. I think intervals don't just have to be threshold runs but can be done at any pace and are a good way of doing a bit more distance at a slightly faster pace than a straight run. E.g. break any race distance up into 4 and do 4 - 6 intervals of this at slightly faster than you could do the full race, then on another day do the full distance or 2-3 longer intervals etc. I find the LT2 intervals and runs comfortably hard and the Z5 intervals and 12min VO2 test uncomfortably hard. The Z2 incline walks and 5k MAF test are ok cardio wise but tax my muscle endurance (which for me needs work). For context I'm just looking to improve my VO2max and one day do a 5k race in 30mins or less. Hope that makes sense.. and hopefully it will continue to work! 🙂

[@RunnersUniteCoaching]

Super inspiring to hear my elders taking up new things in life! U can tell you're going to live quit long!

[@Cloppa2000]

@@RunnersUniteCoaching I hope so! Cheers!

[@amblincork]

I am a 67 yr old with over 40 marathons done with over half on mountains and trails and I have no idea what you are talking about - after 4 months if non running due to injury I am currently doing 5 km in 22 minutes and want toi get back clise to my pb of 20.07. I know know what my heart rate is and dont want to know because that will not help me run faster. What works is consistent training with weekly spoeed sessions and regular hard races. Better still join a running club

[@Cloppa2000]

@@amblincork 🤣

[@justjustjoo]

Vo2max of 20ml/kg/min? Was this confirmed in the lab with spiroergometry, or where do these numbers come from?

[@Mr80Miles]

Always enjoy your videos. Real experience from a real elite athlete.

[@Billybobnob]

This advice I think is very specific to what you are doing. Most programmes say 1 VO2, 1 threshy and a long run.

[@javieriglesias6556]

Great video, Stephen! Lots of takeaways and learning for me in my upcoming training sessions and future races! Thank you!

[@JustJamsOnly]

Started incorporating sprint Intervals as my VO2 max training run once a week, really liking the results.

[@tyriksmith9053]

Thank you sooooooooo much for sharing your insight, time, energy, life experiences!!!!

[@iolairmuinnmalachybromham3103]

Thanks for this message Stephen! This resonates with me. Even the Norwegian middle distance runners who swear by the majorly threshold-focused training do harder efforts in the race buildups. Kelemen et al’s 2024 systematic review paper on double-threshold training found that the elites using this approach tend to use two double-threshold days in the base-building phase, but as they progress through their running plan will replace some of their threshold sessions with faster and more race-specific stuff to get that speed up.

[@MrEirik3000]

We only do double threshold and high milage from october to may/june then we lower our milage to 65% roughly and start to train harder. Some of us swap out the 2x10x200m hills in the winter for a normal track session if they have access to an indoor track (it snows so much here). The longer the distance of your race is, the more threshhold you will have to do (1500m -> 10km/half marathon). We dont have a solid system for the full marathon yet, but if you execute our 1500m -> 10km model with full control over your lactacte and make sure you dont run too hard especially in the morning sessions you are going to run very fast in races. What does 'full control over your lactate' mean in practice? run slower if you measure too high, and run faster if you measure too low. Play it safe and prioritize minimizing injury risk.

[@iolairmuinnmalachybromham3103]

@@MrEirik3000 Thank you! This and your other comment have been very informative☺️. Best of luck with everything

[@MrEirik3000]

@@iolairmuinnmalachybromham3103 Some of us keep the milage even higher during racing season and some even lower. This is where the athletes individualize more depending on what they think they need. Some think they need more endurance and others think they need more speed, depending on their main racing-distance.

[@SamiSand85]

Great video! Too many say stay in zone 2 or always run slow. I need the speed workouts, mentally I feel better after I put in a hard effort and I know I pushed myself.

[@martincampbell6017]

Appreciate all the advice 🙏 You say it how it is ..I feel like I've stagnated over the past few years.....not getting faster or improving....started to incorporate some fast track sessions,I'll have a look at your training plans ,some more structured training could help ....really enjoy your channel......tks 😊

[@crankgreenwatts]

Love this vlog Stephen 💯 Certainly hear about hitting a hard session once a week as it wakes up the body 🙌 A friend/coach told me endurance takes years and speed takes weeks .. hit those upper max sessions and feel the burn 🔥 That bit to push through I personally find so hard as end up blowing up and walking even on a Parkrun 😢 That Insta360 footage on running is awesome 😎 Your honesty brings so much value with your knowlege 🙏

[@HunzaTech]

One f came through lol I've always thought about running as being the great equalizer across levels because the push always brings the same pain. It's the psychology of accepting the pain that brings improvement. It always sucks!!! I've been neglecting VO2 max sessions so I'll start adding those in. Thank you 👊

[@nicholas5396]

“It never gets easier, you just go faster.” ~Greg Lemond

[@dancollins3467]

@@nicholas5396 - and the corollary: "You don't train so that your next race feels easier. You train so you can perform better. The race is always hard."

[@jochippyy]

I definitely find that when i do hard intervals it makes me faster. In fact it even makes my threshold pace faster

[@MrEirik3000]

This is true, BUT you need more time to recover and increase injury risk. Hard sessions creates 'spikes' in your fitness, which is not sustainable for long periods of time. If you only have a short amount of time to prepare for a race go hard. But lets say you have 2 years to prepare for a race, then prioritizing threshhold and minimizing injury risk will make you much faster as a consequence of beeing consistent over time.

[@johnhiggins674]

You’re describing my Tuesday intervals, so hard to keep putting it in week after week. Just started another 5k block with everyone’s start point …12 x 400m.. 🥵 Worth it all when it comes to the races though, gradual progress is still progress 👊💥

[@FarisSalman]

I like how these videos look like you're talking to yourself while at the same time resonates with other slower runners. Running is brutal, always. Some people are just faster, but the brutality is universal.

[@sunnilau999]

Thanks for this insightful advise. Makes a lot of sense

[@thecasualmuslim]

Hey Stephen, I was just in this same situation - had been putting a lot of training miles in for my last half-marathon and felt like the potential (as you mentioned in the video) was much higher, but I didn’t build up the race effort before and avoided the VO2 work. Still PB’d but fell short of what I expected of myself. Hope you all the best in training!

[@Thomas-dp8eb]

Apart from fast hard reps, Ive found that longer threshold reps can also build a lot of stamina, so like 1 x 30-40 min threshold with the last 1 or 2 k's preferebly being even faster, so kind of like training race but not quite all out all the way(cause thats gonna require a lot more recovery time)

[@vitormila3951]

Hello, Phil Maffettone is the best coach and person I know in sports. I would like to see an athlete like you talk to him and discuss health and competition. Phil got me into running barefoot and improving my metabolic health. He has a holistic vision and I fell in love with that.

[@bajaeamon]

Great video, thanks mate.

[@mattbaker5692]

Love your content. Your gonna smash one in due time. Your good as long as your in mid 30's get that 2:08 bud

[@lutanaspotswood2102]

I really needed to hear this today, even though I’m a peasant runner.

[@bollix2k]

What happens i think is the anaerobic enzymes become detrained from too much threshold. Some schools of thought would say that the anaerobic enzymes deteriorate after 72 hours without stimulus. The other contentious point is where lactate sits - is it 2.0 or by the Norwegian model at 3.5 particularly Marius Baackens research on this. I've had too many athletes come to me with high HR profiles who are getting nothing from 2.0 training ...the minute we retest and realign AT at LT2 at higher zones we get massive improvement. There is a great book by owen anderson called lactate lift -off which explains these principles particularly for marathon training. Read the chapter on MCT1 - I think thats what you are saying here.

[@Audifan8595]

I'm not down with the lingo you're using because I'm no expert sports scientist or anything but what I did understand made me curious if you can answer something for me. I started tracking my heart rate during my runs recently and noticed that a comfortable/easy pace (breathing evenly, could have a conversation if I shorten my sentences slightly) had my heart rate through the roof, like in the low 180s. I've had a sports watch for eight months but was mainly ignoring my HR because I didn't trust the wrist monitor, but finally got an arm monitor and the numbers didn't actually change too much... My 5k race pace is around 7:15min/mi but even running a 9min+ mile has my heart rate going crazy despite my breathing and the entire rest of my body feeling completely fine. I ran a half marathon in November at an 8:01 pace and I felt great the whole time, I was pushing but it wasn't agony..I wasn't tracking HR back then but it seems wild to me that I could possibly feel so good when my HR is that high? In order to get into zone 2 I have to slow down to around a 12:30min/mi pace. Does any of that sound normal to you? I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing for training. I've been trying to actually do zone 2 training now because previously I just went out the door and ran however I felt like, which was almost always in the range of low 8mins for harder days and around 10min/mi for easy days.. but 12:30min/mi is actually psychological torture for me. I have been trying so hard but running that slow feels miserable and I don't know what to do. My body just wants to run faster than that and I enjoy my runs way more when I do, but I also really want to make significant speed improvements. I'd like to run a sub-20 minute 5k, for example. Should I keep forcing the zone 2 runs and see what happens in the next couple weeks, or should I be doing something different?

[@EulerJr_]

@@Audifan8595 Have you found any clarity or answers? I’m i’m a similar situation, although i’ve been running for a while. I simply become super slow if i don’t do three sessions per week which is minimum at threshold level.

[@EulerJr_]

@bollix2k can i contact you in any way? I’m interested in learning more from you.

[@Audifan8595]

@@EulerJr_ I found from a different video about heart rates that up to 20% of the population has a naturally higher heart rate. Now, it doesn't make complete sense to me, because my avHR is around 60 and my RHR is typically in the low 50s, yet my HR when running is very high. I saw 203 during a 5k race in October, and that wasn't even the highest I've hit during non-maximum effort running. I did a 30 minute time trial that I found on a video about calculating one's own zones, and found that my zone 2 is 151-175, substantially higher than average. Based on how my pace feels in that HR range, I completely agree with it, so that's what I have been using for the last couple of months and it seems to be working out fine. I have no explanation for why my HR is so high to begin with unless it's normal for people with a naturally higher heart rate to still have a fairly average or low resting/daily HR. At the end of the day, while I do want to get faster, I'm not trying to minmax my training as it's ultimately just a hobby and a way of keeping my mood stable, so I'm okay with the answers I found, even though it's clearly incomplete information.

[@jjndz3782]

This channel is great. Thanks man, this content helps a lot.

[@nicholas5396]

Great channel and content as usual. Far be it from me to make a suggestion but here it goes. It's sounds like you could use a coach to keep your training plan honest and keep you from going to hard to often. Whereas most people need one to push them you may need one to reign you in on most days then let you loose on the days it's meant for. Make the coach not be a friemd either. Just an unsolicited thought. Good luck on your journey brother!

[@Johan10683]

Now you're talking! There's such a zone 2 movement at the moment and sure that's good for foundation building. Threshold training of course very important - as Jack Daniels says "comfortably hard". But V02 max training is hard, no shit, but that's what brings you to your racing edge.

[@seanoreilly1675]

Thanks for all this information bro these videos are so insightful 👊

[@MrHaggyy]

I have the opposite problem. My body has the urge to go quick so a lot of slower steady runs get way too fast. Good route to getting injured. The mix is important to get a solid foundation and a good peak as well.

[@NikoSaario]

The best running content in YT 💪

[@Burps___]

I have so many friends that adore "run easy to run fast", but I have no friends that adore "run fast to run fast". I need new friends. 🏃🏻‍♂🏃‍♀👟

[@timsimon8995]

I feel ya. Run hard, run fast

[@philipcampbell7548]

Best thing for my training recently has been going all out every Saturday morning for a parkrun

[@EoinEverard]

This is really well said

[@chrissandy9935]

Exactly what I needed to hear 👍

[@bobkrogh1670]

Came to the same conclusion last month after 1 year. TH sessions are simply easier and definitely don't cause anxiety. Easy to convince yourself that Vo2 sessions aren't needed or only the bare minimum. I'm an elite level master runner and always looking for ways to extend my competitive running and Vo2 sessions are the most risky. Even tried MAF training - terrible results for me. Ran much faster with basically, other than easy runs, only TH runs but not as fast as I ran when I threw in a Vo2 session in every week. Oh well, I'm old(57) and it is fun to tinker.

[@soccergalsara]

i Love tthis video. i started training consistenyl for the first time for 12 months a year ago and im 10 minutes faster in the half than i used to run simply by 1) increasing mileage 2) one long run (tecnical in places ) 3) one intervals a week. i got asked if i tailored any workouts to 10k or half. my answer was no, it's not needed, the mileage and one interval a week sufficed.

[@dardevle]

Great stuff!!!

[@darrenmee9753]

I needed to hear this! Anyone else? 🤚

[@Tomas-eb7qj]

I have similar experience but Im curious why is it working for Ingebrigtsens. Is it that 200m hill sprint workout that makes all the difference? Because I dont understand how running threshold intervals in like 2:50 pace prepares JI for running 2:20 pace in a mile or 1500.

[@Henjo29]

Last year I tried my first 16 week training schedule for a 10k. My goal was to finish in 45 minutes. Tuesdays (every other week) and Saturdays were speed repeats, 800m 3:59~4:14/km pace + 3min walk/recover. It started at 4 sets and gradually up to 20 sets. I absolutely hated those days, but it helped me and on race day I finished in 44 minutes.

[@amblincork]

Spped sessions are very difficult mentally and physically bit they definitely work

[@partyguinness]

20 sets of 800m?? That sounds a tad excessive…mix it up with longer intervals eg 1k x 5; 1600 x 6; 3 x 3k etc. but well done on the. Even the 2 x 5k back to back with 3mins walk…that’s fun.

[@samster176]

Great video! 👍

[@RaoBlackWellizedArman]

When doing VO2 work, if towards the end of it you don't hate yourself, training, and running altogether, you're not doing it right. 😂 OK, maybe that was a bit of exageration... you can stay just a tiny bit below it. But just a tiny bit! The good thing, tho, is you feel like a champ afterwards... I always feel proud of myself and start fantesizing the next session going 10s/Km faster. It's mostly wishful thinking. 😂

[@timsimon8995]

I get my best results when I do 2 sprint sessions a week and 2 endurance reps sessions a week, one of those threshold, plus easy jogs inbetween. Plus heavy weight training is key. Ppl need to talk more about heavy weights sessions. Less mileage, less threshold, more quality and more gym!

[@franklehouillier8865]

I don't think the psychological usefulness of hard running can be overstated.

[@stephenscullion262]

Yeah, I kept thinking “you’ve gotten a little soft” to myself during that recent session

[@devinprovence6554]

I think there’s a time for being stale and tired from a big base (as long as the strength and speed development is being simultaneously worked on with hills, strides, etc) and a time for being sharp both psychologically and physically. Don’t stress it Scully!!

[@jjjjames5824]

Got to disagree there, the brain doesn't need to be trained to suffer over and over the fight flight (which is basically what a race is) mechanism is ready to switch on at any time. You never 'forget' how to go hard.

[@franklehouillier8865]

@@jjjjames5824 There is as of now tons of clinical evidence that superior athletes do better in part because their brain does not perceive a given level of suffering as so much of a threat as less well trained athletes. We're not talking about training adrenaline but rather the Central Governor which is telling you that you need to slow down because running that hard is dangerous. You are absolutely correct that adrenaline does not need to be trained for and in fact, good runners need to train themselves to discount its effect on the body.

[@jjjjames5824]

@@franklehouillier8865 hi, yeah I've read about central governor theory; there are ways you can get your body to perceive race pace as less of a threat than threshold training that (just imho) are superior to threshold training e.g training much faster than race speed (very short alactic speed work), sessions that are way longer than a race (but obviously at a much slower pace). James

[@mccarticus]

Interesting and obviously probably very different for elite athletes versus your average runner. You were also saying recently that in the London buildup you weren't listening to your body and you were ignoring pain that was there etc. How do you marry that idea that you needed more rest/rehab perhaps with also needing to push harder?

[@rasmustorkel9568]

He is probably not going to answer but I'll give it a go: Reduce threshold mileage. Based on his other videos, he would probably also answer, do the strength work and build up more slowly (He indicated that he started his campaign to qualify for the Olympics too late). You are right, of course, in suggesting that you can't just keep adding intense stuff and not take anything out if you are already showing symptoms of doing too much.

[@onion3974]

i do threshold everyday, my average pace of my mileage is 3:25/k

[@yaukwankiuyaukwankiu2743]

Thanks

[@zaneclone]

I tend to view the steady/threshold runs as physical conditioning... muscles in the feet, ankles, ligaments in and around the knees, hips etc... all making me "resilient"... also good for mental fortitude... The real lung power/fitness will only come from HARD sessions, faster than race pace...

[@dave.1981]

I started running in March this year. At first I couldn't even run half a mile without stopping and feeling like my chest was on fire. My first 5k attempt I finished in 34 mins without stopping. I hadn't even heard about different zones I just ran until I couldn't run no more. Sometimes I would vomit after I stopped because I pushed myself so hard. Now my pb in the 5k is 24.56, not the fastest but a huge improvement. My average heart rate would always be high 170s to mid 180s with max heart rate going into the high 190s. I made such improvements without any threshold runs or slow runs, just going hard every run. I have only recently just started adding slower long runs into my training due to injuries. I still run hard at least twice a week though.

[@curingd]

I think it also depends on whether you've got more slow-twitch or fast-twitch fibres. If you're more fast-twitch, you'll respond better to VO2-style workouts whereas threshold will really take it out of you with much less benefit. I've gotten much, much better in the last two weeks by doing really strict interval training where I'm not letting the intensity drop and I'm definitely built better for sprinting rather than distance running (I just like running longer distances).

[@curingd]

Dr Stephen Seiler has said the same thing as well btw - not just me making that up.

[@HenkieHeadache]

I'm glad I found and use(d) a Stryd-pod (since 4 yrs now). It helped me to balance my intensities, injuries kept away and finally I could progress my fitness. No doubt, my best investment running-wise.

[@garybrown3788]

I had most success as a competitive runner off the back of a high mileage base but most miles run at low (Zone 2.) I sharpened up my pace by racing. I am of course an inferior runner to Stephen but it sounds to me as if he's done too much training at Zone 4

[@banksj54]

good advise and all but that gear is fire

[@JohnBirtchetSharpe]

Doing this at the moment (at my level ).. It sucks pretty much sums it up , but you do get a buzz when its finished.

[@andyranaway]

Stephen, my good brother, would love to learn your thoughts on training blocks that build speed into specificity: anaerobic power - anaerobic capacity - vo2max - threshold - race pace - volume - etc. do you think the traditional approach of building volume into speed is still relevant? Thanks

[@jozetrselic]

I usualy F... things up with an improper meal too close to my session and then strugle with bloating, acid reflux,... and then have to power through it, especialy in hot weather

[@jt.8144]

Nothing like a REALIST'S POINT OF VIEW. No Stats. No PBs. Just FACTS.

[@cristian-adrianfrasineanu9855]

Canova's atheletes do the exact opposite. They train around their race pace and don't do much work at all in the vo2max zone/anaerobic. Emile Cairess' training is public on LetsRun (posted by Renato himself)

[@stephenscullion262]

You don’t think during a hard fartlek at 7-8000ft people go above threshold? Up and down hills in Kenya?

[@cristian-adrianfrasineanu9855]

@@stephenscullion262 No. You may find some introductory sessions where they do hills for strength early in the macrocycle but he already explained why the non-polarized approach doesn't work as well as his approach of extending speed quality to garner the endurance for the race pace. This is as long as you don't believe that the paces he is running at are done above threshold which is unlikely given he ran a marathon at that pace.

[@Gwing152]

Speed / faster than race pace work Vo2 max Threshold Hills Long run Medium long run Easy days easy + some strides & 2 lifts a week on the hard days Hit these all every week through double hard sessions on wed / sat Became fitter than ever before. I did 10 day cycles with the kids I coach, over and over and a lot of them PR’d almost ever single race. Singles, no double hards for them

[@tonyyoung3381]

Good advice….. threshold with a light turnover seems to work well.. instead of 4*2k, breakdown the last 2k into faster 500’s?

[@francoislegerd.5116]

Love the content! Question: is v02 heart rate based or pace based, or either? Are say 15-20 min efforts at max effort will improve v02??

[@tiagoalves8579]

Hello, Your work out in Portugal is in Alverca? All good

[@bui340]

Anybody knowledgeable, would mixing threshold intervals training and constantly moving around all day make a good training strategy? I've heard that doing lots of threshold training should make you do even slower zone 2-training than otherwise so if you're just a slow amateur why not just do lots of walking, standing things like that in combination with the thresholds

[@partyguinness]

Would a couple of months rowing back to Z2 predominantly help to reset? But still retain intervals/speedwork x 2 per week.

[@aabc84]

How fit can I get by only doing 30 minutes max per workout my goal is to do 5k in 20 minutes and the moment it takes me 30 minutes to do 5k

[@test-dt5ku]

Does this mean that I should incorporate weekly VO2 max sessions while building my base? If not, when should i begin(i'm approx. 1.5 months through a 5 month szn, doing 2 steadies and 1 threshold tempo a week)?

[@stephenscullion262]

Maybe 1 x V02 every 10 days or so, would be ideal to see some progress. Could make 1 threshold session every 2nd week a little bit harder final few reps, not quite V02, but kind of threshold push reps. Then back to very controlled for next threshold etc..

[@13t1]

@@stephenscullion262 What you can underestimate, is that all the norwegian guys who are doing a lot of threshold do a lot of races during the base phase too. That means they do a lot of vo2 max stuff in the races. What do you think about that? How about just do a 3-5k race every 10-14 days?

[@stephenscullion262]

@@13t1 Yeah, I remember Gjert making that exact point about indoor racing.. That the specifc work, was getting out there and racing, but they also do 20 * 200s uphill most saturdays, pretty hard, or 1k repeats etc.. The problem is (I assumed that was the specific day), and I always then thought "Ok, I'm a Half marathon runner, or Marathon runner" My specific day should be (guess what!?) MORE THRESHOLD haha.. but in all seriousness, they do V02 max basically 1 * per week every week.

[@13t1]

@@stephenscullion262 I think hill sprints is more for running economy cause there just too short for vo2 max. And the 1k is sub threshold. And later they are doing 20x300m instead of the hill sprints and this is per lactate sub threshold too (and if not they just to short too), so the only real vo2max they are doing is the racing.And if you look at Ingebrigtsen when he was young he did 30+ races per year.

[@orangeorphan]

I feel like threshold pace IS race pace for a lot of people. Vo2 max is for shorter efforts, no?

[@maurorenard82]

Depends on the distance. For threshold pace usually coincides with half marathon pace. 10k is 15 seconds faster than threshold per km, and 5k is usually 30 seconds faster than threshold per km. Marathon pace is usually 15 seconds slower than threshold pace per km. For example, my 5k is 4:15 min/km, my 10k is 4:30 min/km, my half marathon 4:45 min/km (my threshold runs go from 4:40 to 4:50), and my marathon is 5min/km, at least in theory.

[@NickFrahm]

It's interesting seeing the different approaches the elites have to the marathon. What Mantz and Young do for the USA seems to track more with what you describe here. Good video, Scully.

[@stephenscullion262]

Yeah I've seen their schedules, and seems they prioritise pace a lot, which given the altitude, trying to run at paces relevant to 2.05-7 marathon etc.. is harder than threshold. There track work is also just quality

[@NickFrahm]

@@stephenscullion262 yep. A couple weeks ago they did 2x(1600/1200/800) around 10k/5k/3k pace in the middle of a 120 mile week. Mental toughness and physical toughness required for that. As a side note, I have to say it's incredible you and those guys put out what they do for everyone to see on Strava. I speak for everyone when I say that it's awesome for the sport. Keep up the good work, man.

[@LeePrice82]

"this is hell on earth"... and the camera cuts to you with a body straight out of a Marvel movie whilst running around the most beautiful lake 😂 ...I think you'll work through your problems 👍🙂

[@LeePrice82]

Aside from that this video was very useful. I like this kinda discussion 🙌

[@stephenscullion262]

Hahaha

[@esgee3829]

ffs bakken nailed this years ago. 10% is reserved for supra lt2 so long as your body can handle it. why is there still debate? we're not talking about 7+ hr im efforts of course.

[@BrothBoss]

David Goggins has entered the chat

[@jt.8144]

..Look at here kids. Another "copy and paste" E-diot.

[@RunnersUniteCoaching]

most of his runs are way below threshold lol

[@BrothBoss]

@@RunnersUniteCoaching safe to assume you’ve never read his first book?

[@kavinmendez7589]

@@BrothBosssafe to assume you’ve only read his book and done nothing more than

[@2011hwalker]

@@BrothBoss Goggins has no knees left and never ran any *times* of particular note. Listen to olympic athletes if you want to run faster.

[@vlid0]

I don't do VO2 max sessions - I like to race instead (certainly not every week, though). Any tips on how to find the optimal amount of races I should do?

[@gtromble]

Totally depends on the length of race. Lots of people run Park Run (5K) nearly every week and it's basically a 20 min thereabouts VO2 max session. If you're racing longer distances, they should be farther apart. But if it's VO2 max you're targeting, 5K or below is the intensity you need.

[@amblincork]

Do at lest one repeat speed sessions - eg 400, 800 mtre ot even one mile intervals - two a week is better

[@mikes5764]

Me too. One 5K parkrun every week if the body feels fine. Just not all out, because the purpose is training (for the marathon) and not racing (the fastest 5K).

[@swaginfinite9165]

Stephen, when you mentioned running 4x2km at a pace a little quicker than threshold, is that critical velocity? Critical veloctiy is defined as the pace between 10kpace and threshold pace, and for elites its between HM pace and threshold pace.

[@stephenscullion262]

Yes I would say so

[@craigpillsbury989]

Couple of teeth missing that knock’s a few grams off cp🏃🏻‍♂️😂

[@jennyh7850]

Hey Steven, based on what you have been talking about in your videos, you have expressed you want to: 1. Increase your VO2 max, 2. go back to basics and condition your muscles with yoga and rolling, 3. work on your psychology. Please try hot yoga. It will do all of these things with 2 sessions weekly. Please google the recent published studies, or check out the published peer-reviewed journal article ‘Cardiovascular, Cellular, and Neural Adaptations to Hot Yoga versus Normal-Temperature Yoga’. -“Maximal aerobic fitness increased in the HY group only. No evidence of heat acclimation or change in mental stress was observed. Serum BDNF significantly increased in yoga groups combined.”

[@marathonmimmi]

Hi

[@Zelenskyyyyyyyyy]

Are you still enjoying running?I see you a bit down lately.

[@Averagebum21]

LOL, a month ago you said threshold is key.

[@stephenscullion262]

Yes, and tbh it still is very important, but don't "just do threshold etc.." add in other zones.

[@nicholasfevelo3041]

Sounds like its a bit of overtraining

[@markhuizar1871]

Threshold = money in the bank. VO2 = Spending money on fitness

[@jjjjames5824]

How to train for just about any endurance sport. 1- lots of aerobic endurance base work (ideally for many months) 2- 3-4 weeks of higher intensity work intervals/threshold etc 3- 2 weeks to taper/freshen up 4- race No need to overcomplicate

[@PoeyJerkins]

jokes on you, if i run in the sun for more than a couple miles then every run is a threshold run

[@stephenscullion262]

hahaha me also

[@Strizzle81]

Great content!