Can you beat Hades while only making the WORST choices? | Haelian

[@fullcrimp7462]

I'd love to see a version of this with two people, one person controls for the fighting part and is trying to win the run, then the other person controls boon choices / door choices / in shops etc, and is trying to make the run lose. I feel like it would make the run way easier to follow by eliminating all the edge case rules (plus colabs / guests are always cool)

[@ondrejandydlohos]

This could be a really cool concept!

[@treschlet]

bwahahhaa all choices are voted on by chat

[@azuremoon4372]

that's great

[@ChaosCause3000]

@@treschletI JUST made the same suggestion in another comment 😂 I think it would be really fun! But I also like fullcrimp’s suggestion to have another pro make the choices, because they have even more knowledge of what really doesn’t work, and I could be fun if they then switch so that haelian gets to have his revenge

[@treschlet]

Dusa improvement: she sticks around the whole round, but a) her attack rate slows if you're not dealing damage, and if you don't attack for awhile, she gets frustrated and leaves because you're wasting her time. and b) as you take damage, she rampages and her attack rate goes way up, because PROTECC

[@Haelian]

Oooo

[@treschlet]

Aside from making Dusa more useful, would make for some neat high-risk-high-reward gameplay, rather than just another AOE

[@amanofnoreputation2164]

"I can't roll doors because it's too complicated." Having a benefit and simply not using it is a pretty bad choice as it is.

[@treschlet]

I feel like a run like this isn't about "intentionally" nerfing yourself, but specifically roleplayer as a player that has really bad judgement. So don't need to sell things or force re-rolls, just gotta act like a player that is trying to win but is REALLY bad at math

[@Avendesora]

That's just a shiny run

[@geoffgrubert]

@@Avendesora well not specifically, it’s based on rarity

[@trebmal587]

What you're saying made me think that a 32 run where Haelian would pick what he thinks is the most overrated by new players would be pretty fun and informative.

[@samuelbrown7466]

And getting carried by op ass gilga claws

[@Avendesora]

@@geoffgrubert The joke is that new players are easily done in by "higher tier= better"

[@jR0xas]

I love these runs because he always ends up with a high level Empty Inside.

[@Shadow_284]

Honestly the Hades fight in this vid felt more like how my runs usually go. Taking a bunch of damage and growing increasingly more frustrated/panicked as it continues. Vs. most of your runs where you destroy him almost instantly without even trying. Was refreshing to see. xD

[@Oblivion9996]

Potentially interesting way to make this a battle against bad decisions would be to get a person who is either very new to hades or has never played hades to choose your boons, and see if you can fight their decision making to clear the run, probably on a higher heat level

[@therox98]

I'd say that getting someone not familiar with Hades, or even games in general, to make your choices. Could be 2 runs. One that the person is trying to take the best option and one trying to take the worst.

[@ondrejandydlohos]

Yeah, just from how the choices sounds to him he should decide, cool.

[@RJR4646]

Dan forced to pick Empty Inside and pom it: "i feel dead inside"

[@treschlet]

Dusa summon is more like a Bard song. Buffs the player's skill by improving morale, because Dusa is with you

[@jspp80]

"Make the worst decision possible -- as best we can." Love it.

[@Haelian]

People get more possessive over these choices than trying to make the right choices lol

[@manfrombc5162]

I think it would make sense that you can make optimal decisions until you're in the boon selection screen. So you can pick the doors you want and what items to buy in the shop, but in the "Choose One" screen you'll take the worst option. However, I do think it makes sense to do the worst pact and mirror set up as well.

[@Haelian]

Problem with doing the worst pact is that is always starts with Routine Inspection. So even with only 12 heat on, we'd just have no Mirror. It's a tough aspect to include in this.

[@jarmakey1]

1. I didn't realize how often double exits are offered until I watched this video. It seemed like every chamber had 2 exits. Especially in Elysium. 2. I hope the boon I want to pom in my next run shows up as often as empty inside did here lol

[@cyberpigion1334]

I know Dusa's companion is the worst in terms of damage, but it's still Dusa, so it'll stay the best in my heart

[@Ingestedbanjo]

Aw man, Gilgamesh is my favourite aspect. Granted I'm only a novice at the game (never even passed about 4 heat) but I love just holding down attack+dodge the whole run.

[@TheAnjelHarte]

Gilgamesh is a blast for dash-only runs, but it’s clunky and very vulnerable if you’re trying to do a lot of damage quickly and efficiently. (I do a gilgamesh splash-dash-only run every few times I use the fists at this point) My fav malphon aspect is Demeter- You still get big health-bar-melting damage like gilgamesh, but I find the dash attack rhythm on Demeter to be more satisfying than Gilgamesh’s big meaty claws I always adore hearing new player perspectives- my favorite aspects have changed so much since I started moving up the heat levels! I hope you keep having fun w the game I’ve gotten so many hours out of it lol

[@Ingestedbanjo]

@@TheAnjelHarte Ah I get it, Gilgamesh is fun for low level but not so great at higher levels. I just like how silly it gets, especially if you get an epic/heroic Greatest Reflex. And then either Artemis and Chaos dash strike boons or Poseidon dash with the double knockback or Sea Storm. Plus there's Lightning Reflexes to add lightning on top of a dash. But yeah that all seems to require a lot of luck anyway, especially getting a high rarity Greatest Reflex. Also I never remember to use the special pretty much on any fists, but especially not on Gilgamesh (cos it's just so comfortable holding A and X and almost never taking my thumb off those buttons haha). So, getting a hammer that only affects the special really sucks. For the same reason, I don't think I've ever once tried Demeter fists. IDK if I'll get into doing high heat runs. Currently just having fun installing mods and using the Codex mod to make things sandboxy. Used the Stygian Soul, then gave myself all the boons that increase your bloodstones/reduce the regen time, and then Crystal Clarity ice turrets with the duration boon really high so I could throw about 30-40 out before the first ones started despawning... This'll sound really dumb but I think half my enjoyment of Hades (and similar games thinking about it) is just creating as much visual noise as possible, like Zagreus is his own fireworks display :D Anyway thanks for leaving a really friendly comment. I was worried I'd get called a noob for confessing my love for Gilgamesh (but tbh after the last thing I said, noob is probably justified hahaha).

[@Haelian]

I was kidding for the most part, it's just not my personal favorite.

An absolute zero decision run where after the initial setup, you don't have a choice in anything. We have that built in as a pact of punishment for the boons. You also can't choose a door, you always just take right. If Chaos gate is more to the right of the screen than the doors you take it. If it is to the left, you take a door. (or if someone wants to write a mod for it than after the game decided internally what will be on the doors, it makes a 50-50 and both doors get changed to bring you to the same reward so you don't even get to see what the other option would have been. This would include Chaos gates if available in that room.) You can either keep the same keepsake for the entire run, or randomize every time which one to take, whichever option is liked by chat better. You can only shop if you have money for everything and have to buy everything the shop offers. So it is an all or nothing there. In Styx you can only buy from a well after you have bought everything in the shop (naturally only if you can afford everything that is in the well) Before the run begins and you have explained everything to chat you can let them choose a number between 1-3. The winning number comes in play if you somehow end up with Eurydice for example. (I don't remember if the pact reduces hammer choices as well, if not, then same option for hammer as the number choosen) Or roll on a random number generator, whichever you prefer. If you like pain, you can do the initial setup with a randomizer as well. All mirror choices, weapon and aspect, which keepsake to take with you, which pacts of punishments to take, but that is tedious, so you can set it up in a way that you think would be fun. This can probably be done easier or has been done before, but this is what has popped up in my mind at 2am.

[@landonionm]

Watching this run left me feeling empty inside

[@JudeofAwesometon]

I mean worst decison would be running 64 heat with this xD

[@lolmanthecat]

Title "making bad choices" Me "his fight against hades feels very similar to my fights against hades!" me again "oh..."

[@jio21]

next time dan we believe

[@nileprimewastaken]

the hydra kill was actually how i first beat that boss 😅 i had a fists special build and just spammed dash in, upper, dash out

[@CSmyth-]

Wow I'm insulted, Empty Inside is the best boon in the game, I can't believe you were so hard on it

[@AleXRuja]

I'd say that for Chaos gates, the one you should choose is the one with the worst outcome, so probably the one where your special is buffed

[@RJR4646]

The worst aspect is kinda a huge debate... probably we have to consider low or high heat, best possible or worst possible or average build with boons, duo boons, spam attack/special. Lets talk about Arthur Sword for example: Slow? Yes, but not the worst because you still can do somethings to get advantage from the range and you can do a 32 heat without Tight Deadline. Gilgamesh have 3 "possible" builds: dash build, dash strike and dash special, but none of this builds are simple to achieve 32 heat. You have the option to go for Tight Deadline, but lack dmg in early game.

[@LCCDirewolf]

thanks father for keeping up the content.

[@viviblue7277]

You definitely could’ve concocted a stupider mirror.

[@johndoe-sh6bi]

Nothing is dumber than thinking "stupider" is a word.

[@viviblue7277]

@@johndoe-sh6bi “comparative adjective: stupider” read a dictionary man. It’s a real word. It’s in Merriam Webster. It’s in Oxford. If you’re going to call someone wrong have the decency to fact check yourself.

[@johndoe-sh6bi]

@@viviblue7277 alright you got me. I really thought that wasn't a word. I also just really wanted to be a smart ass

[@CrippledJokerlol]

He finally did it, he didn't clear his throat lol

[@2ndclassking949]

My idea for a variation of this challenge is you do nightmare approval process (you always take the worst option on any screen approval process would apply to) and take the worst doors. Everything else can be used to your advantage to win. You might have to do 32 heat for it to be a challenge.

[@mackerelmafia2898]

40:30 My brother in christ, it usually takes me longer :(

[@TheMrSword]

The real worst choice would be doing 64 heat

[@zaxenien]

I feel like a good way to change the run archetype would be to give you one boon choice a floor and then all other choices have to be worst possible. You can then rake the choice to roll boons and give yourself the best chance at getting a few boons to counter the pain

[@darrengaroutte7744]

I think an interesting run could be to have max approval process on with Mom Pom for your keepsake the whole run. You could use fated authority to roll pom doors for boons. Call the runs "In the Hands of Fate".

[@ThatBlueBadger]

arguably, the worst choice you can make would be resetting the mirror and not reinvesting any points into it, but that's just picking teethat this point

[@gunfugames7430]

Felt like my attempts to make chaos shield build. Ended up completely ignoring special.

[@_Rhatsody]

haelian gave me whiplash from the npc streamer impression in Styx

[@brandonkruse6412]

Seeing you skip your second hammer for a pom made me physically ill 😂

[@Nat_the_Chicken]

It could be interesting to play Than chambers completely wrong, since I feel like a noob approach to those could be "ignore the contest and just dodge until Than takes out all the enemies for me." On the other hand that would be pretty slow and not much fun to watch lol

[@TheUnlocked]

You should convince another Hades runner to pick what they think is the worst play in every scenario. That way you don't need to logic it out and you can also make bad choices around things like rolling and shops.

[@CreepyLilDude]

Dont know if you have ever done it but i would enjoy a run where you sell all three boon choices every time you get an opportunity. See if you can keep resetting the build and making it work. Call it the tax man.

[@TeebuOCE]

Run Idea. 32 heat but the hardest pact of punishment for the respective aspect. Purely youtube enjoyer here but thanks for the enjoyable content

[@vellichor7676]

Methinks that having a single Attack boon would have possibly made the difference here... lol. You were doing so little damage by the end!

[@ChaosCause3000]

Great video as always! Have you ever done a run where chat gets to make the choices (via votes or something)?

[@Haelian]

We have, it's a bit of a slog given how many times the run has to get paused for voting. I don't think it ever made it to YT for basically that reason, it wasn't a ton different from just a double Approval Process run lol.

[@pumbaa667]

The last fight was really fun to watch !

[@ChaosCause3000]

One way to utilize the re-rolls is to stack the odds more into your favor. You still have to take worst choice, but you get to re-roll hoping that the worst choice is better than the current one. I think it could be quite funny gambling for something better but than end up with sweet surrender* anyway * I meant empty inside 😅

[@PopeGoliath]

Turning on 64 heat would have been a bad choice.

[@azuremoon4372]

Doing the 2 person idea someone else suggested but just allow chat to make the desicions to try and make you lose could be fun

[@AnthonyMcNeil]

Passion Dash is definitely the worst 😂

[@sgt.zaitsev287]

Lore accurate Zagreus. Hes canonically a bottom, of course hes terrible at making decisions

[@zaneharrison4435]

I’m sick and tired of the slander against my favorite aspect >:( How can you possibly say it’s the worst when Zag spear exists

[@Haelian]

There there

[@kochathefat327]

would approval process actually be useful here?

[@darrylsessions1926]

Need a run with the mid decisions

[@TehLazerPikle]

i wonder how good would a sniper build be? using orpheus keepsake and sniper shot on the bow trying to keep max range as much as possible

[@Haelian]

I've tried, not sure it's here but sadly it's one of the worst hammers in the game and very hard to make it do anything.

[@DrGodCarl]

I couldn't even tell what killed you at the end. I did a frame-by-frame and still couldn't figure it out. What am I missing?

[@Haelian]

Game got hacked.

[@Nobidejdjhandle]

Haelian, I swear I came up with the most OP 32 heat build and could possibly be the NEW META

[@Nobidejdjhandle]

If you can reach out I’d more than happily share everything! The run was so easy I didn’t lose a single death defiance until hades and that’s because I didn’t know about Cerberus or that he had a third phase

[@eheveronsmith]

Wow... being a KZbin-only watcher, I don't think I've ever seen you lose a run before. 😢😢😢

[@jacksonh6804]

I’ve watched all of these bad runs and the input that I would like to give is that we should do a naïve run instead of just bad.

[@Haelian]

Hmmm, how can we do that?

[@jacksonh6804]

@@Haelianlike a new player would realize that their run isn’t a slam dunk and they’d reroll a gem room to go for boons, and they’d obviously take juicy sounding hammers not knowing that the coding is broken for certain weapons/boons… same for boon synergies. Hell I still double down on perceived boon synergies having no idea if they even work. I’m pretty sure I took a +30% Hermes boon just last night that didn’t even work with my weapon 😅 Basically what I’m saying is that we could segregate “bad” runs as a form of hard challenge (more freedom to make truly terrible stupid decisions) from “misguided” runs which would actually mirror a new player’s choices pretty closely.

[@MDWFlipIt]

Technically speaking, the worst choice someone could make is dying on purpose in the first chamber.

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

I've done that deliberately in order to progress a couple of quest lines.

[@ondrejandydlohos]

@@LloydTheZephyrian I think most of us did :D

[@adamreed3177]

Uh wrong... Gilgamesh is great for speed running u get 2 extras dashes plus hermes dashes with tidal wave and just hold dash button constantly plus sea storm. It wrecks

[@BoooBoooKaaa]

Worst choice is 64 heat... Challenge failed. Although I'd rather invest years of my life grinding away until I beat 64 heat rather than seeing a lvl 8 Empty inside, so maybe not. That many poms on that boon probably puts you on ALL the watch lists :D

[@gintuner4371]

Worst is kind of hard to define for the various choices, but it might interesting for someone who runs this game so much to base their decisions at each juncture to be based on what they believe will net them the least of amount of clear speed. A super-focused slow-run, i suppose.

[@theformation3781]

Doesnt dusa do at least 2k damage?

[@wonderinggodling]

I Love Gilgamesh! The Worst Aspect Is Guan Yu

[@semasemasemasema]

I kinda wished you would wash away all of your boons in-between chapters

[@hamdepaf6686]

I mean 64 heat is obviously the worst choice

[@yassinnegraj1351]

This hurts my eyes

[@Twitticus]

I think core boons should be a priority, but you just pick boons that don’t work well with the weapon aspect and don’t have good synergy. Otherwise most of these videos seem the same.

[@mrmediocre848]

The worst choice would be to stop playing Hades

[@h2hisoka134]

Why is gilgamesh aspect the worst ?

[@Haelian]

Mostly joking, just my least favorite personally. It doesn't do especially well at very high heat or speedruns either but that's honestly not very important.

[@trebmal587]

While Gilgamesh is a pretty mediocre aspect in general, I think it's actually somewhat good for that kind of run. So this is an invalid run IMO.

[@guymoreillon9807]

It looks like me playing 😅

[@goldenhorde6944]

Bruh we've seen you Gilg gameplay you just never use the maim, the basic attack isn't even that weak.

[@Haelian]

???

[@user-fi8cg8ne3f]

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