Can you guess the time signature? (ft. phonon)

○ Patreon: / shawncrowder
○ phonon: / phononmusic
○ emme (this song): sptfy.com/5jRh
Phonon and I break down his new track "emme". Can you guess the time signatures?
Merch:
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○ / shawncrowder

[@itchykami]

'Guess the signature!' 'No, you're close, I actually did e/5.3 but with 13 uneven tempered double-nested tuplets at 35 bpm. But then I add a 1/8th beat every prime-numbered measure.'

[@enderkoregameing8090]

alternating between diminished dominant 76th add b15 Slash e flat 29-EDO and F15 add6 omit 11 #13 sus 4 in dorian with pythagorean temperament detuned to 435.2+(1^e)/π

[@thefastmeow]

* no it's just 4/4 *

[@Rhastae]

@@thefastmeow Laughs in Meshuggah

[@NicolasPL_]

that's actually a cool idea, the prime-numbered measure thing

[@gnxrly]

e? as in 2.718? I'm new to music theory so please explain

[@Zelgeon]

brb making music in 420/69 time signature

[@TheSquareOnes]

@@coracias If you fill a bar of 4/4 evenly with one giant 69-tuplet then that gives you the note rate for X/69 time signatures. Since everything is related back to 4/4 (in traditional notation anyway) and you can hypothetically fit any number of notes into that you can actually figure out how to put any number at the bottom of a time signature, although actually figuring out how to play any of it once you get out of the "easy" stuff like X/12 and X/20 is another matter entirely. Unrelated to that but related to the subject of 69-tuplets, I've been watching a lot of this drumline channel EMCproductions lately and he actually has a video where he performs a piece with tons of 69-tuplets in it. No irrational time signatures but it's still pretty wild and well worth checking out for anyone who likes to mix absurd music and memes.

[@forbiddenfursona]

69/420* it is more easy to parse and more reasonable

[@ldub0775]

@@forbiddenfursona no but it would be less funny

[@forbiddenfursona]

@@ldub0775 it is still funny because we all keep saying "69420" nowadays than the other way around

[@ldub0775]

@@forbiddenfursona yea but it would be less funny

[@LukeTheringMusic]

ah, yes, I see. what you're saying is... math + math = math

[@BrianKrock]

I am officially a fan of phonon! 17.75/40 is wild.... I'd love to see if a group of live musicians could play that groove *together* and *accurately*...

[@phononmusic]

thank you !! i love your work so that means a lot

[@andy148]

@@phononmusic There are many freaks out there with the chops to do this kind of crazy shit

[@KiraPlaysGuitar]

@@andy148 I would even go so far as to say there aren't many.

[@nanamacapagal8342]

What Sean thought up here was pretty close, but not quite. He came up with 7+5+6/8 = 18/8. Close but not really. And I'd argue that the bottom number of 40 didn't really matter anyway because who the hell's gonna hear it as 10tuplets instead of 8th notes that everyone jumps straight to. Occam's razor. Simple is best.

[@illford6921]

I'd love to see a live jazz, dubstep fusion band

[@eugenefender1279]

7:00 - even Shawn can't believe he's saying the phrase "71 one-hundred-and-sixtyth notes"

[@grisus7254]

Oh you like music? Name every time signature

[@forbiddenfursona]

oh you like music? name every interval ratio

[@yeledcruvit3832]

@@forbiddenfursona damn i think i just like math

[@greatwavefan397]

There's OVER 9000!!!!

[@niji_k]

{x/y | x∈(-∞,∞), y∈(-∞,∞)} There.

[@forbiddenfursona]

@@niji_k thanks

[@kaktusovo_mlijeko]

I like the SpongeBob background.

[@reyngp]

Yes

[@lukec1471]

Not sure if this video is about math or music anymore lol

[@santotiago80]

Music is maths

[@whoneedsanation]

Music is the number moving in space and time

[@SiberianSpheres]

@@santotiago80 Boards of Canada - Music Is Math

[@kalliboymusic]

Music is Math

[@jancestr1054]

Phonon is just mad man and I love it. Dubstep scene really need it someone like this

[@sebastiannanook531]

Listen to karunkula on souncloud

[@freakdeath1020]

@@sebastiannanook531 now that I've searched it, and new to the broad jazz genre, how should I enjoy this?

[@agamaz5650]

@@freakdeath1020 voljum

[@samuelivascu7633]

@@agamaz5650 the 3 greats jn jazztronica/future riddim rn are qwaston, phonon and voljum. Immense talent

[@Silhouetters]

@@samuelivascu7633 Don't forget Dr. Lobster!

[@maxkolbl1527]

So I understood the analyses of each section but I would never have been able to hear these things myself. Really incredible to watch you just... hear these things 😂

[@nothingburger.]

I find it fascinating how the track maintains its musicality in a way that you can still tap to it in time after hearing it a few times, and that it still feels natural to listen to. Amazing work

[@enderkoregameing8090]

repetition legitimizes

[@NickTheSickDick]

repetition legitimizes

[@wacwpd]

thats actually what we need to keep music concept evolving

[@nikosucksatskating]

repetition legitimizes

[@jokokroko]

repetition legitimizes

[@dliessmgg]

amazing that someone could out-nerd shawn on rhythms, but it happened

[@phononmusic]

first hehe

[@dwightbrady5599]

Please remix a song by CarBomb. The time-space continuum hasn't been ripped far enough apart.

[@NicolasPL_]

@@dwightbrady5599 FUCKING YESSSS

[@NicolasPL_]

Bro phonon how you call this, MathStep or what? Lmao

[@notoriusdrifter40]

@@NicolasPL_ *POLYRIDDIM*

[@NicolasPL_]

@@notoriusdrifter40 but this is not riddim, right?

[@cennedyelmer9664]

phonon:i actually try to make a math formula my 2 brain cells: math?

[@AugmentedLaunchpad]

Phonon is like the equivalent of modern art Like yeah you could have done 5.2/4 as your time signature *but did you though*

[@MandrakeGuy]

and now we just gotta hope that it becomes big enough for 5.2 to be a daily time signature

[@uvi_music]

71/160 help

[@enderkoregameing8090]

Felt, Also hey again Undervania

[@uvi_music]

@@enderkoregameing8090 LOL

[@nanamacapagal8342]

The second one I'm pretty sure it sounded like 13/8 (the first measure is 10/8)

[@nanamacapagal8342]

Eighth notes come at around 220 bpm I guess

[@parascleo]

Fancy seeing you here

[@thatgreenparrot9732]

Almost spit my coffee when we get to 8:46 hahaha.

[@lightningkiki6090]

Phonon is like the Jacob Collier of Rhythm Imagine if they collab on something. They are completely different styles but they are also both so insane that they can make it work

[@FredbrStudios]

FRRRRRRR

[@ethanjyoungmusic]

I am both terrified and in love how out of the box these time signatures are

[@benkirkpatrick6343]

We are watching history in the making. This kid is gonna make serious moves.

[@BradsGonnaPlay]

The audible YES i screamed when I got this one right. I did a video on Facebook years before this whole quintuplet craze took over the experimental music world so whenever I can count an irrational meter, it makes me happy.

[@trudyandgeorge]

These non-integer signatures sound good and idgaf what anyone says... *Pythagoras has entered the chat*

[@ignaciojauregui7423]

Love your videos Shawn!! Always teach me something crazy.

[@isfanags]

4:01 7:17 he is the only one who can headbang to his music

[@mrshlmusic]

I can get close to headbanging to this.

[@DestinyAwaitsChannel]

Love the information and insight. Good collaboration.

[@pedrosilvaproductions]

Phonon: *listens to a scratched CD on the car* "that's my jam right there"

[@LeoPerantoni]

This is insanely interesting haha. I was completely overjoyed watching it. Great content!

[@melonenstrauch1306]

I love phonon because he has the absolute balls to do something in EDM that would even be way out there in a Jazz environment and also because he's a cutie

[@jamesporter9492]

crossover of the century

[@wolowolowolo]

Great!! I'm so into this type of stuff!

[@shrineofbeats6447]

Two legends together, WoW This video's gonna be fun 😉

[@kage-fm]

“i am a person in a chair making funny music.” relatable

[@LUSCIOUSDUNCAN]

This is so amazing man. My buddies and I are almost 100% sure we are the first people making rap in odd time signatures; We have tracks in 11 and 13 and 9 and all that fun stuff BUT...we have not made one with any tuplets within the signature! 🤔 looks like we gwon be hoppin in da lab real quik 🤔

[@JaySuryavanshiMusic]

Adam Neely: *4/20 is the meme time signature* Shawn Crowder at 9:36: *4/30*

[@KevinLuWX]

My band conductor who thinks that I play out of time don't understand that I'm just playing in a time signature he can't comprehend.

[@loganstewart7065]

There's a ton of mathematical rigamaroll going on here that could basically only be theory crafted with a DAW/analog MIDI grid. Really cool but VERY VERY far out by traditional timing standards.

[@loganstewart7065]

I love phonon's reaction to this as well. He admits to being more programmer than musician but doesn't diminish his musical quality in any way. Great sport, love the man.

[@heroforest]

I became an instant fan. Wow. What cool weird shit. Producing dubstep with unusual time signatures (not necessarily irrational, but out of 4/4) was what I wanted to do when starting to learn production around 4 years ago. I don't know if I'll ever get there, but damn, Phonon, I *love* this.

[@MartijnHover]

That is so far over my head that I'm afraid I might drown.

[@Stronkium444]

And they say DJ's don't know music theory

[@havokmusicinc]

Pure math - Xenakis would appreciate it

[@zapharatu]

This reminds me of composers of the earlier 20th century, like Henry Cowell, writing extremely complex polyrhythmic music that could only be played on player pianos or specially designed instruments like the Rythmicon. It’s cool to see this kind of stuff slowly work it’s way into modern EDM. It makes sense since DAWs are sort of like a modern version of a player piano.

[@jonatandjurachkovitch460]

About the first rhythm: I usually divide septuplets into 2+2+3, and quintuplets into 3+2, and one of the hi-hat hits is almost excactly in between the 3 and the 2. This makes it into 1.5+1.5+2, which is extremely similar to 2+2+3, and tricks my ear into believing that it's septuplets. Going off just the "main" pulses, the difference between septuplet and quintuplet swing is extremely small (about 3% of the entire beat), so it's pretty hard to tell from just that.

[@josephdailey2610]

It's subtle. That 1.5 + 1.5 + 2 is the Mission Impossible groove with the last two beats tied. That's my reference.

[@metallicafan3124]

8:20 broke my mind

[@nandankulkarni2628]

I was listening to All Nighter Vol. 5 and was like hey, this sound design sounds kinda familiar! And that's how I started following phonon lol

[@serph2951]

I didn't understand anything but I loved the SpongeBob green screen background

[@ishandave3542]

So, is Sungazer playing this live now Shawn?

[@husnainali-gn8bo]

For Adam's sake, I hope not

[@Bobbias]

This is awesome, also WTF, this is some super cool rhythmic shit.

[@gonzaloverdejo3166]

Great video , i didnt understand anything , but great vid

[@surveil3548]

I felt so clever after guessing the last one HAD to have nested tuplets lol

[@DickEnchilada]

Alternate title: Shawn Crowder speaks to an actual Time Lord

[@brettshrekington]

He’s so young!! Holy shit the way his music sounded like he woulda been like 40 because my brain can’t even process it it’s so epic I love his music

[@rendagreat1866]

omg dubstep on a normal youtube channel??? omggggg im not crying i promise

[@ZakiUramaki]

Hi Shawn, love your channel and your rhythmic madness! Can I ask you how did you develop this amazing rhythmic awareness? Greetings from Italy!

[@stevenaustin4591]

holy shit dude! this is like advanced algebra of time signatures! Pure Crazy!!!

[@assman6249]

this is sick

[@nicblaze6428]

This is so cool

[@snowau6079]

Phonon is just a musical genius, let's just leave it at that

[@themandownstairs4765]

WE GOT THE COLLAB OF THE CENTURY YESSS

[@erischl]

I was so happy for having figured the first one out then everything happened

[@wacwpd]

Wise words at the end of the video

[@Jinsulmusic]

These time signatures are crazy

[@genesis_tracks]

NO WAY!!! LETS GOOOO!!!

[@DomPalombiMusic]

Dang, get we drummers have a lot more counting to do than we thought 😂

[@DavidThePercussionist]

Music and math, you love to see it

[@fsquare6305]

RIDDIM

[@humanthenarrator]

I love how phonon just casually appears

[@aries_9130]

I feel like my brain just exploded

[@Philrc]

aaaggghhh!!! brain spinning help!! MUST STOP !

[@stephenweigel]

Some of these meters are refreshingly awesome, I was surprised. phonon should check out Project JDM if he wants to figure out how to notate micro rhythms

[@elijahpinkerton]

Really does raise the question of what is left to prove on physical instruments. We may have a far more 'human' experience on guitars/basses/saxes/drums/etc, but in terms of boundary pushing, electronic and synthesized music is far more precise than us. Its like trying to draw a fractal. Humans can only get so close, computer simulations can repeat the exact pattern with perfect detail. But music is just wiggly air so fuck it

[@lars167]

phonon is actually a god

[@SaintMont]

What !!!? My mind hurts lol. I'm still not figure it out what time signature is a song with a simple odd signature less I can think about this craziness 😂 !!!

[@timguo6858]

crazy

[@morbida]

I now know where I personally draw the line on music thats "too technical". XD

[@drummingFelix]

Could you make a short video just for the formular at the end and fill in easy example numbers. I did not get all the Ws, Gs and Is etc. Great video though. There is another shortcut to find out what exact tempo the modulated new tempo has. So you can get it right away for practicing a figure, groove and so on. Example: Old tempo is 113 bpm per quarter Note, we play 16th notes. Then, for instance, you want to modulate, so that every 5th sixteenth note is the new pulse. Use the following way: Old tempo / grouping (e. g. 3 over 5, 7 over 3 etc.) In this case we have 5 over 4 113 / 5 And then multiply by the number of the structure "over y" in this case y = 4 113/5 = 22.5 x 4 new tempo = 90.5 bpm Rule of thump: When the grouping is smaller then the "over y" number the modulated tempo is faster; is the grouping number bigger, like in the example, the new tempo is slower.

[@victorheras5882]

This is just a flex on how much music theory he knows

[@KonStafylides]

Except its not really music theory, it's just useless stuff people make up to artificially make their compositions seem smarter. No real use for the concepts mentioned in this vid

[@eviltears650]

@@KonStafylides you make music?

[@dyll1187]

@@KonStafylides Jazz wouldn’t be the way it is without music theory

[@KonStafylides]

@@dyll1187 What does that have to do with my comment? Do you think I said theory is useless? I said that concepts like fractional time signatures and jargon described in this video are useless and just made to show off, with no real musical value

[@hendrik6156]

@@KonStafylides I mean phonon really uses this stuff. So its not useless

[@alvinviklund]

Top 10 anime crossovers

[@atefxf]

I LOVE PHONON

[@tippy6335]

I'm not stupid, but phonon makes me feel like it

[@peter-hassett]

this rules

[@peter-hassett]

5.2/4 makes me angry for some reason? need to think about my life choices

[@peterjuff]

I rolled my eyes at the thought of 5.2 over 4, but when I heard it I was like 😎👍🏽💥

[@SpanishLibertarian]

I recommend you to make the same experiment with Bulgarian folk music :)

[@musicbyshadofox]

emme is like if jazz and future riddim had a child

[@tualonsousecret]

6:56 That should probably piss off any math teacher.

[@navdeepsengh]

Connor, I summon you bro for us dubstep noobs!

[@linuslauterbach2975]

Can you make a video about that nested metric modulation part?

[@maurobilotti]

I think that Sonar - "Waves And Particles" is a complex one.

[@NoGate]

For a 17-18yo, Phonon is god damnt smart.

[@JOHNNY-LEG]

Hey Shawn if you will .... could you figure out the time signature for the Eddie Jobson tune “ Who my Friends?”

[@AmrddH]

*flashbacks of just barely passing math class*

[@onesyphorus]

I was not... wow you guys... damn...

[@SamuelHopeOfficial]

My brain hurts so much now.... 🤯

[@piguyn]

Alright, i'm confused. Hopefully someone here can help me out with this. At the end, with the metric modulations, I think I get what is being said, but I don't quite understand how a 30th note becoming the new 16th note would work. To me, it seems like the music would almost double in speed. I decided to try two 30th notes, or one 15th note, becoming the new 16th note, which means, if you're writing it like Shawn did (the tempo change and metric conversion at 9:43), the new tempo would be 140 * 15 / 16 = 131.25. However, when I played a metronome to it, it wasn't. After TWO metric modulations, the tempo was 131.25, but after one, it was 135.554417..., which is 140 * sqrt(15) / sqrt(16). When I saw this, I decided to come to the comments for help, because I genuinely have no idea how to interpret an irrational metric modulation. Am I missing something (probably)? Is the video wrong (probably not)? Is phonon a wizard (yes)?

[@TehEpicAsian715]

8:22 He says that he is modulating to 3 notes evenly spaced in 2 quintuplets(20th notes), so Shawn explained it pretty rationally as for every 2 "20th" notes, there are now 3 evenly spaced nested tuplets; which would mean that for every 20 "20th" notes, there is 30 new nested tuplets, grouped in 3's for every 2 "20th notes". (Hence, "30th notes"). How that becomes the new pulse in relation to the old tempo is simply that (old 30th note) = (new 16th note), which would then mean that for the tempo, the new "quarter note" would be four of the old "30th notes" that are becoming the new "16th notes". So the old 16th note increased in tempo by a factor of 30/16, or 15/8, or 1.875x faster. (Assuming old tempo is 140bpm, 140 × 1.875 = 262.5bpm for the new quarter note) 😵🙃😣😅😬

[@OnEWisE]

I love you phonon, but the background made me realize you are the human spongeybubble

[@NicolasPL_]

WOAHHHH

[@Faulheit]

math rock af

[@kirjian]

free melee

[@Faulheit]

@@kirjian free melee

[@AidanMmusic96]

Zappa af too!

[@theartsyfarmer3748]

And my brain is officially dead

[@kseebees94]

cover it !!!

[@robertfox4114]

Shawn thinks smart while Phonon thinks big

[@MandrakeGuy]

just the way phonon says "17..... p o in t s e v en f ive ov ER TEn-" and then just loses it is just too funny